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Here is the latest news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFYI_Hz9so&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSpA0PCddQg&feature=channel
If you want to watch more about windows phone go to this youtube profile.
http://www.youtube.com/user/chuongvision
thanks
Wow thanks for the links....I know windows phone7 will succeed. For the touchpro 2 I did a test and made a small call of duty game you can play I used the windows phone7 interface and it ran smooth. Iam sure Microsofts windows phone7 will be as good or better than DS or PSP as long as they get the controls right. Here the articule
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5875874#post5875874
ONly WVGA devices though.
Hello...
My question is simple. There was a big emulator push from like 2003-2006, but it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of talk about it anymore. FpseCe is the only thing that I can find that's very active.
FpseCe...
This is a wonderful playstation emulator. Since v0.10 was released, around Christmas, the compatibility went through the roof. v0.9.6 played 1 game (Front Mission 3) out of the 10-15 that I tried. Even at that, it crapped after about 4 hours due to some video chunk.
Now, of those same 10-15 games, only 2 don't work. The rest were able to get, at least, to the first save-game spot. Front Mission 3 was able to get past the video chunk, but it does crash fairly often. I just save more often then I would otherwise. As it's not a consistent crashing (like the aforementioned video), I can play it right over.
You can spend a few bucks and get save/load, whenever you want.
My omnia gives me about full-speed in 2d and about third-speed in 3d. My vogue was quarter-speed to third-speed all around.
Another nice thing is that the saves should be compatible with some other windows psx emulators. I haven't tried it, so I can only speculate.
PocketGBA...
This has been dead for years, but it is still the top gba emulator, that I know of. I was able to complete Final Fantasy Tactics Advance on my vogue. It would crash with certain parts, consistently, but I could transfer my save to VisualBoyAdvance and get past it. Then I would just resave and continue on my phone. It was about quarter-speed to half-speed on my vogue.
I would really like to see further development of this platform. If we can get full-speed with a psx, certainly we should be able to with gba.
Morphgear...
I thought this was going to be a pretty hot item, but it seems like it died out a few years ago, too. Given that it's module-based, I would have thought the people would keep pushing them out.
Nintendo Ds...
Now here's the big issue. Before people start saying that it could never happen, please remember the 200mh cpu from 5 years ago and people saying that you could never do something better when snes wasn't smooth. I think current hardware and screen resolution would be plenty for a good coder, yet I haven't heard of a single attempt.
There is a version of ubuntu that was being developed for the omnia (omnibuntu), but it has ceased. It was straight linux, no layered on top of winmo. It could be possible to load a linux-based nds emulator on top of that.
So, that's what I know about it. What do you guys know about it? Is there a plan on the horizon that isn't being actively discussed, or are things pretty stale in this area?
JJ
The PocketPC (especially most new models) seriously lack hw buttons. A PS1 emulator will always be greatly impaired by this... Scilor developed a way to control a ppc by using another ppc via bluetooth but it's not a practical solution to achieve mobile emulation (you'd need to always carry 2 WinMo phones with you...).
NDS emulation is pretty unfeasable (even the emulator available for laptops/desktops are far from perfection... not to mention that they are extremelly heavy). No current pocket pc has the capabilities to emulate the NDS in a way that would actually be playable.
I'm currently more concerned about old-school console emulation.
The platform doesn't even have good nes, snes, gb/gbc, gg/sms and genesis active projects (these are the platforms I care most).
A free GBA emulator would be a great thing. A port of the gpSP would most likely be the best approach (as was done in the iPhone). The original gpSP was MIPS (PSP) but there are some arm implementations (like the ones for the GP2X and Wiz).
The GBA module and lack of emulators with decent onscreen controls is what made Morphgear thrive (but lets face the fact that the majority of the users are pirating those). Seems like Morphgear has gone open-source: sourceforge project page
I keep hoping that someone will eventually update those old emulator sources that still exist... Most of them just need oncreen controls and resolution related fixes (and by crossing source components between them this could be achieved).
Here are some websites that have pocket pc emulators:
- MorphGear: famous emulator GUI and framework (OSS)
- PocketSnes (OSS)
- PocketNester (OSS)
- ScummVM (OSS)
- n0p: genesis, snes and dosbox ports/mods (OSS)
- emu193:genesis, nes, snes, gb/gbc pots/mods (OSS)
- nyagosu homepage: list of ppc emulators and resources
- emulation9: list of ppc emulators and resources
- Zophar's Domain: list of ppc emulators and resources
Here is a big list of sources I compiled (most resources are from projects mentioned above).
frmariam said:
The PocketPC (especially most new models) seriously lack hw buttons. A PS1 emulator will always be greatly impaired by this... Scilor developed a way to control a ppc by using another ppc via bluetooth but it's not a practical solution to achieve mobile emulation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FpseCe has great on-screen button support (I use left analog, l1/l2/r2/r1, start/select, and shapes). You can go anywhere from 3x4 to 6x7 (I think). Plus, it can have separate portrait buttons. I think it's what all other emulators should base on.
Also, with any emulator, that supports hardware buttons, you can use a bluetooth gamepad (Msi Bgp100, for instance).
The lack of a proper d-pad almost canned the omnia for me. I came from the htc vogue. The extra power of the omnia and fpsece's onscreen buttons made the decision. I miss the d-pad, but it's not a deal-breaker. Unfortunately, I can't do much with other emulators because of it.
The platform doesn't even have good nes, snes, gb/gbc, gg/sms and genesis active projects (these are the platforms I care most).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PocketNester and n0p's PocketSnes have given me fine results on my vogue. It's possible that a 200mh TI chip wouldn't fare as well. The vogue is a 400mh qualcomm. My omnia is a 624mh marvell.
JJ
Is there actually ANY active emulator for ANY console except FpsCe?
I found that morphgear itself is active. I think last version was even released in 2010. But its emulation modules are from 2007, which makes it old junk. It sucks how can 67MHz DS have far greater gb emulator than 500+ MHz devices.
The PocketPC (especially most new models) seriously lack hw buttons. A PS1 emulator will always be greatly impaired by this... Scilor developed a way to control a ppc by using another ppc via bluetooth but it's not a practical solution to achieve mobile emulation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats why i love models with HW keyboard. Its awesome to play old-school games on HW keyboard and looking friend how he can press only one button once on his omnia
P.S.: good idea for thread
@matejdro
An unfortunate truth... Every Windows Mobile emulation project (apart from FpseCE and ScummVM) is dead afaik...
I arrived too late to the scene... The Omnia is my first PDA (and at the time the options were it and the HTC Diamond... an easy choice). I don't like hw qwerty's very much because they are bulky (I don't quite need a keyboard but would have much appreciated a dpad).
@Fa310tx
The Vogue has a hw dpad. If you compare that with the lousy virtual mouse/dpad on the Omnia... I'm also on an Omnia and I can tell that using only the screen doesn't work.
Also these phones are (W)QVGA. Most of these old emulator simply won't work on (W)VGA or will have serious display problems.
The gsensor also doesn't feel right as an ultimate alternative (at least gpad wasn't that great to use with emulators). You need a precise directional control.
For the most recent devices I feel like the best alternative would be to playing in landscape placing the dpad on-screen and assigning the other major buttons to the few hw keys. I asked n0p some months ago to add something like this to his emulators but he said he wasn't interested.
The sources exist... But the WinMo platform isn't very popular and it has lost many great devs to the iPhone and Android scene... We need someone willing to give them a much needed update. I believe it would't take too much work or coding experience to make them usable again. Since I can't code all I can do is search and gather information and source (not enough... but better than nothing... at least the sources won't be lost).
Hmmm...
I hadn't considered turning the omnia the other direction. I'm a classic d-pad guy, so the phone should always be landscape right (d-pad on the left). It irritated me that the volume buttons were on the wrong side. I never thought to use, what should be, the d-pad button as an action button. Unfortunately, though, that only gives 3 and the psx has 4.
I, also, tried the motion sensor for movement. It worked, decently, in Front Mission 3, but I'd still rather use the on-screen analog stick.
The cool thing about FpseCe is that it saves the on-screen and hardware button configurations for each game. In Front Mission 3, I use the left analog stick for movement, but that doesn't work with some other games. I can save an on-screen d-pad for that.
JJ
This isn't just about FpseCe...
Don't forget about the buttons on the sides! For some of them long presses act as different keys (with that and a virtual dpad you have all the needed buttons... also most PS1 games didn't really need all the buttons).
Invisible virtual buttons could also be placed over the game screen (like n0p did in gens... it could coexist with the dpad since emulated multitouch can be done on resistive screens).
Pressing 2 buttons at the same time could act as another button... There are many alternatives.
The point is that such an interface would work well in new devices with most emulators (nes, snes, gb/gbc, gba, gg/sms, gen...).
I just read a desmume thread, that went way off-topic, but it did bring one point up...
Desmume emulates arm7 and arm9 cpus on an x86 system. If native code could be used, it would likely be a quick emulator (maybe it wouldn't be an emulator, then). But, basing something off desmume would be pointless.
JJ
It's not just about the achitecture or bus speed!
You need a lot more power to emulate than to run native code. Also most PPCs have arm6 cpus and bellow! Not to mention without dedicated hw for gfx rendering. And all this has to be done while running the rest of the OS!
The GBA is also arm (and with lower specs) and there's not a decent OSS port emulator available for WinMo.
There's still too much to learn about DS emulation... Current emus are extremelly non-optimal and buggy. Desmume is the only open active OSS project and it's pretty slow even on high-end desktops. No sane person would waste their time porting a wip, heavy, buggy emu to an extremelly limited platform.
Regarding portable devices... Being mips and without a touchscreen even the PSP (with a 333mhz processor... but with the media engine) has a better chance of ever getting NDS emulation (which will also never happen even though there are some extremely slow POC builds of desmume)!
Just drop any hopes for NDS emulation... It won't happen for any of the current devices nor for the foreseeable future devices (if ever).
Oldschool console emulators ftw!
I agree with statements on the lack of functional buttons. I played a bit more old school games on my MDA with the directional pad than I ever do with my TP2. Now I'm used to sudoku, Hexic, Uno, and golf games made for PPC. I wish there was a better solution without using the key mapper
frmariam said:
Most PPCs are arm6 and bellow! Not to mention without dedicated hw for gfx rendering.
The GBA is also arm (and with less resources) and there's not a decent OSS port emulator available for WinMo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now this is truely lame. Gba was introduced nearly 10 years ago and it looks to have an arm7 cpu. Snapdragon is just out and it looks to have an arm7 cpu. The new cpu is like 8-9x the speed, but still.
With that being said, the nds would still need emulating for the arm9 part.But I'm not giving up on it, just yet. I think a lot could change in the hardware scene in a year or two. Plus, historically, we should be getting something in the next couple of years. Psx had a working ppc emulator within 8 years. Gba had a working ppc emulator within 5 years. Even if we were generous, a proof of concept could be available in 2012. Of course, this is all speculation. I have no programming experience. I'm just looking, superficially.
I definitely think that a better-coded gba emulator really could be workable, though. I know I'd support it. I'm an FpseCe supporter.
JJ
You may have a POC nds emu by 2012 on a ppc... but even by then I doubt that Desmume will be mature enough on a desktop. Trying to get people involved in this is a waste of time and bogus at this point.
I know that getting a good GBA emu is more than possible. I really believe that it could be done if some experienced dev put in the time to make the necessary changes to one of the arm gpSP ports that are already out there. For what I read the gpSP core is fairly light and portable and with existing arm ports it would be even simpler (at least than porting the original mips version). But for what I read neither Exophase (original developer) nor Notaz (contributed to some arm ports) are interested.
But ultimatelly I fear that emulation in PPC will never really get anywhere unless the original projects start making the ports themselves like ScummVM did (rather than these fractured and often closed source ports that sporadically appear). The lack of hardware buttons in all (non-qwerty) new devices also makes the platform a somewhat poorer choice for emulation.
WinMo is a small platform and with ever decreing number of developers (even more so at coding C/C++). Maybe if WinMo 7 succeeds the platform will get new devs (but with all the new limitations imposed and the certain unreasonably high price of the new devices... I get the feeling that the majority of the elite around here will abandon the platform after 7 debuts).
That could be true, albeit unfortunate.
I didn't realize that gpsp was around. It looks pretty good.
I'm not sure what your reference to mature nds emulators on the desktop is, but I've had nothing but good with desmume and no$gba on my computer. Grant that I don't use them a lot (I've never played a whole game on it), but I don't recall any problems with the playing that I have done (Final Fantasy Tactics A2 and Disgaea).
JJ
i am in ppc emus since 2004-5.
i know every single emu that was made for ARM ppc.
this post WONT be nice, so beware.
actual situation has few reasons and it IS RELATED TO ACTUAL PDA world state, so READ SLOWLY:
-few years ago, there were devices named PDA.
some people realized that these devices are simply small computers DESPITE their makers DID NOT know that YET. so, fresh owners tried to make some GREAT apps, emus too.
-suddenly stupid HTC started to make money(wiping ALMOST EVERY single producent of mainstream PDAs) with their TRENDY feeble devices.
-"Developers" foras started to turn into HTC tube DESPITE of ridiculous trend turning PDAs with phone module into JUST phone. Effect: 2443789 skinners are getting donation, while good appmakers' posts are wanishing under pile of crap.
-some people just finished with goddamn WM just because of trend that is visible for few years: no buttons, feeble CPUs, ridiculous tende(a?)ncy to make JUST screen filled with HTC BS, not small computer. you know what - i was using 300 mhz xscale pxa263 PDA able to emulate everything but Amy, when i killed it with haret(Oo) someone GAVE me wizard. then i realized how death of pda looks like(2.6 times SLOWER cpu for 3x amount of cash - pure idea of htc). Actually people are stupidified with fockin opengl's HD screens whatever, where's pure power, i am asking.
-some people just lost their interest in programming(no time, family, maybe unemployment, personal stories, sources lost etc.). i remember when n0p lost his 2210 - he tried to ask for some donations, unsuccesful - effect - ZERO updates since.
-some people left wm for symbian(ok..) and...android(well, this is funny, go and look at emulators state for that platform, hhhehhhh).
-developing emulators for your crappy modern devices needs similar SKILLS as always, shame, that newbs are not that determined to make SOMETHING like people from first era of pdas.
BUT, guys - do not be sad, we have ANOTHER manila skin, and wm7 with 3 buttons on sight, soon.
sorry for my english, it is late i am tired, but i cannot stand what happened to pda world(there is no apps like emus that shows weakness of actual devices, this may be NOT clear for ya, anyway).
and newbs with HD2.
i just do not understand people anymore.
upd:
for curious: check actual ScummVM trunk build - lands of lore works.
upd 2: to OP - you may consider making review of PORTS(i recommend DUNGEON MASTER/csb port!), it is similar area to emus, i BET that 85% of newbs don't know how MANY ports are made since 2001.
well, some may lol at fact, that these may need at last....FOCKIN DPAD.
do they have such thing?
i doubt it.
no fun for ya, modern gadgeteers then, sorry ;p
go buy REAL pda from 2005 for 40$.
I've used Scumm for Sierra and LucasArts adventure games.
I don't care for first-person rpgs, though. With that being said, James Beckingham (the guy porting Diablo) has ported Eye Of The Beholder.
Mentioning the dpad/button issue...
FpsceCe has the best implimentation of on-screen buttons that I've ever seen. My omnia (which has a suck-crap dpad) can play psx games with d-pad or analog stick. It really works, fenominally.
JJ
With that being said, James Beckingham (the guy porting Diablo) has ported Eye Of The Beholder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, i know that port, it's unfinished, shame...
FpsceCe has(...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rare case. They really did good job with 0.10. idd.
----
you know what funny is?
goddamn wizard with goddamn omap had best dpad i ever seen :E
damn, i'd like to have that thing in my asus...
ah, btw teenagent works with latest scummvm's / teenagent DZIAŁA
to OP: btw, you must be young man - you skipped everything but consoles...for me playing stunt car racer on ST emu beats every console game, lol
info for readers: just to let you know: we have emulators of almost everything, from zx spectrum to neogeo here, for WM.
kudos for Poklik for refreshed version of atari xl emu(with ONSCREEN controls, it works even on NAVI's).
goddamn wizard with goddamn omap had best dpad i ever seen :E
damn, i'd like to have that thing in my asus...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My htc vogue had a very nice d-pad.
to OP: btw, you must be young man - you skipped everything but consoles...for me playing stunt car racer on ST emu beats every console game, lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Young would be subjective. I'm 32. I grew up with the original gameboy, so portable console games are my thing.
JJ
Hey guys, that PSX emulator, whose name escapes me, can run ISOs of NES and GB emulators (with the rest of the CD filled with roms) made for the playstation. Its sounds like it's a little trouble to set up, but it's certainly doable if you want some on-screen buttons to emulate those.
Hehehe...
Now that's something that I never thought of (a psx emulator running an nes emulator).
Of course, why would you want to do that when pocket pc has good nes/gb emulators (unless you're just referring to the lack of hardware buttons)? My particular problem is gba/nds emulators.
JJ
Fa310tx said:
Hehehe...
Now that's something that I never thought of (a psx emulator running an nes emulator).
Of course, why would you want to do that when pocket pc has good nes/gb emulators (unless you're just referring to the lack of hardware buttons)? My particular problem is gba/nds emulators.
JJ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gb/new emulators are very optimized, true(fullspeed w sound even on UNDERCLOCKED omap850).
but i wonder what if you do not have buttons...well, fpsece seems to be last resort option(and damn, rather for desperados).
gba...idd ,it seems theres noone that can make it for newer devices...
Young would be subjective. I'm 32.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
heh, same here...i feel old and gnarly..zzzz...
It just hit me after today's HP WebOS event that Microsoft is the last big competitor without a real tablet OS (that isn't a thrown-together Windows 7).
Apple has the iPad with iOS.
RIM has the Playbook with QNX.
Google has the Xoom/G-Slate and more with Android 3.0
HP (formerly Palm) has the Touchpad with WebOS 3.0
I know everyone has been on Microsoft's case for tablets, but now they should be really panicking. I'm not sure it's enough to just have WP7 on smartphones anymore if it wants to build a competing ecosystem. The most frustrating part of all of this is that Microsoft really has nailed it better than the rest of these with really deep multimedia features from Zune, Xbox Live services, and a genuinely unique UI.
A couple of months ago, people kept saying Microsoft needs to make WP7 for tablets right that moment. I didn't believe them back then but now I think Microsoft is seriously in trouble. Tablets are going to cannibalize laptop/netbook sales soon and one of the top PC manufacturers, HP, is even pushing WebOS on to laptops later this year. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve with Windows 8 and cross-compatibility with WP7, I am beginning to worry about the long term plan here.
Wait... WebOS is a major OS?
and, Windows has tablets, just because their phone OS isnt tablet based doesnt mean they don't have tablets. Windows xp on my tablet is much more enjoyable.
z33dev33l said:
Wait... WebOS is a major OS?
and, Windows has tablets, just because their phone OS isnt tablet based doesnt mean they don't have tablets. Windows xp on my tablet is much more enjoyable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well since Palm got bought out by the colossal HP and since WebOS has managed to survive these past few months and still somehow stay relevant, I'd say that yeah they can be considered one of the major OS' now. HP is being pretty damn aggressive with WebOS (the Pre 3 and Touchpad look fantastic) and has finally made the hardware to match the software.
That's what I mean though. The average consumer has proved that time and again they do not want normal bloated desktop Windows on a tablet. It's not nearly as intuitive as iOS or even Android, and since Microsoft has to compete with those desktop Windows is not enough anymore.
Makes sense, I guess it's kinda the old WP7 vs iOS, mass market versus us tech geeks who like to play. The question is will they follow the money on this as they have with their phones. As for the new WebOS I can't really act impressed, I mean if they used a rigged poll as their keynote they can't have much to offer. I've played with the OS and it felt a lot like a dolled up blackberry to me and blackberry was just unenjoyable.
the thing that doesn't impress me about the hardware for webOS is how they still use such a low resolution. that would of been the first thing i would have improved on those devices...
z33dev33l said:
Makes sense, I guess it's kinda the old WP7 vs iOS, mass market versus us tech geeks who like to play. The question is will they follow the money on this as they have with their phones. As for the new WebOS I can't really act impressed, I mean if they used a rigged poll as their keynote they can't have much to offer. I've played with the OS and it felt a lot like a dolled up blackberry to me and blackberry was just unenjoyable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? I was always pretty impressed by WebOS and thought it was far and away better looking and easier to use than Android or Blackberry. I always considered it "the grown up version of iOS" because the gestures and dynamic UI elements are just so much more advanced yet Palm kept things so simple and intuitive.
But I still drool every time I turn on my Focus
The Gate Keeper said:
the thing that doesn't impress me about the hardware for webOS is how they still use such a low resolution. that would of been the first thing i would have improved on those devices...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not true after today. The only phone that has the old low resolution is the Veer but since it's on such a small screen it actually increases the overall ppi. The new Pre 3 has a 800x480 screen and the new Touchpad has 1024x768.
If CES 2011 didn't give you enough hints, here it is:
MS Tablet = Windows 8 running on Arm-based SoC demonstrated at CES.
My expectation is we'll see Windows Phone, tablets running Windows 8 on ARM, and Xbox all running Silverlight and a metro-like interface. You can already begin to see some synergy between Windows Phone and Windows tablets by looking at recent applications like Flickr and Mosaic.
There is a good chance that as the tablet matures, they will be less gadget and more laptop/desktop replacement. I honestly don't know if something like iOS is going to do a good job with that.
foxbat121 said:
If CES 2011 didn't give you enough hints, here it is:
MS Tablet = Windows 8 running on Arm-based SoC demonstrated at CES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I'm hoping for and it seems pretty obvious that's where MS is headed.
But I'm still worried about the touch experience of the major competing tablets versus Windows. I'm really praying that MS introduces a Windows 8 that scales to whatever platform its on--for example you'd see a complex and traditional looking Windows on your desktop PC but if you had Windows 8 on your tablet it would have a Metro-based UI like WP7.
PG2G said:
My expectation is we'll see Windows Phone, tablets running Windows 8 on ARM, and Xbox all running Silverlight and a metro-like interface. You can already begin to see some synergy between Windows Phone and Windows tablets by looking at recent applications like Flickr and Mosaic.
There is a good chance that as the tablet matures, they will be less gadget and more laptop/desktop replacement. I honestly don't know if something like iOS is going to do a good job with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your first point completely and that is definitely the direction MS needs to go.
You're also right about iOS. I own an iPad and despite being pretty powerful it also looks downright primitive compared to Android 3.0, Rim's QNX, and WebOS 3.0. But tablets honestly make a lot of sense as a laptop or at least a netbook replacement--it's easier to use, almost instant-on, and an overall more entertaining experience.
OGCF said:
It just hit me after today's HP WebOS event that Microsoft is the last big competitor without a real tablet OS (that isn't a thrown-together Windows 7).
....
A couple of months ago, people kept saying Microsoft needs to make WP7 for tablets right that moment. I didn't believe them back then but now I think Microsoft is seriously in trouble. Tablets are going to cannibalize laptop/netbook sales soon and one of the top PC manufacturers, HP, is even pushing WebOS on to laptops later this year. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve with Windows 8 and cross-compatibility with WP7, I am beginning to worry about the long term plan here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MS may be doing the right thing in using their desktop OS as the tablet platform instead of WP7. This will inherently make their tablets more powerful with the largest ecosystem (Windows). I think we'll have to wait and see what's in store for Windows 8 to see how it works out. MS has been doing tablets far longer than the other's. They just never got the UE together in the way Apple did. Push come to shove, they can make an emulator to run WP7 apps on the Windows 8 tablet
WhyBe said:
MS may be doing the right thing in using their desktop OS as the tablet platform instead of WP7. This will inherently make their tablets more powerful with the largest ecosystem (Windows). I think we'll have to wait and see what's in store for Windows 8 to see how it works out. MS has been doing tablets far longer than the other's. They just never got the UE together in the way Apple did. Push come to shove, they can make an emulator to run WP7 apps on the Windows 8 tablet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, their tablets should theoretically be more powerful. But I don't want my shiny new Windows-powered tablet to only last 4 hours on a charge and I especially don't want to deal with all of the Windows programs that all look and function differently. The result is a completely inconsistent experience. I love Windows 7 as a desktop OS, but I don't think I could stand it on a tablet.
And just because Microsoft has been making tablets for longer than anyone else doesn't exactly mean they did a good job. Apple showed them that and now everyone is scrambling to come out with a competitor and--surprise surprise--they're not running Windows 7.
I have high hopes pinned to the inevitable release of Windows 8 and if they can make the Metro UI a universal design theme that developers should stick to only then will a Windows-powered tablet be able to provide an experience as consistent as iOS.
OGCF said:
I have high hopes pinned to the inevitable release of Windows 8 and if they can make the Metro UI a universal design theme that developers should stick to only then will a Windows-powered tablet be able to provide an experience as consistent as iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A windows 8 tablet that could run WP7 apps would be the best solution and not at all impossible.
But if MS delivers on the UE and UI enhancements purported for Windows 8, there probably will be little need for WP7 apps. I'm guessing power consumption would improve with the newer mobile chipsets and OS enhancements.
OGCF said:
It just hit me after today's HP WebOS event that Microsoft is the last big competitor without a real tablet OS (that isn't a thrown-together Windows 7).
Apple has the iPad with iOS.
RIM has the Playbook with QNX.
Google has the Xoom/G-Slate and more with Android 3.0
HP (formerly Palm) has the Touchpad with WebOS 3.0
I know everyone has been on Microsoft's case for tablets, but now they should be really panicking. I'm not sure it's enough to just have WP7 on smartphones anymore if it wants to build a competing ecosystem. The most frustrating part of all of this is that Microsoft really has nailed it better than the rest of these with really deep multimedia features from Zune, Xbox Live services, and a genuinely unique UI.
A couple of months ago, people kept saying Microsoft needs to make WP7 for tablets right that moment. I didn't believe them back then but now I think Microsoft is seriously in trouble. Tablets are going to cannibalize laptop/netbook sales soon and one of the top PC manufacturers, HP, is even pushing WebOS on to laptops later this year. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve with Windows 8 and cross-compatibility with WP7, I am beginning to worry about the long term plan here.
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Click to collapse
I consider Win7 to be the perfect tablet OS. I would rather use Win7 on any tablet than any of the tablet-specific OS currently available, even the iPad's iOS. In fact, it is one reason I'm considering a netbook, because of Win7. The way I look at it, a netbook, to me, is a supercharged tablet with a physical keyboard....lack of touchscreen, no consequence.
put on a physical keyboard and Win7 becomes usable. For a proper touchscreen tablet I think Win7 (or any Win for that matter) really blows. Not touch friendly at all.
I have 2 Android tablets and 1 Win7 tablet. The Win7 tablet is a 10.2" capacitive. If I need to do something Win specific then I use the Win tablet, otherwise Android is first choice. If MS could give Win7 a touch friendly UI they would have a winner IMO.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk
I've got an HP TM2 which is basically is a laptop with a touchscreen. The screen turns through 180 degrees and folds flat over the keyboard and turns the machine into a Windows 7 tablet.
I bought it to see how much I would use it as a tablet, compared to how much I'd use it as a normal laptop.
My conclusion after several months is that I use it as a laptop 90% of the time. The main reasons for this are;
1) As a tablet you have to hold it, or rest it against something. In laptop mode I just place it on a table or my lap and I have both hands free for typing, and I can still use the touchscreen.
2) Typing anything on a touchscreen is a pain - you have to grasp the machine with one hand and type with the other, or find a way to prop it up on something if you want to use two fingers. Frankly it's a pain and I always ended up swapping back to laptop mode and using the hardware keyboard
In conclusion I don't personally rate tablets at all - like netbooks I think they're a fad that we will eventually get over and go back to laptops.
I for one will stick with my TM2 - I do like being able to use the touchscreen aspects of Windows 7 and occasionally flip it into tablet mode if the whim takes me, but tablet mode in no way replaces the laptop mode. Just no way.
An iPad would drive me mad!
I've been using WP7 on my HD7 since October.
On an almost daily basis, I think to myself that this OS would be magnificent on a larger (7 or 10 inch screen), with panaramas expanded out to a widescreen format.
With WP7, the lines are so clean and the text so large and clear that it seems ideal for a tablet. App developers would not need to dramatically re-engineer their apps for the different resolution. WP7, as a platform, does not require dual processors, TEGRA and all of that, so they could easily build a light and long-battery-life tablet with WP7 as the platform.
I would imagine there is major friction at MS regarding the future of MS tablets; the Windows team want to see Windows 7 (or some flavour of it) running on a tablet, whereas I'm sure the WP7 team can see the immediate advantages of upscaling WP7 to a tablet OS (finger-friendly out of the box, app store already established etc.
To be perfectly honest, I couldn't see myself enjoying Windows 7 on a tablet. Installing apps, arsing around with disk cleanup every few months, constantly installing Windows Updates, dealing with legacy apps specifically designed for a mouse and definitely not a finger... would totally take the fun out of a tablet. WP7 is fun! Put that on a tablet! Think of the following apps, modified slightly to take advantage of the widescreen format, running on a WP7 tablet:
Netflix
Cocktail Flow
Amazon Kindle Reader
IMDB app
Twitter
Facebook
Flickr from Yahoo
Pictures app
Messaging
Microsoft seriously seem to be missing a trick here.
the actual reason windows phone apps would work so well on tablets is because it is silverlight. and silverlight was initially designed for a desktop, meaning it was designed with varied resolution in mind. then it was ported to the phone, so really silverlight is the ideal solution for any screen size, big or small.
Microsoft has been doing tablets for 10 years. They just never really tweaked it for touch friendliness. Plus they've been expensive as hell.
This stuff is old to Microsoft , but somehow they seem to be playing catch up as usual.
Windows running on ARM sounds interesting in theory, but what about applications? Adobe will have to release Photoshop for ARM as well if you want to use it there.
And if it will be limited to managed code (Silverlight/XNA/whatever/.Net) then there's no point in having the "big" version there.
There are enough tablets on this planet already. We don't need more, it's not a big deal if MS does not have a tablet. MS has a lot of things most of its competitors don't have and they are not crying about it. God
PROJECT
I am currently working on an SNES emulator for windows phone.
The silverlight code has been found, now I just need to port.
Anyone who can help is certainly welcome. Just shoot me up a PM!
MOCKUPS ATTACHED
Interesting, Thought it could not be done (hardware limitations) sounds good, I'll be watching this one...
Of course it's possible, there are fully working SNES emu's for android that runs great on the HD2
Implemented how?
IzaacJ said:
Of course it's possible, there are fully working SNES emu's for android that runs great on the HD2
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Do you happen to know how those emulators are programmed? Are they native ARM code, or are they Java?
A SNES emulator for WP7 that runs on any phone (not just unlocked ones) has to be built in C#, and it's by no way already given that this runs fast enough, IMHO. Random hickups caused by the GC thrown in for extra fun
rbrunner7 said:
Do you happen to know how those emulators are programmed? Are they native ARM code, or are they Java?
A SNES emulator for WP7 that runs on any phone (not just unlocked ones) has to be built in C#, and it's by no way already given that this runs fast enough, IMHO. Random hickups caused by the GC thrown in for extra fun
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Yea, the other...AKA Android and WM6/6.5 device has native access to the OS and hardware. Windows Phone 7 gets close but, ONLY on a fully unlocked device. Maybe we will see better access to the system in Windows Phone 8 but, time will tell.
Anyone could use a photo editing software and create an image (you missed the top 2 buttons btw) but, creating a app that needs direct hardware access that it cant have, is a different story.
If you were to only create this for fully unlocked devices would be great but, it limits the people who will use it.
DavidinCT said:
If you were to only create this for fully unlocked devices would be great but, it limits the people who will use it.
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I say DON'T DISCOURAGE HIM!
I'd love to have a snes emulator on my lumia 710. Perhaps we'll see a SURGE in native app development? there certainly was when the ZuneHD was "unlocked"
more apps = more incentive for full unlocks. Just look at it as extending the life of our newly "abandoned" devices.
**David and Rbrunner are right though - don't port a silverlight based emulater... the performance would be terrible
evilgenius31 said:
I say DON'T DISCOURAGE HIM!
I'd love to have a snes emulator on my lumia 710. Perhaps we'll see a SURGE in native app development? there certainly was when the ZuneHD was "unlocked"
more apps = more incentive for full unlocks. Just look at it as extending the life of our newly "abandoned" devices.
**David and Rbrunner are right though - don't port a silverlight based emulater... the performance would be terrible
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Dont get your hopes up. It's already been said, it will be very hard, if not impossable the way WP7 is locked down. Windows Phone 8 will have native code access. I bet anyone looking to create a SNES emulator who knows what is involved, would wait for WP8, it just makes sence and you wont have to deal with the direct hardware issues that you will have with WP7....
I'd bet its a total No-No for WP7 devices, sorry...
Hey guys
I love its design,but I know windows RT does not support X86 apps. This is my concern.Compared to app store, windows market sucks.I recently learnt that there is a way to root windows RT and make it launch x86 apps. Did anyone try? Can I launch full version chrome or XBMC on rooted windows RT?
Alexsandra said:
Hey guys
I love its design,but I know windows RT does not support X86 apps. This is my concern.Compared to app store, windows market sucks.I recently learnt that there is a way to root windows RT and make it launch x86 apps. Did anyone try? Can I launch full version chrome or XBMC on rooted windows RT?
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First of all, this belongs in Surface General, not RT development. Secondly, there is a thread where you can see what apps have been tried, and how they worked (don't expect much at all right now): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 also realize that development is ongoing. There is also a thread for native app ports: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348
I personally recommend the Surface very much if you are a student (Office is preloaded) and don't NEED to run any desktop apps, like Photoshop. Go for it!
C-Lang said:
First of all, this belongs in Surface General, not RT development. Secondly, there is a thread where you can see what apps have been tried, and how they worked (don't expect much at all right now): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 also realize that development is ongoing. There is also a thread for native app ports: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348
I personally recommend the Surface very much if you are a student (Office is preloaded) and don't NEED to run any desktop apps, like Photoshop. Go for it!
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Thanks. I am not a student. I just want to try a new style stuff. I own a iPad2,but you know it doesn't work like a real laptop.
Alexsandra said:
Did anyone try? Can I launch full version chrome or XBMC on rooted windows RT?
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Estimated x86 performance is about 0.1Ghz. Microsoft DOS era basically. So no, chrome and XBMC will not work via x86 emulation. Notepad or something along the lines of the original doom *may* work.
The jailbreak does not allow running of x86 programs. It allows running on 3rd party applications on the desktop of which just one is an x86 emulator.
Your best hope is for chromium (open source builds of chrome) or XBMC to be ported to RT natively. Chromium is definitely being worked on but has a huge list of dependencies and is an incredibly complicated piece of software believe it or not. XBMC I honestly have no idea if anyone is working on that, it also has a horrific list of dependancies I think.
x86 emulation on RT is awesome but your best bet is for people to release native ARM builds for applications and they will be far and few in between. If you dont want to wait for that then look at an intel atom powered tablet running full windows 8.
Surface
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Estimated x86 performance is about 0.1Ghz. Microsoft DOS era basically. So no, chrome and XBMC will not work via x86 emulation. Notepad or something along the lines of the original doom *may* work.
The jailbreak does not allow running of x86 programs. It allows running on 3rd party applications on the desktop of which just one is an x86 emulator.
Your best hope is for chromium (open source builds of chrome) or XBMC to be ported to RT natively. Chromium is definitely being worked on but has a huge list of dependencies and is an incredibly complicated piece of software believe it or not. XBMC I honestly have no idea if anyone is working on that, it also has a horrific list of dependancies I think.
x86 emulation on RT is awesome but your best bet is for people to release native ARM builds for applications and they will be far and few in between. If you dont want to wait for that then look at an intel atom powered tablet running full windows 8.
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Or go with a Surface Pro and you can have everything you want
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Your best hope is for chromium (open source builds of chrome) or XBMC to be ported to RT natively. Chromium is definitely being worked on but has a huge list of dependencies and is an incredibly complicated piece of software believe it or not. XBMC I honestly have no idea if anyone is working on that, it also has a horrific list of dependancies I think.
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XBMC requires a number of libraries that only build with GCC.
forget about it
I have already given up RT device after I read your replies. It looks like that Surface pro is my best option,but it doesnt have slim body and long-lasting battery(compared to iPad,it sucks). I dont think of any atom device due to its poor performance. Hoping one day surface pro could be a amazing device that owns slim body and long-lasting battery and high performance.
Atom CPUs will generally perform similarly or slightly better than ARM ones (iPads, incidentally, use ARM, as does Windows RT). I believe there are benchmarks that you can use to compare the performance of different tablets, including the iPad and various Atom models, if performance is such a concern to you.
Alexsandra said:
I have already given up RT device after I read your replies. It looks like that Surface pro is my best option,but it doesnt have slim body and long-lasting battery(compared to iPad,it sucks). I dont think of any atom device due to its poor performance. Hoping one day surface pro could be a amazing device that owns slim body and long-lasting battery and high performance.
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You could definitely go with an atom device. They will have enough power for everyday tasks (unless you use something like PhotoShop). Also I've seen videos and benchmarks, and it boots faster, and runs at about equivalent speed as Windows RT. Good luck in your search! :fingers-crossed: Oh, and the best thing you could do is walk into a Microsoft store and try everything out! :good:
Even the cedar trail atoms seem pretty competitive performance wise with my 5 year old laptop (which does get the usual disk cleanups, defrags and removal of any bloat I find etc). Let alone the clover trails in these windows 8 tablets. Took my laptop round a mates to compare with his netbook, found that the cedar trail was universally slower which was obvious but by surprisingly negligible amounts. Minecraft had a 2fps difference, Visual studio for the same solution file took 0.2 seconds longer to compile, boot times were identical, time to load a 5000 character open office document (same one of course) in libre office was immeasurably different.
1.6ghz dual core with hyper threading and 2gb of RAM vs a 2ghz intel celeron single core without any hyperthreading and 3gb of RAM (well, Its registered in windows as not having hyperthreading, there isnt a bios option for it either). Both were of course using the normal intel integrated graphics.
Honestly, people say that the atom is slow, celeron must also be slow (which it probably is, mine is 5 years old and was hardly cutting edge at the time).
Personally I am looking at getting an intel atom powered device, unless someone manages to release an i5 device with a decent battery at a low price which they won't, besides, I dont need that boost in power. Everything that does need that much power I can do on my desktop.