Related
MS really need to sort out its advertising campaign i think. Im in the UK and its all very quiet over here, those `really` wouldnt want me to buy a wp7. i was in the US and noticed the presence of WP7 a bit more... but still the question is what is the best way to advertise WP7. what would make you think... i want one of those!!!! doh ive clicked the poll button but it wont give me any options to sort the poll help!!! im sure this happened to me last time.
They need to show what the phone does instead of a bunch of people just using it. The big advantage wp7 has its its unique and fluid interface and they need to show this of more.
I also think they should push the zune pass a lot more as for the law abiding music lovers this is the best music service there is. It also would help if the uk got the 10 perminant downloads a month that the usa get.
As for its presence i don't know if i watch different tv to the rest of you (maybe as my wife makes me watch crap) but i see the wp7 adds more then any other phone though the iphone is very close second.
They also need to check the stores as they are not pushing it bar orange who from what i have seen are the only ones clued up and pushing it (even the tv adverts are for the mozart on orange). When i went to the o2 store the display had 2 demo phones but both where vandalized and just left and the display itself was tucked away round a corner. I think they should also send there own reps out to shopping malls like htc are doing for the desire range and push there brand with there own sales people, displays and demo's. Give people a chance to see it and be shown how it works properly they will love it but one thing i get from non phoney people is that it looks different so they don't know if they would be able to use it then once they see how easy it is there hooked but they need to be shown first before they are sure.
i wanted to poll this how can i do it? when i try polling it did not give me options to type what i wanted.
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Need to tweet this thread to the world
davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right mate. Office is nice. However this should at least match DocsToGo.
It is available for WM and Android.
Current Office is sweet but absolutely too limited.
Seriously, it's not one thing that really sets WP7, it's the INTEGRATION of ALL those things that sets it apart. When I show my focus off to people, I start with the integration with contacts to facebook (that I have their number/email) and show that I can write on their wall, send an email, txt and stuff and if they have an address, how I can quickly map it to Bing and then find directions. Also updating my facebook status and commenting. Then I show them the voice command for search to call people or find a place and directions. The dedicated camera button. Xbox games and it's graphics. I forget to show them Zune (but I don't have a zune pass) besides how if I go to a youtube video that it saves my recent history so I don't have to remember the site. I also show them pics uploading to facebook and show them how my pictures automatically upload to skydrive and tell them about the 25 GB free of online storage.
It's really how all those things come together which is why I love my WP7. It's SYNERGY! lol.
davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
lqaddict said:
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Puhleeezee....
Forget the rest of the features, it's going to be Xbox Live that sells it to the mainstream.. they've already started advertising this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHNWL-WdzsM
wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
I went into O2 today and asked to see the HTC HD7 (was with a friend and left mine at home). and the guy said, yes, but we also have the iPhone and took us to it without asking me. Which greatly saddened me as the WP7 has better features like (bing search to find places near you faster, back button, smooth/glossy/simple interface, Xbox live, better music marketplace, better SDK ect). but if you don't know much, you would have go to the iPhone. Yet another idiot who doesn't know anything about phones. Selling phones >.<.
All of them partially! I mean none of them separately is SO amazing but TOGETHER...
You don't believe Facebook is the only key selling point.
You may laugh but office IS important too.
The mix is important. Fluid modern OS. And integrity with MS services.
Also the fact that WP7 devices are highend. Good browser and Email. Homescreen.
Its a tough choice I think which comes down to personal preferance at least it shows that wp7 has a lot of good things working for it. Looks like Xbox live is taking a good lead Microsoft would be wise to exploit their Xbox users to give wp7 a good advantage over other phones
wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree, Lol!
WP7 actually has better Exchange support than Android, and the data on the devices are more secure than on Android devices.
But given who you quoted, I'm not surprised
Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.
action_efn_jackson said:
Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and it's US only.
Fine for most business users
lqaddict said:
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I own 2 small businesses and WP7 is fine (better that WM and Android for me). I'd wager most WP7 users are not in large corporate environments where email security is on the forefront - I can't imagine anyone hacking my phone for my email.
davidebanks was serious in recommending WP7 for business users. Probably the majority of them, as there are many, many industries with mobile needs that don't need such airtight email security (it can still be fairly secure, btw).
To say that he shouldn't be serious and to quote your Chief Security Officer's cute little one-liner dismissing every device on the platform as a toy is a disservice to those using this tread for what it is intended for. There is a thread comparing WP7 to Android, btw.
N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As in a Google App or Andriod OS?
As posted at L337Ware
I'm not some kind of communist hippie but I have to admit it's nice to get a high quality free application that isn't marred by Ads every once in a while. I've noticed a trend of sorts lately that alot of applications I originally downloaded aren't offered for free anymore or now have Ads plastered about them. In a matter of fact I probably need to consider how I'm going to update some of the reviews already on this site.
This leads me to wonder why? Is this a sign of things to come? We are already being charged a premium for XBox Live games in comparison to the titles on other platforms even in the light of some missing features. I've kind of attributed that to supply and demand though and know the prices will drop as things become more competitive. Perhaps the initial offerings were a simple test of the waters? I've considered this as developers are still trying to get their footing on this new platform. Regardless it still kind of feels like a bit of a bait and switch to the end user.
That being said I understand the need to cash in because I know some of these applications took a considerable amount of time and effort on the developers part. Honestly I wish as much consideration was placed on developing new business models as producting new products in the mobile market. Creative uses of Geotagging, cameras, and perhaps even social networking could be used as opposed to damaging the user's experience.
Since I kind of dropped the gauntlet there I will cough up a few examples.
Geotagging - The user has to go to say a store in order to unlock an application. This would also work with a setup where a purchase has to be made if a code was offered on the receipt.
Cameras - Scan a bar code for this product using your phone to unlock application. This could even change from month to month as the app relocks.
Social Networking - Like this page on Facebook and keep it liked to keep app full featured or follow this entity on twitter to unlock app.
I'm not saying all of these ideas would be easy or even effective but the current models could definitely use some work. At the end of the day I don't really blame the developers as they are doing what they need to in order to justify their hard work. I believe the burden really falls on the creator of the platform to step up and separate themselves from the pack. In this case I hope Microsoft moves a bit faster than their competition.
L337Ware said:
I hope Microsoft moves a bit faster than their competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I lol'd.....
Seriously though, I noticed on the app store the other day that there's a Lego game where you can unlock in game items by going to a shop and scanning the bar codes on actual Lego products so what your suggesting is probably already happening on a small scale, if not its right around the corner.
MS will probably catch up in 3-4 years ....... just kidding.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Given the three alternatives you proposed, I'd take ads in the app over all of them. All of those would be far more annoying requirements than a minimal ad that I most likely won't respond to anyway. In those cases, I have to go out of my way to locate a product and allow someone else to be aware of my activity.
All things considered, I think I'd rather keep things as they are. Many of the ad-based apps I have now only display the ads on title, setup, and other ancillary screens, not during the main functions of the app. That seems like a reasonable approach.
I can see where you are coming from. Thing is I tend to get very annoyed when I accidentally click an ad while trying to use an application. Seriously I'm not really a professional in the field of digital marketing but if I can come up with alternatives that easily there definately has to be a better way.
L337Ware said:
I can see where you are coming from. Thing is I tend to get very annoyed when I accidentally click an ad while trying to use an application. Seriously I'm not really a professional in the field of digital marketing but if I can come up with alternatives that easily there definately has to be a better way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never accidentally clicked an ad in an app. Either you need to start using higher quality apps or finetune your motor skills
Sure, your alternatives are interesting, but how exactly would developers get paid using them? Take the FB/Twitter like/follow scenario for example - sure, you gain a bunch of followers but there's no money changing hands.
Scanning a barcode could work for branded apps, i.e. the app is commissioned by the manufacturers of the product in question. But apps like these are generally free anyway - unless we are talking e.g. Lego Games where this approach would be great (although, including a code INSIDE a box of Legos would be better in terms of revenue).
I really like the GeoTagging idea though, but again I'm not entirely sure how you, as a developer, would leverage this. You could do what Cocktail Flow has done and sell your app for $$$ but include an in-app code-redemption (or in this case, Location-based) system of sorts where the full app unlocks. It sort of limits your reach though as you will either have to contact retailers (or theme parks, coffee shops, etc etc) all across the globe to strike deals with them about kickbacks.
Generally speaking, using GeoLocation or Barcodes is pretty smart, but not for the average developer. Too much overhead in terms of administrating the scheme. For branded apps I definitely think we'll see more taking advantage of this to unlock "special" features or offers though.
As an interesting side-note, there are fairly huge discrepancies between countries in terms or trial-to-paid conversions and the like. The US seems to be very low on the list in buying apps at all whereas Australia is on top when comparing the same app, with an equal price. As a "desktop" ISV I've never come across this before (the US has always given very high trial-to-paid conversions for me) so there is something about the mobile sector that makes people vary about purchasing apps. Even comparing a $20 desktop app with a $1 mobile app the desktop app has higher sales. My take is that the app "bubble" is about to burst.
how dare the devs make money???
Research has shown that ad supported apps do better than paid apps. I would gladly pay for any app over an ad supported, but apparently I'm in the minority on that one.
Just ask the indie developer Elbert Perez, over 100k made on ad revenue...
ad free - the wonderful application that blocks ad related sites systen-wide. love it !
emigrating said:
I've never accidentally clicked an ad in an app. Either you need to start using higher quality apps or finetune your motor skills
Sure, your alternatives are interesting, but how exactly would developers get paid using them? Take the FB/Twitter like/follow scenario for example - sure, you gain a bunch of followers but there's no money changing hands.
Scanning a barcode could work for branded apps, i.e. the app is commissioned by the manufacturers of the product in question. But apps like these are generally free anyway - unless we are talking e.g. Lego Games where this approach would be great (although, including a code INSIDE a box of Legos would be better in terms of revenue).
I really like the GeoTagging idea though, but again I'm not entirely sure how you, as a developer, would leverage this. You could do what Cocktail Flow has done and sell your app for $$$ but include an in-app code-redemption (or in this case, Location-based) system of sorts where the full app unlocks. It sort of limits your reach though as you will either have to contact retailers (or theme parks, coffee shops, etc etc) all across the globe to strike deals with them about kickbacks.
Generally speaking, using GeoLocation or Barcodes is pretty smart, but not for the average developer. Too much overhead in terms of administrating the scheme. For branded apps I definitely think we'll see more taking advantage of this to unlock "special" features or offers though.
As an interesting side-note, there are fairly huge discrepancies between countries in terms or trial-to-paid conversions and the like. The US seems to be very low on the list in buying apps at all whereas Australia is on top when comparing the same app, with an equal price. As a "desktop" ISV I've never come across this before (the US has always given very high trial-to-paid conversions for me) so there is something about the mobile sector that makes people vary about purchasing apps. Even comparing a $20 desktop app with a $1 mobile app the desktop app has higher sales. My take is that the app "bubble" is about to burst.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Way to be disingenuous...
Desktop apps are easier and better to use, and are usually worth the extra cash. Higher rez graphics, better graphics in general (even with Integrated cards) and generally of higher quality with better support IME.
But it's not hard to misclick an ad when apps seem to have them on the bottom on one screen and at the top of others, and some apps randomly change ad positioning.
It's part of the reason why I uninstalled AlphaJack. There aren't enough people on the platform to not have a ton of "dead" games in your list, and the Ads move from top to bottom on different screens. Also, Ads on the top of the screen in Metro are just terrible, and prone to misclicks because the gesture area is up there (to see your Wi-Fi status and Reception level)... Ads on the bottom are prone to misclicks because the menu and app control buttons are down there. Ads generally look pretty bad and do not fit within the GUI, either...
All those ideas are pretty terrible and with gas prices these days it costs more to go to the store to unlock an app than to just buy it. For me and where I'm located, I could probably buy 10 apps with the gas I wasted just to unlock one app...
How about they just give longer trial periods so that we don't have to buy basically every app on impulse. Very short time limited trials (i.e. Android's 15 minutes), and feature limited trials (many WP7 apps) do not give me incentive to buy anything.
Most functionality we need on a smartphone is trivial to obtain via stock apps, anyways, besides games.
Your options 1 and 2.. Have the user buy something else, or get close to a for-purchase product, to make the app free. Your option 3.. follow them on a social network, never give them any money.
Why not just skip a burger/beer/brownie and give the dev a couple of dollars for the app? I don't understand people.. they'll pay $10-$15 to sit in a movie theater for 2 hours but won't spend $2.99 to use an app everday forevermore. YOu said you respect their time and effort, do you really? Don't forget that they have to pay to be in the Marketplace.
Look, I'm a regular user too... I'm hesitant to spend on something when I don't know if it's good or if free alternatives will do it. That's why MS put trials in. Unfortunately MS wasn't smart enough to have a 3rd category between "paid" and "free" called "trial", so people just browse free apps and devs have to do ads to make money.
This still isn't a big deal. The app's free. The devs support their users for free. Maybe we should be telling Google etc to find a revolutionary new complicated business model and stop sticking ads in our web pages
MSdoes have trial apps.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Add suported model is also the easiest to gain money, no paperwork with ms. A few clicks and your good to go, plus you can serve a much larger crowd since a lot of people can only use free apps on wp7.
Even a big part of europe does not have the possibility to buy apps yet and you dont want to exclude your own countries people ( in my case), your friends and family.
Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/user/windowsphone
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use some marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!
maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?
Aerik said:
Mango is enough to compete well against other major platforms. But I personally believe they need to market more. Android didn't quite get popular even with good updates and a handful of devices. But it wasn't until the DROID ad that it started to penetrate the market. Everything is solid, and it even beats Android in customer satisfaction(57 %) but the scary fact is, it still lack brand awareness.
The youtube channel and the videos produced are excellent in showing off its elegance and unique features but they fail to present it on TV, Billboards, etc.
C'mon Microsoft! You got everything, now use your marketing skills to get your brand out and market share up!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).
google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
And really, continually bringing up the lack of google applications on WP7 is pointless, why not ask google why they block WP7 users from their services? MS just released Hotmail for android, why isnt google as considerate of their services USERS and provide their services to all smartphone platforms, rather than try and punish users of WP7? Gits.
ammarmalik said:
maybe the one thing they don't have is marketing skills?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I so would've bought windows after seeing this advertisement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sforhbLiwLA&feature=related
And let's be frank everyone else would after seeing Ballmer's performance. More iconic than developers developers DEVELOPERS
efjay said:
google maps does not an OS make - or break. There are other things that make WP7 worthwhile, like local scout, Zune, Xbox, Office. Each platform has their pluses and minuses, none of them was born complete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Local scout, only works as advertised in the US.
You also have to change all your settings to US on your phone in order to perform bing map searches outside of NA and UK. Pretty user friendly.
If I wanted to control my Xbox from an iphone or android I couldnt but could on WP7 (when the app is released), does that make those OS's less functional to their owners?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xbox Live functionality is not a 'critical' feature I was referring to. I'm talking about things like transit directions, worldwide map search support, audio file support, email inbox search, etc.
Also, re: "(when the app is released)" - my understanding is people don't buy phones based on what apps it may have 6-12 months from now.
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
madmaximillian said:
Yeah, we'll see how currently complete mango is with general smartphone users.
Here's a test:
I live in a city and just bought a Windows Phone. Cool!
Once I'm done class, I've got to visit a museum in the core of the city. Should be fun. Let's get some directions.
Current Location ->to-> Royal Ontario Museum
Cool, it's showing me driving directions. I'm not driving there.
Where are the public transit directions? I live in a city, where the hell are my public transit directions?
No public transit directions.
So I call my friend asking them if their smartphone has transit directions. Yep, their iphone and android are hooked up to google maps. So I visit the app marketplace to download google maps. But I can't. So I visit the google maps website on IE, but google maps is banned on windows phone devices.
So I look for an alternative maps app on the marketplace - one that has transit. But there are none for my area.
-
Seriously, recommending a windows phone is hard once people tell you they need their smartphone to "do what my current smartphone does."
Because lots of people need things like public transit directions, for example. I mean, a huge market for smartphone users lies in metropolitan cities.
Bing Maps, and the Windows phone as a result:
1) doesnt support public transit, and
2) is highly unsupported outside of the US.
I love the windows phone OS, but MS is taking their time, and until they catch up, the phone simply doesn't provide a number of critical features. Not 'fluff' features, but important make-or-break features.
I'm aware Nokia Maps is 'coming'. But until it has, and until it proves itself to be comparable to google maps, users switching from other smartphones to Mango will feel like they're downgrading in some areas.
Users who switch from android to iOS, and iOS to android, don't feel that - they get, at the very least, basic critical map and navigation functions thanks to partnerships with google. MS's obsession with the underdeveloped BING service is hurting the windows phone (and imo will hurt Windows 8 as well) since you're forced to using bing within the OS whether you want to or not).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Improving its service availability in the world is already their best marketing stratergy.
henry084 said:
Really, if MS want to success in this world and earn big bucks, they have to look after the needs in different places instead of just in US.
Being international means the service has to be accessible from anywhere, and the information should be fully descriptive in any countries. (esp. the maps and search engines)
Google has invested vast amount of money in placing servers in different continents and gathering information for its international class services, e.g. mail, maps, search engines. Where are MS's efforts? I would like to see.
Smartphones do require a good infrastructure as a support. Apple and Android uses google services, and MS use Bing services. Is Bing services well structured? If not, should they either improve themselves straightaway or let people use other services temporarily?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
sayonical said:
Can we NOT turn this into a bash wp7 thread like the countless others and actually discuss how MS could improve their marketing stratergy?
They hired Brandon Foy who did the gorgeous wp7 fan video. They should have him do a flashy 30 second spot with the HTC Titan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.
Madmaxmillian, I didn't know that. Thanks.
No problem
You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.
madmaximillian said:
Agreed. MS seems to be pairing with Nokia for their maps service, but still Nokia has even worse international data. They have better maps, but MUCH worse directions, hardly any locations information, and Nokia software isn't linked to anything (such as your contact lists).
Google services are great because they link with each other, and are dependable and work anywhere. They are a crucial part of what makes today's smartphones 'smart' phones.
Word of mouth counts as marketing, in a way
Plus, if WP7 gets features that people are used to, people will be more inclined to switch. I know many poeple who know what WP7 is, but won't switch because it 'feels' to them like the first gen iphone. The iphone 1 was great, but you wouldn't switch from an iphone 4 or 3gs to one. And that's how people feel about the windows phone - it's cool, but it doesn't have the features that will make switching to it possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better maps is already better than maps with limited information, now Bing maps is still rather empty in East Asia region. (They have just fixed the Japan ones recently.) I hope they can combine those two together to form a better one.
For me, like Mango which can filter your contact lists is already fine as far as I can filter out the phone list for use, since a smartphone is still a phone. I have my facebook acc, e-mail acc, and dial lists. I don't want to search things in a mixed pool as it is inefficient, also I don't want to reconstruct the whole list as the work is enormous. (Just imagine when you have 500 entries in your Facebook account, 200 entries in your e-mail/MSN account and 150 entries in your phone book, then you will know how painful it can be.)
---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------
Wyn6 said:
You're right, word of mouth is a form of marketing. I know because based on my word of mouth, 10 people have switched to WP and another 3 plan to do so, 9 of those are from Android, the others are from the Pre and feature phones.
But, since this is a marketing thread about what MS should do to gain more awareness of the OS (not sure how Android and iphone keep coming up in threads that have absolutely nothing to do with either of them) let's talk about that. I will however wager $20 that the normal handful of windows phone opponents will seek to make this anything but what the thread is about.
The stuff that Brandon Foy is doing is great in a hip, upbeat sense. But, it's far too busy for the average television commercial, at least in the U.S. It would behoove MS to have something that is more straightforward and to the point.
A series of spots showing various features of the phone. Show what's unique about the phone, UI, Live tiles, Hub Concept, Integration. Show this with "real people" in "real situations" using the phone's features.
A Voiceover as a girl sits in her room at her computer. She pops up and starts throwing on clothes.
VO: "A night out with a few friends."
She taps the Bing button and brings up Local Scout. She taps an event.
VO: "Bing Local Scout can help you finds great things to see, do, eat, and drink in any area. And, when you do, you can get in touch with the people who are important to you anywhere, anytime... on Facebook, Instant Messenger, and Text"
How about...?
Show the switch to text from Facebook
VO: "All in the same conversation without ever leaving the messaging hub."
Sounds great!
She steps out of the door of her urban apartment. It's night time. She doesn't walk but somehow moves down the street, the world around her blurs by at hyperspeed. The Phone is in constant view of the camera.
VO: "And, if you need to keep in touch with all the people who are important to you in one convenient place, you've got groups for that."
The Groups Tile shows a kaleidoscope of pics then flips to show "New Messages". She taps the Groups Hub on her phone that reads" The Crew/Guys" She scrolls through to show the people in her group then hits sms.
Text: On my way.
She stops. A dress in a store window with an expensive price tag catches her eye.
VO: "Something catch your eye? Let Bing Vision help you find what you want."
She uses Bing Vision on the tag to pull up a better deal elsewhere. She smiles. That's going to be her new dress.
Again she moves without walking, city lights strafing around her. Suddenly, the world seems to slow down and goes back to normal as she has arrived at her destination.
She opens the door and goes in and...
SURPRISE!!!
A large group of friends shower her with confetti as she enters. A great big smile, a laugh, and hugs.
"Windows Phone. Put People first."
Whatever. Something like that.
For non-US or countries that don't currently have access to Bing services there would be a showcasing of other features.
Also, you could have spots show off several features w/ voiceover and end with the voiceover saying:
VO: "Oh. And, apps... yeah we got those too."
You would then go from a TIGHT shot on the famous Wall of Apps to a quick PULL OUT and REVEAL of the thousands of apps the platform currently has.
Anyway... something along those lines or variations thereof. The main thing is to show WHAT the phone can do and what is unique about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can tell, without the backup of such services can be fatal to a smartphone, esp. when people are relying on maps and search engines nowadays. iOS and Android can success because of this. MS would fail if they are still limiting their services in US, and WP7 would be just an American pride, like the sports car Corvette.
I think what Microsoft really should rely on is the features that are directly built in Windows Phone. Sure, Android and iOS can do a lot, most definitely still more than WP7 can do. But they heavily depend on apps. You need apps for every single **** you wanna do with these devices. The out of the box experience is pretty low in my opinion. That's where WP7 makes the difference. And that's what Microsoft should show people.
When will the widespread and accepted use of NFC in America happen? We've had it on phones for about 2 years now but it's still not implemented fully. Almost all new android and a few WP8 phones are getting it, but it still doesn't have great usage. Among us technologically advanced people it has uses but what about everyone else? Wallet seemed strong. It with everyone blocking it it's iffy. The s beam commercial is helping but it's still not @ it's potential.
Sent from my razr m using xda app-developers app
IMO once the carriers get sorted with NFC mobile payment. and integrated into our public transit systems it will start really kicking off. At least thats how it is in Japan. Unfortunately the average consumer wouldnt likely take advantage of the more complex, yet outstanding features. Even something such as tasker integration seems too difficult for most consumers. However, add wallet less payment and instant rewards, they'll be all over it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Widespread acceptence is quite a broad request. Once peer-to-peer mode is widely available on handsets the standard will likely be used to exchange data or play simple games with each other. Exploring reader functionality for non geeks will probably be more widespread over time. Features like business cards etc may take of as well as other cool stuff that is done via tasker. You always have to see though that making stuff with tasker etc requires a bit of knowledge by the user hence why there are many users that may never use nfc with its potential because they just don't know / understand how to do it. Not every smartphone user is sufficient in programming etc. (A fact that is forgotten by many devs these days it seems to me.)
Use cases that will require card emulation will take quite some time though. Number one reason is that manufacturer and service providers try to block each other. Number two reason is that there is no standard out there yet. Wanna use Isis? Well buy an Isis ready phone (those are smartphones with a special version of the OS) etc. Right now every NFC payment and physical access service requires a different service provider specific OS. As long as this does not change I doubt its going to get widely spread.
At least 2 or 3 more Years would be my vote. So I take 2014
NFC
Honestly, I just found out about wallet a few months ago, sadly enough. Sounds like a promising technology though. The GS3 commercials were classic in illustrating its....capabilities...
I don't think, NFC will see any widespread uses anytime soon.
Configuring your phone by tapping it to a tag is a geeky thing to do. Most people are not geeks. They either go with a mediocre "one size fits all" setup or will manually adjust their devices whenever needed to avoid the learning curve and the additional costs of programming tags.
Wireless money transfer? Dream on! That's the wet dream of the banks. Who are interested in putting transaction fees on every purchase. Only problem: even non geeks understand that paying by just holding the phone next to a reader will make it subject to e-pickpocketing.
onyxbits said:
I don't think, NFC will see any widespread uses anytime soon.
Configuring your phone by tapping it to a tag is a geeky thing to do. Most people are not geeks. They either go with a mediocre "one size fits all" setup or will manually adjust their devices whenever needed to avoid the learning curve and the additional costs of programming tags.
Wireless money transfer? Dream on! That's the wet dream of the banks. Who are interested in putting transaction fees on every purchase. Only problem: even non geeks understand that paying by just holding the phone next to a reader will make it subject to e-pickpocketing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, most stores here in NYC (including Macy's, which has non-geeky people) have Google Wallet compatible card readers. There are Samsung ads on my campus and in the city on telephone booths that say "Tap your phone for free music/eBooks/videos". It's spreading slowly but surely. It's available on pretty much all phones coming out now, and stores and other places of interest are starting to take notice. I mean look at the latest Samsung ads. People with iPhones keep asking me if they can do "the bumpy thing" to send things to each other.
Product F(RED) said:
Dude, most stores here in NYC (including Macy's, which has non-geeky people) have Google Wallet compatible card readers. There are Samsung ads on my campus and in the city on telephone booths that say "Tap your phone for free music/eBooks/videos". It's spreading slowly but surely. It's available on pretty much all phones coming out now, and stores and other places of interest are starting to take notice. I mean look at the latest Samsung ads. People with iPhones keep asking me if they can do "the bumpy thing" to send things to each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, NYC, but we were talking about widespread adoption, which to my understanding means: pretty much everywhere, not just in the hip places. Around here, I see little about NFC technology. In fact, NFC was one of the reasons for me to get a Nexus 7. I was rather disappointed when I found out that non of the major hardware stores seem to carry them. Personally, I think that availability of tags is a major factor for achieving a breakthrough. That "bumpy thing" is cool in the ads (isn't it nice how marketing is able to play us by appealing to our primal instincts?) but in reality is stopped in it's tracks if you don't have compatible devices.
It'll be adopted widespread when iPhones finally adopt it..then everyone will act like apple invented the best thing since sliced bread and fall down and worship the all powerful "i"
thewarhawk said:
It'll be adopted widespread when iPhones finally adopt it..then everyone will act like apple invented the best thing since sliced bread and fall down and worship the all powerful "i"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. The least common denominator.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
There are plenty of devices around, but we are lost with a simple task - how to get a device with steps, hr and sleep data accessed directly from a device?
In general we wish to find a device with a very simple developers' manual where there is a description how to get a specific data from a device using only a BT. So no additional apps need to be installed on Android, no cloud solutions sending data somewhere to USA, China and similar.
We tried:
1. Angel sensor wristband - they closed their business
2. Microsoft band 2 (they have their own app, but still..) - they abandoned the product
3. Pebble watch HR - you know the story
4. Mi band
Now we are w/o options and I really wonder:
1. Why every device maker provide their own application (usually with very low quality) which sends data to cloud? Is it:
1.1. because they analyze the data and sell it to some advertisers?
1.2. because they wish to establish Apple like - echo system? C'mon if Apple did it there is no proof that FitBit, Jawbone, Misfit or .. (put a name into it) will do it.
So my question is: is there any device with a small direct access description? We do not need an API, we just need a protocol description..
Why we need that - there are some regulations which forbid to send data somewhere w/o control (like seniorscare, eHealth, military). It is frustrated that we can support more than 100 sensors with out iotool.io smartphone IoT gateway, but no wearables
Any suggestion?
SenLab said:
We tried:
1. Angel sensor wristband - they closed their business
2. Microsoft band 2 (they have their own app, but still..) - they abandoned the product
3. Pebble watch HR - you know the story
4. Mi band
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the problem with Mi band and Pebble?
SenLab said:
Now we are w/o options and I really wonder:
1. Why every device maker provide their own application (usually with very low quality) which sends data to cloud? Is it:
1.1. because they analyze the data and sell it to some advertisers?
1.2. because they wish to establish Apple like - echo system? C'mon if Apple did it there is no proof that FitBit, Jawbone, Misfit or .. (put a name into it) will do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose it's because a very small market. Microsoft has decided not to catch users with their bands - it shows us the value of the market for big boys.
chinesesmartwatch said:
What's the problem with Mi band and Pebble?
Pebble bankrupted. It is hard to get Pebble2 HR, no support; it is a new product, so we are not aware about possible firmware bugs etc.
Xiaomi has three wristbands - all three closed. It took us 3 weeks to support one of them . With good documentation the estimated time to make our iotool.io extension for specific sensor: a few hours.
I suppose it's because a very small market. Microsoft has decided not to catch users with their bands - it shows us the value of the market for big boys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, however there are hundreds of wristbands around from small manufacturers. Every wristband has its own application with rating on Google Play around 2/5. So it is possible to connect it to Android phone. But there is no documentation about comm. protocol. So wristband manufacturer made a bad application which is bad for business, but still don't wish to provide documentation. I think that is a bad decision (don't wish to use stronger words here )
SenLab said:
there are hundreds of wristbands around from small manufacturers. Every wristband has its own application with rating on Google Play around 2/5. So it is possible to connect it to Android phone. But there is no documentation about comm. protocol. So wristband manufacturer made a bad application which is bad for business, but still don't wish to provide documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried to contact manufacturers? It seems that another application for their wristband, which is delivered for free, should be interesting enough. But the problem is to find a proper person, who has some motivation for supporting such offers. Most chinese manufacturers are screened with relatively dumb marketing stuff and their internal bureaucracy is horrible. Aliexpress sellers sometime can provide some pieces of documentation, but it's in chinese and not complete. However, googletranslate can help to get some protocol details. Also it is useful to reverse engineer their applications, but it's very time consuming. Another problem here - how to chose a device without any idea about it's sensors quality and even about the presence of some sensors that often are just virtual things and only able to load some trash from internet.
But if you are a paid worker of iotool.io then may be it is possible to convince your boss to spend some money on a serious screening of at least some manufacturers. Some bracelets are very cheap (5$) and in case of presence of a good application the market share can be very big.
Thank you for your help. I'm a CEO of SenLab, maker od IoTool. And believe me, we invested a lot of resources into that. But, there is no real support, firmware change, models change and similar. It is not possible to support this. And, we do not wish to invest into every wristband, but to ask big players, what is in their mind? Some of applications from big and well known providers are rated around 2 on Google Play. No one wish to use them, but big players are stubborn and just follow their route.
SenLab said:
I'm a CEO of SenLab, maker od IoTool. And believe me, we invested a lot of resources into that. But, there is no real support, firmware change, models change and similar. It is not possible to support this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion if you have enough resources then finding a responsible manufacturer is absolutely possible. Of course, it wouldn't be a big company, but there could be a good and cheap product that requires just a better application. However, I don't know your business strategy and may be such approach is not for you.
SenLab said:
And, we do not wish to invest into every wristband, but to ask big players, what is in their mind? Some of applications from big and well known providers are rated around 2 on Google Play. No one wish to use them, but big players are stubborn and just follow their route.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big boys work as follows:
They look at the market, they see a successful company, they copy the company's strategy and don't care about anything else. If anybody want to convince big boys to do something then most probably they think the person wants a free lunch and just ignore him. So, you need some connections within the company or you need a well known name for them to listen to you. And it means just one thing - only small and medium sized companies can be targeted by you (if you haven't connections, of course). But you don't want to invest into every wristband, so, there's nobody left for you - big boys won't listen to you and you won't ask some little boys.
Also the logging strategy of iotool.io is not very convenient for many people. People mostly don't want just a logging of some data from some sensors. They want something more useful, like heart rate monitor or calories calculation. Sensor set is just a way to provide the final product - the really needed in real life. Good sensor set can provide better final product, but the task of deciphering of some useful conclusions from logged data is not for the majority of people. So, you need to connect the logged data with people's needs. And while there's no such connection your product will catch only the small market of enthusiast users.