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After a deep thinking and consideration I thought I need to benchmark the market -or in this case the Forum. I have been having Jasjar (Universal) for quite sometime now and was not so sure whether I keep it or not.
Every span of couple of months new device is launched with this feature or that benefit. Many that have proved functionality and other proved to be a total disgrace to the ppc industry
And since I am a member in this forum for almost over a year now, I wanted to ask all -at least who will visit this thread- how many of those are using Universal and those who are using other devices ranked in this Forum? If any would -thankfully- be coming up with serious statistics of the wide use of Universal vs. other devices and brands this would definitely indicate the global domination of such device and the versatility not to mention that with the latest ROMs this device became more and more dearer to me as much it is to others -I reckon so!
I am sure this would help all those programmers to focus more on developing roms and apps compatible with Universal than others. I would ask anyone who reads this post to contribute in voting and comments would surely be appreciated.
Cyber-mate said:
After a deep thinking and consideration I thought I need to benchmark the market -or in this case the Forum. I have been having Jasjar (Universal) for quite sometime now and was not so sure whether I keep it or not.
Every span of couple of months new device is launched with this feature or that benefit. Many that have proved functionality and other proved to be a total disgrace to the ppc industry
And since I am a member in this forum for almost over a year now, I wanted to ask all -at least who will visit this thread- how many of those are using Universal and those who are using other devices ranked in this Forum? If any would -thankfully- be coming up with serious statistics of the wide use of Universal vs. other devices and brands this would definitely indicate the global domination of such device and the versatility not to mention that with the latest ROMs this device became more and more dearer to me as much it is to others -I reckon so!
I am sure this would help all those programmers to focus more on developing roms and apps compatible with Universal than others. I would ask anyone who reads this post to contribute in voting and comments would surely be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not start a poll?
Universal
Hi Cyber-mate
To let you know; I do love my Universal and I'm using it 24 hours a day!
So I think I'm the first who answers your question
'Yeah... Lets start a poll'.
Cheers, Leo
Hi Cyber-mate
Have to say, I have persevered with the Universal, and that since the genius rom builders on here have cooked up some of their magic I am at last a happy Uni owner. I bought mine in Sep/Oct of 2005 and I can honestly say now I find mine usefull. I'm not a heavy user, but it is my main squeez (so to speak).
Regards
Mavrik
The reason there are so many devices, is because the market can support them as different people like different things.
There is no such thing as the best device, or the perfect device, it's what you think suits your needs the closest.
Currently, the Universal is the highest specification device, but soon the Athena will be out, but this is much larger, and not designed as a mobile pda phone, and also the Omni, which is the replacement for the Universal.
Really though, if you like your Universal, then great, if you don't, then listening to other people's views on what is good or bad will only confuse you.
We like the Universal, but there are many more that hate it.
I love my unversal too, and I think I keep it until I can get an Apple iPhone.
Or maybe I never change it to another device, because it has all thing in one, except GPS. But I can live without it, still we have BT GPS on the market.
Confused!!!...
Not sure what you want!!!...
Benchmark PDA? Yes I like my Universal!!!...
Benchmark Forum? Yes this is a good forum!!!... Of course, somethings are not allowed here but can be found somewhere!!!...
Benchmark self cooked ROM? This is definitely the best before WM6 starts to be banned!!!... If this banned forever, well one good thing less!!!...
HyperMalac said:
I love my unversal too, and I think I keep it until I can get an Apple iPhone.
Or maybe I never change it to another device, because it has all thing in one, except GPS. But I can live without it, still we have BT GPS on the market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why iPhone?
CWKJ said:
Confused!!!...
Not sure what you want!!!...
Benchmark PDA? Yes I like my Universal!!!...
Benchmark Forum? Yes this is a good forum!!!... Of course, somethings are not allowed here but can be found somewhere!!!...
Benchmark self cooked ROM? This is definitely the best before WM6 starts to be banned!!!... If this banned forever, well one good thing less!!!...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You see CWKJ, there are 100s of opinions from 100s of poeple. However, being a person among a large comunity that consider Universal as a gr8 device that has got the all-in-one! I mean, just check any of those posts with a ROM related topic, you'd see more than 100k entries and with no doubt this indicate that it is widely used and YET proven to be a
top-of-the-list device.
I am sure many more would agree with me and to tell you the truth, Apple IPhone is a pansy one.
We are talking FUNCTIONALITY here and not looks and colors! A device that can connect wirelessly, bluetooth, camera, keyboard and many others proves to be a true Pocket PC.
And hey, one more thing, when we talk about a Pocket PC, we aint talking mobile phone, I mean apple to apple
Hi,
about the Universal, I have to say it's a wonderful device which can be very useful and helpful. Thanks to its VGA display you can browse Internet really well not like those other devices with smaller resolutions.
The "laptop alike" makes it again very useful to write anything, even long texts.
I think about it more like a little laptop replacement (...ok the OS is not really a good OS replacement but I guess this would change with Linux...). It's another way of PPC, since I got my Hermes (about two weeks ago) I see how it's different, I use the Hermes with just one finger (almost everything) while I don't use the keyboard too much....on the other hand with my Uni I almost did everything with the keyboard.
So now with these two devices I have to say I use the Hermes as an "stable" PPC and the universal to try every new ROM is created, I'm trying to learn how to cook them, etc so now I think I'm enjoying the Uni even more!
I installed Dutty's ROM this weekend and it works fantastic. I was just wondering if any of you programming genius's (geniui?) had a chance to compare Dutty's ROM to HTC's 1.93 ROM.
I was just curious as to what differences are between the two. Typically, OEM manufacturer's end up making changes to match what the tweakers do first....
Curious....
Mark
Not really. You might find manufacturers keeping quite conservative settings. There's a reason behind everything (and that's called marketting).
For example: FAT / filter cache, which means you access your RAM more often AND keeping the gates alive at all times, at the cost of battery.
Tweaking isn't always what it seems, then again, sometimes you'd be better off not knowing all that stuff.
^.^
adwinp said:
Not really. You might find manufacturers keeping quite conservative settings. There's a reason behind everything.
For example: FAT / filter cache, which means you access your RAM more often AND keeping the gates alive at all times, at the cost of battery.
Tweaking isn't always what it seems, then again, sometimes you'd be better off not knowing all that stuff.
^.^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At almost 46 years of age, it took me a LONG time to realize that manufacturers of anything usually take the conservative road soley because they have to appeal to a wide range of people and for the product to last.
It doesn't matter if it's cars, computers, RC cars or phones... Any manufacturer can make it faster, bigger or quicker... however, at what cost.
In terms of longevity and durabilty (whether it be how long an engine lasts or how long the battery in your phone lasts) it's much easier and much safer to keep a happy medium.
Then the rest of us depend on tweakers like you guys to tweak it.
Thanks,
Mark
Very interesting thread may I say.
I agree, tweaking is forcing the engine. Thus, less efficiency.
And we even have tweakers looking at the possibility of overclocking the device.
Cheers!
I disagree on the less efficiency part. It was the wonderful work of the people here that made our Diamond performed as it should be and with much better battery life.
The engineers at HTC do not have the passion that our cooks have. For them it is a job, just get sufficient done.
For our wonderful cooks, it is passion to make The Perfect ROM.
We are the ones that get to enjoy the fruit.
weenween said:
I disagree on the less efficiency part. It was the wonderful work of the people here that made our Diamond performed as it should be and with much better battery life.
The engineers at HTC do not have the passion that our cooks have. For them it is a job, just get sufficient done.
For our wonderful cooks, it is passion to make The Perfect ROM.
We are the ones that get to enjoy the fruit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But there is a give and take... for example, HTC could make it blazing fast. But the give part is they may have to remove some cool programs. TF3D for example.... or perhaps it has a heating problem, blah, blah, blah....
I don't think for a second that HTC can't do it, I imagine there is a reason why....
I mean, think about it.... If HTC could make a few tweaks and make the phone PERFECT with the PERFECT ROM, then EVERYONE would buy it.... more sales, right?
Surely their engineers are capable of doing so, but there's gotta to be a reason why they don't want to make their product better.
Actually, to answer my own question, it's not that they don't want to make it better.... they already think it's great. I think after the public getting their hands on it, they find all the flaws and thus new ROMs to cure it.
Yeah, that's it....
Mark
Considering a Diamond to replace my Tilt.
Last Friday, PC Magazine reviewed the Diamond, highlighting its pluses and considerable negatives in this article:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2321616,00.asp
Could any of the ROM developers or others in this thread address what, if any, of the negatives in the article are eliminated or mitigated by ROMs developed here, such as battery life, poor Touch Flo screen response & generally buggy, slow software? (PC Magazine is hoping that US version will be better.)
Regardless of response, thanks to all for really helpful discussions & commitment to bettering stock ROMs.
Hmm... crappy review
I don't think that's a fair review to go by, but then again, i love my Diamond . I think the Diamond addresses a different kind of user then say an iPhone would. I for example don't mind making a backup (which takes about 30 seconds), and then flash new ROMS. as for the downsides:
- Sluggishness: This is, as far as i'm concerned, all fixed in most recent cooked ROM's. I started out with dutch 1.34 firmware (or was it 1.35... i'm not sure... the slow one though), and eventually got kind of ticked off. Flashing New ROM and some minor tweaks fixed this
- Keyboard eating up half your screen: Well, some ROM's include a smaller keyboard, though you definitely need a stylus to work it (i have thin fingers, so i can pretty much operate the full keybord with my fingers).
- Windows Mobile visible in places: For day to day use you barely ever run into Windows Mobile. And for the places you do it's a small effort to put the font-size to a few pixels higher so that everything's readable and clickable with your fingers.
- Opera issues: bull****. Works perfectly. Recent builds even more so then the stock one.
- Speakerphone quality is crap: well... yes it is. but it's a speaker phone, whad'ya expect? 5.1 sound?
- YouTube locking up his handset for 65 seconds: never heard of it happen, have quite a few friends with this phone. Application is quite snappy actually i think, considering the amount of data it has to process.
- Little additional software: How's adobe reader, flash lite, opera 9, google maps, office mobile, standard games + teeter, album viewer, jblend java, htc zip and a youtube player sound as per standard?
All in all i think this is an immensely biased review, from someone who probably hasn't used it for more then 2 days. If you give it a week to get used to it and personalize/tweak it you'll love it (i do, previous phones include Samsung i600 and i320, HTC Touch, Orange SPV M600, Nokia N73, so i'm not exactly new to smartphones).
I've never experienced the bugs in Opera mentioned in the article.
Most of the cooked ROMs on this site are significantly faster than the stock 1.93 ROM. As a reference, I can say that the diamond in the article is said to score:
SPB Benchmark: 378.11
CPU index: 2258.69
File system index: 176.37
Graphics index: 366.36
The presently fastest cooked ROM (Swtos v.095) gives:
SPB Benchmark: 512,41
CPU index: 2290,21
File system index: 214,74
Graphics index: 1688,14
That said, my honest opinion is that the Diamond UI is NOT as responsive as the Iphone. A lot of people here hate the comparison, but as a happy Diamond owner, this is my verdict and everyone who has made a direct comparison will tell you the same thing. There ARE still minor hickups, waiting for apps to start and slight lag in the TouchFLO 3D. I hope these will be eliminated entirely, but we're not there yet.
I'm presently using SwiftBL 6.0 FULL, considered as a fast ROM.
Many of these reviews aren't helpful to be honest, they're just more of the tired old apples versus oranges debates by people who don't much like oranges.
I can sum it up thus:
There is simply no device on the market giving more punch per unit volume... and that is by some margin.
This is why I got one, and it's turned out my decision was inspired.
It does however have it's drawbacks, and this device certainly isn't for every one (at first I had to prime it for my wife when she pinched it to make a call), but love it or hate it, the WM platform is so versatile, and is so ultra configurable, that if you put the effort in you will be handsomely rewarded... I think mine's great!
Being the owner of both diamond and iphone 3g. The best advice i can give you is going for the diamond. Forget all the other crappy phones. well i just use iphone as an ipod + web surfin I knoe i could go for the ipod touch but i like to show off that is why i just bought it. But trust me mate TOUCH DIAMOND WITH A LATEST COOKED ROM KILLS ANYOTHER DEVICE IN THE MARKET.
PS: Oh well if you like keyboard then go for the Touch PRO which is better than diamond. I am just waiting for it to come on vodafone uk so i can upgrade my contract.
Ehm? What? Heh?
This must be the worst and most unbalanced review I have ever read.
His whole critique could have been replaced with "it's not an iPhone". And you know what, that's absolutely true!
I currently have a Raphael, Diamond and Kaiser in operation. My preference is in that order. (I'll take the Kaiser over an iPhone though).
If you're coming from the Kaiser, you will love the Diamond (though really the Raphael is the Kaiser replacement here, not the Diamond).
Chainfire said:
Ehm? What? Heh?
This must be the worst and most unbalanced review I have ever read.
His whole critique could have been replaced with "it's not an iPhone". And you know what, that's absolutely true!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll have to go ahead and sort of ...disagree with you there!
I believe the review clearly shows why the Diamond isn't for everyone. The reviewer gives a very plausible view of the feature-hungry but regular Joe who just buys a cool phone in a store. This "Joe" did actually take the effort of upgrading the Diamond to latest stock ROM, but the quirks still left him frustrated and wanting.
The Windows Mobile platform and this great forum gives us power-users the means to address these quirks and that is exactly why I choose the Diamond over the Iphone. With the Iphone, you're left at the whim of Apple, who still more than a year later can't even offer something as fundamental as landscape typing, except in Safari.
Still, most users can't be bothered to go about the amount of modding that the Diamond requires to fulfill its potential. I'm a newbie still, yet I've spent countless hours reading these forums. I think we can agree, that kind of effort is not for everyone and that the Diamond without tweaks and with stock ROM, is quite a rough cut.
But, I have to give credit where it's due. When it comes to responsive user interface, the Iphone has raised the bar for ALL touchphones, and by a fair margin too. This is a good thing, comparing is a good thing - because it will make the industry and HTC to strive to adapt to the new standards.
The Diamond is a super device, I love it, and compared to other WinMo-devices it really excells too. But why is comparing it to the Iphone like Apples and Oranges? I think the majority of buyers in the market for a touchphone considers BOTH the Diamond and the Iphone, and probably the Omnia too. And all devices has their advantages and disadvantages, in the end it comes down to personal preference.
But still, wouldn't it be great to get the best features from all of them into one device?
So keep comparing and keep the whip on those developers! =)
losdrivare said:
But why is comparing it to the Iphone like Apples and Oranges? I think the majority of buyers in the market for a touchphone considers BOTH the Diamond and the Iphone, and probably the Omnia too. And all devices has their advantages and disadvantages, in the end it comes down to personal preference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Point taken that consumers can always use informed opinion to help make their choices...
But still, wouldn't it be great to get the best features from all of them into one device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...but until the happy day this mystical beast is born, I think we're still stuck with choosing between apples and oranges.
losdrivare said:
I'll have to go ahead and sort of ...disagree with you there!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you don't seem to disagree that much, you just use more words
On many points we agree, but that is because of the apples/oranges thing.
As I said, the Diamond is not an iPhone, and if mr average joe considers it to be one, that is their mistake.
The iPhone simply trades features and power for a sleeker UI. And though it is not there yet, WM will get this responsiveness as well. And it will not be HTC driving this, but rather MS themselves (mark my words). The slacking HTC is doing on many of its former devices and which is still partially there on the Diamond and Raphael will not be tolerated any longer. Though of course WM could be further optimized, do not forget that HTC can do all that the chef's can... they just don't
You actually say it yourself, you are left to the whim of Apple on many points, but in return you get a very responsive UI. This is just the other end of the spectrum from WM.
You will see, by the time the iPhone has the power of WM, WM will have the UI of iPhone. The only difference then is will you go with the Apple and still let all the decision be made for you, or will you go with MS and decide yourself what you want your device to be?
Yes, it would be great to have all those things. And we will. Just not yet
Thanks, everyone, for the quick and substantive replies to my question. The multiple perspectives are really great and are one of the valuable aspects of these forums.
Ive had my Diamond for almost 2 weeks now. I must say... after the excitement of taking it out the box, to being bitterly disappointed with the sluggish UI (to the point that I actually took it back to the dealer and asked for another phone), I must say that after discovering this forum, things are looking much rosier.
I'm slowly but surely starting to , as someone previously said, unlock the potential of the diamond and starting to like it again.
If you are expecting an iphone-like device, don't get this phone unless you are willing (and have the time and skill) to customise it. Its going to be a frustrating journey for you if you don't.
If you've already owned a wm device, you will probably love it (after customization)
Not as much a "how to" question as it is a "why" question. I used to root and swap ROM's on my older Galaxy phones. Few years ago decided this was becoming too much work to keep updated and the risk of bricking ever-present discouraged keeping that up. Now own two S9's and wondering if moving to Lineage presents a much greater value than keeping them on stock? One of the main reasons to root in the early days was to remove all the bloat and get features not built into stock, but many articles over the past few years suggest stock builds now offer most everything you need, so rooting is a thing of the past.
I know folks out here will be fans of making the change (why else would they be out here of they aren't' "tinkerers?"), but I really want to determine if there are truly compelling, value-add reasons beyond "it's a cool thing to do" to go down this path again, and how much effort it will take to maintain it as I keep my phones much longer than the typical person out here (what can I say, I'm an old fart).
Crickets
I've used the stock rom (android 10) which came on the device, and the Malaysk is what i'm currently running (not paid for as I don't agree with forced payments for roms!) and it is still very laggy and stuff doesn't seem to work.
I've not updated for about 9 months, is there any new roms available (presuming we're talking stock roms since there only seems to be two russian guys making these roms and Hal9k still only has his old Android 9 rom)
How does the Hal9k android 9 rom compare? is it better performance/less bugs etc? compared to stock 10/Malaysk ?
Thanks in advance.
if you don't agree to pay someone else's work, keep the original rom
or make one yourself free for all
entirely not the point, but thanks for your input.
pakoner said:
if you don't agree to pay someone else's work, keep the original rom
or make one yourself free for all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see this reply used alot; the comment avoids the OPs comments entirely and the issues around these paid roms, including things like lack of support and the fact that they do not contribute to the advancement of the forums.
Try commenting on topic, addressing the points raised instead of confirming biases.
The fact is they take others work, modify the stock rom and then charge for it.
Coming back on topic, there's generally no need for these modified roms, as the mods/issues they address are no longer an issue (e.g. use a USB OBD), or issues such as speed dependant volume, can be found in launchers or installable apps.
Well there is if people have an older rom unit and want to upgrade it with a more up to date rom with fewer bugs and more inbuilt options.
That said, newer options and features worth having are still few and far between. It seems only car manufactures are able to develop their own units with features that work which do address peoples needs.
For anyone with an older car or a car lacking a good head unit, people have few options. Of course its a far cry from tape players and a readers digest atlas. But once purchased these universal units have so little support or upgrade options people are very much at the mercy of independent developers.
Thankfully these few people are willing to share their knowledge and skill for all. While they might only tinker with what came before, their upgrades and developments are still at their own pace - and thats their choice. If they charge a few quid for some of it then so what. Be gratefull we have them still at all.
Because what really is a shame is that there are now too few skilled developers like them. And that IS the problem. A few years ago developers for phone roms were ten a penny with good healthy competition and a huge influx of ideas and knowledge.
Sadly there are more and more people today with such skills only interested in developing for cash rewards by advertisers on the back of malware or worthless apps.
Those few that do try to help such as those here in the forums, even if they make a charge, do make some progress and share with all. Remember they are also constrained and rely heavily on far more restrictive and less supportive google tools these days than they were.
The real shame is there just isn't enough of them.