Develop Bugs

Flash 10.1 Running on N1 with Froyo 2.2 update

Hi All,
Just wanted to post this video of Android 2.2 Froyo with flash 10.1 running on the nexus one, which seems to work pretty smoothly!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y7XJI4NN7k
Notice also how you can rotate the device now in the opposite direction for landscape. I can't wait to get this update on the Desire!!
-J

I just saw thus on engadget and it looks impressive. The full screen 3d is smooth and the whole thing seems responsive. Can't wait.

did N1 already got the 2.2 update?

pina_ said:
did N1 already got the 2.2 update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not, not yet, but it will soon!
BTW this preview is so good, I really can't wait to try Froyo on my Desire, I hope we will get official update soon!

i hope we dont have to wait as long as the Hero for the update..

that looks good, i think i'll be rooting if HTC dont give us that officially

Just for clarification, once it's out for the N1 a rooted Desire can be flashed with mostly the same ROM or will it need a lot of hacking from the community, and wailting for mere mortals ?

Thanks OP, that has further wet the whistle for 2.2 n 10.1 flash!!!
WoW!
I'm not gonna root, I'm pretty sure HTC will be on the ball with this one

Im going to go ahead and say it.
Steve Jobs can SUCK IT.

Looking good! Quite excited by this.

oursoul said:
Thanks OP, that has further wet the whistle for 2.2 n 10.1 flash!!!
WoW!
I'm not gonna root, I'm pretty sure HTC will be on the ball with this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would I then have to wait for Orange to get on the ball as well though?

I saw the YouTube video as well, looks pretty cool. Can't wait for June, hope Adobe can release it as said.
-------------------------------------
Sent by winx199 via his HTC Desire

How do we get this on the Desire?

updates
Well I'm pretty certain the desire will get it afterall the desire is their flagship device, hence why the hero getting a bit neglected

Macca2805 said:
Im going to go ahead and say it.
Steve Jobs can SUCK IT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like this one!!!
hate apple!

Wow, thats extremely nice. Look forward to this!

Hero was once their "flagship" and was still neglected. They have lost sight of some important shhhttuff over there at HTC. That being said I still buy from them, cuz they are awesome.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

But has the hero sold as much as the current sales of the desire especially here in the uk. The hero didn't do too well here, but the desire is always out if stock,[email protected]!

Bilbo Fraggins said:
Would I then have to wait for Orange to get on the ball as well though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha hahaha hahaha haha ahemmm hahahaah...
sorry
Orange
are
****
at updating their software, that's why I didn't hesitate to make a gold card and install the Generic ROM within about 3 hours of my first charge
I mean the answer is yes, you will have to wait, a long long time.

Might have to investigate this gold card business then

23rd June FroYo release now far more likely

http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/0...on-june-23rd-is-froyo-also-joining-the-party/
Google, Motorola, Verizon and Adobe are releasing the next generation of the droid on June 23rd with FroYo.
Couple this with the fact that a customer service rep said HTC are releasing FroYo on the 23rd of June it's seeming more and more likely that we will be seeing FroYo on the 23rd of June.

abc27 said:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/0...on-june-23rd-is-froyo-also-joining-the-party/
Google, Motorola, Verizon and Adobe are releasing the next generation of the droid on June 23rd with FroYo.
Couple this with the fact that a customer service rep said HTC are releasing FroYo on the 23rd of June it's seeming more and more likely that we will be seeing FroYo on the 23rd of June.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bob hope and no hope (just guessing like)

lukeyboymac said:
bob hope and no hope (just guessing like)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my thoughts exactly. It really is clutching at straws. For one MOTOROLA are not HTC.

abc27 said:
Couple this with the fact that a customer service rep said HTC are releasing FroYo on the 23rd of June it's seeming more and more likely that we will be seeing FroYo on the 23rd of June.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't follow your logic. This is the release of a new handset from Motorola, it's not a milestone in Froyo releases and certainly doesn't dictate (at least in the short term) what HTC will or will not do.

There are pretty decent froyo roms out there
No need to wait!

x01a4 said:
There are pretty decent froyo roms out there
No need to wait!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stock Android looks horrific. I can't live without HTC Sense and the Sense Widgets.

abc27 said:
Stock Android looks horrific. I can't live without HTC Sense and the Sense Widgets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plus I would rather have a full working phone with FroYo after waiting for HTC than a custom rom with bits working here and there and having to press F5 on the roms thread every minute of the day in hope that something else has been fixed. Don't get me wrong, I am used to it with the HD2 and eventually, custom roms can be pretty awesome, I just feel that time is not right now with the desire.. I'm holding out on HTC for now

ZoZo2 said:
I don't follow your logic. This is the release of a new handset from Motorola, it's not a milestone in Froyo releases and certainly doesn't dictate (at least in the short term) what HTC will or will not do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Notice that Google and Adobe are announcing the next generation of the Moto Droid with FroYo.
Now what we can understand from this is that...
Motorola are releasing the successor to the Droid with FroYo
Adobe are releasing Flash 10.1 Final
Google are more than likely going to start proper OTA updates on the Nexus One
All of these are going to occur on the 23rd of June. Doesn't it seem a bit of an odd coincedence that a few weeks back we heard unconfirmed reports from HTC customer service that a FroYo release was to come on the 23rd of June?
It seems far too perfectly in sync to be a coincedence. Google are trying to stop device fragmentation right? Doesn't having its biggest hardware makers Motorola and HTC releasing FroYo on their devices along with Flash 10.1 being released on the same day sound like a start to defragmentation?

However, HTC is not mention once in the whole story, I would like to see it, but I think Honduras have a better chance of winning the world cup

Lets hope that we havr froyo on the 23rd!

herghost said:
However, HTC is not mention once in the whole story, I would like to see it, but I think Honduras have a better chance of winning the world cup
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh silly me how did I miss that
Did you even read my reasoning for as to why?

twentythree

abc27 said:
Notice that Google and Adobe are announcing the next generation of the Moto Droid with FroYo.
Now what we can understand from this is that...
Motorola are releasing the successor to the Droid with FroYo
Adobe are releasing Flash 10.1 Final
Google are more than likely going to start proper OTA updates on the Nexus One
All of these are going to occur on the 23rd of June. Doesn't it seem a bit of an odd coincedence that a few weeks back we heard unconfirmed reports from HTC customer service that a FroYo release was to come on the 23rd of June?
It seems far too perfectly in sync to be a coincedence. Google are trying to stop device fragmentation right? Doesn't having its biggest hardware makers Motorola and HTC releasing FroYo on their devices along with Flash 10.1 being released on the same day sound like a start to defragmentation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is some logic in this indeed.
It would be cool: a global Froyo launch over multiple devices. Better then slowly updating each device over a 6-12 month period.
The Android Army is marching in on the 23rd! One day before the iPhone 4 is released. Sounds typical Google.

I think there is straw clutching too.
HTC have nothing confirmed, for all we know the announcement by Motorolla is that the new Droid handsets will run Froyo and thats all. And a release date for handsets.

Nekromantik said:
I think there is straw clutching too.
HTC have nothing confirmed, for all we know the announcement by Motorolla is that the new Droid handsets will run Froyo and thats all. And a release date for handsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But why the 23rd of June? The day before the release of iPhone 4?

abc27 said:
But why the 23rd of June? The day before the release of iPhone 4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So they can rub it in to all the iphone 4 owners about how great flash will be maybe?

I think its probable a froyo phone or update will be out on the 23rd, but im not remotely convinced it will be on an HTC device then. If it is, great!, If not then meh.. i'll wait a bit longer.

abc27 said:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/0...te from HTC at the end of this year.. I hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

butus73 said:
Sorry man, but history taught that HTC + fast updates = mission impossible. You'll see.
I'll be glad to see Froyo update from HTC at the end of this year.. I hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And has nothing in history ever changed? There is a first time for everything, including HTC bringing an update fast. If you are looking at the Hero: that was a totally different situation IMO. Froyo is much needed for the Desire while eclair for the Hero was not so big. Flash wants to be on as much possible devies as fast as possible. Google wants a big Froyo launch, which will have a much bigger impact than slow, unnoticed Froyo updates.
I am not sure of anything, bit I do think that the '23rd rumor' is possible. We will see.

butus73 said:
Sorry man, but history taught that HTC + fast updates = mission impossible. You'll see.
I'll be glad to see Froyo update from HTC at the end of this year.. I hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Hero was their first Android device with Sense UI. The Desire is not and they have already seen what happens when they delay an update too long.

Official Froyo for HTC Desire possibly in the beginning of August

Hi @ all
I know it wont be a 100% reliable news but I thought it would interest some of you.
A friend of mine ordered a HTC Desire at Sunrise (Swiss Operator). She was told that the delivery will be postponed to the beginning of August due to the fact that the device will be delivered with version 2.2 of Android aka Froyo.
That would mean that we could possibly get the official Froyo by the end of July for unbranded devices.
Hope the staff at Sunrise is reliable and the info is right!!!
We will know more in about one month.
Sorry if the news has already been posted before.
Sinerely,
Ascenca

Interesting

Well, HTC Customer Service reps got the date wrong for this. So I doubt that a network service provider rep has that much information.
I have a feeling your friend couldn't get a Desire because of the same problem that the Droid Incredible is facing. HTC has a shortage of AMOLED screens.
See here. http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/veri...le-shortage-due-to-amoled-production-shortage
Also, see here for a (probably) more realistic time table direct from HTC PR guy. http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-says-expect-froyo-version-sense-ui-christmas

ohyeahar said:
Well, HTC Customer Service reps got the date wrong for this. So I doubt that a network service provider rep has that much information.
I have a feeling your friend couldn't get a Desire because of the same problem that the Droid Incredible is facing. HTC has a shortage of AMOLED screens.
See here. http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/veri...le-shortage-due-to-amoled-production-shortage
Also, see here for a (probably) more realistic time table direct from HTC PR guy. http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-says-expect-froyo-version-sense-ui-christmas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks für your reply.
I am aware of the shortage of AMOLED displays and the recent PR statement of HTC. I dont pretend my info is right, only wanted to share what I heard. Nevertheless I think August could be possible. The PR guy said that all newer devices (Desire, Legend, etc.) will get Froyo by Christmas. The HTC Desire being their top end device at the moment in Europe I assume it will get the update first. And I am quite sure that they wont provide the update to all devices at the same time. So lets hope for it to be true .
Ascenca

ohyeahar said:
Also, see here for a (probably) more realistic time table direct from HTC PR guy. http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-says-expect-froyo-version-sense-ui-christmas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no timetable there at all - it just says that they'll be finished with Froyo updates before Xmas. Well, August is before Xmas, as is September, October, November and most of December!
What we do know is that HTC have gone on record to say that they are expecting the first updates to roll out in Q3, but we don't know which devices will get it first.
Regards,
Dave

http://phandroid.com/2010/07/06/htc-to-complete-android-2-2-roll-out-by-christmas/
Lets hope it's true and the Desire gets 2.2 in August before the other phones, but i must admit that 2.1 is great and i have no issues with it so am happy to wait whenever it comes out.

It takes time to port all of our applications over to Froyo and then make sure that it is running well on each of our devices. That’s not like a one week kind of project. We need to make sure that our applications are taking advantage of the Froyo features. To make sure that they’re all running properly on the OS now that it’s a new version. And then to make sure that it’s running on our hardware as well as we expect. I would believe that we would be done with our Froyo updates before Christmas.
This was an intervjue with Eric Lin HTC PR dude
Source http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/34139/htc-froyo-update-delays-explained

That's no good. I'm going on holidays at the beginning of August lol
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

It seems alot of the replies in this thread don't take into account the fact that a HTC 2.2 test rom with sense has already been leaked to certain people and was mostly working. So HTC are pretty far along in development already.

Yes i know about that rom. Thats why i think its strange that HTC PR guy talks about crhistmas?

SperVaxjo said:
Yes i know about that rom. Thats why i think its strange that HTC PR guy talks about crhistmas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is cos they want to prevent what happened with the 2.1 Update for the HTC Hero (more than a half year between announcement and shipment, at least in europe).
Better to make promises they can hold. So the Christmas announcement makes completly sense to me.
Ascenca

Ascenca83 said:
I think this is cos they want to prevent what happened with the 2.1 Update for the HTC Hero (more than a half year between announcement and shipment, at least in europe).
Better to make promises they can hold. So the Christmas announcement makes completly sense to me.
Ascenca
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes thats probably the reason. But it might make people not buying the Desire also and go for another brand like Samsung Galaxy S or even the Iphone 4 =P
Oh well, Im glad we have the Devs who get froyo roms out =)

Roms that dont work
Not trying to offend anyone.. I m pretty new to the HTC Desire (3 days) but VERY happy I forgot I ever had a 3GS.
But as far as roms are concerned, I see it is not worth using them since simple stuff such as video recording do not work.

Man, hope this better be true.
Sorry to sound so retardly geeky but it's been such a deep sadness for not being able to use the sdcard for applications. I'm sure you dudes feel the same!
Sent from my HTC Desire

jastonas said:
Roms that dont work
Not trying to offend anyone.. I m pretty new to the HTC Desire (3 days) but VERY happy I forgot I ever had a 3GS.
But as far as roms are concerned, I see it is not worth using them since simple stuff such as video recording do not work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About video recording not working: http://androidheadlines.com/2010/07/android-2-2-is-now-on-the-htc-desire-it-too-can-now-do-720p.html
Looks pretty functional to me

SperVaxjo said:
Yes i know about that rom. Thats why i think its strange that HTC PR guy talks about crhistmas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing they have said is that they will be done BEFORE Christmas, that could be any time not precisely Christmas, it just gives them a window to allow for things to go wrong.

Another hint the update is not far of (statement from Eric Lin, global PR and online community Manager of HTC):
"I don't think you're going to see that really long six month, seven month lag, like you saw in the updates from 1.5 to 2.1, simply because it's a less severe change. Switching from 2.1 to 2.2, they made a lot of tweaks, but they didn't make any gigantic changes, so it should be a much swifter process".
Source: the::unwierd
Ascenca

HTC Annoucement related to 2.3 and Sense

http://www.facebook.com/notes/htc-romania/gingerbread-pentru-htc-desire/223475751011104
They say that HTC Desire memory doesn't support Sense and 2.3. As usual, the smart guys around here proved that it does work

It doesn't have the memory for it, we know that. The Devs have proved it can run it but only using EXT partitions on the SD card which Google won't use as the average user won't know how to make one
Quote:
"Our teams of engineers have worked hard in recent months to update the Gingerbread HTC HTC Desire without compromising Sense experience that you have grown accustomed to our phones. However, we are sorry but we must assume that there is enough memory to allow portability and storage Gingerbread experience on HTC HTC Sense Desire. We are very sorry for the disappointment that this news will cause many of you."

So... They say it will stick on froyo or update with old sense?
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App

So its true ...
On a lighter note...
XDA Desire DEVS RULE, you know who you are snq-, NeoPhYte.x360, RCTeam, BaadNwz, CoolExe and anybody body else i cant think of now.
I would rather spend my money on you guys because you offer way better support.

Wow, that really sucks!

Here's the announcement in English
facebook.com/notes/htc-uk/desire-and-gingerbread-update/225607660802056
Sorry for the borked link, not enough posts yet. Perhaps I lurk too much?

http://facebook.com/notes/htc-uk/desire-and-gingerbread-update/225607660802056
link for you.
thanks murdi

So HTC say that the phone can't run Gingerbread and Sense - but the leaked one did...?
so why not leave the old sense on and update the phone - or better yet - update it to the latest version of Froyo and fix the bugs with the HTC mail etc. so that it can work with Hotmail EAS...
little things would be nicer than squat... even though I'm not going to use it

Well, this is my first and last htc device.

I totally don't care... Sense UI sucks, CyanogenMod, MIUI & AdamG are the best

this is bull**** guys!!
the wildifre S has the same amount of memory and runs gingerbread and sense 2.1 and even with the 3.0 lockscreen!!!! their just as lazy as ****

I am so f.... mad right now, was waiting for this f.... gingerbread and now he wont come... I wont buy HTC phone anymore just becouse this tease. And I am going to tell all my friends not to buy any of their products anymore.

andQlimax said:
Well, this is my first and last htc device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a shame - I do like HTC's phones and the only thing that let this phone down was the low internal memory situation, and their excuse for this too.
I'd buy another but i'd be a little cautious about it next time.
My Blackstone/Touch HD is still working very well, and that hasn't had any updates for ages but it looks like a NAND image may be coming soon for it which will spring some life into it again...
So the Desire is far from dead as the dev's here can perform miracles sometimes...
still plan on keeping my phone for the remainder of this year at least with the hopes that the custom roms keep me going!

Wow, a lot of fickle people on this forum...
Guys, we were never guaranteed updates from HTC at any point. The fact we got FroYo was because it was the top line device at the time. You can't compare the Wildfire S to the Desire. The Desire is over a year old, the Wildfire is less than a month old - of course it'll get a new version.

EddyOS said:
Wow, a lot of fickle people on this forum...
Guys, we were never guaranteed updates from HTC at any point. The fact we got FroYo was because it was the top line device at the time. You can't compare the Wildfire S to the Desire. The Desire is over a year old, the Wildfire is less than a month old - of course it'll get a new version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but then its bull**** if they say its the 'memory', just say ITS TOO OLD TO UPDATE! .
just be honest HTC!!!! dont come with lies!

I know no one guaranteed the update..and also don't care so much because the are the custom roms..
But anyway nothing good in htc for me..That just my opnion

nickislauw said:
but then its bull**** if they say its the 'memory', just say ITS TOO OLD TO UPDATE! .
just be honest HTC!!!! dont come with lies!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
absolutely agreed! It's a shame...

I mentioned before that the Google I/O stated that manufacturers should put the latest version on phones if the hardware can cope - if that applies here then that is a great get-out-clause for not upgrading the desire..
although - we do know that HTC worked on it - see leaked rom.

Lothaen said:
I mentioned before that the Google I/O stated that manufacturers should put the latest version on phones if the hardware can cope - if that applies here then that is a great get-out-clause for not upgrading the desire..
although - we do know that HTC worked on it - see leaked rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
their just to lazy man!!

andQlimax said:
Well, this is my first and last htc device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... but don't forget; when desire came to the market (April 2010) it came with v2.1 eclair, then abt 4 months later, upgraded to 2.2 froyo whereas SE-X10 came with 1.6 (donut) almost at the same time with the desire and upgraded to eclair in November or December 2010, on the other side, Samsung Galaxy-S came with eclair in summer 2010, upgraded to froyo just two or three months ago (know that it will receive GB too soon).. shortly I cannot blame or judge HTC with that; when I decided to buy my Desire, it was the best choice to date (April 2010). Now the only way to root and step into the cooked rom world.
Cheers!
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Finally No GB for Our Bravo!! Even at the End of July:(

As we all know HTC promised that GB will come out for bravo at the end of July. But now since its August HTC again Failed.
What a pathetic way to treat the PHONE OF THE YEAR for 2009/10.
No more HTC. Here i come GOOGLE/APPLE(At least we get the promised update on time unlike Fuc*ing HTC)

htcdesire2 said:
as we all know htc promised that gb will come out for bravo at the end of july. But now since its august htc again failed.
What a pathetic way to treat the phone of the year for 2009/10.
No more htc. Here i come google/apple(at least we get the promised update on time unlike fuc*ing htc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok please stop doing this!!!!

It's still July in Europe. You need to learn about time zones. Furthermore, go find a dark corner to rant in and mind your language.

TVTV said:
It's still July in Europe. You need to learn about time zones. Furthermore, go find a dark corner to rant in and mind your language.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe i think am fine with my language, as long as HTC is involved

Are there no mods on this board?
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App

Whats the point of this thread?

Haxxler said:
Whats the point of this thread?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"no more htc", like me

Guess what, life will continue even without gingerbread...

FoRmaTiTo said:
Are there no mods on this board?
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are very active. But i hope this post is in correct section.

ezekionokia said:
Guess what, life will continue even without gingerbread...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes sure. I am on GB from last 6 months. But i am just concerned about the words from HTC.

HtcDesire2 said:
As we all know HTC promised that GB will come out for bravo at the end of July. But now since its August HTC again Failed.
What a pathetic way to treat the PHONE OF THE YEAR for 2009/10.
No more HTC. Here i come GOOGLE/APPLE(At least we get the promised update on time unlike Fuc*ing HTC)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool story, bro.

Terepin

Enjoy the exact same update policy from Samsung, or The Beautiful, Exciting, Ingenious Walled Garden from Apple, OP

HtcDesire2 said:
As we all know HTC promised that GB will come out for bravo at the end of July. But now since its August HTC again Failed.
What a pathetic way to treat the PHONE OF THE YEAR for 2009/10.
No more HTC. Here i come GOOGLE/APPLE(At least we get the promised update on time unlike Fuc*ing HTC)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh never HTC? Are you out of your mind?... Just because HTC got a day or 2 late makes u feel uncomfortable enough that.u won't buy most reliable brand?...
Talk of Sony.. I bought X10 mini launched in 2 010, they didn't even update that to Froyo...
Yeah.. The wait was excitement for a better software... I kept my phone running one Rom for 2 months... I don't waiting a day or 2 more...
There must be solid reason they got a bit late... I can imagine what could be going through their developers...
Just relax.. Chill out... Wait another day or 2...
at least they announced that u will get update...unlike sony who strictly said..No Updates...

Talk about Apple...I had the Iphone for more than 2 years. The updates to the OS never bring something really new, the main reason I figured Apple does then is to keep the phones locked. At least Android is much more flexible. You cannot compare a huge company like Apple that has to develop an update for just one product to an update for Android that has to be adapted for hundreds of different devices.
Actually this whole gingerbread fuss is becoming funny after a while...The only reason I want to have the official update is to see if it will be more battery efficient. I am runnning different Gingerbread Roms ( with Sense because I really like the integration) for a few months now and none of them really brought more battery life to my phone...

jjdoctor said:
Oh never HTC? Are you out of your mind?... Just because HTC got a day or 2 late makes u feel uncomfortable enough that.u won't buy most reliable brand?...
Talk of Sony.. I bought X10 mini launched in 2 010, they didn't even update that to Froyo...
Yeah.. The wait was excitement for a better software... I kept my phone running one Rom for 2 months... I don't waiting a day or 2 more...
There must be solid reason they got a bit late... I can imagine what could be going through their developers...
Just relax.. Chill out... Wait another day or 2...
at least they announced that u will get update...unlike sony who strictly said..No Updates...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he don´t have to wait he just needs to jump out of the window 5 sek later he will see quad core phones with android 6.0 etc np in heaven LOL

the real question is: what do you want ? and what you cant get with desire ?
our developers in xda are working every day for great roms & updates. and greatest is everything free!!

For what is this thread ?

rail123 said:
"no more htc", like me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good riddance. Both of you.
I have seen the amount of highlanders HTC support has to deal with daily in the past few days and I genuinely feel sorry for them.

Well at least you can root the phone and use a custom rom to get gingerbread now. Wait, you are using a custom rom - why are you complaining?