Develop Bugs

Note to NOOBS. You're really annoying. READ!

Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work and you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.
WM6 is new. SO NEW that Third-Party app developers haven't gotten all their fixes in. Our ROM chefs aren't responsible for those errors. Research and develop a fix, wait until someone develops a fix, or wait for the app developer...But before installing a rom you need to weigh whether or not it is worth it to loose some of your favorite apps. If you must have SPB plus and you read that people are having issues with it don't install the rom UNLESS you want to help find the fix. IF NOT...WAIT until the app developer upgrades their app. Don't install it and then post complaints and threads.
The chefs of these roms aren't here to help you setup your device and to solve all of your issues. If you have issues read, search and fix them. The research is part of the fun...finding fixes is part of the fun. Finding new ways to configure your device and setups is FUN. By asking first you're not participating in the best part of the forum.
As for fixing the "noob" issue...I think there is one pretty good solution.
I think the only way to fix such an issue is to either restrict new users from posting in the the WM6 forums for a period of time after joining. Hopefully you'll use that period of time to read. Because if you choose to install a rom and you know you can't ask a question you'll probably be more apt to read.
I'm not anti-noob. I was a noob once and I am still a noob in many ways. I also know that there are some good noobs in the forum. But I'm tired of taking the time to read the threads for critical information and coming across posts for how to install a new theme or where did the backlight on my keyboard go. That's where your user manual or the HTC website comes in. For Cingular people you have a great resource over @ the Cingular forums.
This is a community of like minded technical individuals. This is not HTC tech support or your carriers support. No one here owes you ANYTHING. You install a rom it's on you. If you can't take the responsibility then don't install the rom. It's pretty simple really.
I just had to get that off my chest. I'm sick and cranky but that only played a small role.
Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
X (donning flame suit)

Helping is useless you just get bashed for it. Instead of putting useless programs that the "chef" uses they could spend that time using the carrier files located in the rom kitchen to help out users which takes all of what 3 minutes if that to recompile for a carrier. This would be much more productive then *****ing when someone tries to help by doing that. It's a joke suggesting someone help when they get nothing but grief and sarcasm when they do.

the time it takes to put "useless" apps in a rom is about 40 seconds.
99.9percent of the time is spent on optimizing the OS to ensure i runs efficiently and stable.
Carrier settings are a big no no as the ROMS being developed should be portable from one carrier to another. the perosn who installs the ROM should know what their carrier settings are etc.... not the ROM chefs.
EDIT: there is a fine line between "helping" (ie developing a fix and posting it in the official rom thread) as compared to re-releasing the hard work that went into optimizing wm6 etc and just adding one XML customization (what you did)
Also note, that recompiling a compressed ROM will cause issues to the people that have installed it. you must decompile the original OS.nb that hasnt been compressed.

jasjamming said:
the time it takes to put "useless" apps in a rom is about 40 seconds.
99.9percent of the time is spent on optimizing the OS to ensure i runs efficiently and stable.
Carrier settings are a big no no as the ROMS being developed should be portable from one carrier to another. the perosn who installs the ROM should know what their carrier settings are etc.... not the ROM chefs.
EDIT: there is a fine line between "helping" (ie developing a fix and posting it in the official rom thread) as compared to re-releasing the hard work that went into optimizing wm6 etc and just adding one XML customization (what you did)
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Yes, you have proved you dont give a **** seeing you post the files that dont work

tell WPbear that and the hundreds of people that got cingular working with that.
And just to remind you its not my job to ensure u set up your carrier. You found a fix, damn mate, post it in the thread.
Although this is an open source community in a way, it is still harmful to the developrs if their work is ripped off without courtesy. ASk first then post later, not post first and hope its ok!

this matter of discussion will stop right now. by the fact that your posts were deleted by mods is a clear sign that you push the boundaries of helping.

jasjamming said:
this matter of discussion will stop right now. by the fact that your posts were deleted by mods is a clear sign that you push the boundaries of helping.
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You must have missed the part where I could care less if they were or not? Who are you to say when this will or will not stop? I could care less if you have more pull here or not the forum is bullsit pulling favortism.
/story

xultar said:
Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work and you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.
......
Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
X (donning flame suit)
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I agree with you that people shouldn't have complained too much on this and that regarding the ROMs cooked by our good fellows.
However I believe there is a better way pursuading people instead of yelling here, in this way you are not much different from those people.
Also you make sounds like it's a must to donate. Well I believe ROM chefs were doing this voluntarily without any intension to collect money. It would be nice for people to donate as a kind of support, but putting it this way may have make it sounds like there are financial motivations behind this ROM cooking thihg.
Anyway, well done CHEFs, keep it up.

AdamZhang said:
I agree with you that people shouldn't have complained too much on this and that regarding the ROMs cooked by our good fellows.
However I believe there is a better way pursuading people instead of yelling here, in this way you are not much different from those people.
Also you make sounds like it's a must to donate. Well I believe ROM chefs were doing this voluntarily without any intension to collect money. It would be nice for people to donate as a kind of support, but putting it this way may have make it sounds like there are financial motivations behind this ROM cooking thihg.
Anyway, well done CHEFs, keep it up.
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no its not a must to donate... but its nice to be appreciated especially when the 'CHEF' has spend hours upon hours of his time and experience to benefit the community... honestly where would we be without these guys??? we would have locked handsets and be stuck with crappy carrier ROM's...

Hmmm
The noobs who post the ridiculous questions that have been answered many times before are (by their very nature) highly unlikely to read or care about this thread.....
Whilst I agree with some of the underlying points (read the wiki and the threads, use the search function etc) surely the more people who get interested in these devices, the wider they will be available and the better support etc from the carriers and htc will be available, meaning people here can spend more time developing rather than fixing bugs? The initial post just reads as if basically if you are not an experienced developer then you can just **** off. Not sure if (a) that is how it was meant or (b) that is the majority view.

Me thinks that xultar and custel need to grow up! Although you both evidently came into this as experts(sic), some others did not have your apparent vast wealth of experience to fall back on. To insult senior members, mods, and our chefs is unacceptable behavior! I, and I am sure others, are hoping to see you go!
The search functions can be a bit of a challenge....LOL, but insults and criticism are not needed.....Do us all a favor and just leave!
Okay.....there's my 4 cents worth..........
Later

NOOBS are ok i guess, but I like like BOOBS much more! We need more BOOBS around here! ;-)

cruiserman said:
NOOBS are ok i guess, but I like like BOOBS much more! We need more BOOBS around here! ;-)
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Even better NOOBS with BOOBS,

ElGato65 said:
Even better NOOBS with BOOBS,
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... or boobs with noobs

ROFLMAO!!!

Same song, different forums. Yes, the noobs need to read the wiki and learn more, but we've all been there and need to remember what it was like getting yelled at in the forums. Yes, some of the "experts" think they're on a pedestal and can be huge jerks, but they've seen the same 10 questions about 1000 times and they help create noob resources like the wiki and the cool roms. Most of us are sitting in the middle just watching both sides screaming and thinking, "it's just a forum, wtf?"
I realize that the real issue began because of all the noobs bricking their phones trying to do things they don't fully understand and the animosity that comes from the ROM archive being removed as an indirect result. In case no one has noticed, this is not exactly an underground site and has become pretty popular with the increasing popularity of HTC products and the fine work that many of the contributors here have done. (Not to mention all the ppc sites that have linked to this one.)
The original post had some good points and I think was well-intended, however, Custel and Jasjamming decided to bring their personal beef with each other into it. If you two would like to argue with each other, feel free to use the private message function. Neither of you are helping this topic and only furthering the idea that a low post count means you're flame bait and a high post count means that you're allowed to tell people what they can and cannot post openly in the threads despite not being a mod. The moral here? We're all part of the same community here, so stop pissing on the neighbor's flowers and just tell him calmly that you're allergic while keeping in mind the other neighbors might like them.
As for the noobs destroying their phones with software they didn't understand and asking really simple over-asked questions, maybe we should make a quiz of basic information that pertains to each model and the information needed to do basic mods to them that all members have to answer with a certain percentage of success before allowing posts or access to download links (exluding a few basic forums). Each group that's active enough could make up their own pop quiz (Hermes, Trinity, etc...). All questions sourced from the wiki of course. Just a thought, since the only other suggestion seems to be to scream at the new guys and tell them to read (and search, which btw, really sucks on most forums since you have to know exactly what you're searching for to find anything useful in many cases).

having successfully upgraded several different models of HTC device to WinMo6 I know that there's very little risk from the process and a hell of a lot to gain.
Nobody here with a new-ish handset that's considering the upgrade is destitute and penniless, considering what the devices cost I'm beginning to wonder why donations to either the chefs or XDA devs isn't the norm...
Seriously, there are a lot of tight bastards around here, more than there are 'new' users who can't be arsed to use the search before opening the 30th thread asking for help on the exact same issue.

Post from a NOOB
Guys,
Let me give you a viewpoint from a NOOB. I would not call myself technically challenged nor lazy, but definitely new to this wonderful forum where some people who are way more cooler than me have found ways to help me make better use of my handheld than what I had stock.
Yes, I read the Hermes wiki checked through all (or the threads I thought were relevant) to make sure that this was something I wanted to (and could) do without bricking my expensive device. Even though I thought I read quite a lot, and did everything the wiki said, after I did something I could not verify whether what I did worked or not (like the time I SuperCID-ed my phone and did not know what the steps where to confirm it happened). So I ask. Some times people answer my questions, sometime they dont.
Yes, noobs need to know not to quote large message chunks, they need to read before they ask. I agree to all that. But some people say things like if you are not technical dont even bother to be here, that's insulting.
Though I read and re-read Xultar's initial post and I did not see anything there that really insulted me. I think he had a valid point that if you think you are faint of heart, please stick to your carrier's forum. These forums and this great site is for those adventurers (it just gives me an ego boost to think that way ;-)) who like to go where no man has gone before.
I have been here probably 2 weeks, and I feel like I found a place where I can belong. I just wish I were cool enough to really cook some ROMS. But I think I can get started in small ways.
Jasjamming, I understand your frustration when people take what you have taken great pains in doing and then repackage it, especially without your permission. No excuses for that. But it does not behoove for someone of your stature in this community to bad mouth people. I (and am sure more noobs like me) look up to people like you, kyphur and LVSW who can do things that most of us can just dream about. Just let go or I am sure that the moderators of this forum can remove those posts without much problem.
Sorry for the long rant, but I like this place. And felt I had to weigh in on this conversation.

CUSTEL said:
You must have missed the part where I could care less if they were or not? Who are you to say when this will or will not stop? I could care less if you have more pull here or not the forum is bullsit pulling favortism.
/story
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its not about pulling favoritism, its about respect... if you want to use someone else's work for your own then ask permission from the creator and give credit where credits due... the chefs work hard on what they do, kyphur, jasjamming, etc.. all of them.. spend countless hours developing cooked roms for everyone, donations or not.. If you dont like the rules of the community then there are other boards you can point your browser to. Most of the times when you ask permission then the chef will be more than happy to lend you a hand...
Now everyone play nice or find a different board.

shogunmark said:
its not about pulling favoritism, its about respect... if you want to use someone else's work for your own then ask permission from the creator and give credit where credits due... the chefs work hard on what they do, kyphur, jasjamming, etc.. all of them.. spend countless hours developing cooked roms for everyone, donations or not.. If you dont like the rules of the community then there are other boards you can point your browser to. Most of the times when you ask permission then the chef will be more than happy to lend you a hand...
Now everyone play nice or find a different board.
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Please delete this thread. I'll send a PM to a Mod as well.
Thanks.

Plz Help

there are 5 kinds of WM6 upgrades.how do i know which one suites my hermes or at least which one is the best?
mine is still WM5,still new at this

i'm new to this as well. i chose the LVSW one.

bteljuice2 said:
there are 5 kinds of WM6 upgrades.how do i know which one suites my hermes or at least which one is the best?
mine is still WM5,still new at this
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The answer for this question have the same as for this other one "How do i know wath car is the best for me?"
Really you must read (lot of read) and then, if you are sure wath you are doing and wath you are looking for, take a test on every ROM....
Of course, Wiki http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Hermes must be your starting point.
Regards.

bteljuice2 said:
there are 5 kinds of WM6 upgrades.how do i know which one suites my hermes or at least which one is the best?
mine is still WM5,still new at this
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jcespi2005 is right - you need to do a lot of reading. This will give you a feel for how stable a rom is and how muck tinkering you need to do to get what you want.
I'd recommend Black 2.0 - it's great and stable. Also the LSVW roms are great, but there were some reports on a White Screen problem for some people. I haven't tried Dutty's rom yet, and I'm eagerly waiting for Kyphurs WMXL0.3 which I also think will be very good.
I'd also recommend flashing Olipros HardSPL 1.40 before you begin because it will help you if you have any problems later.

I will reiterate what ach2 has said.
Read... a lot. Wiki, forums, etc.
Also, I would recommend Black, although others have their favorites.

WTF is with that title. did u read the rles on posting? did u search at all? did u read anything that has been posted? have u followed any thread at all?
this has been asked, answered, discussed, compered, contrasted and debated.
pick a phone, pick a rom. dont like the rom change it.
make up ur own... mind if u have one.
most importantly RTFW do the research. do ur home work. put some effort in.
change the heading on the forum.

Simon,
Wind your neck in mate - your post just makes you sound like you're some jumped up moron with an attitude problem.
There are much nicer ways to tell people that they've asked a stupid question and this is something that has been discussed on this particular forum...at length. Your post adds nothing to the thread apart from unnecessary vitriol and repeats what several other people posted before you - except that they were much nicer about it (and used things like capital letters and punctuation
Either drop the attitude and try and be a little more helpful or ignore posts like this and STFU.
Thanks.

Lordsmiff said:
Either drop the attitude and try and be a little more helpful or ignore posts like this and STFU.
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Cheers! Reason!
Anyway. It is a matter of trying them out and seeing what you like. Personally I started with WMXL 0.20 and am still on it. So I haven't found out what the other are like. I'll try Black 2.0, or 2.5 if its out by then , when WMXL 0.30 comes out. And if some required functionality isnt there, i'll go on to WMXL 0.30.
Basically. Read until your eyes just about fall out on HOW to upgrade. Then just pick whatever rom seems like a good idea at the time. The more important bit is making sure you do it right, then you can flash to a different one later (plenty of good info in the forums and on the wiki).
Maz
------------
http://maz.net.au/
With too much to say about anything and everything

the famous mr poleman posted this in 2003 and has represented the guiding light and rule on posting rules since that date.
Perhaps maybe somebody could make reference to it WHEN CREATING POSTING TITLES at least.
i express my deepest and most sincerest apologies to all those that i may have offended... i am simply just a little frustrated seeing these posts with nothing but useless headings like pls help or error and like.
so... if the be all and end all of postings could be followed since 2003 and applied to all since that date maybe i would be more helpful and less frusrated.... so for those that didnt know or didnt read perhaps a revisit
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=221545
lordsmiff i bow to your righteousness and will do as u ask when people start following the guidelines and rules that have applied since long b4 u or i ever got here but seemed to be disregarded.
btw i was nice just wait ill i am really upset. at the moment i have been on this forum for 2hrs after working 14hrs and i see topic headings like this. pls forgive me my grumpiness and intolerance. i am usually more helpful and just lost my patience.

We're all grumpy sometimes dude, me included - and I got told the same thing not too long ago ;-)
So not exactly righteous, more of spread-the-love thang ;-)
Join the light side - take the path of righteousness - spread the love!
----
Oh, and to be a little more on topic, I've tried them all with no particular favourite, though I do like the LVSW one with the green skinned comm manager

New Rom Poll Rate Your Fav And Say Your Like And What Can Be Improved.. N00bs Wecome.

Ok i said i would make a new one so here goes. This is a place where you can tell what you like about a rom and what you think could be adressed. Please keep it on topic and Maybe the new people can look here first and pick which rom they will flash but before you do please read the Wiki and all the other posts that are stickys and there is a great upgrade guide made by MrVanx which can be found here! So go read... Anyone that has something negative to say well I could careless cuz I'm not here to make friends just pimp my Hermes! this place is full of great cooks and true WM guru's read and learn not post and ask is your best bet in the start
http://www.mrvanx.org/cms/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
Black 3.5 is not included since it is no longer posted or supported on this forum however my black 3.5 super lite is
Please Note new comers that we do not have the time to give nice happy responses to questions that have been asked 1000000 of times so its best to search about your issue or question before starting a new thread I have warned you and will now say that with starting a new thread you leave yourself open to being flamed and abused in all kinds of ways if your question has been talked about before....

this is a good idea. I will be creating an excel spreadsheet to document this if we get some good responses. chefs contact me for log.

diff
Whats good for one user is not good for another thats why the poll does not make sense. An updated chart of tweaks, programs installed and kernel and perhaps what the rom is geared towards would be more useful.

lets all grow up a little.. if you dont like a thread that someone made then dont post..
Post's have been deleted for not really being on topic

I voted LVSW. It is a Vanilla flavor of a STABLE ROM. I have my own CABs for anything else I use. Did I mention it was STABLE!!!!!

shogunmark said:
lets all grow up a little.. if you dont like a thread that someone made then dont post..
Post's have been deleted for not really being on topic
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Well it's not the first time you delete threads that hit the heart of a topic, remember when i started a thread on WM6 for the Herms long before WM6 was even a thought of running on the Herms and you deleted posts in my thread and changed my topic? It's all kiss ass even between some of the mods here if you ask me In the end this poll still SUCKS!!!

I picked LSVW after using all of Blacks ROM's that produced unstable results with MMS and repeated resets.

As I have only flashed and run two of the WM6 ROMs that have been posted, I don't really know how valid my vote is, but I chose Custel's work. I decided to try his 2.5 Cingular version mainly because of the way Custel handles himself in the forum, and also because of the good reviews he was getting in his threads.
This ROM has been very stabile on my device, even with the plethora of apps I choose to install. It is faster than any of the ROMs I've used, including a few shipped versions of WM5, and the storage and program space it gives me is wonderful.
My gratitude goes out to Custel, all the other chefs, and also to the brilliant people who've created the various tools required to pull off this ... um ... competition. And also to XDA-DEV for it's hosting of this fabulous site.
Regards,
-pvs

Black???
Departure Jasjammina from xda- dev should not be reason rendering his ROM from inquiry popularity. Inquiry without Black ROM them as car without wheels

wpbear said:
I voted LVSW. It is a Vanilla flavor of a STABLE ROM. I have my own CABs for anything else I use. Did I mention it was STABLE!!!!!
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these are my words
Matrix44

DAFTEK said:
Well it's not the first time you delete threads that hit the heart of a topic, remember when i started a thread on WM6 for the Herms long before WM6 was even a thought of running on the Herms and you deleted posts in my thread and changed my topic? It's all kiss ass even between some of the mods here if you ask me In the end this poll still SUCKS!!!
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it wasnt about deleting because they may or may not have hit the heart of the topic, thats all up to personal opinion.. when i saw the topic and replies i was looking at it in a different direction; "can this thread be helpful to others?" so i answered myself yes and continued playing waste management. its not about kiss ass either, its about keeping things calm around here, everyone complains about n00b posts, etc.. but no one wants to help make it a better place.. I would have done the same thing if you had posted this or some n00b with 1 post under their belt and things got out of control.. its simple.. IF YOU DONT LIKE A THREAD THEN DONT RESPOND TO IT... if no one responds then it will fall to the bottom of the list, its that simple
~no reply is necessary, we are just hijacking this thread, if you have a problem with me, or my moderation style then pm

Good to see LVSW on the list. His ROMs have always been very stable.

@shogunmark..... And i agree with you 100% on that response but, Can you see that in the end this is still a fight between JJ's Black and the rest? Custel? Only that austynsnyc is the puppet here Maybe i am wrong but this is why i don't like this poll and if i am then you all have my apologies and ill go back to my corner.

Sleuth255 said:
Good to see LVSW on the list. His ROMs have always been very stable.
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If you cant beat them, join them, so i did.... I voted LVSW #1 overall best, then all the Variants also deserve credit for the final iron works...
Also may i add, That even after the second time around on this poll the first time he was not included, this time YOU GOT HIS NAME WRONG IN THE POLL lol

I'd like to make my vote, but there must be an option to choose more than one version... i think...
And like to see Black in the list...don't understund why isn't in the pool...
Regards.

for those of you that did not follow the first one. Black has been taken out because JJ is not releasing his ROM on this forum and this poll is open to ROM's released in this forum. Yes there have been many polls before and I'm sure there will be many more unless we have one stickied!! Hint Hint... this is a good place to talk about what you like and what you would like improved in the ROM. thanks for the strict moderation. Sorry for spelling LWSV name wrong oops... at least i think i have all the major players this time until the next batch comes along.
Personally i like my ROM's because they have the extra stuff that i never use taken out and the major stuff still left in which give me very large storage to add what ever i like and not worry about it also i always run a 4MB pagepool which i believe is faster and more stable than a 6MB

austinsnyc said:
Yes there have been many polls before and I'm sure there will be many more unless we have one stickied!! Hint Hint... this is a good place to talk about what you like and what you would like improved in the ROM. thanks for the strict moderation. Sorry for spelling LWSV name wrong oops... at least i think i have all the major players this time until the next batch comes along.
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What about the posibility to choose more than one..... can you do this in the poll?

no the whole point of this really is so new members can come here and look at what other people say about the roms and and others views and maybe help them in finding out which one is right for them with out asking the time ending question ""Which Rom is The Best"
we all know all the ROMS released here are fuken great but some people like different things thats all thats why i ask everyone to write there like and disslikes about the rom the think is the best for THEM... all these roms benchmark the same pretty much so deep inside there are only a few key changes such as kernel XIP and so on but most members dont know about that stuff they just want to know if it works and what cool apps it comes with

DAFTEK said:
@shogunmark..... And i agree with you 100% on that response but, Can you see that in the end this is still a fight between JJ's Black and the rest? Custel? Only that austynsnyc is the puppet here Maybe i am wrong but this is why i don't like this poll and if i am then you all have my apologies and ill go back to my corner.
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that may very well be... but someone out there is going to read this thread and find some of the informational useful and will make their decision based on it. But i do think that all the roms, even jj's should have been included, he isnt the first chef to move their roms and support, sometimes its just natural progression..

Agreement
Agreement - thank you

Mun TE versus LVSW 2.0.11

Hi guys (first post!)
I have a couple of questions before I flash WM6 on my trinity. The two main versions are MUN and LVSW's flavours of WM6. However, I would like to know what are the main differences between the two current latest versions (such as OS/program versions, program lists etc).
How is the stability of either of these versions compared to my factory Orange M700 (WM5)?
What are the main bugs?
Is it worth flashing a buggy WM6 over a stable WM5? What are the advantages?
Thanks in advance for the replies

Hm, threads like this can sometimes kill good collaboration, even when they don't intend to. You should heed the statement inherent in your moniker. You are who you are, and you should chose accordingly.
They are both good ROMs. Read through the threads, learn a bit about both, then decide which one work better for the person that you are.
Do us a favor and delete this thread.

iamwhoiam said:
Hi guys (first post!)
I have a couple of questions before I flash WM6 on my trinity. The two main versions are MUN and LVSW's flavours of WM6. However, I would like to know what are the main differences between the two current latest versions (such as OS/program versions, program lists etc).
How is the stability of either of these versions compared to my factory Orange M700 (WM5)?
What are the main bugs?
Is it worth flashing a buggy WM6 over a stable WM5? What are the advantages?
Thanks in advance for the replies
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Read through the threads. Read the wiki. Do searches.
Try each rom (there are more than just these two, rom variants exist too) on your device...decide for yourself, according to your needs.
Nobody will respond to a poll like this, who respects the work of XDA rom developers, because it's not in the spirit of of this site.

DeviLduck said:
Read through the threads. Read the wiki. Do searches.
Try each rom (there are more than just these two, rom variants exist too) on your device...decide for yourself, according to your needs.
Nobody will respond to a poll like this, who respects the work of XDA rom developers, because it's not in the spirt of of this site.
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Nothing can substitute your own personal experience, it is the only important thing in this trip called Life... In every area and in every situation, give it a try...

I buy a Trinity. I find a forum dedicated to my new wonderphone on the internet. There are so many pages on this forum but I manage to find details of WM6 ROMS available for my device. But the threads for each of the main ROMS are like 100 pages long. Can you imaging reading through all that? Me neither - so I'll be clever, start a poll and let everyone else summarise the threads and decide for me. An idea nearly as genius as my new phone. If only life were so simple.
Now think about it.
1. If everyone created a new thread like this, we'd have a site full of crappy threads, non of them with much information (nobody is going to repeat their reply posts time and time again to the same questions/issues. The site would be rubbish
2. Your usage of the ROM may differ from others and you may come across some "bugs" that nobody else has - you thereby contribute to the development of the ROM by highlighting difficulties that you have - and things you like about the new ROM build.
3. How good a ROM is depends what you do with it or what you want to do with it. Do you video call a lot? Do you MMS a lot? Do you email a lot? Is taking photos with GPS coordinates the most important feature for you? These things will influence your choice of ROM.
So to reiterate: give them a try, read through the threads (all of the work, experiences, information is there - but need to be read - nobody will summarise for you), don't expect any nealed's ROMS are by far the best - don't consider anything else type of answers - you won't get them (each ROM has it's merits and if there was a ROM so buggy that it was awful, I think you would probably know about it through the posts in the threads), and lastly, once you have tried different ROMS share your experiences. But remember facts and data - (this does not work, that seems slower, this option has disappeared) rather than I prefer, I think etc - which is a lot less useful.
Welcome to xda-developers iamwhoiam. Be yourself and express yourself, but don't try to rubbish the hard work of any one ROM developer over another.
Now, in the wise words of MacGuy2006
Do us a favour and delete this thread.
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Keyboard color and remove HTC home
sorry worng thread

MODS deleat this Damn Useless THREAD
Yo!!!! MAN "IAMWHOIAM"
U might be nuts and really Damn mad,
Man If u wanna check both great cookers Roms, so why hell u dont try it BOTH and check yourself, No need to compare any Roms here, because no one Works for you Damn it and U are not Obliged to use any roms of any Cookers Nor to Offence them. So Damn it your Useless questions and remarks to hell and Keep it for yourself.
Here Guys days and nights are making great and wonderfull jobs, really hard works and DAMN NO ONE PAY THEM FOR ALL, And nor they have any obligation towards Us. All brothers, friends, Cookers, Helpers, Testers are here to make this Community to be better each day and each times.
So man, i really dont know From where U fall out, but "Brother" Tight your nuts well and Keep your mouth shut from Asking NONSENSE. Thank You to Better Understand NOW.

That this is an "unhappy", "uninspired" and "let the others decide for me" (as nealed said) thread, true.
That fresh users nowadays don't use the search funtion, true.
But there's no need for being cruel, rude and impolite.
Maybe we would need more mods to sort things out, delete/move/ban/etc. threads.

Uncoordinated ROM development efforts

hey guys,
don't know if this is the right place, but because Chefs should read this in first place, the general board seems not the right place either. But this is the same problem with application development either, so developers may read and post too. So not to bother you all furthermore, i'll start right through:
I wonder about
- 50 different ROM development projects (what could be a good sign, if this would not be)
- 48 concurenting projects which do not share know-how (reading statments like: "I will not tell you, what i did to the ROM to archieve...")
- 98 times uncoordinated simultaneous identical work is done(including, not concluding, tools, tweaks, apps, complete roms ...)
Why do we behave like the people because of which we've started this hole thing here? We do keep know-how secret like the builder and oem manufactorers do or did. Instead we should discuss our know how publically and organize our work and efforts as a community and not as individuals. There is enough space for every way of thinkin inside organized structures left (e.g. speed or stability optimized roms, ...) - but what the one project discovers or experiences should be known by the other projects too, that's what is called synergy. We all could profit. Thats the sence of a community. This feeling i miss here a bit to be honest.
And to get concrete i'd suggest further organizational investigations. Some guys did start some already good ideas like a complete guide to dumping, cooking, etc. or a thread where design stuff is listed and linked centrally, or for example the thread where ROM's get tested for speed and space independently. We should take this last idea further and add information to this comparison, about what was done to this ROM's to archieve the projects defined/assigned goals.
This way we could test RoM's concerning to manipulations and would be able to find out what is really happening in our systems (denpenency of [OEM]pakages) and what we can really do to improve a certain goal of tuning.
Furthermore we would not do identical work a thousand times, and so would be able to serve an easy diamond-click-kitchen to the community and last not least to ourself's.
There are not that many intentions possible in RoM development:
Speed
Space
Stability
Gaming
Office
Weird?
... ?
We should now start a thread (and maybe a database) to get our know how organized and start workin together instead of against each other. We (including, not concluding, me ;-) all do owe some guys here in the forums a debt of gratitude for their work and efforts. I'm happy to see that some people are donating, so some guys get a beer payed which is a nice honoration (but no payment). The more i'd be happy if not two developers do the same work simultaneous. Let's get that organized!?
So now i did state some philosophy, followed by some concrete input - now it's your turn to do so ;-)
Best regards
peet

I totally agree.

I do agree with you but this behaviour is found NOT JUST HERE, but in almost all organizations regardless of occupation. Some of us work as a Team more then others but individuality and uniqueness is part of human natures need to be competitive. I really wish we weren't like this.
The purpose for me on this forum is to share my knowledge on to others. I believe most people like to do the same. I think if there are secrets here, then I believe they are kept secrets for branding purposes. To make a name for themselves and to distinguish themselves from the rest.
Based on the post that I have been reading from ROM Threads, I always see chefs thanking each other for sharing. So sharing is happening but maybe not in the most efficient way.
Hmm....hope all these feelings being shared are not taken the wrong way here. Just me thoughts from Psych 101 and my experiences.

band27 said:
So sharing is happening but maybe not in the most efficient way.
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I totally agree.
seeya

hallo,
i have a little problem to understand your thread. 99% of not-understanding is my english and 1% is your long text without any .. ähhm .. development.
can you say me in one sentence and no more than 10 words what you want?
okokur

I'd like to take the opportunity to say thanks to the majority who do share. A couple of months ago, to flash meant only showing off, and cooking was just for a good meal. With the upgrading, cooking tutorials, wiki and dozens of helpful replies to questions, I'm on my way to cooking my first ROM. Just wish I knew more to contribute something more technical myself. This board has some of the most helpful threads I've found. Thanks once again.

I agree, but there are a couple of problems with this.
1.) some people just don't want to work in a team.
2.) today, those who flash on a daily basis know all (or at least their favorite) Chefs by name, and what their ROM contains. This would be lost.
3.) continuing the previous thought, Chefs would lose motivation, if their name was one of 38 people who made the ROM, in the "credits".
4.) donations. would you spare 5-10$ each chef who contributed? that'll be one pricy Rom
I'm sure there are other problems with this as well, these are just of the top of my head..
but, I do support the idea, the development looks unefficient. At least from a users' point of view..
I've just reread your post, maybe i didn't quite get it. Do you mean something like a thread where all the new knowhows would be listed (though, WIKI is probably better).

slovoflud said:
though, WIKI is probably better
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That's exactly what I thought after reading the opening post
A wiki doesnt force anyone to do anything, but those who want to share their knowledge do have one central place to do so. Probably would reduce the amount of 'stupid' questions as well, or am I the only one who doesnt feel like searching through a ****load of topics for answers

I really like this idea
I hope that rom developers starts working together, providing even better roms for the users
that would be great!

yes shure, wiki would be the right place to centralize know-how, the problem with the wiki is that most information doesn't get there. I mean, there is no board around containing this know-how that xda does. but this know-how must be searched first in thousands of threads and millions of posts. and that is hard work,guys.
i just changed from a Mteor to a Diamond and had to invest several days (or have it been weeks?) to get the story in the diamond wiki/boards. one problem is that a lot of outdated information is found and second that information is split that hard. and likewise know-how is split apart.
then i realized most times when i searched for some information, i found hits in kaiser or raphael or somewhere else forum. too there seems to be organized projects workin together in those places.
In Diamond board only few kitchen are found, and not really a lot information about them either. I tested some, but only one was able to build a RoM out of the box. And i remembered Kaiser kitchen and wondered why this is not possible here likewise. While searchin for information i had to realize that here is no kitchen found documented enough to start building my own RoM in a nutshell nor in 3 days, possibly in a week but realistic it'll be in a month maybe. all that just because i wanted my next device to be theftsafe (because providers do everything to keep that thing running as nobody does something [what shure would/and was possible] against stolen devices - no, they do not get excluded from networks (except very few providers) - nor do they get excluded international or worldwide. You may think now, okay then let your device be trackable through services like PiCO. Even that is ratted or hindered by providers, but that is another story.
About the money mentioned above: I was lost in the opinion i would be surfin a community here, which is something where money does not exist really. I am glad that people did donate for a bricked chefs device for example, and i appreciate donations to well doing developers and chefs, but this can't be a point in discussing a communities life or behaviour. But if you are thinkin this way (and i still don't know what you want here then), then please think a step further and realize that: If you offer (maybe as xda-organization or other) a workin kitchen for daus, where contents and trimming can get selected, licence information can get added and that all gets build in a "personalized" RoM, MAN a thousands of people would be even willing to pay a hundred bucks for that. And i bet even on donation basis there would be enough money to share. But back to community.
Some ingenious anonymous teacher did ask me above, what i'd want then, in one sentence. I can tell ya - i want a snicker right now. Thanks for your contribution to the community development. It's that helpful as those "you should use the search" statements of people tired of tellin people same info twice, while not gettin tired of tellin people that they would be tired of them askin tiring questions. Ey guys you really bore, ääh get me tired ;-)
But to get concrete again, i think because of the wide range of device configurations and languages it would be good to develop ONE kitchen together, where it is possible to select a source for building freely (e.g. your own RoM, a Chefs RoM, a providers RoM, or whatever), then give possibilty to change language, select tec. specs like pagefile, etc., select packages to exclude, apps and licences to include, select design patches, CFC and other tweaks, select tweaks and last not least burn your RoM.
That'd be kickin ass guys doesn't it?

I know it would nice to have just one ROM developed, but then again this is reality, people have different preferences. I am sure Chefs share their recipes between themselves.
anyway, u guys may wanna check this out
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469420
ervius have done a fine job there.

Kudos.
I completly agreed with your point. Ive seen a lot of ROMS from wanabe cheffs and others that are from great chefs which enhance the OS deaply. Its sad to see comments that not help in the evolution of our devices. Ive not many Mods around, perhaps most of them got their hands on the HD.
On the other hand everyone must be able to post any Cooked ROM they want, but they have to make sure that something is different about othe developements, like Language, or included APPS or particular tweaks.

the way i see it - MOST chefs don't do cooking for public... they cook for their own need and according to what they like - then they share with the public... there's nothing wrong with that... and they don't need to share anything...
and i have noticed they always help you out if you send them a private message.
my two cents

cloudedhopes said:
the way i see it - MOST chefs don't do cooking for public... they cook for their own need and according to what they like - then they share with the public... there's nothing wrong with that... and they don't need to share anything...
and i have noticed they always help you out if you send them a private message.
my two cents
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I used to think like that too, not anymore.
Vise versa.
If you read any thread with a 'popular' ROM, it's easy to see that it's not made for Chefs personal use( perhaps it was originally, but then it becomes a project).

hi all,
first i have to state that i shure do not want to force anybody to nothing. but i see too much people doin identical investigations. therefore i wanted to ask for others opiinion.
somebody sayed, that people might not want to work together wich sounds kind of weird in a community while shure nobody gets forced to share, equal if know-how or work. and somebody said that chefs want to read their name above their work or thdy would loose interest to do something. if those peoples interest or motivation is only to distinguish themselfes it would be sad, but no prob-let them do so on their own.
me would like a ROM without my name, but which is realy coool a lot more.
so first point would be, that all chefs write their know-how down in the wiki, so we can see which way we should start making a universall ROM which can then get tweaked and ppersonalized individually but the base is always the same for all. if the base is really good, all people could profit from that BaseROM!
at the moment i cant see which packages are corresponding to others and cant get removed easily. tooo it would be nice if nataly chef would tell us how he did free that much space, e.g.
maybe some chefs are willing to join, so we start a real universal RoM-Kitchen?

i red ervuis thread only short, but that sounds in the right direction, i'll contact him and ask for support.
the main thing first would be to get real good structures (like ervius started) to build a minimum basicRoM which then can get extended - and we need some more input about flash/nand/rom/pagefile/etc use and manipulation.
lets do this organized and structured not to do the same things a hundred times, and to avoid all those incompatibilities between apps found here (in comination a lot even common apps do interact and the result over both/all is a non working configuration. therefore a "standard" should get found for tweaking, cooking and applications too.
how about that?

hallo,
i have a little problem ...
i asked you what you mean and wish the answer with less than 10 words.
you want so much from other people but you give nothing. if i read your thread at first time, i think about you, that what you write is not that what you really want. i think you have problems with cooking and you hope on an easy way become solution.
one kitchen means, one way to extract, one way to cook ... like a one way with no return. if you have trouble with this one kitchen, nobody can or will help you.
i flashed my first pda three years ago, now i have pda number 4 and i cooked my own roms. the reason, why i dont share it, i used original buyed software by softmaker, coreplayer and sktools with integrated registration-keys/methods. this was orig.software and cant be for sharing.
i dont think, that i can learn this things with one kitchen, with one group, with one project. i have to thank for so much people, who spend nights of nights alone for cooking and sharing.
and if i can help somebody, so i do it. but in xda-developers it was not so easy to help someone, because there so so much people who was faster than me ... much much fuster. god safes the "aloning".

Well, okokur, you have a point, but only to a certain degree. You say about bought licenses, that shouldn't be shared. Fair point, but be consequent, and look further. From the legal point of view, 99% of cooks don't write the code - they only manipulate dumped software - and it's hard to say if this is legal. Sooooo... what I'm pointing at?
That this way or the other, everybody is to him/herself. I only don't understand why some chefs are locking their roms against uncooking - it's like you stole a car, and put an alarm on it against thieves.... Ridiculous.
All cooks should take example from people liek CT or mondilv, who share openly their develpoment. And that's the way. If you are just a bit inclined, you can start cooking yourself. If you are not, you will lazily wait for a rom done for you, and complain about what is in rom, what isn't, etc..
So - my advice/opinion - you will never get cooperation like you wish, because that's human nature. But it would be enough, if cooks would leave their roms open - then people who want to learn, would learn.

I can only agree... for what I can do due to lack of time I always publish the full kitchen source in my/our repository, so the rom isn't just opened but I publish the full kitchen tree with all scripts almost commented and/or other useful stuff
If I can help in other ways please just write down a line
bye,
davide

mjaxa said:
Well, okokur, you have a point, but only to a certain degree. You say about bought licenses, that shouldn't be shared. Fair point, but be consequent, and look further. From the legal point of view, 99% of cooks don't write the code - they only manipulate dumped software - and it's hard to say if this is legal. Sooooo... what I'm pointing at?
That this way or the other, everybody is to him/herself. I only don't understand why some chefs are locking their roms against uncooking - it's like you stole a car, and put an alarm on it against thieves.... Ridiculous.
All cooks should take example from people liek CT or mondilv, who share openly their develpoment. And that's the way. If you are just a bit inclined, you can start cooking yourself. If you are not, you will lazily wait for a rom done for you, and complain about what is in rom, what isn't, etc..
So - my advice/opinion - you will never get cooperation like you wish, because that's human nature. But it would be enough, if cooks would leave their roms open - then people who want to learn, would learn.
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you are right.
i think, i can share my rom without buyed software ... but for diamond there was so much roms, thats no needed share a rom without any interesting features.
recooking roms not possible ... for flasher only its enough. for cookers exists a trash-folder on desktop
cooperation like my wish ... i am to old for other oppinnions so i respect other oppinnions for 100%. (its reading like type mismatch error )
if i start with flashing and later i want cooking but that was to much infos and to much rules for cooking ... that i wish ONE KITCHEN with GFX-USING by klicking "KLICK-KLCK" and NO-ERRORS and NO-BLACK-SCREENS ... And if i read this thread the first time, i see me three years ago
i understand peetx for 100%