Dear all,
How is it in general with harware 3D support on HTC devices?
Are appropriate SDKs available? Either Direct3DMobile, or OpenGL? Are their drivers adapted for 3D software, expecially games?
Where can I find more information, please?
Thank you very much,
Rene
Hardware 3D support for HTC devices
Dear all,
How is it in general with harware/software 3D support on Windows Mobile HTC devices:
Are appropriate 3D SDKs available?
Is either Direct3DMobile or OpenGL supported?
Are the drivers adapted for 3D applications?
Where can I get more information on this topic?
Thank you very much,
Rene
There's already a lot of projects that handle these questions.
Here's what my good friend had to say about it:
http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...t=result&cd=1&q=graphics+acceleration&spell=1
This can't be answered in general as it depends on the chipset used in the device. Check my sig for an OpenGLES/VG test app (in the first post you'll find a link to a thread with improved 3d drivers for MSM72xx devices)
Original drivers are poor in terms of gpu support.
D3D support is msdn and OpenGLES info at khronos group.
Just search for samples/sdk. There are some around (e.g. PowerVR SDK)
Hello Heliosdev,
However, say if I want do develop 3D applicaiton for QSD8250, I need to have appropriate SDK. This SDK must be able to generate code, that will support the GPU of QSD8250.
How is it with SDK's for QSD8250 and associated video drivers, please?
Thanks.
Hello Noonski,
Thanks for info. I understand your point, but before I came here, I did not find anything specific to QSD8250 that is in HTC HD 2.
I would really need to know what is its situation with HW 3D support, OpenGH ES 2.0 and Video Driver.
So far i know that its GPU supports version 2 of OpenGL ES. But no idea if there is an SDK available and support of its driver.
Regards,
Rene
Sounds like a valid Software Problem to me.
I had first thought you where referring to the older devices.
Touch HD2 is indeed very new ground.
I hope you get the attention of some of the developers that have dealed with Graphics hardware support in the past.
Related
Hi,
as many of you allready know, HTC released the new HTC Touch as a response to Apple's iPhone.
I looked at some videos on youtube and some technical specs of the phone.. and it simply seems a program that runs on a WM6. So it shouldn't be some difficult to port it to other devices, I don't think that the HTC Touch has some special hardware or touchscreen.
The only thing I read is that it has different touchscreen drivers, but that shouldn't be a problem: I already saw here on xda-dev many other ports or programming miracles
Ok it's a program native for QVGA... that sucks and could possibly cause many problems to port it on the Universal.
It could also be that it wouldn't have decent performance playing the animantions (page flip,...) because of the VGA resolution.
I don't know.... but I would like to create this thread in order to see the progress and the news of the Touch Technology (let's call it so) port on Universal.
Helmi, Midget and all other gurus of the universal... please help us with this cool Touch Tech
Videos of the HTC Touch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI9h3TRndhY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8PMcvYTZo
...and here is some basic infos and some dumps:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=311225
I've to say that the today plugin and the rest of the menus are very similar to Spb Mobile Shell... the only thing more are the gestures that you can make on the touchscreen and the animations between the menus.
Ok let's go!
We'll see how it goes on now
So...
It's kinda just a new interface for Windows Mobile?
Yep
markymanxxx said:
So...
It's kinda just a new interface for Windows Mobile?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep I think so too. It doesn't seem to me that there are significant hardware differences between the HTC Touch and other PocketPCs.
But let's wait and see what our gurus say to it
Sorry to dissapoint....
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys & gals, but over at the Athena and Hermes forums and some others over at 4winmobile have been looking into this for some time now and there is a major difference other than the .dll driver.
The Touch has a new technology screen that is completely different from what has been in PPC's before. Most of the software can be ported from the HTC Touch/Elf, and will work on QVGA WM5/6 devices and some conversions will be necessary for our VGA devices, but the actual Cube Touch GUI will NOT work without the right hardware.
see here for more info:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=310459&page=3
mackaby007 said:
Been following a cool thread over at 4winmobile.com about the whole HTC Touch themes, cabs and interface etc...Looks like everything else is transferable, except the cube GUI, as......
Also...
Sorry peeps. Looks like new screen hardware after all But no one is giving up on an alternative.
Anyway, take a look at that thread anyway as it is very interesting all the same.
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/hermes-black-rom-announcements/9739-black-iv-shadow-preview.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have to confirm that it is new hardware, and that the plugins/programs have the resolution hard-coded into them so nothing useful for our uni yet...
interestingly enough though the biotouch (what they call it) calls use native windows mobile dll's (albeit new functions that previously were not in there, so we can speculate that this isnt a one off and more devices will be seen with these type of screens)
dll's and VGA
Basically when I see how they use this touchscreen I see no big difference between an old one.
For the cube GUI the system has only to recognize a "touch & drag" on the screen. If this function isn't in our dll's they could somehow be ported on our uni
But the most big problem I see is the VGA resolution.....
Anyone knows the HTC Touch specs? Has it some new and high performance graphic chip (perhaps nvidia or something similar?)
Because we have to consider that VGA = 4x QVGA (number of pixels) and as I know our beatuful Uni hasn't a luxus graphic processor. I remember some benchmarks and compared to other devices it had a somehow slower graphic chip.
I'm afraid that if we can port the gui to Uni on VGA it won't work with decent performance
Does anyone know more of the Cube GUI? Is it precalculated (only an animation) or is it a realtime rapresentation of the current objects flipping over the faces of a cube?
To be honest I think it's precalculated graphics... Why make it realtime and performance-cost? The cube turns very fast and it would very difficult to see the difference between a simple animation and a real 3d rendering.
And when we think how many open processes a user has on his pocketpc; I could easly imagine that if we only were listening to music with an mp3 player, with a resident antivirus (lol) and some other background apps....the cube would have big problems to be rendered at a decent framerate.
Ok these are only speculations, I have no idea of how the HTC Touch really works. I only saw the youtube presentation
If the cube won't be ported on Uni... I'll wait for someone to adapt Beryl for PocketPC eheheheh lol
Go on folks...
Greets
Touch on..... Prophet.
I made some changes in touch rom and it can run on my prophet, but i have alot of bugs like battery bug and touchscreen bug.
Silver_Gost said:
I made some changes in touch rom and it can run on my prophet, but i have alot of bugs like battery bug and touchscreen bug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does the cube GUI work (even partially) ?
are there no news for the Universal??
Hi all, I have been following HTCclassaction etc and have done extensive googling to find out the state of an open GL driver for our Vogue (MSM 7500).
The closest hope I had is NFSFAN's roms and post's at PPCHaven.
NFSFAN, you stated you are working on this, any updates so far? Also when (not if, I greatly respect your amount of talent) you finally come up with a workable driver will you release it to the comunity as a whole as well as in your ROMS?
Thanks for the update, and thank you very much for all your work to date. It is very much appreciated.
I found this document on BREW forums (Qualacom). It is about software solutions for msm7500 chipsets regarding openGL es.
It's a little over my head but maybe someone on here can use it.
I can't upload it because it is over the forums limits. I've never used rapidshare or megaupload before but i'll try. Here is some previews of the header so you know what it's about:
3D Performance
Optimization
Angus Dorbie
Staff Engineer (3D)- Gaming Technologies Group
MSM7500 – Major Carriers FFAs NOW
MSM7500 Graphics Pipeline Overview
• Licenced integrated OpenGL® ES solution
• Hardware accelerated vertex and pixel processing
• Integrated in MSM processor
• OpenGL ES 1.0 Common profile + all major 1.1 features
• Extension: OES_vertex_buffer_object,
EGL_QUALCOMM_color_buffer, ATI_TC Compression, Texture
Combiners, Texture Crossbar, Alternative Texture
Coordinate Formats, Matrix Palette, DrawTexture, Point
Sprites
• Java JSR-184, D3D, SKT’s GIGA, HI’s V4, Superscape’s
Swerve APIs support implemented on top of OpenGL ES
pipeline
etc etc,
shows some neat graphics of what can be attained, detailed analysis of the chipset etc.
Well that was easy, here it is:
http://http://rapidshare.com/files/182666655/Prog-401_Dorbie_v05.pdf.html
Couldnt open the page. Can you try again?
Ooops, first time radipshare user mistake.
edited the link, it should work now I just tested it myself.
I reached the d/l limit so I will try in about 15 minutes. I am not a developer, but I am really interested in getting 3d workiong on our phones and am feeling inclined to learn alot and then perhpas get involved via htcclassaction.org. I'm more of an activitst than anything else! But I do really appreciate everything that people do on here and am more than happy to be a guinnea pig with my phone.
No, fully accelerated Hardware Direct3D is not possible on the Vogue. The DDI doesn't have the required calls it takes for Hardware Accelerated D3D. The closest I ever got was porting standalone OpenGL and a faster Software Accelerated D3D driver, but it is nowhere near the performance of a true Hardware D3D driver.
"The closest I ever got was porting standalone OpenGL and a faster Software Accelerated D3D driver"
That's still closer than most people have ever gotten. The only phone htcclassaction has a driver for is the Kaiser. You seem to be the only one that was able to develop this for the Vogue. The effort is appreciated, I remember when you were the only Dev interested in releasing Bell ROMS.
Any chance of releasing the 2 (your stand alone OpenGL and software driver) to the community as cab files?
Thanks again
Jason
You will need a patched XIP with a diamond wce_rex.dll and mmmap.dll. Then you will need clkregim.dll in the ROM. I can't release a community pack, because I doubt any other vogue rom that you will find other than mine has these files.
Thanks for the reply,
Guess I might have to flash again sometime soon.....Darn!!
Hey guys, what game has the best graphics for the Touch HD
thanks.
Best is a big word... Try Virtual Pool Mobile v1.73...
There are developing new drivers for HTC touch hd . The drivers of the current device (3D) aren't great...
Use the search function to find out more.
thinking that a PC with specs like blackstone can run Quake II OPENGL smoothly makes me wanna cry
Ive been reading alot about it and from what ive gathered, is it because HTC havent made proper drivers for the GPU. and if so, what can we do about it? Ive downloaded the HTC Diamond ATI drivers (which helped a bit), but is there anything else?
Hi,
Unfortunanately there isn't yet a lot of information available out on the net regarding development using Microsoft.WindowsMobile.DirectX namespace.
I am hoping we can start a new forum section dedicated to just this? What do you guys think?
I've only been working with it for about a week now, and I am struggling to find helpful information, and am figuring out a lot of things through trial and error (note the SDK documentation is quite thin too!).
Is there anyone else on this site that is keen to collaborate and share DirectX experiences?
i'm very interested in but i failed in basics (look here) and nobody here seems something to know about that.
one year before i gained few expieriences in direct3d. its similar but not the same to develop for mobile...
did you get running the examples of d3d from the ms mobile sdk?
heggenhugo said:
did you get running the examples of d3d from the ms mobile sdk?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, all the examples (not) in the SDK worked. I put "not" in parentheses because it took me a long time to locate them as the are no longer included as part of the .Net compact framework SDKs or the DirectX compact framework.
I am working on a simple app now that will determine the hardwares capabilities, allowing developers to quickly discover which devices their apps/games will run on. But I am still only just getting used to the environment also.
could you send me please (or link) a working example? it would be enough to see how to create a d3d window. i want to develop an application that uses the g-sensor to navigate in a little 3d environment (for instance turn around a cube or sth like this).
ty
VB.Net D3DM Samples - DirectX Capabilities App
Here are all the MS provided examples. I have not tried them all, but most of them work (on my device). The emulators run them, but very very slowly.
I have also attached the ActiveX Capabilites Test.exe application I created which will show you exactly what DirectX features are available on a particular device.
It requires .Net 3.5 to be installed.
View attachment VB.zip - Vb.Net samples
View attachment 250790 - DirectX Capability Test (install to device)
A good start
Anyone looking to get started on Mobile DirectX Development, should start with the fundimentals of the Managed DirectX Runtimes.
I recommend "Managed DirectX 9 Kick Start - Graphics and Game Programming" by Tom Miller. It's a good start into the world of Managed DirectX.
Greetings
Does Rhodium have driver issues like the HTC devices based on the MSM7200 and MSM7500 chipsets from Qualcomm?
for more about the "driver issues" visit this link
Update: (The following page has been last updated at 2008)
http://www.htcclassaction.org/
If yes, .. is there a solution? ... and does it really effect the normal performance of the device or is it just in "3D games" or something like that?
Note: I found a topic about it but it was not related to Rhodium, ... i wanted to ask about Rhodium specifically and since the topic there are not specifically for Rhodium users, ... i posted it here
Cheers
Update: URL for Enhanced Custom D3D Driver (for Rhodium):
Enhanced D3D Driver (for Rhodium)
Doesnt seem so:
* HTC TyTN II (MSM7200), also known as:
o HTC Kaiser
o T-Mobile MDA Vario III
o AT&T Tilt
o Vodafone v1615
* HTC Touch Dual (MSM7200), also known as:
o HTC Nike
* HTC Touch Cruise (MSM7200), also known as:
o HTC Polaris
o O2 XDA Orbit II
* HTC Wings (MSM7200), also known as:
o HTC S730
* HTC Titan (MSM7500), also known as:
o Sprint Mogul PPC-6800
o Verizon XV6800
* HTC Vogue (MSM7500), also known as:
o HTC Touch P3050 (this is not the normal HTC Touch)
o Sprint Touch
o Verizon Touch XV6900
* HTC Libra (MSM7500), also known as:
o HTC S720
* HTC Iris (MSM7500), also known as:
o HTC S640
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did read that from the website, ... but the last update of that page was at 2008 thats 2 years ago and the Rhodium did not exist at that time .. so i was wondering wither the Touch Pro2 have the same problem
seriously? .. noone is aware of this issue?
Enhanced D3D Drivers
I know, there is a cab files supposed to increase TP2 graphics possibilities. Especially for video and games. It is a cab file. The name is:
At0mAng Enhanced D3D Drivers but I can't find it, for the moment.
Keep on searchin'.... ;-)
I'd say that every Windows Mobile HTC with a Qualcomm MSM7xxx processor has graphics driver problems. While it may not be nearly as bad on the Rhodium as it was on previous devices, all the devices still underperform. It could just be Windows Mobile, but if you put an Android device with proper GPU drivers (aka any Android device) and put it next to a Pro2 and run some kind of graphics benchmark on each, the performance difference is staggering between the two. Even the HD2 has graphics problems, and unofficial drivers had to be released to replace the under performing drivers included.
woaloo said:
I know, there is a cab files supposed to increase TP2 graphics possibilities. Especially for video and games. It is a cab file. The name is:
At0mAng Enhanced D3D Drivers but I can't find it, for the moment.
Keep on searchin'.... ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Epic!!! ... thank you, i found it, i did not know what to look for (exact keywords )
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
I'd say that every Windows Mobile HTC with a Qualcomm MSM7xxx processor has graphics driver problems. While it may not be nearly as bad on the Rhodium as it was on previous devices, all the devices still underperform. It could just be Windows Mobile, but if you put an Android device with proper GPU drivers (aka any Android device) and put it next to a Pro2 and run some kind of graphics benchmark on each, the performance difference is staggering between the two. Even the HD2 has graphics problems, and unofficial drivers had to be released to replace the under performing drivers included.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanx for the input! i guess you're right, the TP2 has this problem, .... but the Custome D3D seems to work like a charm, .. wonder wither it will have effect in the PS emulator
URL for Custom D3D Driver (for Rhodium):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=546522