Hi all, I have been following HTCclassaction etc and have done extensive googling to find out the state of an open GL driver for our Vogue (MSM 7500).
The closest hope I had is NFSFAN's roms and post's at PPCHaven.
NFSFAN, you stated you are working on this, any updates so far? Also when (not if, I greatly respect your amount of talent) you finally come up with a workable driver will you release it to the comunity as a whole as well as in your ROMS?
Thanks for the update, and thank you very much for all your work to date. It is very much appreciated.
I found this document on BREW forums (Qualacom). It is about software solutions for msm7500 chipsets regarding openGL es.
It's a little over my head but maybe someone on here can use it.
I can't upload it because it is over the forums limits. I've never used rapidshare or megaupload before but i'll try. Here is some previews of the header so you know what it's about:
3D Performance
Optimization
Angus Dorbie
Staff Engineer (3D)- Gaming Technologies Group
MSM7500 – Major Carriers FFAs NOW
MSM7500 Graphics Pipeline Overview
• Licenced integrated OpenGL® ES solution
• Hardware accelerated vertex and pixel processing
• Integrated in MSM processor
• OpenGL ES 1.0 Common profile + all major 1.1 features
• Extension: OES_vertex_buffer_object,
EGL_QUALCOMM_color_buffer, ATI_TC Compression, Texture
Combiners, Texture Crossbar, Alternative Texture
Coordinate Formats, Matrix Palette, DrawTexture, Point
Sprites
• Java JSR-184, D3D, SKT’s GIGA, HI’s V4, Superscape’s
Swerve APIs support implemented on top of OpenGL ES
pipeline
etc etc,
shows some neat graphics of what can be attained, detailed analysis of the chipset etc.
Well that was easy, here it is:
http://http://rapidshare.com/files/182666655/Prog-401_Dorbie_v05.pdf.html
Couldnt open the page. Can you try again?
Ooops, first time radipshare user mistake.
edited the link, it should work now I just tested it myself.
I reached the d/l limit so I will try in about 15 minutes. I am not a developer, but I am really interested in getting 3d workiong on our phones and am feeling inclined to learn alot and then perhpas get involved via htcclassaction.org. I'm more of an activitst than anything else! But I do really appreciate everything that people do on here and am more than happy to be a guinnea pig with my phone.
No, fully accelerated Hardware Direct3D is not possible on the Vogue. The DDI doesn't have the required calls it takes for Hardware Accelerated D3D. The closest I ever got was porting standalone OpenGL and a faster Software Accelerated D3D driver, but it is nowhere near the performance of a true Hardware D3D driver.
"The closest I ever got was porting standalone OpenGL and a faster Software Accelerated D3D driver"
That's still closer than most people have ever gotten. The only phone htcclassaction has a driver for is the Kaiser. You seem to be the only one that was able to develop this for the Vogue. The effort is appreciated, I remember when you were the only Dev interested in releasing Bell ROMS.
Any chance of releasing the 2 (your stand alone OpenGL and software driver) to the community as cab files?
Thanks again
Jason
You will need a patched XIP with a diamond wce_rex.dll and mmmap.dll. Then you will need clkregim.dll in the ROM. I can't release a community pack, because I doubt any other vogue rom that you will find other than mine has these files.
Thanks for the reply,
Guess I might have to flash again sometime soon.....Darn!!
Related
I've seen that .Net CF 3.7 doesnt have the directx ( Direct 3d) libraries and i was wondering if microsoft decided to delete them and not continue using directx with .net cf or if it's only because the 3.7 version is a beta and lacks many things.
Apart of that, i don't know what new things has 3.7 version, is there any changelog? because if there aren't important changes, i consider it may be better to continue using .net cf 3.5.
No follow up?
I'm curious if anybody has any more information on this matter. I'm currently using a slightly older version of NRGZ's EnergyROM with a Touch Pro and am unable to use Diamond Hologram because of a TypeLoadException stating that Microsoft.WindowsMobile.DirectX can not be found.
There's a chance that the rip of the unreleased .NET CF 3.7 was incomplete (though the GAC is pretty straightforward) or the pre-release state of it could also be used to rationalize missing assemblies, but if I were to take a random crack at it, I would guess that they're working on XNA for Windows CE/Mobile since it's based on CF and runs on Windows, XBox 360 and Zune it would be a logical step for Microsoft (just as they stopped supporting Managed DirectX on desktop editions), though it does seem a bit unfair to developers of existing applications since the desktop edition was not shipped with the framework, but rather with the DirectX SDK whereas this was deployed in the framework.
Is there a chance that someone could test using the 3.5 version on a 3.7 runtime? If the CLRs are compatible (and they seem to be) then it should still be able to load the assembly, and if binding works at all similar to the desktop framework we could probably just copy it into the directory of the application path, rather than GACing it.
After some searching around this is better discussed in the original CF 3.7 thread since it has been brought up. I'll repost my thoughts there and see if someone can help with experimenting.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=4060348
Not sure if this should be posted in the aforementioned thread, but it has long been rumoured that MS would phase out Direct3D by Windows Mobile 7, in favour of OpenGL and OpenGLES. Hope this helps at all.
GL
Well, I'm not so sure MS will ever officially support GL since it's a "competing" product to DirectX. In fact, to me it seems very unlikely. While they have been supporting community solutions and open source work more lately, generally Microsoft makes an effort to have developers use Microsoft technologies which in turn makes applications dependent on Microsoft and therefore users dependent on Microsoft. They have (arguably) the most powerful, useful and time-saving development tools which keeps many developers (like myself) developing applications that are inherently designed for their operating systems.
XNA, on the other hand is a Microsoft technology that is gaining a lot of traction and is directly related to the .NET Compact Framework, which is what leads me to believe they'll choose that route. With the right love and care a single XNA game can be played on PC, XBOX 360 and Zune and it seems likely that supporting the platform that .NET CF was first implemented on is only a matter of time. It's been rather surprising to many in the XNA community that MS hasn't already supported it, since their original press releases strongly indicated support for it. One thing's for sure: while there is an XNA Game Studio built on top of Visual Studio, there will probably not be any MS initiative to build a GL game studio.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/mar04/03-24xnalaunchpr.mspx
To be fair though, that doesn't necessarily mean they won't implement the Windows Mobile version of XNA using OpenGL ES, though it seems likely that the architecture is designed more toward DirectX. Still hardware manufacturers could play a huge role in this decision.
Dear all,
How is it in general with harware 3D support on HTC devices?
Are appropriate SDKs available? Either Direct3DMobile, or OpenGL? Are their drivers adapted for 3D software, expecially games?
Where can I find more information, please?
Thank you very much,
Rene
Hardware 3D support for HTC devices
Dear all,
How is it in general with harware/software 3D support on Windows Mobile HTC devices:
Are appropriate 3D SDKs available?
Is either Direct3DMobile or OpenGL supported?
Are the drivers adapted for 3D applications?
Where can I get more information on this topic?
Thank you very much,
Rene
There's already a lot of projects that handle these questions.
Here's what my good friend had to say about it:
http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...t=result&cd=1&q=graphics+acceleration&spell=1
This can't be answered in general as it depends on the chipset used in the device. Check my sig for an OpenGLES/VG test app (in the first post you'll find a link to a thread with improved 3d drivers for MSM72xx devices)
Original drivers are poor in terms of gpu support.
D3D support is msdn and OpenGLES info at khronos group.
Just search for samples/sdk. There are some around (e.g. PowerVR SDK)
Hello Heliosdev,
However, say if I want do develop 3D applicaiton for QSD8250, I need to have appropriate SDK. This SDK must be able to generate code, that will support the GPU of QSD8250.
How is it with SDK's for QSD8250 and associated video drivers, please?
Thanks.
Hello Noonski,
Thanks for info. I understand your point, but before I came here, I did not find anything specific to QSD8250 that is in HTC HD 2.
I would really need to know what is its situation with HW 3D support, OpenGH ES 2.0 and Video Driver.
So far i know that its GPU supports version 2 of OpenGL ES. But no idea if there is an SDK available and support of its driver.
Regards,
Rene
Sounds like a valid Software Problem to me.
I had first thought you where referring to the older devices.
Touch HD2 is indeed very new ground.
I hope you get the attention of some of the developers that have dealed with Graphics hardware support in the past.
Hi,
Unfortunanately there isn't yet a lot of information available out on the net regarding development using Microsoft.WindowsMobile.DirectX namespace.
I am hoping we can start a new forum section dedicated to just this? What do you guys think?
I've only been working with it for about a week now, and I am struggling to find helpful information, and am figuring out a lot of things through trial and error (note the SDK documentation is quite thin too!).
Is there anyone else on this site that is keen to collaborate and share DirectX experiences?
i'm very interested in but i failed in basics (look here) and nobody here seems something to know about that.
one year before i gained few expieriences in direct3d. its similar but not the same to develop for mobile...
did you get running the examples of d3d from the ms mobile sdk?
heggenhugo said:
did you get running the examples of d3d from the ms mobile sdk?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, all the examples (not) in the SDK worked. I put "not" in parentheses because it took me a long time to locate them as the are no longer included as part of the .Net compact framework SDKs or the DirectX compact framework.
I am working on a simple app now that will determine the hardwares capabilities, allowing developers to quickly discover which devices their apps/games will run on. But I am still only just getting used to the environment also.
could you send me please (or link) a working example? it would be enough to see how to create a d3d window. i want to develop an application that uses the g-sensor to navigate in a little 3d environment (for instance turn around a cube or sth like this).
ty
VB.Net D3DM Samples - DirectX Capabilities App
Here are all the MS provided examples. I have not tried them all, but most of them work (on my device). The emulators run them, but very very slowly.
I have also attached the ActiveX Capabilites Test.exe application I created which will show you exactly what DirectX features are available on a particular device.
It requires .Net 3.5 to be installed.
View attachment VB.zip - Vb.Net samples
View attachment 250790 - DirectX Capability Test (install to device)
A good start
Anyone looking to get started on Mobile DirectX Development, should start with the fundimentals of the Managed DirectX Runtimes.
I recommend "Managed DirectX 9 Kick Start - Graphics and Game Programming" by Tom Miller. It's a good start into the world of Managed DirectX.
Just look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu8avvF9yrg&NR=1
They didn't spend much time on the layout because I've seen other iPhone applications that looks just as nice.
What library do they use (or simular) and is it available for WM?
I found these but hopefully there are more and more for UI:
- Manila Interface SDK http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=566188
- http://beemobile4.net/
- http://www.resco.net/developer/mobileformstoolkit/features.aspx
http://silvermoon.codeplex.com/
awesome, lot of visual effect with iphone app
vua777 said:
awesome, lot of visual effect with iphone app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a link?
RAMMANN said:
http://silvermoon.codeplex.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx, i tried it immediately but it's slow. I started with VS2008 and used debug. Maybe thats the problem. Looks awesome, and for free
grrr....i hate .netcf...
google for fluid (it's on codeplex.com)
also for .net cf, but doesn't use opengl (if I'm correct)
there's no UI library for C/C++ right? So at least I hope WM 7 comes with an updated SDK....
Is that all there is?!
Now I understand why iPhone.....
ajhvdb said:
Is that all there is?!
Now I understand why iPhone.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep sadly, tho that is alls supposed to change with wm7...
Touch Control Suite
http://www.mirabyte.com/en/products/windows-mobile/touch-controls-suite-for-netcf/information.html
Well finally something with a normal price. Will investigate this Thx.
At this moment Resco seams to be the best and "priciest". Maybe someone wants to sell there Resco library because they don't use it anymore. Send me a PM.
all these .NETCF frameworks seem to me so incredible incomplete. They offer 3-4 controls and thats it. The funniest is the SDK where you can buy single controls for like $30 each.
RAMMANN said:
all these .NETCF frameworks seem to me so incredible incomplete. They offer 3-4 controls and thats it. The funniest is the SDK where you can buy single controls for like $30 each.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, isn't it amazing. How the heck does ms expect me to develop for WM???
I can create the functionallity but it still doesn't look smart. On iPhone there are a lot of useless applications but they look smart.
How will this be in android? Why doesn't MS buy up Resco and release this nice UI for free. This will create a lot of new development.
Yea, I've said this countless times before. WM only needs a decent SDK or at least a nice UI library for VS2008 and some new APIs and it would by far be the best OS.
It wouldn't be hard for MS to do this.
You can make the current controls look and function like touch controls with overrides but its a pain. You can find some good howtos at http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/uiframework.
Hopefully we get better controls with Windows Mobile 7 and the next .net cf. I wonder if we will see it when Visual Studio 2010 is released a few months from now.
ajhvdb said:
Thx, i tried it immediately but it's slow. I started with VS2008 and used debug. Maybe thats the problem. Looks awesome, and for free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Silvermoon is only slow because you are running it inside emulator. Silvermoon is OpenGL control library, and since emulator doesn't support hardware acceleration, you are using software version of OpenGL rendering engine. Try running silvermoon demo on your phone directly (if you have one of the newer phones that support hardware graphic acceleration). It's actually the fastest library available (and one of the most complete).
If you want to target all phones, not only the once with newer chips and OpenGL hardware rendering, try Fluid. It's written by the same guy that wrote Silvermoon, and it's also very nice library with tones of available controls and a very good architecture (so if it's missing control you need, you can always add your own).
Other than those two, there isn't much available that is free/cheap/good on the market.
hobbbbit said:
Silvermoon is only slow because you are running it inside emulator. Silvermoon is OpenGL control library, and since emulator doesn't support hardware acceleration, you are using software version of OpenGL rendering engine. Try running silvermoon demo on your phone directly (if you have one of the newer phones that support hardware graphic acceleration). It's actually the fastest library available (and one of the most complete).
If you want to target all phones, not only the once with newer chips and OpenGL hardware rendering, try Fluid. It's written by the same guy that wrote Silvermoon, and it's also very nice library with tones of available controls and a very good architecture (so if it's missing control you need, you can always add your own).
Other than those two, there isn't much available that is free/cheap/good on the market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx, it also slow on my Omnia II but I think it's related to openGL. Will try Fluid. It just feels strange spending so much time on the UI and still looking bad.
http://www.koushikdutta.com/search/label/WindowlessControls
This one looked ok, but I think it's dead too.
ajhvdb said:
Thx, it also slow on my Omnia II but I think it's related to openGL. Will try Fluid. It just feels strange spending so much time on the UI and still looking bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason it might be slow on Omnia II is because you might've copied libGLES_CM.dll to your phone with the rest of the application. libGLES_CM.dll is software renderer for OpenGL. So, again, no hardware acceleration. If you didn't, then it's most likely something wrong with OpenGL drivers on your Omnia.
Here's the video of how Silvermoon supposed to run with hardware acceleration working, I think it was made on Diamond 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OQwo0nt_ek
For a beta product, Silvermoon is one hell of a library!
Hey there!
I'm wondering if OpenGL games, like Quake III, can be ported just like they did for Android with Kwaak3.
Does WinPho7 support OpenGL ES in addition to DX9c?
Best Regards Mr.Sir (Gustaf)
I googled around and it appears that XNA will be the only choice besides silverlight for app/game development. So if you can somehow port an OpenGL came to XNA, then yes.
Mr.Sir said:
Hey there!
I'm wondering if OpenGL games, like Quake III, can be ported just like they did for Android with Kwaak3.
Does WinPho7 support OpenGL ES in addition to DX9c?
Best Regards Mr.Sir (Gustaf)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. It's only what you will find in XNA. There are several samples people have posted for porting on xbox 360; same code will work on the phone with VERY little changes.
So, seriously guys, no native support? I mean, when i was working at NDrive they had everything written in C++ with interfaces for each device. I doubt that any sane company will rewrite its software completly just to compete in a niche...
Even in .NET CF you COULD do some PInvokes which kinda allowed you to attempt to run a managed version of OpenGL (.NET sucked and still sucks for serious game development, obviously) which was slow as hell, but at least it was there.
So please, native support!
ei05035 said:
.NET sucked and still sucks for serious game development, obviously) which was slow as hell, but at least it was there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why it is entitled with XNA
Yup Buddy but its gud because you have to code only one time and then you can able to convert it for using on other platforms..
And by several platforms you say M$ based ones. I mean, most companies (i can give you the example of NDrive as I was there for a while) would rather code in C++ and create interfaces for specific platforms. No native code support kills it. I don't see companies renaming extensions to .cs, enabling unsafe code (pointers, etc) and giving it a good dose of whisfull thinking.
Oh and when I meant that XNA sucked for serious gaming i meant really. AAA games don't rely on that. They rely on GPU manufacters SDKs and on the good ol' DirectX SDK. This is if they don't have some housemade engine (like Crytek) similar to Shiva3D or Unity (but custom tailored).
I mean, seriously. In .NET CF 3.5, give it a go, try to natively rotate an image and resize it without manually processing the bitmap information to do so (and at the expense of CPU usage). I had to rely on DxSprites and OpenGL when I needed.
XNA is, as it was already mentioned, game-wise, a game-loop oriented tool with a few PInvokes to DirectX...
ei05035 said:
And by several platforms you say M$ based ones. I mean, most companies (i can give you the example of NDrive as I was there for a while) would rather code in C++ and create interfaces for specific platforms. No native code support kills it. I don't see companies renaming extensions to .cs, enabling unsafe code (pointers, etc) and giving it a good dose of whisfull thinking.
Oh and when I meant that XNA sucked for serious gaming i meant really. AAA games don't rely on that. They rely on GPU manufacters SDKs and on the good ol' DirectX SDK. This is if they don't have some housemade engine (like Crytek) similar to Shiva3D or Unity (but custom tailored).
I mean, seriously. In .NET CF 3.5, give it a go, try to natively rotate an image and resize it without manually processing the bitmap information to do so (and at the expense of CPU usage). I had to rely on DxSprites and OpenGL when I needed.
XNA is, as it was already mentioned, game-wise, a game-loop oriented tool with a few PInvokes to DirectX...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are so gung-ho, you could write wrappers in C++, compile the DLL and pinvoke your calls.
tyrannus said:
If you are so gung-ho, you could write wrappers in C++, compile the DLL and pinvoke your calls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! Honestly for me it is the way to go. It's not that i don't like C# or .NET, quite the contrary. I'm just sorry that they lack the portability some projects require. And for me, WP7 not having native code support is a real buzz kill. What do you think?
It does have native code support but you need Microsoft's permission to get the SDK. I'm pretty sure game companies will have it if they want to make use of the GPU as much as possible.