Develop Bugs

Ouch I feel like I am going to regret

My TP2 just shipped (I guess I'll recieve it in 2 or 3 days) and I just saw today that the Omnia Pro is set to be out in August
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/samsung-b7610-louvre-rematerializes-specd-and-caught-on-camera/
Much more powerful processor than the TP2 AND slimmer phone
Aaaahhh I feel so bad
That said I think the TP2 looks better (but it's fatter..........)

TP2 still better IMO.
I only thinking of HTC Snapdragon based device after this.

Better ? Mmh I dont think so but I hope I am wrong
I also forgot about the better camera, and extra memory
But yeah I love TOuchFlo + the great support from XDA, so... at least that gives me a bit less regrets (Besides the keyboard of the TP is probably better (Though I dont care that much)

Alcibiade said:
My TP2 just shipped (I guess I'll recieve it in 2 or 3 days) and I just saw today that the Omnia Pro is set to be out in August
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/samsung-b7610-louvre-rematerializes-specd-and-caught-on-camera/
Much more powerful processor than the TP2 AND slimmer phone
Aaaahhh I feel so bad
That said I think the TP2 looks better (but it's fatter..........)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read that the interface is (at least at the moment) sluggish despite the CPU, and I hate the ergonomics (tilt, keyboard) of the device. I'm curious about 2 things on the OmPro, 1) how much battery life the AMOLED screen saves over LCD and 2) what performance increase comes from the video acceleration it advertises. For now, I actually have more good to say about the cheaply constructed acer m900.
Specs aren't everything[/sacrilege].

fortunz said:
I read that the interface is (at least at the moment) sluggish despite the CPU, and I hate the ergonomics (tilt, keyboard) of the device. I'm curious about 2 things on the OmPro, 1) how much battery life the AMOLED screen saves over LCD and 2) what performance increase comes from the video acceleration it advertises. For now, I actually have more good to say about the cheaply constructed acer m900.
Specs aren't everything[/sacrilege].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True I forgot the AMOLED screen
Even if it doesnt save much energy, you can at elast expect it to ahve way better contrast than regular LED screens
Specs arent everything, but it is Samsung. You can expect them to do much better than Eten

Much better pics there:
http://www.techchee.com/2009/06/14/samsung-louvre-b7610-pictures-and-specs/
Aaah it looks so slim compared to the TP2
Probably lighter as well I guess

Alcibiade said:
You can expect them to do much better than Eten
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Click to collapse
That depends on what you mean by "better". Better build quality and specs, sure. But there's almost nothing on the OmPro that really draws me in yet. The TP2's processor is fast enough. TP2's RAM (not clear on what amount of memory is reserved for active processes on the OmPro) is enough to do what I want. TP2's ergonomics are untouched and its interface has been optimized and honed across several past models.
What does draw my eye on the lower quality Acer device is that, out of the box, the biometric sensor that was designed solely for checking fingerprints multitasks--without making room for a big dpad, Acer has still provided what seems to be a very usable and versatile navigation aid while still saving space and adding a nice security feature. I suspect the TP2's zoom bar will also be hacked for similar functionality, but the added options aren't there out of the box. The m900 pulled a little rabbit out of it's hat with this one, and I think it deserves props.
I also noticed that the m900 has a built-in menu for auto-rotation settings by program, out of the box. The TP2 needs an external program for that functionality, and I wouldn't be surprised if the OmPro did too.
I suspect a lot of people will be drawn to the OmPros based on the specsheet alone, and if that happens, I'm actually glad. That just means the TP2 will face some more price pressure, and I might get a better deal. If I sit down next to an OmPro user, I don't anticipate feeling envy so mush as pity, because long after they've started lusting after the next higher spec'd device (often probably for little reason other than some of the numbers are "bigger"), I'm still going to be profoundly content with my choice.

fortunz said:
That depends on what you mean by "better". Better build quality and specs, sure. But there's almost nothing on the OmPro that really draws me in yet. The TP2's processor is fast enough. TP2's RAM (not clear on what amount of memory is reserved for active processes on the OmPro) is enough to do what I want. TP2's ergonomics are untouched and its interface has been optimized and honed across several past models.
What does draw my eye on the lower quality Acer device is that, out of the box, the biometric sensor that was designed solely for checking fingerprints multitasks--without making room for a big dpad, Acer has still provided what seems to be a very usable and versatile navigation aid while still saving space and adding a nice security feature. I suspect the TP2's zoom bar will also be hacked for similar functionality, but the added options aren't there out of the box. The m900 pulled a little rabbit out of it's hat with this one, and I think it deserves props.
I also noticed that the m900 has a built-in menu for auto-rotation settings by program, out of the box. The TP2 needs an external program for that functionality, and I wouldn't be surprised if the OmPro did too.
I suspect a lot of people will be drawn to the OmPros based on the specsheet alone, and if that happens, I'm actually glad. That just means the TP2 will face some more price pressure, and I might get a better deal. If I sit down next to an OmPro user, I don't anticipate feeling envy so mush as pity, because long after they've started lusting after the next higher spec'd device (often probably for little reason other than some of the numbers are "bigger"), I'm still going to be profoundly content with my choice.
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Click to collapse
My Hermes is fast enough too... It's a bit funny to say you pity people going for the best specs [Though I understand what you mean: implementation is key]. "Fast enough" always depends on what you are aiming for... If you want to do gaming with your phone, you are always happier to have something fast
It's very likely the Samsung camera will be better than the TP2 (Samsung is a camera maker, and the camera is supposed to have an autostabilizer + a flash)
It is quite obvious from the pics it is also slimmer and I find it difficult to say you prefer a fatter phone in your pocket (Personally I dont)
The screen is quite likely to look better than the TP2's (However the "touch" part of the screen may not be as good) and will draw less juice (how much less, that we dont know)
I do agree the interface should be better on the TP2 (though we may see TouchFlo 3D adapted for the Omnia) and the phone looks better (I dont like the Samsung black & orange look)
As far as the price is concerned you are most likely right. However I wont enjoy the pressure on price since I already orderd my unit
In the end I thnk the TP2 looks a bit better, but fatter and with specs probably not as good, for maybe a hiher price than the one rumored for the Samsung
Dont take me wrong, I love HTC (It's my second HTC device), but this doesnt prevent me from being critical and not acting like an inconditional fan boy
Anyway TP2 will be enough for me to wait for a Tegra device (We'll need it if we want decent games... Typically the new iPhone will probably rock for this (Until tegra arrives and potentially proves to be better)

I am not sure it looks thinner by a lot. Maybe a few mm. Nothing that you can really wow about it. Samsung will reveal this phone, if its true, this month. You will have some real measurements then. HTC will also be revealing a line of new phones on 24 June. So maybe there will be more surprises. Maybe some Snapdragon goodies.
Don't be sad, I have just ordered mine too and it has yet to arrive. I still waiting for my carrier to call me to pick it up (should be today, fingers x). There will always be new things arriving and new technologies that will beat todays tech. So why be sad. Knowing that this upgrade for me is what will keep me happy for another 12 to 18 months puts a smile on my face already. By then, there will be 1.0+ GHz CPUs, GBs of storage space, GBs of RAM, Millions of colours and brilliant LCDs. Maybe a TP3 even.
This phone won't be available until 3Q. Look at the Omnia HD. It was announced back in February. It came out in June (only in some countries and not even here in Asia yet). So it took nearly 4 months. And the styling of the phone changed completely. So don't hold your breath on it. If the annoucement is gonna be made in June / July. You won't see the phone until October at the earliest and we won't see it until Xmas in Asia. Samsung takes ages to launch their phones over here.
So why wait and the long face?

I think the touch pro 2 looks better, and the design (especially the keyboard) is better. Apart from the processor, I don't see any improvements..
There probably is a long way to go optimizing this new processor also.
This is the first omnia trying to get to the bussiness people, so I am curious how that will happen. I never seen the UI but it sound really good. If it's really that good, I think it will be available via this forum for us too

cocoaju said:
I am not sure it looks thinner by a lot. Maybe a few mm. Nothing that you can really wow about it. Samsung will reveal this phone, if its true, this month. You will have some real measurements then. HTC will also be revealing a line of new phones on 24 June. So maybe there will be more surprises. Maybe some Snapdragon goodies.
Don't be sad, I have just ordered mine too and it has yet to arrive. I still waiting for my carrier to call me to pick it up (should be today, fingers x). There will always be new things arriving and new technologies that will beat todays tech. So why be sad. Knowing that this upgrade for me is what will keep me happy for another 12 to 18 months puts a smile on my face already. By then, there will be 1.0+ GHz CPUs, GBs of storage space, GBs of RAM, Millions of colours and brilliant LCDs. Maybe a TP3 even.
This phone won't be available until 3Q. Look at the Omnia HD. It was announced back in February. It came out in June (only in some countries and not even here in Asia yet). So it took nearly 4 months. And the styling of the phone changed completely. So don't hold your breath on it. If the annoucement is gonna be made in June / July. You won't see the phone until October at the earliest and we won't see it until Xmas in Asia. Samsung takes ages to launch their phones over here.
So why wait and the long face?
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Click to collapse
Thanks for cheering me up. No reaso to be sad, it will be anyway definitely better than my Hermes (Cant believe all my friends switched from Hermes to iPhone...)
Anyway my purchase is exactly in the same purpose as yours: wait for mature, well balanced tegra or snapdragon phones with better screens, camera, etc... ie roughly 1 year from now

Alcibiade said:
Thanks for cheering me up. No reaso to be sad, it will be anyway definitely better than my Hermes (Cant believe all my friends switched from Hermes to iPhone...)
Anyway my purchase is exactly in the same purpose as yours: wait for mature, well balanced tegra or snapdragon phones with better screens, camera, etc... ie roughly 1 year from now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are welcome mate!
There will be many of us sitting in the same boat for the next 12 months. Some will jump on and some will jump off. Hopefully support for this phone will be as great as the HD, so there will be many of more tweaks and upgrades to make this phone being 'THE' phone to have for 2009.

in my opinion, the TP2 will probably be the best in its class for the year to come even over any Samsung competition, mainly because of the stability and work put into the integration of the HTC software and WM OS. Samsung has great specs, but their software leaves a lot to be desired. I had an Omnia and a Blackjack 2 and they were extremely buggy, as with most WM machines I had. But with HTC Touch HD and onwards, they've really come close to making the OS as stable and quick as possible. The processor and specs look enticing on the new Samsung, but I'm confident that the TP2 will still out perform it in real life usage. (another case in point is that I had the Samsung INNOV8, the Nokia N96-killer...great hardware, but never came out with a new firmware and was always buggy and choppy to use).
So for right now, I don't think anyone should regret picking up the TP2 or Diamond 2...both excellent pieces of engineering. The real waiting should be for the next generation of snapdragon units...

tsaojam said:
in my opinion, the TP2 will probably be the best in its class for the year to come even over any Samsung competition, mainly because of the stability and work put into the integration of the HTC software and WM OS. Samsung has great specs, but their software leaves a lot to be desired...
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Click to collapse
Totally agree! I tried playing around with the TouchWiz and it is crap. Don't like it at all. Don't like the widgets and stuff on it where you can move things around. It makes it look messy. I was never keen on those moving around thingies. I know they are trying to achieve a desktop feel but it just looks weird on a vertical screen.

Alcibiade said:
My Hermes is fast enough too... It's a bit funny to say you pity people going for the best specs [Though I understand what you mean: implementation is key]. "Fast enough" always depends on what you are aiming for... If you want to do gaming with your phone, you are always happier to have something fast
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The device comes with DLNA, a connectivity regime that I gather is for displaying video between devices. I could understand an increasing need for speed for someone who wanted to store HD vids and TV-out them to an HD set, but there, I'd be skeptical that 800mhz would do the trick (which is part of why I mentioned being interested in how much performance you could get from the video acceleration mentioned in the specs) until I actually saw it in action. It's one of those things where, unless the vid accel is awesome, it probably works JUST well enough, and then in 6-12 months once the novelty wears and the defects really shine, the user is going to be drooling over some 1+ ghz snapdragons. Once you start looking at some of these devices on a price per month basis in situations like that, they look less attractive.
I'm not sure what games are available for WinMo that really push specs. Are you plugged into that? Is it just about looking for more hertz for better emulation performance? Or are there some serious native titles available that lag on current hardware or have settings you can crank up for better performance?
The thing is, there are tons of peeps who think 800mhz MUST be better than 500mhz, even though they have no particular application category where the processor is a real bottleneck. Clockspeed is, both in mobiles and desktops, a decreasingly useful metric for actual performance increases. Infrastructure is more and more important, and software optimization is the great undiscovered country in computing performance.
It is quite obvious from the pics it is also slimmer and I find it difficult to say you prefer a fatter phone in your pocket (Personally I dont)
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Click to collapse
If you look at girth as a single feature, you're right, it's hard to argue. If you look at it as a balancing act between features, then the question isn't "fatter or thinner" but rather "fatter with better ergonomics or thinner with worse ergonomics". In this case I'm weighing the TP2's 5 row, offset, well-spaced (and potentially better tactile feedback) keyboard and tilt ability against the apparently (are there measurements yet?) thinner OmPro without them. Given that we're talking about a couple of mm, I'm totally willing to sacrifice thinner for the ergonomics. It is a personal choice, but not an indefensible one
The screen is quite likely to look better than the TP2's (However the "touch" part of the screen may not be as good) and will draw less juice (how much less, that we dont know)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery life in portables is a huge factor for me. It plays into usability in a big way. If AMOLED really delivers, I will be wooed, just not before I see hard proof. If Samsung can't deliver the type of resistive screen responsiveness HTC managed in this round, that might be wash.
Dont take me wrong, I love HTC (It's my second HTC device), but this doesnt prevent me from being critical and not acting like an inconditional fan boy
Anyway TP2 will be enough for me to wait for a Tegra device (We'll need it if we want decent games... Typically the new iPhone will probably rock for this (Until tegra arrives and potentially proves to be better)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This will be my very first HTC, and my very first winmo. I look at devices based on what they bring to the table, not on who made them (thus the Acer props). So I'm not trying to attack you for being disloyal , just attempting to reassure you that the two things you mentioned in the OP weren't necessarily worth hari kari.
If someone will really rip off some of HTC's best work in the very near future and throw in a snapdragon, well, yeah, then let the disemboweling commence.

Guys,
according to today's release notes Omnia Pro has 135MB RAM.
1GB is for ROM.
That's a far cry from TP2's 288 MB RAM.
If this is true, it's just not enough, regardless of the nice screen (AMOLED), potentially faster CPU (Mhz is not everything, needs to be benched) and nicer camera.
On WM devices RAM is the 2nd most important thing after CPU or your device slows to a crawl

vasra said:
Guys,
according to today's release notes Omnia Pro has 135MB RAM.
1GB is for ROM.
That's a far cry from TP2's 288 MB RAM.
If this is true, it's just not enough, regardless of the nice screen (AMOLED), potentially faster CPU (Mhz is not everything, needs to be benched) and nicer camera.
On WM devices RAM is the 2nd most important thing after CPU or your device slows to a crawl
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeha if it's true you defintely cheer me up
135MB is a little bit weird number though...
Yeah Mhz is not everything (For instance I never ever owned a Pentium P4 ehehe) hwoever in this field Samsung processor have the repuation of usually being faster clock for clock (Again I agree with you it definitely depends on the architecture of the processor)

Just got mine today as said before. Let me tell you. NO REGRETS WHATSOEVER!
You will see when you get yours mate. Man, it's a beauty!

The guys gave you technical reasons why our tp2 is still better... mine is much more simple.. the tp2 is still prettier and sexier....

Is there kind of flash for camera in TP2? My X01HT has white beam turning on when activating "flash". Thanks.
cocoaju said:
Just got mine today as said before. Let me tell you. NO REGRETS WHATSOEVER!
You will see when you get yours mate. Man, it's a beauty!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Who's holding out?

Just out of curiosity, how many of you are holding out on buying a new WP7 phone until 2nd generation? I know for the average user, these specs may seem amazing, but for the advanced/techy users, it seems under-powered.This is especially because they're using a 2 year old CPU when a more recent one that has better 3d performance and battery life is out in the market.
I, for one, will be holding on to my Touch Pro until 2nd generation WP7 comes out. Anyone have any idea when that will be?

would like to hold out, but the problem here is my touch pro's backspace, space, 1, tab, and fn key has basically died out on me

You should use the swype keyboard. I never went back to the physical keyboard once I started using swype.

tried it
don't really like it
i still prefer physical keys though
but yah, i'm looking to get the venue pro. but it seems to look like the tp's keyboard, and frankly, i do dread it a little

If i had a decent phone today i would wait for second gen, but i'm on an HTC Magic now, running Android 2.1 and everything is soooooooo slow i feel like throwing the phone into the wall. Can hardly scroll on this forum on the phone because it's so laggy.
Have set my eyes on an HTC Mozart.

I'll definitely be waiting for the 2nd gen. All the phones looks pretty ugly IMO, not to mention the old processors....and the AT&T selection sucks.

I'd like to wait, but my Fuze is on life support. As much as I would like for the specs to be better for this first gen of WP7 phones, they handily beat the Iphones specs and most WM phones. I am buying a gen one knowing that I will be buying a gen two next summer. I am considering my gen one as a 'get aquainted' with the OS phone while I hold out for a stunner in '11.
http://designfabulous.blogspot.com/2010/07/htc-1.html
Well, we can dream. HTC just needs to hire this guy.

I think people that hold out aren't as tech savvy sad they think.
Understand that android is optimized to run on various hardware specs. While windows phone 7 was designed for this specific hardware.
The same spec phone running both operating systems won't be comparible. The overall speed of wp7, the quality of the apps, and the games will be superior to android even after the dual core phones release.
The only thing that could bump the android back up is strong min specs of the new version of the OS and market apps that are only available to phones with those specs. Developers need to also commit to designing apps for a very small market of those top-of-the-line phones.
Those are the reasons why my rooted nexus one, car dock, and desktop dock will be on ebay within a month.
I love android, but I am always excite to test new things. After all, one could always ebay the phone and buy another extremely easily. I don't see any reason not to try wp7 unless you are locked into a contract and unwilling to buy an unsubsidized phone.

Nah I'm gonna get the HD7 as soon as my contract expires in late spring. Currently have the Moto Cliq with Android. If MS makes a Zune HD2, than I might think about getting a 64gb version of that and get the latest and greatest Android phone, Iphone, or Palm Phone.
Definitely not digging android anymore;
*sluggish, having to constantly kill apps and restart the phone
*Multiple OS fragmentation means I missing out on a lot of apps
*No app quality control (sick of buying an app thats sluggish or just plain buggy)
*No Easy Desktop Sync like Itunes or Zune
*NO AUTOMATICALLY UPDATING MUSIC PLAYLIST - A biggy for me.
Also I have a zune pass and hate having to convert my music just because Android doesn't play WMA DRM.
WP7 minimum specs aren't all that, but better than the minimum of Android which is still 528mhz processor for Android 2.1

The little angel sitting on the right shoulder is saying "Wait, wait!"
The little devil sitting on the left shoulder is saying "Get it, what are you afraid of? Offline Outlook Sync?"
Oh it is so hard!
But on a serious note, as soon as I am sure that it will Sync with Offline Outlook or I have a non cloud solution that I can trust, I will get it.

There isn't going to be an ideal phone for me in the first wave, but I'm gonna get one soon. Ideally I want the Dell Venue Pro but with Super AMOLED instead of AMOLED, and a MSM8255 SoC instead of the QSD8250's. But besides that, I think I will be happy with the Dell. "Dude, you're getting a Dell"
Also I really want WP7 to succeed. So in order to get a phone those next 2nd Gen phones with the Dual Cores and 32GB of memory, that means the 1st gen's need to succeed. So I'm gonna buy one to support my long term goals.

the QSD8250 has still more than enough horsepower to be used today. don't just look at what speeds and GPU does a processor holds but also take into the fact how well the OS utilizes the processor.

IMO its best to get the first wave. By the time the second wave hits (say this time next year), none of the apps/games will be fully utilising the power of the new processors anyway (since majority of WP7 handsets would have the QSD cpu and that'd be where the money for devs is). So you'll have all this power yet nothing to make use of it (basically like the Galaxy S). It'll take about 6 months imo til games start utilising the newer processors and run somewhat subpar on first gen devices.
So IMO that gives first-devices from launch about 18months of excellent performance, before it starts feeling 'old in the tooth'. By the time first gen buyers upgrade in approx. 24months, there'd be the third generation CPU's hitting the streets, and that'd be able to run second gen apps with ease, and the whole cycle starts again.

I'm definitely waiting until this gets jail broken. And if Htc comes out with a slide out keyboard for it. Not enough good phone options for me. When phones similar to the tilts come back wp7 has got my full attention then.

At the moment, I just can't justify giving up my HD2.
It'd be amazing if WP7 gets ported to the HD2 and I will, for sure, boot it up. I'm sceptical about some aspects of WP7 and so would like to see what impact (if any) these aspects have on my day-to-day usage.
If all goes well, then I will consider a WP7 device early next year. Hopefully, by then we'll have had a round of updates for stability issues (inevitable) and some missing features added.
So, in short, I think I'll hold out till wave 2 (or at least until the OS has settled a bit).
Casey

diego1985 said:
I'm definitely waiting until this gets jail broken. And if Htc comes out with a slide out keyboard for it. Not enough good phone options for me. When phones similar to the tilts come back wp7 has got my full attention then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you should wait for the htc 7 pro this looks amazing and i don't think it will be long before someone jailbreaks it.

Both
Gonna get the new WP7 phone out of the gate, for sure. Then I'll be in a great position to sit back and wait for a 'dream device,' which I'm not sure will make it out before the holidays next year. If it does, I'll get it, but if not I'll have gotten my money's worth with the phone I'm going to get shortly.

I have no choice but to wait. I am on Sprint, so I can't even begin to think about getting one until they release theirs. And "sometime in 1st half of 2011" is pretty vague. So for now, I have to sit back and read about everyone's experience.
So hopefully, I will be reading good reviews.

lumpaywk said:
then you should wait for the htc 7 pro this looks amazing and i don't think it will be long before someone jailbreaks it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft updates WP7 so any exploits will be patched in record time.
You can prolly refuse the OTA, but it can suck if that fix is bundled with a fix/enhancement you need...
Clear ur jailbreak and get copy and paste, or go without? Lol...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

powersquad said:
the QSD8250 has still more than enough horsepower to be used today. don't just look at what speeds and GPU does a processor holds but also take into the fact how well the OS utilizes the processor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a truth with some modifications. Yes, the 8250 is more than powerful enough to run the OS and any games/apps released for it - it is however not powerful enough to playback [most] HD video and this is the reason why I'm disappointed by the current wave of devices.
I have terabyte upon terabyte of [mostly] HD video stored on my server which I am unable to view on the phone without re-encoding them. This is a process I go thru at the moment with my HD2 and I was really looking forward to a little more horsepower in WP7 devices so I could simply import then rather than spend a lot of time re-encoding them first.
Personally, I have to get a 1st wave device for development purposes, but I very much doubt it will replace my current HD2 or Evo as the day to day phone. Not only for reasons of hardware but also due to lack of services offered locally (no localized bing search, no XBL integration, no 'full' marketplace, no Zune pass and the list goes on).

Evo, Evo Shift, or wait for the dual cores?

After having a hero for over a year it is now time for it to retire. After reading about several revisions to hboot, hardware, and software there seems to be a bit of confusion (for me).
I'm asking for your input. Should I just jump in and get an Evo or wait until CES and see what's coming down the road?
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

Depends, but it was around middle of January that speculation started for the Evo and we heard about the mysterious A9292 Supersonic, but not much else was known about it. Still, I don't expect Sprint to come out with a device that's significantly better than the Evo until June or later. Dual core smartphones haven't really been released in any country. Snapdragon devices were released around November 2009. You can bet that that duallies will come out in Europe and Asia as a GSM phone at least 3-6 months before a manufacturer pushes out a CDMA device to the states.

I say wait for ces
Sent from my soon to be gingerbread evolution 4g

Wait and buy one outright if you can
misfit0313 said:
After having a hero for over a year it is now time for it to retire. After reading about several revisions to hboot, hardware, and software there seems to be a bit of confusion (for me).
I'm asking for your input. Should I just jump in and get an Evo or wait until CES and see what's coming down the road?
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

The Hero is only good for a year?

The thing is, if you wait til CES then 6-9 months after that, there'll be something else better coming up and you'll want that. I say pick up the EVO now - there's still room to grow for the EVO with gingerbread, and there might not be a radical change in the smartphones that come out next year. 2010 was a pretty big year, all across the industry with Froyo, 4G, 4"+ screens, 1GHz processors, etc. Of course, every year something new comes out, but across the industry 2010 had so many changes I can't see them really topping that for 2011. Especially since we really need battery technology to catch up to handset technology at this point. My guess is that there will be something wildly innovative in 2011 (maybe we'll all be walking around with pads and bluetooths instead of smartphones). But that's just my guess.

TheBundo said:
The Hero is only good for a year?
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Click to collapse
The hero is still a good little phone and works great a year later. There's a premier upgrade available, burning a hole in my pocket.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

Pay in cash or buy on ebay, dual cores are going to come out sometime next year
misfit0313 said:
The hero is still a good little phone and works great a year later. There's a premier upgrade available, burning a hole in my pocket.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
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Click to collapse

Here's my thinking:
The EVO is not future proof but it's not that bad because of CM. It's biggest gaping bottleneck is the GPU and 3.0 looks like it's bringing full on HW acceleration, so it may or may not run on the EVO favorably. I wouldn't take the risk based off of my impression of the 3D gallery (which is HW accelerated and does not run 100% smoothly in the EVO). IMO you should pass on the EVO 4G.
The EVO Shift is a whole lot safer. The HW in it is (or at least should be) very, very similar in performance to the Nexus S, so that considered, I think it's safe to say that it'll run any App or Android version that you throw at it for at least a year - year and a half. Being a HTC product you'll also get a lot of community dev here on XDA and on other sites. I think if you want a new phone now, it's a safe phone to get. The only question mark is whether it has a FFC which may or may not be important to you (but with the inevitable drop of GTalk video chat, I think it should be).
Dual cores: if you want to wait for the latest and greatest be prepared to wait forever.

Award Tour said:
Here's my thinking:
The EVO is not future proof but it's not that bad because of CM. It's biggest gaping bottleneck is the GPU and 3.0 looks like it's bringing full on HW acceleration, so it may or may not run on the EVO favorably. I wouldn't take the risk based off of my impression of the 3D gallery (which is HW accelerated and does not run 100% smoothly in the EVO). IMO you should pass on the EVO 4G.
The EVO Shift is a whole lot safer. The HW in it is (or at least should be) very, very similar in performance to the Nexus S, so that considered, I think it's safe to say that it'll run any App or Android version that you throw at it for at least a year - year and a half. Being a HTC product you'll also get a lot of community dev here on XDA and on other sites. I think if you want a new phone now, it's a safe phone to get. The only question mark is whether it has a FFC which may or may not be important to you (but with the inevitable drop of GTalk video chat, I think it should be).
Dual cores: if you want to wait for the latest and greatest be prepared to wait forever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pass on the Evo but go with the shift?? LMAO!!!! Now that is hilarious.

swaze said:
Pass on the Evo but go with the shift?? LMAO!!!! Now that is hilarious.
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Click to collapse
Yup, the first gen Snapdragon is from 2009 and it's GPU is ancient by current standards -- for comparison even the original Droid's PoweVR SGX 530 GPU was better. The shift should have the smaller, more energy effecient second gen Snapdragon/Scorpion CPU and the newer Adreno GPU that is roughly 3-4 times better.
Also note how I said that the EVO was good but not guaranteed to be as future proof? I'd rather recommend the phone that is worth having in the long run.

Award Tour said:
Yup, the first gen Snapdragon is from 2009 and it's GPU is ancient by current standards -- for comparison even the original Droid's PoweVR SGX 530 GPU was better. The shift should have the smaller, more energy effecient second gen Snapdragon/Scorpion CPU and the newer Adreno GPU that is roughly 3-4 times better.
Also note how I said that the EVO was good but not guaranteed to be as future proof? I'd rather recommend the phone that is worth having in the long run.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seeing as most people have a phone 1-2 yr tops, the EVO will be just a relevent after 2 years as it was when it was released. Will run great on gingerbread and honeycomb as it does today. Also the shift is not even released and will be outdated before it is. The next round of releases will be dual core and by the time they are ready to hit the streets, the shift will be history.

swaze said:
Seeing as most people have a phone 1-2 yr tops, the EVO will be just a relevent after 2 years as it was when it was released. Will run great on gingerbread and honeycomb as it does today. Also the shift is not even released and will be outdated before it is. The next round of releases will be dual core and by the time they are ready to hit the streets, the shift will be history.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't know how the EVO will run Honeycomb, if at all. Honeycomb looks like it's the first Android version to have full hardware acceleration (2.3 doesn't yet). My one and only observation is that the EVO can chug on the 3D gallery which is HW accelerated and for simple things too - like opening the menu. will that also be the case with Honeycomb? I don't know but should any new customer take the risk?
I originally got the EVO for two reasons: CM declared support and since the EVO had the same internals as the Nexus One I knew that it would at least run most of the newer Android stuff through the year. While not the same, the CPUs in the Hummingbird and second gen Qualcomm CPUs are very similar and the GPUs are pretty much on par in terms of performance. So my rational is: anything the Nexus S will run, the Shift will probably be able to run too. The same can not be said of the EVO.

Award Tour said:
We don't know how the EVO will run Honeycomb, if at all. Honeycomb looks like it's the first Android version to have full hardware acceleration (2.3 doesn't yet). My one and only observation is that the EVO can chug on the 3D gallery which is HW accelerated and for simple things too - like opening the menu. will that also be the case with Honeycomb? I don't know but should any new customer take the risk?
I originally got the EVO for two reasons: CM declared support and since the EVO had the same internals as the Nexus One I knew that it would at least run most of the newer Android stuff through the year. While not the same, the CPUs in the Hummingbird and second gen Qualcomm CPUs are very similar and the GPUs are pretty much on par in terms of performance. So my rational is: anything the Nexus S will run, the Shift will probably be able to run too. The same can not be said of the EVO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you say so, running CM6 on mine and I have no chug while running the 3D gallery or any other app. So not sure what you mean.

swaze said:
If you say so, running CM6 on mine and I have no chug while running the 3D gallery or any other app. So not sure what you mean.
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Click to collapse
Of course you don't. The EVO is the most perfect phone ever made, there will never be a more advance phone. Ever. I must have been dreaming when I bought my parents the Optimus S (which has the same GPU but runs at a lower resolution), played around with the 3D gallery app and saw that it was 60 FPS smooth while my EVO was running at under 30 FPS for certain actions. Yeah, that must of been it.
Look, I'm giving my recommendation. Live with it. Make you own and let the OP decide.

Award Tour said:
We don't know how the EVO will run Honeycomb, if at all. Honeycomb looks like it's the first Android version to have full hardware acceleration (2.3 doesn't yet). My one and only observation is that the EVO can chug on the 3D gallery which is HW accelerated and for simple things too - like opening the menu. will that also be the case with Honeycomb? I don't know but should any new customer take the risk?
I originally got the EVO for two reasons: CM declared support and since the EVO had the same internals as the Nexus One I knew that it would at least run most of the newer Android stuff through the year. While not the same, the CPUs in the Hummingbird and second gen Qualcomm CPUs are very similar and the GPUs are pretty much on par in terms of performance. So my rational is: anything the Nexus S will run, the Shift will probably be able to run too. The same can not be said of the EVO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I picked up the EVO for literally the exact same reasons. Everybody knew before the phone was released that it was running a QSD8650. Asus ran it in their EeePc middle of last year, and its been available to manufacturers since 2008...not exactly state of the art. Plus the adreno200 chip is terrible. I doubt anyone here bought the EVO thinking they were getting the top tier in cpu performance lol. Not trying to piss anyone off, but comeon the cpu in the EVO is halfassed compared to current OMAP, Hummingbird, or second gen snapdragons.
At this point honestly I would wait, not for dual core, but simply for Sprint to release something with a second gen processor. To my knowledge the LG Star is the only announced dual core phone at the moment. Its gonna be a bit before we see OEMs dropping dual core phones left and right.
Also the shift is not even released and will be outdated before it is. The next round of releases will be dual core and by the time they are ready to hit the streets, the shift will be history.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the Shift gonna be outdated before its released? We dont even know whats in it...and by that logic, the EVO was outdated before it was released as well.

AdamHart612 said:
I picked up the EVO for literally the exact same reasons. Everybody knew before the phone was released that it was running a QSD8650. Asus ran it in their EeePc middle of last year, and its been available to manufacturers since 2008...not exactly state of the art. Plus the adreno200 chip is terrible. I doubt anyone here bought the EVO thinking they were getting the top tier in cpu performance lol. Not trying to piss anyone off, but comeon the cpu in the EVO is halfassed compared to current OMAP, Hummingbird, or second gen snapdragons.
At this point honestly I would wait, not for dual core, but simply for Sprint to release something with a second gen processor. To my knowledge the LG Star is the only announced dual core phone at the moment. Its gonna be a bit before we see OEMs dropping dual core phones left and right.
How is the Shift gonna be outdated before its released? We dont even know whats in it...and by that logic, the EVO was outdated before it was released as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually we do know whats in it, its all over the web, and yes the EVO was outdated just as is every smartphone released at any point in time. Manufactures always have the next one lined up prior to releasing any phone.

I was in the same boat but upgraded to EVO almost 2 weeks ago. The way I look at it is, with annual upgrades, why not?

chriswiegman said:
I was in the same boat but upgraded to EVO almost 2 weeks ago. The way I look at it is, with annual upgrades, why not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The EVO is 6 months old and the Shift is set to be released in about 3 weeks, that's why. Just sayin'.

I say if you can get the optimus S with your premier upgrade for free. get it.....and fleabay it. I did that and made a cool $245. Pocket the money and wait till CES and at least see whats coming out, if nothing peaks your interest then fork in an extra $100 or so and buy a brand new EVO outright on ebay (EVO maybe even cheaper at that point...)
Upgrades arent all about getting a new phone then and there, sometimes you gotta just buy something to "use" up your upgrade and sell the phone that will bring you back the best return. That way your upgrade renews itself quicker and you made some $$$ on the side... my 2 cents if you want to put in a little work.

Ballmer: "Mango phones coming out this Christmas"

http://www.wpcentral.com/ballmer-mango-phones-coming-christmas
I reallllly hope I'm not right (I'm calling early/mid 2012 for Mango).

Did you come across the some of the 2nd generation phones announced today?
http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-reveals-new-samsung-mango-device
Really liking the new Samsung.

That one he pulled out of his pocket looked wicked.

sure haven't said:
That one he pulled out of his pocket looked wicked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If your look at the video in 720p, you can see a spot towards the top left of the phone....Is that a front camera spot ?

certainly looks like a ffc and leave it to samsung to do it...
HTC/LG your move

Ya, I believe one of the articles I've read (Engadget?) leaned toward it having a front-facing camera.
We just have to wait I guess, until we can get a higher quality video to confirm.

sure haven't said:
http://www.wpcentral.com/ballmer-mango-phones-coming-christmas
I reallllly hope I'm not right (I'm calling early/mid 2012 for Mango).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think people are taking that comment WAY to literally. I can guarantee that he did not mean "arriving in stores on Christmas day". He meant for the Christmas shopping season. Which, for most people in the manufacturing and retail industries means "late October" .
Besides, we still don't know which will come first, new Mango devices, or the release of the Mango update to carriers for existing phones.

That's a GSII with WP7. Same as the original GS that became the Focus.

Can OEMs use dual core processors with WP7?
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Peew971 said:
Can OEMs use dual core processors with WP7?
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. If they want to. They can go above and beyond the minimum specs at their discretion as long as they at least meet them.

DavidinCT said:
If your look at the video in 720p, you can see a spot towards the top left of the phone....Is that a front camera spot ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could be. But if you look at the Optimus 7 it looks like it has a front facing camera. However it doesn't. Could be the same thing.

I hope we are WOWed....as of now, no hardware wows any of us

Peew971 said:
Can OEMs use dual core processors with WP7?
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not believe so. Microsoft is being strick on Hardware. I believe their writing the chipset drivers themselves, which is why it's only Snapdragon 1st gen right now. They want to avoid the horrible driver issues that happened on WM, especial HTC & their crappy 3D drivers. Mango adds some 2nd gen Snapdragon support, but haven't seen anything dual core yet. Nevermind the fact that WP7 doesn't need it yet.

hopefully , ballmer will have enough sense to wait a little while AFTER the iphone 5 release... otherwise there's no point with the release.
no dualcores ? man, I hadn't heard that yet. there could be some awesome camera apps with that benefit.

I don't think anyone really need dual core atm, I was just asking to guess if Samsung could use the exact same hardware for wp7.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

They will just like they did with the Galaxy S -> Focus. Just remove some hardware stuff.

Part of me says Yea, for Dual cores, then another side does not...
Nice thing about WP7 now, everything runs on Every device but, once you get into to dual core CPUs, there will be games made for the dual core that don't run on the signle core...
So you would need to upgrade if you want to run everything...
Just like my windows PC that I have to spend about $600 a year (every 3 years about $1200) so I can run every game on the market with no slow downs and awsome frame rates..

we don't really need dual core at the moment.. games would get better, but devs still have to consider the first gen hardware..

It would be nice if WP7 phones were modular. You could replace components with upgraded ones. The latest CPU a dual core? No problem! Just flip a back panel open and pop in the dual core. Need a FFC? No problem! Just pop off the small front panel and plug in the FFC. Need an upgraded GPU? No problem! Just open up the cover and replace the existing one with the latest from ATi or nVidia.
Sounds a lot like custom computers but would be a boon for WP7.

I'm almost sure we will see mango + devices just in time for christmas, if all goes well, or more probably due to some hiccup in super-improving your new os version and devices, for your enjoyment, they will have to make it slide to january, which in turn means that most people will get the mango update in february/march. I think the first mango+nokia phones will be ready almost too late for christmas

[Q] Galaxy Nexus Why all the anticipation ?

After seeing all the specs on this phone, and some hands on video, I am pretty dissapointed with the wait. There are phones out now that pretty much rival all aspects of the Nexus - except the ICS. In a month or so, ICS will be available to the the other phones. When it is, it will put the Nexus on par with them (or a notch below).
Whats all the hype about ? It seems like it is all around ICS, and a device we cannot yet get our hands on.

Ics. Duh.
I invented cyberspace. You're trespassing.

Why ?
Because of the ****ty carrier update system.
Personally Id by an Amaze 4g today if the stupid piece of crap carrier and HTC werent in the way of me getting Android 4.0. As it stands pretty much the only way you get to use it is by getting a GN or waiting 2-3 months for decent roms to come out.
Again. Since Google refuses to mandate min. time frames for carrier/OEM updates this means noone has a clue when they can get a major OS update. Making GN the only choice for months.
The HD screen is the second biggest factor , I havent seen any comparison to a QHD screen so dont know if its as big a deal as Im making it out to be.

The display, the OS, and the fact that it's a Nexus device. Win/Win/Win.

For me it's not having an annoying overlay. Touchwiz and Sense are ok, but I'd much rather have vanilla Android.

randypurcz said:
After seeing all the specs on this phone, and some hands on video, I am pretty dissapointed with the wait. There are phones out now that pretty much rival all aspects of the Nexus - except the ICS. In a month or so, ICS will be available to the the other phones. When it is, it will put the Nexus on par with them (or a notch below).
Whats all the hype about ? It seems like it is all around ICS, and a device we cannot yet get our hands on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus line is not suppose to be "top of the line" spec phones.
But to answer your question, the Galaxy Nexus comes with ICS, that's why everyone wants it.
To put things into perspective. I bought my G2x a few month ago, and it shipped with Froyo, with a promised update to Gingerbread. This was many, many months after Gingerbread was released.
Typically, phones won't see the latest android OS a few month after the OS has been announced. So if you want the latest OS, you need to go with a Nexus device.

1.) ICS
2.) Likely to have a huge developer base
3.) Hardware fairly optimized for software (and according to: http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/17/2568348/galaxy-nexus-review , its blazing fast)
4.) 720p HD Screen (again according to the above link and also http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/11/17/galaxy-nexus-review-part-1-hardware-overview-video/ although the screen is pentile, it still is amazing)
5.) Vanilla Android
6.) ???
7.) Profit
Now, I can see why some people might not want to buy this phone because of the following three reasons:
1.) Low-standard GPU - could become obsoleted fairly quickly (really old GPU) and I highly doubt a lot of games in the future could run on this device
2.) Although the hardware is fast now, in a few months from now it may not be as fast in comparison to other devices. (Remember CES 2011 with the introduction of dual core smartphones? From then on, the single core processor phones were essentially obsoleted + it is rumoured that there will be quad core phones later this year - http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/11/15/r...ndroid-4-0-with-a-2-5ghz-quad-core-processor/)
3.) The battery life may not be great with this phone

randypurcz said:
Whats all the hype about ? It seems like it is all around ICS, and a device we cannot yet get our hands on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's exactly what it is a Developer reference phone for ICS
that's why you no longer see the state of the art hardware included anymore since Nexus S

I see all your points.
I guess I think Google/Samsung/Verizon, just dragged thier feet too long on getting it to market IMO. I think higher spec phones are just months away, so the only thing cutting edge here is ICS. Just my opinion.
Now, I do have the Nexus on the way, but I am just not going to be sleepless over it. I just sold my Galaxy Note (too big to function as a phone for me, but one hell of an information device), but I will always wonder how it would have performed with ICS versus GB.

mohitrocks said:
1.) Low-standard GPU - could become obsoleted fairly quickly (really old GPU) and I highly doubt a lot of games in the future could run on this device
2.) Although the hardware is fast now, in a few months from now it may not be as fast in comparison to other devices. (Remember CES 2011 with the introduction of dual core smartphones? From then on, the single core processor phones were essentially obsoleted + it is rumoured that there will be quad core phones later this year - http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/11/15/r...ndroid-4-0-with-a-2-5ghz-quad-core-processor/)
3.) The battery life may not be great with this phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmmm... methinks you didn't give your cons much thought as they all contradict. each other.

oilfighter said:
The Nexus line is not suppose to be "top of the line" spec phones.
But to answer your question, the Galaxy Nexus comes with ICS, that's why everyone wants it.
To put things into perspective. I bought my G2x a few month ago, and it shipped with Froyo, with a promised update to Gingerbread. This was many, many months after Gingerbread was released.
Typically, phones won't see the latest android OS a few month after the OS has been announced. So if you want the latest OS, you need to go with a Nexus device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the nexus phones are developer phones so are set at being what google expect the average phone to be in the middle ics lifetime. After all theres no point developing on a phone when no other phone comes close to the specs. The only benefit really is it gets the latest android first rather than waiting for manufacturer releases or even later for mobile operator releases.
Personally I'm still undecided and also considering the RAZR or waiting to see what comes out in the next few months. There is no phone which makes me think I must have it at all costs at the moment. SGS2 is meh, HTC XE looks nice but doesn't excite, only RAZR and Nexus I'm considering though I'd consider the rezound if it was available in the uk.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

pukemon said:
hmmm... methinks you didn't give your cons much thought as they all contradict. each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so? I don't believe I did.
---------- Post added at 03:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 AM ----------
gbroon said:
I think the nexus phones are developer phones so are set at being what google expect the average phone to be in the middle ics lifetime. After all theres no point developing on a phone when no other phone comes close to the specs. The only benefit really is it gets the latest android first rather than waiting for manufacturer releases or even later for mobile operator releases.
Personally I'm still undecided and also considering the RAZR or waiting to see what comes out in the next few months. There is no phone which makes me think I must have it at all costs at the moment. SGS2 is meh, HTC XE looks nice but doesn't excite, only RAZR and Nexus I'm considering though I'd consider the rezound if it was available in the uk.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't go for the RAZR, as many reviews I have seen put it on a bad place compared to the Nexus (E.g. www.theverge.com)

For me it's the screen and ICS ....Why the crappy gpu and only 5meg camera and sub par audio is beyond me.....I don't play many games but the gpu in the s2 woulda been nice..I sold my Vibrant and need a phone now might not wait and just get gs2..The gpu in the nexus is very dissapointing ...Why the newer high end device would be speced lower than the older s2 is just dumb imo.
I did find a store that imports them and is expected the 28th for $749 shipped......The gs2 will cost me $444 local tmo.....Decisions Decisions!

Until the quad cores come out much later in 2012 the galaxy nexus will mostly be top dog. The next batch of devices will all be dual core 1.5ish ghz, some will get some version of 720p screens some will not. We should see that clear through summer until the galaxy hd/3.
That's a pretty good run for a device add to it the google experience and well it should hold its own for two years easily. IMO the only people getting screwed are the people buying the gs2 now.
As long add it's out before the end of January on AT&T (unlikely) I'll buy the galaxy nexus otherwise I'll wait for summer.

Well now it looks like the GS2 has already been ported, so maybe months of wait will be reduced to weeks to get a usable ICS rom on some of the better devices. Cancelled my preorder(Nexus) and am thinking of purchasing another Note !

STi489 said:
For me it's the screen and ICS ....Why the crappy gpu and only 5meg camera and sub par audio is beyond me.....I don't play many games but the gpu in the s2 woulda been nice..I sold my Vibrant and need a phone now might not wait and just get gs2..The gpu in the nexus is very dissapointing ...Why the newer high end device would be speced lower than the older s2 is just dumb imo.
I did find a store that imports them and is expected the 28th for $749 shipped......The gs2 will cost me $444 local tmo.....Decisions Decisions!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to refer you to here where they go beyond speculation and actually have the device so aren't pulling things out of thin air like 99% of the people here.
For people who tl;dr:
"Before we received the device, what troubled us was the idea of a last-generation GPU pushing 1280×720 pixels of the Galaxy Nexus’ screen — we can now say that fear is unfounded. We picked up and played a few games of Wind-up Knight and found it performed better in its native resolution than did the Motorola RAZR at 960×540. The RAZR uses the same GPU at a slightly slower speed, but has 40% fewer pixels. Google has done some serious tweaking to the graphics drivers to achieve such amazing results."
Just like how we don't compare ATI and Nvidia cards by their GFLOP's nor triangles per second, we should keep in mind that performance is dependant on both hardware and drivers - and varies with games just as some games naturally play better with Nvidia cards and some perform better with ATI/AMD cards. Drivers make a world of difference. Looks like Google/PowerVR/TI have done their job.

STi489 said:
For me it's the screen and ICS ....Why the crappy gpu and only 5meg camera and sub par audio is beyond me.....I don't play many games but the gpu in the s2 woulda been nice..I sold my Vibrant and need a phone now might not wait and just get gs2..The gpu in the nexus is very dissapointing ...Why the newer high end device would be speced lower than the older s2 is just dumb imo.
I did find a store that imports them and is expected the 28th for $749 shipped......The gs2 will cost me $444 local tmo.....Decisions Decisions!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again, MP means jack **** EXCEPT picture size. Do your research before you comment. As some comparisons have said its only a little below the iPhone 4s in quality, and guess what? That's not due to MP.
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium

That review was pretty good.