Develop Bugs

At startup and in general, how much program memory should be in use?

I know there's probably no right answer for this, but i feel like my program memory is always very high and am wondering if that could be what contributes to my poor battery life.
I just started my phone and it says using 28.8MB out of 48.8 (which is lower than sometimes). One of the things that bothers me is when i run a few programs but then close them i don't always see the memory usage drop back down to below that 30MB mark. Sometimes it'll stay up at 35 even with all programs not running. I'm wondering what levels other people are seeing and if mine is high, why?
BTW, I am running K's WM6.0 on an 8525 of Radio 1.47.30.10

Im running MRH 4.5.1 which uses CRCs R9.1 and with my phone on for the last 24-36 hours I just closed all the running apps and checked my memory and Im at 27.35 MB in use and 21.33 MB free.
So compared to mine, yes yours does seem a little bit high, especially since I can launch stuff and fill up the memory but as soon as I close it all down Im right back to around 28 MB in use.

Depends on programs you've got installed and whether or not they are set to startup automatically.
After a reboot I am using 23.35 MB of ram.
Search in the /Windows/Startup folder and delete what you don't want to startup automatically.

Also keep in mind that every folder, start menu, settings, you open will use up some memory. For example if you go to Start/Settings and wait for it to load. Then click on the System Tab, you will notice it takes 1 second or so to open. If go back to the Personal Tab, and then click on the System Tab a 2nd time,,, you will notice it loads immediately. This is because all the "icons" are loaded into your memory. Same thing when you click on your Start Menu the 1st time, there is a slight delay. Then when you reopen it, it opens immediately.
This is common knowledge but closing an App with the X doesn't always actually close it. I recommend downloading a good task manager that allows you to view memory usage and processes. I'm using Task Manager 3.0 by Fdcsoft.
Then lastly, their is an app by Oxios called CloseApps 1.40,,, this will free up some memory even after you have ever application closed. I just used it to get the version number and I didn't have any app running. It just now freed up 3300kb of memory for me.

Problem WM6.1 kills applications

I have a problem that applications that run in background are sometimes killed automatically.
When an application is running, I start another application and after closing the second application the first application is closed too.
For example:
OZI-Explorer is running. I start the camera to take a picture. While the camera is running I can see that the GPS-LED (OZI uses GPS) stops flashing. So OZI Explorer was killed in background. After closing the camera OZI-Explorer is gone.
Sometimes I only run a game like vexed. S2U comes up to lock the screen. After Unlock vexed is closed.
Program memory is not the problem. I have more than 13M sometimes near 20M when more than 1 application is running and the problem occurs.
I found out 2 things:
- Direct after soft reset the problem does not occur, but after a while of
usage.
- all WM6.1 roms with a higher build number than Artemis touch 4.02 have this problem.
In 4.02 or lower the problem never occurs.
Does anyone have this problem too?
Andre

это не глюк,это фича
Keep an eye on free ram! even 13 mb is not enough for smooth running. especially for gps.
when the level of it is low, OS close applications automatically.

With Artemis Touch 4.02 I had less program memory than now, but the problem NEVER occured.
I use sashimi - so on every ROM I use, the installed programs are the same.
Sometimes the problem occurs with 20M free program memory.
I have no idea anymore.
I like the new rom from Tom (Oops) cause it's faster than 4.02, but I think I've to return to 4.02.
br
Andre

I found something:
HKLM\SOFTWARE\HTC\TastManager\EnableAutoKill = 1
Can this be the problem? I'll set the value to 0 and test.
br
Andre

I think I have it.
With search after EnableAutoKill I found this:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=373128&page=2
br
Andre

tom' rom have a pagepool less than on vanilla - this can make a problem on his roms....

Problem solved
The problem is solved. It's really the terrible HTC Task manager.
If Autokill is enabled the task manager kills background applications if the free memory is under 9MB.
The pagepool is not the Problem cause Vanilla has the smallest PP size (5MB) - only indirect cause the free memory could be higher ;-).
I watched that sometimes a windows thread uses for only a very few seconds much memory. The free program menory fells from 18 suddenly to 9MB and returns immediately to 18MB. These few seconds are enough for the taskmanager to kill applications, but you don't realize that the memory was low.
After disabling this feature the system runs optimal.
regards
Andre

Background-ed app eating CPU resources!

Hi,
We all knew that we should not use task killer to kill apps, because when we hit the back button, the app will not active anymore ... but it will still occupy some memory (RAM).
When Android OS needs more RAM it will remove in-active apps to free some.
Related article: http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/ (GOOD READ)
We should not panic when we see a huge list of apps when we start task killer.
Ok, got it there ...
Now, I installed this app called Quick System Info (FREE):
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/org.uguess.android.sysinfo/
Which you can use to see what kind of processes are still running or apps that are still occupying RAM. It could show you the amount of RAM and CPU resources that are being used by each app.
So, I went to the Quick System Info -> Processes, hit the "menu" button -> Preferences and set like this:
- Update Speed = Low
- Show Memory Usage [checked]
- Show CPU Usage [checked]
- Sort by = CPU Usage
- Direction = Descending
Go back and watch ...
Surprisingly, I saw "Market" app is eating 1% CPU resources once in a while ... again and again ...
Hey, I thought it (Market app) is suspended in the background? I don't have it active, I pressed the back button when I finished with it.
Why is it eating 1% CPU from now an then in the background?
Obviously, this will drain battery power for something that I don't need.
Any thought?
I am now wondering if I install other kind of process monitoring app, and see if the suspended Quick System Info is also eating CPU resources

Why should we not use task killers? I`ve used them on android for the last year otherwise like you say background tasks use resources slowing up the system.
Obviously dont close any system important apps but I`m always closing down background apps that I no longer require.

1% every now and again? I really wouldn't worry about that to be perfectly honest. The impact on battery life will be incredibly small, so much so I doubt you'd even notice if you weren't watching it like a hawk.
By far the biggest drain on battery life remains all of the wireless stuff (wifi, bluetooth and 3G internet) followed closely by the screen itself. Turn those off when not in use and the miniscule drain of suspended tasks won't be an issue.
I'm sure if Google thought suspended tasks would be an important factor in battery drain they would've designed it differently to start with.

Read this article
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
paulruk said:
Why should we not use task killers? I`ve used them on android for the last year otherwise like you say background tasks use resources slowing up the system.
Obviously dont close any system important apps but I`m always closing down background apps that I no longer require.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

It does every minute or so, and so far I found only this app (Market).
I just found out this morning before went to work, so I don't have time to inspect more.
Too bad I cannot see CPU TIME (the amount of time the process took 100% of cpu resources).
Noiz said:
1% every now and again? I really wouldn't worry about that to be perfectly honest. The impact on battery life will be incredibly small, so much so I doubt you'd even notice if you weren't watching it like a hawk.
By far the biggest drain on battery life remains all of the wireless stuff (wifi, bluetooth and 3G internet) followed closely by the screen itself. Turn those off when not in use and the miniscule drain of suspended tasks won't be an issue.
I'm sure if Google thought suspended tasks would be an important factor in battery drain they would've designed it differently to start with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

that 1% would be it occasionally checking in with the market to see if any updates have been released for the programs you have installed, so that it can give you a notification when the update is released.
i would imagine that is what it is anyway.
and yes, 1% every so often is negligible, and if you killed just that process, i doubt you would notice any difference.

gogol said:
Surprisingly, I saw "Market" app is eating 1% CPU resources once in a while ... again and again ...
Hey, I thought it (Market app) is suspended in the background? I don't have it active, I pressed the back button when I finished with it.
Why is it eating 1% CPU from now an then in the background?
Obviously, this will drain battery power for something that I don't need.
Any thought?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure about this..
Have you noticed that you will get a notification if there is an update to application that is installed in your phone?
I think the marketplace doesn't have a push notification yet. So it periodically will check whether there is any update to the installed application.

Allright, that might be it ... the Market is checking for apps aupdate.
And most probably 1% is not much (I don't know how to measure this and translate it to battery life time). 1% every minute ... hmmm
1 hour of 1% cpu per minute = X % of battery life.
If we have N processes?
N = email check, weather check, friendstream check, RSS check, whatnot check

I`ll give you an example why I use a task killer.
Sometimes I use an app that goes online every few minutes and notifies me of any updates. I can 100% be certain this app even when in the background uses enough cpu to cause the phone to slowdown. Dont ask me why, maybe bad programming but this is the exact reason why I need a task killer to get rid of it.
Once its gone the phone is fine again. it happends on a few apps I own, so when I finish with them, I kill them.
I wouldnt recommend a task killer that kills everything, you just need to be selective.

That is a perfect example for using task killer
What I wrote in the first post is about using task killer to just kill apps without knowing anything.
In the past, I just select all and KILL ... Then the HTC Sense got reloaded
I was scared it could corrupt my phone ... lol.
paulruk said:
I`ll give you an example why I use a task killer.
Sometimes I use an app that goes online every few minutes and notifies me of any updates. I can 100% be certain this app even when in the background uses enough cpu to cause the phone to slowdown. Dont ask me why, maybe bad programming but this is the exact reason why I need a task killer to get rid of it.
Once its gone the phone is fine again. it happends on a few apps I own, so when I finish with them, I kill them.
I wouldnt recommend a task killer that kills everything, you just need to be selective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yes thats a bit extreme killing everything.
I`ve also used startup auditor in the past. That stops some apps loading at startup , for example footprints, never use it so I kill it before it gets a chance to load up. Have to be careful what you limit though as some tasks are used by others.

That Startup Auditor is interesting, does it work as expected?
Or you encountered some quirks or issues with it?
Yeah, I don't quite like with the way Android startup (or HTC?), for example: FM radio ... it also started automatically after reboot.
paulruk said:
Yes thats a bit extreme killing everything.
I`ve also used startup auditor in the past. That stops some apps loading at startup , for example footprints, never use it so I kill it before it gets a chance to load up. Have to be careful what you limit though as some tasks are used by others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gogol said:
That Startup Auditor is interesting, does it work as expected?
Or you encountered some quirks or issues with it?
Yeah, I don't quite like with the way Android startup (or HTC?), for example: FM radio ... it also started automatically after reboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to work fine, not sure what help it is though hehe, in terms of speed/memory savings. I stop the radio , bluetooth,google talk and footprints. But I also use it to start some apps automatically.
I found this list of what you can/can`t disable. You can still run them after startup, just they wont load automatically when you start the phone.
safe
Google Partner Setup
Network Location (if not using apps which need geolocation regularly. ie. Gmaps, GeoTag, etc.)
Bluetooth Share (if not using BT device)
Email (if not using email service other than Gmail)
Messaging (if using 3rd party sms app, ie. Handcent SMS. or if infrequent texter)
Calendar (if calendar is not used regularly)
Calendar Storage (if calendar is not used regularly)
Voice Dialer (if not used)
Google Talk Service (if GTalk is not used regularly)
Maps (if GMaps is not used regularly)
unsafe
Clock
Media Storage
Android System
Gmail Storage
Sync Feeds
Dialer
System Updater (not sure about this one)
My Uploads (not sure about this one)
Download Manager (not sure about this one)

stop apps auto starting on boot?

as title really.
some apps i only use every other day auto start. there's no need for it and i have to kill em off.
is there a way yet of preventing them from starting automatically?

tommo123 said:
as title really.
some apps i only use every other day auto start. there's no need for it and i have to kill em off.
is there a way yet of preventing them from starting automatically?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try Autorun Killer, it's in the market
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Market -> Startup Manager
;-)

be careful though, stopping the wrong things from starting up can bork your phone

tommo123 said:
some apps i only use every other day auto start. there's no need for it and i have to kill em off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Q. Why do you have to kill them off?
Regards,
Dave

they use memory and use the cpu from time to time. for things i only use on occasion it doesn't make sense for them to run all the time.
same with windows, programs add themselves to the startup list. it's pointless if you use those programs only once a week or so

anyhoo, tis working now.
ta all

tommo123 said:
they use memory and use the cpu from time to time. for things i only use on occasion it doesn't make sense for them to run all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMHO, not enough to make any serious difference.
If the apps are not being used, they will consume little to no CPU cycles, and if memory becomes tight the system will automatically kill them off.
same with windows, programs add themselves to the startup list. it's pointless if you use those programs only once a week or so
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but the task management on Windows is vastly different to Android, so I don't think you can draw direct any accurate conclusions from the comparison.
My experience with Android stretches back to the US release of the G1 (~ October'08), and so I've been through all of these "performance enhancements" before (autostarts, task killers etc etc) on the G1, and then later the Hero.
In the long term, I've found leaving the system alone to do its own thing improves the experience and I regularly get 30+ hours usage from a single charge (heavy user) and absolutely zero issues with lag - your mileage may vary of course!
Regards,
Dave

i get that, i also (as a bit of a e-control freak) can't stand things running when they have no need to. i have the paypal app, and even though it's something i would probably use every few weeks, runs all the time. it would be more efficient to have power user disallow these from running except when needed. it's annoying really since i want control of what happens on my phone
i did say i was a control freak

my concern is if the app is killing my battery ? I notice even with the task killer , I kill all apps (running ) but it appears again later on the list.
Will Autorun Killer stop the apps completely when not in use ?

[Q] Task Killers/Freeing Memory Question

From my searching, even on other sites, supposedly this topic has been beaten to death, yet I can't seem to find much about it.
Basically, I would like to keep apps, like Facebook, Email, and Amazon Video, etc., from running until I start them up. Then I would like for them to close, and stay closed, when I'm not using them. In essence, act like a typical app.
All I have been able to find is that you can use a Task Killer to achieve this. But, the average opinion seems to be is that the TKs uses as much, if not more, resources repeatedly killing the constantly restarting apps as just letting the apps "run". Basically, I've yet to find out if it is or isn't possible to keep these apps from constantly restarting on their own.
The reason I want to make these changes is that when my memory gets full, my Fire will lock up, or slow down, for 30 seconds or so... sometimes longer. Supposedly, the O/S is designed to keep as much in memory as possible and it supposedly frees up memory quickly, from apps that you aren't using, when needed. In my experience this is definitely not the case... especially when I click the Task Killer button and my Fire instantly returns back to normal speed... and never did the CPU go above 600Mhz (which is the min I have it set to).... which means it wasn't an issue with the CPU being overloaded.
So does anyone know of a way to keep these persistent apps from being persistent?
BTW, I'm running a pretty standard rooted Fire that I just re-did using the KFU v9.6 and all the "goodies" with it, like the GoLauncher.
TIA

PBFred said:
Supposedly, the O/S is designed to keep as much in memory as possible and it supposedly frees up memory quickly, from apps that you aren't using, when needed. In my experience this is definitely not the case... especially when I click the Task Killer button and my Fire instantly returns back to normal speed...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true that, under normal circumstances, you shouldn't worry about it. It sounds like your system is simply lacking in memory because it has some high priority tasks eating it all away (Carousel + GO Launcher are probably hogging up a bunch already).
Seeing how you're running rooted Stock with Go Launcher and a bunch of other applications - have you considered switching to Modaco? It's based on Stock...
PBFred said:
So does anyone know of a way to keep these persistent apps from being persistent?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer this question, other than applying memory scripts, some task killers can be set to autoclose a pre-defined list of apps when you press a widget button - this may interest you. Look into the settings/options of the task killer you're using.

Maybe give this a shot?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rs.autorun&hl=en

PBFred said:
From my searching, even on other sites, supposedly this topic has been beaten to death, yet I can't seem to find much about it.
Basically, I would like to keep apps, like Facebook, Email, and Amazon Video, etc., from running until I start them up. Then I would like for them to close, and stay closed, when I'm not using them. In essence, act like a typical app.
All I have been able to find is that you can use a Task Killer to achieve this. But, the average opinion seems to be is that the TKs uses as much, if not more, resources repeatedly killing the constantly restarting apps as just letting the apps "run". Basically, I've yet to find out if it is or isn't possible to keep these apps from constantly restarting on their own.
The reason I want to make these changes is that when my memory gets full, my Fire will lock up, or slow down, for 30 seconds or so... sometimes longer. Supposedly, the O/S is designed to keep as much in memory as possible and it supposedly frees up memory quickly, from apps that you aren't using, when needed. In my experience this is definitely not the case... especially when I click the Task Killer button and my Fire instantly returns back to normal speed... and never did the CPU go above 600Mhz (which is the min I have it set to).... which means it wasn't an issue with the CPU being overloaded.
So does anyone know of a way to keep these persistent apps from being persistent?
BTW, I'm running a pretty standard rooted Fire that I just re-did using the KFU v9.6 and all the "goodies" with it, like the GoLauncher.
TIA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just let the OS do what it was designed to do, which is manage the apps and memory automatically. Any interference with that setup will only be a detriment to performance and battery life.
These are not full-featured Operating Systems like what is running on your desktop. Android (and iOS, and even Win8 Metro) automatically manages free memory, running processes, and stopping/starting of apps.
If you try to mess with this, it will cost you battery life and performance as the OS will continue to attempt to maintain it's designed status-quo by restarting apps that you've killed, and reassigning memory that you've freed up.
Task killers are only handy if you have an app that runs away and won't allow itself to be shut down (happens less often with every release/update), and even then, just cycling the device is more than enough to clean that up.
tl;dr Task Killers - Don't.

taskillers worked great in cupcake and donut... Using them In ics is just abusive.
PETA (peeps for ethical treatment of Android)
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium

AlexDeGruven said:
tl;dr Task Killers - Don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may be a dumb question, but I've read that kind of synopsis several times. With the release of ICS however, we have the option of killing previously running apps via the multitasking bar. What's the difference?

BleedsOrangeandBlue said:
This may be a dumb question, but I've read that kind of synopsis several times. With the release of ICS however, we have the option of killing previously running apps via the multitasking bar. What's the difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's mostly in the way the OS talks to the task at hand. A Task Killer simply yanks the rug out from under the application in question, whether it's in a safe-to-stop state or not, and disregards any background services an app might be using. In many cases, the OS interprets this as a crash and attempts to get the app back into a 'normal' state.
ICS's task management politely asks (for lack of a better term) the app to stop and take any of its background processes with it. Sometimes, only the very foreground part of the app closes, sometimes the entire application and all services stop. But at the very least, you don't have the constant kill-recycle cycle that occurs with task killers.
ICS's method is much preferred, if not necessarily needed in most cases. I use it as a convenience to keep the list of recent apps clear.

androidcues said:
taskillers worked great in cupcake and donut... Using them In ics is just abusive.
PETA (peeps for ethical treatment of Android)
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For memory management, yes. For killing wakelock abusers - they still have a reason for existing there.
Mainly Facebook. Facebook STILL holds excessive wakelocks on a regular basis (although it's not as bad as the perma-wakelock it held a year ago), and is the primary reason I keep Advanced Task Killer around.
Never use an autokiller though.
Only use a task killer for managing identified misbehaving apps that you just have to keep around for some reason (like Facebook). Never use a task killer for memory management reasons - only use it on apps that are using excessive background CPU or wakelocks. (usually, apps that are high on the ****list in Settings->Battery.)

There are programs like 'Gemini Task Manager" that will let you edit/modify the automatic startup settings for any particular app. At the very least it will let you see what apps may be causing problems on your device. As far as I know it only edits the startup to keep them from running in the first place rather than constantly killing them when they do like some task managers.

Thanks for all the info. It appears that just leaving it the way it is is what I should do... especially since 95% of what I use the Fire for is for reading books. But I am a Windows/Cisco Sys Eng, so I like to tinker with all my tech devices whenever I can.
That being said, it seems to me that if these "persistent apps" were on a Windows O/S, they would be running as a Service. And if you know Windows, you would know that Services can be set to restart if they are stopped by any means, except through the Service Manager Console itself (or the command line, if you really know Windows). But I have no clue if Linux/Android has the equivalent of Windows Services. I would have to believe that full-fledged versions of Linux/Unix does, but maybe not Android. Just a thought... and maybe it is something people have overlooked when trying to keep these "persistent apps" from being persistent.
Typically, in Windows, you would never ever think of running Facebook as a Service... but you easily could if you wanted to. And it appears that Amazon really wants Facebook, and several other apps, to be running at all times, for no apparent reason.
Oh well, if I had a 2nd Fire, I would "hack" the hell out of it. But since I don't, and I read a lot, I'll just be happy with what I got. And honestly, even after having the Fire since the first day it came out, I'm still loving it.

PBFred said:
Thanks for all the info. It appears that just leaving it the way it is is what I should do... especially since 95% of what I use the Fire for is for reading books. But I am a Windows/Cisco Sys Eng, so I like to tinker with all my tech devices whenever I can.
That being said, it seems to me that if these "persistent apps" were on a Windows O/S, they would be running as a Service. And if you know Windows, you would know that Services can be set to restart if they are stopped by any means, except through the Service Manager Console itself (or the command line, if you really know Windows). But I have no clue if Linux/Android has the equivalent of Windows Services. I would have to believe that full-fledged versions of Linux/Unix does, but maybe not Android. Just a thought... and maybe it is something people have overlooked when trying to keep these "persistent apps" from being persistent.
Typically, in Windows, you would never ever think of running Facebook as a Service... but you easily could if you wanted to. And it appears that Amazon really wants Facebook, and several other apps, to be running at all times, for no apparent reason.
Oh well, if I had a 2nd Fire, I would "hack" the hell out of it. But since I don't, and I read a lot, I'll just be happy with what I got. And honestly, even after having the Fire since the first day it came out, I'm still loving it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's still completely different system paradigms. In mobile OSes, background services are typically in a paused state when not actively in use, where in full-featured OSes, they can be in any one of several states.
As to the fb service running, that has nothing to do with Amazon. That's just the fb mobile developers not knowing what they're doing.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2