Develop Bugs

Windows Phone 7 will have multitasking.

I'm opening a new thread so people don't have to dig thru other threads to find this.
Leaked documents show that Windows Phone 7 will indeed have multitasking after approval by Microsoft. Appearently you will need to ask Microsoft for special permission, and as such you will need to prove your need for multitasking. I'm sure it will be limited to apps such as Pandora that show a specific need for running in the background.
http://www.wmexperts.com/leak-windows-phone-7-documents-developers

Thanks for posting this. It looks like I need to start learning silverlight which I expected would be the case.
The multitasking is annoying. I dont want to have to ask for permission to enable this. Do they plan on controlling this through the app store? If its just some hidden API's they would get leaked in minutes and everyone could use them.

Weird interpretation
From the leaked documents provided, I cannot figure out how did they come to the conclusion that developers would need to ask for permission to do multitasking. It seems that the authors of the article are not really technical and had things mixed up. OEMs and MOs will have to request access to some native APIs if Managed API and provided limited native API set is not enough for their needs, which is something totally different from processes and threads. Processes and threads, or in layman terms multitasking is business as usual. I don't see any restrictions there.

Of course the OS can multitask. That's never been a question.
The question is whether third party applications will be allowed to run in the background.
There is no word on whether this is the case, and in fact, every official statement from Microsoft currently hints to this not being the case. It seems like they're going the Apple way of not allowing third party applications to run in the background.

Did anybody read the document? There's no connection between multitasking and approval. It's not going to be done with hidden APIs that can get leaked. It's not completely clear but here's what it seems to say to me:
Anyone can write C#/Silverlight apps that use the .NET Compact Framework and install them. Hopefully this will let you do most things you want to do. The big problem would be if .NET CF 4 is missing any of the "normal" useful stuff. Personally, if I can interact with calls, texts, contacts, location services (e.g. GPS) and the internet then I'm happy.
If you want to write unmanaged (i.e. C++) code or call some extra managed APIs you'll need to get the code signed. This will probably go through a similar process to Apple's app store. This should only be required for low level stuff - drivers, etc. The wording of the doc suggests that it would only be phone carriers that are likely to be using this.
Multitasking isn't mentioned, so it's only guesswork between now and MIX10.

freyberry said:
Of course the OS can multitask. That's never been a question.
The question is whether third party applications will be allowed to run in the background.
There is no word on whether this is the case, and in fact, every official statement from Microsoft currently hints to this not being the case. It seems like they're going the Apple way of not allowing third party applications to run in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it may work more like the way Android does than the way iPhone does. Android multitasks properly, but suspends non-foreground processes. Looking at the built in calendar demo, it pops in and pops out to the same place, so it's not being restarted, merely resumed.

l3v5y said:
I think it may work more like the way Android does than the way iPhone does. Android multitasks properly, but suspends non-foreground processes. Looking at the built in calendar demo, it pops in and pops out to the same place, so it's not being restarted, merely resumed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not how multitasking on Android works. Android applications save their state when they are sent to the background, but they continue to run. They are not suspended, unless the system runs out of RAM.
If the system runs out of RAM, then the "oldest" process that's running in the background gets killed. Since it saved its state when it was sent to the background, you can reopen it and continue where you left off.
That's exactly how multitasking *should* work.

freyberry said:
That's exactly how multitasking *should* work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Isn't it the same as stated by MS that apps will be "paused" in background? Also, how is it going to help my satnav app be at the right position when I minimize the dialer in a call?

vangrieg said:
Really? Isn't it the same as stated by MS that apps will be "paused" in background? Also, how is it going to help my satnav app be at the right position when I minimize the dialer in a call?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it is not at all the same. Read my post again.

guys take a look at this.. this guy is playing music while navigating trough the phone..
http://www.wmexperts.com/wme-mwc-video-hands-no-2-windows-phone-7-series?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wmexperts+(WMExperts)&utm_content=Twitter

may i ask for this thread to list facts only?
i would love this thread not to be dragged into the debate of hints and speculations. I would say, as long as we don't have something solid let's keep the speculations at the other thread.
i have seen some videos where by mistake shows multi tasking cappabilites, and i believe as long as the cappability is there (even if locked down) we can find a way around it. but we are still in the dark, maybe Microsoft will simply say that hey developers, yes we have full multitasking but not for .net cf apps, only unmanaged code can? maybe! just to ensure that not anyone can write an app to stay in the background.
Mostly the usage of multitasking is not that high, i don't keep much apps in memory. infact alot of the users of Windows Mobile (5, 6.x.x) do set their phones to close the app on X click. and most of us (including me) didn't want to run multiple apps in the background, actually that's why HTC built the Taskmanager into their ROMS. even SonyEricsson.
Of course there are exceptions for that, i would love for my Navigation app to stay in the background while my friend is playing on the phone.
the main point is we don't have any clue yet, if we get any info that is official/confirmed leak then we can get either UPSET or releafed
take it easy mates.

young blade said:
guys take a look at this.. this guy is playing music while navigating trough the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Music (Zune) is not a 3rd party app.

pilgrim011 said:
Music (Zune) is not a 3rd party app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
okay so its about 3th party apps in running in the background.
I'm sure it will be possible.. whats the point of not doing it and having 500+ ram in the device..
thats like tuning a car up to 999 of horse power and restricting it down to 300.

young blade said:
okay so its about 3th party apps in running in the background.
I'm sure it will be possible.. whats the point of not doing it and having 500+ ram in the device..
thats like tuning a car up to 999 of horse power and restricting it down to 300.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't be so sure. Unfortunately, Microsoft is heading Apple's path, the dark side...

Honestly if they make is so you have to actually program it to run the background instead of natively making everything work in the background, I beleive that would be a good thing. I have to pull the task manager up to close every app after I open it because I don't really need it in the background. For example when I use a calculator to compute something why does it need to stay up after I'm done with the calculation?
On the otherhand, If they are making it so you have to get direct permission from Microsoft and not just from the OS to run in the background that probably means they want some more money or something outta the deal and I don't think thats the best way to go. Phone these days usually have a good amount of ram to be able to run task in the background and they shouldn't underpower the device if it can handle it.

I don't think that iPhone is the way to the dark side.... they are able to make "dumb users" (I don't think you are dumb, it's a way to put it into), a way to make what they want with their device. As a higher user, you know how to manage properly a system unmanaged because you know to play properly with the system, resources, and more over, but some people just has problems knowing how to open a file...
Really, the iPhone way is bring the IT technologies to people that not usually knows or likes the IT, and use them because they must, or they like the services but not the tech itself.
I belive that maybe WP7S has become so iPhone, and we may want to drop it, but really, the human history has ever been the same. It's not about how good or how many features has a device/technology/thing, it's about how many people use it in daily life. Try to think about a space travel agency, the people will believe in space travels once people become able to go to the moon by themselves, not because the NASA did it. And no matter that NASA was able to take a "car" for the astronauts and an space agency only can bring you an your package, it just doesn't matter.

Yes, it will indeed multitask for the native apps at least. In the presentation, Joe goes to a maps app, then goes right back to the calendar app where he was. Looks like the iPhone push stuff.

Kloc said:
Honestly if they make is so you have to actually program it to run the background instead of natively making everything work in the background, I beleive that would be a good thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be the best thing they could do. That's how it *should* work.

yes, not all apps require to be able to run in the background. things like calculator for example, i hate killing it using task manager.
things like sending sms or email, when I hit the send button and close the gui, the msg should be sent to the background service and really close remove the gui interface from the memory. i hate killing tmail.exe.
and there are a lot more examples why current winmo multitasking is not right. tweaks required just to be able to completely close app like htc album, opera, etc.
i am glad that finally microsoft will address this seriously. i am not surprise that ability to run in the background will be controlled by them. it is still better being controlled rather than not allowed at all (like Apple iPhone?).
freyberry said:
That would be the best thing they could do. That's how it *should* work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Careful, careful....!!
You don't know HOW they're going to adress the issue. If they completely forbid multitasking, like Apple, then things will get a LOT WORSE than they are now.
I agree that not every application has to run in the background. But some MUST run in the background and it would be a huge failure if they didn't allow third party developers to use multitasking at all, like Apple.
Multitasking for each and every application, like on WM6.5, is still a lot better than no multitasking at all!!

Programs running in the background - Even at startup - Why why why???

Something that I'm coming to terms with, with the Android OS and HTC. It's feeling a bit like my desktop computer.
Obviously pros and cons.
But the irritating thing is that, unlike my desktop, you don't really have an option to exit most apps. Why? I love Android because it's very customisable. But why is there not the option to leave it in the background OR close it completely? I'm not an Apple fan, but I get the feeling that they will have a cleaner multitask/program control system. Eventually. Still won't buy one though!
Then you have the Palm WebOS that shows everyone how to multitask. And with, let's be frank, hardware that puts it (at best) middle of the smartphone pack.
Then you have startup. I've got Fring and Docs to Go (free version), and for some reason, they both startup with powering up. Fring even has an option to startup or not to startup. Maybe that's a bug. But Docs to Go? I can't even see the option. Hopefully these two are the exceptions.
But just the simple thing (I think) first. Why the hell is there not an option on every program to exit it - therefore killing it dead?! Why why why? I'm no programmer but is this really such an issue???
Fortunately there's many programmers on this great site so maybe someone can educate me.....

Cleargrey said:
But just the simple thing (I think) first. Why the hell is there not an option on every program to exit it - therefore killing it dead?! Why why why? I'm no programmer but is this really such an issue???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because the android system doesn't need to kill applications, it just takes resources from them when they are needed. You can manually kill tasks but then the resources will just be reassigned in a matter of minutes.

Which is definitely impressive.
But as some programmers I've spoken to said, it doesn't seem to work as precisely as you may want. Windows Mobile had a similar issue. It was meant to work, but didn't.
In fact, now that you mention it, I think I may do a Palm PreCentral.com task, and see how many apps I can open before I see slowdown. If I see slowdown.
This will be interesting....

Go and read at Google how to setup an android application an how the application processes work. You don't have to be a programmer, but it answers all you questions and doubts.
There was even an article somewhere that using a taskmanager and killing tasks decreases battery life. Not what you would expect, but understandable when you see how the structure works.

Cleargrey said:
Then you have startup. I've got Fring and Docs to Go (free version), and for some reason, they both startup with powering up. Fring even has an option to startup or not to startup. Maybe that's a bug. But Docs to Go? I can't even see the option. Hopefully these two are the exceptions.
Fortunately there's many programmers on this great site so maybe someone can educate me.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume that Docs to Go preloads some stuff it needs so that it won't have to load that when opening the first document. You have to see: A background task isn't something bad, as long as it's not doing anything it won't use battery either.
Same with "free" memory: if memory is "free", it's not being used. Docs to Go puts itself in the memory so it's already there when needed. You'll never have trouble with not having enough free memory to run an app, because Android takes care of that (frees memory when needed, leaves stuff in memory when there is plenyty of room to do so).

Use advanced task killer and it should kill any app, with all apps you should be able to turn it off so it doesn't automatically start when you turn on the phone, try opening the app and press menu or look into the options to turn it off

@ RaptorRVL - I would be very interested in reading that article. And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, I mean I would honestly be interested in reading it as if it's true, I need to adjust my thinking on how Android workds. I'm looking, but if you find any links, please share.
@oawalker - I know there's many arguements about task killers whether they are needed or not. I have one. But I'm not going to say it's absolutely necessary as I think I need to read more hard facts. But it sort of brings me back here.
As jm997 has said, Android OS rejiggs resources as required, so you are never left wanting. However on earlier devices, this was obviously not working to such a degree as many complained of slowdown. Hence we come to today with the arguements of do I / don't I get/need a task manager.
I have to admit, it was the first app that I got so I could see what is running natively so I know what not to trouble. But I'm a control freak, I have to know.
What I just did was to load up every app I had, 50 in total, along with the apps and widgets already running, maybe another 5-10, to see if I can see slowdown. And I watched the memory on my memory widget drop to 10%. And I gotta say, my Desire is still running as smooth as it ever was with maybe a slightest fraction of slowdown. If that.
However, 1. I have no idea what affect this has on my battery life. 2. I would still like to be able to totally close something by simply tapping exit, or purposely leave it running.
Don't get me wrong, the multitasking, as I've just mentioned, is very impressive and obviously much better than earlier versions. And Android is still a new OS that's maturing nicely. But I still gotta wonder if this is a clean way to operate or if we are heading for a bit of a Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.x mess.
Now to find those pages RaptorRVL spoke of......

Random trivia: I just put "android", "google" and "multitasking" into Google, and the top 3 hits are all about speculation about will a platform that doesn't really multitask, really multitask.
"Rumored iPhone OS multitasking would use Exposé-like feature"
"Apple iPhone vs. Google Android – Mobile Software War Between ..."
"Are the people at Google watching the iPad release? - Android Help"
Go figure. Come to your own conclusions....

If I remember correctly, in the earlier versions of Android (1.x), there was an option for developers to force programs to stay in memory. This was meant to be for programs that needed it, but unfortunally it was abused, so Google removed it as of 2.x.
The Desire runs 2.1, so it shouldn't be a problem for us anymore.
This article was written in Norwegian, but I'll post a Google translate link, as it was very good
edit:
Here is the link to the translated article:
http://translate.google.com/transla...du-avslutte-programmer-i-android/&sl=no&tl=en
Some words was translated badly, but most of it was fine.

Cleargrey said:
Random trivia: I just put "android", "google" and "multitasking" into Google, and the top 3 hits are all about speculation about will a platform that doesn't really multitask, really multitask.
"Rumored iPhone OS multitasking would use Exposé-like feature"
"Apple iPhone vs. Google Android – Mobile Software War Between ..."
"Are the people at Google watching the iPad release? - Android Help"
Go figure. Come to your own conclusions....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here you go
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
this should enlighten you about Android memory management as it did for me
good luck

That was the article I was referring to.
And for more information read this: http://developer.android.com/guide/

Thanks Zappza and irkan. Great info and very informative.
I think the bits that stuck out for me are:
"The point is to not see Android as a PC, where applications run until you stop them. It works just not the same."
"...linux will run the same regardless of if you have 20mb free memory or 200mb."
"It has been possible for software developers to implement a feature... and could therefore not be concluded automatically. Android phone will not quit the program even if there is a need for memory or CPU resources the program uses. ...As a result, so the function removed in Android 2.0."
Ok, for the next week at least, no killing tasks at all. Let's see how that goes.
I like this site. There's always people willing to school you with facts rather than abuse you with hot air.

When I turn my phone on I get all of these apps running:
Music
FM Radio
Calander
People
Documents2Go
ShopSavvy
Assistant Free
CNET scan and shop
timeriffic
3
Photos
Mail
Footprints
Google Mail
Settings
3G watchdog
Wave secure
handcet sms
messages
facebook
clock
advanced Task Killer
How can I stop this??? Surely this is taking up my battery??

Raminder1992 said:
When I turn my phone on I get all of these apps running:
Music
FM Radio
Calander
People
Documents2Go
ShopSavvy
Assistant Free
CNET scan and shop
timeriffic
3
Photos
Mail
Footprints
Google Mail
Settings
3G watchdog
Wave secure
handcet sms
messages
facebook
clock
advanced Task Killer
How can I stop this??? Surely this is taking up my battery??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if its not active or updating it is not eating the battery power, it will only take small very small memory to reside in, and even with that, when any process is inactive for along time and if Android needs memory, it will not hesitate to take it (the memory) away from that inactive process.

irkan said:
if its not active or updating it is not eating the battery power, it will only take small very small memory to reside in, and even with that, when any process is inactive for along time and if Android needs memory, it will not hesitate to take it (the memory) away from that inactive process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello, thank you for that. After reading the article you posted I was not sure if it was for all apps.
I have deleted my ATK and lets see how it goes .... because my battery life was pretty poor before!
Also when you check your battery life is there any way to get the % rather than that big bar thing split into 10 bars?

Raminder1992 said:
Hello, thank you for that. After reading the article you posted I was not sure if it was for all apps.
I have deleted my ATK and lets see how it goes .... because my battery life was pretty poor before!
Also when you check your battery life is there any way to get the % rather than that big bar thing split into 10 bars?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is a Battery widget i believe, you can download it, and it will show you a percentage of the battery, not sure of the exact name though, check in the download widgets

Now that I've read more, and thinking back to all the arguements I read about Android and task killers, and it occured to me that every post that spoke about slowdown, it was based on knowledge from Android 1.x. I'm still trying to get some slowdown (due to memory) on my unit and haven't managed it yet.
So I'm curious now, has anyone experienced slowdown on an Android 2.x device? I'm guessing much much less, if any.

Cleargrey said:
Now that I've read more, and thinking back to all the arguements I read about Android and task killers, and it occured to me that every post that spoke about slowdown, it was based on knowledge from Android 1.x. I'm still trying to get some slowdown (due to memory) on my unit and haven't managed it yet.
So I'm curious now, has anyone experienced slowdown on an Android 2.x device? I'm guessing much much less, if any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only when the FM radio freaked out and started locking my phone up, other then that no slow downs.

I'm a long time Windows "expert" and as such have become a bit paranoid about closing rather than minimising apps. When I got my first Android phone I, like a lot of other windows people, immediately installed a task killer. I soon found it a mistake though. Battery life was definitely worse and applications took longer to load. It's very difficult for people with a Windows background to accept that Android works in a different way and that, providing the application is written property, suspended apps. are not using any appreciable resources.
If windows has been written better in the first place we would never have preceived it as a problem. I am still tempted to install a task killer but I keep telling myself "this is not Windows".

File Explorer, Multitasking, and Using WP7 As A USB Device?

These are the 3 important things on my list about Windows Phone 7. I know initially these wont be available but i remember reading a while back that the emulator or something got hacked by someone here and revealed a file explorer in windows phone 7
is that any indication that there will be a means of exploring the contents of the device like we currently have on winmo?
also how feasible would it be for them to allow multitasking for apps? is that something impossible for this platform or could they actually do this with a update?
and whats the word on using the device as a usb drive like most phones out there can currently do?

deadwrong03 said:
These are the 3 important things on my list about Windows Phone 7. I know initially these wont be available but i remember reading a while back that the emulator or something got hacked by someone here and revealed a file explorer in windows phone 7
is that any indication that there will be a means of exploring the contents of the device like we currently have on winmo?
also how feasible would it be for them to allow multitasking for apps? is that something impossible for this platform or could they actually do this with a update?
and whats the word on using the device as a usb drive like most phones out there can currently do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you probably didn't follow the WP7 news....
Anyway at launch NONE of the above are available.

deadwrong03 said:
the emulator or something got hacked by someone here and revealed a file explorer in windows phone 7
is that any indication that there will be a means of exploring the contents of the device like we currently have on winmo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The file explorer in the emulator didn't really work, but was present. It won't be available in the retail version and there will be no file system access for users.
deadwrong03 said:
also how feasible would it be for them to allow multitasking for apps? is that something impossible for this platform or could they actually do this with a update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multitasking will likely be added in a future update, although I would bet that this will be some iPhone-style limited multitasking where programs won't actually run in background but rather use OS services to do what needs to be done while they're not in focus. That multitasking is needed was confirmed by MS. How it will be implemented is not known, I'm guessing here.
deadwrong03 said:
and whats the word on using the device as a usb drive like most phones out there can currently do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This won't be available. After all, it's not really useful without file system access.
So in these areas WP7 is very similar to the iPhone. To get this features, WP7 devices will need to be jailbroken (or whatever the process will be called).

Like stated above. Many if not all the things you are looking for may be missing on launch. But future updates may change this. Also don't doubt the good people at XDA-Devs not to find some sort of way around getting USB Mass Storage access as well as a File Explorer. Never Say "Never" around this place.

what about downloading through the web browser? like downloading pictures or like i do with my tp2 download music and albums will any downloading be possible at all thru the browser? since theres no file explorer now im guessing not

IM0001 said:
Also don't doubt the good people at XDA-Devs not to find some sort of way around getting USB Mass Storage access as well as a File Explorer. Never Say "Never" around this place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure we will get a USB Mass Storage mod, I just hope it isn't a long process like on the iphone.

deadwrong03 said:
what about downloading through the web browser? like downloading pictures or like i do with my tp2 download music and albums will any downloading be possible at all thru the browser?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is possible for file types supported by the OS - images, office documents. All other file types will be downloadable via webbrowser controls within third-party applications to their isolated storage areas.

vangrieg said:
Multitasking will likely be added in a future update, although I would bet that this will be some iPhone-style limited multitasking where programs won't actually run in background but rather use OS services to do what needs to be done while they're not in focus. That multitasking is needed was confirmed by MS. How it will be implemented is not known, I'm guessing here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think some kinds of multitasking are available. Read this post: bolingconsulting[dot]com/blog/?p=46

Azatey said:
I think some kinds of multitasking are available. Read this post: bolingconsulting[dot]com/blog/?p=46
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is first party multitasking for some apps e.g. Zune. No third party multitasking e.g. no Pandora.
-R

sketchy9 said:
There is first party multitasking for some apps e.g. Zune. No third party multitasking e.g. no Pandora.
-R
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but there is a iPhone esque multi-tasking. They call it tombstoning. The app gets put into a saved state when you switch apps, and when you hit the back button it gets brought back up as if you never left, but it is not running in the background, just saved. But if you go to the home/star menu and start the same app it gets started as if you never had it in the tombstone state.

the toombstoning sounds awefull for anything that uses bluetooth or gps....

Tombstoning is NOT multitasking and it is NOT an alternative.

crow26 said:
Tombstoning is NOT multitasking and it is NOT an alternative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in most cases it is the same as multi tasking with the exception of music other than zune or gps / bluetooth however i do not see a need for a gps app to be running when its not in the foreground. but any other will act the same as it would on a phone with multi tasking. i would be intrested in you posting your example that you think wp7 cant do (with the exception of what is listed above).

It's not at all the same, never. Completely different thing that has nothing to do with multitasking.

crow26 said:
It's not at all the same, never. Completely different thing that has nothing to do with multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you keep making the claim but have yet to give an example... wp7 current way of "multi task" vs andriod "multi task"
WP7:
1. App is running in the forderground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. App is frozen in the Flash memory and only some threads are still running
4. App is not running
Andriod
1. App is running in the foreground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. Just a portion of an app is running in the background as a service, the main app is deflated and residing in memory, or has been killed, leaving only the service.
4. App is not running, but is still in Memory in a deflated state until RAM runs out.
5. App is killed and not residing in memory. It may leave call to the OS to revive it periodically when conditions are met.
and here are a few examples people have explained how they use "multi task"
listen to my music
surf on the Internet,
check some addresses with Google Maps.
Also I use the camera.- wp7 possable
listening to music
open my twitter program
open a link from one of the twits
pause twitting to write a SMS - wp7 possable
The fact is there are very few areas where we do need "real multitasking", they are music+whatever and navigation+receiving a call/email. And of these, it is only navigation that seem not to be working as we all expect in first release of WP7 at least. Music, mail, phone are 1. party apps, and those will run in background when needed.
What people often think about when they say; "But I need multitasking"...they often just think about that they want to work in one app, then jump to another app, and then back to the first and continue where they left off...and that is something that is handeled by saving and loading of state. For us users...it will be as it was running in the background.
And then there are multitasking-scenario where you want for example to get notified when there is a new Twitter that mentions you, or when you airplane is delayed, and so forth...and that is also possible in WP7, if the developers use PushNotifications.
for now this is what most people really use as far as "multi task" goes...

Honestly, WM 6/6.5 style multitasking would be instant death for WP7. People who are computer-retarded (the majority of people) wouldn't be able to use it properly. When the memory fills up, the phone simply "stops working" for them and it's time to get an iPhone.
This new system makes much more sense... yes, it's not the same, but it will work just fine in the long run.

Perfect example I use my phone for navigation. I'm driving and my friend wants to surf the net while I drive. My friend takes my phone and starts browsing the net. Navigation is still running in the background giving me voice guided directions. Can WP7 do this?
What about surf the net while on a skype call?
What about Pandora while playing a game?

vetvito said:
Perfect example I use my phone for navigation. I'm driving and my friend wants to surf the net while I drive. My friend takes my phone and starts browsing the net. Navigation is still running in the background giving me voice guided directions. Can WP7 do this?
What about surf the net while on a skype call?
What about Pandora while playing a game?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as mentioned above in many post "with the exception of navigation" and not all people use pandora zune will do for current. and yes you are what most consider to be a more "advance user" however this is not the norm as most people use one app at a time.. so although its not giving you all that you are looking for at the current it will fufill 95% of the users and they way they use apps. and the most important thing is it will run alot smoother and better than android, wm 6.5, 6.1, rim... i will take this over a few things not being able to run in the background anyday!!!

"Tombstoning" is nothing. Every OS can do that.
Multitasking means running applications in the background. On WP7, nothing is running at all = NO MULTITASKING.
= no navigation in the background
= no internet radio in the background
= no downloads in the background
= no skype in the backround
= no server in the background
= ...
Is that so hard to understand?! Are you somehow retarded or what's wrong with you?

Crow26, why do you have to be rude? Politeness never hurt anyone.
After I read the review on WM7 on GSMArena, I finally made up my mind: I will never downgrade to WM7, because it's what it actually is: a downgrade.
I use navigation a lot and, obviously, I receive calls while I drive. Is my HD2 the last phone with which I can do that? Is this the end of the line?
WM7 feels like another one of those OS for people who know nothing about computers (the majority). It is such a downgrade from WM6.5 in that sense...

I Pay you $150 USD if you..

First, let me explain my frustation:
I just cant deal the idea that MS screwed WP7 so badly when it comes about multitask. I cant have a decent chat with my friends in WhatsApp because when I leave the app and someone talk to me, I cant touch the Toast Notification because it will take about 5 seconds to reload the whole app. However, I could "just" hold back button and select the app with a choppy image in the card view to instant resume (which will take me 3~5 seconds too).
So, Microsoft hates multitask or what?
What I want: a hack, a registry edit that makes opening a Toast Notification or a Tile to resume the instance and bring me the app instantly.
If you can make this really works, I pay you $150 USD. And I mean it.

mikeeam said:
First, let me explain my frustation:
I just cant deal the idea that MS screwed WP7 so badly when it comes about multitask. I cant have a decent chat with my friends in WhatsApp because when I leave the app and someone talk to me, I cant touch the Toast Notification because it will take about 5 seconds to reload the whole app. However, I could "just" hold back button and select the app with a choppy image in the card view to instant resume (which will take me 3~5 seconds too).
So, Microsoft hates multitask or what?
What I want: a hack, a registry edit that makes opening a Toast Notification or a Tile to resume the instance and bring me the app instantly.
If you can make this really works, I pay you $150 USD. And I mean it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. You can send it over to me via Paypal.
No seriously. If you are interop unlocked just disable Dehydration with any registry Editor! It sits over at HKLM\Software\Microsoft\TaskHost\DehydrateOnPause. If you set that to 0, its faster with switching

It dont work when you open the app using the notification or tiles.. just using back button too.

Microsoft hasn't done anything to multitasking, just wait for WhatsApp to release a mango update that can handle the multitasking. I don't know if you noticed, but WhatsApp is lacking a ton of features. The developers just wanted to push out a release, they will fix it eventually. You must be patient.

Diablosblizz said:
Microsoft hasn't done anything to multitasking, just wait for WhatsApp to release a mango update that can handle the multitasking. I don't know if you noticed, but WhatsApp is lacking a ton of features. The developers just wanted to push out a release, they will fix it eventually. You must be patient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, WhatsApp is mango compatible. So are Wonder Reader, and many others. Every app has this problem. Gchat, Evernote and others.
At first I thought it was developer's choice. But it is the system.

The reason for this is quite simple:
A Toast has a deep link to the app, and therefore starts a new instance of the app.
I guess they didn't think about it, that this would be a problem. Or possible there are some issues in how developers had to change their apps.
So, sorry, I don't think you can change this at the moment (easily).
As a side note: AFAIK each app can specify to NOT launch a new instance when it is started and is already running. Though I think that is an option that is not allowed for custom apps. But I'm not sure about that and if so, maybe it will change some day...

Hades32 said:
The reason for this is quite simple:
A Toast has a deep link to the app, and therefore starts a new instance of the app.
I guess they didn't think about it, that this would be a problem. Or possible there are some issues in how developers had to change their apps.
So, sorry, I don't think you can change this at the moment (easily).
As a side note: AFAIK each app can specify to NOT launch a new instance when it is started and is already running. Though I think that is an option that is not allowed for custom apps. But I'm not sure about that and if so, maybe it will change some day...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, but why not resume when opening through tiles? And deep link is optional. So reload when it's deep link and resume when its not. Makes sense, I guess.
Either way, I want it to resume whenever I open the app.
Hope someone can find a solution to this problem.

mikeeam said:
Actually, WhatsApp is mango compatible. So are Wonder Reader, and many others. Every app has this problem. Gchat, Evernote and others.
At first I thought it was developer's choice. But it is the system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I understand what you are talking about, once you click to open the application through a tile it reloads the application? To me, that makes sense. Quite frankly, I believe the iPhone behaves this way as well. You're telling the system to reload the application, so I guess if you look at it this way it could be considered a design flaw. However, I feel that this is how it should work.
I don't mean to troll or anything, but here's how I see it: If I go off and do something else on my phone and then hours later return to the application, I don't want that application to be stored into memory for hours on end, that will kill the battery.
I do agree with you entirely that toasts should resume the application, not reload it like you've stated. However, I haven't run into this issue so for me it doesn't bother me. It could be possible that it gets patched in the next update. Perhaps add a suggestion to the WP7 suggestion board.

Diablosblizz said:
I think I understand what you are talking about, once you click to open the application through a tile it reloads the application? To me, that makes sense. Quite frankly, I believe the iPhone behaves this way as well. You're telling the system to reload the application, so I guess if you look at it this way it could be considered a design flaw. However, I feel that this is how it should work.
I don't mean to troll or anything, but here's how I see it: If I go off and do something else on my phone and then hours later return to the application, I don't want that application to be stored into memory for hours on end, that will kill the battery.
I do agree with you entirely that toasts should resume the application, not reload it like you've stated. However, I haven't run into this issue so for me it doesn't bother me. It could be possible that it gets patched in the next update. Perhaps add a suggestion to the WP7 suggestion board.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is, the next update should happen 5~6 months from now. If they change it, wouldnt be in a minor patch.
I understand your point, but hey, not hours after, maybe it could have a time limit to stay on memory. Like.. 30 minutes without using it, the OS kills the app. The only thing the OS is killing right now is me.
Not that I want one iPhone, but since you mentioned, iPhone resumes the app. Doesnt matter if you use the fast switch or the app icon to launch it. It just kill the app when you close it on fast switch menu.

This is the biggest issue by far in Windows Phone! The multitasking is extremely confusing.
I tried to explain it here: http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...285744-change-or-fix-the-back-button-concept-
but couldn't explain it really well.
Please, someone make a detailed suggestion of this on Windows Phone Uservoice (http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions) !
You will get 3 votes from me.

I wonder if Resumable XAP works for this application...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1136330

singularityduo said:
This is the biggest issue by far in Windows Phone! The multitasking is extremely confusing.
I tried to explain it here: http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...285744-change-or-fix-the-back-button-concept-
but couldn't explain it really well.
Please, someone make a detailed suggestion of this on Windows Phone Uservoice (http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions) !
You will get 3 votes from me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not confusing. I understand it very well. It just works when you use the back button. If you dont use it, so you are reopening the app (when it is about third party apps).
Lumic said:
I wonder if Resumable XAP works for this application...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1136330
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It didnt work for me.

Diablosblizz said:
I don't mean to troll or anything, but here's how I see it: If I go off and do something else on my phone and then hours later return to the application, I don't want that application to be stored into memory for hours on end, that will kill the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it doesn't kill your battery. Having the app in memory uses no more battery that not having it there. Also, the app IS stored in memory for all those hours on end as long as it's within the 5-app count.
WP does NOT do third-party multitasking, it does fast-app-switching. This means the app cannot perform any work in the background, hence it's not using any more battery.
I actually agree with the OP - if the app is already loaded it should be resumed. The OS is fully capable of doing so, they've [MS] just decided to not offer it to third-party devs.

emigrating said:
I actually agree with the OP - if the app is already loaded it should be resumed. The OS is fully capable of doing so, they've [MS] just decided to not offer it to third-party devs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeap, and why not implement? I mean.. what damages would it do? The system would be faster, without lots of loadings.
The titlet of the topic remain. I still pay for someone fix this dumb decision from MS.

emigrating said:
WP does NOT do third-party multitasking, it does fast-app-switching.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Probably the most disappointing thing about Mango.

The only phone that does true multitasking is the Nokia N900 and N9. Everything runs in the background just like a PC.
But there is no Whatsapp or anything similar. N9 only has Skype, Facebook Chat, Gtalk and SIP for chatting so far. (N900 has more but still no Whatsapp)
I also got really annoyed with my Omnia 7 and Whatsapp. It takes too long to load everytime.
I think Kik was a little better however. So I've been using Kik instead. (it's better of the 2 on WP7 so far)

Originally Posted by Lumic
I wonder if Resumable XAP works for this application...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1136330
It didnt work for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was what I talked about earlier. Somewhat surprising that it doesn't work. But then I guess it is really not possible. As this is a quite fundamental change this means you probably have to wait until Tango or Apollo. Sorry.

jakiman said:
The only phone that does true multitasking is the Nokia N900 and N9. Everything runs in the background just like a PC.
But there is no Whatsapp or anything similar. N9 only has Skype, Facebook Chat, Gtalk and SIP for chatting so far. (N900 has more but still no Whatsapp)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It might be true but win 6.5 was true multitasking before Ihonne,N900...Try an HD2 and see for yourself...true task manager also...
I recently helped a friend to flash back to stock his HD2, I wonder how come for a pair on new shoes Microsoft had to learn how to walk again, ups I meant they are learning how to stand up-walking later, it seems...

You could try this;
Resumable XAP Tool v0.1 Release
I would think you could take that method to edit an already installed app to do it. With a file explorer, browse to the installation directory & find the file, "WMAppManifest.xml." Copy it out to your PC & edit it. Find the line, "<DefaultTask Name="_default" NavigationPage="PivotPage.xaml" />" & add "ActivationPolicy="Resume"" to it so it looks like this, "<DefaultTask Name="_default" NavigationPage="PivotPage.xaml" ActivationPolicy="Resume"/>." Now copy it back into the installation folder of your device & reboot. See if that works.

drkfngthdragnlrd said:
You could try this;
Resumable XAP Tool v0.1 Release
I would think you could take that method to edit an already installed app to do it. With a file explorer, browse to the installation directory & find the file, "WMAppManifest.xml." Copy it out to your PC & edit it. Find the line, "<DefaultTask Name="_default" NavigationPage="PivotPage.xaml" />" & add "ActivationPolicy="Resume"" to it so it looks like this, "<DefaultTask Name="_default" NavigationPage="PivotPage.xaml" ActivationPolicy="Resume"/>." Now copy it back into the installation folder of your device & reboot. See if that works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No lucky here. Frustating.

[Q] Is XDA a memory hog?

After a spirited browsing session here at XDA -- peaking at about 15 tabs and 50 pages -- I find that my browser will permanently increase its memory footprint by 100-300 MB. Even once I close all the XDA tabs, that memory is not freed up until I restart the browser.
I have observed this behavior for years, and always with various versions of my main browser: Opera. This site has many great features, and loads fast, but it would still be nice if this wasn't happening.
Have you guys observed the same heavy RAM usage and/or leak?
My system:
Win 7
i7 920
6 GB DDR3

Actually yes I just did with firefox. In the past I never had this problem actually but lately I only use chrome for xda because firefox always gets stuck.

Firefox is not as bad as ie. But when I load up any page from xda in ie, it is so intensive on my processor that it makes the cpu fan ramp up. Then when I scroll, it is scroll and wait for the page to actually scroll and stop before I can click on anything. It is that intensive on system resources.

well an i7 920 and 6gb of ram is a pretty beastly pc, you don't need a 8-core cpu and 16 gigs (like i have) to surf a forum

It is very normal. Because web is powerful today.
For example, Firefox use a lot of memory: 10 tabs = 250MB memory
Firefox 11 improved memory usage, but still high.
All browsers has the same issue.
Maybe it the time to upgrade your memory. Memory is very cheap today

I am NOT upgrading my pc because one website is not acting right

Obvious, but have you tried clearing cache & temp internet files? There must be a reason because I've got a 2.4 AMD (dual core) with 4GB RAM and I never have the problem. I use Chrome 100% of the time though, so can't vouch for any of the other browsers.

I'm afraid I can't help you with opera but you can try firefox with memoryfox addon. It actively frees memory blocks. Visit www browsermemory.com
One or two times I noticed the problem too but for me it wasn't such a problem to deal with it. I had a quick look on the source of the site and it looks okay, the only active contents are ajax and javascripts, rest is just text, static images & css. The hog might be one of the ajax/javascripts.

I also use Opera (still prefer Firefox though ) and according to the task manager: Memory usage = 16k (average) & Virtual memory = 151k (average) when browsing XDA alone (1 tab).

85gallon said:
I am NOT upgrading my pc because one website is not acting right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a mighty presumptuous statement. Regardless of if I'm browsing XDA or not, at any of the forums I frequent and if I have many tabs open eventually my Browser begins to Hog my memory, Such is the way the web is.

Do any of the people with the issue use ad-blockers? Ads are generally the culprit with things like this as the site has no (or little) control over what content they load. Also, having 50 flash files playing on separate tabs will definitely have an impact. As tigermess said, the site is mostly just text and images so it's next to nothing.
That would explain why I don't have the issue as I don't have ads turned on.

JimmyMcGee said:
That's a mighty presumptuous statement. Regardless of if I'm browsing XDA or not, at any of the forums I frequent and if I have many tabs open eventually my Browser begins to Hog my memory, Such is the way the web is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are the one making the presumptuous statement. I don't use tabs. I usually have one site open at a time. In the rare instance I have more than one site open, it is in a separate browser session. And that is rare. I have deleted cache and temp . I don't run an ad blocker on my pc.
I am actually running on a fresh (but updated) restore of my hard drive from factory condition. I restored last week. It was doing it before and it's still acting the same way. Both in ie and ff. The only common thread is Eset smart security. I have not disabled to test that. I am leary of doing that here with all of the trash that loads with the ads here.
But when you are browsing fine, and you browse to this web site and your computer slows to a crawl, and the only thing open is this site, then that, sir, is not presumptuous!

Archer said:
Do any of the people with the issue use ad-blockers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't, but I also don't have Flash installed\enabled in Opera.

85gallon said:
You are the one making the presumptuous statement. I don't use tabs. I usually have one site open at a time. In the rare instance I have more than one site open, it is in a separate browser session. And that is rare. I have deleted cache and temp . I don't run an ad blocker on my pc.
I am actually running on a fresh (but updated) restore of my hard drive from factory condition. I restored last week. It was doing it before and it's still acting the same way. Both in ie and ff. The only common thread is Eset smart security. I have not disabled to test that. I am leary of doing that here with all of the trash that loads with the ads here.
But when you are browsing fine, and you browse to this web site and your computer slows to a crawl, and the only thing open is this site, then that, sir, is not presumptuous!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough.
And not to sound like a jerk, but here are your options.
1) Deal with it
B) Don't come to XDA.
In all honesty I could see that you are experiencing problems, but XDA is built on vbulletin. Which while vbulletin scales pretty good to work with XDA, its still a crappy program. Then again the sheer amount of activity on XDA precludes us from using other Forum software, and makes our site run slow on some peoples set ups.

XDA is the site that uses less memory on my PC and i don't have a super machine.. unlike is a pc of the stone age..
I use chrome with adblock plus, my pc is a celeron D 360 with 768 mb of RAM..
What & where's the problem?? I recommend you use an ad blocker and/or another browser..
Flash isn't friendly with any cpu and ram..

JimmyMcGee said:
1) Deal with it
B) Don't come to XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iii) Discuss it. Maybe someone with some insight on the back-end of XDA will chime in with advice. Maybe they don't even know some people have a problem and they will be able to make a change on their side. Poor performance and/or ad blocking aren't in anyone's best interest.
Other vbulletin forums don't gobble memory for me. I think that XDA is unlike the average vbulletin forum.

My computer is a single core hyperthreading 3.21GHz <--- (basically a wannabe duo core) with 1gb ram. I use chrome, with adblocker and my browser NEVER lags or anything, even with MANY XDA pages open...

mhhd said:
..snip.. I think that XDA is unlike the average vbulletin forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There in is the rub. XDA is a very large forum, we have a full time person, optimizing and maintaining our servers, as I'm sure you can imagine. SO I will hit him up and see if he says anything. But we have discussed this before, in the year or more have upgraded many of our servers to improve the speed.
So while I may have seemed like a jerk, its not because I don't care, its because we are constantly trying to improve the performance of XDA. However, with the numerous different computer setups and internet connections, not everyone is going to have a blazing fast experience, some of that it outwith our control.

Thank you. All we ask is to have your person look into it.
I will do what I can from my end. I don't think it is a vbulletin problem. That and server issues would only account for slow page loads. They wouldn't account for bringing a computer to its knees. When the page loads fully and I scroll my mouse, there is a 5-10 second lag before the page actually scrolls.
I like xda and I don't want to use ad blockers if that is the culprit as that it's how you survive and pay the bills. But there is some bad code somewhere.
I saw a few add blockers that will let you select what adds to disable. Maybe I can narrow it down some.
All we are asking is to look into and not a canned like it or leave it option.

JimmyMcGee said:
...we are constantly trying to improve the performance of XDA....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It shows. For me, the XDA experience is great in all the most important ways: speed, features, and community. I guess complaining about memory usage is a bit of a nit pick =P