I got an HD at the moment. It's a great device, and the HD2 looks so promising.
BUT, I miss the keyboard of my Hermes whenever I want to answer an email or an SMS. Touch screens are not satisfactory in that aspect.
Therefore, my next choice will be a device with an integrated keyboard, and I start imagining a TouchPro-like, with the same specs like the HD2 (such as 1ghz proc).
Has anyone heard of this dream device coming up in the market soon? Given HTC announced an available upgrade to WM 6.5 for the "old" devices, I fear they plan to delay the release of a new one.
Thanks for your feedback and thoughts.
HTC Leo, add a keyboard= perfect device. Im sure they will release something like it soon.
And out this month as well apparently!
http://www.htc.com/uk/press_product_info.aspx?p_id=297
Good job there's no keyboard, or it might come close to the TP2....
iceman4357 said:
HTC Leo, add a keyboard= perfect device. Im sure they will release something like it soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't get your hopes up, if I were you. I suspect a Leo with a hardware keyboard would probably be too bulky and heavy for people to buy it; even without a keyboard the Leo weighs 157g. Think how much thicker and heavier the TP2 is than the TD2 (or even the Touch HD). I'm sure there will eventually be a Touch Pro3 (probably at least as much smaller than the Leo as the TP2 is smaller than the Touch HD, and maybe more so). But the HD2 came out a year after the original Touch HD, and I suspect we won't see a TP3 until a year after the TP2 was originally released - that is, not till next May.
The perfect succesor
Have a look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=556749
I´m sure HTC has something to surprise us, if not Toshiba will eat some part of the market (dedicated to hardware keyboard users like you and me)
Hey OP, please add a poll to this thread and let´s see what users think!
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Prerna said:
I got an HD at the moment. It's a great device, and the HD2 looks so promising.
BUT, I miss the keyboard of my Hermes whenever I want to answer an email or an SMS. Touch screens are not satisfactory in that aspect.
Therefore, my next choice will be a device with an integrated keyboard, and I start imagining a TouchPro-like, with the same specs like the HD2 (such as 1ghz proc).
Has anyone heard of this dream device coming up in the market soon? Given HTC announced an available upgrade to WM 6.5 for the "old" devices, I fear they plan to delay the release of a new one.
Thanks for your feedback and thoughts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 virtual keyboard should be quite good because the screen will be 4.3" and capacitive.
I think it's too early to start talking about a successor.
I just bought my Touch Pro 2.
Haha. I guess I just have to start facing the inevitable. I doubt the Touch Pro2 will be able to run Windows Mobile 7, so I guess I'll have to upgrade anyways.
HelloWorld3 said:
I think it's too early to start talking about a successor.
I just bought my Touch Pro 2.
Haha. I guess I just have to start facing the inevitable. I doubt the Touch Pro2 will be able to run Windows Mobile 7, so I guess I'll have to upgrade anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM7 should run fine on it too, WM7 is just an update like 6.5.
WM8 is a complete OS redesign from the ground up so WM8 will be a little harder to get working on the Rhodium, doesn't mean it can't be done though.
beast0898 said:
WM7 should run fine on it too, WM7 is just an update like 6.5.
WM8 is a complete OS redesign from the ground up so WM8 will be a little harder to get working on the Rhodium, doesn't mean it can't be done though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A guy from HTC told me yesterday Windows 7 wouldn't run on the TP2 - but I guess its some way off being able to confirm this yet....
Perhaps officially not but I´m sure a great Chef form XDA will manage to port wm7 or even wm8 to TP2!!
I have an Universal 2005 old and HTC told me that I couldn´t update to wm6 and now I´m using wm6.5 cooked ROM!!
Thanks to XDA our devices can extend it´s modernity period!!!!
Wait until closer to the release of 7. If you ask the HTC reps if you can run 6.5 on a Kaiser they will tell you that it can not.
orb3000 said:
Perhaps officially not but I´m sure a great Chef form XDA will manage to port wm7 or even wm8 to TP2!!
I have an Universal 2005 old and HTC told me that I couldn´t update to wm6.1 and now I´m using wm6.5 cooked ROM!!
Thanks to XDA our devices can extend it´s modernity period!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an Apache that HTC said couldn't be upgraded to 6.0 (started on 5.0), and there's at least one 6.5 ROM for it now.
orb3000 said:
Hey OP, please add a poll to this thread and let´s see what users think!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, why not. And what devices do you see as eligible in that list?
Let's collect various announced models, and I'll add them in a poll.
Now I can think on:
Toshiba K01 and L01
And this Intel:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4692316&postcount=13
Let´s see hoy many you get from diferent users and then you decide the best ones for the poll!
Cheers,
woah that intel one looks purty ;-P
beast0898 said:
WM7 should run fine on it too, WM7 is just an update like 6.5.
WM8 is a complete OS redesign from the ground up so WM8 will be a little harder to get working on the Rhodium, doesn't mean it can't be done though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM 7 is a complete redo of Windows Mobile. It is nothing like WM6.5. It is based on WIN CE7 and WM 6.5 is based off of Win CE 5.2...
dwizzy130
i didn't even know there's Win 7 roms (let alone 8's) floating around!
jalyst said:
i didn't even know there's Win 7 roms (let alone 8's) floating around!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There aren't. And WM8 has never even been discussed yet.
dwizzy130
sounds more realistic
Expect the "touch pro 3" to follow the queue that HTC established last year. The facts are:
-HTC staggers the HD and Diamond/Pro flagship releases on fall/spring announcements.
-The HD series is cutting edge and expensive for this. The Diamond series is a more affordable, mainstream version of the HD line.
-The next generation of the Diamond (for now we could just refer to it as the diamond 3) will have the same processor and capacitive screen as the HD2. Just expect the screen size to be smaller and the design philosophy to be different than that of the HD2. Bye Bye zoom bar. I would not doubt the intro of an 8 megapixel camera either.
-The next generation of the Touch Pro should have the same specs as the HD2 + a keyboard and a smaller screen than the HD2. Also expect further innovations for business-centric users. (Example, with the TP2's innovation was its awesome speakerphone)
Companies flagship philosophies usually last for 3 years. Expect the Diamond and Touch Pro branding to stick around for next spring.
Lastly, don't expect WinMo 7 on next year's Touch pro 3 or diamond 3.
I would not doubt that HTC would be a partner with Microsoft that will introduce one of the first WinMo7 phones though. The first phone will not likely have a Sense interface. (Just as how HTC didn't skin the new operating system, Android, until it released the Hero)
Related
Hi all ass google told me, there will be an unofficial update for hd2 but they still have problems with the grafic driver.
I may buy an Hd2 and i want to know your opinion about the graphic bug and if the Hd2 has enough sufficient hardware; 1Ghz cpu is MINIMUM requierement and in the video in youtube the os works really slow.
Thx
wait until its ready for the HD2 before you buy 1, because its no guarantee that it will work & if it does who knows if it will be able to download things from the marketplace
as far as graphic drivers if those arent up to par the whole UI will be pointless (laggy & choppy) to many unknowns to spend that much on a phone imo
I talked to HTC and T-mobile they expect the update mid to late june around the same time the Iphone 4g will be droppin...
sorry to say but they just fed you donkey balls =)
the only thing I have seen or even heard/downloaded is a new rom from htc and its still 6.5
it isn't 7 =/
Officially microsoft has repeatedly stated that no device will get the wp7 upgrade sadly...so take it as it were but that's the official word
Thx guys but with unofficial update i mean the russian guys who could get wp7 working on the hd2
domineus said:
sorry to say but they just fed you donkey balls =)
the only thing I have seen or even heard/downloaded is a new rom from htc and its still 6.5
it isn't 7 =/
Officially microsoft has repeatedly stated that no device will get the wp7 upgrade sadly...so take it as it were but that's the official word
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can u find the official microsoft statement and give s a link here??
well..I found this:
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Cue the sad trombone, folks. If you were waiting around with your Windows Mobile 6.5 device with hopes that Microsoft would one day bless it with a new chance at life in the form of Windows Phone 7, it’s time to move on.
APC Magazine just got the full spiel from Microsoft themselves: Windows Mobile 6.5 devices won’t be upgradable to Windows Phone 7 series. (You hear that? Five hundred XDA hackers just scoffed and said “Yeah, we’ll see about that.”)
Why? Standards. Microsoft has a very, very, almost ridiculously strict set of hardware guidelines that they want manufacturing partners to follow when building Windows Phone 7 Series handsets — and for the most part, old handsets just don’t fit the bill. They either lack one of the three mandatory keys (search, back, and Windows key), or — get this — they have too many keys.
A while back, a shot of the HTC HD2 allegedly running Windows Phone 7 Series hit the net. We were quick to debunk it here, with our reasoning being that the HD2 lacked the mandatory search key. Sure enough: Microsoft’s GM of Mobile Communications in the Asia-Pacific, Natasha Kwan, says the HD2 won’t be getting the upgrade “because it doesn’t have the three buttons”.
Of course, this just means that they won’t be getting the upgrade treatment from Microsoft. As we mentioned above, there’s probably a mighty army of hackers just waiting to get their hands on Windows Phone ROMs for the sake of down-porting it to older handsets; if it’s feasible, it’ll probably happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/03/01/windows-mobile-6-5-upgrade-windows-phone-7/
daam..now i'm becoming really the anti-microsoft..
and I never thought I would say that..not even after windows ME and Vista on pc..
how can they do this to us???
So they say just because there aint no search button..and there r to mush other buttons our phones wont get WP 7?
SO that means we (all HD2 users)just got f****d???dam..I spent alotta money not to change my phone in couple of month..since WM 6.5 is totally dead..
MS will change their mind
When all of us move to Android or stay with our HD2 another year at least, and many will buy the new iPhone, MS will realize what a fatal market research it is to force phone makers to a specific look (or buttons).
I am also reading they will not allow a layer of extra GUI like HTC sense to run on it, and want consistent look to all phones, regardless who is the maker. Unless they come up with an amazing GUI and themes , they can forget about me having WM7. I am more than happy with WM6.5 and HTC sense..
__________________
HTC HD 2
Energy ROM(May 4th)
BigE said:
When all of us move to Android or stay with our HD2 another year at least, and many will buy the new iPhone, MS will realize what a fatal market research it is to force phone makers to a specific look (or buttons).
I am also reading they will not allow a layer of extra GUI like HTC sense to run on it, and want consistent look to all phones, regardless who is the maker. Unless they come up with an amazing GUI and themes , they can forget about me having WM7. I am more than happy with WM6.5 and HTC sense..
__________________
HTC HD 2
Energy ROM(May 4th)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I abhor statements like this from the above poster
MS will realize the error of their ways. SURPRISE! Several users that were once wm have already moved to android and apple since 2007. Hence the campaign to revitalize the operating system. Its already been happening and if you think it can get worse for microsoft mobile after announcing wp7 to which many have said it is impressive, you are deluding yourself.
Fact remains
Google looks like vomit before htc sense, people bought google in droves. Apple has shiny buttons, people bought it in droves. I fail to see your logic from an economic standpoint beyond baseless fanboyism (dont misunderstand I am a die hard windows mobile faithful as well). People somehow buy seemingly restricted crap because of how it is marketed. Time and time again this has been proven...
so what you don't buy wp7 device...and if 100 people buy it over you, no one is really going to care if you don't buy it =)
imauser said:
can u find the official microsoft statement and give s a link here??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding? The internet is full of official Microsoft statements. Just a simple Google search will very likely link you to all of those sites.
Max_Terrible said:
Are you kidding? The internet is full of official Microsoft statements. Just a simple Google search will very likely link you to all of those sites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually u should read my post below this one..
imauser said:
actually u should read my post below this one..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry man. Sometimes I tend to just read posts and not check whom made the post. My bad
Max_Terrible said:
Sorry man. Sometimes I tend to just read posts and not check whom made the post. My bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats alright friend
but the thing is really frustrating that MS does this to its loyal clients..
plus they said they do it to offer a better experience of using WP7..this is dam ridicules..I mean alright..for better exp new phones based on WP7 should have only 3 buttons..but Y it should mean that sum recent WM 6.5 phone be out of game..
personally Im cool with WM..this is a great OS(especially on Leo)..the only problem..that we aint gettin no new content(the most important for me is decent games)..
I *think* i read somewhere that MS was going to use both OS's. 7 for the ooooo and aahhh factor and 6.5 for the more business oriented side of it because the 7 series supposedly won't run any application from the previous generation.
Waiting game.
yes, that IS what they SAID, but their actions proved otherwise IMHO when they removed smart-device development from VS2010.
This is like them saying "we still support windows XP for the business user but have decided to withdraw XP-compatible app development from all of our coding products"
So I'm curious. I keep hearing that Microsoft made the announcement that the HD2 won't be getting WP7 upgrades, but does that mean that xda developers can't hack the ROM to work with WP7? I guess my question is whether the HD2 meets the minimum system requirements of WP7. The ones that I saw only left a few things in question.
For example, I know that the HD2 is multi-touch capable but the WP7 requirements stated that it needed to be capable of four simultaneous points of contact. Can the HD2 do more than two?
Also, the WP7 requirements spoke of something like 8GB of a storage capacity, which even the US version only has 1GB. Does the MicroSD not count?
travis.garrison said:
So I'm curious. I keep hearing that Microsoft made the announcement that the HD2 won't be getting WP7 upgrades, but does that mean that xda developers can't hack the ROM to work with WP7? I guess my question is whether the HD2 meets the minimum system requirements of WP7. The ones that I saw only left a few things in question.
For example, I know that the HD2 is multi-touch capable but the WP7 requirements stated that it needed to be capable of four simultaneous points of contact. Can the HD2 do more than two?
Also, the WP7 requirements spoke of something like 8GB of a storage capacity, which even the US version only has 1GB. Does the MicroSD not count?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dun worry, the chefs at XDA are notorious for making ROMs not made for that particular device.
travis.garrison said:
I know that the HD2 is multi-touch capable but the WP7 requirements stated that it needed to be capable of four simultaneous points of contact. Can the HD2 do more than two?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know this 100% for sure, but AFAIK the screen on the HD2 is capable of true multi-touch, as in - as many fingers as you can fit on it. The reason it's only currently capable of 2 point touch is because there aren't drivers available to handle more. The drivers that are currently available were adapated from the HTC drivers, which don't handle full multi-touch - just 2 point touch.
you can donate for WP7 porting for HD2 if you want:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=684346
There is one definitive reason, and one stupid reason the HD 2 won't be getting Windows Phone 7.
And it won't get it, officially. If Da_G manages to do it (and I have full faith in him that if it's possible, he'll make it so), it'll still be buggy as hell.
The Stupid = Too many buttons.
Yeah, it's bad. But MS has made a commitment to be standardized across it's platform, and I can't knock that. That's a really good idea. And besides, HTC has shown time and time again that it would rather just release a new phone with upgraded software, than stick to a device and provide it regular updates.
The Realistic = No hardware scaler on the graphics board.
One of the key ways that the Xbox and the WinPhone7 are going to be able to play the same games is by utilitzing a hardware scaler instead of processing the resolution difference sperately. I doubt the HD2 has one of those.
Since I'm a new user I can't post a link but if you go to Forbes' website and click on the velocity blog you'll see an article near the bottom about HTC porting over sense for WP7.
I know that they can't put their own UI on top but they are looking into using the live tiles to be able to accomplish the same goal.
I'm thinking most likely in the form of additional live tiles and colors.
Edit: Here's some of the article so you don't have to go searching around the web.
Microsoft's February announcement that it would exert more control over the phones that use its upcoming mobile software, Windows Phone 7, would seem to be a challenge for HTC. After all, the Taiwan-based smartphone maker has made a name out of layering inventive software on top of other companies' mobile platforms.
But HTC says its custom software, which it calls "Sense", will live on, even on Windows phones. Drew Bamford, who heads HTC's user experience design team, tells Forbes the manufacturer is applying Sense to its first Windows Phone 7 devices, which are expected to launch in October.
"Microsoft has taken firmer control of the core experience [in Windows Phone 7], but we can still innovate," says Bamford. The future version of Sense, he adds, won't look the way it does on current Windows Mobile (6.5) phones, where it basically replaces all the core applications and is fully integrated into the phone.
Nevertheless, HTC is optimistic about the Windows Phone 7 launch, according to Bamford. "We won't be able to replace as much of the core Windows Phone experience, but we will augment it," he says..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts too. OEMs are limited to six pre-installed applications. So we'll most likely see something like the mock up done in another thread here. We might see 2 single tile apps and 2 double tile apps that you could go into and change settings to make it look and feel like you want.
It's definately something I had anticipated that they might try to do but it's always nice to get some comfirmation on the subject.
I may have to think twice about possibly getting an htc phone in october. I dont want added doo-dads and bloated doo-hickies. If they do try to port their own sense experience, I hope they can be uninstalled or at least deactivated completely!
daniel-t said:
I may have to think twice about possibly getting an htc phone in october. I dont want added doo-dads and bloated doo-hickies. If they do try to port their own sense experience, I hope they can be uninstalled or at least deactivated completely!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anything and everything installed by the OEM/carrier can be uninstalled.
RustyGrom said:
Anything and everything installed by the OEM/carrier can be uninstalled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OEMs are limited to 6 apps of limited size. The apps that the OEMs create for the phones are also limited to the same restrictions independent developers are. This includes performance. They aren't allowed to bog down the OS with bloatware.
Bengal34 said:
OEMs are limited to 6 apps of limited size. The apps that the OEMs create for the phones are also limited to the same restrictions independent developers are. This includes performance. They aren't allowed to bog down the OS with bloatware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just for the sake of full disclosure, they do get access to some other APIs and integration opportunities that the rest of us don't.
RustyGrom said:
Just for the sake of full disclosure, they do get access to some other APIs and integration opportunities that the rest of us don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That, I do not know. My guess is that they will considering that they are assigned Microsoft employees to help them make applications. But I don't think we'll know for sure until after they launch.
It may look something like this
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I'm eager to see what HTC has up there sleeves.
All they can add are additional apps, so I wouldn't be worried about fragmentation at all. The main OS will not have Sense UI.
It is on Windows Phone Thoughts posted today! There is a link to Engadgets brief story as well...
I hope this will be good!
I can't wait to see how this will fully pan out. I'm with t-mobile and I hope microsoft brings it hard when they launch this wm7 phone. that goes also for htc with there sense.
Still, with HTCs recent epic fail on Android, I would advice against buying their phones.
If you need another reason, then be it to support the community, as HTC recently attempted to take down a custom ROM distributor.
Windcape said:
HTCs recent epic fail on Android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you referring to?
Windcape said:
Still, with HTCs recent epic fail on Android, I would advice against buying their phones.
If you need another reason, then be it to support the community, as HTC recently attempted to take down a custom ROM distributor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC makes the best Android phones. They may have sense on some of them but not all of them. Them working some sense apps/hubs into a wp7 device won't have any negative impact on performance.
Windcape must have made a typo.
Actually Android is big HTC success.
krjcook said:
It may look something like this
I'm eager to see what HTC has up there sleeves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i hate the squre look, that is the only thing pushing me away from getting a wp7 wen it comes out. i hope htc intergrates a whole ui into 1 square where it feels like replacing the square ui (kinda like spb mobile shell in its earlyer stages where you would have to click on the softkey to go in to the ui & pressing end key would take u back to the regular today screen) not that its the best idea but it could be a start
HTC cant code software to save their lives, just look around for all the issues Sense has on various WM devices, putting that on WP7 is just asking for the device to be a crappy bugfest for which people will blame MS and probably kill any positive buzz the OS may get. Just keep Sense in ANY form far, far away from WP7.
WiPhone makes no Sense
Still can't integrate! Sounds like Sense will have to be worked around with extra steps. Also, since WP7 has no file access, you won't even be able to customize Sense anyways.
As much as MS is copying the iPhone with WP7, they should just call it the WiPhone and get it over with. No integration or real multitasking for 3rd party apps (which are usually superior or made for your niche), what's that crap?!
When I'm done with my HD2 I'll be moving on to Android or webOS.
gaijin1% said:
Still can't integrate! Sounds like Sense will have to be worked around with extra steps. Also, since WP7 has no file access, you won't even be able to customize Sense anyways.
As much as MS is copying the iPhone with WP7, they should just call it the WiPhone and get it over with. No integration or real multitasking for 3rd party apps (which are usually superior or made for your niche), what's that crap?!
When I'm done with my HD2 I'll be moving on to Android or webOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much what I was thinking. I'm a big fan of HTC, but more for their HW than for the SW. Sense is "ok" at best. Think about this, if it was so great, would mods like those made by Cookie Monster be so popular? Communities like this thrive off of the customization options and the freedom. Microsoft locking it down to me feels like i'm just buying into to the masses.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not all about the whole "special snowflake" thing. I just know what I like; my money goes where I like it, not to the lesser of two evils.
I honestly see WinMo 6.5 sticking around for some time to come because of this.
Is anyone here actually excited about windows phone 7?
Don't think that i'm a "fanboy/hater" that is trying to stir up an issue.
I've been using windows MOBILE devices since 2003. My first expereince was with the i-mate jam (magician) which was rock solid. Then moved on to the i-mate k-jam (wizard). After that it was the jasjam (hermes), followed by the ATT tilt (kaiser) then the ATT fuze (raphael) and finally the ATT tilt2 (rhodium).
There have been some devices in between but these winmo phones were always my "daily drivers".
My affection towards windows mobile was how customizable they all are!
Now windows phone 7 comes along and i feel like microsoft is attempting to get into the iphone market. from all the reviews and other blogs i have read. WM7 is coming out as how the first iphone was... non-customizable and really limited/restricted!
Am i the only one that feels this way? that we've been dropped off for a consumer base that they're not even sure they're gonna get?
well I've already rounded up all the accessories for my tilt2 and ready to put it up on either the xda market page for sale or craigslist to get a dell streak (once it is actually released in the US)!
This is not a rant but more of a question.
Why are you excited about wm7?
I'm definitely excited.
It's the first new platform on market, I think it's fair to say that, for years.
Looks as quite well prepared and designed, very modern indeed.
Will be great to try this. And see how good it is.
As WM user it's quite a natural step to check this out.
Yea, it's not as customizable and hackable as WM6/5 but is WM5/6 all that customizable if you discount Hard-SPL/custom firmware? What makes people think that XDA members will not "unlock" WP7 just like we have WM6?
So yea, out of the box it's more restricted. But at least the carriers and OEMs can's ship utter crap to customers like they have been. We can then 'unlock' and add/hack as we wish. But instead of starting off with a dated and buggy OS that is missing so much of what other platforms have, we will have a clean, fast, solid base in to build on. One thing we'll need to look out for (and might become a hassle) is the update mechanism. Microsoft locked down the platform for good reasons, mainly so they could update all devices at the same time with the same OS updates. Chances are things that we add/modify will have to be re-done when MS releases updates.
So yea, don't worry about it being "locked down". It hasn't stopped the iPhone enthusiasts from having an unlocked platform. But it has provided them with a vibrant base that has a wealth of third party and consumer support.
Excited? No. neglected? Yes.
Dell streak, maybe. HP may do a WebOS tablet, and I really want that!
Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
fone_fanatic said:
Now windows phone 7 comes along and i feel like microsoft is attempting to get into the iphone market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes Windows Phone 7 is a shift from business users/very technical to a general consumer approach and I hope it does well, so MS dedicates more resources to it to deliver what's missing in a speedy manner.
Yes. But I'm also not the one who will use it from the beginning.
No c & p, no file manager, no multitask, no Flash and HTML 5 at launch - a no go. It will be miserably crippled compared to my current WM 6.5.3 unfortunately.
Waiting for it.......
doministry said:
Yes. But I'm also not the one who will use it from the beginning.
No c & p, no file manager, no multitask, no Flash and HTML 5 at launch - a no go. It will be miserably crippled compared to my current WM 6.5.3 unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same opinion. I don't really care about flash, but why not have it if needed? Also what's wrong to have the option of which apps you want to be running in the background? No filemanager? Seriously?
Well, I am not excited about wp7. I will try it of course, but I am not waiting for this.
sakisds said:
I have the same opinion. I don't really care about flash, but why not have it if needed? Also what's wrong to have the option of which apps you want to be running in the background? No filemanager? Seriously?
Well, I am not excited about wp7. I will try it of course, but I am not waiting for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had a chance to play with Android 2.1 and 2.2 lately.
Works like a treat, has all the missing features.
Full flash, file manager etc.
VERY tempting.
As for WP7 there are still great things there.
Must see it......
I will get (extremely!) excited when they (officially!) enable multitasking, file system access and sideloading and add a usable browser.
doministry said:
I've had a chance to play with Android 2.1 and 2.2 lately.
Works like a treat, has all the missing features.
Full flash, file manager etc.
VERY tempting.
As for WP7 there are still great things there.
Must see it......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having used both WP7 (LG dev device) and Android (Hero and Evo), the UI on WP7 blows away Android hands down.
Fermat said:
add a usable browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The browser is certainly usable. Yea, it's doesn't have any HTML5 support but practically no websites use HTML5 as their primary rendering.
Lots of sites use HTML5, lots of the sites I visit anyway. And the IE7/8 engine is crap.
Having used both WP7 (LG dev device) and Android (Hero and Evo), the UI on WP7 blows away Android hands down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks? Yes.
Functionality? No. Some things are better, some worse (e.g. you can't have everything you like right there on the home screen, there is quite a lot of wasted space etc.)
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vetvito said:
Excited? No. neglected? Yes.
Dell streak, maybe. HP may do a WebOS tablet, and I really want that!
Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you own a hero? why aren't you developing for it at all?
sorry to say i agree, wp7 just looks like a fail to me.
sorry to say i agree, wp7 just looks like a fail to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it looks awesome, but it is a fail (until they remove the ridiculous limitations).
I'm extremely excited. Not because of what is missing but what will be there at launch. I love zune and to combine my phone, zune, a portable xbox, and a good camera would be amazing.
RustyGrom said:
Having used both WP7 (LG dev device) and Android (Hero and Evo), the UI on WP7 blows away Android hands down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From all the videos of WP7 and Android usage,
I wouldn't use term "blowing away".
The simplicity of WP7, yes.
But it's so overwhelming to see Android doing things WP7 cannot.
'Blows away' is nonsense. It looks better, is simpler and does a lot less.
Simpler also doesn't mean easier to use. E.g. when I can access any controls with one click, that makes it easier to use.
Which UI do I prefer? I don't know. One looks better, the other is more powerful.
None of them 'blows away' the other. Both blow away the iPhone's UI.
Bengal34 said:
I'm extremely excited. Not because of what is missing but what will be there at launch. I love zune and to combine my phone, zune, a portable xbox, and a good camera would be amazing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 im in the boat with you....wp7 brings so much to the table even tho its missing some things, when i get mine im gonna enjoy it for what it has & once they add more im gonna enjoy it even more...I have never been this excited about something before, i Hope it doesnt disappoint
How is it a portable xbox?
Sent from my Hero CDMA using XDA App
vetvito said:
How is it a portable xbox?
Sent from my Hero CDMA using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's going to be an xbox portable. That's the xbox live integration is about. Microsoft even set up a mobile division of their Microsoft Gaming Studio to develop games for it. The phone will have mobile xbox games a lot like the psp that ties into xbox live. So you'll get achievements and build up your gamer score.
It'll be lacking a bit behind the PSP because it won't have a game pad but hopefully developers will take use of the landscape keyboard and give us the option of using that instead of a touch screen.
Ive seen some new features of wp7 I like but its too locked down & I prefer being able to switch my ui etc etc. My tp2 recently died out on me. I want to get the latest hardware but with my current os in the same body/form of the tp2. I wondering if its possible & how many other users feel the same as I do.
Edit:for the ones that voted "no" do u still feel the same now after purchasing ur wp7 device?
mmelo76 said:
Edited by moderation not conform to the rules of the forum.
Forum Rules said:
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just warning, next time there will be consequences
XaaR_ said:
Are you **** retar****?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'd ban you, if i were mod. people like you turned pda's into justphones for halfwits.
wm6.1/6.5 on wp7 hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it could be possible seeing ZERO difference of incoming w7 crap hardware(just old stuff with new price, i mean). methods may be problem.
Do you want an wp7 device with wm6 os
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i voted yes thinking about OLD style pda with dpad, kbd and plenty of mem onboard and xscale cpu. just as it should be like. not just screen with 2 buttons for 600$+ AND fockin w7 crap. i do not need just a dumbphone, i need PDA with phone module, y'know.
pimppoet said:
Ive seen some new features of wp7 I like but its too locked down & I prefer being able to switch my ui etc etc. My tp2 recently died out on me. I want to get the latest hardware but with my current os in the same body/form of the tp2. I wondering if its possible & how many other users feel the same as I do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HD2 had a WM6.1 ROM in development. Don't know what happened to it, but someone got WM6.1 working on the HD2. Since the new WP7 stuff is going to be similar in the hardware division, I'd say yes, there may be a slight chance of WM6.1 being made for WP7 phones.
XaaR_ said:
Are you f**** ret*****d?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The question is, are YOU fu***g re******d? If you can't answer the damn question, don't even bother posting.
I can't seem to understand why you would want WM6.5/6.1 on a Newer device. OK, I can understand 6.5, but 6.1? Just go buy the HD2 if you want Winmo 6.5, if has the same specs as the launch WP7 devices.
---Also we won't know what's possible until WP7 releases and XDA jumps on it.
Personally, not really worth repeating the words that we do not correct .... it pollutes the forum.
Let's leave that he was having a bad day, come back later and think what he did, otherwise give holidays, for him.
My answer is yes too, I prefer the old-style WM6.1 OS with some new freshy hardware
surprisingly some people voted yes.
Let me ask this question:
Do you want a new laptop made in 2010 run Windows 98SE?
krjcook said:
I can't seem to understand why you would want WM6.5/6.1 on a Newer device. OK, I can understand 6.5, but 6.1? Just go buy the HD2 if you want Winmo 6.5, if has the same specs as the launch WP7 devices.
---Also we won't know what's possible until WP7 releases and XDA jumps on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want something of the same form as the tp2 as I stated in my original post...to go over all of the wp7 shortcomings would be beating a dead horse. Im not a super power user but my tp2 worked for what I needed it for even tho it was lagging at times. I no had to problems with wm6.1 except for afew quirks such as the unread text issue which was fixed by replacing the dll.
richteralan said:
surprisingly some people voted yes.
Let me ask this question:
Do you want a new laptop made in 2010 run Windows 98SE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get what your saying but I can still do all of what I used 98 for with xp/7 such as change my background lol. I would be nice if I could dual boot wm6/7 or have an pro version of wp7 that fill my wm6 needs.
pimppoet said:
I get what your saying but I can still do all of what I used 98 for with xp/7 such as change my background lol. I would be nice if I could dual boot wm6/7 or have an pro version of wp7 that fill my wm6 needs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is very interesting.
People they tend to learn very quickly about new things at one period of time, but then they become lazier and lazier and prefer to stay with "what they already known."
This mentality is very interesting and belive it or not, artists have the same problem, too.
Most of the "missing features" will come to WP7 shortly; most likely within a year. Copy and Paste is supposedly already being worked on for the next point release which may be out before the end of the year. Also, there's a relatively major update supposedly coming along with CDMA support in the "first half" of 2011.
For other things, XDA will unlock/add them, I have no doubt. Things like file system access will likely come quite quickly. I understand that many people want an "open" device from the factory but hacking your device is hacking your device. How many of you are running the stock ROM with no system mods? The difference in an unlocked/jailbroken/modded/cooked/whatever WP7 device will just gain a few more things that came out of the box for WM6. But unlike WM6, the platform is modern and rock solid. It's extremely fast and just an overall MUCH better experience. If you can use a WP7 device and not think the overall platform is better than 6.5, I'd be amazed. So if you're willing to void your warranty to flash a WM6.x rom, why not just go the other way and flash a modded WP7 rom that adds the "missing" features?
Another thing, WM6.1 is not designed for a capacitive display. 6.5 was updated a bit to allow it and with HTC Sense it works OK but 6.1 without sense will likely be unusable on a capacitive screen.
So all-in-all, the benefits of WP7 FAR outweigh the things we're "losing" in my opinion. Will I miss tethering, copy+paste, file system access, and multitasking? Of course. But I just don't think they're a big deal and I know most of that will be remedied rather quickly if you're willing to hack/mod your phone which is the whole point of this forum. So at the end of the day, it's a win/win. If you're uneasy about it, just wait a bit and we'll find out of my predictions are accurate. Then make the call.
RustyGrom said:
Most of the "missing features" will come to WP7 shortly; most likely within a year. Copy and Paste is supposedly already being worked on for the next point release which may be out before the end of the year. Also, there's a relatively major update supposedly coming along with CDMA support in the "first half" of 2011.
For other things, XDA will unlock/add them, I have no doubt. Things like file system access will likely come quite quickly. I understand that many people want an "open" device from the factory but hacking your device is hacking your device. How many of you are running the stock ROM with no system mods? The difference in an unlocked/jailbroken/modded/cooked/whatever WP7 device will just gain a few more things that came out of the box for WM6. But unlike WM6, the platform is modern and rock solid. It's extremely fast and just an overall MUCH better experience. If you can use a WP7 device and not think the overall platform is better than 6.5, I'd be amazed. So if you're willing to void your warranty to flash a WM6.x rom, why not just go the other way and flash a modded WP7 rom that adds the "missing" features?
Another thing, WM6.1 is not designed for a capacitive display. 6.5 was updated a bit to allow it and with HTC Sense it works OK but 6.1 without sense will likely be unusable on a capacitive screen.
So all-in-all, the benefits of WP7 FAR outweigh the things we're "losing" in my opinion. Will I miss tethering, copy+paste, file system access, and multitasking? Of course. But I just don't think they're a big deal and I know most of that will be remedied rather quickly if you're willing to hack/mod your phone which is the whole point of this forum. So at the end of the day, it's a win/win. If you're uneasy about it, just wait a bit and we'll find out of my predictions are accurate. Then make the call.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not even the OS itself I don't like. It's that I-wanna-look-like-a-fake-iPhone interface thing.
rr5678 said:
It's not even the OS itself I don't like. It's that I-wanna-look-like-a-fake-iPhone interface thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm it doesn't look like an iPhone. You can make the claim that the platform is similar in that it's somewhat restricted but the UI is nothing like the iPhone. To say otherwise is patently false. If you don't like the UI, fine but don't try and use the excuse that it looks like the iPhone. Windows Mobile and Android look more like the iPhone and WP7 does.
Just in case you don't believe me, PocketNow did a comparison.
RustyGrom said:
Ummm it doesn't look like an iPhone. You can make the claim that the platform is similar in that it's somewhat restricted but the UI is nothing like the iPhone. To say otherwise is patently false. If you don't like the UI, fine but don't try and use the excuse that it looks like the iPhone. Windows Mobile and Android look more like the iPhone and WP7 does.
Just in case you don't believe me, PocketNow did a comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhhhh, if you don't notice the whole "I've got a load of icons" thing, I can't help you. I did not say it's a bloody exact replica, I said it's like a bad clone.
rr5678 said:
Uhhhh, if you don't notice the whole "I've got a load of icons" thing, I can't help you. I did not say it's a bloody exact replica, I said it's like a bad clone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 only has "icons" on the secondary app list.
WM6 has a very iPhone like listing of apps if you hit the windows/home button as does Android; much more so than WP7. What do you expect? At some point you're always going to have a list of applications. Should they just not use icons at all and have text only or something? Getting beyond the home screen, the entire UI design is different than Android and iPhone. There's no title bars, no frames, no drop shadows, no gradients. Here's an article (by an independent 3rd party) explaining how the WP7 UI is different than other OSes. Maybe you think it's a horrible copy because it's not a copy at all?
Like I said, if you don't like WP7's UI, fine, that's your prerogative. It's just a horribly inaccurate comparison.
RustyGrom said:
WP7 only has "icons" on the secondary app list.
WM6 has a very iPhone like listing of apps if you hit the windows/home button as does Android; much more so than WP7. What do you expect? At some point you're always going to have a list of applications. Should they just not use icons at all and have text only or something? Getting beyond the home screen, the entire UI design is different than Android and iPhone. There's no title bars, no frames, no drop shadows, no gradients. Here's an article (by an independent 3rd party) explaining how the WP7 UI is different than other OSes. Maybe you think it's a horrible copy because it's not a copy at all?
Like I said, if you don't like WP7's UI, fine, that's your prerogative. It's just a horribly inaccurate comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It is a near copy. It has the whole black background full of icons thing. And if you look, it's basically a near information-less screen just like the iPhone.
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I expect Microsoft to be original just like they have with WM6.1 and WM6.5
i think that if we a got a wp7 device and put 6.1 or 6.5 maybee 6.5.x just think of the speed of the thing !!!!!!!
kevmass said:
i think that if we a got a wp7 device and put 6.1 or 6.5 maybee 6.5.x just think of the speed of the thing !!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know. That's why I fully support this idea.
rr5678 said:
No. It is a near copy. It has the whole black background full of icons thing. And if you look, it's basically a near information-less screen just like the iPhone.
I expect Microsoft to be original just like they have with WM6.1 and WM6.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhhhh wow... you're reeallllyy reaching. If you're gonna say it's a copy of iPhone then you could just say it's a copy of WM.
Hello friends, this is my first post, just thought I'd share a few thoughts about my HTC titan. Coming from an android device (HTC desire running 2.2 froyo) , was immediately impressed by the smoothness and ease of use, and the huge screen is a revelation! I used to have an xda Orbit 2 (running windows mobile 6.1) and there is no comparison, so much better in every way. The android phone scores better than windows phones in that it is so customizable, but I found myself playing with the settings for hours on end without actually using it! A few times I have swapped back to my Desire, but never for long- what I thought was a smooth browsing experience was very jerky, and the flash player didn't help, slowing the phone down whilst loading numerous adverts on each webpage. After a while I found myself getting bored with the metro start screen, and can't wait for the 7.8 update with a busier screen. Android has thousands of apps, 95% of which are garbage. I find I only need a few good apps on my titan- a good you tube app, picasa app being the most important ( I like to upload my pictures an videos to the cloud where they are safe) . I had an issue with outgoing call quality on my titan- my voice was muffled, the answer was to tape over the noise cancelling mike on top of the phone. Also be careful with the case you use- any with metal in them seem to kill the reception. Now I use a rubberized case, my previous leather one (with aluminium stiffening) and my plastic case (with aluminium stuck on the back) are now gathering dust upstairs! Overall, I love this o.s., it may not be as flashy as some, but works. As an aside, I bought the Mugen 1950 ma battery, and the phone lasts two and a half days easily with moderate use- I bought a Mugen 3200 ma battery for my desire, and it only lasts two days!
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Hi++
so you switched to WINDOWS PHONE , congratulation and Welcome to your new community !
and here is HTC titan 7.8 roms :
Sianto Edition AL
EB Edition V2.6
++ HTC TITAN unlocking and SPL guide-1
HTC TITAN unlocking and SPL guide-2
Have fun !!
Hey, thanks for welcoming me Spider-7. And thanks for link to all those roms. I should say tho that I've never flashed a rom to any of my phones, they are all totally stock. I do enjoy the xda site for all its useful info, like tips and tricks, accessories etc. Yes, went from windows mobile to android and back to windows again, windows seems like a professional platform to me. I'll wait for the official update for 7.8 to come, whenever that may be!
markpab said:
Hey, thanks for welcoming me Spider-7. And thanks for link to all those roms. I should say tho that I've never flashed a rom to any of my phones, they are all totally stock. I do enjoy the xda site for all its useful info, like tips and tricks, accessories etc. Yes, went from windows mobile to android and back to windows again, windows seems like a professional platform to me. I'll wait for the official update for 7.8 to come, whenever that may be!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to WP7 and soon 7.8 have fun
Thanks Dinchy87. Didn't know I'd been a member since 2008- must've joined when I had my windows mobile! Only took me nearly 4 years for my first post!
Welcome
I would recomend checking out the Skydrive App if you are into Cloud backup, It can be used for totaly automatic backup of photos
Mark
Thanks for the tip, but I read somewhere that the photos are uploaded in a lower resolution, don't know if this is right.
Welcome! The Titan is a nice device. I rock a Focus S but I have a Titan too I got repaired for a friend. Both solid units. Some apps to get: Board Express Pro (it runs a bit better on WP than the WP version of the XDA app), Amazing Weather/Weatherflow, Ask Ziggy, Amazon, Gleek! (if you're into Twitter), LinkedIn, Metrotibe, Daily Wallpaper, TurboCam, Photosynth and WPCentral.
Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 AM ----------
I meant Metrotube (for YouTube videos)
Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
Hello! Yes, I like the titan very much, just the call quality issues that spoilt it at first. I have the super tube app for watching you tube videos, and is pretty good. Who needs flash!
Just last night I purchased the surf cube browser after using the trial first, and it seems good. More features on the u.i. than internet explorer, you can swipe for favourites or use an onscreen joystick. Tried uc browser too, but was disappointed. Uc was available on android, and was pretty quick. Earlier on I was reading a review of the new Nokia lumia 920. I'm not sure that windows 8 is much of an improvement over 7.5/7.8. Seems more of a refinement than a major step forward. I can't upgrade for 6 months, and I'm not sure that I would. I'm sure everything will run a little quicker with the dual core CPU, and you need that to shoot 1080p videos, but I may wait till windows 9 is out, till the difference in performance is really noticable. Just my thoughts.
For you since you are new to the platform, 7.5 to 7.8 will do just fine. I'd either wait to see what gets put out in the spring before you upgrade, of if you get a lumia 920 on the cheap, then take it. Supertube is a fine app too
Sent from my PI39100 using Board Express
Oh yes, I'd say the 920 is a superb phone for sure. And as time goes on I suppose windows 8 will improve on windows 7 series in one big way- the apps. I just hope that the developers who design apps for 8 will also do the same apps for 7. Though will that be more difficult than it sounds since the o.s. Kernels are different? Forgive me if I'm wrong, these are things I've picked up looking thru xda and WP central forums- and I'm no developer!
markpab said:
Oh yes, I'd say the 920 is a superb phone for sure. And as time goes on I suppose windows 8 will improve on windows 7 series in one big way- the apps. I just hope that the developers who design apps for 8 will also do the same apps for 7. Though will that be more difficult than it sounds since the o.s. Kernels are different? Forgive me if I'm wrong, these are things I've picked up looking thru xda and WP central forums- and I'm no developer!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it wouldn't be so hard if they developed For the 7.x platform as 8.x supports both, but it would mean some features would not be available. If they develops for 8 first and use 8 only functions then they will have to re do it for it to work on 7 costing more time and money. Logically any developer should aim to target 7.x to gain the widest possible user base. Games maybe the exception here but in an ideal world, shouldn't be, it would mean not having cutting edge wp8 game tho which isn't ideal from a selling point of view
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
dazza9075 said:
it wouldn't be so hard if they developed For the 7.x platform as 8.x supports both, but it would mean some features would not be available. If they develops for 8 first and use 8 only functions then they will have to re do it for it to work on 7 costing more time and money. Logically any developer should aim to target 7.x to gain the widest possible user base. Games maybe the exception here but in an ideal world, shouldn't be, it would mean not having cutting edge wp8 game tho which isn't ideal from a selling point of view
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the thing. Ideally as a dev you code for both, and that's what I've been telling a close friend who wants to get in on WP. But because the market for WP7 was relatively small, if the first wave for WP8 are a smash hit then most will not code for WP7. Devs are in a tricky spot in that if Gen 1 WP 8 doesn't sell, they may be forced to code for Windows 8 only before they come back fully to the WP platform.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Is it correct that 7.8 devices will still be made and sold alongside wp8 devices? If so, app developers would be encouraged to develop for both platforms.
markpab said:
Is it correct that 7.8 devices will still be made and sold alongside wp8 devices? If so, app developers would be encouraged to develop for both platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well I thought so, I have no proof but im sure I read somewhere that 7.8 effectively becomes the low end parts
dazza9075 said:
well I thought so, I have no proof but im sure I read somewhere that 7.8 effectively becomes the low end parts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly what will happen. Nokia's 510 that was recently announced is now the poster child of that. It still is a good idea for devs to code for both, but we will see it they will...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
The more I use my titan, the more impressed I am with it. Lets hope apps keep being developed so these devices can only keep getting better.
markpab said:
The more I use my titan, the more impressed I am with it. Lets hope apps keep being developed so these devices can only keep getting better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you dig the Titan. I've always loved some of the HTC unibody designs, so it is cool for me own one, even though I plan to use it as a backup phone. . Support really depends on how much stuff from WP8 gets ported into 7.8. If there are enough new features, it will hold some over until Gen2 WP8, or WP9.
My issue with HTC over the last few years is that they're releasing too many devices with that "one thing missing" to not make them popular, or releasing the right device a few months later , when the market's moved on. Adding the ****ty aftermarket (comparative to Nokia) and non hacker friendly (comparative to Samsung) support, they cannot help but bleed money...
Sorry for the rant.... The Titan is an excellent Gen 2 WP 7 phone. Let's see what HTC does with its successor...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Oh yes, onwards and upwards! I'm glad that WP hasn't gone the way of android with a new o.s. Upgrade every 6 months- you no sooner get your jellybean powered phone than the rumours start of the new upgraded system with amazing multitasking features , which render your phone obsolete (a friend at work has a Samsung s3 with picture in picture capability, so he can continue watching whatever while he plays with his start screen- wtf! ) no wonder quad core cpu's are so necessary! An excellent improvement for the next upgrade would be an external battery so you don't need to take the back off the phone when the damn thing freezes up! I would call this the Cadbury's chocolate bar upgrade! I don't mean to knock android, but my stock 2.2 desire used to freeze up regularly for no reason at all, and my Titan hasn't frozen once in 6 months. It all comes down to what you like, an if you are happy with whatever phone you have, then I am very happy for you! I can't comment on Apple products, I've never tried one, they really don't interest me. So in short, lets just have upgrades to the o.s. when there is something usefully added, or leave them as they are. P.s. Thanks for the thanks Trappxl!