Is there any free offline maps for HTC Desire?
try Mapdroyd
Thanks for your help
It does not have turn-by-turn navigation. Is there any offline turn-by-turn navigation for Ontario, Canada.
Try Motonav. Good GPS program.
Copilot is nice, although is paid app with full functional gps navigation
try navigon
All of these are paid apps. Can't i have something free?
Nokia offers OFFLINE OVI Maps how come Andriod does not have something like that.
..alee said:
All of these are paid apps. Can't i have something free?
Nokia offers OFFLINE OVI Maps how come Andriod does not have something like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is. You can use Google Navigation. If you are not in US or UK (or whatever country that is available) you can use "Google Maps brut". You can cache your maps to use them offline.
search for NavDroyd. It costs €5 and works with OpenStreetMap.
Works pretty good.
spritable said:
There is. You can use Google Navigation. If you are not in US or UK (or whatever country that is available) you can use "Google Maps brut". You can cache your maps to use them offline.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Afaik it only caches the ones you have loaded before, i.e. you can't use it for navigating in areas you have never been before...which is kinda the reason why you'd need navigation in the first place
..alee said:
All of these are paid apps. Can't i have something free?
Nokia offers OFFLINE OVI Maps how come Andriod does not have something like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nokia offers free offline maps because (a) they are very much playing catch up with Android these days, and (b) purchased Navteq for $8 Billion which means that the maps they are giving away are their own property.
As I understand it, Google "owns" their maps for the US, but have to license maps for most of the rest of the world. You can see this if you zoom into a US map on Google Maps - it will say the map is (c) Google. If you do this on a UK map, it will say (c) Teleatlas.
In order for Google to make navigation available legally, in territories outside the US, they have to come to an agreement with the owners of the maps, which presumably involves money changing hands. Clearly they have done this with Teleatlas as the UK now gets Navigation, whereas other regions are having to rely on Brut Maps (which is a non-Google sanctioned hack).
At the end of day, the free offline OVI maps is very much a unique selling point for Nokia, and will likely remain so until Google and/or others purchase their own map data.
Regards,
Dave
Let me clear one thing .. I am currently in Canada. So I guess, legally i am in the territory whose maps are copyrighted by Google.
Now back to the offline maps. I will check the brut maps for google. Thanks
I was under the impression that Google Nav was available in Canada!
See here.
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
I was under the impression that Google Nav was available in Canada!
See here.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no doubt its free but i have to have DATA PLAN :| .. I am looking for "Offline Free Turn by Turn Navigation System"
..alee said:
no doubt its free but i have to have DATA PLAN :| .. I am looking for "Offline Free Turn by Turn Navigation System"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO you are not going to find one - at least not one of acceptable quality.
Google and Nokia have very, very different business models.
To Google, Android is just a mechanism through which they can serve up their services and thus their adverts, and so an fully offline solution just doesn't suit their business model.
Nokia on the other hand want to sell you phones, and given that they rather dropped the ball with Symbian (which is a fantastic OS, let down by a poor UI), they need to do something different to try and recapture some momentum.
Sorry, but what you are looking for just doesn't exist. The harsh reality is that if you want turn by turn navigation on Android that is both good quality and offline, you are going to have to pay for it. My suggestion would be Copilot because it is a great application, and it is very cheap for what it is.
Regards,
Dave
Today HTC announced the new service:
" HTC Sense adding pre-cached maps! No more waiting for maps when zooming or panning." So just wait. Think soon it will be available not only for announced HTC Desire Z anв Desire HD.
Related
Hi,
in about two weeks i'll be travelling to London.
As i hopefully get my Desire this week, i've wondered if there was a way to get any satellite maps (or even google maps) to work offline.
Connecting to the internet would be pretty expensive (roaming), so it would be great if i could download the City Map for London on my device and then just use it offline.
Does Google Maps currently offers a possibility to save the cached data? Or are there any good Apps for that?
What's with google navigator? Possible to download maps there?
Thanks in advance
fooXeh
I've never tried (Still waiting for my desire) but i was already checking for some handy apps to do this and found MapDroyd. Just google it (i can't post urls)
Seems it's exactly what u need but maybe there are others apps out there
Thanks,
just looked at Mapdroyd, looks nice.
Not as good as a Offline Google Maps but should do the thing.
- www.mapdroyd.com/
Any other suggestions?
If you download the patch to let you use google nav, (search this forum) it will save the route to your phone, so you dont require data.
This clearly only works if you dont re-route.
Fon22
Look at either Sygic or Co-pilot. Also see the threads that mention them in the Themes and Apps folder. I use Sygic and like it a lot.
I don't need a full navigation software, just want to browse the Satellite map for underground stations, sightseeing stuff and so on.
I'd never dare to drive a car in England, you guys drive on the wrong side of the street
I will wait for this:
http://aura.sygic.com/
3D map ftw!
It is the next product from Sygic.
In the meantime, probably I will buy Co-Pilot, cheaper
norm2002 said:
Look at either Sygic or Co-pilot. Also see the threads that mention them in the Themes and Apps folder. I use Sygic and like it a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still, those are all full navigation softwares.
Any free, non-navigation alternatives besides MapDroyd?
I did read somewhere recently on some official Google forum a thread about offline use of Google Maps. A Google employee posted a response along the lines of Google being aware of this requirement amongst the user community and something might be in the works. But not to hold our breaths.
Edit: Found it:
h**p://w w w.google.co.uk/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=3634773013544912&hl=en&fid=363477301354491200047ea68ef31c45&hltp=2
Look half way down the page at the "Best Answer" from Thom dated 3rd February 2010, which says:
Best answer - Thom (Google Employee)
Hi all,
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. The reason I haven't replied directly to this thread is that I and my forum colleagues don't comment on the future availability or functionality for any Google products, including Navigation. That said, the development team and I are very, very aware of the desire to have an "offline" mode for Google Maps Navigation. We're currently exploring options about how to provide a better experience when in limited or no data coverage areas, so please look for changes to Navigation in the future. Thanks for understanding.
Best,
Tom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did a quick google search for you and found this.
http://www.nutiteq.com/
It does offline viewing of streetview maps and wont break the bank at 2 euros.
looks nice, nicer than mapdroyd, thx
cant find a sat nav program like tom tom anywhere. i`d rather use my data connection for surfing the internet and not using the voiceless bing maps. does this mean i should keep hold of my touch tiamond 2 and its tom tom?
don't think there is anything out there yet.
Have you contacted tomtom and asked when they are going to release a wp7 version?
I can live with telenav (tmous) until bing nav is released in the first update.
Although Bing Nav will use data as well just like Google Maps nav does.
I have Singtel Xplorer from Telmap. Works great!
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express
zard said:
I have Singtel Xplorer from Telmap. Works great!
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... lucky you! Those of us anywhere else in the world are still waiting. Although at least we know this stuff is really coming out FAST!
What did Singtel cost?
Free for 6 months and thereafter S$5 per month.
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express
I'd imagine the 225 MB max package size for the WP7 marketplace might be a problem for offline navigation apps (unless the app downloads the maps separately).
amb9800 said:
I'd imagine the 225 MB max package size for the WP7 marketplace might be a problem for offline navigation apps (unless the app downloads the maps separately).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you may want to petition the dev of Maverick (android) to make a pay-for app.
it's a very good OFFLINE gps app, which caches maps directly from (alphebetical order, not quality ) bing, google, mapnik, osma, others. the really nice feature is you can build your own maps from downloaded tiles, then dump them to the sdcard and have maverick use -those- tiles for your offline viewing.
caveats:
not a turn by turn app.
not a 'navigation' app.
wp7 is stupid about usb storage, so transfering files >2Gb will be a pita.
wp7 has no pre-installed navigation, so people are -not- buying the phone with this premise (no user base)
plusses:
caching (if you ever figure out the stupid sdcard issues)
it's already mature on android
the dev is stable
cheap
if / when a non-M$ application comes out, hopefully it won't be from tomtom or garmin. if you've used those in the past, you know just how bad they are on mobiles, without data. the best i've used is Google Navigation, as it caches the route once it's selected, and then all you need is a GPS signal, no data required. THIS, is a feature all phone apps should have that deal with mapping. Are you listening microsoft ? TOMTOM ? Garmin ?
Also, if/when an app is released, subscription based application is an instant FAIL. $49 apps are a FAIL. pay-for-each-region-of-maps are a FAIL. Hopefully the app makers are paying attention this time, for the wp7 users' sake.
ohgood said:
.......
if / when a non-M$ application comes out, hopefully it won't be from tomtom or garmin. if you've used those in the past, you know just how bad they are on mobiles
Also, if/when an app is released, subscription based application is an instant FAIL. $49 apps are a FAIL. pay-for-each-region-of-maps are a FAIL. Hopefully the app makers are paying attention this time, for the wp7 users' sake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used Tomtom and Navigon for years on my cell... I love them. Granted the development hasn't as great as a stand a lone unit but for having the convenience of only having to carry around ONE unit and not having a separate unit in the car for this I think they're pretty good. I use tomtom EVERY day for work going to do estimates etc.
So, subscription based is out, 50 dollar apps are out, pay per map is out.... how are these companies supposed to make money? It's one thing for google or MS to develop a free gps app for their OWN os, its another for tomtom or something to do it and just give it away for free. I cant see why they would do that. Not a very good buisness model is it
I have no doubt when they update Bing to have full on 3d Navigation like google nav on android that's what I'll be using as my main gps.
Hey Guys! I was just wondering. I've been using "iGo8" on my HD2 all the time. I replaced iGo over my regular GPS. Simply loving it Now, I have it on android: It's almost as good as wm version. However, I'm thinking about Windows Phone 7 OS and particularly about switching to HD7. But what's pushing me back is a GPS software. So, is there any good GPS app for WP7 like iGo8?
at present no. the closest thing is Bing Maps which only provide general directions, not turn-by-turn navigation. there are carrier based ones which have subscription fees, but from what i've seen they're mainly in the US, and hence become useless for many others.
The Gate Keeper said:
at present no. the closest thing is Bing Maps which only provide general directions, not turn-by-turn navigation. there are carrier based ones which have subscription fees, but from what i've seen they're mainly in the US, and hence become useless for many others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your respond! I see now.. it's a new OS and I guess we just have to wait for good gps apps. Anyway I've been using Android for a while and I love it, however I really like the speed of WP7 which makes it look perfect.
It is possible to use Navigon with European maps if you don't mind getting more familiar with jailbreaking and sideloading. It's all happening over in the Apps section.
It'll do as a stop-gap measure until Navigon start selling the app legitimately, or someone else introduces an app (Copilot perhaps?)
wheresmybeaver said:
It'll do as a stop-gap measure until Navigon start selling the app legitimately, or someone else introduces an app (Copilot perhaps?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Co-Pilot this week is still saying "no" to WP7, but won't say why. Maybe the API is too restrictive for them? I thought the Nokia partnership would change their minds but hasn't appeared to.
Here you will find how to use Navigon with North America maps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11288801&postcount=223
Read and follow the instructions carefully, and in case you need the webserver application you can get it from this post.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11078728&postcount=151
Guys, I just saw this in Zune software. NavFone by Bali. The description says it's a voice guided navigation app for WP7 devices.
http://www.marketplacebrowser.com/291557/navfone-bali-gps
MartyLK said:
Guys, I just saw this in Zune software. NavFone by Bali. The description says it's a voice guided navigation app for WP7 devices.
http://www.marketplacebrowser.com/291557/navfone-bali-gps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Navi Ninasus for voice guided navigation. Maybe it's not available outside of Germany.
Not available in the UK.
MartyLK said:
Guys, I just saw this in Zune software. NavFone by Bali. The description says it's a voice guided navigation app for WP7 devices.
http://www.marketplacebrowser.com/291557/navfone-bali-gps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not available in Australia... and in description it says its for Bali.
But it surely prove the implementation of voice guided navigation.....
What about silver navigator? Voice turn by turn navigator.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
rajivshahi said:
Not available in Australia... and in description it says its for Bali.
But it surely prove the implementation of voice guided navigation.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe...I thought that was the brand name. I need to get out and see the world someday.
Until they can fully multi-task I don't see them being that good. I tried the other one after I seen something about it on Twitter, and I just can't deal with it unless it can multi task and pop up when you need to do something on screen in voice with a Toast-Like notification (think the Zune Controls when the phone is locked).
SilverNavigator shows promise. All it needs is local business search and voice input for searching and I think it would be great.
anyone else find this interesting? somewhere down the line microsoft is going to bring out navigation for bing maps like in 6.5 for free right?
in the meantime private developers can make some money by providing apps that fill in those feature gaps. (don't get me wrong, I'm willing to pay, i need a navigation app asap).
I was just wondering if any of you thought it was microsoft giving those folks a bone or their software is just not prepared at all and they're like oh dang we're too slow everyone else is making apps...
gkoonjul said:
anyone else find this interesting? somewhere down the line microsoft is going to bring out navigation for bing maps like in 6.5 for free right?
in the meantime private developers can make some money by providing apps that fill in those feature gaps. (don't get me wrong, I'm willing to pay, i need a navigation app asap).
I was just wondering if any of you thought it was microsoft giving those folks a bone or their software is just not prepared at all and they're like oh dang we're too slow everyone else is making apps...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With MS, nothing is sure. I'm of the mind to think they just aren't smart enough to do it. But any number of scenarios could be true. However, from all I've understood of MS, deception is certainly high on the list. MS isn't a consumer oriented company and they don't seem to know how to deal with the public to make them happy. Personally, I believe this ethic will cost them again like it has with Zune and WinMo. I figure stuff like free Bing nav in WinMo 6.5 was a last ditch effort to try to stave off the bleeding. I believe if MS could take your money and give you nothing in return, that is their highest business goal.
I couldn't have imagined that Microsoft would launch WP7 without any GPS app available at launch.
Turn-by-turn is an essential feature on a smartphone.
MS have been working for 2 years on WP7. I thought they would work hand in hand with a major GPS software developer. But no. Nothing.
More than 6 months after launch there is still nothing. Navigon is not available in my country, Google Maps is not available, Tom Tom is not interested in WP7... and I can't stand Bing Maps which is unusuable.
arturobandini said:
I couldn't have imagined that Microsoft would launch WP7 without any GPS app available at launch.
Turn-by-turn is an essential feature on a smartphone.
MS have been working for 2 years on WP7. I thought they would work hand in hand with a major GPS software developer. But no. Nothing.
More than 6 months after launch there is still nothing. Navigon is not available in my country, Google Maps is not available, Tom Tom is not interested in WP7... and I can't stand Bing Maps which is unusuable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that is a little bit of an over-reaction. To my knowledge, the only smartphone with a bult in turn-by-turn app is Android (wich technicaly is a free downloadable app, not built in). The free app for WM6.5 only worked on phones with the correct resolution display (still doesn't work on my Vogue).
Although I don't like Bing as much as I did google maps, it actualy works fairly well.
I think the biggest issue is multi-tasking. How can you run a Turn-by-Turn app, then after answering the phone, the app has to re-load.
arturobandini said:
Navigon is not available in my country, Google Maps is not available, Tom Tom is not interested in WP7... and I can't stand Bing Maps which is unusuable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been testing Navigon in France since two weeks.
The software is basic, but it does the job.
All you need to do to make it work you will find in this forum. For the files... Google will be your friend.
Higherflight said:
I have been testing Navigon in France since two weeks.
The software is basic, but it does the job.
All you need to do to make it work you will find in this forum. For the files... Google will be your friend.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for the help.
If only Bing Map could be as efficient.... : http://youtu.be/8UT0wJ1Go7A
I just discovered it, and I am amazed. Maybe I chose the wrong OS
arturobandini said:
Thank you very much for the help.
If only Bing Map could be as efficient.... : http://youtu.be/8UT0wJ1Go7A
I just discovered it, and I am amazed. Maybe I chose the wrong OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your call. Bing Maps won't be the solution, I strongly doubt that.
LE: I stand corrected, MS is at it, apparently they're looking into it
Microsoft already announced its partnership with Nokia and Ovi maps are okish (something to read here)
As for the Google Maps... needs Android. And for that, ask yourself: do you think it's perfectly ok for someone else to know everything you've done, browsed, phoned, texted, etc? Also to be able to control what apps you install, eventually block or uninstall them remotely without your interaction? Not for me...
Personally I've used both TomTom and iGo, and I prefer the later. Hopefully one of these solutions will be here for WP7. One can dream
Btw, there is a thread here about Navigon on HD2 WP7
Thanks a lot EnderPsp
INTRODUCTORY SPECIAL OFFER - COPILOT LIVE PREMIUM 50% OFF FOR 7 DAYS ONLY
As it says special offer i just paid £12.49 for UK and Ireland version via the Android market .
jje
Thanks for the heads up. Could anyone explain the difference between Premium and the normal one?
Anyone know how this compares to navigon?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
JJEgan said:
INTRODUCTORY SPECIAL OFFER - COPILOT LIVE PREMIUM 50% OFF FOR 7 DAYS ONLY
As it says special offer i just paid £12.49 for UK and Ireland version via the Android market .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the heads up. Any differences you noticed compared to "regular" version?
Save your money and buy something that's worth it. CoPilot is worst navigation system I have ever seen!
I bought the full European version for £29.99 instead of £60.
It does annoy me that the USA Version is only £2 for Standard and £6 for Premium!
Navigon is a sack of sh1t compared to this (IMHO).
Each to their own, personally I think it rocks and for the money you cannot complain!
I bought CoPilot v8 at the beginning of May, when I got my S2. It cost me just over £20.
ALK have confirmed there is no upgrade path and all they will provide existing users (along with everyone else) is this 7 day, 50% discount.
After having a quick look at what this new 'Premium' versions offers, I think I'll be saving my money and wait for v10.
A reviewer wrote:
Stick with V8. Glad this wasn’t an upgrade!! V9 seems to have forgotten what SATNAV is for. Suggested routes are ridiculous. Every route needs editing, not good when at the roadside and all you want is to get from A-B. No routing prefs Shortest, Quickest etc. Road prefs if not on neutral make things worse. No town\city location display. Often looses gps fix. Display on Wildfire has grey pixelated areas and chopped off icons. ‘Not fit for purpose’ in many areas. Needs to be fixed – quick or Refund please!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be honest i have yet to use any Sat Nav as i have yet to need one .
I know where i am going and dont get lost .Its there a s a maybe just in case .
jje
Anybody know if map updates are free (and for how long time)?
Does Copilot Live Premium support Danish menus and voice?
Thanks
Mittaa said:
Anybody know if map updates are free (and for how long time)?
Does Copilot Live Premium support Danish menus and voice?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maps for the region your purchased are free. E.g. I bought UK and Ireland version (those maps are free). I can additionally purchase maps for other regions (e.g. Western Europe).
Regarding the voice, screenshot attached.
Overall this version is great. The UI is epic compared to the last version.
nobnut said:
Maps for the region your purchased are free. E.g. I bought UK and Ireland version (those maps are free). I can additionally purchase maps for other regions (e.g. Western Europe).
Regarding the voice, screenshot attached.
Overall this version is great. The UI is epic compared to the last version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot
I have been told that maps update should be free for 1 year.
Found a thread in Androidforums with a very useful user reviews of Copilot Live Premium ... scroll down to post from jalan94
http://androidforums.com/android-applications/363484-copilot-live-premium-released.html
Mittaa said:
Thanks a lot
I have been told that maps update should be free for 1 year.
Found a thread in Androidforums with a very useful user reviews of Copilot Live Premium ... scroll down to post from jalan94
http://androidforums.com/android-applications/363484-copilot-live-premium-released.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a very fair review I would say.
As for the maps, that may be true, I am not sure, but I don't believe it is. I think the cost of the Copilot app includes the maps.
There are additonal 'bolt ons' available within v9.0 which cost extra. I have paid for Traffic (£9.99 per annum), I would have paid for Fuel Prices (4.99 per annum) but it is not available in the UK presently.
The best part for me is the upgraded registration process. In v8.0 it was a nightmare and if you wanted to change from one device to another, it could quite literally make your brain bleed. It is easy in v9.0.
Overall, I am very happy, I am just jealous that I do not live in the US where this is extremely cheap. The cost of maps must be less for Copilot over there I guess.
Someone told me that CoPilot do not integrate with Android Contact
This should mean that it isn't possible to invoke navigation from an Contact address ... is this a fact (or a joke)?
If you're talking about selecting a contact in Android's Contacts app & navigating to it via CoPilot, that doesn't seem to be an option -- instead of opening CoPilot, it takes you into Google Maps. It may be the case that Android doesn't provide the hooks to allow third-party apps to be called from within their Contacts app; Google wrote the OS, so they set the rules.
However, you can select your Android contacts from within CoPilot.
3waygeek said:
If you're talking about selecting a contact in Android's Contacts app & navigating to it via CoPilot, that doesn't seem to be an option -- instead of opening CoPilot, it takes you into Google Maps. It may be the case that Android doesn't provide the hooks to allow third-party apps to be called from within their Contacts app; Google wrote the OS, so they set the rules.
However, you can select your Android contacts from within CoPilot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android do provide the hooks to allow third-party apps to be called from within their Contacts app. IGO My Way is one confirmed example.
Is Copilot as good or reliable as tomtom? Tbh, I still find myself using my htc touch diamond for satnav since it has tomtom navigator on it. Honestly, all the other satnavs around are crap from what I've tried. They all have some fancy features or graphics which are nice or better in some way (like I use google satnav sometimes and it speaks actual road names which is cool, but no speed camera warnings) but overall, tomtom is the only one I trust and feel comfortable with and which holds my hand down every road. Can't wait till tomtom hits android.
Roman5 said:
Is Copilot as good or reliable as tomtom? Tbh, I still find myself using my htc touch diamond for satnav since it has tomtom navigator on it. Honestly, all the other satnavs around are crap from what I've tried. They all have some fancy features or graphics which are nice or better in some way (like I use google satnav sometimes and it speaks actual road names which is cool, but no speed camera warnings) but overall, tomtom is the only one I trust and feel comfortable with and which holds my hand down every road. Can't wait till tomtom hits android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know how you feel ... I'm on my way to France on a 2x1800 km trip ...
Hate all this Facebook/Twitter **** on Copilot Live Premium, and just hope the navigation part will work!
IGO8 on Windows Mobile is the best satnav I ever have used, so I'll take my old Windows Mobile phone with me in case Copilot let me down.
Mittaa said:
Android do provide the hooks to allow third-party apps to be called from within their Contacts app. IGO My Way is one confirmed example.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the correction -- good to know that. I've been on Android for only a month or so, after having used WinMo since Windows CE 1.0 back in 1996.
BTW, I've seen several people mention IGO My Way on Android. However, I can't find any reference to it on Android Market, nor can I find an Android version on the IGO website. How does one get the software?
3waygeek said:
Thanks for the correction -- good to know that. I've been on Android for only a month or so, after having used WinMo since Windows CE 1.0 back in 1996.
BTW, I've seen several people mention IGO My Way on Android. However, I can't find any reference to it on Android Market, nor can I find an Android version on the IGO website. How does one get the software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google --> IGO My Way Android
Problems - just me?
Hello all
I'm having real problems with mine at the moment. It locks up constantly usually when a planning a route but often when navigating and sometimes it hangs the phone too.
Mine's a very standard installation, not rooted and the phone is stable otherwise.
It might just be me but if not I'd say it's a long way from being release worthy.