Related
All,
I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
C0mbe
"In a perfect world..."
github said:
"In a perfect world..."
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This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
Rule with an Iron Fist!!!
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here @XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.
C0mbe said:
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
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I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
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Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
github said:
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.
It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
github said:
At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
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No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
github said:
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
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Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
github said:
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
TheRomMistress said:
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
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That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
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What he said
Thanks. I actually moved this into it's own post/question, as it is kind of offtopic from what OP was discussing.
This is in reference to the NilsP/Joelz petition threads that were closed by willverduzco, and the resulting lashing that he posted here. While there were a VERY small minority of posts that might have crossed a line of respect, an overwhelming number of the posts in there were simply people showing support for the developers that deserve that recognition.
I find it disturbing that the moderation team can't seem to take some criticism here. This is a community, and if the mod/admin team can't at least listen to the members of that community without mocking them or belittling them as was done in this thread, then this place is truly lost. Which is sad because it was (and in a lot of regards still is) a great place for android users/devs to get together.
I'm sure this thread will too be locked, and I'll take my whipping of the cat-o-nine-tails for daring to challenge the overlords, but this is really a sad state of affairs.
"iron fist" lol.
yeah, i'm sure this will be locked too.
badogg said:
This is in reference to the NilsP/Joelz petition threads that were closed by willverduzco, and the resulting lashing that he posted here. While there were a VERY small minority of posts that might have crossed a line of respect, an overwhelming number of the posts in there were simply people showing support for the developers that deserve that recognition.
I find it disturbing that the moderation team can't seem to take some criticism here. This is a community, and if the mod/admin team can't at least listen to the members of that community without mocking them or belittling them as was done in this thread, then this place is truly lost. Which is sad because it was (and in a lot of regards still is) a great place for android users/devs to get together.
I'm sure this thread will too be locked, and I'll take my whipping of the cat-o-nine-tails for daring to challenge the overlords, but this is really a sad state of affairs.
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i understand you are upset that nilsp did not get his badge for "reconized developer" and im not trying to say he does not deserve it (because is one of the great devs still on here).
but the way you decided to handle it was not good. posting it in the development thread to get it seen more is not the way to go. if you feel like he deserves the badge, then voice your opinion by pming Developer Committee please dont try to start a war on here. it will only end badly. we are already have enough wrong posting going on by people mistaking this as an INC 2 thread. please dont add to it.
if you dont like the rules then go to a different site. there are some of us on here that still want to keep order and help others and not make this a flame site.
*i am ready to be flamed now*
Dudes he gave us a proper way to appeal, which I personally didn't know about. Its not as epic as "challenging overlords", they just want us to follow the rules.
This "iron fist" thing has been talked about for weeks. There was a huge article on it in the portal about the sense of entitlement, people thinking for some reason that donations = labor contracts, the devs being frustrated by users *****ing, among other things. The easiest way for them to circumvent it is to have a zero tolerance policy, so they're not exactly gonna be nice about a whole lot right now. My advice to yall is to just let it go and be cool.
They run this place, we don't, period. Lets just enjoy what it does for our gadgets guys... They obviously are going through a rough time, the least we can do is make it easy on them.
Everyone needs to remember this is only a website... mods I respect you but seriously IT'S A WEBSITE... I'm 20 and have more sense than most people on here this is all childlike and uncalled for... this is a community not a hierarchy...
sent from my phone using ALL CAPS RAGE
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
wildstang83 said:
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
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I wasn't all bent until I read their responses. That is where I had a problem. The way that they dealt with this was disconcerting. All we wanted to do was to show some support for a couple of peeps, and if we did it wrong then educate us without being jerks about it.
Your thread is gone.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
lol stang, i think they deleted your thread.
it's the "i'm taking my ball and going home!" mentality all over again here at XDA.
wildstang83 said:
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
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3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
How dare you abuse the authority they gave you. Lol
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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*READS RULES*
Ok, so that makes sense for the one that was in the development forum, but what about the petition thread? I don't see anywhere in those rules that say that we aren't allowed to show support for another member/dev or question the decisions of the mods.
Sure there was probably a couple of members that might have pushed it a little far, but I don't think any of it was really over the line (but admittedly I didn't read every single post and I'm not going to) - just voicing displeasure about it, and showing support.
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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But making jokes and clowning is acceptable, as long as you're a mod, right? Go read the thread. They were laughing and clowning at the first 2 guys that posted about this. Then I called them out on it and all of a sudden they're serious about it. Then i get this comment from some idiot...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276306&page=239
WHERE'S THE IRON FIST AT? I'll take my ban as long as this dude does too...
Zeus... God of Awesome!
wildstang83 said:
Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
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im all for keeping the devs here, but posting a flame thread is not the way. (im also not stopping you from voicing you opinion if you do it the correct way.) it just adds fuel to the fire. that's something we don't need.
"If they disagree with a moderator's actions, users CAN complain (not in the forums, only via Private Message). We are putting systems in place to ensure that mods ask for advice from the team in complex situations. Senior mods and administrators will do everything we can to ensure that moderators wield their power for good, not evil. Fair but firm. Firm but fair. It's a balance we strive for daily, and this is a responsibility we all take seriously."
if you feel that he was wronged the do the right thing by pming the mods or the committee. then threatening the mods after you thread was closed is still not the way to get your voice out.
(thank you by the way for serving our country.)
cvbcbcmv said:
As a moderator of another forum. I have some experience with this stuff. It doesn't have nearly 4,000,000 members, but it has almost 30,000, it's a big chunk. About 6 moderators to handle it, and really only 2 keep up with it (me being one of them), the others log on about once a month. First of all, I don't like closing threads, it's just ruining freedom of speech, which is kind of the whole point of a forum, if I have to I'll edit every single post, but I like to let people speak their mind. I also never mention anything somebody did, even if a name isn't mentioned, anything someone in particular did. In the mods post he said about the member who is threatening to leave, well, I'll admit it, that was me, and anyone could have found that out. BTW, I'm not the first one to do that. I would never do that to one of my members. I hope this doesn't get edited or removed. I'm not whining, I'm just saying my opinion. Nothing wrong, nothing bad. Just saying it. Also, I never come back at my members in a mean or insulting way unless they come at me on a personal level. Not a moderating job level, but an actual personal level. I think it's wrong to go to your members and tell them they are just whiny little crybabies who need to grow up.
Sincerely,
cvbcbcmv
P.S I'm not complaining, I wouldn't fill out a formal complaint, that's not my point of this post. I just want to state my opinion.
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Bravo man. There was a lot of intolerance all around this issue, but I think the moderating really went down the toilet on it.
cvbcbcmv said:
As a moderator of another forum. I have some experience with this stuff. It doesn't have nearly 4,000,000 members, but it has almost 30,000, it's a big chunk. About 6 moderators to handle it, and really only 2 keep up with it (me being one of them), the others log on about once a month. First of all, I don't like closing threads, it's just ruining freedom of speech, which is kind of the whole point of a forum, if I have to I'll edit every single post, but I like to let people speak their mind. I also never mention anything somebody did, even if a name isn't mentioned, anything someone in particular did. In the mods post he said about the member who is threatening to leave, well, I'll admit it, that was me, and anyone could have found that out. BTW, I'm not the first one to do that. I would never do that to one of my members. I hope this doesn't get edited or removed. I'm not whining, I'm just saying my opinion. Nothing wrong, nothing bad. Just saying it. Also, I never come back at my members in a mean or insulting way unless they come at me on a personal level. Not a moderating job level, but an actual personal level. I think it's wrong to go to your members and tell them they are just whiny little crybabies who need to grow up.
Sincerely,
cvbcbcmv
P.S I'm not complaining, I wouldn't fill out a formal complaint, that's not my point of this post. I just want to state my opinion.
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This is how I moderate too, otherwise things like what's happened here repeat.....and that's bad
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I can see both sides of the argument. Nils is a great dev and should be recognized as a dev. The mods have a site to run andm unfortunatly, there are quite a few immature people that visit these forums and flame away, are disrespectful, and flat out rude. I would like to think that the mods realize that not giving him his dev title after all he has done for the community, was a mistake. I dont know if the will acknowledge that, but it is a mistake. On the other hand, and I have even been guilty at times, there is way too much flaming, rudeness, people demanding of devs, and moronic behavior all over this site, it has become really pathetic. If the mods actual felt that they needed to bring down the hammer, they should have started a long time ago and not let it get as bad as it is. I appreciate this site, but I am also thankful that there are other places I can get quality roms for my phone. Xda just isnt what it used to be when I joined several years ago.
cvbcbcmv said:
yeah, and anything like this has never happened on the forum I moderate, nothing get's passed a disagreement on a statement, and it doesn't come close to a flame war. It's friendly. That's how 2 moderators handle it. The people don't go flaming
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Yeah, and for a mod to put this text when moving a thread is not going to help:
"Moved: I'm incapable of posting or filing an appeal properly, so my thread was moved."
Members are going to cross the line, and honestly act childish at times - sure. But the moderation team shouldn't address that with even more childish behavior.
wildstang83 said:
Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
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First off as a fellow veteran I thank you for your service. However from what I've read about this site it was started in Europe so our American sense of 2nd amendment rites is kind of a mute point. This was and is a site created by devs for devs, us users are just here for the ride without much say in the matter as it isn't a democracy.
This fued some have going with Hacre I think is pointeless. To tell you the truth I think he is some type of enforcer on here. From what I can tell from googling him he's been asked before by mods to respond to posts in the exact same manner he is now. Hasn't anyone noticed not one mod in that main section is from America nor has said anything about Hacre's posts?
I think all the drama here is getting out of hand and its teime to just let it go. Yes I think they should have left the petition threads alone, but the op of the Nils thread asked for it to be locked. Yours I think was a mistake but you pissed someone off by reopening it on your own, maybe should have asked first? In my opinion this has done more harm than good to both Joel and Nils but I guess it wouldn't be xda if it didn't get all blown out of portion in a hurry and quickly go to ****.
Quit censoring the forums. You are a "moderator" not a "censor".
Closing the thread when it was a discussion about developers and moderators on XDA in the "General" section is not right. Just because you as a moderator are tired of reading all the good points about you and your heavy-handed tactics doesn't give you the right to "censor" the forums. You are a "moderator", not a "censor".
When you start censoring posts/threads that you don't agree with, you have gone way beyond your "moderator" duties and are now infringing on any user's rights to speak freely.
-Daryel
Agree, i was just thinking that. Who is the forum experience mod?
wow and I was about to write up a thread calling Jerdog out for exactly as you said, he gives his excuse then closes the thread while it is clearly open and still booming. like "haha I get the last word..."
I agree with you.
IB4L.
Always wanted to do that
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
anyways, so StrongSteve puts something together from many parts, but that is not allowed. We must do it ourselves. Should of just put a guide out there steve
Jerdog, you can call the work StrongSteve whatever you want but when it involves work that most of us could not do ourselves no matter what section he puts it in, I call that development.
If rules that are set up does not call that or allow it as development in the development section, then it is the rules that need changed. As much as the work is appreciated, not many people will go through a 20 page guideline on how to do what he did in the theme section.
ok guys.. I really have to call Jerdog out on this..
He keeps referring to dexopt-wrapper as a "script"
It is a binary or a "tool"
How does such bonified ignorance become a "recognized developer"
??
Thanks again.
Im on jerdogs side on this one
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I'm on Strongsteve's side. We've heard both stories in the previous thread as it wasn't censored, but locked. This thread was made for the sole purpose of flaming Jerdog. It's just not right.
Hopefully, as Jerdog stated, this gets worked out through private discussion between them.
I posted the original Open Letter. This is first chance I have had to look things over since this morning. Not surprised the thread was moved. I'm appalled it was closed. I just sent jerdog a PM asking for an explanation. We'll see what happens.
I cannot for the life of me understand the logic (or lack thereof) behind killing off this ROM, theme, project, discussion.
strongsteve, are you going to put your work up anywhere else. if so, can you let us know.
I am using your ROM and it is best one out there . Much appreciated no matter what the mods say. Thanks
Overstew said:
I'm on Strongsteve's side. We've heard both stories in the previous thread as it wasn't censored, but locked. This thread was made for the sole purpose of flaming Jerdog. It's just not right.
Hopefully, as Jerdog stated, this gets worked out through private discussion between them.
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maybe, but I think trying to keep the previous thread going was more the reason. If the other thread was not locked, discussion would continue there. And IMO writing a book sized defense reply (as Jerdog did) then immediately locking it so details of what he said could not be discussed is censorship. I mean look, someone opens a new thread and you claim it something other than genuine continuation of the first thread, so in effect Jerdog altered the degree of trust and dialogue hence censorship.
Nothing against you as I do understand what you said, just making a point
i would suggest PM'ing the forum admin or the forum experience mod to communicate any issues.
I think locking a thread to prevent further discussion is what peeves people off.
The discussion was a fairly civil discussion of what constitutes a "Themed ROM" and a "Developer ROM". By the definition put forth ALL roms that are in the Development section are "Themed ROMs". Even ptfdmedic pointed out that his ROM by the definition is a "Themed ROM".
This thread is probably going to be locked/closed/moved anyways. If anyone wants to complain to XDA about jerdog, they're welcome to PM the "User Experience Admin" svetius. His profile is here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=2235607
Sprint just offered me today (after 100's of phone calls) to replace my Epic Touch with a different phone because of LOS issues, hopefully whichever phone I decide on will have a healthy dev environment like the Epic Touch has been.
-Daryel
agreed, it appears that any discussion regardless of temperament is not permitted. I would also submit that if I were Strongsteve, i wouldn't exactly be in a PM/discussion/compromise type of mindset either. It appears that there is a total lack of comprehension from the MOD
daryelv said:
I think locking a thread to prevent further discussion is what peeves people off.
The discussion was a fairly civil discussion of what constitutes a "Themed ROM" and a "Developer ROM". By the definition put forth ALL roms that are in the Development section are "Themed ROMs". Even ptfdmedic pointed out that his ROM by the definition is a "Themed ROM".
This thread is probably going to be locked/closed/moved anyways. If anyone wants to complain to XDA about jerdog, they're welcome to PM the "User Experience Admin" svetius. His profile is here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=2235607
Sprint just offered me today (after 100's of phone calls) to replace my Epic Touch with a different phone because of LOS issues, hopefully whichever phone I decide on will have a healthy dev environment like the Epic Touch has been.
-Daryel
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Rootzwiki is where it is..... They appreciate the devs that its why they give devs phones....xda used to be like that they are all about the money .... Sad that its come to this ....
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
xlGmanlx said:
agreed, it appears that any discussion regardless of temperament is not permitted. I would also submit that if I were Strongsteve, i wouldn't exactly be in a PM/discussion/compromise type of mindset either. It appears that there is a total lack of comprehension from the MOD
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Precisely
I would think that we would be encouraging development for this phone and not splitting hairs on it, no matter who is right and who is wrong. I mean he (jerdog) just couldn't just leave it alone? Really? Come on.
i don't fault XDA making money and trying to keep the lights on. Especially when XDA the business is not always aligned with XDA the forums, however clearly this instance clearly is not a conflict of the two. What i don't really agree with is the decision of ONE mod in this forum.
Epix4G said:
Rootzwiki is where it is..... They appreciate the devs that its why they give devs phones....xda used to be like that they are all about the money .... Sad that its come to this ....
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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with that said, if i have to go to Rootzwiki to get Steve's ROM's then thats what i will do
The only way!!!
Either stop coming to this site...aka boycott; Or get other devs to stop supporting this site. Either will result in revenue loss for XDA and make them think about what they are doing.
That's all you can do, once the advertisers pull out, they lose money that I am sure they don't share with developers who are the sole reason we com here in the first place.
Start hitting up all the devs and see if they will move thier work elsewhere, then we go there and XDA will have to acknowledge or fail.
spencer88 said:
I would think that we would be encouraging development for this phone and not splitting hairs on it, no matter who is right and who is wrong. I mean he (jerdog) just couldn't just leave it alone? Really? Come on.
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I wrote the experience mod and said the exact same thing.
Dear Moderators,
Please talk with all devs regarding last Mike's post in thread - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1562603
Below You can find post:
" Just to be clear - my last post was not about users but about competition atmosphere, not sharing, hiding RUUs for even final, release-keys RUUs. If devs are hiding something that is tagged as "final" and "release-keys" and it will be published by htc any day, that means we are in a rats race. I'm against not sharing of "test-keys" software, but hiding "release-keys" one is way too much I can stand. No names here, no offence to anyone, no direct speech to anyone. xda rules allows that behavior so it's legal.
This game is not fair play."
I fully agree with him. Now it's lika RATS RACE
I agree that the hiding of release keys and final builds is unfair. They're from HTC and thus should be available to everyone, allowing the community to grow and for the modding community to prosper. The fact that such items of high importance are hidden from other developers (when they should be available to everyone) is deplorable.
[Off-topic: Still not sure why the thread needed to be closed. Does this mean ARHD is dead on the One X, or is it closed to simply cease discussion within the thread? If ARHD is dead, what's a worthy equivalent?]
Absolutely elmo, it's back to stock for me if Mike stops developing. In fact I've had enough of xda. On the whole it's a helpful community but there is way too much bickering going on, are we not adults here?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
*elmo* said:
Dear Moderators,
Please talk with all devs regarding last Mike's post in thread - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1562603
Below You can find post:
" Just to be clear - my last post was not about users but about competition atmosphere, not sharing, hiding RUUs for even final, release-keys RUUs. If devs are hiding something that is tagged as "final" and "release-keys" and it will be published by htc any day, that means we are in a rats race. I'm against not sharing of "test-keys" software, but hiding "release-keys" one is way too much I can stand. No names here, no offence to anyone, no direct speech to anyone. xda rules allows that behavior so it's legal.
This game is not fair play."
I fully agree with him. Now it's lika RATS RACE
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It's a shame, the community would be nothing without the sharing of files, ideas and knowledge.
But although unfair it is though, the individuals prerogative.
I just feel it would be a shame if everyone acted acting like this as nothing would ever be achieved or at the very least things would get slowed down for all. Who cares who's first? Ultimately we all choose which developers ROMs, MODS, etc etc we end up using anyhow.
Very little to being first in the long run but maybe a little Kudos.
Couldn't agree more with y'all.
Can someone clear up whats going on?
Is mike stopping his development?
Wilks3y said:
Can someone clear up whats going on?
Is mike stopping his development?
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For HOX possibly yes.
I quote...
If one x developement forum will still continue to be like it is now there will be no more arhd for one x. Sorry to say that, i have to face unfair and agressive competition in my real life, not going to waste my nerves in virtual world too
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Plus his ARHD thread has been closed :crying:
All of that work on that thread and good people helping others and some selfish lot out there decide that they want to monopolize something that should be given away readily to help the community!
(Shouldn't be saying this) Want to know who it was that denied Mike the data he needs, so that we can boycott that thread and plead with him to help Mike out)
OniV2 said:
[Off-topic: Still not sure why the thread needed to be closed. Does this mean ARHD is dead on the One X, or is it closed to simply cease discussion within the thread? If ARHD is dead, what's a worthy equivalent?]
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Too bad Mike1986 just leaves all ARHD users behind like this!
He's not reliable to me anymore...This is not a fight to be fought by putting the users in the frontline.
The king is dead. Long live the king! Time to move on.
So, what's the next best thing available if it's a HOX Sense-rom?
I understand his frustration to be honest, although in this case I don't see who he is referring to, not seen the final JB WWE RUU anywhere yet.
The minute it appears on another ROM this thread will be full of demands for a release, with other ROM authors saying their ROM can't be modified for 4 days or so, which I pretty sure isn't enforced?
I do remember a discussion when Mike refused to share something, it was the Sensation time.
Sent from my HTC One X+
yes its true even in Desire HD days mike did play this game as well
and this rats game should be banned from XDA
ill PM mike lets hope his inbox is not flooding
I hope that Mike will com back to Us
Electronic Punk said:
I don't see who he is referring to, not seen the final JB WWE RUU anywhere yet.
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http://t.co/HwsX35G6
I do not blame him, by the way. Who the hell knows what kind of confidentiality obligations he takes upon himself...
I just suggest that people stop whining like kids.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1954878&page=6
This thread also covers this sort of discussion
Also note D.O.C's post
D.O.C said:
XDA-Developers is about development.
Rules are already laid down to protect the integrity of our forums, with the sole objective so that development persist, no matter of individual or collective choices.
If a user decides to share a RUU, fine, if not, fine again, and here is the reason why: fortunately development does not depend on RUUs, it depends on sources, and, obviously, developers to work with them. Sources are out there published under a licence that allows anyone to modify them and contribute to them in order to achieve a better product, reason why kernel sources have to be posted everytime you decide to share your custom kernel. Android is open source, reason why xda has boosted over the last few years.
HTC ROMs are not intended to be developed over them (ask their lawyers, heck, ask developers around what they find easier, to compile and modify android sources, or stock firmwares).
Now, development does not depend upon sharing. Sure, sharing is a great thing, it speeds up development and makes it greater, but, it does not depend on it. That is why sharing in our forums is a private choice.
XDA delopers started with a group of individuals that wanted to "tweak and modify" their stock roms (some developers I can see around here, and I am glad they are still around). It was a time of sharing and development, and there werent as many "issues" with this kind of environment back then. We all miss those times, but it is time we let go, we gotta move on and adapt to our current circumstances and stop trying to go backwards .....in short, develop a new mentality towards how we accept and deal with our current users. Afterall, we are in a development forum right?
RUUs are propietary to HTC, if they get "leaked" into our forums, well, thanks to the leaker, but under no cirmcunstance XDA will allow anyone to be "forced" to do something that they cannot/want to do. Not to HTC or any user for that matter. We do not ask anyone to share anything. If a user decides to share, we all win, if he doesnt decide to share, well, that is his choice, but we (by we I reffer to us as a community) do not depend upon anyone to continue what this forum is about, which is and will always be, development.
Hope the above does not cause any confusion that we (or I) support nonsharing but on the contrary, sharing stuff makes development greater and more fun, but we do know that development does not depend on it
Have fun!, but please try to stay within our forum rules, since the nature of this subject I can foresee someone getting angry XD
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The post above covers this sort of thing nicely!
I dont really have a personal opinion on the matter but think the above stuff covers it well
hamdir said:
yes its true even in Desire HD days mike did play this game as well
and this rats game should be banned from XDA
ill PM mike lets hope his inbox is not flooding
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I also sent PM to Mike
uqadwe said:
I do remember a discussion when Mike refused to share something, it was the Sensation time.
Sent from my HTC One X+
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I did but I changed my mind some time ago already. People do mistakes, only cows don't change their minds.
Also nobody here have 3.14.401.20 RUU.
well im taking my ball and im going home,
if people don't want to share that's up to them, XDA is about sharing knowledge, sharing the ability to build your own roms and such. Too many people are expecting others to do the work for them and this is NOT what XDA is about.
since when was XDA about the final product?
i think some members need to learn a bit before they speak! don't expect others to build your perfect rom for you.
XDA has become a playground full of children who want things done for them, ive not only watched the quality of members go down hill since ive been here but some moderators as well sadly.
xda is no longer a source of information and like minded people it's now all about.. " I WANT I WANT I WANT"
mike1986. said:
I did but I changed my mind some time ago already. People do mistakes, only cows don't change their minds.
Also nobody here have 3.14.401.20 RUU.
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Mike don't give up on us !
Name and shame the arsehole !!!
Does this include your toolkit also?
Or just ROM Development?!
mike1986. said:
I did but I changed my mind some time ago already. People do mistakes, only cows don't change their minds.
Also nobody here have 3.14.401.20 RUU.
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mike bro, please check my PM
Should we communicate new ideas and attempts via PMS or email? Did someone have an open thread elsewhere on xda? I check multiple times daily and have been attempting to learn and contribute. .since I am a noob I am typically quiet but I am down to test fur people if need be.
Dude dont even try it , leave it alone , to many emotional people in xda
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using XDA Free mobile app
GabrielOspina said:
Dude dont even try it , leave it alone , to many emotional people in xda
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using XDA Free mobile app
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This is a legitimate question for the q/a forum...if they choose to lock it that is their prerogative. I have never made any trouble on this site...there is little reason. This post is not meantt to be inflammatory, I just genuinely want to know if XDAS part in our quest for root is over or not...I am not breaking any forum rules in posting this.
So do people still plan to work on the note 4 using this forum or is there somewhere else I should be focusing my attention to?
nygrik said:
Should we communicate new ideas and attempts via PMS or email? Did someone have an open thread elsewhere on xda? I check multiple times daily and have been attempting to learn and contribute. .since I am a noob I am typically quiet but I am down to test fur people if need be.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=59056078&postcount=4
Because of the nonsense that goes on in root threads, no developer in their right mind will post any efforts in one of the threads in General. This is why developers have taken their efforts off of XDA and in private chats...and now no one learns anything here.
And no, you are not breaking rules by asking but you opened a thread where all the non-helping people from the other threads will have a place to go. So I am sure they will be quite proud to post something here to get this locked too.
Now Root will never be achieved, sadly.
ChefAnt said:
Now Root will never be achieved, sadly.
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Yes. Because closing a thread full of people with nothing better to do than post "are we there yet" and then start flaming each other will totally stop all work on root. Smh....I guess you didn't even bother to read my post above.
Wasnt their a bunch of devs in that thread finding exploits ??? Guess they are pming
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using XDA Free mobile app
GabrielOspina said:
Wasnt their a bunch of devs in that thread finding exploits ??? Guess they are pming
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using XDA Free mobile app
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As Kenny stated here. This is the best course to take. We know most of you guys think we are being jerks, but the bottom line is that thread is/was and would continue to be out of hand. Just because that thread is locked for now, does not mean devs are going to stop collaborating and find a method.
KennyG123 said:
Yes. Because closing a thread full of people with nothing better to do than post "are we there yet" and then start flaming each other will totally stop all work on root. Smh....I guess you didn't even bother to read my post above.
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Whoa, excuse me . I read your post and found no value in it. I merely made a statement (not even remotely regarding your profound post.) We paid a substantial amount of money for this phone. I also paid for the stupid XDA premium app to support the XDA community. I also have contributed much money to many devs in the past for previous phones I've owned. I believe I have a right to be kept in the know. Whether the know is what exploit developers are using to find root or useless banter from idiotic foreigners and newbs who have no idea what is going on is completely regardless. It's a public forum. The thread was posted in the general section. There was no warning in the title that it was a "Dev thread only." It wasn't just the idiots who were posting dumb comments, it was a lot of the ATT Note 4 Community that would post 4-5 replies after the "are we there yet?" posts that got the thread shut down. I enjoyed the thread, I learned a lot about exploits that I wouldn't have ever thought to research on my own. It was purely entertainment for me and it was taken away because the moderation can never handle anything properly.
Bridge is closed, troll. Go shake your head somewhere else. Nomsayin?
ChefAnt said:
Whoa, excuse me . I read your post and found no value in it. I merely made a statement (not even remotely regarding your profound post.) We paid a substantial amount of money for this phone. I also paid for the stupid XDA premium app to support the XDA community. I also have contributed much money to many devs in the past for previous phones I've owned. I believe I have a right to be kept in the know. Whether the know is what exploit developers are using to find root or useless banter from idiotic foreigners and newbs who have no idea what is going on is completely regardless. It's a public forum. The thread was posted in the general section. There was no warning in the title that it was a "Dev thread only." It wasn't just the idiots who were posting dumb comments, it was a lot of the ATT Note 4 Community that would post 4-5 replies after the "are we there yet?" posts that got the thread shut down. I enjoyed the thread, I learned a lot about exploits that I wouldn't have ever thought to research on my own. It was purely entertainment for me and it was taken away because the moderation can never handle anything properly.
Bridge is closed, troll. Go shake your head somewhere else. Nomsayin?
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First off as Senior Moderator and Team Leader of this section, I AM NO TROLL! You certainly failed to comprehend my post and have some reading comprehension problems. YOUR post had absolutely no value and made no sense that a closed troll filled thread would stop you from getting root! Wow...just wow.
Now if you had read my post correctly I stated there IS an area for developers ONLY where people can see what is going on and not disturb the developers with useless posts like "Now we will never get root" or "Are we there yet". Try reading the original post a few times...then before you respond read it again. Feel free to take this to PM with me if you have any more criticisms of the avenues presented on this PRIVATE membership only development forum.
Cheers
KennyG123
Senior Moderator
KennyG123 said:
First off as Senior Moderator and Team Leader of this section, I AM NO TROLL! You certainly failed to comprehend my post and have some reading comprehension problems. YOUR post had absolutely no value and made no sense that a closed troll filled thread would stop you from getting root! Wow...just wow.
Now if you had read my post correctly I stated there IS an area for developers ONLY where people can see what is going on and not disturb the developers with useless posts like "Now we will never get root" or "Are we there yet". Try reading the original post a few times...then before you respond read it again. Feel free to take this to PM with me if you have any more criticisms of the avenues presented on this PRIVATE membership only development forum.
Cheers
KennyG123
Senior Moderator
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Private?! OK buddy. I could have 4 accounts to this "private" forum in 5 mins. You guys give any moron a membership. You guys even made it easier for morons to join by making them watch a video rather than actually reading the rules before signing up. This is dumb. I have lost interest in all doings on this forum. Thanks for the boost of support from the Mod team. Did you have to watch a video before becoming a mod? Cheers.
ChefAnt said:
Private?! OK buddy. I could have 4 accounts to this "private" forum in 5 mins. You guys give any moron a membership. You guys even made it easier for morons to join by making them watch a video rather than actually reading the rules before signing up. This is dumb. I have lost interest in all doings on this forum. Thanks for the boost of support from the Mod team. Did you have to watch a video before becoming a mod? Cheers.
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Actually yes we do. And please read those rules you so reverently talked about. Having more than one account is a rule violation.
ChefAnt said:
Private?! OK buddy. I could have 4 accounts to this "private" forum in 5 mins. You guys give any moron a membership. You guys even made it easier for morons to join by making them watch a video rather than actually reading the rules before signing up. This is dumb. I have lost interest in all doings on this forum. Thanks for the boost of support from the Mod team. Did you have to watch a video before becoming a mod? Cheers.
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Man I usually don't post but **** I am so glad your gone. Best wishes
Wow...well you were right about having a place for people to cry...I was genuinely looking for a place to go keep learning and hopefully obtaining root...if you want to stop and close this thread I approve. No need for mods and users to be fighting and disrespecting eachother. I will continue my pursuit in other threads this one is finished for me.
Closed at OP's request.
Edfunkycold
Have a great day!