Related
Although some members may get p*ssed maybe one phone forum at a time. Yeah those who have to wait till you get to their phone may not be happy but it should be less chaotic if the thread is limited to a particular phone.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
My suggestion:
1. Be specific in your post. If you don't want us asking questions to which you've already composed answers, please post the questions you have so we don't repeat them. We cannot read your mind when you say, "I have your questions so don't ask the same ones."
2. Designate a moderator solely to that post. Probably not feasible, but if the moderator can make it primary focus, it can be kept civil and clean. A little work, but it could help the community.
3. While moderating, do not delete people's posts. If a question is posted that is being considered by SamsungJohn, simply replace the text with "Question is being addressed" or "Content does not benefit thread"
People are extremely disappointed in the whole communication realm amongst Samsung and Sprint so of course they're going to be a little raw. That's why it's extremely important to be VERY SPECIFIC in what you have and what you are looking for.
Next post example: "Here is the list of questions I will be addressing soon: 1) 2) 3), etc. Outside of those questions, are there any others you'd like addressed?"
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
daryelv said:
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
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I would doubt SamsungJohn is going to answer questions on the fly. He needs to time I guess to see if he can answer such questions. Actually I don't recall him saying he was going to answer any questions. He just wants us to ask questions that would benefit Galaxy S phones. Bug or defects that the phone may have.
Probably would be best to put it in the hands of moderators. They can weed out the repeat questions and all the where is froyo questions and maybe just pm a clean list of questions instead of having a thread that's gonna go straight to hell.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
othan1 has the best suggestion so far.
Unfortunately, with the gigantic amount of negative feeling about Samsung right now, I don't think its wise to do any Q&A before a Froyo source is released. Thats when technical questions will be much more relevant.
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
PUT OUT OR GET OUT.
STOP THE BULLSHIIT
I HOPE THERE IS A CLASS ACTION SUIT For producing a piece of crap phone that doesn't work and then not producing fixed or updates.
dwallersv said:
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
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Amen...... But I would have to say that him being here and wanting to work with the community IS a huge announcement. I hope that we can all try and see the possibilities here, as opposed to tying him to the nearest tree and crucifying him. Is xda not about the free exchange of ideas as a community? I hope on the next attempt we can be civil, and actually accomplish something
This whole interaction failed because Samsung still has no idea what they are doing:
1. SamsungJohn says he has been watching the forums
2. If he has been watching, WHY does he need anyone to post technical questions
3. The problems with all the Galaxy S phones are well documented - here and with Samsung
4. Samsung offers no real support and so they think a forum will help them organize suppport issues
5. Samsung is more concerned with selling product then fixing issues
6. He offered nothing from Samsung to start this - Samsung should be extending an olive branch (the technical equivalent anyway) but they gave us nothing
7. Samsung changed their message from "Froyo by End of year" to "coming whenever"
8. Customers have lost faith and are moving on
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.
Most of us will not let ourselves be fooled twice. I am tired of technology companies promising fixes and not delivering.
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
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And that is why they posted here. So they can spread the 'outreach' news.
They know the issues. They've known the issues since August. Coming here and asking us what the issues are without even hinting anything will annoy most of the Galaxy S userbase.
Add to that, the 'huge' announcement was a thread to ask us what the issues with the phone are?
Me thinks John needs to be a bit more careful with the words he chooses. Very poor choice.
Huge would be telling us that 2.3 is on the way or we are all getting free upgrades to the Nexus S. Thats huge.
Telling us you are a liason from Samsung trying to bridge the communications gap is not huge. Thats to be expected from a professional company such as yours. Do no expect us to jump for joy over things you are expected to do.
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
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retweet this:
http://twitter.com/#!/vorathe/status/37634312098693120
I really think before SamsungJohn posts a Q&A thread he really needs to lay out ground rules specific to what he can talk about and what he can't.But really I think that without being sble to ask about future updates like froyo and other fixes for our phone there really is no point in even putting up a Q&A thread because the only stuff we all care about we are told not to ask about so it really is a pointless jesture.Othan1 pretty much hit the nail on the head with his post of suggestions but knowing what can be asked along with that would go a long ways to keeping things on track and not turning the thread into a mess of pissed off people.
Seems like all SamsungJohn posts have been deliberately 'hidden' from view. They all started in the general forum, one got moved to off-topic and the other one is in the about xda-developer.com forum?
WTH is going on guys?
next one will be in the winmo section... NOBODY will find it there!!! muwahahaha!
My concern here is that the forum is being broken up, into elite users, and peasants. Those of us who aren't part of the elite group, are being treated like don't deserve to know whats going on. Either everyone has an equal say, and have access to the same information, or we might as well switch to iphone (because Apple doesn't let us know what's going on either).
This whole matter is being treated by both parties incredibly poorly. I understand it's a big move for both parties, but it's disturbing that a move which is apparently related to improving transparency, simultaneously is being done behind closed doors !
Made a new post in general: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=958106
it'll either get locked/removed or one of the mods will provide an answer.
This is in reference to the NilsP/Joelz petition threads that were closed by willverduzco, and the resulting lashing that he posted here. While there were a VERY small minority of posts that might have crossed a line of respect, an overwhelming number of the posts in there were simply people showing support for the developers that deserve that recognition.
I find it disturbing that the moderation team can't seem to take some criticism here. This is a community, and if the mod/admin team can't at least listen to the members of that community without mocking them or belittling them as was done in this thread, then this place is truly lost. Which is sad because it was (and in a lot of regards still is) a great place for android users/devs to get together.
I'm sure this thread will too be locked, and I'll take my whipping of the cat-o-nine-tails for daring to challenge the overlords, but this is really a sad state of affairs.
"iron fist" lol.
yeah, i'm sure this will be locked too.
badogg said:
This is in reference to the NilsP/Joelz petition threads that were closed by willverduzco, and the resulting lashing that he posted here. While there were a VERY small minority of posts that might have crossed a line of respect, an overwhelming number of the posts in there were simply people showing support for the developers that deserve that recognition.
I find it disturbing that the moderation team can't seem to take some criticism here. This is a community, and if the mod/admin team can't at least listen to the members of that community without mocking them or belittling them as was done in this thread, then this place is truly lost. Which is sad because it was (and in a lot of regards still is) a great place for android users/devs to get together.
I'm sure this thread will too be locked, and I'll take my whipping of the cat-o-nine-tails for daring to challenge the overlords, but this is really a sad state of affairs.
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i understand you are upset that nilsp did not get his badge for "reconized developer" and im not trying to say he does not deserve it (because is one of the great devs still on here).
but the way you decided to handle it was not good. posting it in the development thread to get it seen more is not the way to go. if you feel like he deserves the badge, then voice your opinion by pming Developer Committee please dont try to start a war on here. it will only end badly. we are already have enough wrong posting going on by people mistaking this as an INC 2 thread. please dont add to it.
if you dont like the rules then go to a different site. there are some of us on here that still want to keep order and help others and not make this a flame site.
*i am ready to be flamed now*
Dudes he gave us a proper way to appeal, which I personally didn't know about. Its not as epic as "challenging overlords", they just want us to follow the rules.
This "iron fist" thing has been talked about for weeks. There was a huge article on it in the portal about the sense of entitlement, people thinking for some reason that donations = labor contracts, the devs being frustrated by users *****ing, among other things. The easiest way for them to circumvent it is to have a zero tolerance policy, so they're not exactly gonna be nice about a whole lot right now. My advice to yall is to just let it go and be cool.
They run this place, we don't, period. Lets just enjoy what it does for our gadgets guys... They obviously are going through a rough time, the least we can do is make it easy on them.
Everyone needs to remember this is only a website... mods I respect you but seriously IT'S A WEBSITE... I'm 20 and have more sense than most people on here this is all childlike and uncalled for... this is a community not a hierarchy...
sent from my phone using ALL CAPS RAGE
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
wildstang83 said:
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
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I wasn't all bent until I read their responses. That is where I had a problem. The way that they dealt with this was disconcerting. All we wanted to do was to show some support for a couple of peeps, and if we did it wrong then educate us without being jerks about it.
Your thread is gone.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
lol stang, i think they deleted your thread.
it's the "i'm taking my ball and going home!" mentality all over again here at XDA.
wildstang83 said:
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
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3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
How dare you abuse the authority they gave you. Lol
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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*READS RULES*
Ok, so that makes sense for the one that was in the development forum, but what about the petition thread? I don't see anywhere in those rules that say that we aren't allowed to show support for another member/dev or question the decisions of the mods.
Sure there was probably a couple of members that might have pushed it a little far, but I don't think any of it was really over the line (but admittedly I didn't read every single post and I'm not going to) - just voicing displeasure about it, and showing support.
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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But making jokes and clowning is acceptable, as long as you're a mod, right? Go read the thread. They were laughing and clowning at the first 2 guys that posted about this. Then I called them out on it and all of a sudden they're serious about it. Then i get this comment from some idiot...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276306&page=239
WHERE'S THE IRON FIST AT? I'll take my ban as long as this dude does too...
Zeus... God of Awesome!
wildstang83 said:
Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
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im all for keeping the devs here, but posting a flame thread is not the way. (im also not stopping you from voicing you opinion if you do it the correct way.) it just adds fuel to the fire. that's something we don't need.
"If they disagree with a moderator's actions, users CAN complain (not in the forums, only via Private Message). We are putting systems in place to ensure that mods ask for advice from the team in complex situations. Senior mods and administrators will do everything we can to ensure that moderators wield their power for good, not evil. Fair but firm. Firm but fair. It's a balance we strive for daily, and this is a responsibility we all take seriously."
if you feel that he was wronged the do the right thing by pming the mods or the committee. then threatening the mods after you thread was closed is still not the way to get your voice out.
(thank you by the way for serving our country.)
cvbcbcmv said:
As a moderator of another forum. I have some experience with this stuff. It doesn't have nearly 4,000,000 members, but it has almost 30,000, it's a big chunk. About 6 moderators to handle it, and really only 2 keep up with it (me being one of them), the others log on about once a month. First of all, I don't like closing threads, it's just ruining freedom of speech, which is kind of the whole point of a forum, if I have to I'll edit every single post, but I like to let people speak their mind. I also never mention anything somebody did, even if a name isn't mentioned, anything someone in particular did. In the mods post he said about the member who is threatening to leave, well, I'll admit it, that was me, and anyone could have found that out. BTW, I'm not the first one to do that. I would never do that to one of my members. I hope this doesn't get edited or removed. I'm not whining, I'm just saying my opinion. Nothing wrong, nothing bad. Just saying it. Also, I never come back at my members in a mean or insulting way unless they come at me on a personal level. Not a moderating job level, but an actual personal level. I think it's wrong to go to your members and tell them they are just whiny little crybabies who need to grow up.
Sincerely,
cvbcbcmv
P.S I'm not complaining, I wouldn't fill out a formal complaint, that's not my point of this post. I just want to state my opinion.
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Bravo man. There was a lot of intolerance all around this issue, but I think the moderating really went down the toilet on it.
cvbcbcmv said:
As a moderator of another forum. I have some experience with this stuff. It doesn't have nearly 4,000,000 members, but it has almost 30,000, it's a big chunk. About 6 moderators to handle it, and really only 2 keep up with it (me being one of them), the others log on about once a month. First of all, I don't like closing threads, it's just ruining freedom of speech, which is kind of the whole point of a forum, if I have to I'll edit every single post, but I like to let people speak their mind. I also never mention anything somebody did, even if a name isn't mentioned, anything someone in particular did. In the mods post he said about the member who is threatening to leave, well, I'll admit it, that was me, and anyone could have found that out. BTW, I'm not the first one to do that. I would never do that to one of my members. I hope this doesn't get edited or removed. I'm not whining, I'm just saying my opinion. Nothing wrong, nothing bad. Just saying it. Also, I never come back at my members in a mean or insulting way unless they come at me on a personal level. Not a moderating job level, but an actual personal level. I think it's wrong to go to your members and tell them they are just whiny little crybabies who need to grow up.
Sincerely,
cvbcbcmv
P.S I'm not complaining, I wouldn't fill out a formal complaint, that's not my point of this post. I just want to state my opinion.
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This is how I moderate too, otherwise things like what's happened here repeat.....and that's bad
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I can see both sides of the argument. Nils is a great dev and should be recognized as a dev. The mods have a site to run andm unfortunatly, there are quite a few immature people that visit these forums and flame away, are disrespectful, and flat out rude. I would like to think that the mods realize that not giving him his dev title after all he has done for the community, was a mistake. I dont know if the will acknowledge that, but it is a mistake. On the other hand, and I have even been guilty at times, there is way too much flaming, rudeness, people demanding of devs, and moronic behavior all over this site, it has become really pathetic. If the mods actual felt that they needed to bring down the hammer, they should have started a long time ago and not let it get as bad as it is. I appreciate this site, but I am also thankful that there are other places I can get quality roms for my phone. Xda just isnt what it used to be when I joined several years ago.
cvbcbcmv said:
yeah, and anything like this has never happened on the forum I moderate, nothing get's passed a disagreement on a statement, and it doesn't come close to a flame war. It's friendly. That's how 2 moderators handle it. The people don't go flaming
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Yeah, and for a mod to put this text when moving a thread is not going to help:
"Moved: I'm incapable of posting or filing an appeal properly, so my thread was moved."
Members are going to cross the line, and honestly act childish at times - sure. But the moderation team shouldn't address that with even more childish behavior.
wildstang83 said:
Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
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First off as a fellow veteran I thank you for your service. However from what I've read about this site it was started in Europe so our American sense of 2nd amendment rites is kind of a mute point. This was and is a site created by devs for devs, us users are just here for the ride without much say in the matter as it isn't a democracy.
This fued some have going with Hacre I think is pointeless. To tell you the truth I think he is some type of enforcer on here. From what I can tell from googling him he's been asked before by mods to respond to posts in the exact same manner he is now. Hasn't anyone noticed not one mod in that main section is from America nor has said anything about Hacre's posts?
I think all the drama here is getting out of hand and its teime to just let it go. Yes I think they should have left the petition threads alone, but the op of the Nils thread asked for it to be locked. Yours I think was a mistake but you pissed someone off by reopening it on your own, maybe should have asked first? In my opinion this has done more harm than good to both Joel and Nils but I guess it wouldn't be xda if it didn't get all blown out of portion in a hurry and quickly go to ****.
With the unbelievable happenings in the development threads for our device sometimees, it's nice to see some serious words of wisdom. The closing words of hilaireg should ring true throughout the forum, and it shouldn't even be difficult. He said this in the now closed darchstar CM9 dev thread.
hilaireg said:
There seems to be a significant amount of animosity that permeates throughout the Android related forums. I'm not certain as to why this is, nor do I want to hear any reason for justification; what I do know is that it is unacceptable.
As moderators, we spend more time cleaning up flame & troll posts than working on our own community contributions. Unfounded accusations such as KANG'ing serve to drive away those valued members who try to contribute to XDA ... further lowering the quality of threads and posts on this forum.
XDA is about bringing together folks who have similar passions about mobile technology. I would have expected more maturity and professionalism. Instead, I find a thread full of inflammatory posts ... it is not constructive and serves no purpose.
While the Forum Moderator(s) take time from their busy schedule to effect cleanup and "damage control"; further detracting of this thread once it is re-opened will result in permanent holidays for those involved, rest assured that appeals will be non-negotiable. I would encourage members who have posted in this thread to reacquaint themselves with the forum rules - the best moderation is self-moderation.
Forum rules, please read!
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Edit: Thanks jerdog for fixing my post up a bit, I did this from my phone and was impressed to see it formatted nicely when I checked it on my PC hah.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
Absolutely correct. It's unacceptable and ruins it for others...
Sent from my iPhone killer.
Big shoutout to the mods who clean this crap up.
If anyone needs any help with the epic touch hit me up on Gtalk @musclehead84
The endless chit chatter and finger pointing should never go in a dev thread. this is why I love the discussion threads so the helpful threads don't get shut down because of some script kitty wants to tell a real dev what he/she has done "wrong"...
mauricehall said:
The endless chit chatter and finger pointing should never go in a dev thread. this is why I love the discussion threads so the helpful threads don't get shut down because of some script kitty wants to tell a real dev what he/she has done "wrong"...
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This really is the heart of the issue. It's great that people want to say thanks or contribute what they can in dev threads, that's what the community is about. But then for whatever reason people just can't keep their mouth shut in regards to other things. Personal matters or accusations should be in PMs or discussed with moderators if you have definitive evidence of KANGing or stealing of code and such.
The anonymity of the internet always has and always will cause issues like this.
Wow that sucks people are rediculous how could we who are here for the same reasons have such different senses of entitlement and ruin something someone worked hard in the extra time of there life to bring us?! Dang sorry and thanks devs and mods for all you do.
Any help I can lend hit [email protected]
Agreed. We definitely have seen a ton of changes since just a couple years ago. Call it maturity level or just angry at the world haters but they definitely need to read the rules and adhere to them. This is a place to come together and help each other out. An environment where we can get away from our professional life,life away from xda, to play and get our geek on. To show why Android kicks iPhone butt not only because of how the device was developed but how these killer devs make it better. I stick with Android devices because of this forum. Not to read pages upon pages of drama. I admit I have no dev skills. I would also like to thank devs for their work and thick skin. Brush the haters off and know civilized appreciative people are out there. Without you all I would be using an iPhone lol..well maybe
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Since the onslaught of Android devices the last few years, we've brought in a much younger crowd in these forums. It used to be geared more towards Windows Mobile, which had more of an "older" following. The moderators just have to face the fact that a lot of members here have yet to actually "grow" up and face the real world. As such, you're going to have bickering and fighting, just like kids in real life.
Excerpt from 'Sh*t my dad says' on Facebook
I apologize for the length, but it is relevant. and hilarious.
The dad talks first.>>
"Doesn't it bother you that people can go on the internet and call you a talentless piece of sh*t, and never have to say it to your face?," he continued.
"I don't know. Doesn't really bother me. I got my break writing down things you say. I think just karmically speaking I deserve to hear that on occassion," I said.
"I'm not talking about you. I'm speaking f**king globally. If you can't handle some pissant writing something nasty about you, then I failed as a father. What I'm trying to say is, don't it trouble you that there's a whole generation of people growing up that just say whatever the f**k they want, without any consequences?"
"I don't know, that's just the internet," I said.
"Don't you get what that means, though?"
"Not really," I replied.
"Jesus H. You're a bright kid but you sure like to wear an a**hole's costume every once in a while. It means that the future leaders of your country, I say your 'cause I'll have long decomposed, are gonna be people that have absolutely no experience with actual confrontation. Thirty years from now the President of the most powerful country in the world is going to be some little sh*t who sat at his computer and hurled insults three feet away from his mommy's tit like it was no big deal. I don't condone fighting, but when a human being understands that his or her actions might result in a giant fist up his or her a**, he or she learns a thing or two about acting before they speak. All I'm saying is, I'm glad I'm going to be dead. Also, happy birthday. That's why I called."
I've been a member now for some time however I don't post to often. I read the new policies that XDA has come clean with and would like to take a moment to express my feelings about it. Over the course of the last few months I turned to other forums; not because they were any better and the people on here were not helpful, but because of the "internal" struggles between Devs, Moderators, and Administrators. I truly didn't know what to believe and when it came down to my having to read about it within every post, I simply moved on to other forums where I felt this underlying issue was not at the forefront. I am so thankful to all the people who are involved in this site, developing ROM's and applications, moderating, and answering all the stupid and repetitive questions that (to their credit) are typically answered with kindness and direction. I think clear cut rules need to be enforced and I'm glad to see the site take on a "fair" stance with serious repercussions in place for folks that come onto the site and disgrace the people that are on here, working their butts off for people like me that are trying to learn, to understand, and who are looking for a "person" that can not only get answers, but provide inspiration to becoming more involved, educated, and contributing back to the community. To the admins of this site, keep up the great work. You've got at least one big supporter here!
dfr867 said:
I've been a member now for some time however I don't post to often. I read the new policies that XDA has come clean with and would like to take a moment to express my feelings about it. Over the course of the last few months I turned to other forums; not because they were any better and the people on here were not helpful, but because of the "internal" struggles between Devs, Moderators, and Administrators. I truly didn't know what to believe and when it came down to my having to read about it within every post, I simply moved on to other forums where I felt this underlying issue was not at the forefront. I am so thankful to all the people who are involved in this site, developing ROM's and applications, moderating, and answering all the stupid and repetitive questions that (to their credit) are typically answered with kindness and direction. I think clear cut rules need to be enforced and I'm glad to see the site take on a "fair" stance with serious repercussions in place for folks that come onto the site and disgrace the people that are on here, working their butts off for people like me that are trying to learn, to understand, and who are looking for a "person" that can not only get answers, but provide inspiration to becoming more involved, educated, and contributing back to the community. To the admins of this site, keep up the great work. You've got at least one big supporter here!
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Click to collapse
Kind words, thanks
Certainly, I've always operated in a manner similar to what is described in that (at least AFAIK), in that I take no prisoners when it comes to idiots or trolls.
I think there's an advantage to these issues not being at the forefront, but also an advantage to the other side, where there's no secret about how things work. This is a developer site, it's advantageous in a way to let developers be aware of what we stand for, which is development!
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Well, let me give you a perspective of a GIMP team member.
All the great free end-user software projects I can think of became great, because developers were communicating to users who thought along the same lines.
And it's the best way to work on a project, because you keep interacting with people and improving your work, while still belonging to yourself.
What happens when you let democracy in? Ugly mess. Suddenly people start treating you like you owe to them and should bow to their wishes.
— Hey developer, I used to use X application on Windows. I want the Y feature to be like in that app. What do you mean, it's supposed to work differently? Well, make it an option, you idiot.
— Hey developer, there is this app for Mac that's a bit like your app, except it's for a different target group, different use cases and different task applications. But I want one of its tools implemented verbatim anyway. And I want it now. Not going to? Well, I'm a user, and you should be listening to me!
That's just bull****. Please keep your democracy to yourself.
If you want some free software to change, learn to encourage, learn to make well-fitted proposals that make sense, learn to understand design decisions, but also learn to accept that the developer is the one who has the final saying, because (s)he's the one who's responsible, not you.
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Click to collapse
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
Someone must be dumb to believe those 2 words.
I say, it will not be released.. it's been +/- than 2 years now.. i got my screen shattered and usb broken.. keep waiting guys
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Click to collapse
We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
<Insert non-native English speaker disclaimer here for the grammar Nazis>
I haven't been a member here until recently, but i do appreciate and understand what you're saying. It's been an issue lately. But in fairness to the mods (here in ot and my home forum) they have been very responsive in terms of identifying those people who abuse their, shall we say, democracy. The mods have been extremely helpful and easily accessible imho. I just wish other new members like me understand what xda is about and adapt to it. As we all know, veteran members and admins/mods can only do so much...
Please give credit where credit is due..
If you can't even search how can I help you??
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand. If Admins really wanted to fix this problem, then they'd be banning like crazy, and making the forum private, but they can't do that can they?
Not trolling, just my opinion on the issue.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
trell959 said:
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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Click to collapse
I completely understand, I was just giving my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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Click to collapse
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
The state of XDA is a reflection of the average android user. As adoption rates grow there will only be more average Joes coming here for help. And they want help now dammit!
I completely agree... Now registration should be on invite only basis
- - Greetings From India
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Hmm, "Anything not related to the phones" and off-topic looked more tempting than "about xda-developers" at first glance, though i agree i might have failed here.
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen.
Now for my opinion on it all
Granted I haven't been on this site very long at all, but I'd been lurking and reading tons on here from early 2010-ish.
Whilst I agree with your point that this may not be the site it used to be, that's also a good thing.
It's showing progression and moving forward.
People who come to this site simply looking to make their phone "cool" and make it do what there friends' phones can't do, annoy each and every one of us at times. That's just something that we've got to deal with.
It's not as if this is the only site where people act like that. It's all based on the mentality of people in general.
There are those, who like us, don't just want to make our devices better, but want to actually learn how it's all done and what makes android, as a whole, work.
But there will always be those who don't care about the journey, as they just want to reach the destination.
And even though there are a ton of the latter around, creating a thread to say that the site's gone downhill because of these people, won't help in the slightest. And considering leaving this site just because of a few dicks? Leave them to it. They'll soon be shown the door if they consistently can't stick to the forum rules.
There's no sense in feeling like you have to leave or others have had to leave because of these people.
Obviously I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion, but there are better ways of doing it to be honest.
But having said that, I respect your opinion
As this thread is "about xda developers", as mentioned above that would be the correct forum for this discussion so I'll move it there.
I completely agree with the Op...
Haven't been around long, but was always fascinated with technology and had a certain respect for those who made possible the things I thought wouldn't be possibly done...
I've heard plenty about the good ole XDA, of how devs used to work with harmony, how they worked because THEY themselves wanted to...and not because of "helppp, my wifi broke, plz fix asap"...
But my bad luck, I wasn't there to witness any of it...
Well the mods and admins know of this issue, and there's only so much one could do to solve it...
Apart from making XDA invite only, and GTFO'ing every noob already present, there seems to be no practical reason that I can think of...
There have been other rather innovative attempts at tackling this noob problem; (as that's what seems to be the root cause of this problem);
Some say we should raise the 10 post limit, some say we put tests/checks to make sure new users understand the purpose of XDA, some say we do aptitude tests to classify users as "devs" and "non devs" and some say to educate everyone already present and yet to come...
I say that we could all of this and still be left wondering what possibly could be done...
You see, part of this problem comes from human nature...
Everyone wants the most utility from the least effort...
They want the best, but aren't ready to give their best...
As smartphones become more and more common & more and more "smart", the people get lazier and dumber...
There is no possible humane approach to making people work for their own self...
You could help them out, point them in the right direction...but for every one person that you help out, there'd be 10 standing with the same problem expecting a personalized response...
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with you enough. I'm absolutely sick of all the hate mail that I get saying stuff like "xyz doesn't work u suck" and "hurry up and add abc to this!".
Seriously, many of the members here are complete a$$e$ that don't give a crap about the work devs do and just want the best for their phone. And if something doesnt work or a feature is not added yet, they start complaining and flaming devs. One of the great dev teams for my phone actually stopped development because of all the hate mail and ungrateful members who complained about their work. On Twitter a person even told the team "you should be embarrassed as dev team" when he asked a question that was answered at least 15 times!
I really hope that the spirit of collaborating and learning comes back to xda....
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
a.cid said:
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The mods have said before, and I don't think that their answer will change...mod rights shall not be given to any user, whether limited or unlimited...
Rd's get rights to close their own threads, while Rc's have such rights only in Rc Chat, and not anywhere else...
Idk about Rd's, but they have turned down our request for the same...
If you need thread maintainence/cleanup, the only option is to report a post, and request cleanup...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
reinbeau said:
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
Rick_1995 said:
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This shouldn't be the case, all reports should be actioned in a timely manner irrespective of the forums activity level. If you feel a report has gone unactioned for too long (give us at least 24-48hrs ) then either contact the appropriate forum moderator directly or a senior.
As for reporting multiple posts, to put it simply, don't. Just report and mention that some cleaning may be required.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
Henry_01 said:
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
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Click to collapse
I can assure you, reporting posts IS the answer. Well, part of it anyway....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....