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Is winmo7 gonna be the end of winmo development here at xda? It's totally new, and its gonna be really hard to port it to existing winmo phones, and its a lot more locked down...
I was wondering the same thing after watching the press event video, which is why I came here to see reaction.
As long as there is a registry it hackable... I feel sorry for HTC or cannot customise their phones to have a unique selling point over other OEM's
It seems MS have built it for the sole purpose of cracking the "consumer" market. Looks incredibly pretty and i'm sure it will "work", however, whether it will be as appealing to the xda-dev community is another question!! A bit too early to say it's the end, but just from viewing the promotional videos, I can see my love for Android growing further!!
windows phone 7 has got me quite excited.. looking fwd to use it come december 2010.
I think you're right that it's just too early to tell. I hope you're right about the registry/hackable comment, though.
I am wondering would Microsoft be so stupid to create almost a totally new OS. If they do, i believe there will some sort of migrator to migrate apps to the new os. However i am seriously disappointed if they decide to remove mutiltask.
6.5.3 will remain alive and well for enterprise and developing markets, so even if we can't port winmo 7 there will still be updates to 6.5. Either way, MS has pretty much destroyed new app development for 6.5, as many of the major players will probably wait to develop exclusively for 7. I'm definately excited about 7 though; in the meantime it looks like android will be your friend if your looking for apps.
I think it will be a new beginning. However, the new SDK will likely be based on WPF or Silverlight, so the .NET knowledge of the current developers can be applied (however, WPF has IMHO a steep learning curve) and some code can be transferred. Game development will likely be based on XNA (you can already create Zune XNA games).
The big question for me is: Is publishing/installation of new applications as easy as it is currently the case? The worst case scenario would be a mandatory marketplace and you have to pay a fee to get your application added. However, I think that Microsoft will be going a developer-friendly way, because the third party applications will make or brake the OS.
The worst case scenario would be a mandatory marketplace and you have to pay a fee to get your application added.
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That's exactly what's happening...
i just hope, that the multi billion dollar companies, make everything in the phone work the way it has to, and not wait till some regular people on this forum turn the phone into a good device.. seriously, i buy a WM knowing that its crap, just cause i know that here on XDA i can fix it and make it how i want it...
I just hope m$ has not gone the apple way blocking all development !
that will be a really really sad day on XDA.
Too early to say.
First few leaks should arrive some months hence.
irdawood said:
As long as there is a registry it hackable... I feel sorry for HTC or cannot customise their phones to have a unique selling point over other OEM's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you didn't paid attention to what was said in the conference.
They said, on top OEM's can customize it to add their experience to it. So HTC and other can customize it, but not to the extend of WM 6.5's case. That's because to give a consistent experience to us ( users ).
Please don't get into conclusion's without understanding what was said.
well here's a video
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-and-impressions/
yerand said:
Is winmo7 gonna be the end of winmo development here at xda? It's totally new, and its gonna be really hard to port it to existing winmo phones, and its a lot more locked down...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no dev's have even gotten their hands on this yet. How the heck would you know what's possible with is and what's not?
Well, it is new, Microsoft stated that it has more restrictions, and its pretty much a brand new os, because microsoft also stated that its built from the ground up, therefore its like porting android to a winmo phone. It has very little of its older winmo roots.
ibsa03 said:
i just hope, that the multi billion dollar companies, make everything in the phone work the way it has to, and not wait till some regular people on this forum turn the phone into a good device.. seriously, i buy a WM knowing that its crap, just cause i know that here on XDA i can fix it and make it how i want it...
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Click to collapse
I totally agree with u the reason i bought my htc fuze and sold my nokia phone was because i love how cuztomizeable wm is and even if they become like apple there is always android
But wasnt there supposed to be an OEM version of Windows Mobile 7 that could be customized by third party's such as HTC? From what I saw of the press coverage, we were just seeing the "interface" much like titanium and Touchflo.....but who knows....
semmtexx said:
no dev's have even gotten their hands on this yet. How the heck would you know what's possible with is and what's not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may well be that it is the most easy to crack ever, However, i dobt that
@Microsoft, WHY!!!???! if i wanted an consumer OS, i would of purchased an iBrick
Why not kill 6.6, make 6.9 with the winmo 7 kernal and code in some .NET support and let HTC work it's magic
Badwolve1
for a long time, the older phones (wizard old) have been able to run the newest versions (6.5.3). i think this is gonna end development on those old phones. hopefully we will get it to run on the new phones like the hd2
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5475&tag=content;col1
As HD2 owner I am dissapointed.
Again!!
But its just a spokeperson.. so we can't track the source... wich makes it a rumor..
Who cares what someone says at microsoft......they keep saying "No No No" like Amy winehouse....... HD2 can support it with EASE.
The reason why they say "No" is that microsoft has promised manufactuers that NEW OS equals Great Sales.....extacly how they did with the VISTA series !!!
What ever I say to microsoft......they like it or not....WE WILL get WP7S on out HD2 phones.....I love XDA !
One of the main reasons I got the HD2 was that I thought it would be upgradeable... I'm still hoping that it'll happen, one way or another.
I'm passing on the HD2 just beacuse of this reason I got my TP2 and when the HD2 came out I said I would just wait to see what WM7 is going to look like before I upgrade. I'm glad I waited. Guess you guys should have done the same. No one nows if porting to the HD2 will be possible yet so I wouldn't get too excited.
vardig said:
The reason why they say "No" is that microsoft has promised manufactuers that NEW OS equals Great Sales.....extacly how they did with the VISTA series !!!
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Existing hardware on desktops is upgradeable and Microsoft even gave free updates for systems purchased within the months leading up to release.
It's funny how they still leave the door slightly open with their statement.
The first device that has WP7 on it (as long as it doesn't suck) I'll be buying. My Touch Pro is due for retirement.
if you have read the article you will clearly see that the Microsoft spokesperson said that they currently dont have plans to update the HD2...key word being currently. but WP7 wont be out until around christmas....so curruntly they may not have have an update, but by release time they might. sometimes u have to read in between the lines...its something they are deffinatley working on, because if they werent, they could just give a straight answer instead of beating around the bush.
as a owner of an hd2 I would he dissapointed but I am really positive about this for simple reasons. i may be wrong about this but still ill say my opinion .
as a lot of ppl have seen on YouTube there is a video of someone from Adobe with hd2 with flash 10.1 and a (new kind of IE) which according to me is available on wp7s (according to MS a renewed browser with pinch to zoom )
BTW the home button of hd2 can somehow be reprogramed as the search button.
ok on YouTube you see the start menu but you don't see him opening the browser.
as i said I may be wrong but its my opinion.
Guerrilla Milli said:
the Microsoft spokesperson said that they currently dont have plans to update the HD2...key word being currently
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Click to collapse
No, the key word is "don't".
Yeah when someone says they currently don't have any plans it means they aren't going to do it unless it has a major effect on their business if they don't.
really?
Then that means all the 6.X device can not update to windows phone 7 severies !
Hope some oone could tans 7 to 6.X.
I am waiting
If nothing could do to refresh i will think about android or other os.........
Kloc said:
I'm passing on the HD2 just beacuse of this reason I got my TP2 and when the HD2 came out I said I would just wait to see what WM7 is going to look like before I upgrade. I'm glad I waited. Guess you guys should have done the same. No one nows if porting to the HD2 will be possible yet so I wouldn't get too excited.
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Click to collapse
Not really... I'm really annoyed that I, (probably) won't be able to get the new OS on my new 'phone, but let's not forget that the HD2 is still one kick-ass mobile, and I am still seriously impressed with it.
The only thing that annoys me is the amount of people who, on seeing my phone for the first time, say "Ooh, is that an iPhone"
mr_lindy said:
as a owner of an hd2 I would he dissapointed but I am really positive about this for simple reasons. i may be wrong about this but still ill say my opinion .
as a lot of ppl have seen on YouTube there is a video of someone from Adobe with hd2 with flash 10.1 and a (new kind of IE) which according to me is available on wp7s (according to MS a renewed browser with pinch to zoom )
BTW the home button of hd2 can somehow be reprogramed as the search button.
ok on YouTube you see the start menu but you don't see him opening the browser.
as i said I may be wrong but its my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really have no idea what you're talking about, mate.
what a fail...and right before tmo usa will launch their touch hd2...i wonder how this will impact sales. I know I won't switch fully to tmo because of this and unless there's a beta on xda developers very soon, I will not go to touch hd2. I will wait
domineus said:
what a fail...and right before tmo usa will launch their touch hd2...i wonder how this will impact sales. I know I won't switch fully to tmo because of this and unless there's a beta on xda developers very soon, I will not go to touch hd2. I will wait
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I'm definitely waiting. I was thinking about upgrading to HD2 but I'll just stick with my Touch Pro2 til the holidays.
I've wanted the HD2 from the second I put my eyes on it. It's everything I wanted in a phone minus the slide out keyboard, but the screen size made me willing to bypass that. Then I saw Windows Phone 7 and realized I wanted it on my HD2. Not being able to have it on the HD2 is surely making me reevalutate my future purchase of the tmo HD2 which is released on 3/24.
I may not get the phone at all and I really find that to be a sad thing for myself, HTC, Microsoft and TMobile USA.
Not a huge disappointment. I love the HD2 the way it is. WM 6.5 with HTC Sense does a very nice job in everything I need and use the phone for.
What I don't need is a closed OS with a lot of eyecandy (well, one can argue about that) and xbox integration. Microsoft can state "everything what ppl care about directly at the homescreen" as often as they want. But what I actually care about is efficiency on how I can use the phone. And having big colored blocks on the screen for every possible program/contact/bookmark/pictures/appointment etc. is neither very efficient, nor very effective ...
So glad I didn't wait
chalid said:
Not a huge disappointment. I love the HD2 the way it is. WM 6.5 with HTC Sense does a very nice job in everything I need and use the phone for.
What I don't need is a closed OS with a lot of eyecandy (well, one can argue about that) and xbox integration. Microsoft can state "everything what ppl care about directly at the homescreen" as often as they want. But what I actually care about is efficiency on how I can use the phone. And having big colored blocks on the screen for every possible program/contact/bookmark/pictures/appointment etc. is neither very efficient, nor very effective ...
So glad I didn't wait
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Click to collapse
Well... I should have waited for a good Android phone instead of the HD2.
I'm not at all interested in the dumb iPhone copycat OS that WP7S is. Good UI, but other than that, they've just copied Apple's bad bad policies (out of envy, I think).
I'm not going to adjust myself to an OS that doesn't multitask, doesn't let me install the stuff I want because of Marketplace censorship, doesn't let me manage my files on my own etc.
With Android, like WM6.5, I can have an OS that simply does what I want it to do. I don't have to adjust myself. That's how it should be.
Thus, the only regret I have is that I've not waited for a good Android phone, because WM6.5 is doomed and now nobody will develop anymore for it, whereas the quantity AND quality of the applications on Android has now surpassed Windows Mobile, and the OS itself is almost there.
I'm not sorry either... I change my phones every year - as flashy and useful and nice as they are, they don't last as long as $50 Nokia dumbphones did.
I use my HD2 very heavily and, apart from increased tear, this toy is much more important to me than a regular phone. As such, it absolutely needs to be the best toy around.
Also, the earlier I sell my phones, the more money I'll get.
I love it and enjoy using it for the most part, but by the end of the year I'm sure there will be devices available that I'll want more, and the love affair with HD2 will be pretty much a thing of the past.
Finally, even though I like what I see as regards to WP7, I'm not at all sure it will have the essential apps I need or that it will live up to the promise in its v.1 incarnation.
Android... I can't force myself to like either the OS or the phones carrying it. Yeah, they have multitasking and all, but I'm not buying a principle, I'm buying a phone.
vangrieg said:
Android... I can't force myself to like either the OS or the phones carrying it. Yeah, they have multitasking and all, but I'm not buying a principle, I'm buying a phone.
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Click to collapse
So Android buyers buy a principle?! Nonsense... they buy Android phones. Simple as that.
And of course, they buy them because they prefer them to other phones.
And of course, Android's features are reasons to prefer Android phones to other phones - and multitasking, for example, is one of them.
I don't like Google, I don't like Java... but if Google's OS is the only one to suit my needs, then I buy a Google phone. Because I'm not buying a principle (i.e. not Google or not Java), I am buying a phone (i.e. the phone that does what I need it to do).
I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Click to collapse
Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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Click to collapse
style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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Click to collapse
The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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Click to collapse
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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Click to collapse
That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
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HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
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Click to collapse
Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S
There appear to be a number of folk here who feel that WP7 is a step backward from WM6.5 in terms of feature set, customisability, hackability etc. What then would people propose as an alternative once WM6.5 is finally dead and buried, Android? Iphone? Symbian/ Maemo? or will you give WP7 a chance?
adesonic said:
There appear to be a number of folk here who feel that WP7 is a step backward from WM6.5 in terms of feature set, customisability, hackability etc. What then would people propose as an alternative once WM6.5 is finally dead and buried, Android? Iphone? Symbian/ Maemo? or will you give WP7 a chance?
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Click to collapse
So much fight here about it.....
Well I'm still not decided.
But I know I want to give WP7 a go.
Looks great and I would be happy to have clean, unified UI.
Limitations which are apparent on WP7 make it unusable at this point.
Android is the most complete but I just really don't like it's interface...
Probably staying with 6.5 for some time....
i personally cant be bothered to hack my my phone and look for custom ROM to flash. surely people only do this if they are not happy with their phone.if you dont like the OS. dont get it. its the reason why im not getting android, or an iphone. all phones have great features missing from them. and wp7 is only in its first phase improvement like copy and paste will come. ive only got 1 complaint, and that is that i cannot use it as a flash drive but then again, if i did that, would it slow down to a crawl??? wp7 is dead easy, i dont have time to muck around like i used to with wm6.5 on my touch diamond 2. i want it all, and i want it all now. so im sticking with wp7.
davidebanks said:
i personally cant be bothered to hack my my phone and look for custom ROM to flash. surely people only do this if they are not happy with their phone.if you dont like the OS. dont get it. its the reason why im not getting android, or an iphone. all phones have great features missing from them. and wp7 is only in its first phase improvement like copy and paste will come. ive only got 1 complaint, and that is that i cannot use it as a flash drive but then again, if i did that, would it slow down to a crawl??? wp7 is dead easy, i dont have time to muck around like i used to with wm6.5 on my touch diamond 2. i want it all, and i want it all now. so im sticking with wp7.
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Click to collapse
Same thoughts here. Was cooking my own 6.5roms to get a slim and working OS but sinceI got my HD7, I've stop cooking totally because WP7 is very fast and stable for me. Sure there are areas I'm not happy with, but at least, I have more time to live my life now since I stopped cooking roms.
I'm not here to convince anyone to go WP7, each OS has it's pros and cons, and each of us are completely different and see things and have different needs, so we go for different phones, something that works for us.
zard said:
Same thoughts here. Was cooking my own 6.5roms to get a slim and working OS but sinceI got my HD7, I've stop cooking totally because WP7 is very fast and stable for me. Sure there are areas I'm not happy with, but at least, I have more time to live my life now since I stopped cooking roms.
I'm not here to convince anyone to go WP7, each OS has it's pros and cons, and each of us are completely different and see things and have different needs, so we go for different phones, something that works for us.
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Click to collapse
LOL , you just made a lot of people angry by stopping with cooking rom's .
I think I will stick with wm 6.5 for awhile. I use it as a Mass storage device & tether with it often. I also am really used to using smart dialing which I can't understand why it wasn't added to WP7. I'll wait to a few months after WP7 lands on Sprint to see what the updates have brought & what hackers have opened. If more functionality is available on WP7 I'll get it, if not I'll go with Android when I want to upgrade because of hardware
shouldn't this be in the winmo section???
adesonic said:
There appear to be a number of folk here who feel that WP7 is a step backward from WM6.5 in terms of feature set, customisability, hackability etc. What then would people propose as an alternative once WM6.5 is finally dead and buried, Android? Iphone? Symbian/ Maemo? or will you give WP7 a chance?
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Click to collapse
I'm going to wait for the 2nd generation of WP7 phones and OS (or at least an OS update or two). I was ready to get a focus, then I realized I'd be losing some features I enjoy on my TP2 (multitasking, tethering, call manager) just to gain a newer OS.
I also want premium hardware and design which the first generation doesn't seem to offer. DVP comes close though.
i switched to android, never looked back
WhyBe said:
I'm going to wait for the 2nd generation of WP7 phones and OS (or at least an OS update or two). I was ready to get a focus, then I realized I'd be losing some features I enjoy on my TP2 (multitasking, tethering, call manager) just to gain a newer OS.
I also want premium hardware and design which the first generation doesn't seem to offer. DVP comes close though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wait, you are using a plastic phone with a plastic resistive screen and are talking about premium hardware???
There should be another choice "I would celebrate with Dom Perignon!" Please put the 6.5 out of it's misery already!
One thing is sure for me, I will not be joinging the iPhone family.
Possibly Maemo or Androd. Depends what kiind of devices will be out by then.
W7 only if there has been lots of needed updates and/or hacks/roms and such.
Any poll in a specific device forum will always have support for that device.
Poll threads should be in common forum to get a neutral response from ALL, IF the thread starter wants to know EVERYONE's opinion.
Just my 2C
nrfitchett4 said:
shouldn't this be in the winmo section???
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Life after WM6.5 to which he refers is precisely WP7. then the correct section!
A little off-topic, but correct!
I found that I was having to flash new ROMs etc to my 6.5 because the UI and features available to a standard WinMo was rubbish. I never liked the 6.5 OS much, I just liked the ability to customise and look deeper into the phone
I am now on WP7 and would never look back on 6.5.
At the moment I don't see I have much choice - Android here I come I think.
The gains in slick simple UI are insufficient in my case to outweigh the loss of functionality vs 6.5.
Many of the other advantages (gaming for example) are of no interest to me on my phone (I am not the target market).
I will stick with 6.5 until at least Phone Alarm is released for Android, then it will become viable for me. Hopefully this will be early 2011.
nrfitchett4 said:
wait, you are using a plastic phone with a plastic resistive screen and are talking about premium hardware???
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:lol: My premium phone standards were set by my SE X1, not the TP2. I would really love to see a WP7 version of the X1. Hopefully the X7 will deliver. But knowing SE, it won't be released until next November.
WhyBe said:
:lol: My premium phone standards were set by my SE X1, not the TP2. I would really love to see a WP7 version of the X1. Hopefully the X7 will deliver. But knowing SE, it won't be released until next November.
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Click to collapse
Ditto. X1 was excellent.
Currently on X2 which is actually better in many regards.
Anyway, I just hope SE will make it around Feb/March.
So it will catch upgrades which are for me necessary.
And until core apps I use on WM 6.5 will be functional/supported
I can just wait for some time....
I find it hard to believe anyone speaks of the death of WinMo in the present tense. It died for me like 2 1/2 years ago and since then the iPhone has taken over the smartphone market, Android has taken over the spot WM6.5 used to occupy and Microsoft has done practically nothing until very recently. I bought a Focus and I like it, it's a magnitude nicer and easier to use than my old Fuze with WM6.5 and while it's lacking a lot of the functionality, that will come with time and, in the meantime, I don't need to take out my reading glasses and itty bitty cramp inducing stylus to use it. The Fuze is still sitting on my desk, unused, with a noticable layer of dust on it. And there it will sit until I finally tire of looking at it and throw it away. And good riddance!
I cannot speak for anyone but for me, I have been windows mobile user ever since palm treo with windows on it. Before making switch to WP7, my device was Tilt2 and I tweaked the crap out of it putting custom roms and radio to fit my taste. Although having the capability was great but my user experience was not all that great. Something was always wrong and the hardware and software wasn't working correctly, so I was constantly tweaking and tell you the truth I got tired.
I was ready to jump ship to Android with Samsung Captivate but as soon as the WP7 was arriving I decided to wait. Boy I am glad that I did, I am happy with my samsung focus. Although it's missing some functions now but I am sure it's on it's way, the stability and the fact that it just works and I do not have to tweak anything makes my life a lot easier. Could not be more happy with OS. At least so far.
My wife has iphone and looked at android and both are not really appealing to me. Android is not all that great even if with all the customization and tweaking.
ME WANT D:
mine is a tmobile one
ME WANT ME WANT D:!!!
this is the facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/We-want-Windows-Phone-7-on-Our-Htc-Touch-Pro-2-NOW/162988837078172?v=wall
Let's start making noise!!!
atomiq said:
ME WANT D:
mine is a tmobile one
ME WANT ME WANT D:!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is good to want. one always desires what they cant have.
sh4d0w86.
The best you can get on a Touch Pro2 is a Windows 7 theme, which can be had from all over the site. One appeared on the frontpage recently, I believe. Neither Microsoft nor any other company will ever release an official update for this device to bring it to Windows 7. There are hardware requirements for the operating system that the Rhodium does not meet. The two biggest ones being the lack of a 1GHz processor and a capacitive touch screen. Without those two components, this operating system will never, ever make its way to the Rhodium platform. Your best bet will be to get the HTC 7 Pro when it makes its way into retail stores. This is basically the TP2 with the hardware requirements for WP7.
i know but they could make a Lite version for us at least, and work with what we have, i'm sure something can be done. i'm so tired of wm 6.5 and the slugishness, and crappy apps for wm, perfect example the facebook app, we dont even have an official app of pandora etc etc. when i tried the Xdandroid it felt so different, smoother and faster (even without the cancerous overclock).
atomiq said:
i know but they could make a Lite version for us at least, and work with what we have, i'm sure something can be done. i'm so tired of wm 6.5 and the slugishness, and crappy apps for wm, perfect example the facebook app, we dont even have an official app of pandora etc etc. when i tried the Xdandroid it felt so different, smoother and faster (even without the cancerous overclock).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing the point. The UI isn't too heavy for us. There are hard coded requirements in the OS. If the device doesn't meet them, it will not run. The OS will not function without a capacitive touch screen, 1 GHz processor, or a minimum of 8GB of storage. You are asking for the impossible here. The other matter is with the SD cards. WP7 bonds the SD card to the device in a sort of RAID 0 array. This means you would have to hard reset your device anytime you removed the SD card. That's why the WP7 devices hide the SD cards from the user. This isn't a matter of the company not paying attention to its customers, it simply isn't possible for them to put this OS on our devices. The only WM6 device that is even capable of running WP7 is the HD2.
It's rumored that the HTC 7Pro should be out next quarter. Maybe you should just wait for that. It's basically the TP2 with the specs needed for running WP7.
I don't really think the hardware is the problem, I think they dont want to take the time to figure out how to get wp7 (basically titatinium on steriods) to work on 6.5 devices.
UstesGreenridge said:
I don't really think the hardware is the problem
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You have any actual knowledge/facts to back that up? Just saying something doesn't make it so. I think its been pointed out on these forums that WP7 is written for a different ARM processor than older WM versions.
And the poll choices are dumb. Not wanting something that is impossible and will never happen does not make one a conformist.
hahaha, its as if developers are Santa Clause or something. Maybe if your good enough, one of them will provide us with a perfect android/winmo 6.5 and 7 SUPER port! Ya know, because of course the newest technology can be put on 2 year old phones.... its just that the the darn DEVELOPERS are tooo LAZY!!!
hopefully it is the sarcasm is noted.
Before you start saying "i want, I want"
maybe you should study your device and the software/hardware it came with. Its actually good to do these things BEFORE you buy the device. you see, i have a touchpro2 as well, and it is indeed the perfect device for my needs. and though it aint an EVO, i wouldnt define it as sluggish. but I guess you just have to know how to use your equipment if you want it to work right.
and i like how the "no, im conformist" vote is winning.
bro....maybe you should just get an iphone or something. i dont wanna see you ruin perfectly good htc devices.
Well, I mean, if you guys want to get completely rewrite WP7 for the Rhodium's processor, go for it! As has been said before, system requirements are not met and the actual OS is written for a different kind of processor. WP7 will never be more then a idea for our phones unfortunately. Rhods' processors are only around half of what WP7 needs bare minimum, and at most can be OC'd to 768 mb/ 787mb, about 3/4 of the minimum. Aside from the lack of the ram, space, hardware support, and really just any basis to go on, it should be easy to port. Not.
Hate to sound like a pessimist or a jerk, but before you guys go around talking about how you think it's not a hardware problem or that "someone could do it", maybe you should read up on the idea.
And before anyone asks, WP7 was ported to the HD2 because an HD2 and an HD7 are, from what I heard, almost identical hardware wise. Plus, the HD2 met the running hardware requirements.
UstesGreenridge said:
I don't really think the hardware is the problem, I think they dont want to take the time to figure out how to get wp7 (basically titatinium on steriods) to work on 6.5 devices.
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Click to collapse
Crap in one hand and wish in the other. See which one fills up faster.
Mods this thread should be closed...
I have a touch pro 2, and I know deep down inside that it's crappy CPU (that was outdated when the phone was new) would not be able to handle Windows Phone 7.
Anyone who says it's not the hardware on the TP2 is 100% wrong, it's all about the hardware, CPU, memory, buttons, this is why it can't run WP7.
Even if it COULD be ported, it would be slugish and would never be as smooth as a WP7 phone. WP7 is about the experiance, what is the point if your going to put it on a a device that will not give it.
Just install this theme...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=859799
It really gets as close as your going to get (look at the end of the thread, there are new updates to files) with a Touch Pro 2.
I'm one who dreams for it to work but, no one is going to re-write all that code for a old outdated disco'd phone.
If your on T-mobile, sell your TP2 and get a HD7, done...
DavidinCT said:
Mods this thread should be closed...
I have a touch pro 2, and I know deep down inside that it's crappy CPU (that was outdated when the phone was new) would not be able to handle Windows Phone 7.
Anyone who says it's not the hardware on the TP2 is 100% wrong, it's all about the hardware, CPU, memory, buttons, this is why it can't run WP7.
Even if it COULD be ported, it would be slugish and would never be as smooth as a WP7 phone. WP7 is about the experiance, what is the point if your going to put it on a a device that will not give it.
Just install this theme...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=859799
It really gets as close as your going to get (look at the end of the thread, there are new updates to files) with a Touch Pro 2.
I'm one who dreams for it to work but, no one is going to re-write all that code for a old outdated disco'd phone.
If your on T-mobile, sell your TP2 and get a HD7, done...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know quite a bit, including how to tell the mods to do their jobs. Sounds like a Napoleon complex