Does porting WinPho7 make so much sense?

Does porting WinPho7 make so much sense? - Windows Phone 7 General

Guys, sorry if the title is offensive. I'm a HD2 owner waiting for a WinPho7 port like forever. Recent thoughts and gossips make me think a bit otherwise though.
First, would this be a bit unworthwhile effort-wise? Porting one OS usually makes a lot of sense since a lot of devices could benefit from the effort. In the specific case of WinPho7 where the only place it could possibly work is HD2.
Then, Microsoft has been talking about building a unique token or something like that into every WinPho7 device, in order to remotely identify genuine devices. Normally it shouldn't be much of a problem but when it comes to WinPho7... Well, we love WinPho7 largely because of it having A) Xbox Live for games B) Zune for entertainment C) Office suite for productivity. Serious sh*t happens when the Big M catches you hooking something they don't want to see on their Xbox Live network. It's quite likely a flashed WinPho7 device get banned from the online service much the way like modded Xbox 360. If they get pissed off enough, it won't be technically hard to apply this ban on Zune. If that's the case, the flashed device is as good as doomed unless someone manages to work out a dump/sideload solution.
Now thinking about getting a new WinPho7 device when they hit the market and keep the HD2 as a backup toy. That's a depressing scene since up to now there hasn't been anything revealed as beautiful as HD2. Please somebody slap me awake.

Well since the ROM for HD2 will be completely "cooked" from source code I guess, there is no any reason, why Da_G couldn't write simple app that would sideload the apps or disable signature check or what not in the main loader and pass it diff file on filesystem.

General .
~~Tito~~

Related

My Thoughts on WP7

I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry

Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.

I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.

+1 good post b

A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.

gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..

Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.

style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.

@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.

pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.

style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.

It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.

Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....

RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?

Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.

If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~

vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
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HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.

Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
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Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.

Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S

Microsoft Haters

I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.

You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?

AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.

Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.

I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.

awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states

I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!

awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.

no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7

Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?

awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.

Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!

I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out

That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.

Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.

Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!

Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune

francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]

A Wider View on the Future of WP7

This thread should not be about how WP7 should catch up with the competition but how WP7 should be ITSELF and raise the bar/level on its own.
I looked on the various ideas from developers (i.e. the lockscreen being filled with some Android-ish widgets or infos) and I basically don't personally like the idea or where this seems to be going.
I LOVE WP7 , I love it for finally having something fresh and fast after years and years of icons-mania, custom ROMs,PC-tweakage-and-problems-ported-to-phones similarities. I love it so much that I personally do not give a damn about missing some features right now which are to be implemented soon enough. (although I RESPECT other's opinion)
The thing is that right now there is no such thing as WP7 in terms of UI on the market, NOTHING! And this is the OS' biggest strentgh right now. The reason I bought this phone (HD7) is for finally getting rid off all those geeky stuff. I love how I can see a clean wallpaper with a minimalistic basic notification below and a huge date. It's just what you need , it's clean , it's modern, it's how an OS in (almost) 2011 should be. But I am not talking here only about esthetics or eye-candy, I am talking about how well information is being provided to the user, how professional is done rather than some active wallpaper which basically has no purpose rather than a silly childish brag and a battery drainer.
I want WP7 to stay that way, I don't want to become an Android wannabe.
IMO I find Android a rather weak UI. I mean we are almost hitting 2.3 but has there been any serious major update? Nada.
So, the point of this topic would be about developers being able to help raise this new standard.It's about perception, it's basically about the purpose of the phone. Phones should help people comunicate. I keep seeing news in this current Smartphone world about hardware upgrades and basically nothing else. Originality has been in the last years left behind.
This is where I think Microsoft simply nailed it.The OS is not perfect, it's not perfect because it doesn't satisfy some needs, but people should think of what they really need NOT what they saw at other OS device and want this or that back.I can see why Steve Ballmer said WP7 will be one of MS' biggest succeses and I can see why an OS like this is not yet polished and I can see that it needed a little bit more time to develop properly but obviously they simply couldn't afford another delay. It's just something new !
I hope mods don't close this thread because as I initially stated this is not about what WP7 does or does not, it's about what WP7 is and can be or what it can change.

I agree. I'm not missing all the icons all over the home page, having to retheme them everytime I flashed a ROM. At the time I liked doing it, but now I'm just enjoying using the phone.
I think there are a couple of things microsoft needs to add, like outlook support and vpn so business users can jump on board. I think we will see pretty frequent updates in the beginning and I'm excited by where wp7 is going.

I share your love for the Metro UI; I look the whole minimal look. But I hope you can appreciate this look is not for everyone. So the UI being the greatest selling point for you may be the greatest downfall for someone else.
There are two approaches companies can take in the mobile OS war:
1. Highly customizable OS that can look and behave however you want it.
2. Highly restrictive OS that will look and behave how they expect it to.
The pros with the first is that kind of OS will be able to appeal to the masses. The cons are that it is a more complicated OS that may have stability and support issues.
The second is usually the exact opposite.
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.

I completely agree.
After couple years of tweaking my PPC 6700, TP, TPII and HD2, changing ROMs every week, using Sashimi to restore my settings, and lately trying almost every Android build available on my HD2, I have to say that the first days with my HD7 were boring. No many post in XDA, most of them complains about the missing features, but nothing really exiting. Now, I do miss some features but my experience with this phone is great. Everything works, and does it really fast. I had to restart the phone only once in more than 2 weeks and it was just because I had visual voice mail in the HD2 and Tmobile had to change my setting in their end and they recommended that I restarted the phone.
Everything is smooth, everything work , I spend more time in the market now and less in XDA, I even get better battery live because I’m not using the phone that much trying to see what else I can tweak, I can’t check current widget every once in a while to see how my battery is doing and I can’t or I don’t have to do a lot of thing to improve my experience with the phone because it is out of the box by far better than any other phone I ever owned.

nicksti said:
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro UI will definitely be a seller as developers perfect their implementation and understanding of how to work in it for optimal user experience.
Developers should spend 1-2 hours flipping around in zune to see how they can create a nice app that doesn't look like someone copy and pasted the demo code

To be honest...
The looks and the flashy animations matter very little to me.
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Allow me to stream music to my car via bluetooth
- Allow me to print to my wifi enabled network printer
- Allow me to sideload files into applications (Important!)
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
- Allow me to heavily customize it
I'm not asking for a lot really
I mean honestly... PDA's have been around for at least 10 years already... I feel like MS have just pushed their platform back to the dark ages.
I want to see interconnectivity and flexibility!

I agree with everyone above I'd also like to see multitask and everything else people want BUT I want to have it in the WP7 way , not how we've seen it so far.
Microsoft needs to find a balance between having a "locked down OS" and a highly-customizable one. If a dump OS means a higher quality control and a brilliantly fast UI then I personally take it, that doesn't mean everyone likes it.
Apple really did manage to make a milestone in mobile phones with the iPhone but they somehow stopped (maybe due to succes) and now we have as I said an icon-mania based OS or an app-centric one. I think Apple could have done a lot more (at least after 3GS) and deliver a twist once more.
On the other hand, Microsoft learned (not copied) the Apple recipe and understood that less is more and simple things are more likely to atract customers although this doesn't mean it will also satisfy the more advanced users yet they can still do it ! If they can make it spot on with the first update things can only improve to an already refreshing and solid OS.

What's so wrong about being app centric anyway? I like the fact that my phone is the most versatile multi-tool I own. A device that can achieve a near infinite number of tasks that fits neatly in my pocket. To me, apps are the real draw for having a smartphone.

The number of apps is rising heavily, games ehh games take a little longer to develop. This is because Silverlight and XNA and Visual Studio in general is such a pleasure to use. When devs do something for the platform, 99% will definitely stay because they wouldn't want to go back to horrible Objective-C. So we're going to start seeing the games market sway to WP7.
The future of apps and games in the WP7 Marketplace is going to be crazy

I will just say something obvious,
but in a broader image MS will have a great great advantage
retaining it's great UI and whole concept/paradigm turned to "average" customer
but adding missing power features underneath.
That is also what makes Windows7 so great for instance.
And users will be more conscious no doubt.

AceofSpades25 said:
To be honest...
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!

I agree with the OP and no I don't want the WP7 to become anything like the WM 6.5. Personally I don't even care for the multi-tasking but I know a lot of people want it so I would hope that MS does it in a way that doesn't hamper the speed and smoothness of the WP7 UI as in smart multi-tasking and not like my previous android which always had multiple apps in the background.

Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!

Honestly, I think the reason for WP7 being released "prematurely" as put by some, is entirely business oriented. They just wanted to get on the consumer's mindset BEFORE the year ends, and make some money along the way. In a perfect world, WP7 would have come out in Q2 2011 with all the missing features.
I am loving my Optimus 7 though...and the biggest missing features for me are multitasking or at least some degree of backgrounding, and USB mass storage/file manager access, although the latter can be solved to some degree with a simply registry hack on the computer it is connected to. Also, the fact that I cannot simply load up any word or excel file I want without a sharepoint account is pretty f--ing stupid. Same thing with pdfs...
I do not hate Zune, as some do, and I find it to be quite the fast little program, when compared to something like iTunes. I just wish Microsoft did not continuously ignore CANADA, and omit all the features from its services when it came to a Canadian Live Account ( I am too tied into my live account to make a new one with an American locale, I use it for my msdn account, zune, xbox live, hotmail, and dreamspark account, so switching is much less an option to me ).
Overall, I will stick with my phone until April/May, and if it hasn't drastically improved by then, I will be switching to something better, possibly.

From the USA perspective, the launch of WP7 was done right before what is expected to be a huge holiday sales season. I just saw a news story today where they are expecting retails sales to be the best in many years. Black Friday is tomorrow and Cyber Monday is in a few days. It's competitors have nothing exciting going on now. Meanwhile, Microsoft launches Kinect and WP7, both integrated with their successful Xbox. If things go their way, this may go down as the season of Microsoft. I don't know if it will work, but I bought a WP7 phone and we are talking about getting Kinect for the kids . So yes, it was a business move, and probably a good one, to launch WP7 when they did. No, it doesn't have all the features we would like... but with over 1 billion USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.

dez93_2000 said:
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way... I would rather have an Android, but I love developing for WP7. Fortunately, I will be getting a WP7 device through work, so the decision is out of my hands. The only thing I can do now is to keep on at Microsoft about removing the restrictions on the platform.

dez93_2000 said:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully subscribe to the points above.
I hate to be tied to a PC and to Zune. It has always been the reason I avoided the iPhone... And now it seems it's coming to WP7 I think it's the wrong way.

bmazloum said:
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. Definitely with the gaming. Some type of suspended gaming answer text then back to gaming.

Couldn't agree more with the comments. I love tech (I'm sure everyone on here does!), and Android was great for a while - something a little different, very customisable etc...but I love the simplicity of WP7, it has focus, and that focus is the user.
Of course there is plenty they could and should add, but this is V1 and I think we forget that too often. For an OS just out the door, it's fantastically polished, and as long as they stick to their promise to provide regular updates, and even more importantly, make sure that they only enhance the phone and don't start to break features or affect performance, then they have a real winner on their hands.

smuook said:
In USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly ! People somehow got used to think that if it's not iPhone like fame then a certain device is not succesfull. Being so much money in this even if they like it or not they will have to make it better and better (not that for me is bad in any way). I had have mine for a while already and I didn't think for 1 second going back to other OS.

Why all the hate?

We get that you don't like WP7, you come in here daily stating it for no reason that I can see. I certainly don't see it benefiting anyone or changing anyones minds. When I look in the android general section I don't see a bunch of WP7 fans in there posting about the (many) faults of the OS. What about Windows could possibly bring about so much hate except perhaps jealousy? I just don't see the reason why anyone wants to come in here over and over again more or less neglecting their own devices forum to bash on an OS most of them have never used. If you have a WP7 device and want to come bash it then whatever but really... no need for all this senseless hatred...

Well, I like it

Because alot of the people you speak of are not android or apple fans yet. They are still weighing their options of which os and phone is better. And when a android or apple user tell them whats wrong and what features are missing. The wp7 pole jockers start to get their feelings hurt, because the phone will eventually have the updates but dont. Thats my 2 cents.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Fear
These people you speak of do not like MS for whatever personal reasons. The thought that something like WP7 might be successful irritates the heck out of them. They fear that MS will be successful and it drives them crazy, so they post hateful messages in hopes that someone, anyone, will agree with them and reinforce their hope that MS will fail. Childish, immature, unrealistic, misguided, and, quite frankly, kind of disturbing.

z33dev33l said:
We get that you don't like WP7, you come in here daily stating it for no reason that I can see. I certainly don't see it benefiting anyone or changing anyones minds. When I look in the android general section I don't see a bunch of WP7 fans in there posting about the (many) faults of the OS. What about Windows could possibly bring about so much hate except perhaps jealousy? I just don't see the reason why anyone wants to come in here over and over again more or less neglecting their own devices forum to bash on an OS most of them have never used. If you have a WP7 device and want to come bash it then whatever but really... no need for all this senseless hatred...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What "hate"?...... hate is a pretty strong word for an inanimate object, if your talking about the many shortcomings of WP7 that are constantly pointed out, so what, they need to be pointed out and *****ed about otherwise MS won't change them.
There's probably an element of teasing people because of funny threads like you started about how you've never been so impressed with an OS, with many silly words like "love" and "beautiful" used and how it's so much smoother than whatever, if having smooth swiping and scrolling is your total requirement for a mobile OS, don't get upset when others think it isn't.
Don't assume everybody who says anything negative about WP7 is an Android user, a lot of them are long time PPC/WM users and have probably lost more than you've gained with WP7, it's their right as a customer to bleat all they want, people can say WP7 is not a replacement for WM all they like, fact is, it's being marketed and sold as one by Microsoft.....and it ain't....not even close.
People that are getting all bitter and twisted over others negative comments, need to step back and accept that XDA is a public forum moderated by users trying to be impartial, and if you don't like it, my suggestion is to start your own WP7 enthusiasts forum where you can moderate all negativity to your hearts desire....maybe a yahoo group or something where you can vet users thoroughly before allowing them into your little happy world etc.
"Try it, before you criticize it", yet every post I've read in here where someone has, and then they are pointing out it's shortcomings, WP7 defenders start saying inane things like....you should have known, and.......go back to your beloved android, honestly, this forum is like reading a commentary of primary school life or something these days, it used to be great, now it seems like some sort of perverted amusement value where no one can accept that someone else has different wants or requirements, and start using ridiculous terms like jealousy...hate...love...beauty...trolls....fanboys on and on....pretty bizarre [if not amusing] reading considering handhelds are being discussed.
edit> Fear, there's another one.
Carry on.

gerryjoson said:
People that are getting all bitter and twisted over others negative comments, need to step back and accept that XDA is a public forum moderated by users trying to be impartial, and if you don't like it, my suggestion is to start your own WP7 enthusiasts forum where you can moderate all negativity to your hearts desire....maybe a yahoo group or something where you can vet users thoroughly before allowing them into your little happy world etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
verdict is reached

So essentially it should be like WM6.5 (a failed OS regardless of what the members here say) or bust because its made by a company who in the early 2000s wanted to put out a phone that had some computer functionality and havent changed it much since? I loved WM primarily because I COULD modify the UI to something beautiful and I could always update it with the latest version of some UI replacement and I could do all this but at the end of the day it's nice to have a phone that just works from the start without a stylus or lag or anything. After owning a veritable ton of smartphones I can honestly say that with the WP7 I dont feel that I need to mod it to make it amazing. Yeah, it lacks a few basic features but I think it more than makes up for it in the areas it excels. I understand that not everyones going to like it. Some people are concerned with physical customizations I've personally not seen a UI so smooth before so I dont need any physical changes. However, more often than not if someone posts a thread like "I want to get a WP7" or something like that trolls will flock to the thread and try and pull them to android. I mean its not a big deal for some but some of us cant stand fragmentation. It's annoying and its an issue you'd think they wouldve addressed prior to this. If people want WM 6.5 its there. For those of us who want something newer that actually has a chance in the smartphone world, WP7 is there.

z33dev33l said:
So essentially it should be like WM6.5 (a failed OS regardless of what the members here say) or bust because its made by a company who in the early 2000s wanted to put out a phone that had some computer functionality and havent changed it much since? I loved WM primarily because I COULD modify the UI to something beautiful and I could always update it with the latest version of some UI replacement and I could do all this but at the end of the day it's nice to have a phone that just works from the start without a stylus or lag or anything. After owning a veritable ton of smartphones I can honestly say that with the WP7 I dont feel that I need to mod it to make it amazing. Yeah, it lacks a few basic features but I think it more than makes up for it in the areas it excels. I understand that not everyones going to like it. Some people are concerned with physical customizations I've personally not seen a UI so smooth before so I dont need any physical changes. However, more often than not if someone posts a thread like "I want to get a WP7" or something like that trolls will flock to the thread and try and pull them to android. I mean its not a big deal for some but some of us cant stand fragmentation. It's annoying and its an issue you'd think they wouldve addressed prior to this. If people want WM 6.5 its there. For those of us who want something newer that actually has a chance in the smartphone world, WP7 is there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest about mine does this and yours doesn't, you asked the question, why so much hate, and I was giving reasons I thought were probably relevant apart from the extremely popular Android users conspiracy theory.
I don't really understand why you started this thread when you think you already know the answer, what was it ever going to achieve for you apart from more negativity for something you like?

XDA's official Galaxy S hater.
Location: Austin, Texas.
/thread

JoLLAJoLLA said:
XDA's official Galaxy S hater.
Location: Austin, Texas.
/thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what a waste of a post. What does this prove except that you can read???

nrfitchett4 said:
what a waste of a post. What does this prove except that you can read???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it proves that the OP is a hypocrite as he is a Galaxy S hater. Your inability to extract this information from my post is tragically disappointing.

JoLLAJoLLA said:
Well, it proves that the OP is a hypocrite as he is a Galaxy S hater. Your inability to extract this information from my post is tragically disappointing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
29 posts in almost a year.
Are all of them this helpful???

well.. i used to have iphone and i hate it, i changed to android, kinda better.. then now i have wp7.
WP7 is the best amoung all the OS. i just love it.
games are much better,
i can do office,
interface is easy and fast,
screen is hell big on my HD7,
BUT
games and apps are expensive like shiat!

I am not hating WP7.
I own one for 2 months now and I just realize that it is not really a smartphone.
It is rather a phone for kids or for people who are not used to smartphones and need something very basic.

arturobandini said:
I am not hating WP7.
I own one for 2 months now and I just realize that it is not really a smartphone.
It is rather a phone for kids or for people who are not used to smartphones and need something very basic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, name me another feature phone that has:
1. MS Office
2. Netflix streaming
3. slingbox
4. 3d games
5. exchange support
Just because it doesn't meet your needs, doesn't make it a featurephone.

It indeed has some nice features, but as long it does not have:
- a file explorer,
- an easy way to manage Office files
- an easy way to send Office and pdf files
- USB drive
- Skydrive client on the phone
I don't find it business oriented enough

I had Desire and Desire Z, so both Android smartphones, well first, I loved them, but that flashing game to get better Android sucks. And With each rom, official or not I got bugs. Well, now I have Omnia7 and it's really awesome. Music player, messaging, people hubs are super! It's a great OS which was created to get things done fast. Android is created to root, install roms and get ****ed up one day. Well, I hope that many other Android users will get bored with flashy thing and grow up one day. People, don't you have anything better to do, instead of flashing roms? And creating them? Company creates OS, and developers makes apps. And with android we have, that Google creates OS, which is **** and needs things like Sense and etc. to look not like cheap **** and then users, developers creates Roms. People, create apps not roms, if you want to create OS go and Create your own or join other companies.
So my opinion about WP7: very good Os, needs some updates to get some features that are lacking and more apps )) Which will come eventually ;]

arturobandini said:
It indeed has some nice features, but as long it does not have:
- a file explorer,
- an easy way to manage Office files
- an easy way to send Office and pdf files
- USB drive
- Skydrive client on the phone
I don't find it business oriented enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, these features like explorer will come one day. And I realized that I don't need them. All my things like music and pictures are synced with zune, which is awesome. And because it's not Android I don't install ****s like Roms and etc, so file transfer is not needed for me :]

Niiceg said:
I had Desire and Desire Z, so both Android smartphones, well first, I loved them, but that flashing game to get better Android sucks. And With each rom, official or not I got bugs. Well, now I have Omnia7 and it's really awesome. Music player, messaging, people hubs are super! It's a great OS which was created to get things done fast. Android is created to root, install roms and get ****ed up one day. Well, I hope that many other Android users will get bored with flashy thing and grow up one day. People, don't you have anything better to do, instead of flashing roms? And creating them? Company creates OS, and developers makes apps. And with android we have, that Google creates OS, which is **** and needs things like Sense and etc. to look not like cheap **** and then users, developers creates Roms. People, create apps not roms, if you want to create OS go and Create your own or join other companies.
So my opinion about WP7: very good Os, needs some updates to get some features that are lacking and more apps )) Which will come eventually ;]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gimme a break. There is nothing bad in wanting to squash from your phone more than it gave you out of the box. Now you sound like some iPhone user
"Simply is simply better cause it's simply and I don't need nothing more". We spend hundrets of dollars to buy a capable phone, not a pretty device capable of doing things that prehistoric people did ;/.

arturobandini said:
It indeed has some nice features, but as long it does not have:
- a file explorer,
- an easy way to manage Office files
- an easy way to send Office and pdf files
- USB drive
- Skydrive client on the phone
I don't find it business oriented enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neither was iphone or android on first release. It will take time. I can't blame MS for taking this approach. Business users were not keeping winmo numbers up enough by themselves (along with the techies). So they are trying entertainment first with business features coming.
raven_raven said:
Gimme a break. There is nothing bad in wanting to squash from your phone more than it gave you out of the box. Now you sound like some iPhone user
"Simply is simply better cause it's simply and I don't need nothing more". We spend hundrets of dollars to buy a capable phone, not a pretty device capable of doing things that prehistoric people did ;/.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing wrong with trying to get more out of your phone.
Something wrong with HAVING to install fixes right out of the box.

NoDo is not enough!

I know the in's and out's of being an early adopter, but frickin come on MS!! I HAVE ZERO ACCESS TO MY VIDEOS TO SHARE WITH THE WORLD! I'VE HAD THAT SINCE MY FIRST NOKIA SMARTPHONE BACK IN 2001!!
I WANT TO AT LEAST HAVE ACCESS TI EMAIL OR UPLOAD A DAMN VIDEO WHEN I WANT!!!
RIGHT NOW MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCK ON AND IT WON'T TURN OFF...FML!!
I LOVE THE FOUNDATIONS OF WP7, BUT PERSONALLY I REQUIRE BETTER INTEGRATED MULTIMEDIA SUPPORT.
2 HOT ANDROID PHONES DROPPING ON TMO SOON, I MIGHT JUMP ON ANDROID FOR THE FIRST TIME...
CYPH
SORRY FOR THE CAPS, STILL STUCK! :|

I say Troll
Sent from my Samsung Focus using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Madcypher said:
I know the in's and out's of being an early adopter, but frickin come on MS!! I HAVE ZERO ACCESS TO MY VIDEOS TO SHARE WITH THE WORLD! I'VE HAD THAT SINCE MY FIRST NOKIA SMARTPHONE BACK IN 2001!!
I WANT TO AT LEAST HAVE ACCESS TI EMAIL OR UPLOAD A DAMN VIDEO WHEN I WANT!!!
RIGHT NOW MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCK ON AND IT WON'T TURN OFF...FML!!
I LOVE THE FOUNDATIONS OF WP7, BUT PERSONALLY I REQUIRE BETTER INTEGRATED MULTIMEDIA SUPPORT.
2 HOT ANDROID PHONES DROPPING ON TMO SOON, I MIGHT JUMP ON ANDROID FOR THE FIRST TIME...
CYPH
SORRY FOR THE CAPS, STILL STUCK! :|
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this may be the most retarded post ever
and on april fools day...ha I wondered where you were hiding

Caps lock stuck? Really? Come on now, its 2011. You can use a better excuse.

and why is this person a troll?? cause he misses a feature he's so used to?? or the caps??
Anyway,
i'd suggest u find(and use) another OS(platform) - cause at the moment
-wp7- is, what it is...
i personally use several smartphones(desire,bb9700,i4,omnia2,e72...optimus-7), i like wp7 and believe it has a future but at the moment wp7 is not molded for many of us "smart" users...
Let me tell u another thing- many here (especially the fanboys) use wp7 as a second,third or forth phone.... And they're not objective when asked bout oppinion(and maybe have some sort of material benefits from MS for -not being too much critical of the OS-)
to sum it up for u
- you'll be better of with andro(or symbian, or winmo, or iOs) if u need FUNCTIONS as much as it gets...
- wp7 will progress in time...
ps- since microsoft's MiX conference is nearing (12-14.04) u can also wait a bit and maybe we will all be surprised...

It has more than enough functions, and they referred to him as a troll because his caps chose this hate filled post to get stuck? Two lines in?
I don't see what's so "powerful" about Android, WinPhone handles the functions I use every day much better than Android... Honestly, how many times do you really need to access a registry or file system? If its more than 3 in a year, maybe you should look for an OS you don't need to modify to be functional
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

It's not about what you need everyday. It's about what the entire smartphone market needs everyday. You alone are not a factor and Microsoft could care less if you flushed your WP7 device down the toilet and went to iOS or Symbian...
WP7 is functionally thin. It's not exactly a mystery, and the "it does whatever I need it to" is getting a bit old (and always has been kind of idiotic to read in every damn thread, TBQH).
Lots of people are having to access the registry and file system, because the base OS hides tons of stuff from users. And I'm not talking about advanced stuff: Loading Custom Ringtons, Changing the Default Browser Search back to Bing from Google, Setting a Browser Home Page, etc. are not advanced features and certainly do not display the power of any smartphone OS.
And for those features to be "functional," yes, WP7 needs to be modified.
The difference between WP7 and Android/iOS atm is that thsoe OSes are modded to get advanced functionality. WP7 is modded to get basic **** that has been on feature phones for almost 1.5 decades working on the phone.
Stop making excuses for the platform and pressure Microsoft to "finish" it. Early Adopter is not analogous to "Beta Tester."
Not to mention it's a bit late to call WP7 users Early Adopters, anyways...

Or you could do what everyone else did and read a review or two of the os. What it can and can't do and stop complaining about not having features that everyone knows is not there yet.
Just a thought...
Sent from my LG-C900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I dont understand, why buy something that doesnt meet your requirements in the first place? You wouldnt expect someone to buy an android device and then post how they want to remove the complex features because they cant handle all the options, would you? You dont have to buy a WP7 device you know, there ARE alternatives, get what suits you, problem solved.

I hope those responses weren't directed at me.

Oh look..... another thread full of the same old thing....
"Your a troll..."
"Your a fanboy.... "
Blah blah blah........
Seriously....... Grow up.
Thread closed.

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