Develop Bugs

Copyright issues - A_C's S2U2 probem

Hi all,
I'm just a junior member and have no autual authority in the XDA-Developers Community so I hope this is the right place to put this thread. Moderators, please move it if I've got that wrong. I've just read this thread in the Development and Hacking forum:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=425167
and it raised some concerns in my mind which could present some fairly serious threats to the nature of this forum (i.e. developers' willingness to get involved). Here's a copy of what I posted, entitled "We NEED to see the bigger picture":
OK, I have read through this thread fairly quickly and I have some observations and some suggestions to make. Let me say that I am more of a “user” than a developer but I have made a few very small contributions on XDA-Developers. Please check my stats if you want to. Let me also say that I always look at the “bigger picture” in these situations.
Unfortunately what has happened to A_C over S2U2 is a consequence of capitalism. Businesses exist for the purpose of making money and extending their business. It is not so much a matter of trust or character but that the very purpose of a business is to make money and nothing else. The situation we’ve been presented with does however raise some concerning issues.
There are technicalities and more technicalities which people will continue to use to make money out of products and items of value they did not produce themselves. I don’t think anything we can say to businesses will prevent them doing this. For all the arguments we can present, they will have others and there would be little we can do to stop them TRYING to use freely developed software in this way. Businesses will have more money than we have to promote “their” products, and as we’ve already seen, unless we have a pro-bono lawyer, they will have more money for to defend their business and sales through the law and search engine optimisation (which is a very big business by the way!).
The point I am trying to make is that while this may be an isolated incident right now, there’s nothing to stop this happening again and again. We may well have “lost” A_C despite all the genuine and heart felt encouragement directed towards him so it seems to me that if we want to protect what we have, an environment where developers feel free to develop software for themselves and “us” with our support, we need to do more. What can we do?
We do have two critical factors on our side:
1) Community
2) Technical Expertise
Community - A community has a much greater power to change it’s destiny than any one individual – as demonstrated by the unfortunate situation A_C finds himself in. If we all pull together, or even just those of us more committed to this community, we will be able to overcome much more than we currently realise.
Technical Expertise – As stated above, I am not a developer but I am convinced that there is more technical ability available to this community than many software businesses could pay for with their entire budget, or even turnover.
I believe we must make use of these two strengths or suffer the consequences.
My basic suggestion is that a working group is set up from developers who contribute to this community with the sole purpose of writing a code which can be inserted into any ROM or software which clearly states that the software/ROM has been developed free of charge, and that if the “customer” has paid for it then they should ask for a refund and contact XDA-Developers to report the licence violation and receive the full free version of the software. Once developed this code can then be made available, with instructions, to any new developers who start to submit work to the community so that they don’t fall foul of the same experience as A_C.
Additionally could this code be hard coded into the software/ROM so that unscrupulous software sales companies can’t take it out (I.E. not just a .gif or .jpg splash that can be changed or removed)?
As this is a forum, the next step would be for people to share their views on these suggestions and we’ll see what happens!
Best wishes to A_C – hope you’re not feeling too bad.
I’m going to post this in the general forum as a new thread if there’s not one there already.
andrew-in-woking
I hope that this thread will engender some constructive discussion and lead to a better community for all of us.
Best wishes,
andrew-in-woking

the problem with adding code, is that it adds bulk. the classic example is Cubase audio software, where it is estimated that 50% of cpu power can be wasted in it constantly checking it's protection; and even this has been cracked by geniuses, though i think they have since 'retired' from the scene. anyway, i digress. with space at a premium with phones, getting into copy protection, nag screens, etc. is removing that space. plus from own experience and feedback from users, nag screens and reporting fraud options will get ignored. as 9 times out of 10 they have seeked the software out through unscrupulous sources. add to that, a developer has spent months streamlining their code, only to bolt on some fugly security, kinda depressing.
i dont think there is or will ever be a clear cut solution to copyright im afraid, i mean, look at windows lol.

I had no idea this was happening. Thanks for the heads up.

badaas said:
the problem with adding code, is that it adds bulk...
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I think the OP's suggestion is a good one. It doesn't need to be anything complicated or over the top. Simply text in the About screen will suffice.
I.e.
Help>>About>>"Widget v.1.xx, Developed on XDA-Forums as FREEWARE - If you've paid for this please report the seller to the proper authorities"

i think adding in the freeware statement would be a plus i think if A_C decided to add it in down at the buttom when you first start up S2U2 where it states what verison this is and A_C name would be a good time to have it scroll. If there were some way to have it keep marqueeing while the program is running or for it to do it when the screen wakes up i think as users of A_C's product it wouldn't affect me seeing this because the programs are just that great

Theme competition

I am looking to in the near future organize a theme competition. I would be willing to put up $100 dollars donated to the winning designer. If others would like to offer up as well we can figure that part out. I know many of the theme makers here do it for nothing more than for fun, the challenge and to give back to the community. I would love to see how far the envelope would get pushed and what amazing things could be done with something more on the line.
What I want to know is would any of you theme creators be interested in this? I'm sure many people would, but would the right people? I'm thinking all themes would be based on RC33 once everyone figures it out since its the most adopted...We'd have to work out the details.
So what say you? Any interest?
Edit: Contest is a go!
Ending date is March 13th ALL themes much be submitted by midnight pacific time - US. No exceptions!
Donation Link: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...ton_id=3192813 Thank you to "brandenk" for handling the money. He has provided my with verification information and I am comfortable enough to give him $100 of my own.(You don't have to donate, but if you believe in this competition and what it will provide, I would be greatful if you did. I am donating $100 of my own money. Any donations will go towards future competitions. 10% off the the prize money will be donated to XDA. for example...If prize = $100, then first place gets $70, second $20, and 3rd $10, XDA gets 10% of what the total prize is, however it will not come from the prize itself. If we donot get any donations to do this I will donate this out of my own pocket. I refuse to do this without giving back to XDA)
I am also toying with the idea of people who donate being allowed to BETA test and/or judge in some capacity (More on this as it develops, until then...Donate because you believe. This may not happen so don't donate just for that reason)
If you choose to donate please PM me your email address and donation amount, I want to keep track of everyone and give them a special thanks and credit for helping at the end
Rules:
1. No previously released themes, this goes against the push for innovation I hope to achive during this contest.
2. Designer has the choice to work in whatever enviornment he chooses...however RC33/ADP1.1 are the prefered choices as they are the most widely adopted releases.
3. The contest will last for one month from the start date. All themes must be recieved by midnight US/Pacific time on the final day to be entered in the voting. NO exceptions will be made. END DATE IS MARCH 13TH
4. The prize for this competition will depend on donations we receive, it will however be atleast $100 but no more than $200. If total donations exceed $200 the remain funds will be put towards future competitions. The winner will receive 70%, second place will receive 20%, and third place 10%, XDA gets 10% of what the total prize is, however it will not come from the prize itself.
5. The themes will be scored based on three catagories. Innovation/Originality(25% of final score), Technical Difficulty(25% of final score), and popular vote(50% of final score. If you are interested in being a judge let send me a private message and let me know. Judges are not able to compete, so any theme makers looking to sit this one out I can use your help as a technical judge.
6. All themes must be stable enough to run flashed to a phone and be useable.
7. Teams are allowed, however it will be limited to 2 members per team in order to keep the amount of themes up. I may do a larger team competition in the future however.
If you plan to compete please contact me via private message, so i can get an idea of how many contestants we are looking at. I hope so see this bring out some favorites as well as some new faces.
If you are interested in donating towards the prize look for donation information soon, or feel free to PM me and i will get back to you with information when we have it.
Any questions and/or concerns may also be conveyed to me through Gtalk if you wish. Hit me up if you wish "Doooshty at gmail dot com"

Hmmmm.....

Stericson said:
Hmmmm.....
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What do you think? I value your opinion seeing as you are the creator of all things theme(With help from JF, i know you're too modest to take all the credit ). Enough to bring the great Stericson out of theme retirement? lol

I think its a great idea, but how would you secure the funds? Plus, what would the time frame be? I might be interested.
[Edit] Not too modest, just like respecting the work and time of others that have helped me.

Stericson said:
I think its a great idea, but how would you secure the funds? Plus, what would the time frame be? I might be interested.
[Edit] Not too modest, just like respecting the work and time of others that have helped me.
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Initial thought on fund was I would donate it to Jesus Freak and he would then donate it to the winner...that was just a quick idea. We are pretty sure he's not going anywhere however he may very likely want nothing to do with it, but i'm still looking to work that out. As far as time frame, I was looking to get input from theme makers on this. Not being one myself I am un aware how long this process takes, I also know that no one does this fulltime so I want everyone to have a chance to make something nice.
Like I said it's in its early stages, I just wanted to see how much interest there was before I really went forward with it

This is a good way to get a bunch of themes in the wild =) I would participate...would you supply coffee and peanut butter & fluff sangwiches =)

well well well, i could enter a theme competition.... what time frame are we looking at
best in a month's time? 2 weeks? 2 months?
also, you could secure the transaction through paypal, or send a personal check to someone.... hmm
also will there be "all-the-neccessary-tools" to edit everything, from .9 pngs to png, i guess a fair playing field (well technically starting line) then whoever excels from there should be crowned winner....

Like having a select set of icons, or a pool of resources and see who makes the best from that pile? And how fast?
This is a great idea! I would gladly chip in the prize bucket to see the outcome.

JackD3ath said:
Like having a select set of icons, or a pool of resources and see who makes the best from that pile? And how fast?
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This is a very cool idea, makes it a real competition...If this doesn't pan out for this thread i will work with you on another thread.

i'm glad to see some interest...i was thinking 1 month, but i'm interested to see what everyone thinks. i'm at work right now...i'm off at 3 est, and i'll post some more thoughts i have on it, but until then let me know what you think. i'm excited...i think this could be fun

damnitpud said:
This is a very cool idea, makes it a real competition...If this doesn't pan out for this thread i will work with you on another thread.
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Like iron chef themeing? That could be interesting

The tough part is figuring out what iconset would be used...something with a few different colors so each themer can use a different color scheme. I think this could be fun. A month is a long time, i would say 2 weeks tops. If someone sits in one place for about 6-7 hours strait a theme could be completely finished, maybe even faster now that some of the images are supplied.
We should start a thread for people to post iconsets, then take a 1 week poll for the best one. Let the community decide the default stuff.

Actually, A month is perfect for me. I have a lot on my plate and I can't devote a lot of time at once. I have some tricks up my sleeve I'd love to throw into this....

Depending on how this pans out, I'll be willing to donate ATLEAST $20.
My vote will go to the most "THEMED", not color matched

However, I don't like the idea of just themeing for RC33, it's not as free as ADP1.1, which is way easier to theme on and allows you to do more things. I feel kind of limited by RC33.
After all, Adp1.1 is the "Dev Phone"
Stericson

What build? Please tell me ADP1.1

Boo!!! Well I guess this will give me a push to start reading more about ADB/ADP. I don't want to jump out of my limits.
Theme on themers

Maybe we can set up a donation spot and keep it full and have regular monthly contests whenever the donation pot is above $100. Maybe even split the $100 to $60 - 1st place, $30 - 2nd place, $10 - 3rd place.

Shoot, put me down for 20 too and you can call on me for it. Id love to see something with animations.

So here is a noobish question, I assume I can flash the ADP 1.1? If so, and if it is easier to theme, are there elements of RC33 missing from ADP1.1?
My thought is, if we all decide to stick with one build, it would help the communal effort of making themes.

Regarding Rights To OUR Intellectual Property Here

In light of what I considered to be a couple of very disturbing developments, I think at this point, a dialogue/debate needs to be opened on what rights/copyrights a contributor has on the intellectual material he/she posts here.
Sakajati was abruptly censored when he suggested that future roms may be administered through a tool bar and not administered through this site.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3288089&postcount=10332
And the way that BeyondInvisible was driven off this site by the " takers " and not supported by this site. ( the people that stole his new pay/per icons and published them for free, should have been banned). http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2798052#post2798052 because he dared suggest that it might be time for all the takers to pony up.
When your work becomes widely successful ala; olinex, jockyw, sakajati, MobileMatt, JCKOTZE, Schap, in the kaiser forums, at what point does toiling around in poverty while you work hard for others for free, become less attractive than selling your work?
Who now owns your work , you, XDA, is it copyrighted? When you decide to take it private what ownership rights does XDA retain?
If you request that XDA remove your work, can they leave an archive of it?
I love this site it is the greatest resource on the net for PDA's but I think these subjects could use a good going over by the Mods and the membership.
Dennis

Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM... ask any Mod, we all get the emails. The action I took (editing the toolbar links) is the most benign available to Moderators. I could have closed the thread, and moved it to a Mod-only section while the investigation/discussion took place. Instead, I opted to merely edit out the download links.
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
Now while a decision has not yet been made, I can confidently say that if SJ had promoted his toolbar as a tool to help all users of his ROMs get the latest "breaking" new on development, and NOT required it in order to obtain the password required for flashing, then we [most likely] would have allowed the toolbar to stay linked on XDA.

I think part of the problem here is that many seem to think that they are entitled to what the chefs produce for nothing. The hours spent porting and testing should count for something but for many it is just expected. I for one have no problem contributing what I can when I'm able. It is too bad that more don't do this.
Kirby

Intellectual property laws protect the inventor/creator rights of ownership to their intellectual property in cyber media. So there is no fear but a concern for any coder that his or her work marketing could be abused or it could be stolen. That is the risk one takes without his or her choice when they share their creations with others.
I also read XDA rules, and it clearly states that soliciting anything for money is prohibited. many cooks are on the border line of asking for money rather encouraging donation for sharing the fruit of their work with others. I do not have a problem with that and believe the majority here share my sentiment. I have a problem however with someone begging for donation without any substantiating efforts, invention or creation to merit the donation solicitation. That being said, I believe SJ was a true gentleman in all of his posts and never infringed on callus donation request; having a tool bar that he feels if XDA was out ( and it was out few times in the past month) as an optional site but not alternative support site that can be accessed where members can help each other is not a bad idea.
We seem to forget sometimes that XDA site was created to help one developer another achieve excellence in the field of e-communication.
so again, I have no problem with SJ promoting his tool bar as long as it is not used to ransom donation for solving issues and i am sure like I said earlier, this is NOT SJ's intention.

NotATreoFan said:
Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM...
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
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That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
JimmyMcGee said:
Your opinion is respected. But the appearance was that he WAS requiring people to use the Toolbar to get the Password for the ROM.
Sakajati can do what ever he wants with his ROM, if he chooses to require the Toolbar, that's his choice. If XDA, the people who maintain and provide some presence for his ROM here say that's not in the spirit of the community, then he can release the ROMs on his website soley.
Basically you have to follow certain rules to post your stuff on SourceForge, so think of at as the same thing.
You seem to be the only one with a problem. sakajati is a great guy and is being cooperative in the investigation.
There is written law and common law. This falls more into to "Common Law" area, which is why I said it was a Grey area.
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I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !

denco7 said:
That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !
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My Friend read this...
sakajati said:
Just uploaded the cab to download center. It will add [Slide down for call functions] feature.
*** Please all of you install my toolbar [mod edit: link removed], this is the tool that will keep you updated and you will receive alert/message via the toolbar for news and announcements regularly from me. If you're using HyperDragon ROMs, you have to install it since the next rom release will be password protected and you'll get the password only via this toolbar . No adware, spyware, crapware, underware, read the Toolbar Privacy [mod edit: link removed]for details.***
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Read the Green Parts. The general consensus is IF sakajati REQUIRES people to use the Toolbar to use his ROMs, he is no longer contributing to the XDA ROM Community.
sakajati is ALLOWED and not censored to require this if he so chooses. However the ramifications are, that he would no longer be allowed to advertise his ROM here.
The "common law" rule is, if you post a ROM on XDA, you are contributing to the community and the ROM shall have NO STRINGS attached. No requirement to Give Money, no requirement to have a toolbar installed.
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
But as NATF has said, no final desicsion has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.

JimmyMcGee said:
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
But as NATF has said, no final decision has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.
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Since this has all been put to rest, I just have some final thoughts and then I'll shut up.
It was never about XDA's/Mod's disapproval as to what he intended to do, you all are entrusted with the success and smooth running of this site and have every right to administer this site as you see fit, (as I have every right to question why ) And it was not really about SJ, he was just the vehicle of my overall concern about creative people leaving this site because of real and perceived ( do it our way or get out ) disagreements.
I guess I just wanted to know, if people decided to take their projects private,such as a new rom, would they still be welcome here to support older projects or develop new projects here ( that fell within XDA guildlines ) and while supporting their projects, could they in a subtle non-commercial way, direct people to private/financially enhancing projects.
And of course I still object to the way it was handled, that sort of, " we are taking it all down until we decide " way of doing it, is something that happens to noobs that don't know any better. Not to someone who has done as much for, and contributed so much to the Kaiser community as sakajati has done.
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
Oh yeah ........one more thing
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
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Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?

denco7 said:
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
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This is not an issue of personal disagreement, it is a violation of our rules of operation. When we see questionable activity, we will always take the action of stopping the activity, contacting the OP, and trying to resolve it quickly. I am sure SJ understands this as well as anyone here that it was nothing personal, and simply just S.O.P. around here. It's a lot easier to take down a problem for a couple days, and then let it back up with an apology than it is to remove it after we've debated.
As for you question about prior contributions, of course anyone is welcome to support anything that they have and continue to offer that is in compliance with our rules here. Nothing even stops a user from selling some stuff, and giving others away. It's just that they can't post the stuff they're selling here, just the donation ware.

IP
I have just a couple points. The Phoenix team has a separate website we use for tracking bugs and other discussion so we don't clutter up this site. However our intent is to foster creativity, open communication and cooperation among users and chefs which we hope results in better products for the users of this site. So don't always think a private website like ours or SJ's is a bad thing.
However, I would like to point out what was only stated one time in the thread--the guts of these roms are the ip of microsoft and htc. Now as chef's we find other bits and pieces that are added--and these are the ip of their creators. Sometimes we contribute our own ip--like skins, icons and very specific know how to get the roms to help our devices perform at peak efficiency. But anyone who would try to take a rom private and sell it, would have some major issues without first getting license to do so from MS, HTC and those other people who own the other intellectual property.
There are many examples of apps that were developed by talented people here that have gone commercial. Those apps are still discussed and linked to here because they all have trial periods. There is nothing wrong with commercializing your own ip..The wrong comes when you commercialize ip that you don't own or haven't properly license.
So let's continue a great tradition of creativity. I believe that this site is the primary reason that HTC and microsoft keep trying to make a better operating system. This site is where many ideas come from. This site gives the OS life beyond the normal experience.

denco7 said:
(snip)
Oh yeah ........one more thing
Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?
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Pfft Those Posers

some confused thinking here -
A cook can ask for a contribution for his time but there is no way he can claim that a cooked rom is his IPR because it's belongs to someone else start with - no licence to modify has been granted!
Now creating programs from scratch, that's a different issue and how they want to deal with payment is upto them.

my theory is whoever created the forum and then got ppl to volounter to mantain it
ITS THERE FORUM
Its really up to them what they want to do

CMS-based directory for all member-created apps, themes, skins and tutorials

Should there be a dedicated section where all xda-members can submit their stuff through a pre-defined form? Like with the following features:
Subcategories
for themes: WM 6.5, Titanium, Sense, WAD, Mobile Shell, lockscreen, boot animations, icons etc.
for ROMs: per device (every device gets its own subcategory)
Pre-defined fields, for example
compability (WM 5, 6, 6.5, 6.5.3)
resolution (QVGA, WVGA etc.)
CAB install (yes/no)
for ROMs: build, free RAM etc.
Filter by fields (for example only WM 6.5.3 and QVGA)
additionally presets for common devices, like WM 6.5 and WVGA for HD2 (already implemented in the current frontpage)
Rating system (which should not be placed in some drop-down nearly out of view like on the forums)
Sort by rating, views last x days, last update etc.
Featured entries which show up on front page
Provide file hosting space
I think you get the idea, it's vaguely similar to freewarepocketpc.net. The main benefit would be that it's a lot easier, especially for new people, to find the things they're looking for, and a forum thread isn't exactly the best and easiest-to-maintain way to show off your apps/themes/ROMs. Fields additionally ensure consistency among all posts.
Also, right now the more posts, the more attention a thread gets. This poses the problem that, for example, an app where many users post to report a problem gets more attention than another app where everything just works fine, as only a small minority bothers to post a "thank you". As almost no one rates threads (on the average there is less than one rating for 10,000 views) and even fewer people sort threads by views or rating, these apps (or themes or whatever) do not get the attention they deserve. With a rating system and the ability to sort by it, this problem could be solved.
Of course, the implementation of such a system could be somewhat challenging. I only want to hear what others think of this idea.
What do you think? Like the idea or not? Leave a comment and vote, thanks !

I think this is a brilliant idea, it's like an app store, but with apps ETC... will support in anyway i can

Badwolve1 said:
I think this is a brilliant idea, it's like an app store, but with apps ETC... will support in anyway i can
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea idd! Like an app store, but with apps!
No seriously, good idea. The more active a post is, the more visitors it will get. Lots of good stuff after page 10 of the dev category aswell haha.

Yep, not only that but also the consistency and accessability, especially for new people, will be a great advantage. I also contacted svetius and he seems to like this idea, so I hope this will be done in the future. Thanks for your support guys!

Livven said:
Yep, not only that but also the consistency and accessability, especially for new people, will be a great advantage. I also contacted svetius and he seems to like this idea, so I hope this will be done in the future. Thanks for your support guys!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We need to put this in our Sigs who has photoshop (He says to the theme designer )

I think it's a great idea - especially for noobies. I don't have developers skills but have learned much over the years just reading and browsing threads. Enough to even add some simplistic help here and there. But most people don't have time to look through many threads hoping to find some glitter of gold they are looking for. This might slow down the "Is there an app for this?" threads. Not everyone has time to just sit and browse but those of us who want to might not have so many uninformative threads to look at.
I would suggest a link to the initial thread where support could be given and all the "Thank you" responses kept in the new posting. And with all the needed information posted up front it might also stop all the "Will this work on my XXXX?
Hope it can happen!

That´s a great idea, I miss this database here..would help a lot!

A very good idea to have a database here & it's references!

yeah it would be great

We've gotten many requests for this, and it's clearly something we would like to do. There are two (obvious) issues:
1. Figuring out the best implementation method -- Can we somehow use Wordpress (which is what the portal runs on now)? If not, what CMS? Exactly how should the database be structured? That's not exactly a simple question given all the different permutations of devices/operating systems/resolutions that are supported by different software.
2. Figuring out how to keep it updated -- Do we rely on the devs to post their creations both in the forums and the database? Or do we have volunteers scan the forums daily to pull stuff into a app database? That sounds like a boring job . Anyway, we don't want to spend the time building something unless we have a sustainable and affordable model for keeping it going.
Anyway, if anyone is serious about helping us implement something (conceptual design, development, etc), send me a detailed PM. Or we can discuss it here.
As it is, this is definitely on my list to figure out, but there are also 5 or 6 other things (some front-end stuff like the forum re-design and other back-end server stuff). Plus to the extent all these projects have some cost, we like to spread them out.

1. I don't think WordPress, as a blogging tool, is suited for something like this. Drupal, with the module CCK, provides this kind of funtionality out of the box, and you won't need to worry about how the database is structured. Then we'd just need a custom theme (perhaps the same ones who are currently redesigning the forum).
2. If new things are only posted in the new section, then a forum thread with a summary, link etc. should be created automatically in the right subforum. So, threads will only be used for discussion, not for presentation.
For any further discussion of this idea, I'd like to suggest we keep it in this thread, so everyone can see it and comment.

Great idea! As already mentioned, I guess the maintenance/upkeep would be the sticking point.

mic_888 said:
Great idea! As already mentioned, I guess the maintenance/upkeep would be the sticking point.
Click to expand...
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i think ppcmods.com is making some progress on this subject

mic_888 said:
Great idea! As already mentioned, I guess the maintenance/upkeep would be the sticking point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That shouldn't be a problem as the entries will be maintained by the respective creators like forum threads.

So, whens it going to be up n running?
willing to BETA test

YES! I'd strongly recommend Joomla and DocMan or any other similar component. I've used it successfully on other sites and it's terrific.

app store, what a great idea!

Want Something on the Front Page? Contact Us.

Hey all,
You may have noticed that the front page (a.k.a. the portal) of our beloved forums has been getting regular updates, leading to news, improvements, and more.... anything related to xda-developers. Keeping up with the latest and greatest apps, themes, mods, hacks, etc. is our way of giving those developers that put the time and effort in this community some 15 minutes of fame by being featured in the largest online community of its kind in the world. However, since we are not omniscient and hence cannot spot every single piece of software that shows up in a 2.5 million member community, we would like to ask you for help. If you see something that is of interest to you, that you believe could have an impact on XDA, or you simply made the next best app in the world, drop us a pm. We will be more than happy to evaluate the submission and feature it on the XDA Portal.
Here is the contact information for the News Writer Team:
orb3000
ben_duder
mic_888
Wen(WM)
ElCondor
sirphunkee
Livven
nqnguyen2
Leddy
wingman1487
egzthunder1 - Portal Administrator.
Any help and tips are greatly appreciated Together we can make xda-developers even bigger than it already is.
Sincerely,
News Writer Team

Introduction
As some of you may know me
I´m orb3000, and been around XDA since 2006; this site change me the way of seeing mobile world. Interested mainly on Windows Mobile platform.
I started with Universal which I had for almost 5 years, after that I got a Rhodium and a Maple and later a Leo.
I write most of my articles for that OS and also do active help on spam reporting, as well as welcoming new members
I do not consider myself as an expert, I am simply a regular member trying to help to they wayI do better to the first and only community I love so much
XDA!!
So, feel free to contact me if you think something of your work may go to our Front Page.
Come on!, don´t be shy
orb

Thanks guys, I love the way you are being updated without losing the essence.
Everything in xda is getting better.

I am ElCondor, and I'm from Holland. You might know me from the GTX Sense theme.
Back in February, I started this job as a news writer, because I wanted to be part of and contribute to the xda-developers community.
Since then, I started to love writing these articles, and my English improved drastically.
My articles are mostly Android or Windows Phone 7 related.
You can always contact me if you have any suggestions or special requests. Also if you have found something newsworthy, something other users may enjoy too, just let me or any other newswriter know.
Best regards,
ElCondor
XDA News Writer

Hi guys, I've been around since 2007 when I bought the HTC Touch, well things have moved on a lot since then, and I've tried my hand at developing for WM and Android (still learning), but wanted to contribute more by becoming a News Writer for XDA
I write mainly Android articles, and some Windows Mobile. We're always sifting through the masses of threads for front page news, but do let me or the other guys know if you think anything is newsworthy including any breaking news!

I guess I will add my little "intro" in here as well
I'm egzthunder1 and I am the Portal Administrator as well as a Senior Moderator. I have been a XDA member for a very, very long time... since July 2005 to be more precise. I have gone through many devices, starting out with a Wallaby (SX56) and kept on going afterwards with many other devices (Blue Angel, Wizard, Vogue, Raphael, Herman, Mogul, and ultimately HD2)... most of which I still own and are fully functional. I have helped many, many people throughout these years, despite my lack of development ability. A few months ago, I became a News Writer based on a suggestion by Flar (Retired Admin) to try to increase the flow of people to the site by creating a more dynamic front page of the website, with up to date content about everything XDA. Shortly after, I became Senior Moderator, and really shortly after, due to Flar's departure, I became Editor in Chief and Portal Administrator.
I would like to invite all of you (as I stated in my first post in this thread) to let us (the news writer team) know if you know of something that would be cool to have in the front page.
Looking forward to your input and thanks for supporting XDA!
Sincerely,
egzthunder1

Hi there!
I've been a member since 2008, when I got my Universal after having the Monet for some time. Although it was basic, the Monet forced me to get another Windows Mobile phone as I was instantly addicted to how much potential the operating system had - before then I could never really check emails, browse the internet or watch video without booting up my PC.
After the Universal came my much-adored Touch Pro, which I still use. I recently bought and fixed up a G1 so that I could branch out into the Android side of the site a little more, and I'm really enjoying tinkering with the system.
I wanted to become a news writer as I have always felt an urge to contribute to the community despite not having any technical knowledge (some of you might have seen me giving out dodgy advice around the forums ).
Having both phones should let me write articles about both Android and Windows Mobile, and I hope I can help if you want to get your story out on the front page.

Well done is better than well said.

Maybe something to expand on....
Found a website that analyzes the value of other sites.
What is the Website Value of XDA-Developers.com
It seems that xda-developers.com is being valued at $13.28 Million. With 1.66 Million Pages and with a World Wide rank of 1,806. Compared to that: Htc.com is only worth $12.66 Million Google is ranked 1 worth $8 Billion and Microsoft on rank 19 worth $1 Billion.
http://bizinformation.org/us/www.xda-developers.com
A little side note, my Blog only ranks at 1.4 Million and is only worth 7800.- For Obvious reasons.

Thanks for the information!
Not sure if we can write about that but I will find out

swiss420 said:
Found a website that analyzes the value of other sites.
What is the Website Value of XDA-Developers.com
It seems that xda-developers.com is being valued at $13.28 Million. With 1.66 Million Pages and with a World Wide rank of 1,806. Compared to that: Htc.com is only worth $12.66 Million Google is ranked 1 worth $8 Billion and Microsoft on rank 19 worth $1 Billion.
http://bizinformation.org/us/www.xda-developers.com
A little side note, my Blog only ranks at 1.4 Million and is only worth 7800.- For Obvious reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Website valuation sites are notorius for being crazily inaccurate when it comes to valuing Forum sites and Blogs. They tend to be based on assumptions about traffic, potential sales and ad clicks. Few Blogs and Forums sell much if anything and that just leaves ad clicks. Forums are very poor at generating ad clicks as Members tend to become completely blind to the ads and don't click them at all. Much of the traffic to blogs and forums is repeat traffic and they are even less likely to click on the ads (not to mention ad blockers). When was the last time you click an ad on here!?
Mike

mikechannon said:
Website valuation sites are notorius for being crazily inaccurate when it comes to valuing Forum sites and Blogs. They tend to be based on assumptions about traffic, potential sales and ad clicks. Few Blogs and Forums sell much if anything and that just leaves ad clicks. Forums are very poor at generating ad clicks as Members tend to become completely blind to the ads and don't click them at all. Much of the traffic to blogs and forums is repeat traffic and they are even less likely to click on the ads (not to mention ad blockers). When was the last time you click an ad on here!?
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutly true, and I am sure I did not motivate anyone to sell xda-developers.com. But it is still a amusing evaluation. For me XDA-Developers.com has definetly much more continues value then htc.com but I guess one might not exist without the other. But regarding clicking adds I rather donate directly. But off course I donate to many different people not just XDA-Developers.com. Regarding the adds I wonder how much money they really generate? If they are useless I would not mind to see them gone. Dont worry I will donate something for saying that. lol

mikechannon said:
Website valuation sites are notorius for being crazily inaccurate when it comes to valuing Forum sites and Blogs. They tend to be based on assumptions about traffic, potential sales and ad clicks. Few Blogs and Forums sell much if anything and that just leaves ad clicks. Forums are very poor at generating ad clicks as Members tend to become completely blind to the ads and don't click them at all. Much of the traffic to blogs and forums is repeat traffic and they are even less likely to click on the ads (not to mention ad blockers). When was the last time you click an ad on here!?
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, there are ads here?!?!?!?!

chrialex said:
Wait, there are ads here?!?!?!?!
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Click to collapse
+1
'nuff said.
I love XDA, for not having those huge ugly pop up ads ! Now days some forums/portals have the ones which can't even be shut !
All hail XDA. It's worth can't be counted in millions or billions of dollars.

He he, in the mean it is:
The site is ranked 1,702 in United States.

price less knowledge!!
swiss420 said:
Found a website that analyzes the value of other sites.
What is the Website Value of XDA-Developers.com
It seems that xda-developers.com is being valued at $13.28 Million. With 1.66 Million Pages and with a World Wide rank of 1,806. Compared to that: Htc.com is only worth $12.66 Million Google is ranked 1 worth $8 Billion and Microsoft on rank 19 worth $1 Billion.
http://bizinformation.org/us/www.xda-developers.com
A little side note, my Blog only ranks at 1.4 Million and is only worth 7800.- For Obvious reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as the guy stated the websites are mostly rated by how many clicks and traffic they have from ads as well. I believe the knowledge that this site provides it's priceless. And because it is distributed free the value ranks it to one of the most important (if not the most important) website from celphone developers to the least know hows users. This website I consider it the Great Library of Alexandria!

nikoskavliaris said:
as the guy stated the websites are mostly rated by how many clicks and traffic they have from ads as well. I believe the knowledge that this site provides it's priceless. And because it is distributed free the value ranks it to one of the most important (if not the most important) website from celphone developers to the least know hows users. This website I consider it the Great Library of Alexandria!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree!!

note, although im not listed on the main post by Ez iam a news writer maybe its cause im still a newbie

Captainkrtek said:
note, although im not listed on the main post by Ez iam a news writer maybe its cause im still a newbie
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Patience, you too will be on the front page.
Lol. So much to be on the front page