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looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
A twitter client is already on board isn't it?
Probably they'll also add a fart app to the final retail version. so the only thing you could do is add customized fart sounds!
I really wish it was different but to be honest I don't see any potential for interesting apps on WP7.
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but firefox did take awhile to produce nothing on Wm6 with access to native code so maybe MS doesnt trust them with native code cuz those fennec browser cause the phone to crash sometimes..im holding out hope that they give opera permission
gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff. That's why they focus on .NET. They will eventually have quite a big app library by the end of the year, but most of it will be "fart apps".
Will there ever be an NDK? Who knows...
C:Sharp! said:
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL..I hate those fart apps...or fart jokes for that matter.
The latest IE that I have on the Prime-II ROM is very good at rendering and formatting the columns for readibility, esp when used in mobile mode. Panning large pages is also very smooth and does not show any blank/white "still loading" when moving rapidly left or right or top or down. I actually stopped using opera because it suck memory and still shows white spaces when panning pages.
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
C:Sharp! said:
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
See: PowerShell, which is unashamedly built directly on top of .NET, and yet is a viable replacement to the command prompt due to the fact it can do pretty much anything.
Spike15 said:
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
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Click to collapse
Yes, that's correct. You can do that via P/Invoke.
You could also do that on Windows Mobile.
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
C:Sharp! said:
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had guessed.
I was just pointing out that .NET on Windows Mobile and Windows is more powerful than it's going to be on Windows Phone.
C:Sharp! said:
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
make some musical ones, to live up to your name!
Hehe
But actually, the name is inspired by the programming language.
No more. Now you will be a music apps developer for WP7!
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
C:Sharp! said:
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
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Click to collapse
Nope. I did not know. Thanks for the info. Now I know just a bit more about the WP7 platform
havox22 said:
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure .net framework in wp7s can access all hardware,so why Mozilla need native api access? just performance issues...but Mozilla do a sucked Firefox on WM6.X
Finally, I think .net framework good enough to develop great browser and developer can get benefit by GUI Acceleration
Managed is slow? May be but not critical
http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/dotnet/man_unman.htm
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
vangrieg said:
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So,this is not .net or Wp7 problem
All about the money
Everything in business is about money, so what? Restricting development to Silverlight makes developing alternative browsers for WP7 impossible because of a huge investment barrier.
Let me give some background. I know the very basics of hacking. That's it, not much more. I know how to root Android phones, install homebrew on WebOS, and I have tweaked Blackberry software, installed new os', just basic stuff like that. I have never built an app but I want to learn how to develop applications for Windows Phone 7 as this will be my next phone. Any advice? I went to the site and they have the tools there, I was just looking for any pre-reading I should do, or any advice from those already doing it.
Thanks
Download the free developer tools and play. Expression Blend is pretty easy and made for more visually-oriented people vs. hardcore coders.
The catch is that you can't deploy your apps onto your phone without a developers account.
But fi you're a student you might be able to claim a Student account from Dreamspark.
Sir. Haxalot said:
The catch is that you can't deploy your apps onto your phone without a developers account.
But fi you're a student you might be able to claim a Student account from Dreamspark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just watch the Dreamspark method as you don't seem to be able to register a device until you have your identity verified which, for students, doesn't happen until you submit an application for certification. I am still waiting to hear back from MS on that and if there is a way round it. It means you cannot test your application on a real device until after you have submitted it for certification which seems rather odd.
The tools themselves are very good it is very easy to produce a good looking functional application. There is quite a bit on http://create.msdn.com/ to get you started.
Omega Point said:
Just watch the Dreamspark method as you don't seem to be able to register a device until you have your identity verified which, for students, doesn't happen until you submit an application for certification. I am still waiting to hear back from MS on that and if there is a way round it. It means you cannot test your application on a real device until after you have submitted it for certification which seems rather odd.
The tools themselves are very good it is very easy to produce a good looking functional application. There is quite a bit on http://create.msdn.com/ to get you started.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the Dreamspark tip! I just got verified and DLd the software.
Hopefully this developer account will come in handy.
Might want to check out this site too: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/dd435692.aspx It'll help you get through the basics of programming that you'll need to know
why not
i can give you i got an account
pm me if you need
Free WP7 eBook
If you have some time to read the excellent Charles Petzold 's ebook...
Programming Windows Phone 7 which comes with Sample Code.
I've gone to a couple WP7 training courses and whenever the developers ask about having access to parts of the OS and things of that nature, the microsoft rep mentions theres a OEM SDK. That SDK is unavailble to normal developers and only available to OEMs. If any very resourceful xda members got ahold of that SDK and leaked it, we would see some very interesting apps! It would be a great start to a jailbroken/rooted app store or something of that nature. Just offer all the great apps that wouldn't normally get approved by MSFT. ie wifi tethering, emulators....
Unless you can magically make sideloading happen, this will not work.
Skatingn330 said:
[...] It would be a great start to a jailbroken/rooted app store or something of that nature. Just offer all the great apps that wouldn't normally get approved by MSFT. ie wifi tethering, emulators....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the OP is counting on some kind of "jailbreak" will solve that problem
(and so am I)
Actually if you have your phone registered as a dev phone, you kind of have a jailbroken one. Because you have the freedom to put any xap on you want.
It's just going to be the standard WindowsCE dev environment, right? All the WinCE libraries are on the phone, anyway. If you have Visual Studio, I think you can download the WindowsCE version from Microsoft, at least the trial version. Look around, you'll find it.
There's still a limit on the number of apps you can load. I believe it's 10 apps.
Skatingn330 said:
Actually if you have your phone registered as a dev phone, you kind of have a jailbroken one. Because you have the freedom to put any xap on you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Iridox said:
Unless you can magically make sideloading happen, this will not work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, but it will still require you to stay in the silverlight/XNA jailbox, right?
According to WPcentral:
Sounds like an innocent blog that reviews apps right? Well the concerns from the Twitter posts is that not only does the site review apps but it also contains download links for the .xap file that is residing on Microsoft's servers.
Even if you download the .xap file, it's going to take some effort to get it installed to your Windows Phone 7.
You will need the developer tools and device that is unlocked for development. While the developer tools are free, you have to be a registered developer to get an unlocked device. You CAN however download the .xap and rename it as a .zip and look at the structure of the app, though we're 99% sure that the real "code" of the app is compiled/encoded/encrypted.
Not many will be able to do much with this downloadable file. That is unless you're a developer looking to download free apps from other developers. Still, one has to wonder why it's so easy for a third party site to provide download links to Marketplace apps.
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Click to collapse
They are talking about the website: http://winmobile7.apphab.com/
Kind of a strange site. They are offering free downloads of paid marketplace applications. Unless you are a developer, you can't do anything with it. But it's still strange...
This sounds like a good way to get in a lot of trouble. I would bet Microsoft can see what apps are installed when the phone checks for marketplace app updates even if you side load it as a developer.
And its still live and offering files to download. Shoddy MS security on display, extremely troubling for devs.
Hopefully Microsoft will look into that site and any similar sites.
We cant have developers loosing money because of these people.
I can't see where you download apps - if its real why not post a link on http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsphone7/threads ?
It says it's for free and trial versions. Isn't it pointless to provide download files anyway since you can only install apps via the Marketplace?
****, they have my app on there, not happy
my app does support trial, I'm not seeing anything about xap downloads, hopefully this means the breach has been fixed and not that I'm looking in the wrong place
I don't mind free publicity, but I put many hours into that and don't want it spread around in such a way (free, unauthorized downloads, raw code)
Definitely not cool for developers. One issue is that all the apps are silverlight and are only compiled to MSIL. Pop open the binaries with Reflector and you've basically got the source code. All devs should utilize Dotfuscator to at least help with this.
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_...-with-preemptive-solutions-for-analytics.aspx
ckacey said:
my app does support trial, I'm not seeing anything about xap downloads, hopefully this means the breach has been fixed and not that I'm looking in the wrong place
I don't mind free publicity, but I put many hours into that and don't want it spread around in such a way (free, unauthorized downloads, raw code)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It looks like the site that had the links (http://winmobile7.apphab.com) took down the link to the XAPs but I bet the issue is still there. It was a pretty simple URL to the Microsoft server. You just had to know the application's GUID and you could download the XAP.
I don't see how this makes them free... you can easily see you need a registered dev device, I doubt it makes the app "free" because there is a fee you must pay.
efjay said:
And its still live and offering files to download. Shoddy MS security on display, extremely troubling for devs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft can check your device and see if you have pirated software on it, just like they do for XBox live. They already have the infrastructure in place and if you pirate be prepared to have your phone banned from Marketplace, Zune, XBox Live, etc.
RustyGrom said:
Definitely not cool for developers. One issue is that all the apps are silverlight and are only compiled to MSIL. Pop open the binaries with Reflector and you've basically got the source code. All devs should utilize Dotfuscator to at least help with this.
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_...-with-preemptive-solutions-for-analytics.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any decent develper will Obfuscate the code. If they didn't, they were kind of asking for it since it's hot hard to intercept data being downloaded over WiFi, etc. The fact that it can only come from the market was never enough to stop people from getting their hands on the files downloaded from said market.
It's no different than any other platform that uses a VM architecture (Android, WP7, WM 6.x .NET CF, Java ME, etc.).
I found my own app there. I don't however see a download link?
--edit: Nvm, should've read the thread to its end.
What is the URL? To replace with GUID or XAP filename? Could always use archive.org.
i guys!i have a mega pack xap installers with games and apps.
i poste for everyone previous.
sorry bad english...
cmpts
is a method to decrypt files xap
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=34246750&postcount=3
I heard that Microsoft is currently sponsoring a contest for developers called the "Go Mango Apportunity Contest".
Every time you publish an app between now and December 31, 2011, you get an entry to win one of five Samsung slate tablet pcs. In addition, each time you publish 5 apps during this time period, you also get an entry to win free advertising for one app you made of your choice. The free advertising will run on the Windows Phone Application Network for about 60 days and include 25K impressions.
New developers to Windows Phone are especially welcome. If you're new to developing for Windows Phone or new to developing (programs for mobile operating systems) in general, I see this a great opportunity to get your program (idea) out there and get some recognition for it. If you've developed for Android or iOS, I found a "translation guide" that gives you the Windows Phone equivalent for the Android or iOS programming concept. The url for it is http://windowsphone.interoperabilitybridges.com/porting. If you don't have the new Mango SDK yet (or are working with an earlier version of the Windows Phone SDK, you can find it at http://bit.ly/GoMango.
More details and the code (and url) needed for entry (it's totally free to enter) can be be found at http://bit.ly/rEB5PY
Edit: If you can't get to the site, the code needed to enter is: E8YRA
Update (11-25-11): If you are using Azure in your Windows Phone app that you publish, not only do you get the 1 normal entry into the Apportunity contest, but you also get 1 extra entry as well just for using Azure in your Windows Program app.
Also, for students, for every 3 apps you publish into the contest, you can get a free phone running Windows Phone.
More details can be found here: http://bit.ly/uqdKLe