Develop Bugs

Multitouch - How can I use it?

Hey guys!
Since the new HTC HD2 (Leo) is about to launch:
How can I use it's multitouch capability? Preferably with C#?
As far as I know the Windows Mobile SDK supports only the good old "Mouse_Down/Up/Move" events.
Is there anything I missed? Actually there must be, since HTC is using multitouch on their Sense UI (which is just an App, like everything else, right?).
Any ideas?

Hey, come on!
No ideas? Nothing?
I thought there were so many uber-developers in this froum

To my knowledge, the HD2's multitouch was homemade by HTC. It is not natively supported by Windows Mobile/C#/etc. Unlike Samsung, I don't think HTC has ever published an SDK or made any of their APIs available to outside developers.

But as far as I know the HD2 apps (like Opera Browser or Google Maps) work with multitouch as well. Were they adapted by HTC?
It would be too bad having a multitouch phone but not beeing able to program for it

VanKurt said:
Were they adapted by HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read, yes. I haven't used an HD2 personally though
It's kinda funny (or sad) that virtually every cool feature of the HD2 (capacitive screen, multitouch, etc) was made possible by HTC and not by Microsoft. OEMs and developers shouldn't have to waste their time writing touchscreen interfaces and sensor APIs, but that's the reality of Windows Mobile for the time being. WM7 had better be a huge leap forward.

OK, so we know that there's no official way to do this.
But maybe one can somehow get to those data otherwise?
I guess we'll have to wait until the HD2 is officially released to find out...

bedoig said:
OEMs and developers shouldn't have to waste their time writing touchscreen interfaces and sensor APIs, but that's the reality of Windows Mobile for the time being. WM7 had better be a huge leap forward.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In their defense, Microsoft HAVE provided API's for WM for camera's, GPS chips and accelerometers. It's not their fault if the OEM's choose not to use them.

VanKurt said:
OK, so we know that there's no official way to do this.
But maybe one can somehow get to those data otherwise?
I guess we'll have to wait until the HD2 is officially released to find out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC's grav sensor API was soon reverse engineered, so I would expect this one to be too.

FloatingFatMan said:
In their defense, Microsoft HAVE provided API's for WM for camera's, GPS chips and accelerometers. It's not their fault if the OEM's choose not to use them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't aware that anything was available for accelerometers. Was that a recent addition? WM6.x?
FloatingFatMan said:
HTC's grav sensor API was soon reverse engineered, so I would expect this one to be too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking the same thing. The problem is still one of consistency between devices though. We need WM7 to lay a consistent groundwork for every feature that we now consider standard on a smartphone. Maybe that requires MS tightening restrictions on OEMs who choose to use Windows Mobile.

hold on am i missing something?.
you basically asking can you use multi touch on a phone such as diamond/touchpro 2?
multitouch capability depends on the actual hardware, with screens such as capacitive.
the HTC hero has a multi touch SCREEN...you can put the sense UI on resistive screens such as the GI, majic and so on.
do a google search on the difference between resistive and capacitive

Erm, no!
I asked specifically for the HTC HD2, which has a capacitive screen. So Multitouch should work very well on that device.
The only thing missing will be the API for it...
But we'll see about that (HD2 will be released any day now, I hope)

Multitouch is an HTC API...
I've got some way to working out how to use it, though I kinda need to have a device before I can do anything for real!

I know, that WM doesn't support multitouch. It'll be avaible in WM 7.

OK, now that the HD2 is out:
Did anyone play around with multitouch yet? Is there a way to use it in our own applications?

I played a little around with .Net, but havn't found any multitouch way...

Multitouch isn't part of .NET. HTC use there own library for this.
The hope is that someone will make it usable for development (like it happened with the G-Sensor)...

I thought about that HTC sends a Special-Mouse Click -> Mouse Scroll, so I can catch it, but this wasn't the case

Zoomer
There is an application called Zoomer,that enables almost all aplications that are installed to support Multitouch function on HD2,google for it.

That isn't a solution Zoomer just sets Registry entrys for using a Zoom, which just magnifiers the Window Of an App, without the ability for the App itself to draw this magnified space in high quality...

scilor said:
That isn't a solution Zoomer just sets Registry entrys for using a Zoom, which just magnifiers the Window Of an App, without the ability for the App itself to draw this magnified space in high quality...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm currently working on the alternative, that sends the window messages to zoom in/zoom out, but you then need to handle them.
I think I've found what messages it is, and need to work out what exactly is getting sent, but that hopefully shouldn't take long...

Silverlight 4 Likely as Dev Platform

Given Andy Lees quote about WP7: "It's a very sort of advanced platform that really works across PC, phone, and console," it seems likely he's talking about Silverlight 4, especially given the boost in features that it's getting for version 4. I find this to be a very suitable platform for what they're trying to do. You can't beat multi-platform & RIA support - dev once, run on all. What do you think?

Still very propretiary

chribruu said:
Still very propretiary
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Click to collapse
So what? All current phones only support native applications that are created with a proprietary SDK. The big exception is Java which is executed in a VM, but these applications cannot use the full potential of each platform, because they must aim for the lowest common denominator. So without modifications, no native application will run on all platforms.

chribruu said:
Still very propretiary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not any different than the current situation really. How many people write WM code in anything other than Visual Studio?

Basically a different set of GUI libraries on .Net 3.5.
Hope they'll make SL4 available on WM6.5, too. That way it would be a much better platform choice.

You're all right. I replied without really thinking my post trough. :/
The only thing bad with SL (and flash) is if/when they become web "standards".
Just disregard that post
Sorry for the OT.

from the little i have read/seen. it seems like this will prob be the case..

Silverlight will be one of the dev platforms, along with C++ with a XAML UI.

in this video
"Behind the Design of Windows phone 7" on youtube (i could not post the link)
1:25 - 1:29
you can see the ide for wp7.
it looks like blend. that would definitely mean xaml for ui.

pensoffsky said:
in this video
"Behind the Design of Windows phone 7" on youtube (i could not post the link)
1:25 - 1:29
you can see the ide for wp7.
it looks like blend. that would definitely mean xaml for ui.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And as I said, C++ with a XAML UI...

XNA C#, no dubt for the games.
It's available for the Zune HD, I guess it will follow on to WP7
But maby not for the UI?? any thoughts?
From XNA.com :
XNA Game Studio 3.1 Zune Extensions, to support Zune HD, adds the following functionality to the product:
The ability to target and develop for the Zune HD media player.
The addition of new Touch APIs to the XNA Framework for use on the Zune HD.
The addition of new Accelerometer APIs to the XNA Framework for use on the Zune HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I don't really believe, that they'll be using an unmanaged language for the application developement itself (other than drivers of course).
I think it would be most likely to be using C#, perhaps more in the way of how most android apps use java, e.g. it's precompiled on deployment.
What I really hope for is that, there is no longer the limitation of 32 mb per process.

What are the phones that will be compatible??

There are all sorts of threads except this one, the main topic. Will the current phones that are running the official and the aahemm...not so official WinMo 6.5 have an easy upgrade, the new OS looks stunning and I don't want anything but that OS ON MY PHONE...I don't care what it doesn't have..I JUST WANT IT....
I have an X1, running Spike's Infinite...so the big Q...Can I have it???
THANX!

Hoping Touch HD will be ok.

Touch HD2 will be lucky to have it let alone other devices. seeing as 6.5 will be hanging around, I doubt there will be any upgrades.

Not easy to say. It seems WP7s is going to have strict hardware ties. The lack of a search-button on present devices also gives a hint that it might just be available on future phones. I'm personally starting to doubt the rumours that HD2 will get an official update. Time will tell! But i'm confident we'll see it on (some) of our existing phones thanks to the great contributors here on XDA.

WVGA minimum, the multitouch probably can be worked around.

Ok....I was THIS close in buying the Touch HD2 and Touch Diamond 2..but then I heard voices in my head and bought the Xperia X1..not that I am complaining..but I want this on X1 Too....

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS:
1ghz CPU or snapdragon equivalent
WVGA capacative or alternative multitouch capable screen
512MB RAM/ROM
The whole spec list is on engadget, but it looks like the HD2 and only the HD2 + a couple of phones not yet released (Toshiba TG02) meet the minimum.

Bingo, 1Ghz Snapdragon or better, WVGA Capactive Screen be LED or AMOLED

I saw no notice that LED screens will be required. LCD should be fine, although it's a moot point since AMOLED's can be literally printed onto glass with an inkjet, it's going to kill mobile sized LCD on cost alone within 2 years. A win for contrast ratio, a loss for outdoor legibility.

Could probably work on current devices if you could turn off the animated tiles

I am using HTC 8525 with Win Mob 6.5 OS.
Can I upgrade it to Windows Phone 7?

ivk said:
I am using HTC 8525 with Win Mob 6.5 OS.
Can I upgrade it to Windows Phone 7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope........

What about Xperia X1??
Is it a completely NO-NO or a May-be???

circleofomega said:
What about Xperia X1??
Is it a completely NO-NO or a May-be???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a complete no, Minimum specs are a 1Ghz Snapdragon processor. 512MB of RAM and 512MB ROM.

walshieau said:
Its a complete no, Minimum specs are a 1Ghz Snapdragon processor. 512MB of RAM and 512MB ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shyt man, BUT is there a way we can have it modified for X1, or atleast the Zune Music Player for my X1..
plz plz DevGods...I pray thee..

circleofomega said:
Shyt man, BUT is there a way we can have it modified for X1, or atleast the Zune Music Player for my X1..
plz plz DevGods...I pray thee..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg.....
first according to the requirements. I say to you nooooo way in hell. The X1 have everything WinPhone 7 hates, low res. not enough ram, cpu etc........
second of all, until MIX10 no dev here really knows what they are working with....

my opinion on the "new windows mobile"....
i can't imagine microsoft built a complete new OS. Maybe the Core (CE 6.0) and the GUI. They abandoned some old stuff like the start menu. but the basic things are still there (status bar at the top like in winmo 6.5.x and soft buttons at the bottom)
So it's very likely (from a developers view) that things work like in winmo6.5 under the hood. you'll still have a registry to break / improve stuff, a filesystem like fat32. microsoft has never taken a step and reinvented the wheel. they always used old stuff for their systems (windows 7 still includes an old dialog from win3.11)
Since they still use the active sync protocol you'll be able to work with the registry if old registry apps don't work anymore. the bootloader (read. spl) will still be the same so people can still flash stuff and read the memory in spl mode...
yeah... theres some pretty interesting stuff comming up (changes in marketplace, zune integration, zune worldwide, gaming and future apps). but time will tell and me thinks this is some sort of hype and panic atm.
just my 2 cents

operative1 said:
my opinion on the "new windows mobile"....
i can't imagine microsoft built a complete new OS. Maybe the Core (CE 6.0) and the GUI. They abandoned some old stuff like the start menu. but the basic things are still there (status bar at the top like in winmo 6.5.x and soft buttons at the bottom)
So it's very likely (from a developers view) that things work like in winmo6.5 under the hood. you'll still have a registry to break / improve stuff, a filesystem like fat32. microsoft has never taken a step and reinvented the wheel. they always used old stuff for their systems (windows 7 still includes an old dialog from win3.11)
Since they still use the active sync protocol you'll be able to work with the registry if old registry apps don't work anymore. the bootloader (read. spl) will still be the same so people can still flash stuff and read the memory in spl mode...
yeah... theres some pretty interesting stuff comming up (changes in marketplace, zune integration, zune worldwide, gaming and future apps). but time will tell and me thinks this is some sort of hype and panic atm.
just my 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't be so sure about all that...

operative1 said:
my opinion on the "new windows mobile"....
i can't imagine microsoft built a complete new OS. Maybe the Core (CE 6.0) and the GUI. They abandoned some old stuff like the start menu. but the basic things are still there (status bar at the top like in winmo 6.5.x and soft buttons at the bottom)
So it's very likely (from a developers view) that things work like in winmo6.5 under the hood. you'll still have a registry to break / improve stuff, a filesystem like fat32. microsoft has never taken a step and reinvented the wheel. they always used old stuff for their systems (windows 7 still includes an old dialog from win3.11)
Since they still use the active sync protocol you'll be able to work with the registry if old registry apps don't work anymore. the bootloader (read. spl) will still be the same so people can still flash stuff and read the memory in spl mode...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also doubt that Microsoft started from scratch (meaning that every line of code is brand new), however if they created a new Core (CE 6.0), removed the legacy APIs and introduced a new API, it is a completely new operating system from a developer's point of view. For example: There might be a registry but that does not mean that third party applications have unlimited access to it and can change every item, because the necessary API is missing.
We will know more after MIX...

bigx86 said:
omg.....
first according to the requirements. I say to you nooooo way in hell. The X1 have everything WinPhone 7 hates, low res. not enough ram, cpu etc........
second of all, until MIX10 no dev here really knows what they are working with....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont know what you mean by low res.. X1 has WVGA.
Regardless, unless your device has snapdragon forget all hopes of an official OR hacked upgrade. It cannot be ported to your device. It is two versions of the wince kernel ahead. Complete new drivers are needed. Without the OEM releasing an update to your device or device with similar hardware it will not be ported to your device. I have heard rumors that touch hd2 will get an update but that remains to be seen.

Official Windows Phone 7 Series Pics and Screens (Showcases OS and UI)!!!

I have tons pics of the Windows Phone (Mobile) 7 series for those who have been living under a rock for the last couple of days. The pictures exhibit the core of the OS and the UI.
Click on Each Individual Pic to Zoom in
Lock & Home Screen
Web Browser
Zune Music & Video
Pictures Hub
People Hub
Xbox Live Hub
About Windows Phone 7​
​Microsoft's latest mobile OS behaves completely different from previous iterations which may be a major selling point or a deal breaker. The UI is elegant, simplistic, and fully animated, no other OS is close in comparison. It's innovation at it's finest. Its pretty obvious what type of user MS was aiming towards just by glancing at the screen shots, and you can't blame them. That was how iPhone gained such huge ground.
​WinPho 7's interface, codenamed "Metro", is visually similar to the Zune HD. Unlike previous edition of windows mobile, Windows Phone 7 isn't powered by Windows CE kernel, but it is rather based on said embedded OS. It seems like MS main focus is push notification, social networking and finally integrating their other services like Zune Marketplace and Xbox Live.
Ballmer didn't announce much about the hardware requirements, but he did say that there was a capacitive screen requirement. So gone are the days of using your stylus in Excel, Office, or Bubble Breaker.
What make windows Phone 7 Series stand out is the attention to detail, animations, and overall look of the OS. The keyboard is completely overhauled, it's bigger and translucent. The Lock screen is carried over from the Zune HD, it only displays important notifications like new messages, missed calls, and updated status. Unfortunately it doesn't display appointments. The home screen consists of animated tiles or hubs that serve as links to other features of the OS. The home screen is sorta reminiscent of Androids, by allowing you to pin any App, Contact, Picture, Bookmark, etc.
My Opinions​​It's pretty clear that I like the revisions or I would've denounced it in this post. The animations are uncanny and The overall experience may make it easy to use, but this is just speculation. I own an Xbox 360 and have Live for Windows on my PC so achievements are pretty big to me and it's nice to see MS being the first to integrate such a feature into a mobile device.
​As happy as I am, there are still things that have me upset. The home screen just looks bland and flat, couldn't they have added some kind 3D element and why is there no background image? The apps menu only shows one row of apps in alphabetical order, which may make it easier to find app, but may get tedious once your App collection grows. I feel they should have used the same view they have for the contacts in the Apps menu, it would've been leagues better than just one row of apps.
My Question and Conclusion ​​Like a lot of you forum goers, I'm pretty stuck on the fence on this one. Still many things I want to know such as:
How does the OS handle Multitasking?
What level of Customization is available?
Will OEMS be allowed to differentiate themselves from each other?
What about SDK and 3rd party software?
Details on Compatibility with Phones like the HTC HD2, Toshiba TG02 & K01 or other devices releasing in 2010.
What are the Hardware requirements.
What's the fate of Winmo 6.5?
Is there compatibility with Legacy Apps and vice versa?
More info on MS's plan for Cloud computing
How far along are you with flash support?
The name is Windows Phone Series, does that mean there will be other versions of the OS, Maybe a Lite Version for Older Phones?
What about Cabs & File Browsing?
​MS's latest revision may look more treacherous than adventurous to "Hardcore" users and fans of Winmo. Love or hate it, this mobile OS isn't finish, there's much to be revealed at MIX10 and we won't see a release date anytime soon
Stay tuned, in a couple days I will have animated gifs that demonstrates the UI animations.

Whatever it is, I like it a lot. And I would love to have it on my X1....I hope some DevGods try to make it for my X1...
ANd BTW, Thanx for the pix!

Your Welcome. As far as compatibility goes for older Qualcomm 72xx chipset devices like your X1 or the Touch HD, I'm not to sure whether you will get a update. I know I won't, because I have a Palm Treo Pro and Palm just left me dry (No Updates For even Winmo 6.5). MS titled this OS Windows Phone 7 Series. There may be other versions such as a business version or a lite version for users of older devices.

i don't like it

musungus77 said:
i don't like it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't at first, but it's growing on me...

circleofomega said:
Whatever it is, I like it a lot. And I would love to have it on my X1....I hope some DevGods try to make it for my X1...
ANd BTW, Thanx for the pix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
musungus77 said:
i don't like it
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Click to collapse
I love the menus of the OS and the way it operates. I just don't like the home screen.

Wow...does no one find these pics interesting? I'm the first to post them to this forum.

krjcook said:
Your Welcome. As far as compatibility goes for older Qualcomm 72xx chipset devices like your X1 or the Touch HD, I'm not to sure whether you will get a update. I know I won't, because I have a Palm Treo Pro and Palm just left me dry (No Updates For even Winmo 6.5). MS titled this OS Windows Phone 7 Series. There may be other versions such as a business version or a lite version for users of older devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true; Microsoft could have an unannounced "Windows Phone Professional Series." That would probably be where everyone here would go. Or maybe that's what the current Windows Mobile Professional will be (probably and hopefully not).

Windows Phone 7 Series = Zune HD + Phone... (what? i heared a similar story before... oh yes.. it is called "iPhone OS", an ipod.. with phone... )
I like the UI, yes.. but i will miss the things that windows mobile had.. like a file explorer (the best file explorer for mobile devices i must say), full customizacion thanks to this community...
All would be better if they just could add special effects to their current UI... (windows mobile with animations and that stuff)...
just saying...

Isaygarcia said:
Windows Phone 7 Series = Zune HD + Phone... (what? i heared a similar story before... oh yes.. it is called "iPhone OS", an ipod.. with phone... )
I like the UI, yes.. but i will miss the things that windows mobile had.. like a file explorer (the best file explorer for mobile devices i must say), full customizacion thanks to this community...
All would be better if they just could add special effects to their current UI... (windows mobile with animations and that stuff)...
just saying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MMM... The Ipod Touch was more application oriented (At least it became app oriented after the iphone and the installer.app became popular) Whilst the Zune HD is more MultiMedia Oriented. Only reason ipods ever win is their app base... my friend has 3 fart apps, a light saber app, and bump... not really...a phone

krjcook said:
Your Welcome. As far as compatibility goes for older Qualcomm 72xx chipset devices like your X1 or the Touch HD, I'm not to sure whether you will get a update. I know I won't, because I have a Palm Treo Pro and Palm just left me dry (No Updates For even Winmo 6.5). MS titled this OS Windows Phone 7 Series. There may be other versions such as a business version or a lite version for users of older devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOw thats wht I am talking about.."The Lite Version"...thst wht I would LOVE to have on X1..but again, its a far fetched dream..

Isaygarcia said:
Windows Phone 7 Series = Zune HD + Phone... (what? i heared a similar story before... oh yes.. it is called "iPhone OS", an ipod.. with phone... )
I like the UI, yes.. but i will miss the things that windows mobile had.. like a file explorer (the best file explorer for mobile devices i must say), full customizacion thanks to this community...
All would be better if they just could add special effects to their current UI... (windows mobile with animations and that stuff)...
just saying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't wait too see what the talented people in this forum can do for this platform. They done leagues to enhance and customize Winmo 6.5

I love what I've seen and thanks for the pictures. Here's why I love it. On my 8525 running 6.5.3 I currently install these 3rd party programs: Resco Explorer, Resco Photos, Coreplayer, Icontact, Facebook, Thumbcal, SPB Mobile Shell 3.5, JZ Browser (love it!), Opera Mini 5, Schaps Advanced Configuration, Arcsoft MMS Messenger and Google Maps. That's just the ones I have to put in to feel the phone is great(which it is for when it was made). With the 7 Series I don't think I'd need any of these programs so how much of an improvement has MS made (gigantic!). Not to mention how interactve the hubs are and how easy these programs they have work together. So far so good. I can't wait to get more info at MIX.

I must say that before I got my HTC Touch Pro 2 I knew nothing about Windows Mobile. But after visiting this forum and trying a few ROMs I must admit that Windows Mobile is awesome! So, I'm waiting to see what's going to happen with Windows Phone 7 (I really hope this is not the official name of the OS). However, MS has a habit of trying to compete with Apple and I just wish they would forget about Apple and build a rock solid OS.

The first thing I read about WP7 is that it needs a Massive CPU (1ghz). So I thought Oh my god here whe go again, MS needs to rely on high hardware specs again to get the thing going, wich could mean another FAIL programming.
Afther watchting the demo I must say that I like the interface verry much, and I can only hope it will realy be as fast as they want you to believe it is.
I also think it is a good thing that they started from scratch because most (not all) of the old apps are useless anyway. The biggest problem being the wide variaty of phone hardware wich makes in imposible to deliver dedicated-always working-allways equally fast- software. (a problem that the Iphone doesn't have, everything you download is fast, and works) and I only dream that my HTC HD would work that well, but it just doesn't (even with the great custom roms you guys make, the CPU doesn't cut it)
The only thing that I want from a phone is full PC compatibility and SPEED. Thats what windows phone looks like to going to offer, but I also like to be able to put on my phone what I want, and that is a big question mark with this new OS.

addicus said:
I love what I've seen and thanks for the pictures. Here's why I love it. On my 8525 running 6.5.3 I currently install these 3rd party programs: Resco Explorer, Resco Photos, Coreplayer, Icontact, Facebook, Thumbcal, SPB Mobile Shell 3.5, JZ Browser (love it!), Opera Mini 5, Schaps Advanced Configuration, Arcsoft MMS Messenger and Google Maps. That's just the ones I have to put in to feel the phone is great(which it is for when it was made). With the 7 Series I don't think I'd need any of these programs so how much of an improvement has MS made (gigantic!). Not to mention how interactve the hubs are and how easy these programs they have work together. So far so good. I can't wait to get more info at MIX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I can't wait to see what Features and other hidden Details MS has in store @ MIX10

circleofomega said:
NOw thats wht I am talking about.."The Lite Version"...thst wht I would LOVE to have on X1..but again, its a far fetched dream..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the X1 isn't a great device when compared to the Touch Pro 2. I think Windows Phone 7's requirements don't feature older devices running the Qualcomm 72xx chips.

krjcook said:
Windows Phone 7 isn't powered by Windows CE kernel
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Click to collapse
Really?

Shasarak said:
Really?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Windows Phone 7 doesn't isn't powered by Windows CE 6.0. But like the Zune HD it's based on CE 6

krjcook said:
Yes, Windows Phone 7 doesn't isn't powered by Windows CE 6.0. But like the Zune HD it's based on CE 6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummmm no. I'm not sure what your definition of "powered by" is but in my world "based on" is the same thing (especially in this case).
Windows CE is a modular, embedded operating system that can be customized with tons of various components and then added onto if the developer chooses. In this case, the end developer is Microsoft and they're adding on their own UI, .net, silverlight, etc (not sure how similar the included .net/silverlight in CE6R3 is to WP7).
So basically Microsoft picks and chooses what parts of CE they want to use as a starting point and then adds on. CE is not a "complete" OS in itself really. It is designed exactly for this sort of purpose.
"Powered by", "based on", whatever you want to call it but CE is most certainly the kernel and core of Zune (classic and HD), Windows Phone, etc. It's most likely CE6R3 but could be 6R2 or even CE7.

Quake III and OpenGL

Hey there!
I'm wondering if OpenGL games, like Quake III, can be ported just like they did for Android with Kwaak3.
Does WinPho7 support OpenGL ES in addition to DX9c?
Best Regards Mr.Sir (Gustaf)

I googled around and it appears that XNA will be the only choice besides silverlight for app/game development. So if you can somehow port an OpenGL came to XNA, then yes.

Mr.Sir said:
Hey there!
I'm wondering if OpenGL games, like Quake III, can be ported just like they did for Android with Kwaak3.
Does WinPho7 support OpenGL ES in addition to DX9c?
Best Regards Mr.Sir (Gustaf)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. It's only what you will find in XNA. There are several samples people have posted for porting on xbox 360; same code will work on the phone with VERY little changes.

So, seriously guys, no native support? I mean, when i was working at NDrive they had everything written in C++ with interfaces for each device. I doubt that any sane company will rewrite its software completly just to compete in a niche...
Even in .NET CF you COULD do some PInvokes which kinda allowed you to attempt to run a managed version of OpenGL (.NET sucked and still sucks for serious game development, obviously) which was slow as hell, but at least it was there.
So please, native support!

ei05035 said:
.NET sucked and still sucks for serious game development, obviously) which was slow as hell, but at least it was there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why it is entitled with XNA

Yup Buddy but its gud because you have to code only one time and then you can able to convert it for using on other platforms..

And by several platforms you say M$ based ones. I mean, most companies (i can give you the example of NDrive as I was there for a while) would rather code in C++ and create interfaces for specific platforms. No native code support kills it. I don't see companies renaming extensions to .cs, enabling unsafe code (pointers, etc) and giving it a good dose of whisfull thinking.
Oh and when I meant that XNA sucked for serious gaming i meant really. AAA games don't rely on that. They rely on GPU manufacters SDKs and on the good ol' DirectX SDK. This is if they don't have some housemade engine (like Crytek) similar to Shiva3D or Unity (but custom tailored).
I mean, seriously. In .NET CF 3.5, give it a go, try to natively rotate an image and resize it without manually processing the bitmap information to do so (and at the expense of CPU usage). I had to rely on DxSprites and OpenGL when I needed.
XNA is, as it was already mentioned, game-wise, a game-loop oriented tool with a few PInvokes to DirectX...

ei05035 said:
And by several platforms you say M$ based ones. I mean, most companies (i can give you the example of NDrive as I was there for a while) would rather code in C++ and create interfaces for specific platforms. No native code support kills it. I don't see companies renaming extensions to .cs, enabling unsafe code (pointers, etc) and giving it a good dose of whisfull thinking.
Oh and when I meant that XNA sucked for serious gaming i meant really. AAA games don't rely on that. They rely on GPU manufacters SDKs and on the good ol' DirectX SDK. This is if they don't have some housemade engine (like Crytek) similar to Shiva3D or Unity (but custom tailored).
I mean, seriously. In .NET CF 3.5, give it a go, try to natively rotate an image and resize it without manually processing the bitmap information to do so (and at the expense of CPU usage). I had to rely on DxSprites and OpenGL when I needed.
XNA is, as it was already mentioned, game-wise, a game-loop oriented tool with a few PInvokes to DirectX...
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Click to collapse
If you are so gung-ho, you could write wrappers in C++, compile the DLL and pinvoke your calls.

tyrannus said:
If you are so gung-ho, you could write wrappers in C++, compile the DLL and pinvoke your calls.
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Exactly! Honestly for me it is the way to go. It's not that i don't like C# or .NET, quite the contrary. I'm just sorry that they lack the portability some projects require. And for me, WP7 not having native code support is a real buzz kill. What do you think?

It does have native code support but you need Microsoft's permission to get the SDK. I'm pretty sure game companies will have it if they want to make use of the GPU as much as possible.