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I'm starting this thread out of enthusiasm for my new Touch HD. I recently "lost" my Athena when my wife neglected to grab it with my laptop while exiting a taxi. I had my baby daughter in my hands and didn't realise that she wasn't aware of my phone as well as my laptop. So... Out with the old and in with the new.
First off, the Touch HD is beautiful. A lot of people are posting videos of the Touch HD and the iPhone, side by side. Of course, we get most of these videos through youtube, and of course the iPhone always looks brighter.
Let's get something out of the way, the iPhone has a capacitive screen. That means there's no metalic film between the lcd screen and your eyes (edit)(Touch HD has a resistive screen, there's a metalic layer there... .
So, brighter it is. What you won't notice with youtube (on account of crap resolution) is just how clear everything is on the Touch HD in comparison to the iPhone.
I've owned two iPhones in the past, and I'm happy to say goodbye to freezing apps, or altogether phone freezes. (edit) before people argue with me, yes the Touch HD freezes from time to time, but usually when I'm pressing it too hard with apps or a new rom. If I use it like normal it won't freeze... Not something I can say about my iphones...)
Something else to smile about is, although the user interface of winmo phones isn't as user friendly as say an iPhone, it is however a lot more open to customization. Let's face it, who wants to have to open a stupid proprietary application like iTunes (god I'm sick of the small i now...) just to transfer some music or videos?
How about the fact that itunes (see, I'm not doing it anymore) renames videos, creating problems like not knowing which episode of a season you're watching? I don't care how much Steve Jobbs loves himself or his visions of a software utopia, to me, control and variation is everything when it comes to something I OWN.
We use computers enough to begin to take for granted, copy, paste, click, and drag. Own an iphone (still not capitalizing the second letter ) for a while and you'll soon come to miss something so easily taken for granted otherwise. I love just dragging the music, videos, and files directly from a directory on my computer to my phone. It's just so damn good...
I should thank Steve Jobbs for creating a device that would remind me how much better windows devices are than the iphone. "Thanks Steve, your phone sucks, but the lesson learned will stay with me for life."
Now, another thing I truly love about my Touch HD (and winmo phones in general) is having access to my file system on the phone itself. Let's face it, it rocks simply put.
I like being able to watch videos in my mobile browser (with a third party browser like opera of course) and not be limited to the youtube app like we see on the iphone (iHabit broken?) This just adds to the constant smiles on my face on account of the small surprises provided to use the winmo community.
I am probably forgetting a lot of things (actually, my hand is broken so I'm being lazy and knowingly neglecting to list more), but I can't forget what just may be the biggest combination that puts a smile on my face with this phone.
Flashing custom roms, and the excellent community here at xda. If I had only my winmo phone and the official rom, it'd be a pretty cool phone on account of it's inherent features (read above), but the mere fact that there's just so much support, and an ongoing river of new software, roms, and support here at xda, just makes this phone a constant surprise.
You can unlock, and jailbreak the iphone, you can skin it, theme it, and add software, but nothing and nowhere even close to that which is possible on a winmo phone, and it's thanks entirely to the individuals programming software, porting things, and cooking excellent roms.
Because of this and so many other facts, I will continue to choose winmo devices, and more importantly, keep a smile on my face while modding, flashing, cabbing, and downright enjoying the one I have now.
Caid.
Sorry, last edit. Just a note to all new users of the Touch HD. Use the wiki, I know the forum says that, but hear it from a user. The wiki for this phone is absolutely beautiful and really is a step by step on doing EVERYTHING you will want to do. It's not confusing, it's not difficult to follow, it's software community perfection in one spot.
So... USE THE WIKI.
Agreed!
It is funny, because people keep saying that they get turned off a phone because it is WinMo - I am the opposite, I get turned off because it /isn't/ WinMo! Honestly, I think we can all put up with some occasional glitches for a system the is /completely/ customisable.
Having said that...I am not an iPhone hater. I think the iPhone is great for people who are used to have non-smart-phones (dumb phones?) or PDAs, who don't have time/not willing to learn how to use one and are not particularly tech-savvy. iPhones are designed to just work out of the box - if you're not prepared to fiddle around with your phone to get the best out of it, go iPhone.
But if you're willing to play around, to take a few risks and to just have some fun with your phone...WinMo is the way to go (or Android, I guess).
Also, I can honestly say that xda forums are the only app store I need
Thanks for all the roms/apps/fixes guys!
nicely said
I don't hate the iphone myself, I've just used it long enough not to like it very much either. I got sucked into the iphone craze, how fluid the OS is, and how smooth it is. But then I used a nice winmo phone and realised all the wonderful things I can do with it. I have control. Another important thing about winmo phones is the fact that it has a great learning curve. If someone isn't tech savvy and just wants a phone, they got it. But for someone like me, I like something that takes a LONG time to really figure out. Getting into custom roms, rom kitchens, tweaking apps, registry editors, home made software, is just not an iphone option.
Caid.
not to mention that it's easier to develop useful software for winmo devices
i tried using the I am rich crap instead of ArcPad... guess who did the job
I also forgot to include the fact that with all these apps, roms, themes, tweaks...it's like having a something new to play with all the time!
Pretty much means that I shouldn't get bored of my phone any time soon =D
iphone always looked like a toy phone with it functions to me. Come on - no navigation, limited phone functions, limited software, no mms, crappy 3g. It is like an overgrown music/video player with not so great resolution and aside some phone functions. blah
mmm
I love my Touch HD Cause :
Screen the REs is HUGE and very clear .. butter then the Iphone
MMs and vid's.. look soo sexy .. widescreen etc.. better then teh Iphone
the touch is not as good as the iphone.. multi aspcet etc. but it's better then my original touch ....
I love the Winmo.. as much as I hate Microsoft, cause it's links with everything.. it's so good I use it as 8GB pen drive.. I always have it on me .. and can take it every where .. !!
hmm..
You know, let's be honest about the iphone, it's not better or worse than winmo phones, it's just different. For a lot of people who want a movie/music player, it's a great phone. It's just not ideal for people who want to dissect and customize. As I stated earlier, being able to load custom roms on my phone is what really floats my boat.
Again, my phone isn't better than an iphone on a grand scale, it's just better than an iphone for me. And when I buy a phone, that's what matters.
Caid.
Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
I love WM. The TP was actually my first WMPhone and I really loved customizing it, ROMs, and in general HTC as a company. Easy tethering, tons of detail, thousands of programs. I hated the TP battery, waited six months for the TP2 to finally come out and changed to Tmo just to not wait anymore. Obviously, I'm a (relatively new) fan.
However, in all my reading and browsing, and mixing and matching Roms and programs, I got annoyed with the endless glitches. It seemed customizing was a chore to fill gaps half the time. And so I waited to hear about WP7.
On a random decision, after loading DualBoot and Android on my TP2, I bought a Nexus One just to have the Snapdragon and multitouch (HD2 announced for Tmo like 3 days later lol). But I kept my ears open for WP7 and totally expected to move back in October.
I know you guys are all WinMo, but to be honest this has to be a common feeling. Look how popular Android on TP has become. We have been looking for something, but wanting it to be windows.
So, the point: my experience.
A.) the nexus one has made me sorely miss a keyboard. However other than that I actually like it. The battery is at least equal to TP2. Things that are chores on WMo are easy on Android, like Fbook integration of contacts and maintaining stability. Having several open programs is such a non-issue battery wise and slowdown wise that there isnt even a freaking task manager or close program button. You have to download a program, and its not that common. You just leave everything open. Zero slowdown. Same battery, more or less. I don't think its superior to WM, more like a close cousin that doesnt share the bad family traits. In the present climate, Android is very similar to WM.
B.) and now the hard part. WP7 looks nice. Looks great actually. Devices will surely be as cool as always. But set aside your loyalty and look: what do you tell your friends you like about WM, why you stay with it? Customization. Open program downloading and creation. EFFORTLESS MULTITASKING. Endless differentiation between companies, UI's, and phones. Where the $%^& is what we love in WP7? Complicated, apparently limited, multitasking that sounds too much like Iphone. Closed development. Limited, almost meaningless so far, customization. Closed App environment. The best anyone can come up with so far about differentiation is adding freaking keyboards and hardware colors. Does anyone now wonder why HTC started shifting more support, and Sense, to Android?
As much as I hate to say it, I will probably stick with Android unless WP7 pulls something great out. It looks great, but so does the Iphone and that is not something I consider wanting. My nexus one has everything I love about htc, and adds in perfect stability and customization. Hardly anyone bothers posting apps online, but only because the Market lets basically anything in! Tethering apps, rooting apps, whatever. Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.
WP7 does not appeal to me at this time with its current UI. They should have hired SPB mobile shell to create their UI.
I like most droid devices (not the motodroid) and the OS is extremely responsive and easy to understand. Haven't done any detailed work w/ the andoird OS, but WinMo customization is what keeps me here.
I agree Trev.
I believe the software industry, much like the music and film (big and small screens) industries, is changing. Open source is the way forwards as people are more able to communicate with each other the need for centralised programming is going to more and more take a back seat.
This means margins will be cut and I'll be supprised if MS, being such a large organisation will be able to keep up. Maybe this the reason for the speculation on WM7 being locked down, so they can have a greater control over revenues. I've read an article which mentioned that MS consider Linux to be a virus that gets into profitable areas of business and destroys the margins. That attitude won't get them anywhere.
I don't think WM7 will have anything new. MS are in the business of preserving what they have and not winning new customers. WM7 will be safe, not amazing.
Android is new so nothing is set in stone. It will be more flexible, open to new ideas and will grow it's market share. They let pretty much anything into their app store which will allow anyone to have a go, not just a centralised "elite". This will help to keep it new too because it's not just the same people going through the motions because it pays the bills. The is what keeps this forum alive.
The MS business model is dying and being replaced with something that's better for the consumer. Much like the short haul airline industry changed
trevorwhopkins said:
Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely right! Wouldn't surprise me if google is working on an OS for the pc. If they are I would be scared if I were MS.
On another note, i'm not sure what people mean when they compare winmo to android customization. You can customize android just as much as you can custimize winmo. Do these people ever visit the android forums and see all the customization people are doing with their android phones? Any hard core winmo fan will not miss customization moving from winmo to android. I just think some people are having a hard time letting go.
I have also felt like this for a while. Mainly due to being given an MSM7200 for 3 years! Sure there is the HD2 with the snapdragon but that doesn't have AT&T 3G bands and a couple other WM phones with it too, but none that I like.
I would have switched to Android (and still will) if a phone comes out that meets these requirements:
1) WVGA Screen
2) Snapdragon
3) NICE keyboard, comparable to TP2. This is the best keyboard I have ever used.
4) AT&T 3G bands.
The only phone that comes close is the Motorola Milestone on Telus (unlockable). It doesn't have a snapdragon but a decent processor. Its keyboard also sucks.
Google do have an OS. It's called Chrome, like the browser, and it based on Ubuntu.
And Microsoft seems to be basing their business on people not letting go. It's sad really, I wish they'd try harder
I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
I got the Tilt 2 because I wanted a qwerty keyboard, with a large very high quality touch screen as well. And I did not want an internal HD like iPhones, I want interchangeable light weight cheap storage cards! That gives me unlimited storage. All that, on AT&Ts service plan.
It did not hurt that it cost me $50 to upgrade from my Fuze to the Tilt 2!
If Microsoft would open up WinMO so the different phone manufactures could customize the OS for each phone, companies like HTC could do amazing things with WinMO.
I honestly wish HTC would update their software for their phones more often.
Keep TILT2 or wait a few more months???
Deleted due to duplication Here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5679065#post5679065
enahs_ said:
I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
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Click to collapse
I disagree. But then again, they keyword here is "me". To you they're overall the same. Which is somewhat of a true statement. They both lend themselves to customization and both have plenty of funtionality. But where Android sets itself apart is speed and stability, which I would take anyday. What good is a phone that has all this functionality, when half the time the functionality doesn't function properly or you have to tweak the hell out of the OS to get it to work properly.
So, So true
I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted.
I remember starting a thread that really ticked a lot of people off. Just mentioning how Android was what real functionality and customization should be like and BAM!, flame city.
When it was just Windows Mobile or another smartphone option(you can name them), there was no choice. Now with Android, I feel I have made the most equitable of the choices. And the little pleasures of the choice I have made are the reason that it would take a game changer of a WindowsPhone7 to make me think of going back. The lack of weekly(with the best of Roms) or daily resets(just to keep the phone fresh), glitches, memory leaks(a given), freezes, weird pauses and the like, which rank as my largest pet peeves, are my joys with Android. I have reset the phone twice in 3 weeks only to change a memory card and another time just because. Not one freeze, slowdown, memory leak, not in what's going on a month, which I can't say of the TP2 in the same time period. Which was the motivation to flash it. After agreeing on the almost overwhelmingly unanimous feeling that it was the best shipped Rom in a long time!
Yeah, no more of that for me , thanks....
I agree. If Windows "Phone" 7 is going to be as rigid as the other mobile operating systems are now; where's the fun in that? Personally, what NRGZ28 has done with his EnergyROMs especially his most latest is why I bought this device in the first place; he did remarkable work with the Wing. That's me! The work these folks do is nothing short of outstanding; all of them. Now, I don't know enough about the Android devices other than there is a whole lot of folks liking them but everybody I've talked to who looks at what I've done to my TP2; their eyeballs and tongue roll out of their heads; they can't believe it can be done and with the latest ROM I have on my device at first glance they think they're looking at the HD2 (Leo). If Windows "Phone" 7 (I'll never get use to calling it that) is going to follow the path of everybody else then you're probably going to see the bulk of us jump ship; but what cannot be dismissed is are we the majority or are we the minority? My Wing was living proof Windows Mobile 6.5 could run on it as were many of the Windows Mobile devices out there at the time. But smart phones like desktops are becoming as powerful as netbooks today; maybe notebooks. I've had my desktop PC for years but clearly the software today is forcing me to consider a new PC with 4, 6 and 8 GBs of RAM; my current PC maxes out at 512mbs. I've read good reviews about Windows Phone 7 and the moment the HD2 comes out I want it, but I also know the market is going to be flooded with TP2s and they will come down in price as they've already have now from $349.99 to $269.99. What is unknown is how much will the HD2 costs given it's horsepower and upgrades to the US market. We all have to remember there are other devices that will be released after the HD2, for example the Tera, looks like the TP2 with a 600mhz CPU. There is the HD Mini, smaller than it's bigger brother and I'm sure there will be a TP2 style device with the 1GHz Snapdragon maybe clocked higher. I kill to have a HD2, but I also know it is wise to wait. I have read nothing that says it won't be upgraded to Windows Phone 7, though with the exception of XDA, PPC Geeks and other websites; it might be awhile. I've had Windows Mobile 6.5 on my TP2 day one and then on my Wing; it didn't officially release until when; January 20, 2010.
"I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me."
That is the feeling I generally got. I dualbooted android on my TP2 and basically still loved the phone for exact same reasons.
"I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted"
my sentiments exactly. except that full free tethering is available. same way as on wm. with some customization. i just rooted my n1 yesterday and got the tethering. works perfect.
As for new comments since original post... I am ever more convinced I am right. When I finally rooted my phone (much scarier than hardspl'ing my tp2 i must say, though not too difficult. similar to Pre unlocking.) it locked in that I'll stay with Android, unless they release a WP7 phone without the tiles and with full customization. Check out the android forums. I just flashed Sense onto my n1. I almost laughed.
It has the exact same look and feel as Sense on Winmo! Same keyboard. Same dialer, almost, so now I dont miss smartdialing. It even has a version of the sliding homescreen with texts and alarms, etc. It feels exactly like the day I flashed 2.5 onto my TP2... only it didnt hamstring my phone at all. It just worked. Customization is more complicated but ultimately more rewarding and way more usable on Android. It's sad to see so many posts agreeing finally. I figured I would get flamed too. This is a Rhodium forum after all! I will probly try to leave this thread alone to not bother the Rhodium guys. I loved my phone and would never trash it now that I got the n1. But I don't regret it at all. Still miss that fantastic keyboard though.
Oh and to the Milestone loving guy... go try that milestone. The keyboard is a joke to me. Its just like the droid. hard flat keys. At least it's finally centered on the phone though. And its sad someone mentioned the milestone as decent powered, it being a low end Droid. But then again, Android still has the G1, which is so much a joke its why I hesitated to even try Android before 2.1.
One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.
trevorwhopkins said:
One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this. Companies alienate their loyal fanbases all the time in pursuit of of larger sales. There's nothing wrong with niche products, even when influential tech blogs try to declare your mobile OS "dead" even though you still have roughly 20% market share in the space.
I'm with the OP on the original point as well. I've defended WinMo to the death in the face of hordes of iPhone users and what thanks do I get? A dead Moto Q9h (replaced under warranty), a quirky Palm Treo Pro, and a Tilt 2 with a dead touchscreen (also being replaced under warranty). I applaud MSFT for trying to standardize the hardware experience of WP7, but I can't stand the walled-garden, locked-down UI, app store approach. Android is the most logical choice for my next phone - that Dell Mini 5 is looking pretty good.
Retiring my TP2 today. Just had to get that out of my system.
Signed,
Another unsatisfied customer.
Quitter.
You are darn right I am a quitter! And proud of it! I just can't believe I lasted this long.
lame. though i would love an android phone with the form factor of the tp2. the keyboard and tilty screen has made every iphone user i know impossibly jealous. but its not a phone i can recommend because of windows mobile. windows mobile works well, with a custom rom, registry hacks, and custom installed programs. android is just easier out of the box. i look forward to htc releasing an android phone with a good slide out keyboard.
Nobody can blame you for leaving this device. You're the third person who's posted a thread about abandoning the Rhodium, and I doubt you're the last. I'm personally holding out for the HTC Vision and it's beautiful looking QWERTY, but there are so many great options out there it's extremely tempting just to sell my Rhodium on eBay and buy a Desire or some other decent phone right now.
Yeah dude I was originally going to hold out for that HTC Vision also, but I just can't take it any longer. Flashing custom WM ROM's and installing certain cabs and reloading all my tweeks and stuff is just too time consuming. Holy cow do I waste a lot of time reading xda! When you see how fluid some other devices are out there, at some time you have to ask yourself what the point of all this is? There is nothing WM can do that Andoid can not do and better (for me that is). I have tremendous respect for the developers on this site but I think WM is a dying breed. The TP2 should not have been as crippled as it is either.
I dunno, I have to wonder if there's a big difference between your TP2 and my Tilt 2 because I am having very few issues with mine even after modding the hell out of the stock ROM (no compelling reason to go to a cooked one yet). Yeah, WinMo has its issues, but I've been using it since WM2003 on a Viewsonic PDA, so I'm pretty familiar with it. My Tilt 2 does everything I need it to, much like My Incite did. The only reason I upgraded was because I needed a larger screen for my failing eyes. Anyway, I was just ribbing you. I might go to an Android at some point, but for now, my Tilt 2 has me covered. The honeymoon isn't quite over just yet.
I left the party and went over to Android. For me, it was more of a preemptive thing -- WP7 is an abhorrent POS and while I probably would have stuck around if a 4.3" device with WinMo 6.5 was being released, it looks like the TP2 is all she wrote for WinMo.
XDA was absolutely crucial to my being able to use and enjoy my TP2. But I don't have to live with buggy software anymore (actually, the things I got from XDA were stable, but the commercial products were certainly not).
If anyone is interested, Sprint in coming out with the Samsung Epic, a 4" SAMOLED 4G Android device with a slide out keyboard. But I've moved on to the Evo. I've coveted the HD2 and its Snapdragon processor and 4.3" screen for ages.
In the end, MS finally killed whatever enthusiasm I had for the platform.
You know I tried everything. I too modded the stock and still this thing lagged. The best I could do was cooked ROMs but still it was one thing after another that just got me to the point where I was milliseconds away from shattering my phone into a thousand pieces for some gratitude. Talk about rage! I honestly think I have worn out the reset button. And as far as WP7, give me a break. I can't believe that Microsoft is so far behind the game and now they are trying to reinvent the wheel. Cell phones and cell phone technology are a crazy booming and growing business. It's sad when a technology company tries to reverse engineer something because in this day and age by this time it's just too late.
tbh ever since Android came out, i always wanted one but since it started hitting the market, every damn person i know has an Android and it ticks me off because it totally reminds me of how iPhone got all popular, now Android is in that stage, teens are having the Droid incredible, EVO 4Gs its insane because i bet you 95% of them dont even know how to operate it, thats why right now im sticking to my roots by staying with WM because no one knows what the heck it is(except XDA ), i rather have something different from the crowd.....i started with WM and ill hang on to WM until the whole WM thing just dies which probably wont happen for awhile you never know
man thats a tiny slide out keyboard on the vision. im not so sure about that one.
If different is what you are going for then I say stick to WM. Personally for me, I need function and ease of use. To me, Microsoft is their own worst enemy for not delivering without making us spend hours on xda fixing their mistakes. Although it can be fun here on xda, it can be really frustrating as well.
To me, WinMo seems designed by the same people that design the desktop platform and not by people who actually use it every day. Too many things that just don't make sense (but easily fixed by others, fortunately). I think M$ needs to hire a few XDA developers and put them into the development cycle for WinMo. If WinMo 7 isn't a significant improvement it will be the last WinMo version because once the phone manufacturers stop supporting it in favor of Droid and others, death will be imminent.
And when you see Microsoft developing apps for iPhone and Android yet still plug away at their own software ala "Kin the spectacular failure" I can't help but be embarassed to be a part of this. Playing catchup in the tech world is just plain silly to me. Here is an article about it posted 3 days ago:
http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/...developers-to-catch-up-to-iphone-and-android/
Don't know if everyone's already seen this:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bother-disaster-211
"The developers at Mobile Beat quickly recognized the labor-intensity of this UI method and one asked the Microsoft rep if anyone had bothered to test it with users. The answer was essentially "no" -- a scary thought indeed."
Sounds just like what I said earlier.
Hanson68 said:
Don't know if everyone's already seen this:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bother-disaster-211
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Click to collapse
Then, be sure to read this as well.
I dunno, maybe it's because I've been using WinMo since 2003 but I'm comfortable with it. The biggest problem is there are still remnants in the 6.x versions being used on phones from when it was ported from PDAs back with version 5. Too much stuff designed for a stylus and not a finger. Another problem is that WinMo is not designed for idiots like iPhone users who have no concept of the level of customization that WinMo allows. I like that I have to be more knowledgeable to get the most out of my WinMo phone. It means I can more readily identify when something doesn't work right and why and fix it myself. I also love that I can make my phone more personal and not look like anyone elses. Every iPhone I've ever played around on, with the exception of what apps were on it, was identical to every other one in looks and function. Maybe this is OK for those with limited ability to mod their own phone, but I'm a tinkerer by nature and it would drive me crazy. Been modding my phone since my first RAZR way back in 2006 and wouldn't have it any other way.
I also like that I'm not tied to any one company for apps. For all the complaints I hear about so few developers writing for WinMo I have yet to not find an app for my needs. In fact, there are usually about 4-5 apps that do the same thing and almost always at least one is free. Sure, some are crap, but choice is a good thing. Certainly much better than limits.
I love my Windows Mobile phone and if WP7 improves on it even just a little, I'll probably stick with it.
Personally, I am really liking my WinMo 6.5 tilt 2. Yes, it has a cooked ROM and a few other tweaks, but so did my iphone that I had before this Tilt2. IMHO, as far as useability, and business is concerned, the Tilt2 is all business and not so much a toy (which is what I look for in a phone, since I run a home business from it.).
Scott
I think anybody who has taken the time to flash a custom rom for themselves here can be considered a power user. Everybody on this board wants more than the next guy. But what do you do when you've been let down and this place just isn't enough anymore? I have had Windows CE devices since 2002 and as silly as this sounds, my favorite device was my old T-mobile MDA with WM 5.0. Why? Because it worked. Now I realize that we are trying to do a lot more with our devices, but even simple tasks like text messaging and the actual phone part seems to get worse with each new OS. When I watch the videos for WP7 I am very let down. Customization is key to the MS fanbase. So the things that I would like are either getting worse or going away. Why MS didn't just turn over the whole program to XDA is a real mystery isn't it? Since I honestly think that we are the only ones who really care.
Does anyone think that the iPhone os and Android have helped kill the "smartfone"?
It seems these os's are intended for mainstream use, kind of like the symbian os a few years back where kid's, mom's and dad's used a nokia or even a motorola. While the business or tech heads used windows mobile for PC-like functionality.
Microsoft have dumbed down their w7 phone software to the point my grandmother, or 10 yr old brother could and would be sold one of these (as long as he had cash lol), in hope to compete against these new mainstream os's that are extreamly competitive already and not the business or tech-head market the os seemed to be initially intended for.
It seems the software design is focused on people updating their facebook status or tweeting that they are taking a dump, and not really using them for work purposes at all.
With windows phone 7 am i going to be able to work with basic word, excel and pdf docs? Will I be able to use remote desktop or setup multiple outlook email accounts? Will alot of the programs i use on pc be available in windows 7 phone format? I cant seem to find much info, all the reviews ive seen seem to concentrate on its "social networking features", or show its "image gallery" and uninspired UI.
A smartfone is suppose to be a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities. The iPhone and Android have pretty much become mainstream os's, so i personally wouldnt call them advanced devices, they are simply the 2009-10 standard device, a touchscreen multimedia phone with 3g connections. And windows 7 phone looks like its the same. I think Apple and Google have taken 2 steps forward and microsoft have taken 1 back. Leaving us with no real advanced mobile phone or os as they are all now on par, with android looking the most positive of these mainstream os's.
So if its not aimed at the business or hi-tech market, what are we going to buy? I wonder if we will all be trying to hack the windows mobile 6.5 os onto these new devices in the near future to get some multitasking business features and PC-like functionality back? Im sure it would run great on the new hardware hehe.
You are quite right IMHO, but there is simple reason for that.
MS was targetting PocketPC platform, giving "full PC in your pocket"-like experience. This was for techs, administrators, but not for teenagers eagerly wanting to touch their phones without stylus, browsing internet, having thousands of animations AND HAVING IT SIMPLE. With Apple and later Google coming out with platform that actually allows you to simply and naturally touch the screen with your finger without using stylus, do simple things simple way (and disabling the hard things, because why would teenager need eg PuTTY right, for security and having out of box experience "it works" without installing ton of software, going through registry etc), MS's sales are slowly moving towards 0. And now, MS is targetting those teenagers, giving them all Facebook integrated in contacts, with simple UI and powerful base for making rich applications and games.
That part is good, that MS restarted whole Phone experience, giving minimal requirements so no more sluggish phones (just look on even HD2, needing patching driver for GPU and so on), creating whole UI rendered on DirectX, having new kernel, thus having it all like.. superfast.
On the other hand, they locked it down as hell. No teenager (except me ) wants to go through registry, they just want to have ton of apps on marketplace, and ton of games they can play. No manual googling for stuff, direct access from phone with cool UI. That's it.
I wanted to say something more, but I forgot what I wanted lol.
// ohh remembered:
Let's skip the definition "Smartphone is PocketPC without touchscreen", and say how do I feel difference between Smartphone and PocketPC.
I see smartphone as being something stupid with some internal APIs, integration option. (iOS, Android)
And I see PocketPC as being full PC in my pocket. Because of screen size, CPU power, RAM etc, it ofc has to be redesigned a lot. But the main idea "do what you want anyhow you want" must be there. It isn't in case of Smartphone (WinMo, partially Android).
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
krjcook said:
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
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This. The OSs might have been dumbed down, but at the core, it's all what applications you use to run on them. I am way more productive with my iPhone than I ever have been an other smartphone before then, and I will be with WP7 more so with it's amazing Office integrations
can you elaborate on the office integrations? Are there new office features that we havent seen on mw6.5?
If you are more productive on your iPhone than on wm6.5 are you using it for business/pc-like features or for social multimedia use?
Im just disapointed that they seem to have locked down the device, dumbed the UI to a point it actually looks like a really bad skinning attempt to conserve ram lol. The first pics i saw of the w7phone i thought must have been someones photoshop attempt at a joke. I lol'd then got a look of concern on my face as I realised they were real pics.
They are trying to enter into a mainstream teenage market already accomodated by the iPhone and now android. Leaving the traditional "pc in your pocket-business user" market with a void.
I personally dont tweet, dont use facebook, and would never use a xbox live service while im taking notes on my device in a meeting. I regularly work on my home/work pc through remote desktop. Use the calendar to set appointments, browse multiple websites at once and generally run 2-3 apps at the same time. I regularly use word and excel, and always sync my business/personal emails from by pc each morning.
I suppose the question is will wm7 be right for me? I would have preferred them to concentrate on new touch friendly business applications, handwriting recognition and smarter gui, not concentrate on social networks and games which make it seem to much like a teenagers phone. If these features i need are there that will be great and ill consider it. If not I think ill have to look into being converted into an androidian and lay my pc in my pocket to rest in a safe place as one of the last of its kind
Many of us wonder how it will be.
From the sales point of view, you have to simplify and make more eye candy
to increase your sales 10 or 100 times.
Just count how many Communicators Nokia sold, or HTC TyTn II's
and compare to iPhone.
But it's possible that following the smartphone's expansion
users beeing more conscious will want more functionality
which will be brought back........
I'm very happy with better cameras and screens though.
And hardware became so strong too.
So not all is lost.
THE ONLY QUESTION is if Microsoft is willing to bring all those missing things
or not........................
I pray for the resurrection of the PPC!
If I had this
Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej7sf4uonI
If it was the shape and size of the HD2, I would be in love again!
Yes it would appar that MS is moving to a more of a "walled garden" approach
yeah that sony in hd2 form factor would be great, i was hoping the tp3 would have been a similar device. Bring back the ppc! hehe.
anhyeuemmaimai said:
"walled garden"
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Otherwise known as prison
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
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Click to collapse
More like safety. I'll keep my guaranteed updates through one provider thank you very much.
I dont see why you are complaining about the path that manufacturers are going today.
It is easy to know WHY they make advanced devices simpler to use, (to get a broader consumer base).
And I must admit I will miss the usability of winmo, but when you think about it, who uses the original UI of that OS? It's all skinned for eyecandy and simplicity to the end user.
So I would like you to see the bright side of this: The HTC TP2 will cost next to nothing very soon (well its darn right cheap already!). And it seems it has all you need!
For taking notes who needs 1ghz, right?
So I consider it a win-win situation for you, cheap phones with the functionality you require
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
The concerns are understandable, but I wouldn't say MS is abandoning the business user. In fact, I would state they are allowing the business user to encompass the newer business model also which includes facebook, twitter and other social mediums. Since you don't use either (directed to the OP) you may have missed that nearly every large corporation has a Facebook page and many are using Twitter to stay in touch with their user base.
The business model of marketing has changed dramatically in the last 5 years and I wouldn't give the credit to either the Iphone or Android, but to the social marketing that occurs with mediums such as Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, etc... I must admit that I fought being a part of these as did many of my friends (ages 35-42), but truth is they work great when it comes to actually being in contact with each other and for a business, it's customer base. Word of mouth has always been the true back bone of these businesses growing and these social mediums all take word of mouth and expand it's power by the millionth.
I applaud MS for actually creating a brand new ui and os to take advantage of both. If you are really concerned with your ability to be productive on the machine look at the many videos we've seen so far. You still have outlook, the office suite, etc... I am unsure if remote desktop will remain available but I believe it will in WP7.
The people who are left out are us nerds. The systems are lockdowned for now on and we get left out the loop, but we buy less phones than the clones do even if we are the reason these things work out properly with all of our experimenting, rom chefs and willingingness to beta test any and everything that comes our way.
ok, so I'm enjoying my Desire's speed and stability compared to my WiMo HTC Touch HD. I can still use Word and Excell and synchronize email and calendars, etc. But there is one thing I am missing: handwriting recognition. Now people will tell me to use Swype (which I am) but it's still not the same thing. With the stylus and handwriting recognition I used to sit in meetings and take notes for real. Now it somehow does not work as well and I also feel a little like a joke swyping. I am not much of a poking-through-the-registry kind of guy but I did like having complete access to the file system, being able to move any file where I wanted it, and so on. But I guess this is just the way this world goes. IN the meantime, I am sticking with android for now. It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
^ I can agree to that. Not the swype part though, its fast as hell.
If i had to choose between windows mobile 6 or wp7, i have already made my decision
I will surely choose wp7, not because wm 6 is bad, but because wp7 works fluid. And I need my daily amount of eyecandy
tudork said:
It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
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Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
addicus said:
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
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I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Grassy
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean a court yard. One which you can freely enter or freely leave. Seriously if the first thing that pops into your head when thing of walled gardens are prisons...I'd talk to someone about that...
I think most people complaining now are not thinking long term.
Yes the OS is simpler and 'less' business and PPC focused. But. Think of it like this.
Start with simple yet powerful OS with enough feature to hook some power-users and easy enough for the average consumer to pick it up.
Now this is where the strategy plays out over the years to come. You train you base customer with update that over time make the OS more powerful and more feature rich much like PPC that they don't even know they're using a smartphone because you have "trained" them.
Sound familiar. It was the iPhone tactic from when it was released. Everyone knows the feature the iPhone4 has now could have existed years ago but they are "training" their user base.
Analogy time: If someone handed you an Indie car (PPC) and said race it you would be so confused by all the buttons and controls and not know how to handle it effectively.
But.
If they handed you a Suzuki Swift (WP7 (No idea why I thought of this car: P)) and said they will teach you to drive you'll have no worries buying from them again and buying a slightly (updates) more powerful car next time.
chaoscentral said:
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
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Click to collapse
I am a writer/musician so I copy and paste words a lot. I also copy/paste links, etc... when I am sending them out to people on twitter/facebook.
I don't think I am a fan of Android. I admit, I was enthused, at first, but after spending a few days playing around with XDAndroid on my Tilt 2, I'm convinced that I'm in no hurry to upgrade my phone. I've been a WinMo user since 2003, so I'm pretty familiar with its strengths and weaknesses and how to overcome most of them. Droid does some things well (reflowing web pages when zooming is one), but it seems more like a Mac to me in the way that a lot of the OS is inaccessible to the user unlike WinMo. As a tinkerer/modder, I feel like WinMo lets me get under the hood easier and better and in more ways. I'm sure my short exposure to Android is probably not unbiased, but I just couldn't find the customizability level that WinMo has built-in to it. It looks good, it worked OK (a bit sluggish, horrendous battery usage and no BT didn't let me really enjoy it), but it just felt too rigid compared to the flexibility I'm used to with WinMo.
I do have to give props to the people behind porting this to work on my Tilt 2. I'm sure it wasn't easy. Thanks to all you developers who share your talents here and on PPCGeeks. Gonna play with it a little more, but I'm no longer feeling any Droid envy.
Well I guess it depends on how you look at it... there's no registry, but there's so many other ways to modify things within Android... After all, the source code is all available, and with a little bit of knowledge you can change anything.
Plus, don't chalk up poor performance and lack of BT to Android... our builds are NOT like native Android phones - don't expect it to be anytime soon either... Perhaps one day we'll get it close, but this phone has a tired old processor. Not many native Android phones have our slow processors & run Froyo
Heck, we'll probably run Gingerbread before 90% of the native Android devices officially get it!
Either way, this is just meant to be tested/had fun with. It's not supposed to replace WinMo
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a replacement. I'm sure if I invested the time (like I have with WinMo) I would find all kinds of ways to bend Android to my will. I guess I just like what I'm used to better. The Android interface is too iPhone like for my tastes. I like having program groups, not a page full of icons of unrelated programs that I have to scroll through. I like that I have different backgrounds on all my screens and that I can access System items by category instead of scrolling through menu after menu. I did spend some time looking through the Android Market and was impressed by the number of apps, especially free ones, but I've yet to not find an app available for WinMo for the way I use the phone, most of them free, as well. I'm not convinced that Windows Phone 7 is the answer and I will NEVER buy an iPhone, so I will probably end up on some Android phone in the future. At least, thanks to this little preview, I know I don't need to switch anytime soon and can keep using my Tilt 2 until it dies.
arrrghhh said:
Well I guess it depends on how you look at it... there's no registry, but there's so many other ways to modify things within Android... After all, the source code is all available, and with a little bit of knowledge you can change anything.
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Personally I consider the lack of a registry a -good- thing.
****ing confirmed yihaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
F22 said:
Personally I consider the lack of a registry a -good- thing.
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agreed... sometimes
Miami_Son said:
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a replacement. I'm sure if I invested the time (like I have with WinMo) I would find all kinds of ways to bend Android to my will. I guess I just like what I'm used to better. The Android interface is too iPhone like for my tastes. I like having program groups, not a page full of icons of unrelated programs that I have to scroll through. I like that I have different backgrounds on all my screens and that I can access System items by category instead of scrolling through menu after menu. I did spend some time looking through the Android Market and was impressed by the number of apps, especially free ones, but I've yet to not find an app available for WinMo for the way I use the phone, most of them free, as well. I'm not convinced that Windows Phone 7 is the answer and I will NEVER buy an iPhone, so I will probably end up on some Android phone in the future. At least, thanks to this little preview, I know I don't need to switch anytime soon and can keep using my Tilt 2 until it dies.
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Click to collapse
I'm with you 100% there! I still love playing with XDAndroid though... any time I start getting bored with WinMo I come play with it. One thing it did clarify for me is the difference between 'application' (WinMo) and 'app' (Android and IPhone) and I now understand why there are more 'apps' on the market... they're more single purpose where WinMo is more of a 'suite'.
This is not a flame as much as it is a testament to the great dev's here at XDA who work so hard at making these Android ports.
Having been forced to use WinMo due to "company policy" and using an Android device on the "sly", I would take Android over WinMo hands down. That is my personal opinion and choice.
And apparently the DEV's have done a great job at porting over XDAndroid to the TP2/Tilt2 as I noticed Miami_Son's signature now states Samsung Captivate (Android Device) as the primary phone and HTC Tilt 2 as "(going soon)."
I just found some humor in that.
Miami_Son said:
I don't think I am a fan of Android. I admit, I was enthused, at first, but after spending a few days playing around with XDAndroid on my Tilt 2, I'm convinced that I'm in no hurry to upgrade my phone. I've been a WinMo user since 2003, so I'm pretty familiar with its strengths and weaknesses and how to overcome most of them. Droid does some things well (reflowing web pages when zooming is one), but it seems more like a Mac to me in the way that a lot of the OS is inaccessible to the user unlike WinMo. As a tinkerer/modder, I feel like WinMo lets me get under the hood easier and better and in more ways. I'm sure my short exposure to Android is probably not unbiased, but I just couldn't find the customizability level that WinMo has built-in to it. It looks good, it worked OK (a bit sluggish, horrendous battery usage and no BT didn't let me really enjoy it), but it just felt too rigid compared to the flexibility I'm used to with WinMo.
I do have to give props to the people behind porting this to work on my Tilt 2. I'm sure it wasn't easy. Thanks to all you developers who share your talents here and on PPCGeeks. Gonna play with it a little more, but I'm no longer feeling any Droid envy.
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Click to collapse
That's what ive been saying... its a great gimmick, but im just a windows fan at heart. I mean, games are great on it. Its like, if im picking someone up and im waiting for them, just boot up droid. Its like a mini arcade. I like that about it. the fact i can switch over from business to play. But for everyday use, winmo is just soooo much better for me. great interface. sense is a hog, but whatever. I flash my phone daily so I dont notice anything. i get a fraction of the errors with winmo i do with android.
Dont get me wrong, these ports are BADD-EFFIN-ASS!!! I mean just look at them, you can see the amount of time and energy they put into them. And ill continue to use it as an arcade... but a daily driver??? nnaaahhh
winmo=way2go
I too was a long timer with Winmo (since 2003) before they were integrated with phones...blablabla cough cough old school.
I discovered Android through my touchPro2 and was quite impressed how close I could get to Winmo's capabilities. The early versions of the kernel definitely needed to mature for a few years but in my opinion is now up to scratch...
I acquired the desire HD and have just been blown away by the extent of its capabilities like I was with Winmo in the old days.
Integration of apps within the OS actually make it grow stronger rather than stalls it if you guys see where I'm coming from.
What killed Winmo for me was its lack of good memory and screen resolution management.
All I'm eager to see is a good Office suite replacement and maybe TomTom but doesn't mean I can't edit word docx and navigate...(not at the same time of course).
Lastly, let's be real, Microsoft has pulled the plug on Winmo and Devs have moved on... It's almost as if I was still trying to get divx running on my poor Amiga (which I loved so much but had to let go).
That was my humble opinion, hope it will be understood accordingly. (now where is that Amiga emulator, lol)
Dodsin.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App