M$, don't be so prejudice please - Windows Phone 7 General

M$, don't be so prejudice please - Windows Phone 7 General

quote: "most of the users do not use the function"
most people is not disabled, so you can ignore the need of the disabled
most people is not very intelligent, so the world doesn't get progress
most people can live with Linux, so windows OS can throw away
most people only need general phone, so don't waste your time to develop phone 7
...

Related

Don't like where Windows Phone 7 Series is headed? Let's do something about it!

Please sign, thank you.
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/7seriesphoneboycott/
Petition Message:
I'll make this short and to the point.
Windows Mobile:
Function: Extremely capable OS
Form: Dense, outdated user interface.
Windows Phone 7 Series:
Function: OS crippled by a lack of basic features
Form: Intuitive, modern user interface.
Microsoft has selected form over functionality and that is a decision we can not and will not support with our own monetary funds. Microsoft, you're decision to neglect basic features such as...
- an open file system accessible to the user
- copy + paste
- true multitasking
- true customization
... has resulted in our collective decision to boycott all
future Windows Phones until the above issues are addressed.

signed
also, if you can add:
no DRM

Also, post your negative thoughts on your Twitter accounts with the #wp7s along with it. Windows' accounts (the developers, Windows Phone account, Windows account) has been making posts with #wp7s in them so that readers can search for all related posts. If they are mostly negative, the developers are bound to notice.

I sent a message to wmpoweruser.com to see if they can post a link on their main page. I hope they come through.

Just postimg so this doesn't get lost in the forum. Please sign the petition.
Dwight2001

Signed with the hopes Microsoft adds some of those features later. But I'll still purchase either way honestly.

Signed. Let's just hope they will start listening to us

Let's face it, corporations only listen to the money. There's the geek crowd, then there's the mainstream crowd. The fattest pockets win.

My idea of "doing something about it" involves changing platforms. Good luck though. I hear MS loves customer feedback. As nice as Win7 is (My name is fortunz, and Win7 was my idea -- 4 years ago), it's a tech generation later than it should have been.

you know those windows 7 commercials where the actors and actress explain some nifty features like the task bar and stuff, then at the end of the commercial they proudly say "windows 7 was my idea".
It really contradicts what they are doing with windows phone 7 series in which cases, none of what they are doing are what users would want from winmo phones

klasital said:
you know those windows 7 commercials where the actors and actress explain some nifty features like the task bar and stuff, then at the end of the commercial they proudly say "windows 7 was my idea".
It really contradicts what they are doing with windows phone 7 series in which cases, none of what they are doing are what users would want from winmo phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. Too many people saying MS is stupid for this don't have the ability to step outside of their own little box and view the situation as it actually is. too many people think because THEY feel a certian way, it's how the rest of the world feels too.
I agree with many users here. I hate what I know of WP7.. I probably wont buy it... I totally see android in my future.. BUT... here is a little perspective.
The Iphone JUST got copy and paste not too long ago. The Iphone does not have a file system browser. The Iphone cant multitask. hrm.. what else? Oh yeah the Iphone has MOST of the market-share.
See.. What you want, and What I want, is not what most people want.
Microsoft knows that WP7 is what the masses need. A device that's not difficult. A device that lets them surf the web, get text messages, listen to music, tweet, and update facebook. A device that "Just works" They dont want all kinds of customizable settings and stuff.. It's too complicated.. Frankly, the average human is an idiot.
A majority us who frequent these forums like to have settings and options and like to change and customize their phones. They like custom roms. They dont mind actually thinking a little and trying to figure out a problem. They dont care that they spend more time flashing and tweaking, and customizing than actually using the device...
But the rest of the world, the VAST majority, wants an Iphone... WP7 was THIER Idea.

x51 said:
The Iphone cant multitask. hrm.. what else? Oh yeah the Iphone has MOST of the market-share.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's 3rd behind RIM and Nokia, actually. I generally agree that MS can succeed with this, but I see rather the opposite of the point you make about xda's little discussion. I don't see nay-sayers demanding everyone hate it, I see defenders telling me I should like it.
To everyone who wants an iPhone, locked down, restricted controlled experience -- which is a considerable number of people -- enjoy. Just don't feel threatened by the fact that I want an actual smartphone, not a smarter than average feature phone.

x51 said:
Iphone has MOST of the market-share.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fortunz said:
It's 3rd behind RIM and Nokia, actually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I guess I was really thinking about WM vs Android, vs Iphone.
I had not considered Blackberry, and had no Idea Nokia was at the top.
Guess I need to look outside my own little box..
fortunz said:
but I see rather the opposite of the point you make about xda's little discussion. I don't see nay-sayers demanding everyone hate it, I see defenders telling me I should like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was't making a point about XDA attitudes as a whole.. But I see a lot of people complaining that "MS is making a bad decision", and that "they will fail with this", and "how could they remove a file system browser".. etc.
This very thread is a petition to attempt to make MS change their direction on WP7..
And while I wish MS would.. I was pointing out that MS is trying to tap the Apple success.. so they are building an Apple like product.. and even though they will probably lose me and others.. they will likely gain much much more than they lose. From a company standpoint.. It's probably a good decision.
I'm pretty sure MS wont miss me at all.
Then again, I may love it.. and I cant wait to actually play with a final live release. The talented devs here will probably crack it.. make custom roms.. port "light" versions to phones that are 6 years old... who knows.. only time will tell.

Signed.
But have to say, there is no doubt in my mind that there will be a Pro version will all the features that are missing.
Logicalstep

+1
I'm relaying your petition on french website "Planete HTC".

Add no Flash.
It really is looking like Jo Bob's phone. It has no place for IT/CompSci types like us who like to break it down and micromanage our phones...

...I still can't find any mention of them discontinuing 'Windows Mobile' completley on any sites...only about the 'Windows Phone' Release.
There used to be a big distinction between smartphone and PDA editions so maybe this is part of that 'smartphone' umbrella!? Could this possibly mean that they intent to follow 'Windows Phone 7' with 'Windows Mobile 7' ?
Lets hope so, WP7 has nothing of appeal for me (apart form the hardware specs it will bring)

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&gid=110857428927753
facebook thread to gain more awareness about it ^

the petition and this thread is useless. if you really want to hurt micro$oft then move to android or another platform.

smoother2010 said:
the petition and this thread is useless. if you really want to hurt micro$oft then move to android or another platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree.
Developing a phone OS is a monumental effort. Once the foundation is laid, it is not easy to dismantle and redo. I don't think it was an easy decision for MS to finally implicitly admit that Apple's ways were the better ways and to copy the concepts such as having physical stores, a single application store, locked down OS to protect the developers/book sellers/music artists, drastic reduction in hardware variation, etc etc. If they're smart, they will also secretly have a team of people to jailbreak their own OS in order to also satisfy the more geeky users but also pretent to fight these jailbreak community. In that way, they satisfy the software developers/music artist hence gain support for the growth and success of the online application store, at the same time, meet the requirements of the more geeky users like ourselves.

[APP] Windows Phone Device Center!? It's real

http://www.touchxperience.com/
I think everyone should read, but if you're too lazy
Windows Phone Device Manager allows you to manage your Windows Phone 7 device from your PC, you can simply view, install and uninstall "sideloaded" applications, explore device, transfer and sync files,... It is compatible with all Windows Phone 7 devices.
Windows Phone Device Manager detects when the phone is connected or disconnected, if you don't have a registered developer device it can automatically unlock your phone, so you don't need ChevronWP7 anymore.
You can also connect to your phone via Wi-Fi, for example to transfer files from/to your phone using Windows Phone Device Manager or the provided Windows Phone application.
If Windows Phone Device Manager becomes popular I think about creating an open marketplace for non-commercial applications. Developers are welcome to join the project!
A first version will be released in the next few days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS IS AMAZING. Discuss

want want want
This would be perfect!!
because im to lazy to use chevronwp7 every time i sync, i know about going to airport mode, but thats just more work than using the chevronwp7 unlock.
want want want maybe need!
+1

i'm glad i held out purchasing my phone just so i won't spend the first few months tearing my hair out trying to do what this program can do now

Good way to enable easy loading of pirated applications.

Hold up... is this the new version of WMDC we all used for WinMo 6.x devices or some 3rd party thing?

efjay said:
Good way to enable easy loading of pirated applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which pirated apps ? have you ever seen any ?

efjay said:
Good way to enable easy loading of pirated applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am tired of people saying stuff like this. If you're against continuing development of the platform, then why are you here?
Would the USB File Transfer still require Zune on the PC?

cutegigi said:
which pirated apps ? have you ever seen any ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes but im not saying, just thats its already happend.
for other people who complain. there will always be someone doing that. so get over it. unless u have a way to stop it. dont complain, it doesnt help much.
id much rather be able to have some fun with my phone via home-brew that never be able to just because of some people who feel the need to lock it down completely. its gonnnnnnna happen. so embrace home-brew or get off xda

You guys really need to relax when telling people to get off a site because they don't agree with you... Have you thought that maybe this might be a BAD thing for the platform? A way to hinder the growth of the actual marketplace? A way to open up negative avenues of distribution for the platform? XDA is a forum of discussion. At no point did he say he wants to stifle the growth of the platform, he simply stated the obvious. And yes, I also agree that this will lead to pirated apps, less apps in the marketplace due to an 'easier' avenue of distribution. Either way, I for one won't be using anything like this as I want to commercially support this OS.
I really don't see the need to create a separation between the userbase by making comments as those though. Input is always a good thing, it creates for a more balanced environment. Unfortunately, as great as something like this theoretically sounds, I see it having negative impact, and also creating more confusion for new users as well. For documents, I'm going to continue utilizing the 'cloud' even with it's unfinished functionality... And for apps... if it isn't in the marketplace, or can't get there, I really don't see a need for it.

FiyaFleye said:
At no point did he say he wants to stifle the growth of the platform, he simply stated the obvious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good point.
still, out of all phones i have ever used. people have been alot harder on wp7 and piracy. I understand that its because Microsoft needs better security for the apps on its marketplace, but its no reason to completely ban everything, microsoft will fix the security (or maybe not, there was practacly none on wm, this is still an improvement)
xaps need to get on the phone, people are always going to pirate, and people are always going to buy. but simply because a developer is making it easier for non developers to have a little fun with there phones. I would never pay the 99 annual fee to Microsoft because i don't actually want to distribute any apps. this does not automatically mean that im going to be using pirated apps, part of being an early adopter i want the phone to grow and developers on the market to make great apps, and ill support them, im literally obsessed with playing with my phone.but poor Microsoft, they already made there sale when i bought my phone. i own it, they do not, so i will do whatever i want with it unlocked, and being a non coder or hacker, i depend on the developers that release these tools. so saying its going to help piracy is ridiculous and mildly offensive to me (I said mildly, ill turn off my computer and not think about it again most likely). its like saying "Kitchen knifes are going to make it easier to kill people". while yes, its very true and it happens, people casually killing people with kitchen knives have deeper issues than simply picking it up and doing something wrong with it.
so my point is its like that with EVERY digital medium. there is no real way to stop piracy with only complaining or pointing out the obvious. im not asking people to be ignorant about piracy, im asking people to be more considerate of the people who use these tools for less illegal activity's with the property the rightfully own

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What you need to remember is that you're one user in millions...
Now, my biggest issue with this is that in order for this platform to succeed, the marketplace needs to succeed, greatly. Allowing developers to sidestep the real marketplace to utilize a 'sideload' one is going to hinder the platform. The average user doesn't give a crap about most of the stuff we talk about, but they're going to miss out on the apps they wouldn't have otherwise. We need everything released on this platform to go through the marketplace to reach the real users of this OS, which obviously isn't targeted at the .004% on XDA... Sorry, but that's a reality. XDA is filled some of the most selfish people on the planet, really, and you'll see it if you go through most of the topics. It's always about what that one user wants, never what's best for the situation as a whole, whether it be a custom ROM, an android launcher, or an OS.
Sorry, but this isn't the iPhone, and I can't see WinPhone doing nearly as well competing with a second, underground market. And that's what most of you don't understand. Sure, this is going to give the OS another couple thousand sales from the users on this forum, but it might cost them millions in the real world... But you thousand users, with all your brilliant minds, need to develop for the platform as it is, instead of trying to compete with it...

The average user doesn't give a crap about most of the stuff we talk about, is true, they also wont bother with the sideloaded stuff probably. but they might, honestly. being able to do things you cant do on the marketplace is not going to hinder, and honestly. most people dont pirate apps, some do yes.
anyways. the only way is to wait and see what happens. we both have strong opposed ideas on whats constructive-destructive.
you can only hope your wrong, because its going to happen regardless, that you cant argue. I just choose to feel more optimistic about it cuz i dont want to buy another new phone if wp7 turns into a blackberry/palm/nokia

Does anyone know if this Device Manager will allow loading up custom ring- and message-tones onto your device? (without using a homebrew app or that?).
In other words; does it grant acces to the respective directories on the phone to put some files in there?

I've said it before on this forum and I dont want to sound like a broken record, but the iPhone jailbreaking system would work great on WP7.
Cydia - the iPhone homebrew marketplace - is a truly fantastic repository of apps, code, tweaks and fixes that would never be officially supported by Apple or allowed in the App Store. It also doesn't host or encouraged cracked apps, and as far as I know it's not a major problem on that platform.
I think it's possible to want healthy developer revenues and strict guidelines from the marketplace and at the same time a large homebrew community. Best of both worlds - Microsoft gets to keep standards high and people get to go as deep as they want with the unofficial stuff.
It'll take time, though. And I don't really think it matters if MS supports it - Apple is vehemently against jailbreaking and it's still going strong.

zukа said:
I've said it before on this forum and I dont want to sound like a broken record, but the iPhone jailbreaking system would work great on WP7.
Cydia - the iPhone homebrew marketplace - is a truly fantastic repository of apps, code, tweaks and fixes that would never be officially supported by Apple or allowed in the App Store. It also doesn't host or encouraged cracked apps, and as far as I know it's not a major problem on that platform.
I think it's possible to want healthy developer revenues and strict guidelines from the marketplace and at the same time a large homebrew community. Best of both worlds - Microsoft gets to keep standards high and people get to go as deep as they want with the unofficial stuff.
It'll take time, though. And I don't really think it matters if MS supports it - Apple is vehemently against jailbreaking and it's still going strong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the only thing we need to figure out is app deploying on mobile phone minus a computer and I think a homebrew store would be good
but then what to name it hactivate? nah
munder? (nah) meh well I wish I could do it actually - make the homebrew app store

domineus said:
actually I want a homebrew marketplace because microsoft policy. Let's be realistic most app platforms have it and for good reason. The hacks we do are illegal and won't be accepted by any healthy app marketplace. So why go through the crap with microsoft?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, you're speaking as a member of this community. 95% of the users out there don't even know this community exists. If apps make it to the 'homebrew marketplace' they most likely won't make it to the real marketplace. I'm sure it'll much easier to launch a free app on a homebrew market than going through the submission process at Microsoft. This is going to damage the phone's marketplace and hurt this phone.
zukа said:
I've said it before on this forum and I dont want to sound like a broken record, but the iPhone jailbreaking system would work great on WP7.
Cydia - the iPhone homebrew marketplace - is a truly fantastic repository of apps, code, tweaks and fixes that would never be officially supported by Apple or allowed in the App Store. It also doesn't host or encouraged cracked apps, and as far as I know it's not a major problem on that platform.
I think it's possible to want healthy developer revenues and strict guidelines from the marketplace and at the same time a large homebrew community. Best of both worlds - Microsoft gets to keep standards high and people get to go as deep as they want with the unofficial stuff.
It'll take time, though. And I don't really think it matters if MS supports it - Apple is vehemently against jailbreaking and it's still going strong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 isn't the iPhone. Cydia is successful because Apple, not just the iPhone, has a much stronger, loyal user base. The iPhone could get one app a month and still be considered the greatest thing on the planet. Unfortunately, however much better it is, WP7 isn't to that level, and iPhone has been there since launch.

FiyaFleye said:
What you need to remember is that you're one user in millions...
Now, my biggest issue with this is that in order for this platform to succeed, the marketplace needs to succeed, greatly. Allowing developers to sidestep the real marketplace to utilize a 'sideload' one is going to hinder the platform. The average user doesn't give a crap about most of the stuff we talk about, but they're going to miss out on the apps they wouldn't have otherwise. We need everything released on this platform to go through the marketplace to reach the real users of this OS, which obviously isn't targeted at the .004% on XDA... Sorry, but that's a reality. XDA is filled some of the most selfish people on the planet, really, and you'll see it if you go through most of the topics. It's always about what that one user wants, never what's best for the situation as a whole, whether it be a custom ROM, an android launcher, or an OS.
Sorry, but this isn't the iPhone, and I can't see WinPhone doing nearly as well competing with a second, underground market. And that's what most of you don't understand. Sure, this is going to give the OS another couple thousand sales from the users on this forum, but it might cost them millions in the real world... But you thousand users, with all your brilliant minds, need to develop for the platform as it is, instead of trying to compete with it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You contradict yourself in a major way in this mini editorial. On one hand, you say XDA users are selfish and the general public doesn't need/want what we want but on the other hand, you're saying devs won't go through the MK because of us.
You're really not using your common sense if you think for one second that because a group users from ONE site sideloads (and not a large group at that), devs will not put their software in the Marketplace. The scenario cannot be both ways and it's borderline idiotic to think so.
Btw, you're really showing you're not too knowledgeable about the iPhone pirate scene. There is a HUGE underground market for iOS apps but yet, a lot of people don't even "jailbreak" their devices in the first place. It has not hurt or even dented their App Store. Why would you think WP7 would be any different?
Lastly, these brilliant minds aren't competing, they're improving. I guarantee the killer app that you will want will come from here and WON'T be allowed in the Marketplace, much like multitasking was allowed in Cydia WAY before iOS made it official.
It's people like you who are the problem, trying to stifle the innovation of devs on this site because you're worried about a company succeeding that you won't see a dime of money from.
BTW, WinMo 6.5 is still alive, thanks to XDA.

fb401 said:
You contradict yourself in a major way in this mini editorial. On one hand, you say XDA users are selfish and the general public doesn't need/want what we want but on the other hand, you're saying devs won't go through the MK because of us.
You're really not using your common sense if you think for one second that because a group users from ONE site sideloads (and not a large group at that), devs will not put their software in the Marketplace. The scenario cannot be both ways and it's borderline idiotic to think so.
Btw, you're really showing you're not too knowledgeable about the iPhone pirate scene. There is a HUGE underground market for iOS apps but yet, a lot of people don't even "jailbreak" their devices in the first place. It has not hurt or even dented their App Store. Why would you think WP7 would be any different?
Lastly, these brilliant minds aren't competing, they're improving. I guarantee the killer app that you will want will come from here and WON'T be allowed in the Marketplace, much like multitasking was allowed in Cydia WAY before iOS made it official.
It's people like you who are the problem, trying to stifle the innovation of devs on this site because you're worried about a company succeeding that you won't see a dime of money from.
BTW, WinMo 6.5 is still alive, thanks to XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
summed up my thoughts perfectly.

[Q] NoDo and the Next 'Chevron'

So now that the HTC Arrive has come out (with NoDo installed on it), how long till someone gets one an takes a crack at 'jailbreaking' it like ChevronWP7 did before?
My apologies to ~~Tito~~ for misplacing my thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12252216#post12252216).
Will be more careful in the future.

you do realize that the release isn't even a week old right? matter of fact make that 3-days. On top of that, the official release for NoDo hasn't even been release.

An old article but I thought it was relivant.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/new-windows-phone-7-jailbreak-in-the-pipeline/11047
Soon we will have another tool to jailbreak our WP7s.. This is suppose to be much more reliable becasue it does not allow Microsoft to re lock the device.
"The tool also allows users to manage their applications, explore devices, create device backups, add ring-tones and sync favorites."
I cant wait to download!!!!

Schaps told us on his page that he will NOT include his jailbreak tool...
Because I was bored getting hundreds of emails from people asking me to send them WP Device Manager so they can continue to use pirated applications, and because there will be a short term solution for homebrews, I decided not to include my jailbreak tool. I respect other developers and I don’t want to be responsible for piracy, I’ve been contacted by Brandon Watson from Microsoft and I wish to be involved in the official homebrew support on Windows Phone.
found on touchxperience.com

Well, the less piracy a OS has the more developers will be inclined to develop for it. If you were going to sell your software and new that on one platform it was very difficult to pirate your software, you would be more inclined to support that platform.

that's not necessarily true, there are other factors beside piracy that a developer considers such as # of users, incentive, etc, in fact i have never heard a dev quote piracy as a concern
but anyway, unlock does not have to mean piracy, it's just business and a way of overprotection to keep the os tight and closed - in fact with chevron we've seen more innovations from our own community than from microsoft, one of the biggest being the instant multitasking

cyclical said:
Well, the less piracy a OS has the more developers will be inclined to develop for it. If you were going to sell your software and new that on one platform it was very difficult to pirate your software, you would be more inclined to support that platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is just wrong windows as an OS has got to have more software combined then Linux and Apple, also I havent even taken into account the fact that the IPHONE is basically a pirating device, the term "jail break" originally comes from the iphone so I dont know what you are smoking when you say piracy would reduce the amount of developers on a platform.
you need to stop drinking that developer kool-aid my friend

Julien's tool has web server code in it, so it's reasonable to assume he was going to attempt a similar trick that we employed in Chevron. (i.e. No, he likely doesn't have anything that will work either.)

[Q] Windows 8 forum should be divided into x86/64 and RT for ARM

Otherwise we will get big mess here in few months.
Since problems and solution will be different for both systems it will be hard to find correct information.
What do you think?

galtom said:
Otherwise we will get big mess here in few months.
Since problems and solution will be different for both systems it will be hard to find correct information.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. At the moment I have to comb through the comments to find which o/s they relate to.

The Windows (Win8 + RT) forums don't have much traffic. Splitting into smaller forums will make it worse, as traffic will be further chopped up, and forums need a certain traffic volume to be self-sustainable. People are more likely to participate--as I'm responding to you right now--when there are postings to reply to, even if it isn't wholly on-topic.
On/off-topic is a means to an end, the end being to allow users to easily find the info they're looking for. That doesn't happen if there's no info (no traffic) to speak of. If traffic were high, then segregration is desirable. If it's a ghost town, then consolidation is better, just to get more people talking and participating.
Anyway, it's a bit of a moot point, because even outside of here, there's not much happening for Metro.
Aside: I applaud what netham45 and GoodDayToDie are doing on the RT dev front. It's what XDA is about. But from the larger view, I don't see any momentum for Metro. As it is now, it's not suitable to host desktop-type software (read: rich productivity applications), and MS in all its wisdom has locked down the platform ala Apple, driving away garage devs when it needs them the most. Why would devs bother, when Win8/RT devices are expensive, the platform is locked down, and there's no market demand?
So, I wonder when you mention "in a few months." Hardware availability will get better, and prices will (slowly) drop, but I don't see a large surge to adopt Win8 or RT--especially RT. It'll still be a slow slog, like what we've seen over the holidays.
I'm watching Surface Pro with interest. It's basically the flagship for the whole Win8 effort. A lot of hype and hope are bestowed upon it. I'm not optimistic that people will shell out $1K for it, when ultrabooks as a category has largely failed at the same price point for the last two years. Let's see how it fares.

Temporary Fix
For now wouldn't it be sufficient to prefix posts with either "X86" or "RT" - then it might be easier to find those of interest to the person searching for info - also easier to search. This was done in many of the Android dev forums that I participate in and it helped a lot.
Just my humble thought

I wouldn't mind if there was just one more forum added for Windows RT development.
The 'Surface RT' subforum should be renamed to 'Windows RT Devices', too.

docfreed said:
For now wouldn't it be sufficient to prefix posts with either "X86" or "RT" - then it might be easier to find those of interest to the person searching for info - also easier to search. This was done in many of the Android dev forums that I participate in and it helped a lot.
Just my humble thought
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would definitely help

the problem with those headers is that people don't use them or forget what they are supposed to use or just make up new ones which confuses the hell out of everyone
a much better idea is to tag your threads with key words that are relevant
ill start adding tags to popular existing threads if it helps but we should all get in to the habit of doing it to start with
with x64 just an extension of x86 id propose a simple x86 or ARM tag to id posts, like ive done to this one

Anyone tried j2objc yet?

Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?

lapucele said:
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.

lapucele said:
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just thought I'd mention as I only heard yesterday, but the newest edition of the app store for Apple is called AppCake for Apple. Apparently Apple is now going about systematically shutting down every 3rd party non-apple owned store including the non so legitimate suppliers of of Apple after market hardware products. That means everyone with anything that connects to an apple product that isn't apple or made by apple is a target. Geeese they don't let up do they? Developers mention that Apple will never be able to shut them down :silly: that they can and will do what they like with their iDevices cause they own them.
Oh and other thing to look out for if you go to Apple/iTunes, is this company Lodsys who are world renowned for being patent trolls who are systematically targeting individual developers for breaches in copy right for, get this......'in app purchasing' they claim that they invented it and are now suing several developers from iTunes (them personally) for using the iTunes supplied SDK for in app purchasing. Apple is doing the right thing and trying to defend these developers but the World IP org and US patents office can't do a god damned thing about it until things hurry up and get pushed through a ballot of senators to have groups like them shut down. Until then they are working their best and fastest with trying to sue as many people as they can! Unfortunately for most its a loosing battle as they don't have the money or resources to fight these bastards so they end up paying up. In an new interview I heard one company claimed it was cheeper to settle for 100K out of court than what it was to commit to defending them selves even though this group targeting them was 100% wrong.
But not meaning to scare you...or anything just keeping you filled in. Me personally I would write them a letter saying 4 words on one line followed by 4 words on a second line "Go f*%# your self" "See you in court" and go seek one of my dad's barrister friends to do it no win no fee. Screw that. I would be flaunting that I have in app purchasing sayin come at me bro
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/app-developers-lodsys-back
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/hey-patent-trolls-pick-someone-your-own-size
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...t-patent-trolls-and-not-going-take-it-anymore

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.

out of ideas said:
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Research and Understanding
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. To run Apple in a VM is in breach of their TOS and Usage policy. It also entitles them to seek prosecution also; so not just a ban from iTunes. Going by Apples past history I wouldn't put it past them? Although now with Tim Cook in charge of things I think Apple is going about things a bit more differently now? For better or worse (people had their opinions of Steve Jobs - personally I disliked him but did appreciate his success and achievements for what they stacked up to be, personal opinions aside it takes a great person to do such) Apple is starting to become a bit more valued in collaborations as this is what Tim Cook always wanted working for Apple that he was never able to have whilst Steve was the master of the helm. Tim Cook was more about getting the job done and sharing. Steve's ongoing vendetta litigations were not Tim Cooks choice and/or advice. He didn't want such things from what I have read? More recently his involvement in legal matters has been observed as retracted and no confronting; he has proceeded to do these actions as part of Steve Jobs dying wishes and nothing more.
As far as I can tell he wants to nothing more than to get things out of the way and over and done with so that he and his company can move on.
My thoughts on this as an observer in the mobile tech industry is that I think Apple has dropped the ball a bit, and it is probably far too little far too late. However with a company with that much money behind it? There's only speculations about what holds in the future of Apple? They are certainly not going away or going to fall in to ruins that's for certain.
What I mean is that, yes there has been a heap of legal stuff seen by Apple and most of it very negative, but my feeling is that this won't be the case here on into the future, so the likelihood of facing a court for breach of Terms of Use are likely to be very small. I am sure that editing a build.prop is considered a breach of Google's TOS for use of a device in their Playstore?
Suggestions
My suggestion is to give it a try I have had some issues setting up my VM but have got all the necessary resources including all the software. I have just become too busy and it is not high on the priority list at the moment. I wanted to try gain an understanding of how Apple detects it's visitors. I mean iTunes is cross platform Windows and Mac (There is no release for Ubuntu or Linux AFAIK? only Wine type hacks) I know when I visit the iTunes webpage I am automatically prompted to download a Windows installer package. So they must have some form of automatic detection? Being that the likes of Virtualbox uses a shared internet connection I would speculate that you would need to choose the correct adapter settings so that your VM is seen to be a running physical machine and not a able to be identified as a shared connection or virtualised connection?
I didn't get this far as my installation has many issues. I still have the VM though for future interest. Feel free to PM me if you give it a try and don't succeed and I am happy to share what things I discovered in my problem solving.
Understanding Limitations for Cross Platform Mobile Development
As for the porting to OS's I believe there are many offerings around now that provide developers with a cross platform arrangement. Essentially only the UI resources need to change and then that plugs into a framework structure for your application to run in. You compile the code individual applications that are specific to the platform but you ARE able to develop your main code independent of the platforms. Languages such as Flex or Rubi on rails are going to be your best bet from my research?
Things You Should Consider
1. Single code repository
2. Individual application frameworks - compilation of application runtime for independent OS type
3. Limitations are stipulated and governed by what is allow at the lowest possible denominator. i.e. You can only build code into your single code repository that can accessed by the functionality of both(or all) platforms. What I mean is that there is no use building a single code repository that uses a function that is limited on one platform and not the other, another example is restrictions dictated to you by the likes of such companies like Apple. They have a strict guidelines and what is potentially available to you may not be in its context. Just because certain functionality is available to you in the Apple platform and you have even seen it in use on Apple devices does not necessarily mean that you can build and release it. In it's context Apple may not like what you are doing with your app and not approve it.
Your single point of code and it entirety has just shrunk in functionality to both devices now. So be careful and Anticipate what you might think the outcome is for your Application facing such scrutinisation and what it could possibly mean for your project as a whole?
On this note I have heard of developers making scripts and add-ons for their said central repository that allows them to restrict things ats compile time. For instance having greyed out selections in menus and a toast like notification to users like "Sorry this functionality is only available to Android users" and things like that.
Hope this helps contribute towards people considering on such ventures. Do your research. Find out what types of apps have been rejected from being published and find the reasons for why?

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will check it in next week

Develop Bugs

welcome