Develop Bugs

it is based on wince (ce 6.0)

check out this fancy chart
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-faces-off-against-its-windows-mobile-past/

They also said that 6.5 doesn't support capacitive screens (what kind of screen does the HD2 ship with and what OS does it ship with?)

They have no clue. You should be careful what you believe.

RustyGrom said:
They also said that 6.5 doesn't support capacitive screens (what kind of screen does the HD2 ship with and what OS does it ship with?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I've said numerous times, WM doesn't care what technology the screen is using, it just requires some data about a mouse event on the screen somewhere. Multitouch is what WM6.5.X can't natively handle, and that's what HTC have hacked in.

Okay, I think the information that WP7 is based on a WinCE 6.0 kernel might be correct.
I don't see an alternative. But in many ways this is good for us. Yes, they have changed some things for sure. But tell me, in which areas has the old kernel proven to be bad/old/not usable? It will be more like an upgrade like from Win XP Kernel to Vista and I think, with some kind of compatibility mode and drawbacks in terms of visual style, many old applications should be working.
Greetings from Germany,
Sebastian

Crash1983 said:
Okay, I think the information that WP7 is based on a WinCE 6.0 kernel might be correct.
I don't see an alternative. But in many ways this is good for us. Yes, they have changed some things for sure. But tell me, in which areas has the old kernel proven to be bad/old/not usable? It will be more like an upgrade like from Win XP Kernel to Vista and I think, with some kind of compatibility mode and drawbacks in terms of visual style, many old applications should be working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between WinCE 5 and 6 is more like the difference between Windows 95 and XP. All applications digging too deep into the system (like all this hooking/interprocess stuff) will not be possible anymore and needs to be adapted to CE 6. All the application (GUI) level stuff didn't change from CE 5 to CE 6. If WP7 is based on CE 6 and WM 6.7 (if it really happens?) is also based on CE 6 this would be AWESOME. Same kernel base, so it's probably gonna be easier to port things between them. I also still don't believe that all WM 5/6/6.5 apps aren't completely working anymore on WP7. Some of them probably need some "fine tuning" to adapt to the new OS but that's also been the case when they switched from PPC 2003 to WM 5.

Official Windows Phone 7 Series Pics and Screens (Showcases OS and UI)!!!

I have tons pics of the Windows Phone (Mobile) 7 series for those who have been living under a rock for the last couple of days. The pictures exhibit the core of the OS and the UI.
Click on Each Individual Pic to Zoom in
Lock & Home Screen
Web Browser
Zune Music & Video
Pictures Hub
People Hub
Xbox Live Hub
About Windows Phone 7​
​Microsoft's latest mobile OS behaves completely different from previous iterations which may be a major selling point or a deal breaker. The UI is elegant, simplistic, and fully animated, no other OS is close in comparison. It's innovation at it's finest. Its pretty obvious what type of user MS was aiming towards just by glancing at the screen shots, and you can't blame them. That was how iPhone gained such huge ground.
​WinPho 7's interface, codenamed "Metro", is visually similar to the Zune HD. Unlike previous edition of windows mobile, Windows Phone 7 isn't powered by Windows CE kernel, but it is rather based on said embedded OS. It seems like MS main focus is push notification, social networking and finally integrating their other services like Zune Marketplace and Xbox Live.
Ballmer didn't announce much about the hardware requirements, but he did say that there was a capacitive screen requirement. So gone are the days of using your stylus in Excel, Office, or Bubble Breaker.
What make windows Phone 7 Series stand out is the attention to detail, animations, and overall look of the OS. The keyboard is completely overhauled, it's bigger and translucent. The Lock screen is carried over from the Zune HD, it only displays important notifications like new messages, missed calls, and updated status. Unfortunately it doesn't display appointments. The home screen consists of animated tiles or hubs that serve as links to other features of the OS. The home screen is sorta reminiscent of Androids, by allowing you to pin any App, Contact, Picture, Bookmark, etc.
My Opinions​​It's pretty clear that I like the revisions or I would've denounced it in this post. The animations are uncanny and The overall experience may make it easy to use, but this is just speculation. I own an Xbox 360 and have Live for Windows on my PC so achievements are pretty big to me and it's nice to see MS being the first to integrate such a feature into a mobile device.
​As happy as I am, there are still things that have me upset. The home screen just looks bland and flat, couldn't they have added some kind 3D element and why is there no background image? The apps menu only shows one row of apps in alphabetical order, which may make it easier to find app, but may get tedious once your App collection grows. I feel they should have used the same view they have for the contacts in the Apps menu, it would've been leagues better than just one row of apps.
My Question and Conclusion ​​Like a lot of you forum goers, I'm pretty stuck on the fence on this one. Still many things I want to know such as:
How does the OS handle Multitasking?
What level of Customization is available?
Will OEMS be allowed to differentiate themselves from each other?
What about SDK and 3rd party software?
Details on Compatibility with Phones like the HTC HD2, Toshiba TG02 & K01 or other devices releasing in 2010.
What are the Hardware requirements.
What's the fate of Winmo 6.5?
Is there compatibility with Legacy Apps and vice versa?
More info on MS's plan for Cloud computing
How far along are you with flash support?
The name is Windows Phone Series, does that mean there will be other versions of the OS, Maybe a Lite Version for Older Phones?
What about Cabs & File Browsing?
​MS's latest revision may look more treacherous than adventurous to "Hardcore" users and fans of Winmo. Love or hate it, this mobile OS isn't finish, there's much to be revealed at MIX10 and we won't see a release date anytime soon
Stay tuned, in a couple days I will have animated gifs that demonstrates the UI animations.

Whatever it is, I like it a lot. And I would love to have it on my X1....I hope some DevGods try to make it for my X1...
ANd BTW, Thanx for the pix!

Your Welcome. As far as compatibility goes for older Qualcomm 72xx chipset devices like your X1 or the Touch HD, I'm not to sure whether you will get a update. I know I won't, because I have a Palm Treo Pro and Palm just left me dry (No Updates For even Winmo 6.5). MS titled this OS Windows Phone 7 Series. There may be other versions such as a business version or a lite version for users of older devices.

i don't like it

musungus77 said:
i don't like it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't at first, but it's growing on me...

circleofomega said:
Whatever it is, I like it a lot. And I would love to have it on my X1....I hope some DevGods try to make it for my X1...
ANd BTW, Thanx for the pix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
musungus77 said:
i don't like it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love the menus of the OS and the way it operates. I just don't like the home screen.

Wow...does no one find these pics interesting? I'm the first to post them to this forum.

krjcook said:
Your Welcome. As far as compatibility goes for older Qualcomm 72xx chipset devices like your X1 or the Touch HD, I'm not to sure whether you will get a update. I know I won't, because I have a Palm Treo Pro and Palm just left me dry (No Updates For even Winmo 6.5). MS titled this OS Windows Phone 7 Series. There may be other versions such as a business version or a lite version for users of older devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true; Microsoft could have an unannounced "Windows Phone Professional Series." That would probably be where everyone here would go. Or maybe that's what the current Windows Mobile Professional will be (probably and hopefully not).

Windows Phone 7 Series = Zune HD + Phone... (what? i heared a similar story before... oh yes.. it is called "iPhone OS", an ipod.. with phone... )
I like the UI, yes.. but i will miss the things that windows mobile had.. like a file explorer (the best file explorer for mobile devices i must say), full customizacion thanks to this community...
All would be better if they just could add special effects to their current UI... (windows mobile with animations and that stuff)...
just saying...

Isaygarcia said:
Windows Phone 7 Series = Zune HD + Phone... (what? i heared a similar story before... oh yes.. it is called "iPhone OS", an ipod.. with phone... )
I like the UI, yes.. but i will miss the things that windows mobile had.. like a file explorer (the best file explorer for mobile devices i must say), full customizacion thanks to this community...
All would be better if they just could add special effects to their current UI... (windows mobile with animations and that stuff)...
just saying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MMM... The Ipod Touch was more application oriented (At least it became app oriented after the iphone and the installer.app became popular) Whilst the Zune HD is more MultiMedia Oriented. Only reason ipods ever win is their app base... my friend has 3 fart apps, a light saber app, and bump... not really...a phone

krjcook said:
Your Welcome. As far as compatibility goes for older Qualcomm 72xx chipset devices like your X1 or the Touch HD, I'm not to sure whether you will get a update. I know I won't, because I have a Palm Treo Pro and Palm just left me dry (No Updates For even Winmo 6.5). MS titled this OS Windows Phone 7 Series. There may be other versions such as a business version or a lite version for users of older devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOw thats wht I am talking about.."The Lite Version"...thst wht I would LOVE to have on X1..but again, its a far fetched dream..

Isaygarcia said:
Windows Phone 7 Series = Zune HD + Phone... (what? i heared a similar story before... oh yes.. it is called "iPhone OS", an ipod.. with phone... )
I like the UI, yes.. but i will miss the things that windows mobile had.. like a file explorer (the best file explorer for mobile devices i must say), full customizacion thanks to this community...
All would be better if they just could add special effects to their current UI... (windows mobile with animations and that stuff)...
just saying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't wait too see what the talented people in this forum can do for this platform. They done leagues to enhance and customize Winmo 6.5

I love what I've seen and thanks for the pictures. Here's why I love it. On my 8525 running 6.5.3 I currently install these 3rd party programs: Resco Explorer, Resco Photos, Coreplayer, Icontact, Facebook, Thumbcal, SPB Mobile Shell 3.5, JZ Browser (love it!), Opera Mini 5, Schaps Advanced Configuration, Arcsoft MMS Messenger and Google Maps. That's just the ones I have to put in to feel the phone is great(which it is for when it was made). With the 7 Series I don't think I'd need any of these programs so how much of an improvement has MS made (gigantic!). Not to mention how interactve the hubs are and how easy these programs they have work together. So far so good. I can't wait to get more info at MIX.

I must say that before I got my HTC Touch Pro 2 I knew nothing about Windows Mobile. But after visiting this forum and trying a few ROMs I must admit that Windows Mobile is awesome! So, I'm waiting to see what's going to happen with Windows Phone 7 (I really hope this is not the official name of the OS). However, MS has a habit of trying to compete with Apple and I just wish they would forget about Apple and build a rock solid OS.

The first thing I read about WP7 is that it needs a Massive CPU (1ghz). So I thought Oh my god here whe go again, MS needs to rely on high hardware specs again to get the thing going, wich could mean another FAIL programming.
Afther watchting the demo I must say that I like the interface verry much, and I can only hope it will realy be as fast as they want you to believe it is.
I also think it is a good thing that they started from scratch because most (not all) of the old apps are useless anyway. The biggest problem being the wide variaty of phone hardware wich makes in imposible to deliver dedicated-always working-allways equally fast- software. (a problem that the Iphone doesn't have, everything you download is fast, and works) and I only dream that my HTC HD would work that well, but it just doesn't (even with the great custom roms you guys make, the CPU doesn't cut it)
The only thing that I want from a phone is full PC compatibility and SPEED. Thats what windows phone looks like to going to offer, but I also like to be able to put on my phone what I want, and that is a big question mark with this new OS.

addicus said:
I love what I've seen and thanks for the pictures. Here's why I love it. On my 8525 running 6.5.3 I currently install these 3rd party programs: Resco Explorer, Resco Photos, Coreplayer, Icontact, Facebook, Thumbcal, SPB Mobile Shell 3.5, JZ Browser (love it!), Opera Mini 5, Schaps Advanced Configuration, Arcsoft MMS Messenger and Google Maps. That's just the ones I have to put in to feel the phone is great(which it is for when it was made). With the 7 Series I don't think I'd need any of these programs so how much of an improvement has MS made (gigantic!). Not to mention how interactve the hubs are and how easy these programs they have work together. So far so good. I can't wait to get more info at MIX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I can't wait to see what Features and other hidden Details MS has in store @ MIX10

circleofomega said:
NOw thats wht I am talking about.."The Lite Version"...thst wht I would LOVE to have on X1..but again, its a far fetched dream..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the X1 isn't a great device when compared to the Touch Pro 2. I think Windows Phone 7's requirements don't feature older devices running the Qualcomm 72xx chips.

krjcook said:
Windows Phone 7 isn't powered by Windows CE kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?

Shasarak said:
Really?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Windows Phone 7 doesn't isn't powered by Windows CE 6.0. But like the Zune HD it's based on CE 6

krjcook said:
Yes, Windows Phone 7 doesn't isn't powered by Windows CE 6.0. But like the Zune HD it's based on CE 6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummmm no. I'm not sure what your definition of "powered by" is but in my world "based on" is the same thing (especially in this case).
Windows CE is a modular, embedded operating system that can be customized with tons of various components and then added onto if the developer chooses. In this case, the end developer is Microsoft and they're adding on their own UI, .net, silverlight, etc (not sure how similar the included .net/silverlight in CE6R3 is to WP7).
So basically Microsoft picks and chooses what parts of CE they want to use as a starting point and then adds on. CE is not a "complete" OS in itself really. It is designed exactly for this sort of purpose.
"Powered by", "based on", whatever you want to call it but CE is most certainly the kernel and core of Zune (classic and HD), Windows Phone, etc. It's most likely CE6R3 but could be 6R2 or even CE7.

Winmo 6.5.3 or WP7

Which one would you choose?
(Assuming that WP7 won't get major changes to its UI itself and that the prototype is the final version of WP7)

I voted for WP7 but the question is - when should I choose? Right now there's no Windows Phone 7. All we've seen is an unfinished UI prototype. I wouldn't switch my 6.5 for that. WP7 shows a lot of promise but how it will materialize and when isn't at all clear.

vangrieg said:
I voted for WP7 but the question is - when should I choose? Right now there's no Windows Phone 7. All we've seen is an unfinished UI prototype. I wouldn't switch my 6.5 for that. WP7 shows a lot of promise but how it will materialize and when isn't at all clear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point here...

I voted WP7.
Why?
1. I dont like iPhone, because of all its restriction.
2. I am using WM6.1 (HTC Kaiser) and want to update/upgrade
3. I am about to move to Android, but I cannot get Nexus one here in my country.
However after I saw WP7, I think that would be my right choice to replace my HTC Kaiser.
I have been waiting for several years already and waiting another 1 year is fine with me
In the meantime I can still play around with Android on it.

gogol said:
1. I dont like iPhone, because of all its restriction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you realize that WP7 is just as restricted...

freyberry said:
I hope you realize that WP7 is just as restricted...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hard to realize something that hasn't been announced.

It will be Android on Desire for me.. Have some experience with Android on the Hero which my brother has. Definitely much better than the Windows 6.5 on my TD2 and when Microsoft will release 7, Android will probably have some kind of new version too.. (a 2.5 or 3.0 next year maybe?)

You again?
And you sir, you got another super secret friend told you about that?
Of course there will be limitation or some kind of restriction on WP7, I knew that. But what exactly? I don't know.
freyberry said:
I hope you realize that WP7 is just as restricted...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Well I agree that WM7 is a long way off. Might as enjoy WM6.5.x now while its here. The new GUI of the later builds is enough to keep you busy for a while. There are lots of new features and extras all the time. It is kind of ironic but the more I look at WM7 the more I see a generic OS like the motorolas use or something on a freebie cellphone.
WM6.5.x still has compatibility to thousands of apps and has a slew of homescreens to choose from to keep your appetite at bay for a while. I think WM7 looks cool... but like previously stated, it is too far to tell how it will actually play out. Are the videos we've seen just the homescreen, where the actual OS we're used to is underneath? Where is the file manager, start menu, etc. These are very important questions before waiting A YEAR to use it.
I would recommend just getting whatever you want now and by the time you're ready for a new one... WP7 will be out and you'll have a better understanding of how it works. I'd just hate to see you wait a year and the OS be a dud.

gogol said:
You again?
And you sir, you got another super secret friend told you about that?
Of course there will be limitation or some kind of restriction on WP7, I knew that. But what exactly? I don't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks pretty much confirmed to me, that WP7 will be restricted in EXACTLY the same ways as iPhone OS is.
(btw. they have the same kind of censorship in their Marketplace as Apple)
EVERYTHING announced so far goes perfectly in line with those rumors, so why should the rest of them be incorrect?
· WP7 will be announced at MWC, and there will be a demo, but this will be just the UX
· MIX will have specific developement focus sessions on WP7
· WP7 supports both Sliverlight (out of browser) and XNA
· Silverlight is version 3.0, with elements of 4.0 plus mobile specific features such as sensors etc
· XNA apps can be developed using XNA GameStudio 3.1
· SL apps developed using Expression Blend 3.x and VS2010
· MS will release a mobile version of VS / Expression which will be free, and VS2010 / Expression Pro will have a free add-on
· WP7 will have an equivalent of .NET CF embedded into SL, but no SQL.
· WP7 will have isolated storage which is accessible using LINQ
· The UX of WP7 is based upon a theme called “METRO” and is similar to Zune HD, but with a completely new “Start” screen.
· No multi-tasking (applications will pause when in the background, however they will support notifications using the MS Push Notifications environment)
· No .NET CF backwards compatibility, however a proportion of the data and business logic in .NET CF could be ported
· MS were confident to have devices ready for Sep 2010
· No MS manufactured device, however much tighter control of manufacturing process, so as an example each device has a 3D processing chipset, and MS provide all of the device drivers. So no platform builder. This enables OTA updates and simplified model for ODM’s
· Marketplace will support buy and try before you buy, as well as an API
· ODM / OEM will not be able to modify the “Start” screen, so no more HTC Sense / TouchFlo etc.
· MS are actually ahead of schedule which will surprise the analysts / journalists
· Browsing experience is currently faster / better than iPhone 3G, and they are aiming towards 3GS.
· Browser is based upon desktop IE7 codebase, but with some IE8 functionality
· No in browser Flash or SL
· WP7 has full integration with XBOX Live, and ability to purchase games
· WP7 will use the Zune software for music, videos, photos sync
· WP7 only supports app installation through service based delivery i.e. marketplace, so no side-loading
· MS will provide a hosted push notifications environment
That also answers the thread question: I hate restrictions, thus I'm going Android

I agree. WP7 is stupid OS for stupid phones and it is targeted at stupid (iPhone) consumers. Like somebody said before, it's not an OS, it's just Facebook on steroids. Android or Maemo are for us non-teenagers, power users etc.

For starter, you can have some customization WP7 Start Screen, while iPhone cant.
See? That's not EXACTLY like iPhone.
Oh well, let see after MIX if I still like WP7.
seed_al said:
Looks pretty much confirmed to me, that WP7 will be restricted in EXACTLY the same ways as iPhone OS is.
(btw. they have the same kind of censorship in their Marketplace as Apple)
EVERYTHING announced so far goes perfectly in line with those rumors, so why should the rest of them be incorrect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gogol said:
For starter, you can have some customization WP7 Start Screen, while iPhone cant.
See? That's not EXACTLY like iPhone.
Oh well, let see after MIX if I still like WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what's the difference between the giant squares of wm7 and iphone mini squares?

glyndal said:
what's the difference between the giant squares of wm7 and iphone mini squares?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You pick and choose which 'giant squares' you get on your start screen on WP7 and they're actively updating ("Live Tiles") unlike the iPhone's static icons (73* and sunny!).

RustyGrom said:
You pick and choose which 'giant squares' you get on your start screen on WP7 and they're actively updating ("Live Tiles") unlike the iPhone's static icons (73* and sunny!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that's not much of a difference. You can choose which "mini squares" you want on your start screen on iPhone OS. That leaves us with only one advantage for WP7 - updating of live tiles. So, WP7 sounds like a newer iPhone OS version, nothing more. In fact, iPhone OS will (probably) support multitasking in the next version.

pilgrim011 said:
Well, that's not much of a difference. You can choose which "mini squares" you want on your start screen on iPhone OS. That leaves us with only one advantage for WP7 - updating of live tiles. So, WP7 sounds like a newer iPhone OS version, nothing more. In fact, iPhone OS will (probably) support multitasking in the next version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What kinda of multi tasking do you need? According to what I've read and seen. If you have an app open and then open another. The first one will be suspended but if you hit the back button on the phone it will take you right back to where you left off on the previous app. That pretty much like multitasking. It will still remember what you were doing on the app when you change. And then items that require to be active in the background will beable to with approval. I don't need my calculator active in the background when I switch apps. That's just one more thing I need to close all the time with my task manager at the moment.

I don't get it, what make you think WP7 = newer iPhone OS?
If let say the Start Screen can have background image customization, will you still say "Right, that is newer iPhone OS because in the future iPhone OS will have that feature as well".
Then what? iPhone will have Xbox integration as well?
And the "hubs" concept, is that also the next iPhone OS feature?
If that's what you believe, then everything will be the newer iPhone OS.
Of course there will be similarities, or similar restrictions, but saying they are exactly the same is just wrong.
pilgrim011 said:
Well, that's not much of a difference. You can choose which "mini squares" you want on your start screen on iPhone OS. That leaves us with only one advantage for WP7 - updating of live tiles. So, WP7 sounds like a newer iPhone OS version, nothing more. In fact, iPhone OS will (probably) support multitasking in the next version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gogol said:
For starter, you can have some customization WP7 Start Screen, while iPhone cant.
See? That's not EXACTLY like iPhone.
Oh well, let see after MIX if I still like WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, that's an advantage. I do think, when you compare the two locked down platforms, WP7 is really much better.
But still, it's just as locked down as iPhone OS. I don't want that. I want something that's open like Android (or WM6.5, but that's doomed).

Kloc said:
What kinda of multi tasking do you need?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same as on Windows XP or Windows 7 or WinMo 6X. Simply - multitasking.
gogol said:
Of course there will be similarities, or similar restrictions, but saying they are exactly the same is just wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not saying they are the same, but they are very similar. I hate iPhone OS (because of restrictions), and now I hate WP7 (for the same reasons).

watch apple will sue microsoft for a sliding to unlock mechanism XD
anyway its too early to tell, but i do wish there would be more apps developed for windows mobile 6.5 =\ i mean theres not much to do once you get done with all the nitty gritty stuff

windows vs android

i just have to say even though i am living with my desire and android if you think windows was worse with all its faults it wasnt, i so fed up with how poor android is that i have to come and say android is **** as **** as windows ever was so ram a sock in it ahh feel better.

Seems like you wouldnt get along with ANY operating system... maybe even iOS is too hard to handle for you.
Solution: Get a Dynatac 8000 by Motorola. It was the first of all MobilePhones and should totally cover your needs
Seriously, learn to give some arguments when you already decided to post some bul*s#@t
Greets Mate

Windows better!
I assume you are talking about your windows double glazing of your home, if that is the case Andriod is useless in comparison and I agree!
If you are talking about Windows Pocket PC in comparison then I can only assume you have not turned your Desire on yet!
Sam

elburna said:
Seems like you wouldnt get along with ANY operating system... maybe even iOS is too hard to handle for you.
Solution: Get a Dynatac 8000 by Motorola. It was the first of all MobilePhones and should totally cover your needs
Seriously, learn to give some arguments when you already decided to post some bul*s#@t
Greets Mate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic.
I'm loving that Motorola
Just imagine the hardware they could fit in that if someone had the balls to make a phone that big today?

I have a Dynatac 8000 on my mantle peice .

The one on there dynatec 8000 is perfect.

Could we please get some pertinent, on-topic comments here? I am also interested in a realistic comparison between these two OS, cause I am about to switch from WM to Android and I'm not sure I will have the same functionality...
Thanks in advance.
Conrad

Well, I switched from WinMo 6.1 on an HTC Touch Cruise. It had a nice custom ROM and worked very well.
The Desire is just fabulous to hold and play with, but it doesn't do any more than the Win phone. Desire screen is beautiful and so much more responsive than the old one. Internet surfing is much better.
Having flashed the old phone's ROM many times, you might think that I'd jump in to doing the same with the Desire, particularly as it only has 2.1 not Froyo yet.
But, I'm nervous about it ..... all this talk of rooting drives me up the wall!
And, I have to buy sat nav all over again - Middle east, Europe and South Africa - there goes 200 Euros! (no, Google directions don't work here).
Sorry to ramble on.
HTH.

Right. I miss my Pocket PC. I miss how ActiveSync would lose the partnership every so often. And how I had duplicates everywhere in Outlook after I re-created the partnership.

Are you for real? Android wins over WinMo 6.5 anytime. I have used a WinMo device for over 2 years and Android is a hell lot better then WinMo, and no, it is not even as unstable as WinMo.

I love android but i find it so unstable, unrooted stock. Killed the original sd card, my new sd card is partly corrupt. Stupid apps issue no space (i know u can root but u shouldnt have to).
Otherwise android has loads of pros against winmo and id choose android any day.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

(taking about stock android, not htc stuff on top of it)
Missing loads of stuff from good winmo. Also missing customer support (non existent for android).
Missing a proper bluetooth stack.
Missing a robust email client
Missing a sync that doesn't pixelate pictures
Missing a functional gallery
Missing the birthday and anniversary field
Missing a call recording app
Missing proper gsm/wav support
Missing a real install to sdcard function
Missing a real integration with Office
Missing the fact that however limited, winmo worked out of the box, android is a permanently beta product, needing hacks or waiting for updates
Missing a stylus (hehe)
Missing a properly moderated forum and a more mature audience
But I agree that htc sense on top of android is miles ahead of manila on top of winmo, especially since you are comparing winmo devices quite older than desire & co.
You can't compare the two. It's like comparing an amiga 2000 to a pentium powered PC
Sent from videotext, using the remote

what have you got against the Amiga 2000 !! >:d

I went with android because I believe Google is slightly less evil than Microsoft.
As far as the os is concerned they both have pros and cons, its down to personal preference in the end.

oursoul said:
what have you got against the Amiga 2000 !! >:d
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing ! It was actually a praise
Sent from videotext, using the remote

Missing loads of stuff from good winmo. Also missing customer support (non existent for android). - did ms give you customer support for winmo??
Missing a proper bluetooth stack. - no its not get your facts straight
Missing a robust email client - yet again no its not lol
Missing a sync that doesn't pixelate pictures - oh no thats a deal breaker lol
Missing a functional gallery - erm ok if ya say so pal
Missing the birthday and anniversary field - no its not duh
Missing a call recording app - only a perv needs to record calls lol
Missing proper gsm/wav support - yes just what we all need a hasbeen audio codec lol
Missing a real install to sdcard function - nand chips are big enough these days this isnt needed....
Missing a real integration with Office - it neva guna happen end of the day use your head
Missing the fact that however limited, winmo worked out of the box, android is a permanently beta product, needing hacks or waiting for updates - just because google updates the os and microsoft dosent, hows that bad? the udate function was just for show on winmo cuz ms are lazy
Missing a stylus (hehe) - not even worth a retort lol
Missing a properly moderated forum and a more mature audience - from your last post its also missing an educated audience

Missing loads of stuff from good winmo. Also missing customer support (non existent for android). - did ms give you customer support for winmo??
Yes, there was an email address and a phone number.android has forum support, which is non existent
Missing a proper bluetooth stack. - no its not get your facts straight
Android bluetooth stack is really poor and unstable
Missing a robust email client - yet again no its not lol
Gmail client has only recently fixed some major bugs about quotation and links. Stock email client is lacking a lot of functions
Missing a sync that doesn't pixelate pictures - oh no thats a deal breaker lol
Yes it is
Missing a functional gallery - erm ok if ya say so pal
3D android gallery is slow, dodgy and has an awful crop function for contacts
Missing the birthday and anniversary field - no its not duh
Stock android contacts don't have those fields
Missing a call recording app - only a perv needs to record calls lol
I won't even comment that
Missing proper gsm/wav support - yes just what we all need a hasbeen audio codec lol
Most voip answering machines send messages as attachments in that format.
Missing a real install to sdcard function - nand chips are big enough these days this isnt needed....
Funny you have a desire with 120 MB for applications...
Missing a real integration with Office - it neva guna happen end of the day use your head
Use what ? Have you ever worked in a professional environment?
Missing the fact that however limited, winmo worked out of the box, android is a permanently beta product, needing hacks or waiting for updates - just because google updates the os and microsoft dosent, hows that bad? the udate function was just for show on winmo cuz ms are lazy
Yeah right
Missing a stylus (hehe) - not even worth a retort lol
Whew
Missing a properly moderated forum and a more mature audience - from your last post its also missing an educated audience
What else to say...half your post has spelling errors, the other half is a "lol"
Sent from videotext, using the remote

I forsee in the future an new all encompassing OS called WinDroid mwuahahahaaa *cough*

I've used both, WinMo 6.5 on a hd2, and Android 2.2 on a Desire. The Desire I found is brilliant and really shows how much both Android devices and the Android operating system have come on since the initial release (my first android was a htc Hero running cupcake).
WinMo is good, i just find Android does better, the things I require from a mobile device. I guess its the apps that are streets ahead on Android, and the amount of free ones available. Windows mobile app development has pretty much come to a grinding holt, and even the apps that are available for both platforms, they seem so much better on Android (facebook app is a good example).
Also its interesting using the touch screen on WinMo 6.5 on the hd2 and also using it on Android on the hd2 also. Its like your using a different handset? The screen is so much more responsive using Android its unreal.
I really like the hd2 but after using the desire aswell, the Desire running 2.2 is my weapon of choice.

Of course the desire has my preference at the moment, of course it's also one generation ahead of my old touch hd.
My post was to point out some aspect of the immaturity and - at times - non-professional aspects of android.
It isn't out yet, but give me wp7 over the same desire hardware and I'm not so 100% sure which I will choose between htc sense and wp7. Give me stock android vs wp7 and I will choose wp7 blindly. Give me winmo 6.5.3 vs stock android and I will choose stock android very reluctantly.
I don't give so much importance if android has 20000 games, 30000 cool apps, etc. I only need 10-20 well made programs.
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[Q] Why Microsoft decided not to build NT-based OS?

Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?

Wolfas said:
Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?
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Click to collapse
if the app was created in siverlight/c# which alot of newer apps are then it can be ported to wp7.. For sometime now microsoft has been pushing their silverlight for devolpers to use so if the games you mentioned is bult in silverlight there should be no problem...

NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
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emuneee said:
NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
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Click to collapse
me eather!!! i am so done with wm 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 and its many problems having to flashing rom after rom, restarting the device cause it has no memory left, this list goes on... wp7 is like a breth of fresh air...

Why so negative? WM always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And I wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new OS, as NT-based Windows OS platform is the most popular in PC world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...

wolfas said:
why so negative? Wm always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And i wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new os, as nt-based windows os platform is the most popular in pc world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dont get me wrong i not trying to say 6.5 is not for some people just not for me... I think the fact that smartphones moved to a more touch enviroment it seems that the old wm is not as finger friendly and made more for the use of an stylist, to me this type of os seems to not work well on mobile devices for long peorids without a reboot maybe its the way its design or maybe it just have too many things of the desktop enviroment not sure but it gets to be a problem for me, others my not mind. As far as customizing goes well guess you cant have everything.. i personaly would prefer a more stable os than customization, and i am sure additional pc like options will come as well as more customization in the future..

I think the main reason why NT would not make a good mobile OS is simply because it was never designed or meant to run on a mobile device. Your phone is not a computer, so your phone needs an operating environment to suit it's purpose.
The "phone as a computer" approach has been tried by Microsoft, it's called Windows Mobile. While I love Windows Mobile, I have to say, having "Windows NT" on a phone just doesn't make sense.
While it would be cool to play Duke Nukem on your Windows NT mobile device, at the end of the day, you are going to put down your Windows NT phone and just sit at your computer and play Duke Nukem on that. It's just a better overall experience, and Windows NT was designed for that sit-down, productive, huge screen experience. So it wouldn't make sense to invest in a platform that no one would use at the end of the day because their desktop computer does it better.
What you have to do is create an entirely unique and different experience designed for the phone and "on-the-go" life, to complement the Windows NT desktop experience. That is after all, what your phone is for. That's what Windows Phone 7 is.
Can't wait to get my hands on a Windows Phone 7.... phone.... XD

Well, I guess you are right, but I will try once more to support my idea, if you don't mind. I still see some reasons why NT- based mobile OS would be a good idea:
1. There are plenty of popular netbooks, tablet PC's and other relative small devices with full XP, Vista or Win7 OS. All of them are made for on the go experience and still having NT OS. Not even talking about miniature UMPC's. We also often leave these devices unused when we turn on our normal PC's at home, but doesn't prevent them from having huge popularity.
2. Of cource, I do not want to suggest porting normal WinXP to mobile phones (but win98 on my touch pro didn't look half that bad ), but rather something with an UI suited for small screens, but still capable to run any application made for normal Windows.
3. I also think about the interest of developers to this kind of OS. Theorically, there would be no need to learn OS-specific programming, just the things used on any NT OS. Most of the developers who makes programs for PC would be able to make a version for this OS just by changing the resolution, leaving engine just the same.
Please, say your opinion about these things I've pointed out

1. Netbooks and tablets still operate outside of the smartphone arena of capabilities and requirements for most users. There is a reason why there isn't a successful phone running Windows XP. You can write the drivers and software for phone functionality, but at the end of the day NT was not produced with phones in mind.
2. Applications written for desktops are written for desktop processors and memory capacities. Its not a simple change of just resolutions. What if an app request memory that doesn't exist on the mobile device? Chances are the mobile device can't even address that amount of memory. So you design a mobile focused NT kernel...well now all apps can't run on both platforms..so what's the point.
3. Yes you do, because all the capabilities available on a desktop aren't available on a smartphone. Developers still have to keep that in mind when their app is in development.
I sit here looking at my Windows XP work workstation and I would kill myself if I had to use this on a phone. Windows Mobile was hard enough.
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I forget the name but there was a secret (ish) project inside Microsoft to make the NT kernel more portable and sorta combine it with the CE kernel. They were basically building off the MinWin work.
But remember, native code still wouldn't be cross platform. x86 and ARM are not binary compatible. Just look at "OSX" on Mac desktops and "OSX" as the base of "iOS". Nothing crosses back and forth.

The NT kernel doesn't scale down that well yet. The kernel land is still full of bidirectional vertical dependencies. The current lowest profile incarnation called MinWin needs like 40MB RAM to boot to a text console and offer next to no APIs and is still shock full of missing dependencies (apparently boot loader magic makes it not break on boot).
Once they're really done despaghettifying, you might see it on mobile devices. But that'll still take a while, because right now, slimming down involves tons of aliasing dependencies to nothing.

Absolutely no reason why they could not run NT on a smart phone but why would they? They already have Windows CE (aka pocket PC) and if MS had been serious about Pocket PC IMHO they would be in a much better market position now.
One of the biggest messups with Pocket PC is the inconsistancy of the user interface and MS failed to revamp the 6.5 completely for touch.... They have a lot of good things going with WM 6.5 but it was an incomplete effort and it shows.

well, I see you are right... That NT is much more complex monster than I thought, thanks for clearing that out Yesterday, I found information about device called xpPhone, I wonder what would you say about it ? http://www.xpphone.com/en/product/specification.html