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I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
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You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
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Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states
I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!
awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
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Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
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It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out
That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.
Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.
Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!
Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune
francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
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Click to collapse
If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]
So yea I have been a long time Android user and I have had no interest in WP7 after using WM6-6.5, not an iphone guy either, Android just feels right at home for me, so anyway a couple weeks ago my Captivate fell and broke, now I need a new phone, Naturally Android was my first choice and I decided that I was gonna wait for the Olympus that is heavily rumored for ATT in Jan, So all is well....until I see a WP7 commercial and it hits me! "You know what! Lemme check this out, lets see if this is even gonna last against Android and iOS" I tell myself, so I hope on my laptop and start checking out the phones and looking at UI breakthroughs/reviews. At first I thought the UI was a little weird but as the review went on I started liking more and more! Now I think hands down its the best looking OS on a mobile (I used to give that to WebOS), so with the combination of the great looking and fast UI, Single OS and updates across all phones which is important to me because as a heavy android user that has had many Android phones, I can tell you a lot of Custom UIs just SUCK, and most of these phones arent future proof as without rooting you will never get an update.
Im really interested but there are some things that do worry me, first of all I still love android and Im still trying to choose which one.
At first I was really annoyed that you have to use the Zune software to add music, Vids, Pics etc, but I guess its not as bad as that crap they call iTunes.
Wtf is up with all this MicroSD card talk? This is something that is very important to me as I listen to a LOT of music and need that extra memory, If I get WP7, The Focus is the phone I will get, but I need to know my MicroSD will work.
How about the Apps, I have yet to check out the Apps on the Zune Software but how fast do you think MS will catchup? I mean WP7 at 1000, Android at 100,000, and iOs at 300,000, quite a big gap.
Updates are very important to me, I hate to feel like I have an outdated phone, will MS send out the updates or do we have to wait for the Carriers?
And finally the biggest and most important question of all, will WP7 succeed, at this point it looks like WP7 is already at a high level in terms of UI and everything in its infancy stages, but is that enough? Will it ever catch up to Android and more importantly iOS? Will it catch on with the people? This wont be another Kin right? lol
Overall Im VERY interested and seriously considering the jump, there are some minor things that I wanna see fixed and there are some things holding me back such as the MicroSD issue (very important to me as 8gb is not enough for me), and the Olympus (waiting to see how it is).
I guess it's safe to say that WP7 won't be a next Kin simply because of a much higher level of commitment, resources and funds from Microsoft. Whether it will catch up with Android in terms of overall market share - who knows.
Re apps, there are ways to check out whether the platform has the specific apps you need. You can use Bing visual search to browse through the Marketplace, install Zune software on your PC, and there's also some third party site that allows you to browse apps (wp7appslist.com or something like that). It doesn't really matter whether they have a billion apps or 15, they need to have the ones you need, I think.
The whole SD card thing is a real mess indeed. Samsung Focus seems to be the only phone where you can realistically replace the card, but there's a list of cards that work and a list of cards that don't here on xda, check it. I personally would prefer built-in flash as it's noticeably faster, but obviously 8GB is just ridiculous. There are some phones that are announced to have 16GB, don't know whether they are available for you.
Zune: I like Zune WiFi sync.
MicroSD: If you must have removable SD, don't buy WP7. Even the ones for which you can/might be able to put in your own microSD, the card is locked to the phone and you can't swap out the card without reinitializing the phone.
Apps: WP7 is at 3,000 or something like that now. WP7 has many of the big title games that are on iOS that are NOT on Android; WP7 is insanely easy to program little apps for, and uses XNA for professional game development (same platform as Xbox). So, I think you'll see lots of high quality apps. iOS may have 300k apps, but TONS of the apps are useless garbage.
Who knows to what degree WP7 will succeed or fail? I am certain MS is committed to the platform. On the subject in general though, look how RIM and Symbian were king of the hill and how quickly have lost market share -- the same can happen to Android and iOS. People are not committed to their mobile OS in the same way they are on their computers.
Yea I agree that we dont need a million apps, just the ones we need, Its funny because on my Captivate I only used about 15 apps of the 50 I had anyway, as for the SD Card issue, I dont mind that you cant take it out without resetting I just want to have at least 20gb's not a measly 8gb.
Over in the HD7 forum many people have replaced the 16gb MicroSD card with a 32gb MicroSD Card successfully (using the hidden micro SD Card slot, being careful not to void warranty) , as far as I know only Sandisk cards work though.
Also, you can use SDCards after they've been in a WP7 but you need to stick it in a Symbian Running Nokia to reformat it first. I would imagine after the next update Microsoft will come out with some sort of app for this.
My sandisk class 4 16GB card is working very well in my Focus.. no complaints so far.
As for your other questions..
The Zune software is very nice.. and wireless syncing is an option for music, photos, etc.
They are up to around 3,000 apps..
As for updates, the first big one is planned for January.. the carriers do have the final say on an update being released, but the delays (if they happen) should be nothing like android.. because OEM and carrier customizations to the OS have been limited to applications that can be uninstalled and special sections in the marketplace. Microsoft has supposedly set up duplicates of the carrier tests in their own test labs so they can preemptively test updates and know if an update is going to pass the carrier test or not.. and provide the results to the carrier.
Microsoft is delivering the updates either OTA or via the Zune software.. but the carriers still have the final say.
I don't anticipate any delays, though.. unless there are problems with the update. As the owner of a Samsung Vibrant.. I can safely say that I will not miss that aspect of Android one bit..
Thanks for all the replys guys! The more I think about it, the more I want to get the Focus. I will admit, Ive been used to Android for a while now but it shouldnt be so bad, seeing as I have been using my bros spare 3GS, it does what I need it to do....but still just not a fan of how iphone is set up, and the syncing process is just....ugh....I just hope Zune isnt like itunes...
i was also in your boat last week. I was an avid android user and recomended it to all my friends. i had the hd2 with 6.5 and it was meh to say the least, but my new HD7 is amazing and i now tell those friends to get WP7 phones.
the UI is great and intuitive, and for being the first version of WP7... it rocks!
The market is still beta, but give it time and im sure it will florish. Like Talys said, apps are super easy to make so its only a matter of time.
i also love zune. first time using it when i got the HD7. Wireles syncing is so convienient! keeps all my music fresh and different everytime i charge my phone.
I jumped ship and not looking back. WP7 is amazing!
What about Playing Divx files? Possible?
solidkevin said:
What about Playing Divx files? Possible?
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Zune takes care of most of the common video files and converts them for you.
I'll clarify a few things for you from the posts above and focus it on your original post.
Zune itself is a little different to get use to compared to other media players, but it's quite lite in running, and grows on you over time. it's very well presented and works far better than iTunes that's for sure. It actually closes properly with huge libraries (try it on iTunes and watch the processes on your PC, see how long iTunes takes to close...).
MicroSD... it is definitely confusing, but from all the chatter, if you're after space, buy the Focus, use a Sandisk/Kingston class 4 32GB card, and you'll have a total of 40GB (8gb onboard). This trumpts the iPhone 4's 32GB offering. Which takes care of your space issues. And given you're in the US, get a Zune Pass and you get unlimited streaming of music (only limited to your carrier, don't want to blow your phone bill), and you get to keep 10 songs a month which is within the Zune Pass subscription.
Apps are growing, they're just about to pass 3,000. As a developer, i'm starting to get my head around windows phone. if you want to develop, it's far easier for windows phone than any other platform, and there is a lot of support online from MS and the community in terms of C# and silverlight (which is where you'll start). If you're not a dev, there are a lot of well known apps already available, and more coming by the day (e.g. wordpress is rumoured to be working on a wp7 app, which should be great for those who are constant bloggers).
Updates, yes carriers can block them, but only 1 round. Let me give you an example, say MS says that we have an update coming Jan, but at&t haven't finished testing with this update, they can ask MS to not deploy to their phones, and MS will not. Then MS comes along (let's say in may [made up]) and says, we have another update. the update that at&t asked not to deploy will be included with this, and at&t cannot ask for it to not be deployed. So you will at most be 1 update behind. This is awesome because not only does it ensure the carrier's can have their say, but in the end the end user will ultimately get the update, and not be left shafted like they do with Android. With Android, i'm sure you've experienced it already, but devices easily get left out in the cold when OEMs and Carriers are trying their best to push new products, and not worry about the older ones. And this is where you have to then start joining xda community and start rooting your phone to just keep it up to date, but then you don't really have a consistent experience and it requires you always checking back here, and in some cases flashing nightly.
As for whether it will be around for the long haul, MS has put HEAPS into this, a lot more than the kin (verizon is rumoured to bring the kin back anyways), and they've done the UI to most extent and now can focus on improving the current set of already high quality features, and bringing in new ones. This is all uniform across any windows phone. so when you go to pick up a different windows phone you can be assured you already know how to use it (yes... the iPhone style experience, but it does work and work well). And what would you prefer... a start screen that may look a bit bland at the start, but once you pin things you really want to it, it colours up... or have a sea of app icons to filter through to find that 1 thing you want... only to realise you hit the wrong icon when you get there (what I see a lot with my iPhone friends). Don't get me wrong though, I am a bit of a fan of different start screens that Android provides, but then you have to have all these widgets, and finding the right one can take forever, and if the widget isn't programmed right, it could be more problematic (causing instability, inconsistency in experience, and possibly even loss of battery).
In the end, each has their strengths and weaknesses, that's for sure. WP current weakness is the lack of apps, not all the common features in (custom ringtones as an example), and multi-tasking which everyone seems to have a big deal about now. Like i said on a different thread, when considering a windows phone, know what you do a lot of, find out if you can do it in windows phone, and if not, are you willing to give it up. Not to say that you won't be able to do it period, it could come in the form of an update, but look at it from the here and now, and then also would you be happy waiting till that rumoured update.
The Gate Keeper said:
Zune takes care of most of the common video files and converts them for you.
I'll clarify a few things for you from the posts above and focus it on your original post.
Zune itself is a little different to get use to compared to other media players, but it's quite lite in running, and grows on you over time. it's very well presented and works far better than iTunes that's for sure. It actually closes properly with huge libraries (try it on iTunes and watch the processes on your PC, see how long iTunes takes to close...).
MicroSD... it is definitely confusing, but from all the chatter, if you're after space, buy the Focus, use a Sandisk/Kingston class 4 32GB card, and you'll have a total of 40GB (8gb onboard). This trumpts the iPhone 4's 32GB offering. Which takes care of your space issues. And given you're in the US, get a Zune Pass and you get unlimited streaming of music (only limited to your carrier, don't want to blow your phone bill), and you get to keep 10 songs a month which is within the Zune Pass subscription.
Apps are growing, they're just about to pass 3,000. As a developer, i'm starting to get my head around windows phone. if you want to develop, it's far easier for windows phone than any other platform, and there is a lot of support online from MS and the community in terms of C# and silverlight (which is where you'll start). If you're not a dev, there are a lot of well known apps already available, and more coming by the day (e.g. wordpress is rumoured to be working on a wp7 app, which should be great for those who are constant bloggers).
Updates, yes carriers can block them, but only 1 round. Let me give you an example, say MS says that we have an update coming Jan, but at&t haven't finished testing with this update, they can ask MS to not deploy to their phones, and MS will not. Then MS comes along (let's say in may [made up]) and says, we have another update. the update that at&t asked not to deploy will be included with this, and at&t cannot ask for it to not be deployed. So you will at most be 1 update behind. This is awesome because not only does it ensure the carrier's can have their say, but in the end the end user will ultimately get the update, and not be left shafted like they do with Android. With Android, i'm sure you've experienced it already, but devices easily get left out in the cold when OEMs and Carriers are trying their best to push new products, and not worry about the older ones. And this is where you have to then start joining xda community and start rooting your phone to just keep it up to date, but then you don't really have a consistent experience and it requires you always checking back here, and in some cases flashing nightly.
As for whether it will be around for the long haul, MS has put HEAPS into this, a lot more than the kin (verizon is rumoured to bring the kin back anyways), and they've done the UI to most extent and now can focus on improving the current set of already high quality features, and bringing in new ones. This is all uniform across any windows phone. so when you go to pick up a different windows phone you can be assured you already know how to use it (yes... the iPhone style experience, but it does work and work well). And what would you prefer... a start screen that may look a bit bland at the start, but once you pin things you really want to it, it colours up... or have a sea of app icons to filter through to find that 1 thing you want... only to realise you hit the wrong icon when you get there (what I see a lot with my iPhone friends). Don't get me wrong though, I am a bit of a fan of different start screens that Android provides, but then you have to have all these widgets, and finding the right one can take forever, and if the widget isn't programmed right, it could be more problematic (causing instability, inconsistency in experience, and possibly even loss of battery).
In the end, each has their strengths and weaknesses, that's for sure. WP current weakness is the lack of apps, not all the common features in (custom ringtones as an example), and multi-tasking which everyone seems to have a big deal about now. Like i said on a different thread, when considering a windows phone, know what you do a lot of, find out if you can do it in windows phone, and if not, are you willing to give it up. Not to say that you won't be able to do it period, it could come in the form of an update, but look at it from the here and now, and then also would you be happy waiting till that rumoured update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent man! Awesome post, Ive decided that WP7 it is! Funny how things change....a couple of weeks ago I was telling my bro how Great Android is and how I would never get an iphone or a WP, Ive been literally all day though researching WP and like you said the things that are missing will come in future updates.
solidkevin said:
Excellent man! Awesome post, Ive decided that WP7 it is! Funny how things change....a couple of weeks ago I was telling my bro how Great Android is and how I would never get an iphone or a WP, Ive been literally all day though researching WP and like you said the things that are missing will come in future updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
disclaimer -P): there is no guarnetee that the features you want will be coming in an update any time soon, but hopefully a lot of the ones you desire (and the rest of us) will. but all we can do is wait and actually see.
solidkevin said:
So yea I have been a long time Android user and I have had no interest in WP7 after using WM6-6.5, not an iphone guy either, Android just feels right at home for me, so anyway a couple weeks ago my Captivate fell and broke, now I need a new phone, Naturally Android was my first choice and I decided that I was gonna wait for the Olympus that is heavily rumored for ATT in Jan, So all is well....until I see a WP7 commercial and it hits me! "You know what! Lemme check this out, lets see if this is even gonna last against Android and iOS" I tell myself, so I hope on my laptop and start checking out the phones and looking at UI breakthroughs/reviews. At first I thought the UI was a little weird but as the review went on I started liking more and more! Now I think hands down its the best looking OS on a mobile (I used to give that to WebOS), so with the combination of the great looking and fast UI, Single OS and updates across all phones which is important to me because as a heavy android user that has had many Android phones, I can tell you a lot of Custom UIs just SUCK, and most of these phones arent future proof as without rooting you will never get an update.
Im really interested but there are some things that do worry me, first of all I still love android and Im still trying to choose which one.
At first I was really annoyed that you have to use the Zune software to add music, Vids, Pics etc, but I guess its not as bad as that crap they call iTunes.
Wtf is up with all this MicroSD card talk? This is something that is very important to me as I listen to a LOT of music and need that extra memory, If I get WP7, The Focus is the phone I will get, but I need to know my MicroSD will work.
How about the Apps, I have yet to check out the Apps on the Zune Software but how fast do you think MS will catchup? I mean WP7 at 1000, Android at 100,000, and iOs at 300,000, quite a big gap.
Updates are very important to me, I hate to feel like I have an outdated phone, will MS send out the updates or do we have to wait for the Carriers?
And finally the biggest and most important question of all, will WP7 succeed, at this point it looks like WP7 is already at a high level in terms of UI and everything in its infancy stages, but is that enough? Will it ever catch up to Android and more importantly iOS? Will it catch on with the people? This wont be another Kin right? lol
Overall Im VERY interested and seriously considering the jump, there are some minor things that I wanna see fixed and there are some things holding me back such as the MicroSD issue (very important to me as 8gb is not enough for me), and the Olympus (waiting to see how it is).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are so many threads like this on this forum.... i dont get it why ppl want to load Android on WP7 still...
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
come on guys if you put your self in the shoes of Microsoft you will do the same thing.... why you should allow ppl to load some other OS on your device... when microsoft have spant time, money and effort in developing a new OS (i will not say good or great as i know time will tell what WP7 will do)
truffle1234 said:
there are so many threads like this on this forum.... i dont get it why ppl want to load Android on WP7 still...
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
come on guys if you put your self in the shoes of Microsoft you will do the same thing.... why you should allow ppl to load some other OS on your device... when microsoft have spant time, money and effort in developing a new OS (i will not say good or great as i know time will tell what WP7 will do)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, did you actually read the OP???
The person wants to use WP7 as a WP7 device not to load Android on it.
truffle1234 said:
there are so many threads like this on this forum.... i dont get it why ppl want to load Android on WP7 still...
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
come on guys if you put your self in the shoes of Microsoft you will do the same thing.... why you should allow ppl to load some other OS on your device... when microsoft have spant time, money and effort in developing a new OS (i will not say good or great as i know time will tell what WP7 will do)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok.....next time try reading the thread first before responding
lqaddict said:
Umm, did you actually read the OP???
The person wants to use WP7 as a WP7 device not to load Android on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea, he said he is coming from android and looking at windows phone.
As an owner of several devices ranging from all 4 generations of the iPhone, Dell Streak, Nexus One, HTC G2 and my most recent device the Samsung Focus I must say that the OS is just plain slick. The OS is fast and very responsive. I struggled with the whole micro sd card issue to and just went out on a limb and purchased the Transcend class 2 32gb from Amazon.
I installed the card per the instructions and had a total storage of 36.90 GB after the format was completed. I have had no problems with the phone at all without a certified micro sd card.
The phone is great, my only problem is I have to get used to how easy the phone is to use. It's very intuitive once you forget that it's not android or ios. No looking back for me.
I have tried the lot, wm5, wm6, wm6.5, web0s, android and iOS (on an iPad). Wp7 is the best for me, even with it's current limitations.
truffle1234 said:
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The memory card thing makes sense given what they're trying to achieve.
1. They want to make it simplier for the consumer, when the consumer installs an app they don't see Onboard/My Storage/SD Card. It's arcane to the general consumer; The consolidated space makes it easier to understand.
2. Allows flexibility to OEM to choose whatever storage mechanism they see fit eg: NAND, SD Card
The Gate Keeper said:
disclaimer -P): there is no guarnetee that the features you want will be coming in an update any time soon, but hopefully a lot of the ones you desire (and the rest of us) will. but all we can do is wait and actually see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, the biggest updates i wanna see is an iOS style of multitasking, and copy paste. Everything else, like apps for example will just take time.
There may already be several threads in other sections discussing this anticipated update, but I thought why not. Happy New Years Ladies and Gentlemen.
Microsoft has stuck to their slogan "Early 2011".
The little blue birdy however flew a little closer to sources and overheard "January".
As of now, the update has not yet been released obviously so this gives us all the opportunity to discuss some of our individual expectations from this upcoming update. You may have heard, there may be several updates, not only one.
Let's try not to get too loony but in all seriousness, when I first purchased my HTC MOZART with WP7 I did so without much research and maybe too much faith in Microsoft.
I thought MAC - PC, IPhone - WP7
I can tell you all now, I was severely traumatized by my experience when I first discovered I couldn't customise my ring-tone. With tears still pouring down my face, and Chevron still non existent, I went to Copy and Paste something. It was then that I learnt that the World had already ended.
Now like I said, we can't expect too much but I just want to state what I personally believe and after some scrutiny of my opinion wisely believe I'm in the position to state several of the most 'CRUCIAL' changes that need to take place ASAP on WP7. The severity of leaving these features out has already taken on another dimension. Some features were intentionally left out for future profiteering and others simply because the potential of such features could be exploited in unexpected ways.
Taking this path however has led some of Microsoft's most loyal customers questioning the developmental plans and reasoning's behind a number of decisions.
You have to think, these phones aren't toys. These phones (due to the mandatory specifications Microsoft has set) pack quite a powerful punch in terms of processing capabilities. The true capabilities of these technologies seriously can be quite dazzling. For one reason or another, unfortunately such open technology will probably never fall into the hands of the masses.
However, they seem to have gone a bit too far with the intentional tampering of functionality and the unprecedented level of scrutiny has left Microsoft scrambling to find the excuses, and forced them to re-think their relationship with their customers.
Julian Assange is here questioning which governments are responsible for all these dead civilians and we need to seriously point exactly at the people in charge (Governments - Developers all the same) and demand why, with the level of power they hold, the technology, funds and potential they have access too, are there basic features missing on these GOD DAM PHONES!?
One might state, "If you don't like it, then go somewhere else!"
Well "NO!" is what I would say. Why am I being forced to use outdated technology just to enable me to change my ring-tone! It seems the more we human beings accomplish technologically, the less we are able to utilize it with some common sense. One step forward, two steps back!
It is these corporations that hold the responsibility and have the obligation to set a standard with technological advancements. They are the leading manufacturers, researchers and developers enabling the wonderful standard of life we all possess today. BUT, you have to remember, the people at the front end of these achievements need to be held accountable when a phone shows up on the market that doesn't allow one to change their ring-tone! We as a group of human beings are able to discuss and elaborate. If we are standing here in 2011 with a phone that doesn't allow one to change their ring-tone, we need to stop and start wondering what the hell is going on.
"Yes, I just payed top dollar for one of the most advanced phones out there! So advanced you don't need to change your ring-tone, you just select one out of a list! HOW INGENIUS! "
"Yes, I just payed two million pounds for a luxurious house! It's so freakin high class and luxurious it doesn't even have any DOORS OR WINDOWS!"
See the similarity?
Please Microsoft, give me my Ring-tone back. Give me the Flash Player I deserve. Give me my Landscape Address Bar in MIE. Give me my Multitasking. Give me my Copy/Cut & Paste. Give me my Media player that allows me to Fast Forward/Rewind with my own fingers. YOUTUBE BY HTC DID! Give my USB storage functionality! After all, there is a memory card in there! Give me a voice on my Maps to let me know when I have to turn. Do something about this 'SEARCH' button please. It keeps interrupting me on practically everything I try to do on the phone. At least create a locking mechanism or even give me the option to use it for something more USEFUL! BING IT OFF. Get it?
Anybody else with any realistic functions they believe is a basic requirement? If so please name them.
When the Update is finally released, we can further elaborate on the improvements. I'm sure there will be improvements. WP7 can do better!
Best Regards, Dontworry
Man if only Bluetooth file transfers could be added in the update..
I have a samsung i780 for 2 years already
I lost my mind and bought one HTC HD7 without researching
Please microsoft, do not make me regret more than I already am
it's sad that I feel better with my old i780 with a fake copy of WM6.5
listen to this man, makes us happy.
Guys you must not compare it with the win 6.x phones. Please jsut think about the potential and look at what you do with this phone instead of what it can't.
I jumped from my beloved pimped qtek 9000 to HD7 and i must say.....even if the qtek is so yesterday .... but the WM 6,5 with working bluetooth-Garmin XT and other cool features was untill today way better than WM7.
I Understand that the 7 software is still in developement, but it is not yet worth the money, the time that i invested just to find out why the bluetooth wouldnt work and so on and so on.
I honestly believed that it would be a realy woooooow phone but it is not. So far it is an overpriced not so usefull dissapoitement.
llejk said:
Guys you must not compare it with the win 6.x phones. Please jsut think about the potential and look at what you do with this phone instead of what it can't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well 4 starters........it would be very usefull if it "could" establish a bluetooth connection with my qtek or for that mater with my hp laptop. That would be wooooooow. On the other hand it cant do much more than a HD2 with a pimped WM 6,5.
Search key really annoy my Mozart
Double click or confirm or somethings for HOME (Start) key in running applications
I want Proximity sensor to disable all key when cover with somethings else
(in running applications)
sorry for my poor ENGLISH
guys u are wasting time and space on XDA by creating those use less threads.... there are so many out there...
i feel so sorry for those ppl who buy things with out knowing what they are getting and then B#%@& about it like a girl... no one put a gun to your head to buy a WP7, u did it with the free will...
and come on i gave up on the Samsung i780 in 6 months as it was a mistake i made buying, which i corrected by getting a HTC Touch Pro. the screen was crap as the touch penal never work... the screen size did not allow me to run so many apps, it was so slow... so if u have used i780 for 2 years u should be glad that u bought a WP7 device as its smooth and fast..
CES is around the corner and i think the update will be launched there....
Peter V8 said:
Well 4 starters........it would be very usefull if it "could" establish a bluetooth connection with my qtek or for that mater with my hp laptop. That would be wooooooow. On the other hand it cant do much more than a HD2 with a pimped WM 6,5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
come on u want to compare WP7 devices with your qtek..... u must be kidding me... is that company still making PDA???
i am using HD7 since the frist week of its launch... and as i have unlimited data plan i can send all the files by email, so no need to file transfer, my photos are sent to my sky drive so any one with access can view or download it.
a house so luxurious it has no windows..... wow great place to throw stones huh... just sayin... plus i agree nobody twisted anyones arm to buy one.... the fanboys need to stop cryin like girls... and i can say that... im a girl...
truffle1234 said:
come on u want to compare WP7 devices with your qtek..... u must be kidding me... is that company still making PDA???
i am using HD7 since the frist week of its launch... and as i have unlimited data plan i can send all the files by email, so no need to file transfer, my photos are sent to my sky drive so any one with access can view or download it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont want to compare anything and it wouldnt be fair, but on the qtek the bluetooth worked and with WIMO 6,5 by Tomal it was fast.
Oh and i dont need a phone for sending some pics to a sky drive to show them to other people. A working bluetooth would be fine.
Oh and changing ringtones too.
Get the point?
Adobe reader also.....more for a job thing than sending photos. The qtek made a hell of a job there regarding my buisiness.
So the post with the lux house....is not so far fetched after all :-D:-D:-D
cut it off guys
if you dont like it, you can just find more suitable phone for you
but be sure that you do some research on that phone before you buy
and stop whinning about this is not good compare to that...blah blah
hassler said:
cut it off guys
if you dont like it, you can just find more suitable phone for you
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you are right. And it seems that soon many people will do so as downgrading mobile computer (which was any WM6.x device) to just fancy phone is not what the people doing real job with the phone are expecting. I'm just waiting for the WP7 update and if it does not contain the mandatory tethering ... bye-bye WP7. Too expensive toy ... that does nothing
prr said:
Too expensive toy ... that does nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it does everything a Phone should.... your expectations are obviously higher then this.
Mine does everything I need, after coming from iPhone 4 and Desire HD there isn't anything in particular that I miss. Yes, it doesn't have all the same features but that's the same with any platform you choose.
I know the in's and out's of being an early adopter, but frickin come on MS!! I HAVE ZERO ACCESS TO MY VIDEOS TO SHARE WITH THE WORLD! I'VE HAD THAT SINCE MY FIRST NOKIA SMARTPHONE BACK IN 2001!!
I WANT TO AT LEAST HAVE ACCESS TI EMAIL OR UPLOAD A DAMN VIDEO WHEN I WANT!!!
RIGHT NOW MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCK ON AND IT WON'T TURN OFF...FML!!
I LOVE THE FOUNDATIONS OF WP7, BUT PERSONALLY I REQUIRE BETTER INTEGRATED MULTIMEDIA SUPPORT.
2 HOT ANDROID PHONES DROPPING ON TMO SOON, I MIGHT JUMP ON ANDROID FOR THE FIRST TIME...
CYPH
SORRY FOR THE CAPS, STILL STUCK! :|
I say Troll
Sent from my Samsung Focus using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Madcypher said:
I know the in's and out's of being an early adopter, but frickin come on MS!! I HAVE ZERO ACCESS TO MY VIDEOS TO SHARE WITH THE WORLD! I'VE HAD THAT SINCE MY FIRST NOKIA SMARTPHONE BACK IN 2001!!
I WANT TO AT LEAST HAVE ACCESS TI EMAIL OR UPLOAD A DAMN VIDEO WHEN I WANT!!!
RIGHT NOW MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCK ON AND IT WON'T TURN OFF...FML!!
I LOVE THE FOUNDATIONS OF WP7, BUT PERSONALLY I REQUIRE BETTER INTEGRATED MULTIMEDIA SUPPORT.
2 HOT ANDROID PHONES DROPPING ON TMO SOON, I MIGHT JUMP ON ANDROID FOR THE FIRST TIME...
CYPH
SORRY FOR THE CAPS, STILL STUCK! :|
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this may be the most retarded post ever
and on april fools day...ha I wondered where you were hiding
Caps lock stuck? Really? Come on now, its 2011. You can use a better excuse.
and why is this person a troll?? cause he misses a feature he's so used to?? or the caps??
Anyway,
i'd suggest u find(and use) another OS(platform) - cause at the moment
-wp7- is, what it is...
i personally use several smartphones(desire,bb9700,i4,omnia2,e72...optimus-7), i like wp7 and believe it has a future but at the moment wp7 is not molded for many of us "smart" users...
Let me tell u another thing- many here (especially the fanboys) use wp7 as a second,third or forth phone.... And they're not objective when asked bout oppinion(and maybe have some sort of material benefits from MS for -not being too much critical of the OS-)
to sum it up for u
- you'll be better of with andro(or symbian, or winmo, or iOs) if u need FUNCTIONS as much as it gets...
- wp7 will progress in time...
ps- since microsoft's MiX conference is nearing (12-14.04) u can also wait a bit and maybe we will all be surprised...
It has more than enough functions, and they referred to him as a troll because his caps chose this hate filled post to get stuck? Two lines in?
I don't see what's so "powerful" about Android, WinPhone handles the functions I use every day much better than Android... Honestly, how many times do you really need to access a registry or file system? If its more than 3 in a year, maybe you should look for an OS you don't need to modify to be functional
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
It's not about what you need everyday. It's about what the entire smartphone market needs everyday. You alone are not a factor and Microsoft could care less if you flushed your WP7 device down the toilet and went to iOS or Symbian...
WP7 is functionally thin. It's not exactly a mystery, and the "it does whatever I need it to" is getting a bit old (and always has been kind of idiotic to read in every damn thread, TBQH).
Lots of people are having to access the registry and file system, because the base OS hides tons of stuff from users. And I'm not talking about advanced stuff: Loading Custom Ringtons, Changing the Default Browser Search back to Bing from Google, Setting a Browser Home Page, etc. are not advanced features and certainly do not display the power of any smartphone OS.
And for those features to be "functional," yes, WP7 needs to be modified.
The difference between WP7 and Android/iOS atm is that thsoe OSes are modded to get advanced functionality. WP7 is modded to get basic **** that has been on feature phones for almost 1.5 decades working on the phone.
Stop making excuses for the platform and pressure Microsoft to "finish" it. Early Adopter is not analogous to "Beta Tester."
Not to mention it's a bit late to call WP7 users Early Adopters, anyways...
Or you could do what everyone else did and read a review or two of the os. What it can and can't do and stop complaining about not having features that everyone knows is not there yet.
Just a thought...
Sent from my LG-C900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I dont understand, why buy something that doesnt meet your requirements in the first place? You wouldnt expect someone to buy an android device and then post how they want to remove the complex features because they cant handle all the options, would you? You dont have to buy a WP7 device you know, there ARE alternatives, get what suits you, problem solved.
I hope those responses weren't directed at me.
Oh look..... another thread full of the same old thing....
"Your a troll..."
"Your a fanboy.... "
Blah blah blah........
Seriously....... Grow up.
Thread closed.
Today june 10 i walk into a Orange shop in the UK to ask a question as i was having some network issue and wanted to know if it was from the carrier side of things But when i got in the shop i got distracted because there was a couple there to upgrade a phone ( the wife was ) you know they were speaking loud so me been nosey started tolisten keenly
Well the husband was saying to his wife get the Lg e900 which is a Windows Phone and the salesman was saying to get a HTC Wildfire S well this lady explain and said i want it for basic internet browsing,facebook app and a few other things and so on.
The lady herself really like the Lg e900 but didnt wanna chose it ONLY because she trusted the salesman knowledge over her husbands ( which was obviously the wrong thing to do ) so he the husband kept saying i know my wife for 18 years and i know what she'll like this is a guy that doesnt own a WP7 himself but obviously done his research unlike the salesperson. But he got so fed up of telling his wife so he said (you know what honey get HTC just know that i will not be coming to return it with you.
Like i said this woman liked the Lg WP7 over the HTC Android but because the Orange guy kept saying get the Htc she was a little convinced, so I (just a random guy in the shop) walked over and handed her my own LG e900 and said heres a live model give it a go then decide for yourself, she loved the tiles she like zune i explained it was a simple to use phone and never have to worry update the software been upto date showed her facebook and so on. Right there and then the lady was convinced her husband was smiling all the way through because he knew his wife was confused.
And yes she walk out the store with LG Wp7 maybe my phone broke so i could help someone else out. Microsoft really need to step into these retail stores if they're going to sell Windows Phone because the salesteam dont have a clue and are not promoting the platform. The guy did not have a clue about windows phone he ask me if it was easy to use just imaging that. If i wasnt there at that time the woman would have gone home not even knowing how to set up a email on her Wildfire becuase of confusing UI on the phone... i dont know what to think
I agree its pretty bad. I would think MS has gotten wind of this, but if not, they are going to get it now with all the blogs running stories on it (like the PCMag article). Not only do they typically not have a clue the difference between WM & WP, they are almost always hellbent on selling iPhone or Android, and have plenty of misinformation on the wp7 as a whole.
Its very easy to sway the typical consumer as they will not have much knowledge on platforms, and need to rely on the sales reps to guide them. This is not helping wp7.
Now now. Android, u see is a mature platform which doesn't have a confusing ui. What's confusing? A 5 page homescreen where u can put some Widgets to dress up? Then press a button at the bottom and access your apps in alphabetical order? I think that is a much cleaner ui. And no offence but wp7 has no 3d games which can entertain u for countless hours when ur stuck somewhere. So no disrespect to another os. And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Exactly this poor woman didn't have a clue, her husband said she all liked the Omnia 7 but it was too big which tell me she was more interested in the wp7 she just wanted a phone that was easy to use for Facebook and social stuff.
The salesman had a Motorola Atrix which I'm guessing is a good android dualcore phone but a 600mhz Wildfire running android can't compare with wp7 at all. Its just bad. Funny enuff there were 2 wp7 sales guy there I'm guessing they didn't notice what was going on right under thier noses doe becus when I convince the lady they were the ones that showed her how to use the phone.
Sent from my LG-E900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
There was an article just yesterday about that: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386647,00.asp
Microsoft certainly knows the issue but I think they're waiting for Mango and Nokia to be ready to make a proper push. Alos they need to make Apple like TV adverts to show people how easy it is to use instead of the generic spots they're running at the moment. That way people would walk into the shop knowing what they want and won't be dependent on salesmen. Mind you I had a similar experience with Android... My girlfriend was due an upgrade (from a Blackberry) so I advised her to go for a Nexus S to get stock Android, good battery life, Gingerbread and all future updates fast. I have a Windows Phone myself but knowing her she would be frustrated by the lack of apps (most of what she uses isn't on WP7 yet) and broken notifications/tiles.
The guy fought her on the choice, saying the Nexus S was the worst Android phone . He wanted her to go for a Galaxy S 2 because of the huge screen and dual-core processor. I mean, come man you're talking to a woman who will mostly use the phone for basic purposes so
a) 4.3" is way too big a screen and
b) what's dual-core to her? She couldn't care less, she's not a geek.
Salesmen are usually useless and don't know what they're talking about.
The woman didn't care about 3d games or what os is more mature. She actaully used my phone with her own hands and knew exactly what she was getting. Fair enough if she prefered the android phone but I believe the salesman was trying to sell her one strictly because he used one and didn't have a clue about the other os. I'm quite sure the wildfire does not use the latest version of android and only god knows when she would of got it and how troublesome it would have been for her. I ain't disrespecting another Os just talking from experience
jamreal said:
The woman didn't care about 3d games or what os is more mature. She actaully used my phone with her own hands and knew exactly what she was getting. Fair enough if she prefered the android phone but I believe the salesman was trying to sell her one strictly because he used one and didn't have a clue about the other os. I'm quite sure the wildfire does not use the latest version of android and only god knows when she would of got it and how troublesome it would have been for her. I ain't disrespecting another Os just talking from experience
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see why the salesman would only promote android. I mean he must have had a go with a phone from all sorts of OS's. Oh well, im happy she is happy
webstar1 said:
And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And WP7 doesn't?
(it does)
webstar1 said:
Now now. Android, u see is a mature platform which doesn't have a confusing ui. What's confusing? A 5 page homescreen where u can put some Widgets to dress up? Then press a button at the bottom and access your apps in alphabetical order? I think that is a much cleaner ui. And no offence but wp7 has no 3d games which can entertain u for countless hours when ur stuck somewhere. So no disrespect to another os. And btw, when u first start a android phone it takes u thru a setup guide including logging in to ur gmail.
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For gadget geeks like us, Android isn't confusing. It's actually the easiest system of them all for all-around usefulness. But for ordinary everyday users, yes, Android can be quite confusing compared to the utter simplicity of WP7. You can't get more simplistic than WP7 and that is what the ordinary user will desire. WP7 has 2 screens. One screen is where the apps are. The other screen is the live tiles of the chosen apps. There is no confusion of how to add widgets on a screen or find specific features to enable. The ordinary user will most assuredly be confused by Android at first. But if they did stick with it and put a little time into knowing it, it will become utterly simple to them. The out-of-the-box simplicity, though, goes to WP7. There is really no learning at all. They just tap the tile of the app they want to use and off they go.
The ordinary user can also simply go into the app drawer of Android and tap an icon of any app they want to use, but the customizing features in Android cause them to be confused about how they need to use Android....do they add the widget to a screen to make it work properly or do the enable some menu setting to make it work properly. Maybe they feel they aren't getting the most out of the apps they want to use because they don't understand Android completely right out of the box.
As I said, for us, Android is a no-brainer. But we are acutely familiar with it. The ordinary customer who wants a system to be familiar right from the box will find WP7 fits the need. And the quality and smoothness of WP7 will sell them immediately. Then when they have used it for a while, they will start seeing how reliable it is and be quite content with it in its utter simplicity.
They probably get better commission if you take an android phone. Simple.
Especially a cheap low end device like a wildfire.
It's not like a salesman actually gives a crap about what's right for the customer, once your out of that door it's not his problem anymore.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I said this on a different forum, and I believe it is relevant in this thread.
MS does a good job of having their reps go around to stores like Office Depot, Best Buy, etc to inform reps about their products, give them free stuff, and in general make the sales reps have positive things to think about MS. They need to do this in the mobile channel, otherwise this is going to be a even harder uphill battle for them. They can advertise all they want, but getting on the good side of sales reps is where it is going to help them a ton.
conantroutman said:
They probably get better commission if you take an android phone. Simple.
Especially a cheap low end device like a wildfire.
It's not like a salesman actually gives a crap about what's right for the customer, once your out of that door it's not his problem anymore.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
Wyn6 said:
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
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Absolutely the same experience I get everywhere. Why do you want windows phone? Why not get android?
It gets to the point to where I say either you give me what I want or I leave this store you don't get comission, and I demand users don't give the store patronage...
Then I get what I want =)
That brings back the question... Is the Windows name hurting WP7? Reading your post it seems it does.
Wyn6 said:
Actually, walked into a Verizon store about a week and a half ago and asked if they had the Trophy in yet as it was rumored to be in some stores. The rep immediately asked me why I wanted a WP7. Then tried to sell me an android. I left. BUt, afterwards I got to thinking, and went back to the store.
I asked him if they received a larger commission on android phones and he said, no. So, I asked why he was so intent on pushing android over WP7. He claimed that wp7 was only good for business purposes but not for everyday use, "social stuff" and games. It was obvious that he was confusing it with WM. He also had an android.
I showed him my DVP and some games and "social stuff". Told him about the finer points of WP7 and that it wasn't WM. He had to admit it was cool. Told him when the Trophy came in, play around with it and learn about it.
Otherwise, this was a typical in-store scenario.
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Peew971 said:
That brings back the question... Is the Windows name hurting WP7? Reading your post it seems it does.
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I'd say the Windows name definitely gives people a slightly negative first reaction, but I think that will subside over time as people see the quality of product MS is releasing as of late. I admit, I didn't give wp7 the time of day when I first saw it. I thought the tiles were ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. But a few months after its release I started looking at it more and tried it, it took about 5 minutes to fall in love with its modern UI, and see where MS was headed.
The media being 90% pro apple doesn't help them any either. Its amazing how much coverage of Apple goes on, and how little goes on about MS. And the tone of the coverage is much different for the respective companies as well. But I do think respect for MS is steadily growing as of late, and people will not be able to ignore the quality of their products for very long.
dtboos said:
I'd say the Windows name definitely gives people a slightly negative first reaction, but I think that will subside over time as people see the quality of product MS is releasing as of late. I admit, I didn't give wp7 the time of day when I first saw it. I thought the tiles were ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. But a few months after its release I started looking at it more and tried it, it took about 5 minutes to fall in love with its modern UI, and see where MS was headed.
The media being 90% pro apple doesn't help them any either. Its amazing how much coverage of Apple goes on, and how little goes on about MS. And the tone of the coverage is much different for the respective companies as well. But I do think respect for MS is steadily growing as of late, and people will not be able to ignore the quality of their products for very long.
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it's not really the windows name
it's the opinion csr's indicate to people about windows
I still think it's all down to advertising, people need to see what the WP7 experience is about on their TV. Apple gets criticism for the adverts they put out but that's what talks to people. Sure every iPhone feature exists on other phones but they've never been advertised so simply as to make someone think "I wish I had that". This is what Microsoft needs to do once Mango is out to make people wish they had a WP7 even before stepping into a shop.
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Peew971 said:
I still think it's all down to advertising, people need to see what the WP7 experience is about on their TV. Apple gets criticism for the adverts they put out but that's what talks to people. Sure every iPhone feature exists on other phones but they've never been advertised so simply as to make someone think "I wish I had that". This is what Microsoft needs to do once Mango is out to make people wish they had a WP7 even before stepping into a shop.
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+1 on that. I rarely see advertisments for WP7 over here in Germany. And the few I see point out features Android and iOS is already famous for. From my point of view what they need to let people know is what makes WP7 unique. First of all the UI, but not to forget about how deeply features are integrated into the system in comparison to other mobile OSes. And of course the ease of use even for people who are not as much of a geek as most of us here at XDA are. Which is still the majority of smartphone users.
jamreal said:
Today june 10 i walk into a Orange shop in the UK to ask a question as i was having some network issue and wanted to know if it was from the carrier side of things But when i got in the shop i got distracted because there was a couple there to upgrade a phone ( the wife was ) you know they were speaking loud so me been nosey started tolisten keenly
Well the husband was saying to his wife get the Lg e900 which is a Windows Phone and the salesman was saying to get a HTC Wildfire S well this lady explain and said i want it for basic internet browsing,facebook app and a few other things and so on.
The lady herself really like the Lg e900 but didnt wanna chose it ONLY because she trusted the salesman knowledge over her husbands ( which was obviously the wrong thing to do ) so he the husband kept saying i know my wife for 18 years and i know what she'll like this is a guy that doesnt own a WP7 himself but obviously done his research unlike the salesperson. But he got so fed up of telling his wife so he said (you know what honey get HTC just know that i will not be coming to return it with you.
Like i said this woman liked the Lg WP7 over the HTC Android but because the Orange guy kept saying get the Htc she was a little convinced, so I (just a random guy in the shop) walked over and handed her my own LG e900 and said heres a live model give it a go then decide for yourself, she loved the tiles she like zune i explained it was a simple to use phone and never have to worry update the software been upto date showed her facebook and so on. Right there and then the lady was convinced her husband was smiling all the way through because he knew his wife was confused.
And yes she walk out the store with LG Wp7 maybe my phone broke so i could help someone else out. Microsoft really need to step into these retail stores if they're going to sell Windows Phone because the salesteam dont have a clue and are not promoting the platform. The guy did not have a clue about windows phone he ask me if it was easy to use just imaging that. If i wasnt there at that time the woman would have gone home not even knowing how to set up a email on her Wildfire becuase of confusing UI on the phone... i dont know what to think
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email is fairly simple on any platform now. username, password, sync options, done.
i hear ya being an evangalist for your chosen platform. nothing like helping a person out.
this past week, i paid attention around the hotel (vacation @ the beach) and noticed one wp7 being used by the pool. everything, and i mean everything (the maids too) was android. i'd count 8 android devices for every 2 iphones. really surprised at the ratio myself.
sooooo, the one wp7 device was a teenage/twentysomething girl @ the pool, and her friends are all "Hey what is that ?" i'm assuming they didn't recognize the UI. she showed them, and they were impressed with the "swooshies" of the UI. there was a bar, so i'm assuming anything that looks neat to a 20 something crowd is 'swooshie' after a few drinks.
a couple of minutes into her impromptu demo, they said, who made it ? she answered samsung... and they asked again, "No, i mean like is that a new android, cause it's not my iphone!"
when she replied "it's a windows phone, my dad develops or something"
immediately there was no interest. none. back to texting, fb'ing, whatever 20somethings do poolside on handsets.
keep in mind i'm watching my kids play (not drown) and there's music, beach, a fire pit, etc so plenty to distract me. the level of crickets chirping silence after declaring it was 'windows' was astonishing.
ignorance ? yep. bliss ? yep.
i did notice two other wp7 devices while i was logging WAP's from the room though. lets assume the wp7 users were very techy, and trying to hack the crap ATT wireless access points, cause otherwise their connections were not secured.
my age group is a bunch of idiots. Time and time again, we don't know anything...the above example proves that