Related
Well, if HTC won't do it, someone needs to... I want to see if it can be done. Can we create our own ATi Imageon Drivers for the MSM7200/7500?
step 1: Find out which Imageon is in there...
Here's the official list
I just hope it's not some custom job!
Think it's worth a go?
^^Bump^^
This definitely needs to be done. I wish I had the know how to develop this but unfortunately I don't.
you should really try posting this somewhere else, like maybe in the development and hacking forum, since the vogue is not the only device that suffers from this.
this is really a great idea in my opinion, and im sure there are those out there that know how to get it done!
Would be awesome, but it seems like it would be a huge undertaking. I'd imagine that Qualcomm has it locked in some way, preventing it's use if the license to use that component wasn't purchased as part of the hardware platform. I really have no idea though. I'll keep hoping : )
A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step... we have a ton of talent here, HTC and Qualcomm don't seem to want to release it... I think that it might be time to start building our own.
Post copied to development and hacking but I quoted first post of this thread to give proper credit for the idea.
I remember reading somewhere that there is actually a $2000 (and growing) cash prize for the msm 7xxx drivers. Totally support the idea.
yep... I think it's up to 7 grand now.
I'm going to wait until the end of March before I start anything.
Draiko said:
yep... I think it's up to 7 grand now.
I'm going to wait until the end of March before I start anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well if anyone could point me to link i willing to offer 200 to play quake on my phone
problem is that writing device drivers is the hardest program one can get into
the driver is limited to a very tiny mem footprint and must never be alowed to crash
even if the memory it's using is lost on the heap
and one needs access to alot of whitepapirs from the hardware maker
which is prob why htc did such a poor job writing then driver themselfs
because they were too cheap to pay qualcomm for it
Rudegar said:
problem is that writing device drivers is the hardest program one can get into
the driver is limited to a very tiny mem footprint and must never be alowed to crash
even if the memory it's using is lost on the heap
and one needs access to alot of whitepapirs from the hardware maker
which is prob why htc did such a poor job writing then driver themselfs
because they were too cheap to pay qualcomm for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not supposed to rain on parade day...
I used to write assembly language device drivers for embedded real-time systems. Doing so requires a high level of knowledge, experience and documentation WRT:
1. Dev & testing tools and environment
2. The target hardware (detailed doc)
3. The target OS kernel and driver hooks
4. System-level programming mind-set (different from app dev)
Quite interesting and rewarding if you have the above - quite difficult, bordering on 'not gonna happen' if you don't.
Sincere best wishes to those who give it a shot!
My entire impetus for this thread was to start gathering people with the skills and talent needed to tackle driver construction. If open-source maniacs can do it, we can too. I have some experience with assembly... the tricky part is going to be finding out the specific commands, paths, and function calls for the embedded hardware. There's going to be a LOT of trial and error involved.
I'm starting to look for the Windows CE DDK right now. Come April 1st, if there is no word from HTC, Qualcomm, or Sprint on this driver issue, I'm going to round up as many capable people as I can and try to hammer this out.
Something that might shed some more light on the entire driver issue... Uh oh
Big Uh oh...
if this ever comes together fully it will be really cool but i still dont get why SE didnt include drivers in the first place??
comeradealexi said:
if this ever comes together fully it will be really cool but i still dont get why SE didnt include drivers in the first place??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As posted before, they probably bought it at a cheaper price by having the drivers restricted. If they were to pay full price then maybe the driver would have been included. It's kind of what Palm did back in the day when they could have spent the extra $.05 for a higher quality speaker but didn't on the Palm III series. I'm pretty sure this is a cost cutting technique used by most electronics manufacturers.
if im paying £500 for a device why not stick $0.5 on the bill! thats a shame
Damn right. I agree with all you guys.
The fact that I cannot get graphics hardware acceleration from a 500 USD+ device is absolutely ridiculous.
I love my Xperia X1, but in hindsight, I would've NEVER supported any product like this had I known it was the case.
Shame on HTC and Sony for swindling their customer from the "rich, multimedia experience" they promise so much.
Bastard Sony/HTC.
well boot android and youll have more qualcomm support..since they own the gpu chip msm7xxx devices uses now, thats what chipset all official android handsets use, even non htc android phones.
ajclai08 said:
well boot android and youll have more qualcomm support..since they own the gpu chip msm7xxx devices uses now, thats what chipset all official android handsets use, even non htc android phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and thus, there is driver support natively in android for us?
If that's true, what's stopping us from reverse-engineering the android driver and building a WinMo driver?
If we had a starting point, it's feasible--but without a starting point (or white papers), it's impossible.
i completely agree with this we have waited enough for the garbage companies to put out. Ive gone through three HTC phones already with graphics Acceleration turned OFF... WTF!!!
* Mod EDIT *
Thread closed until moderation team has had an opportunity to properly review as a result of soliciting donations.
Hey everyone,
As you may all know, there’s a fairly large demand to put Android on the Omnia. After researching it myself, I decided since no one else is doing it I’ll take the incentive and give it my best shot. Don’t get too excited, since I may not get very far. But before I begin, there’re three questions I have to ask:
*NOTE: I own a Verizon i910 Omnia*
1. How do I extract the bootloader, kernel, and rom from the device? I’ve tried all sorts of rom kitchens and utilities and the things I get are either useless or work but only with i900 roms I downloaded and therefore not very helpful.
2. I need to disassemble WM’s device drivers (for the screen, touchscreen, buttons to start), and port them to a custom Linux kernel (that’s what Android will be placed on top of). What software do you recommend (for disassembling WM drivers for ARM in PE format)? A day’s worth of google searching turned up little to nothing.
3. This will involve flashing my one and only Omnia with bootloaders, kernels, and roms that, in all likelihood, will brick my device as I test it. I read in certain places something about a “jtag” cable. Can I use this to flash data directly to the chips without any kind of software running on the phone? If so, what kind of information can you provide? I don’t really care about my warranty, considering what I’m going to do to it To rephrase the question, what options (besides returning the phone) do I have to recover it if it gets bricked?
If anyone wants to offer their support I’d really appreciate it. I need people experienced with the inner workings of a WM device and also people experienced in Linux, specifically device drivers.
it would be great if you could install the Android OS. but i think we need to wait for the official drivers for Android, even if they would be released by Samsung. i start thinking it is impossible.
I honestly doubt Samsung will go the extra mile for a single product (even one as awesome as the Omnia) and port an entirely different operating system to just one of their products. This is one we're gonna have to do ourself. It is possible to do, I'm just stuck right now because I don't know how to dump the i910's rom, which contains all the device drivers I need to make a full-featured port of Android possible. This is what I need help with. It's really not that impossible, it just takes a bit of work.
Mods, could you move this thread to "development and hacking"? It would probably be seen by the people I want it to be seen by there. Thanks.
hey..dude.. checkup this from this group of ppl @
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=431329
may be u can join ..
Hey Guys, I've got an Omnia as well and really really want Android on it. Although I am unable to script. I thought of a way to contribute a bit as well. I set up a website to raise money for the first person or organisation that pulls it off to run Android on the Omnia.
Have a look here:
I chipped in a €100 myself as well to make a start. I hope you guys can contribute some money as well so that it motivates the developers even more.
For the developers out there: "We know you can do it!"
* Mod EDIT *
Link Removed
How can an project be real. If Basics are unknown?
Qualcomm, QCT Tools, Firmware structure etc...
For study:
http://www.4shared.com/file/108584795/bb49ee52/I900_090226.html
Big thanx to barisyalcin.
For Android on Omnia. Good Luck.
The way is the Destination.
Best Regards
Why even bother installing a shell?
the android on the omnia only installs a shell compound, it does not actually convert the omnia into a full fledged Android phone.
I would just scrap it and pick up an actual android phone.
There are a few reasons why we aren't going to port another os to this phone and why we aren't going to see Apps on this phone.
1. How many SKILLED programmers/developers do we actually have willing to put the time and effort into this phone. Not many, if any at all.
2. We are lacking some type of structured development process. Everyone running around trying to do things on their own isn't going to work.
3. Lack of Kin owners. How many people honestly own a Kin? Not too many.. Most likely explains the lack of programmers/devs who want to put work into this. None of them own this phone.
Honestly I love this phone, and as much as I'd hate to see it die, we should admit defeat to Microsoft and give up. Unless some skill gets into these communities I'm throwing in the towel.
Also, the developers that we do have don't want to brick their phones... it seems that even a used gen 1 Kin is $100+ on ebay... I don't understand why
Yeah, I'd hate to brick my phone...but my goal isn't to replace the OS...that is what I like about the phone...I would like to be able to develop for the existing OS...how can we make that happen (does anyone know anyone who knows anyone inside Microsoft to hear our plea)? Would be nice to have an SDK or at least upgrade to WP7.
OK, so I have a KIN and the goal of this forum is to put android on the phone. But, even if we do what is going to replace the home, menu search, and back buttons? Maybe we could put iOS. But anyway, some person said there's 2 storages. The ROM and the 8gb storage. The ROM is locked to prevent modifying. So, why not try to disable the ROM and put Android on the 8gb, instead of trying to flash it? This forum should be merged with the windows phone seven for better eposure and a bigger community willing to help.
As you'r starting posting, i will be soft.
We cannot write on the 8gb storage for files at will, so not writable for now, ok?.
And personally, would stay with the crappy Kin OS before putting iOS there.
Okay I'm not trying to be a douche but the main purpose is not to just put android on the kin. The main purpose of this forum is to get it hacked period. As for the iOS, no that would suck horribly. iPhone sucks. Apple doesnt deserve to be on a "windows" phone. I myself think that the purpose of these forums is just to get it hacked. Maybe add some feature but not android. Android will take time.
No Drivers, all said above
Ok, I understand. iOS would not be the best OS. But, seriously, this forum is not getting a lot of posts. Maybe we could make a 'general' forum for all things that relate to the windows phone. As I said above, there would be more posters. And heres my list of ideas and priorities for the KIN.
1. An appstore/marketplace (could call it XDA market and could be apps by XDA developers)
2. Flash another OS ( depends if people want it or not. Possible OSs could be Windows Phone 7, Android, or just leave it be)
3. More customability ( different color schemes, more pages of tiles/icons, etc.)
4. Ability to transfer contacts.
obsama1 said:
Ok, I understand. iOS would not be the best OS. But, seriously, this forum is not getting a lot of posts. Maybe we could make a 'general' forum for all things that relate to the windows phone. As I said above, there would be more posters. And heres my list of ideas and priorities for the KIN.
1. An appstore/marketplace (could call it XDA market and could be apps by XDA developers)
2. Flash another OS ( depends if people want it or not. Possible OSs could be Windows Phone 7, Android, or just leave it be)
3. More customability ( different color schemes, more pages of tiles/icons, etc.)
4. Ability to transfer contacts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please read the forums before posting. Your ideas have all been thought of and are being worked on.
No access to the storage and a lack of an SDK means no homebrew apps/marketplace.
We've tried flashing the device and we could possibly put CFW on using SPST but we lack a ROM and it seems dumping the device is not possible.
Customization options would be something found in a CFW.
dezgrz said:
Please read the forums before posting. Your ideas have all been thought of and are being worked on.
No access to the storage and a lack of an SDK means no homebrew apps/marketplace.
We've tried flashing the device and we could possibly put CFW on using SPST but we lack a ROM and it seems dumping the device is not possible.
Customization options would be something found in a CFW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, it was just a list of my ideas. Anyway, would it be possible to open up the KIN and play around with the motherboard and storage and stuff? I know that to Jtag an Xbox you got to open it and solder some resistors and diodes. Would it be possible to do something similar to the KIN?
obsama1 said:
OK, it was just a list of my ideas. Anyway, would it be possible to open up the KIN and play around with the motherboard and storage and stuff? I know that to Jtag an Xbox you got to open it and solder some resistors and diodes. Would it be possible to do something similar to the KIN?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can not recommended hard-modding the device in any way unless you have previous knowledge or have completed both Intro to Electronics and Advanced Electronics classes or their equivalents. With that said what would we be playing with? Take the storage and attempt to access it without the device?
dezgrz said:
I can not recommended hard-modding the device in any way unless you have previous knowledge or have completed both Intro to Electronics and Advanced Electronics classes or their equivalents. With that said what would we be playing with? Take the storage and attempt to access it without the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what if instead of dumping the OS, we simply swap out the internal memory with the OS on it? we could probably find a chip about the same size as the one already in the Kin. It would be like switching out your main HDD on a computer, however we would have to create our own drivers first.
fazi13 said:
what if instead of dumping the OS, we simply swap out the internal memory with the OS on it? we could probably find a chip about the same size as the one already in the Kin. It would be like switching out your main HDD on a computer, however we would have to create our own drivers first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey that would work!...................mmm no it wont. The chips are soldered to the board, removing them will probably kill your phone.
Next round of random ideas, please.
Get Windows Phone 7 hackers in on this?
johnkussack said:
Hey that would work!...................mmm no it wont. The chips are soldered to the board, removing them will probably kill your phone.
Next round of random ideas, please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it would kill your phone, de-soldering is easy enough and re-soldering is not that difficult either. But, I guess no one would really want to try something like this anyways. Damn you, Microsoft.
Actualkly Ive been thinking. I have taken apart another phone roughly the same size and shape as the kin twom and it has a chip the same size and shape as the KIN (this phone was an HTC). This might actually work! If we have a way of tying the new chip with the kin motherboard and adjusting the files and software on the chip so they work with the Kin it would work! This might actually be possable.
if you really want to pursue the idea of sodering.. idk if it works but hey if you can more power to you there is a tear down of the kin somewhere on here
fazi13 said:
I don't think it would kill your phone, de-soldering is easy enough and re-soldering is not that difficult either. But, I guess no one would really want to try something like this anyways. Damn you, Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
correction normal soldering isn't that difficult but these are surface mount chips which use a different process generally involving dipping the whole board into a vat of solder with the areas not being soldered covered in something, in the end very tricky to mess with not to mention the boards are customized for these chips
i will sum it as "no". kin is hard enough to handle, not even think about getting desoldering & soldering people who know how to code for the new chips, then discover then soldering again and test on the normal not-hacked kin devices.
....
no. windows 7 guys would be more close to reality.
i said 6.5 not 7.
and i wasnt refering at what you said. but @greenlndr
Oh ok koolz
Has anyone tried extracting the ROM?
Hey guys,
I know Verizon, Sharp, and Microsoft want us to think Kin Two is dead. I've been browsing these forums for a while. Remarkable efforts on your parts..
I'm an electronics guy by hobby. Nothing serious. My Kin ONE(m) suffered the rebooting modem problem and never recovered. I tore it apart. I accidently killed the power supply section...boohoo, but I'm wondering what exactly the hardware limitation was that we couldn't get much to happen between Kin and PC. I heard someone said there was some sort of chip that blocked any 3rd party communication.
I have no actual electronics education but I've been teaching myself for a couple of years. None of these devices are really "locked" I don't think. I don't think a USB programming interface will do the trick. I don't think they were programmed via USB in the factory. I'm looking at the iFixit Kin TWO teardown photos and I'm trying to find an ICSP header. I see two places on the board where there are 4 contacts in a row. These potentially could be SPI or JTAG headers. I'm not a programmer by nature, though I can do some, but I think using those headers would give you direct access to processor/memory. I'm not sure what is the restricting agent right now, but that's as hardwired as you can get.
Again, I'm no professional....BUT, if you do want some people that do have electrical engineering degrees and that are reeally helpful with all things hardware/software/electronics I'd stop over the EEVBlog Forums. eevblog.com/forum/. Go in General Chat or in Microcontrollers. The people in Microcontrollers will have a better programming background but everyone goes in the General Chat so either one.
I think they will really be able to help. They aren't really hackers, but a hell of a lot of knowledge there. The forum owner is an electrical engineer. There is atleast 5 other EEs that frequently post of the forums and they don't treat anyone bad. Tons of really smart people and it's a very active forum. Just sell it to them and you'll have 20 posts on your thread in one evening.
If you guys are still interested, I am still interested in doing something with this phone.
On another note, there's no way to get Kin Two(m) software onto a Kin Two phone is there? I don't think so, but it gets rather annoying having to skip the setup everytime I turn it on etc.
Thanks and good luck.
By the way these are the HARDEST captchas I have ever had in my life. A
FenderBender11 said:
Hey guys,
I know Verizon, Sharp, and Microsoft want us to think Kin Two is dead. I've been browsing these forums for a while. Remarkable efforts on your parts..
I'm an electronics guy by hobby. Nothing serious. My Kin ONE(m) suffered the rebooting modem problem and never recovered. I tore it apart. I accidently killed the power supply section...boohoo, but I'm wondering what exactly the hardware limitation was that we couldn't get much to happen between Kin and PC. I heard someone said there was some sort of chip that blocked any 3rd party communication.
I have no actual electronics education but I've been teaching myself for a couple of years. None of these devices are really "locked" I don't think. I don't think a USB programming interface will do the trick. I don't think they were programmed via USB in the factory. I'm looking at the iFixit Kin TWO teardown photos and I'm trying to find an ICSP header. I see two places on the board where there are 4 contacts in a row. These potentially could be SPI or JTAG headers. I'm not a programmer by nature, though I can do some, but I think using those headers would give you direct access to processor/memory. I'm not sure what is the restricting agent right now, but that's as hardwired as you can get.
Again, I'm no professional....BUT, if you do want some people that do have electrical engineering degrees and that are reeally helpful with all things hardware/software/electronics I'd stop over the EEVBlog Forums. eevblog.com/forum/. Go in General Chat or in Microcontrollers. The people in Microcontrollers will have a better programming background but everyone goes in the General Chat so either one.
I think they will really be able to help. They aren't really hackers, but a hell of a lot of knowledge there. The forum owner is an electrical engineer. There is atleast 5 other EEs that frequently post of the forums and they don't treat anyone bad. Tons of really smart people and it's a very active forum. Just sell it to them and you'll have 20 posts on your thread in one evening.
If you guys are still interested, I am still interested in doing something with this phone.
On another note, there's no way to get Kin Two(m) software onto a Kin Two phone is there? I don't think so, but it gets rather annoying having to skip the setup everytime I turn it on etc.
Thanks and good luck.
By the way these are the HARDEST captchas I have ever had in my life. A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think this can help us very much considering were having problems with software hacking not hardware. I dont think they can help us, but mabye we should have Johnkussack look into this. Hes kinda our lead if you will.
WEM97 said:
I dont think this can help us very much considering were having problems with software hacking not hardware. I dont think they can help us, but mabye we should have Johnkussack look into this. Hes kinda our lead if you will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have clearly never used a USB jug to un brick a phone, got s off on a HTC vivid or used a factory data cable on a Droid RAZR. They all use hardware too access our bypass software. So this good work out couldn't but there may be something here. Obviously plugging it into the computer and doing the same thing over and over isn't though.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda app-developers app