Develop Bugs

HD7 or MyTouch?

I'm on T-Mobile USA and these two devices are both coming out next month. I've had (and loved) Android since the HTC Magic came out last year. I love the MyTouch for it's FFC and the newest gen procs. However, I'm pretty drawn to the HD7 for it's new OS and large SLCD, however disappointed in lack of FFC (regardless of how little I would realistically use it), and it's first gen procs. It's got the same "guts" as my N1, but it's runs so well from the demos I've seen this week.
Anyone else out there with the same dilemma? Which is better?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

sort of, it has the adreno 205 gpu on it.

predator290 said:
sort of, it has the adreno 205 gpu on it.
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I know the myTouch has it. Are you referring to the HD7? Because if you are and it's true, I think I found my next phone
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

hmarcus said:
I'm on T-Mobile USA and these two devices are both coming out next month. I've had (and loved) Android since the HTC Magic came out last year. I love the MyTouch for it's FFC and the newest gen procs. However, I'm pretty drawn to the HD7 for it's new OS and large SLCD, however disappointed in lack of FFC (regardless of how little I would realistically use it), and it's first gen procs. It's got the same "guts" as my N1, but it's runs so well from the demos I've seen this week.
Anyone else out there with the same dilemma? Which is better?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I am in the same boat as you. I have a nexus one and have loved it, but I am really liking WP7 so far. I believe that with such high minimum specs, the OS will see some nice apps and games in the near future.
I am about 90% sure that I am going to switch, I just have to decide between the HD7 and the Dell pro slide phone.

according to a couple sources the hd7 uses the msm8250 which has the adreno 205 gpu on it. same one as the g2.

diablos991 said:
I am in the same boat as you. I have a nexus one and have loved it, but I am really liking WP7 so far. I believe that with such high minimum specs, the OS will see some nice apps and games in the near future.
I am about 90% sure that I am going to switch, I just have to decide between the HD7 and the Dell pro slide phone.
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Click to collapse
Ya the XBL game demos were nice. This and the Zune integration is what draws me to the platform. Since I have an N1 now I haven't been too concerned about updates, however MS will be starting on top of all that is great.
As far as the Dell; I love everything about it especially the gorilla glass, it's just that KB doesn't look like it's worth the added weight and thickness to the phone. However I saw a sign of a FFC on the Dell unbranded VP so that could be interesting.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

There are alot of information flying about.
Someone contacted HTC asking what processor, and was told the MSM processor, though, Microsofts webpage states QSD8250.
Someone else contacted HTC about the screen, and was told it had a standard TFT screen (Slashgear also states this).
At the end of the day, whether or not the myTouch will have a superior CPU doesn't matter by the fact that it runs android, games are written to be compatible with low end android sets, meaning if the myTouch had a tegra, games would still look crap.
The Galaxy S is a good example. It's GPU pushes about 80million triangles per sec, compare this with iPhone4's 28million.... now show me ANY game on Android that looks better than that on iOS? And the thing is I highly doubt there are much, if any, games on iOS that use half of its power. (Epic citadel and an upcoming iOS game called Aralon shows off what the 3GS/iPhone4/iPad can do. Not sure how much triangles/poylgons its pushing tho).
The Adreno200 pushes about 22million, which isn't a big difference compared with the iPhone, so games would be comparable.
There is a rumour that Android 3.0 will bring in minimum hardware requirements to reduce fragmentation, we'll see.

Cruzer1 said:
There are alot of information flying about.
Someone contacted HTC asking what processor, and was told the MSM processor, though, Microsofts webpage states QSD8250.
Someone else contacted HTC about the screen, and was told it had a standard TFT screen (Slashgear also states this).
At the end of the day, whether or not the myTouch will have a superior CPU doesn't matter by the fact that it runs android, games are written to be compatible with low end android sets, meaning if the myTouch had a tegra, games would still look crap.
The Galaxy S is a good example. It's GPU pushes about 80million triangles per sec, compare this with iPhone4's 28million.... now show me ANY game on Android that looks better than that on iOS? And the thing is I highly doubt there are much, if any, games on iOS that use half of its power. (Epic citadel and an upcoming iOS game called Aralon shows off what the 3GS/iPhone4/iPad can do. Not sure how much triangles/poylgons its pushing tho).
The Adreno200 pushes about 22million, which isn't a big difference compared with the iPhone, so games would be comparable.
There is a rumour that Android 3.0 will bring in minimum hardware requirements to reduce fragmentation, we'll see.
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Click to collapse
Very true, while I like to think of myself as an HTC/Android fanboy, however I always have to lend Android its faults. Gaming and media are huge and Android more or less fails in these areas. Games are horrid, though Angry Birds is always fun. Games just don't look finished or just look like the crappy 2005 Java versions on like a Moto RAZR. In fact, looking at my apps on my N1, almost all of them are apps just to make my phone run smoother or look better ie setCPU, LCD density changer, ASTRO, Ti Backup etc. That's not to say I don't like games, it's just that there's not too great of a collection when you compare to iOS or the upcoming games for WP7.
And if the HD7 has the G2's proc and an SLCD screen like the Desire HD, it will be even more amazing in my eyes. All I'd want is HSPA+, however, that part is MS's fault.

hmarcus said:
Ya the XBL game demos were nice. This and the Zune integration is what draws me to the platform. Since I have an N1 now I haven't been too concerned about updates, however MS will be starting on top of all that is great.
As far as the Dell; I love everything about it especially the gorilla glass, it's just that KB doesn't look like it's worth the added weight and thickness to the phone. However I saw a sign of a FFC on the Dell unbranded VP so that could be interesting.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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Click to collapse
The only concerns I have with the dell is the keyboard quality and thickness. I would have to hold the unit and play around with it first. I really hope that the Hd7 has the updated processor, but I really doubt it will.
All will be revealed soon though.

Same issue with me, I have loved Android for a while now, however WP7 looks so attractive, HSPA+ is not an issue because:
1. My area doesn't have HSPA+
2. T-Mobile states that all devices running standard 3g will also notice a significant improvement to their speeds as well, which is great as well
Really I made up my mind on the HD7, I saw the apps on the zune market and a lot of em weren't that great, however I know I have to wait... I see though that the WP7 marketplace has increased in apps, so I think I might just get the HD7, or try both devices.

I would go with the HD7. Try something new and the games are WP7 are fantastic.
It definitely has its shortcomings, but the most important ones are coming.

Why Windows Phone 7 doesn't desperately need more powerful devices this year

I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
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Discuss...

Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.

As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry

I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...

I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/

The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS

I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.

They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.

Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
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The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.

Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.

fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.

N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
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Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?

Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
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Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.

Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.

N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
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I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?

vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
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Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Click to collapse
Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.

vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Click to collapse
this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.

It's not the size of the hardware, it's how you use it.

I've seen this argument now 100 times over that you should not consider WP7 or have anything to do with WP7 due entirely to the fact that the hardware is 'last-gen.' Well, I'm standing in the store with my DVP along-side an Atrix and I've been doing some similar and even the same apps and games between the two and the DVP seems to be doing much, much, better. Of course the UI on the DVP is 1000 times smoother regardless of hardware but that's a given due to the lack of a hardware accelerated UI on android. The iphone is smoother in some of the apps due to microsoft's stupid 30 fps... thing but the OS on the DVP is even smoother than the iphone. I have to give the iphone credit though due to it's underclocked nature it's barely beaten by WP7 in terms of UI and smokes WP7 in terms of apps. If the UI wasn't so ugly and the hardware was a little less limited it would be the only valid choice in my opinion. So yeah, just the fact that there are dual-core processors on some android devices doesn't mean anything if it can't properly utilize them. I guess that was the whole point I was trying to make.

My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
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You mad bro?
If anything, you should've talked about the fact that it has nothing to do with dual-cores in general but due to the fact that the Atrix is a mass of poor coding.
You could've also stated that dual cores generally make the phone use less power and be more efficient leading to better battery life.
Instead, I have to ask, what the hell can a RAZR do faster?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
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Hardware acceleration is there, however the UI is not GPU accelerated which is why android is generally laggy. I've done my research. I'm aware of what dual-cores do but it's supposed to make it faster as a big part and hey... it's not much faster due to the UI itself. I can't even imagine how powerful an iDevice or a WP7 device would be with that under the hood but the only thing that's been selling android for awhile is that their hardware is bigger and badder.

No, I was attempting a joke. Failed huh?
I could've mentioned a lot of stuff.

yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.

z33dev33l said:
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
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Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.

orangekid said:
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
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Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.

z33dev33l said:
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
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matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.

orangekid said:
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
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To be perfectly honest I haven't been particularly impressed with HTC's WP7 devices... they're slow compared to the other OEMs and choppy... I hate using the HD7 after using the DVP for a few hours. Internally they're pretty much the same and I don't know what the difference is but HTC's general lack of quality shows.

WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.

ErikWithNoC said:
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
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Certainly not in the iphone ports but in a number of the apps built exclusively for WP7it's apparent. I just wish they'd stop being a "We have that too" group instead of innovating.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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way to compare last year's phones to those coming out later this year (rumor is a fall release).
hell, the DS7 has a dualcore processor, does that make it a top tablet?

^ for the price it does. Mine is super fast and smooth.

Well, there aren't many tablets out right now, but I wouldn't say it's tops.
It has a low res screen which really helps it perform better, compared to other tablets and the only other tablet that was out at the time (Galaxy Tab, I'm speaking Google-endorsed tablets) had phone specs with a large screen...
WP7 would have benefitted from using a better SoC at launch because phones are sold mostly on 2 year contracts and, well, a year after release there will be tons of polished Dual Core phones. Also, since all WP7 devices are supposed to get updates future proofing them at least somewhat would have been good for the platform as a whole, and customers obviously.
It will be interesting to see how many updates these launch phones recieve after Mango, IMO.

I think dual core is not a big deal. A well managed single core processor is more than enough for a phone... unless you want to run two processor intensive apps. But if you think about it, do you ever run such apps simultaneously? All modern phone OS put an app in hibernation when you switch to some other processor intensive app.
There have been a few different points or comparisons made in this thread. Here are my 2 cents on it.
iPad2 performs so much better than iPad... the majority of the improvement comes from a very good GPU. Apple is very good at using the GPU and thus the difference is obvious. Nevertheless, tablets are very likely to be used to do processor intensive tasks simultaneously. Thus dual core can be utilized to its potential.
The barrage of android phones with dual core.... google's flagship device, Nexus S is single core. Google is going to stay with it for some time. I have been using Nexus One for some time now and I have not come across any instance where I was bogged down because I was running too many simultaneous apps. Sometimes a processor intensive app alone can slow me down, but that is due to android not being able to use my GPU to its full extent.
Thus, I agree with OP. The experience is what matters. Phone is not a PC where comparison can be made by merely comparing the hardware specifications. I think chassis 1 of Windows Phone 7 will get updates for at least 2 more years. Nevertheless, we should be seeing dual core windows phone 7 in early 2012.

Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I'm quite aware of this however speed is not entirely out of the equation. It's not like it's doing any huge favors still as smartphone batteries barely sustain the smartphone and it will likely be that way til we get those new solar-recharging things on the screen.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I agree with you. Dual core brings better power management. I did not sleep through the PC evolution. However, the discussion in these thread repeatedly pointed out advantage of speed. I begged to differ and laid out my arguments.
Nevertheless, I reiterate that unless you have two processor intensive activities running in parallel, you will not see any advantage (including power consumption) of multiple cores. My point is that you hardly do that on a phone.
PS: "apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt" has nothing to do with multiple cores. It's sand-boxing. Only Unix based systems can do that effectively. Windows has been getting better but the kernel does not support all the features.

Why Windows Phones Are the Most Exciting Handsets at CES

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/01/windows-phones-ces-2012/

Best of CES Awards 2012 -> Nokia Lumia 900
http://ces.cnet.com/best-of-ces/?tag=mncol
Live from CES 2012: Windows Phone $100 Challenge 7
http://youtu.be/PeU7FW18Izc

The intel phone demo was pretty cool but those were just concepts.
Lumia and titan2 were the only phones that were ready to ship. The rest were either concepts or not being released till Q2 2012.
Personally - I wasn't too impressed with either windows phone (not enough improvement for me to upgrade from my 1st gen wp). I'm hoping Microsoft has something interesting at MWC because i know android is going to have quad core 720p resolution phones and i might not want to stick with windows phone with it's single core WGA resolution.

Both phones are really nice so deciding will be hard. Even from a technical stand point they only slightly differ one has a .1 Ghz fast CPU the other has gorilla glass. I think it primarily comes down to what you need. A big screen with a nice camera or a small phone that is still just as powerful, but not overly powerful.

karan1203 said:
The intel phone demo was pretty cool but those were just concepts.
Lumia and titan2 were the only phones that were ready to ship. The rest were either concepts or not being released till Q2 2012.
Personally - I wasn't too impressed with either windows phone (not enough improvement for me to upgrade from my 1st gen wp). I'm hoping Microsoft has something interesting at MWC because i know android is going to have quad core 720p resolution phones and i might not want to stick with windows phone with it's single core WGA resolution.
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Then leave. Nothing keeps you here. As someone who typing this on a stock GN? I'm about to leap back to WP when the 900 drops. Just because something has 4 cores doesn't mean it's actually going to use those four cores. Just because it's got a 720 screen doesn't matter if the OS or widgets or icons aren't optimized for it. I'll take something that just works over the bigger better stronger faster everyday of every week.

The only good phone at CES was the Lumia 900. Everything else was junk really.
Sent from my SGH-I897

bmstrong said:
Then leave. Nothing keeps you here. As someone who typing this on a stock GN? I'm about to leap back to WP when the 900 drops. Just because something has 4 cores doesn't mean it's actually going to use those four cores. Just because it's got a 720 screen doesn't matter if the OS or widgets or icons aren't optimized for it. I'll take something that just works over the bigger better stronger faster everyday of every week.
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You don't know what you're talking about. 720p display has nothing to do with the software. Please read up on how displays work.

Goodbye windows phone?

first of all, I think WP7 OS is great and i have my omnia 7 for about 18months now, so im in a great position to say what i think of it.
for the first time in 18 months, im starting too look at the Android OS. why?
WP7 Hardware STILL dosnt cut it and there not a single true wp7 high end device out there.
examples,
the aging low res
low memory (especially if you live in the UK 8 gb phones really?)
poor GPU (60 fps is the minimum standard and wp7 games seem to be struggling to hit 30 fps. only the games with poor graphics run at 60fps on wp7. its embarrasing. i wouldnt show my android /iphone owning friends these games on my phone.
single core - sure the actual OS generally is nice and smooth ( although mine has definately slowed down recently maybe as im running out of memory?) however try opening PDF files they slow right down and take an age to open
Skydrive, i use skydrive all the time, i log on today and now instead of my usual 25GB i see i now only have 7GB ? whats going on here, skydrive was the only thing keeping my phone running over since i have only 8, ( actually 7GB of storage on my phone........
like i said at the start, the OS it self is really great, i just wish i could have the OS on a device as powerful as the "old"Samsung galaxy s2 ( I say old but its still WAY more powerful than WP7 devices.) but the hardware is really letting WP7 Down... no wonder sales have been rubbish

Read this article:
http://wmpoweruser.com/skydrive-for-windows-now-available-to-download-features-as-promised/
It will give you a link to 'upgrade' your SkyDrive storage back to 25GB. I just did this yesterday for an account, so it should still be working. It also has a link for the new SkyDrive Windows 7 program, which makes SD now on par with DropBox (Better, actually since it now keeps the phone in sync with folders on the computer).

thanks for that .......should keep me ticking over until my contract ends. by then i expect ( more like hope actually) that there will be at least 1 wp7 htc device in 6 months?

davidebanks said:
thanks for that .......should keep me ticking over until my contract ends. by then i expect ( more like hope actually) that there will be at least 1 wp7 htc device in 6 months?
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I hope they make something like the hardware used for the ONE S.
I was helping my friend get her very first ever smart phone (Lumia 710) yesterday. We were at Car Toys. The sales guy went to the back to get the ONE S to show it off. Granted, I'm in no way passionate about Android, but it is one sexy piece of hardware. Just the right thickness, but a great sturdiness and weight to it. I was really impressed with its feel. Were there no Nokia, I'd go w/ HTC. Samsung's all feel like plastic graham crackers to me.

Single core and all those things, do you really need it or just to say Hey I have dual cores. For me, I don't think dual core is needed.
About the GPU, yes I think the game graphics can be improved by a lot seeing those FPS games on iphone.

To the OP, glad that you have realised and awake about the drawbacks...
Have been using my mozart for 13months++, bought the HTC one X last month,honestly my 1st android device. It is great, don't listen to all those lagging&force close BS...give it a try...no regret on one X...
lol...smoked by WP7???who cares?i can play cut the rope: experiment,angry bird space, highlighting and add notes to my PDF lecture slides(this is the crucial one), cheaper apps and etc....
now my mozart is collecting dusk and work as alarm clock[this is where WP7 excel at (easy task)]

davidebanks said:
like i said at the start, the OS it self is really great, i just wish i could have the OS on a device as powerful as the "old"Samsung galaxy s2 ( I say old but its still WAY more powerful than WP7 devices.) but the hardware is really letting WP7 Down... no wonder sales have been rubbish
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If you like the experience of Windows Phone but want more modern hardware, Windows Phone 8 might be worth looking at.
It will be based on the NT kernel and will support more powerful CPU / GPUs (including multi-core CPUs) and higher screen resolutions.
There are plenty of other threads discussing WP8 (including timing) if you want more information. I'd expect it to be out within 6 months, assuming you're on a 2 year contract.

OP, your post is useless as all your other 232 posts. Hope to never see you again in WP7/Win8 forums (you may also pick up a few andro-stupid-trolls with)

Get a phone to suit your needs end of line.

I'm also leaving windows phone for android.
I've been a huge windows phone supporter (went from windows mobile to windows phone) and i still think metro is the greatest thing on any phone. But i'm tired of not having key features that i find essential for any phone. I mean common, no way to turn off auto rotation? No way to view notifications other than live tiles? No way to lower volume without lowering ring volume? No way to turn off 3G (if you had AT&T in NYC you'd understand why)
These are things i consider very very basic and should be implemented.
I really don't care about the apps. That's not why i'm switching. I'm switching because i have a problem with the OS not having basic functionality.

Hi guys, lets try to keep the forum focused in DEVELOPMENT, in this section for WP7. Thread closed.