Related
Sorry this is so long but I feel strongly about this.
I too have few posts as anyone can see. I joined in Sep '06 but have been an avid reader of this forum since my company bought me a Siemens SX66 several years ago.
While I have noticed a marked decline in the quality of posts on this site, I have also seen an amazing increase in the quality of products the senior people have put out.
I think this fact coupled with the rising popularity of Windows Mobile and HTC products is inviting more and more people who would be otherwise too scared to try flashing their expensive gear to feel comfortable enough to give it a go.
Personally, I consider this a hobbyist site and as such, while the senior people will only gain experience and become more adept at their hobby, the noobs will continue to be noobs with the same noob questions, just more of them.
If this site is ever to work as an open hobbyist site, then I think it behooves everyone to step back and take a breath and think about what that goal will require.
1) Seniors - as your skills improve, and you work in this hobby more and more, you will inevitably see more and more of the same questions. Have mercy on the noobs. Truly some are lazy leechers others are perhaps "just getting their feet wet." Everyone has to start somewhere and sometimes that "start" begins with what you may think is a dumb question but is considered valid to the user asking it.
2) Noobs - think about your questions before you ask them. Realize that you are getting the benefits of senior people in this hobby and treat them accordingly. They are doing more to give you free "customer service" than the companies that you gave your money to in the first place.
3) Everyone - I see this problem as having many smaller pieces that perhaps can be improved to help create a better environment.
a) The built-in vBulletin search function sucks arse. Someone posted how to search this site using Google. Perhaps removing the built-in search would get people more familiar with a better search tool and perhaps return more relevant entries.
b) Pay to play - If you are a serious hobbyist then paying a subscription fee to gain access to the hard work others have done should be worth it. You can't or won't pay then you are on your own.
c) Private or Tiered forum for more Senior folks. Entry could be by application/invite allowing a senior moderator to evaluate the applicants quality of participation first. This would also force noobs to start contributing to the group versus just leeching.
Lastly, I have seens several posts where it is obvious that English is not their first or even learned language. I have read the wiki for my device and I have had to read parts several times to understand them. I think for many to whom the language might be a barrier to participation a little extra patience should be granted.
This is an absolutely awesome forum. I have been a benefactor of the work others have done and have several devices that are much more usable, enjoyable and longer lived because of this site. It would be a shame for this forum to crumble under the weight of the hostility that has been present the last few months.
Please, let's all find a way to keep this site useful, friendly and enjoyable for all of its participants.
Some good points but I personally don't have any problems with the search as you have got the options to search the forums, narrowing down your options, and the search this thread to really go deeper.
What I have seen on other forums is - like you say in point c - a lockdown of specific groups until you've got a certain number of posts/been around for a while/been approved so that it can be established that you're familiar with the forum and don't just post crap/leech stuff. Maybe something like that could be employed.
But let's face it, the quality of releases lately has brought far more attention to this forum rather than those who would come here because they knew what they were doing.
Just my thoughts.
If people are offended by Senior members when they ask a stupid question, then they can go somewhere else. HoFo is a great place for beginners. And since ROM flashing isn't a task fot for a beginner, there is no place here for those members.
Sure, I've asked stupid questions, been confused, etc., but I normally seek out a solution. Many n00bs (as they're commonly called) just ask without searching - and that's often obvious to those who are willing to read a 55-page thread.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the ROM kitchen. Period.
I agree with most of what you say.
I have been on this forum for more than 4 years now and it's been the best forum I have ever used to play around with my "toys".
Noobs are noobs and I even ask silly questions sometimes but I think that this site should remain the same.... It's a gold mine for every person like me wanting to play around and get the best out of his toy.
Long life to this forum
I've been on so many forums for so long and all of the ones that are any good have these very same issues. I recently read a post on a forum of another open source project that I absolutely love (Handbrake) and I think the post you can find here by one of their chief developers has some correlation to this current situation.
If you're too lazy to mosie over to the link...the gist of the post is that open source projects are just that. They are open sourced. That doesn't mean one has carte blanche to ask for help on this or that, to ask for this feature or that feature, to whine and complain, to moan and groan, or to trash somebody's work when it doesn't work like you want it to. It means that a usually small but dedicated group of individuals got together and tried to find a solution to a problem that they had. In the case of this post...it's about open source software...but I think you could say the same thing about ROM cooking here. There is enough information here that if you see or try something that doesn't work for you...try to fix it yourself (or as many have stated...search and see if it's already been fixed by someone). But in the end...I don't think you'll ever stamp out noob crap entirely. Think about it...just walk down the street or turn on your television or flip on your radio...how many idiots do you see or hear? Trust me...we are far outnumbered... But maybe...with a little help...we can at least edumacate em a little bit.
richy240 said:
If people are offended by Senior members when they ask a stupid question, then they can go somewhere else. HoFo is a great place for beginners. And since ROM flashing isn't a task fot for a beginner, there is no place here for those members.
Sure, I've asked stupid questions, been confused, etc., but I normally seek out a solution. Many n00bs (as they're commonly called) just ask without searching - and that's often obvious to those who are willing to read a 55-page thread.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the ROM kitchen. Period.
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Totally agree on that. Root of the problem seems to be low propensity to read given by large amounts of useless threads/posts, which makes it harder to search as well. By ignoring the reading/searching phase there is even more clutter being made.
The procedure how to get the info you need:
READ > SEARCH > THINK > POST
Sequence is important in that case!
Same applies to posts made entirely in language other than English > these are useless for vast majority of readers, please consider sending a PM when talking to your nationals.
'nuff said. Long live the XDA-Dev!
I think most of the gripes are about pointless posts eg, "whoohoo!", "cool", "downloading now" that just take up space and make getting to the valuable posts more difficult. Then there are the noob questions that are simple to answer but extremely annoying when repeating many many times. I am a noob to this forum and this phone but not about computers and porgramming. I have also made a donation to jasjamming and wish him the best. My proposal to end some of the madness is to seperate out the type of posts, which seem to be threefold 1. appreciation/useless banter 2. noob questions/simple questions 3. decent and high quality posts that make xda dev a great forum. So one thread about technical stuff that will contain good and useful info and another being the noob questions useless banter. Maybe split the noob questions and appreciation thread and forget about one or the other. This will make the mods life a lot easier and make reading the forum a lot more palatable and organise the threads in a meaningful way. Again sorry to see jasjamming go so soon after joining this forum. Hope he comes back at some stage.
KarhU said:
Totally agree on that. Root of the problem seems to be low propensity to read given by large amounts of useless threads/posts, which makes it harder to search as well. By ignoring the reading/searching phase there is even more clutter being made.
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Yeah. The problem is compounding itself. I think we should continue to offend the n00bs that way they go away and quit asking stupid questions.
Perhaps creating/moving this and other hardcore forums to private/access controlled area would help.
HoFo is part of the trouble but so is Google and search bots which read public forums. That brings a lot of new readers/noobs.
I've been on sites that have both public and private fora, and the Google/non approved members can't get at the private side which helps a lot.
Just so long as I'm a member of the private side.
Personally i think this forum would work better if there were more forums, say inside the hermes mobile 6 one there was one for each rom. Then if users were encouraged to post new topics for different faults the stupid pointless topics could just be ignored and end up pages back or even deleted while the usefull topics would stay near the top with only relavent content inside.
Anyway thats not for me to decide and just to note i hardly ever feel the need to post cos i've always found a fix for my problems by reading. It might take a few mins longer to find an answer than to start a post but it saves you looking stupid.
I fully support the idea of a subscription to the forums. I'm a member of another subscription-based forum, and it leads to more productive posts and queries, better quality of member base, and an intelligent quorum. That site is $9.95 for a lifetime membership, less a ban of course -- and I find that more than fair.
I don't post much either, I just soak up knowledge here. I try not to ask questions unless absolutely necessary, and instead reap the benefits from the great minds at work..
I love the forum and I think we all agree on this point. I am a moderator on several other PDA related sites. I know first hand how hard it can be to try and get the new folks to use the search function and read The Bold Print but I have found with my experience that using post counts to advance members to hidden forums only invites spam and useless posts. I can also say that wading through 80 sum pages of "thank you's" and "questions that where answered in the first post but I just looked for the link to download and didn't read" posts, is long and quite aggravating. Also trying to use the search function for things like finding a fix to an MMS problem is near to imposable. What I have seen here recently that I like is when something is released like a new WM6 build, there could be 2 treads started one for real questions (Advanced) and issues and one for the new folks to ask there new folk questions (Beginners). Not restricting access to the "Advance" tread, just the ability to post. I don't mind helping the new folks a little because I was new once. I can also say that I read information on this site for 4 days before I attempted to flash a new rom to my device. ( was scared to death ) and some of the questions the new folks asked, I also wanted the answer too. Lots of times some senior member would help them with a link or advice and this helped me also. I think if anything you should have to be a member here for say 3 or 4 days before you are allowed to post. Then maybe a week or two before you could post in the "Advanced" threads. This would hopefully send more new folks eager to find the answers to there questions, into the forums using the search and reading the comment of others a little more closely.
Just my thoughts
JD
I am new here and have refrained from posting until now. I have been using jj's WM VI 2.0 for a couple of days now (best so far) and must say that I find what is going on here to be quite annoying. My reason for being annoyed is because I have had my 8525 for several months now and have recently become quite bored with it, awaiting the release of new devices so I could have a new toy. Well jasjamming changed that with a couple rom updates.
All I am saying is for all of the noobs here including myself, "beggars cant be choosers" If the people that generously make these rom updates and advice available want us to do something in order to make this equitable for them, then we need to do as they wish without question. What is so difficult about this? Especially since it really doesn't seem like there asking much in return.
Just think about it, from what I see we all eagerly await each and every new release and now people are upset like me because we like having access to these updates and now we don't. I just think it is wasteful to disrupt such a wonderful arrangement.
Just my .02 but I really enjoy this site and would hate to see it change.
On a side note... I really enjoy this site so for all parties involved in creating/ maintaining this sight, many thanks!
Thanks button?
I will now throw my 2 cents in as well. I too have not posted much, but have managed to upgrade the ROM on my Hermes a few times without having to seek "professional help". I think we all appreciate the effrorts of the few that provide the rewards for the many. I used to be a SuperMod on a SonyEricsson modding site (before I found the Windows Mobile joy).
I have seen a "Thanks Button" used quite effectively - I think it is in the newer releases of vBulletin. It cuts a lot of the crap. Also, I would support a "no post for 10 days" and "read only, except by invitation" threads.
If you can express gratitude simply, have to read and learn for 10 days (and you KNOW they won't wait to try the flash) and get to read what the Seniors and Mods are saying and download the fruits of their labors, but cannot interfere, I think that would raise the quality of the experience for everyone. Sorry I went so long - I love XDA and want to see it continue to dominate.
PS: It is funny to see someone with the nick "poopmongrel" lamenting the low quality of the forum participants - ;-) That isn't meant to be mean, just funny!
richy240 said:
Yeah. The problem is compounding itself. I think we should continue to offend the n00bs that way they go away and quit asking stupid questions.
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Does that really work? Or do the n00bs just argue back? It seems recently they will just start arguing that "I did search, you *expletive*" or something like that.
If there were a way to rate individual posts like Digg and Slashdot, then you could set a ratings threshold (like view all rated > -1) and not even see the n00b posts that other people flagged unless you specifically click to expand the hidden post.
chenga said:
Does that really work? Or do the n00bs just argue back? It seems recently they will just start arguing that "I did search, you *expletive*" or something like that.
If there were a way to rate individual posts like Digg and Slashdot, then you could set a ratings threshold (like view all rated > -1) and not even see the n00b posts that other people flagged unless you specifically click to expand the hidden post.
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I don't know... Probably not. I was really just talking out of my ass. But when someone answers like that, they obviously shouldn't expect an accurate answer. If someone said that to me after answering a question, I wouldn't give them the time of day.
Wasn't everybody a n00b at one time?
It would be a shame to 'close the forum down' to noobs. There's a first for everything. And -yes!- noobs can ask stupid questions, but you could just ignore them. I've read some good suggestions reading the threads complaining about the newbies on this forum. ("thank you button", "noob area" and "a timeslot between downloading/registering" eg.)
Without this forum I'm pretty sure my Hermes would still run on WM5 since there's no real alternative to this forum. The senior members and chefs provide information (at least I) could not find anywhere else. Like many junior members (I guess) I spend the most time reading and not posting. Reading and learning. So getting 'senior' by just posting will not improve the forum quality.
To bad some (a) chef(s) are just so fed up they don't share their work anymore, but I can understand. People should be more gratefull for their hard work. Especially if you do not have the skills to cook a rom yourself!
I think the problem is more than just asking questions, even basic ones. It is the attitude of some users who seem to expect the contributors of the ROMs to support them. As a software developer myself, I've experienced many such types who think that just because they downloaded your software for free, they are entitled to your support. I believe it is this sort of "stupidity" and arrogance that really gets the goat of those who work hard to contribute something.
In this case, the fault isn't merely one of tolerance, it is one of attitude. If a guy comes in and gets free stuff from you, and then turns back and demand you fix their machine, while bad-mouthing you - surely you can see how this will make the whole enterprise un-worthwhile for the contributor. Not only are they not getting any tangible remuneration for their work, they are now having to put up with such arrogance. Now, who in their right mind would want to continue contributing in a community that is unappreciative (though arguably there will always be those who are appreciative).
The key then is to keep the unappreciative out until they learn some respect and appreciation. When they learn that what they're getting is not a right but a privilege, out of the goodwill of the contributors. If they are not happy, they can go elsewhere and not use the product. If they're sincere, then they should make the effort to learn. Regardless of the complaints of how hard it is to use the search function (how hard can it be??). In this case the onus is NOT on the contributors but on the end-user.
I see this kind of scenario happening:-
1. Newbie hears about WM6 and thinks its so cool.
2. Pesters friend for link and ends up here.
3. Get excited at the level of activity and prospect of getting something for free.
4. Get frustrated because they don't know where to start.
5. Post basic questions about which is the best ROM etc.
6. Decides to go with the "best" ROM.
7. Bricks the machine or finds a bug or loses some features.
8. Get frustrated and angry and vents at the ROM chefs (or Olipro.
9. Tries to read site for the first time but too lazy to work through the posts (it does take time but that is expected.)
10. Pester others to help them unbrick their machine.
11. Unbricks machine and starts again with another ROM variant.
12. Cycle repeats itself.
I'm not saying that all newbies are like this. Many lurkers actually read through all the related posts. The problem we're facing has to do with those who want the benefits without having to spend the time reading and researching and learning some general knowledge about the ROM flashing process. To make things worse, these same types usually have attitudes of self-righteous indignation which makes them a pain to tolerate. This is the kind of person you want to keep out of the community. IMO.
Daniel
swtaltima said:
I am new here and have refrained from posting until now. I have been using jj's WM VI 2.0 for a couple of days now (best so far) and must say that I find what is going on here to be quite annoying. My reason for being annoyed is because I have had my 8525 for several months now and have recently become quite bored with it, awaiting the release of new devices so I could have a new toy. Well jasjamming changed that with a couple rom updates.
All I am saying is for all of the noobs here including myself, "beggars cant be choosers" If the people that generously make these rom updates and advice available want us to do something in order to make this equitable for them, then we need to do as they wish without question. What is so difficult about this? Especially since it really doesn't seem like there asking much in return.
Just think about it, from what I see we all eagerly await each and every new release and now people are upset like me because we like having access to these updates and now we don't. I just think it is wasteful to disrupt such a wonderful arrangement.
Just my .02 but I really enjoy this site and would hate to see it change.
On a side note... I really enjoy this site so for all parties involved in creating/ maintaining this sight, many thanks!
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I have to agree here. What ticks me off is the fact that alot of people here come in, flash a ROM without reading or researching then DEMAND a solution...not once...not twice...but sometimes three and four times in a short time span.
I have no right to DEMAND someone to fix something that either (1) I caused; (2) I didn't read enough to see that it was a known issue and flashed anyway; (3) a known issue with an open source software on a DEVELOPER's sight with I am NOT a developer.
What I see the issue to be is ingratitude, sense of entitlement and tender emotions. If you're feelings are going to get hurt then you shouldn't post. The developers here don't owe anybody here a thing. Plain and simple.
Politically correct? No. Do I care? No.
Jim
I Love Xda-developers.com!
Spread The Peace!
Hi Kyphur,
Happy easter all of you!
hope you have nice easter .
Will 0.3 will be released this weekend?
AdoMad
STOP This at once!
If you only READ before you post, stop posting questions repeatedly!
0.3 Will be ready when it's ready and thats it!
yea man just have some patience.
it will some come and we will have some fun ;-)
happy easter to you all.
Okay, this thread is going to go no-where but to some possible bashing.
Could it be closed?
He asked a question... He got his answer, I dont see any reason to argue or cause any grief on this matter whatsoever.
STOP it at once !
I suggest to close this and to ban the noobs who ask this dummies questions !
This Forum
I've been a long time visitor and active member of many forums. However, I only recently have had the fortune of discovering this wonderful forum where unbelievable things are being done. This forum is beneficial to me via my Cingular 8525 and I greatly appreciate the plethora of knowledge contained within this forum and those that help by graciously making this knowledge available to others.
That being said, I cannot believe the despicable elitist attitude of many of the members. I understand and am willing to overlook the use of the term noob or newbie; however, I do not understand the amount of belittling and the attitude that is allowed to propagate in this forum and find it incomprehensible. Not only does it degrade an otherwise amazing forum, it speaks volumes about those charged with moderating the forum.
In my opinion, everyone here would benefit from a dramatic shift in the level of tolerance of this behavior. Furthermore, the moderators should reevaluate their policies and consider changing their stance on this issue.
dallen said:
That being said, I cannot believe the despicable elitist attitude of many of the members. I understand and am willing to overlook the use of the term noob or newbie; however, I do not understand the amount of belittling and the attitude that is allowed to propagate in this forum and find it incomprehensible. Not only does it degrade an otherwise amazing forum, it speaks volumes about those charged with moderating the forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the people here are elitists. I believe they are tired. Tired of the same questions being posted over and over. This thread would have been answered with the search function.
This is by far one of the best technical forums around. These forums were created to support development, not for the average phone hobbyists. Everything here should be considered "beta". Unfortunately people think everything is going to work 100% of the time. This will not be the case.
I think the moderators are doing a pretty good job. I do believe that more posts should get removed before the flame job starts.
Long story short....XDA is a great resource...give it a chance. I believe you would have really liked XDA a couple of months ago before "Hofo migration" started aka the "8525 effect". I hope the forums will return to the concise and straight forward technical and developmental forums that they were a couple of months ago.
tco said:
I don't think the people here are elitists. I believe they are tired. Tired of the same questions being posted over and over. This thread would have been answered with the search function.
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tco,
Thanks for replying. I agree with everything that you said. The reason that I highlighted the above is because I take issue with a portion of what you say. If people are tired of answering "simple" questions that they feel could be answered with a simple seach, then why don't they show their diapproval by not answering and allow these types of questions to either go unanswered, where they will quickly fall to the bottom of the message board, or better yet, allow someone that doesn't mind answering these types of question to answer them?
I've sifted through 70 pages of posting after posting just to find the answers to some relatively simple questions that I've had (this in spite of utilizing the advanced searching features). I could have saved a bunch of my time if I weren't so afraid of being chastised for asking a question that has already been answered in some 80-page thread.
I think people should be free to ask questions without fear of being criticized. Maybe a special section of the forum ought to either be dedicated to these types of questions, or a section of the forum ought to be restricted to "senior members." Either way, I strongly feel that the ones that deserve to be harassed are not those with questions, but those that feel that they are too good to simply offer an answer and choose to belittle the asker.
dallen said:
tco,
Thanks for replying. I agree with everything that you said. The reason that I highlighted the above is because I take issue with a portion of what you say. If people are tired of answering "simple" questions that they feel could be answered with a simple seach, then why don't they show their diapproval by not answering and allow these types of questions to either go unanswered, where they will quickly fall to the bottom of the message board, or better yet, allow someone that doesn't mind answering these types of question to answer them?
I've sifted through 70 pages of posting after posting just to find the answers to some relatively simple questions that I've had (this in spite of utilizing the advanced searching features). I could have saved a bunch of my time if I weren't so afraid of being chastised for asking a question that has already been answered in some 80-page thread.
I think people should be free to ask questions without fear of being criticized. Maybe a special section of the forum ought to either be dedicated to these types of questions, or a section of the forum ought to be restricted to "senior members." Either way, I strongly feel that the ones that deserve to be harassed are not those with questions, but those that feel that they are too good to simply offer an answer and choose to belittle the asker.
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Click to collapse
Keep in mind you sifted through 70 or 80 pages of posting because they were so many of the same questions being asked. The truth is I am also tired of going through 80 pages to stay of the up to date. In the past 24hrs things have improved compare to the past 4-8 weeks (less postings and more reading, testing and reporting).
dallen said:
I've been a long time visitor and active member of many forums. However, I only recently have had the fortune of discovering this wonderful forum where unbelievable things are being done. This forum is beneficial to me via my Cingular 8525 and I greatly appreciate the plethora of knowledge contained within this forum and those that help by graciously making this knowledge available to others.
That being said, I cannot believe the despicable elitist attitude of many of the members. I understand and am willing to overlook the use of the term noob or newbie; however, I do not understand the amount of belittling and the attitude that is allowed to propagate in this forum and find it incomprehensible. Not only does it degrade an otherwise amazing forum, it speaks volumes about those charged with moderating the forum.
In my opinion, everyone here would benefit from a dramatic shift in the level of tolerance of this behavior. Furthermore, the moderators should reevaluate their policies and consider changing their stance on this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their responses are in line and they behold the ability to react however they would like. How would you like it if you put xxx hours building and testing for 100 people to come in and ask the same question over and over, they don't appreciate it 1 bit. don't blame jas for saying **** it and not wanting to publicly release any more, yeah that means I won't see any of his roms, but I would have done the same with the reactions that were seen with 2.0. The site is called xda DEVELOPERS for a reason. this isn't the site for someone that knows **** about their phone but wants to "look cool to their friends" the sooner this is realized the sooner the forum can get back to a civilized manner.
CUSTEL said:
Their responses are in line and they behold the ability to react however they would like.
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Then that means that we are also free to "react however [we] like" to their reactions. I, for one, see these "reactions" as immature, unjustified, and despicable. From now on, I will exercise my "ability to react however like" by calling people out for acting childish.
CUSTEL said:
The site is called xda DEVELOPERS for a reason. this isn't the site for someone that knows **** about their phone but wants to "look cool to their friends" the sooner this is realized the sooner the forum can get back to a civilized manner.
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If this site were intended to be solely for "developers," then registrations would be limited only to that class of members.
dallen said:
Then that means that we are also free to "react however [we] like" to their reactions. I, for one, see these "reactions" as immature, unjustified, and despicable. From now on, I will exercise my "ability to react however like" by calling people out for acting childish.
If this site were intended to be solely for "developers," then registrations would be limited only to that class of members.
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That is the most ignorant thing I have ever read.
First thing... this thread is being locked because the original poster did NOT need to start a thread like this.. This is something he could have read in another thread or pm'd kyphur for...
2nd thing is how the thread was hijacked yet again by people complaining, whining, sharing there opinions on something that wasnt related to the topic... there is already a topic for this that is open to everyone... the mods are taking our stance and working on what we feel should be acceptable.. This sub-fora has done a complete 180 from what it was like earlier this week...
@dallen ... your choice to speak out on the matter here in this thread where it wasnt appropriate and doesnt make it any better than the ones before you.. like i mentioned above there is a thread for this, so before you quickly tell others they were out of line maybe you should look at yourself...
@custel yes this was designed to be a developers forum, however due to the growth of HTC popularity the site has transformed into more than that... just read whats on the homepage of xda-developers.com
Welcome to xda-developers.com
This site is about certain PDA-phones, made by a secretive firm called HTC in Taiwan. Their makers named them 'Wallaby', 'Himalaya', 'Blue Angel', 'Wizard' and 'TyTN', but almost nobody knows them by those names. The mobile provider O2 sells them under the brand-name 'XDA', and that's what we had in our hands first. They're also known as Qtek, MDA, SX-56, Hermes and many, many other names.
Since we develop software for it, we need information, and nobody seemed eager or ready to give us what we needed. So we 'reverse-engineered' the devices, found a lot of information, and shared it with the world. But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
We hope that you will enjoy this site and find it as useful as we do. We encourage you to donate or otherwise support this site. Of course absolutely all proceeds from donations will benefit this community.
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Although some members may get p*ssed maybe one phone forum at a time. Yeah those who have to wait till you get to their phone may not be happy but it should be less chaotic if the thread is limited to a particular phone.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
My suggestion:
1. Be specific in your post. If you don't want us asking questions to which you've already composed answers, please post the questions you have so we don't repeat them. We cannot read your mind when you say, "I have your questions so don't ask the same ones."
2. Designate a moderator solely to that post. Probably not feasible, but if the moderator can make it primary focus, it can be kept civil and clean. A little work, but it could help the community.
3. While moderating, do not delete people's posts. If a question is posted that is being considered by SamsungJohn, simply replace the text with "Question is being addressed" or "Content does not benefit thread"
People are extremely disappointed in the whole communication realm amongst Samsung and Sprint so of course they're going to be a little raw. That's why it's extremely important to be VERY SPECIFIC in what you have and what you are looking for.
Next post example: "Here is the list of questions I will be addressing soon: 1) 2) 3), etc. Outside of those questions, are there any others you'd like addressed?"
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
daryelv said:
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
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Click to collapse
I would doubt SamsungJohn is going to answer questions on the fly. He needs to time I guess to see if he can answer such questions. Actually I don't recall him saying he was going to answer any questions. He just wants us to ask questions that would benefit Galaxy S phones. Bug or defects that the phone may have.
Probably would be best to put it in the hands of moderators. They can weed out the repeat questions and all the where is froyo questions and maybe just pm a clean list of questions instead of having a thread that's gonna go straight to hell.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
othan1 has the best suggestion so far.
Unfortunately, with the gigantic amount of negative feeling about Samsung right now, I don't think its wise to do any Q&A before a Froyo source is released. Thats when technical questions will be much more relevant.
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
PUT OUT OR GET OUT.
STOP THE BULLSHIIT
I HOPE THERE IS A CLASS ACTION SUIT For producing a piece of crap phone that doesn't work and then not producing fixed or updates.
dwallersv said:
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
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Amen...... But I would have to say that him being here and wanting to work with the community IS a huge announcement. I hope that we can all try and see the possibilities here, as opposed to tying him to the nearest tree and crucifying him. Is xda not about the free exchange of ideas as a community? I hope on the next attempt we can be civil, and actually accomplish something
This whole interaction failed because Samsung still has no idea what they are doing:
1. SamsungJohn says he has been watching the forums
2. If he has been watching, WHY does he need anyone to post technical questions
3. The problems with all the Galaxy S phones are well documented - here and with Samsung
4. Samsung offers no real support and so they think a forum will help them organize suppport issues
5. Samsung is more concerned with selling product then fixing issues
6. He offered nothing from Samsung to start this - Samsung should be extending an olive branch (the technical equivalent anyway) but they gave us nothing
7. Samsung changed their message from "Froyo by End of year" to "coming whenever"
8. Customers have lost faith and are moving on
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.
Most of us will not let ourselves be fooled twice. I am tired of technology companies promising fixes and not delivering.
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
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And that is why they posted here. So they can spread the 'outreach' news.
They know the issues. They've known the issues since August. Coming here and asking us what the issues are without even hinting anything will annoy most of the Galaxy S userbase.
Add to that, the 'huge' announcement was a thread to ask us what the issues with the phone are?
Me thinks John needs to be a bit more careful with the words he chooses. Very poor choice.
Huge would be telling us that 2.3 is on the way or we are all getting free upgrades to the Nexus S. Thats huge.
Telling us you are a liason from Samsung trying to bridge the communications gap is not huge. Thats to be expected from a professional company such as yours. Do no expect us to jump for joy over things you are expected to do.
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
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Click to collapse
retweet this:
http://twitter.com/#!/vorathe/status/37634312098693120
I really think before SamsungJohn posts a Q&A thread he really needs to lay out ground rules specific to what he can talk about and what he can't.But really I think that without being sble to ask about future updates like froyo and other fixes for our phone there really is no point in even putting up a Q&A thread because the only stuff we all care about we are told not to ask about so it really is a pointless jesture.Othan1 pretty much hit the nail on the head with his post of suggestions but knowing what can be asked along with that would go a long ways to keeping things on track and not turning the thread into a mess of pissed off people.
Seems like all SamsungJohn posts have been deliberately 'hidden' from view. They all started in the general forum, one got moved to off-topic and the other one is in the about xda-developer.com forum?
WTH is going on guys?
next one will be in the winmo section... NOBODY will find it there!!! muwahahaha!
My concern here is that the forum is being broken up, into elite users, and peasants. Those of us who aren't part of the elite group, are being treated like don't deserve to know whats going on. Either everyone has an equal say, and have access to the same information, or we might as well switch to iphone (because Apple doesn't let us know what's going on either).
This whole matter is being treated by both parties incredibly poorly. I understand it's a big move for both parties, but it's disturbing that a move which is apparently related to improving transparency, simultaneously is being done behind closed doors !
Made a new post in general: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=958106
it'll either get locked/removed or one of the mods will provide an answer.
All,
I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
C0mbe
"In a perfect world..."
github said:
"In a perfect world..."
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This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
Rule with an Iron Fist!!!
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here @XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.
C0mbe said:
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
github said:
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.
It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
github said:
At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
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Click to collapse
No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
github said:
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
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Click to collapse
Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
github said:
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
TheRomMistress said:
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
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That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cajunflavoredbob said:
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said
Thanks. I actually moved this into it's own post/question, as it is kind of offtopic from what OP was discussing.
This is in reference to the NilsP/Joelz petition threads that were closed by willverduzco, and the resulting lashing that he posted here. While there were a VERY small minority of posts that might have crossed a line of respect, an overwhelming number of the posts in there were simply people showing support for the developers that deserve that recognition.
I find it disturbing that the moderation team can't seem to take some criticism here. This is a community, and if the mod/admin team can't at least listen to the members of that community without mocking them or belittling them as was done in this thread, then this place is truly lost. Which is sad because it was (and in a lot of regards still is) a great place for android users/devs to get together.
I'm sure this thread will too be locked, and I'll take my whipping of the cat-o-nine-tails for daring to challenge the overlords, but this is really a sad state of affairs.
"iron fist" lol.
yeah, i'm sure this will be locked too.
badogg said:
This is in reference to the NilsP/Joelz petition threads that were closed by willverduzco, and the resulting lashing that he posted here. While there were a VERY small minority of posts that might have crossed a line of respect, an overwhelming number of the posts in there were simply people showing support for the developers that deserve that recognition.
I find it disturbing that the moderation team can't seem to take some criticism here. This is a community, and if the mod/admin team can't at least listen to the members of that community without mocking them or belittling them as was done in this thread, then this place is truly lost. Which is sad because it was (and in a lot of regards still is) a great place for android users/devs to get together.
I'm sure this thread will too be locked, and I'll take my whipping of the cat-o-nine-tails for daring to challenge the overlords, but this is really a sad state of affairs.
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i understand you are upset that nilsp did not get his badge for "reconized developer" and im not trying to say he does not deserve it (because is one of the great devs still on here).
but the way you decided to handle it was not good. posting it in the development thread to get it seen more is not the way to go. if you feel like he deserves the badge, then voice your opinion by pming Developer Committee please dont try to start a war on here. it will only end badly. we are already have enough wrong posting going on by people mistaking this as an INC 2 thread. please dont add to it.
if you dont like the rules then go to a different site. there are some of us on here that still want to keep order and help others and not make this a flame site.
*i am ready to be flamed now*
Dudes he gave us a proper way to appeal, which I personally didn't know about. Its not as epic as "challenging overlords", they just want us to follow the rules.
This "iron fist" thing has been talked about for weeks. There was a huge article on it in the portal about the sense of entitlement, people thinking for some reason that donations = labor contracts, the devs being frustrated by users *****ing, among other things. The easiest way for them to circumvent it is to have a zero tolerance policy, so they're not exactly gonna be nice about a whole lot right now. My advice to yall is to just let it go and be cool.
They run this place, we don't, period. Lets just enjoy what it does for our gadgets guys... They obviously are going through a rough time, the least we can do is make it easy on them.
Everyone needs to remember this is only a website... mods I respect you but seriously IT'S A WEBSITE... I'm 20 and have more sense than most people on here this is all childlike and uncalled for... this is a community not a hierarchy...
sent from my phone using ALL CAPS RAGE
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
wildstang83 said:
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
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I wasn't all bent until I read their responses. That is where I had a problem. The way that they dealt with this was disconcerting. All we wanted to do was to show some support for a couple of peeps, and if we did it wrong then educate us without being jerks about it.
Your thread is gone.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
lol stang, i think they deleted your thread.
it's the "i'm taking my ball and going home!" mentality all over again here at XDA.
wildstang83 said:
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
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3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
How dare you abuse the authority they gave you. Lol
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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Click to collapse
Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*READS RULES*
Ok, so that makes sense for the one that was in the development forum, but what about the petition thread? I don't see anywhere in those rules that say that we aren't allowed to show support for another member/dev or question the decisions of the mods.
Sure there was probably a couple of members that might have pushed it a little far, but I don't think any of it was really over the line (but admittedly I didn't read every single post and I'm not going to) - just voicing displeasure about it, and showing support.
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But making jokes and clowning is acceptable, as long as you're a mod, right? Go read the thread. They were laughing and clowning at the first 2 guys that posted about this. Then I called them out on it and all of a sudden they're serious about it. Then i get this comment from some idiot...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276306&page=239
WHERE'S THE IRON FIST AT? I'll take my ban as long as this dude does too...
Zeus... God of Awesome!
wildstang83 said:
Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im all for keeping the devs here, but posting a flame thread is not the way. (im also not stopping you from voicing you opinion if you do it the correct way.) it just adds fuel to the fire. that's something we don't need.
"If they disagree with a moderator's actions, users CAN complain (not in the forums, only via Private Message). We are putting systems in place to ensure that mods ask for advice from the team in complex situations. Senior mods and administrators will do everything we can to ensure that moderators wield their power for good, not evil. Fair but firm. Firm but fair. It's a balance we strive for daily, and this is a responsibility we all take seriously."
if you feel that he was wronged the do the right thing by pming the mods or the committee. then threatening the mods after you thread was closed is still not the way to get your voice out.
(thank you by the way for serving our country.)
cvbcbcmv said:
As a moderator of another forum. I have some experience with this stuff. It doesn't have nearly 4,000,000 members, but it has almost 30,000, it's a big chunk. About 6 moderators to handle it, and really only 2 keep up with it (me being one of them), the others log on about once a month. First of all, I don't like closing threads, it's just ruining freedom of speech, which is kind of the whole point of a forum, if I have to I'll edit every single post, but I like to let people speak their mind. I also never mention anything somebody did, even if a name isn't mentioned, anything someone in particular did. In the mods post he said about the member who is threatening to leave, well, I'll admit it, that was me, and anyone could have found that out. BTW, I'm not the first one to do that. I would never do that to one of my members. I hope this doesn't get edited or removed. I'm not whining, I'm just saying my opinion. Nothing wrong, nothing bad. Just saying it. Also, I never come back at my members in a mean or insulting way unless they come at me on a personal level. Not a moderating job level, but an actual personal level. I think it's wrong to go to your members and tell them they are just whiny little crybabies who need to grow up.
Sincerely,
cvbcbcmv
P.S I'm not complaining, I wouldn't fill out a formal complaint, that's not my point of this post. I just want to state my opinion.
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Bravo man. There was a lot of intolerance all around this issue, but I think the moderating really went down the toilet on it.
cvbcbcmv said:
As a moderator of another forum. I have some experience with this stuff. It doesn't have nearly 4,000,000 members, but it has almost 30,000, it's a big chunk. About 6 moderators to handle it, and really only 2 keep up with it (me being one of them), the others log on about once a month. First of all, I don't like closing threads, it's just ruining freedom of speech, which is kind of the whole point of a forum, if I have to I'll edit every single post, but I like to let people speak their mind. I also never mention anything somebody did, even if a name isn't mentioned, anything someone in particular did. In the mods post he said about the member who is threatening to leave, well, I'll admit it, that was me, and anyone could have found that out. BTW, I'm not the first one to do that. I would never do that to one of my members. I hope this doesn't get edited or removed. I'm not whining, I'm just saying my opinion. Nothing wrong, nothing bad. Just saying it. Also, I never come back at my members in a mean or insulting way unless they come at me on a personal level. Not a moderating job level, but an actual personal level. I think it's wrong to go to your members and tell them they are just whiny little crybabies who need to grow up.
Sincerely,
cvbcbcmv
P.S I'm not complaining, I wouldn't fill out a formal complaint, that's not my point of this post. I just want to state my opinion.
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This is how I moderate too, otherwise things like what's happened here repeat.....and that's bad
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I can see both sides of the argument. Nils is a great dev and should be recognized as a dev. The mods have a site to run andm unfortunatly, there are quite a few immature people that visit these forums and flame away, are disrespectful, and flat out rude. I would like to think that the mods realize that not giving him his dev title after all he has done for the community, was a mistake. I dont know if the will acknowledge that, but it is a mistake. On the other hand, and I have even been guilty at times, there is way too much flaming, rudeness, people demanding of devs, and moronic behavior all over this site, it has become really pathetic. If the mods actual felt that they needed to bring down the hammer, they should have started a long time ago and not let it get as bad as it is. I appreciate this site, but I am also thankful that there are other places I can get quality roms for my phone. Xda just isnt what it used to be when I joined several years ago.
cvbcbcmv said:
yeah, and anything like this has never happened on the forum I moderate, nothing get's passed a disagreement on a statement, and it doesn't come close to a flame war. It's friendly. That's how 2 moderators handle it. The people don't go flaming
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Yeah, and for a mod to put this text when moving a thread is not going to help:
"Moved: I'm incapable of posting or filing an appeal properly, so my thread was moved."
Members are going to cross the line, and honestly act childish at times - sure. But the moderation team shouldn't address that with even more childish behavior.
wildstang83 said:
Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
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First off as a fellow veteran I thank you for your service. However from what I've read about this site it was started in Europe so our American sense of 2nd amendment rites is kind of a mute point. This was and is a site created by devs for devs, us users are just here for the ride without much say in the matter as it isn't a democracy.
This fued some have going with Hacre I think is pointeless. To tell you the truth I think he is some type of enforcer on here. From what I can tell from googling him he's been asked before by mods to respond to posts in the exact same manner he is now. Hasn't anyone noticed not one mod in that main section is from America nor has said anything about Hacre's posts?
I think all the drama here is getting out of hand and its teime to just let it go. Yes I think they should have left the petition threads alone, but the op of the Nils thread asked for it to be locked. Yours I think was a mistake but you pissed someone off by reopening it on your own, maybe should have asked first? In my opinion this has done more harm than good to both Joel and Nils but I guess it wouldn't be xda if it didn't get all blown out of portion in a hurry and quickly go to ****.