Related
Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work or if you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.
The chefs of these roms aren't here to help you setup your device and to solve all of your issues. If you have issues read, search and fix them. The research is part of the fun...finding fixes is part of the fun. Finding new ways to configure your device and setups is FUN. By asking first you're not participating in the best part of the forum. Questions like...my keyboard is wrong and it doesn't look different or I can't connect to the internet are redundant. Those questions have been asked, answered and fixed OVER-AND-OVER AGAIN....WHY KEEP ASKING?
I'm not anti-noob. I was a noob once and I am still a noob in many ways. I also know that there are some good noobs in the forum. But I'm tired of taking the time to read the threads for critical information and coming across posts for how to install a new theme or where did the backlight on my keyboard go. That's where your user manual or the HTC website comes in. For Cingular people you have a great resource over @ the Cingular forums.
This is a community of like minded technical individuals. This is not HTC tech support or your carriers support. No one here owes you ANYTHING. You install a rom it's on you. If you can't take the responsibility then don't install the rom. It's pretty simple really.
I just had to get that off my chest. I'm sick and cranky but that only played a small role.
Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
When I posted this the first time I was trying to prevent what has eventually happened. We've lost one of our genius rom Chefs. So...thanks guys!
Admins....
As for fixing the "noob" issue...I think there is one pretty good solution.
I think the only way to fix such an issue is to either restrict new users from they'll use that period of time to read. Because if they choose to install a rom and they know they can't post a question they'll probably be more apt to read.
I agree with Xultar that a minimum registration period before posting should be enforced, and any BLATANT stupidity should reset the period.
This seems like the best idea. Someone mentioned having a sub forum only accessible by experienced members. Denying read access to the masses however would make this a very exclusive club, which I do feel strongly about.
I am still a relative noob, but found this site and was reading away well before getting my first WM device. It was partly this site that gave me the confidence to try such a device instead of a dumb phone. If I had looked around and seen only the stupid questions, with an inaccessible sub forum that I could not read, then I would have moved on elsewhere and not discovered all the things I have.
I guess it all depends what the key developers here want to achieve. If it is an exclusive club where everyone is a technical whiz then OK I am screwed and will miss this forum. That decision is however entirely theirs to make and no one has the right to tell them what they should or should not do or judge them in any way.
Along with many who do try to avoid asking stupid questions and do try and RTFW first, I can only hope that they choose to try and spread the word so to speak - don't mean to sound all preachy and religious - and that a way can be found to reduce the hassle they get from morons.
I remember seeing one of Sleuth's posts - he said he took no responsibility if anyone chose to use that bit of software and if you bricked your phone it was on you and hard luck. He also added that if that did happen, he would however do his best to help fix any issues. Exactly what I wanted - I knew the risk and choice was mine, but knowing that someone with a lot of knowledge would try and help was very reassuring.
Anyway, thanks to all the deveopers who have helped with the Hermes forum, and to anyone who wants to flame me, just please keep it civil. (There has been rather too much rudeness recently, as tensions seem to have increased... - just my view)
I agree, a "seniors only" forum section would be advantagous but would repell alot of potential members.
I made my guides to help the newbies along the way but i have always said to read the threads and RTFM in order to increase thier knowledge of the various things we do here. Yet still I get very STUPID questions which have been addressed in the guides, why should I write them if people arent going to read them correctly!?!? (rant over hehe) Thankfully on the whole I havent had so many annoyances as jass and the rest have.
I figure this is like a game of lemmings, theres only so many levels you can go through guiding them on the way before you lose your rag and blow them all to hell!!
If people have simply signed up to get thier chosen version of WM6 then piss off thats exactly NOT what we want! ROM chefs dont spend the time to cook these ROMs for people to just download then come back whining when they dont fucntion as they want.
As I've frequented my fair amount of forums, I'd suggest for specific ROM Downloads, or Radio Downloads, Cab files, that users there me be a hidden link and set for users to see if they have a certain amount of posts. Good to that is that you will see Quickly who is simply spamming to get access. Just a thought... I've been able to SuperCid, and Sim Unlock, as well as upgrade to WM6, just by reading several posts and the WIKI. It's really not that difficult.
Even me would not be able to access with some of these restrictions, but that is alright as something like this is very much needed.
ROMS = 50 posts, or active for 8- 12 months
Radio = 40 posts, or active 6 months
CAB files = 25 posts or active 3 months, etc...
Thoughts???
mrvanx said:
If people have simply signed up to get thier chosen version of WM6 then piss off thats exactly NOT what we want! ROM chefs dont spend the time to cook these ROMs for people to just download then come back whining when they dont fucntion as they want.
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I agree - I joined up before you could even SIM unlock without going through EMEI check. I joined up so as to learn about my device and then help spread the knowledge if I could.
It will be harder to sift out those hit and run artists however. Perhaps say a three month delay before you can download or post? removes the quick fix junkies hopefully - although unfortunately many will now be registered already. Perhaps if the post count is under an arbitrary number then the posting delay would come in, but you could PM a moderator to show you had not asked silly questions and get it revoked? Maybe too much work for mods though.
Agreed, I dont think I have been guilty of blatant stupidity, I have bricked my phone once but enough reading around the various forums and its fixed and fine.
If you arent capable of learning for yourself, you have no real business being here, you certainly shouldnt be flashing a £2-300 phone then complaining when it goes tits up.
PhatFarms approach sounds workable though.
Sad to see Jasjamming go, that kind of altruism is pretty rare these days......
chrisjasper said:
Agreed, I dont think I have been guilty of blatant stupidity, I have bricked my phone once but enough reading around the various forums and its fixed and fine.
If you arent capable of learning for yourself, you have no real business being here, you certainly shouldnt be flashing a £2-300 phone then complaining when it goes tits up.
PhatFarms approach sounds workable though.
Sad to see Jasjamming go, that kind of altruism is pretty rare these days......
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hey guys,
im not going, just laying low for a while till things settle down and become a developer forum again, or atleast not a howard forum.
Good luck sport, maybe now you will have more free time and your wife wont be taking your credit cards away......
Great ideas.
Let's just add taking money for reading the posts (and sending money to the posters) and we will kill this forum forever.
The whole Internet idea, if you like it or not, is to share information freely.
There will always be the lamers that will ask their stupid question, and there always be the people that will share their great work with the others.
Anyone (from either side) can join or leave anytime he like.
Jasjamming (The "black guy") did a great job, I relay mean it.
But his leave would not end the great work of this forum.
l hope he will change his mind and decide to continue his work with the others even that some lamers are here.
I think a senior forum would work.
Sure all the ROMs would leak out onto bittorrent etc, but surely that doesn't actually matter? It would be to stop the n00bs moaning about dead phones. if they don't have the rights, they can't post regardless of if they have the ROM or not.
jasjamming said:
hey guys,
im not going, just laying low for a while till things settle down and become a developer forum again, or atleast not a howard forum.
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Click to collapse
At least you can sleep now?
Jas... do you want me to remove your ROM from my mirror? I noticed you removed your own download link, but I don't know where you stand on mirrors?
It's sad to see ppl who don't want to learn join and ask stupid question.
I have joined since 2005 but never post once
Yes! this is my first post!! haha
I want to thank jasjamming for his hard work... and all the ROM chef.
One of the things that has caused an increase in NooB's (in my opionion) is that knowledge of these roms (as well as links) get posted on to howard forums and those same users come rushing in to download the files without paying attention to the fact that this isn't the HTC customer support forum. I agree with what JJ ended up doing only cause I am STILL reading through that forum and have only spotted about 4-6 actual issues the rest are repeats or dumb comments (up to page 42).
Personaly I am far from a developer, but taking the time reading through threads has given me a lot of knowledge about what my device can do.
I like the ideas of having some kind of feature that NooB's can join, and even download, but at their own risk, and after a waiting period can then post etc. even if you make it just for the WM6 forums until a branded official rom is released in q3
Im wondering what the mods opinion is on this issue??
I think probably the best thing to do is as phatfarm suggested, a postcount limit which you must have before you can download an attachment? Thing is the wiki does have the links to the various ROMs so thats the way you get around it.
mrvanx said:
Im wondering what the mods opinion is on this issue??
I think probably the best thing to do is as phatfarm suggested, a postcount limit which you must have before you can download an attachment? Thing is the wiki does have the links to the various ROMs so thats the way you get around it.
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That in conjunction with a 30 day waiting period would work for Noobs.
I totally Agree
I totally agree with you guys. It's sad to see how things have turned out lately. I have been to this site off and on for a few years now (just reading actually), and loved everything that I read. Now in a sense I can be called a noob (I joined in 2/07), but technically I am not. I am coming from the symbian os (Nokia N93) and the minute that I got my windows mobile phone (February of this year - 8525), I joined this site. I read and read and read, never really felt the need to post, because you can find everything you need either by the wiki or just plain clicking on the search button, but I guess most people don't see that button
Anyway, I agree that something should be done to stop what has been happening in the last month, but I don't think that saying we should have a senior member forum only or you have to have this amount of post to get it, will work. Because if you look at JJ's, Kyphurs, LVSW threads, you will see that there were people who had a lot post and even a few junior and senior members who complained and questioned. There are a lot of people who come on and actually read and never post, because they search and figure things out without having to question these great chefs. I personally don't want to have to come on here and began to post everyday to get to junior and/or senior status. I never once complained since being here and believe me, since the release of these WM6 roms (Kyphur's first), I have been flashing 2-3 times per week. So much, my wife has gotten sick of it.
I think, you should continue to let people join and continue to flash, with the understanding that, they are doing everything at their own risk. What I think should be done is, people who have been a member for 3-6 months or less would have to have there post/threads approved by the mod's before it could be posted. Sought of like on myspace when you post your initial pic, they tell you that it is pending approval and that it if approved, it should be posted within 24 hours. They even have a function where you can have it set on your page, that if a person leaves you a comment, it will not post until it has been approved by you. You can either delete or post it. That's how I have my page set up. It would be a lot more work on the mod's, (I don't even know if that is capable), but it would cut back a lot of stress on all of the chefs and even the people who really sit and read/search and get the answers that they need.
What do yo think?
True, this would be much more easier to contain if M$ didn't shut down the ability to put roms on the FTP. People could earn their way in, maybe give access to certain users could be a lot of admin work entering all the compliant users, I would be willing to help with something to that degree, giving time to those that spend countless hours helping out people like me.
JuniorPhatFarm said:
As I've frequented my fair amount of forums, I'd suggest for specific ROM Downloads, or Radio Downloads, Cab files, that users there me be a hidden link and set for users to see if they have a certain amount of posts. Good to that is that you will see Quickly who is simply spamming to get access. Just a thought... I've been able to SuperCid, and Sim Unlock, as well as upgrade to WM6, just by reading several posts and the WIKI. It's really not that difficult.
Even me would not be able to access with some of these restrictions, but that is alright as something like this is very much needed.
ROMS = 50 posts, or active for 8- 12 months
Radio = 40 posts, or active 6 months
CAB files = 25 posts or active 3 months, etc...
Thoughts???
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Idea sounds good but the noobs do tend to post a lot....
Most of it rubbish or repeated requests over and over and over...........
Another problem is that some of us (like me) have not been on the forums long but are far from noobs because we have only just switched to a hermes from another PDA
Suggest big sign on front page:
THIS IS NOT A SUPPORT SITE
Perhaps longer than thirty days? If you are serious about this stuff then there is sooooo much to read and understand, and then read again. This would hopefully avoid all the
"I just bricked my phone! - HELP ME"
or
"I want Crossbow - where can I download it"
where people do not read first.
Postcount limits might encourage lots of one line no purpose posts, and to sort the good from the bad requires a lot of time and effort from mods.
self inflicted problem?
one of the problems is that most *interesting* posts (new releases, etc) are 10+ pages long and full of pointless posts and cr*p ("can't wait", "downloading now", etc.). reading these posts have become more and more difficult. Doing a search also leads to loads of crappy posts.
The problem is that the higher your rating / grade / status, the more likely you are to have innondated the forum earlier with pointless posts. A senior member-only forum (or similar) will create more incentives for people to post crappy things until their postcount is high enough... don't think this is the way forward.
As for removing the link to WMBlackEd2.0 and stop releasing public updates: although i fully respect jasjamming's stand on this, I think it goes against the spirit of this great place. there is a difference between "decommissioning" something, and not "supporting it" anymore. I feel the link to the download should be there for people to install the rom and try it, and future releases made public (if thats what he intended to do in the first place) but the thread should be a closed one: people, download it and support it yourself or don't download it at all if you don't know what you're doing.
maybe this will deter enough neebies from the site and help make this place the great place it used to be.
the wiki should be used as front page for the site, with all resources there. I am sure not everyone knows about the wiki, as it is somewhat hidden from the main xda-developer page.
just my thoughts...
by the way, I have not posted for a while as i upgraded / downgraded / sorted out issues all by myself after doing loads of reading and searching... but I must admit that only 10% of the posts on the whole site are helpful/meaningful - the rest is an attempt by people to increase their postcount.... and this really puts me off.
[Introduction] As I bought a Tytn in December 2006 I started to visit these forums since then. Although I’m used to computers and programming since at about 1982 I had to learn a lot about flashing, security arrangements before flashing and so on. So I tried to read all the other postings and the wiki. After some weeks I flashed the first Rom, everything went well until now. Then – some weeks ago – Jasjamming was “a bit angry” about all the postings in the Black2 thread. First I couldn’t reproduce his anger but after some days of absence from the forums I noticed that’s its more or less impossible to read some hundred postings with the same topic in a thread. Now JJ again requested more discipline:
jasjamming said:
Therefore a note to Noobs: stop flooding with jargon because you will only be hurting yourself and other members of this forum. Also remember that these ROMS are provided to you by people that do them for fun, we are not your Telco Operator, we dont provide service to you if your 3G connection or access point connections have been erased when flashing. You flash at your own risk, if something goes wrong its on your head. Also remember that the amount of information you get on this forum from other member far exceed the support you will get from your Telco. Therefore dont deman anything and dont expect anything, if someone helps you be grateful.
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This time he did it in a very very polite way and again he is right. I know that I did nothing special for the community besides answering some easy questions and I’m not sure if I’m entitled to make suggestions. Anyway: What about different threads for the next Rom? One as already available for “nontech matters” and “thanks for the great rom JJ” postings, one more for questions like “provider gprs/mms settings” and one for technical feedbacks to this rom to make it easier for the developers to eliminate mistakes and to improve their work.
Just my 2 cents but maybe it works to give better feedback to all the guys who are working hard in their spare time to give us all a nearly perfect working phone.
BTW: I’ve sworn to myself not to answer to statements like this
I'm not some teenage snot noob, I'm a 37 year old professional, running a company... I have better & more important things to do with my life than trawl through pages & pages of threads. .
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but I can not resist, sorry for that . In my opinion its irrelevant who somebody is and what he is doing in his private life and/or his job. If somebody is seeking for advice in a forum like this and he has not time enough to read all the other posts and the wiki/guides then apparently he found the wrong place for asking questions. I for myself wasn’t very impressed that a gentleman who is running a company is posting in this forum (but I would have been impressed if he would have had some useful hints for all). Thanks to wpbear for not answering this posting.
Conclusion: I’m very grateful to all the Romcookers for providing us improved Roms and to everybody who is giving advices, writing guides and so on. Thanks to everybody and keep it up.
Black
I bought the Hermes with great expectation and was disappointed soon with the ROM that came with it. If this site doesn't exist, I would probably had change to the Nokia N95 or something else.
I had flashed the South African ROM first and got it working. Black 2.0 was the only cooked ROM I've flashed. I had a few trouble when loaded tons of software in the beginning. I learned my lessons and hard reset with a little discipline. Black 2.0 has met my need. I run a company myself and I am thankful for those went the extra mile to help others out, something I wish more people can learn from.
I am grateful for JJ and the other chef who had made my device productive which otherwise would have been a total waste.
So, THANK YOU TO THE CHEFS.
if it wasnt for these guys i would still be using wm5 - and italy is usually the last country getting any updates...
LVSW and black are both great roms, i like switching from one to another to see their improvements
i read for hours and check this forum almost daily... i wish i had some knowledge to share but for now i can only learn from the big chefs
keep up to good job guys
@Gerals_S
I have to back you on this. Well said! I will resist the temptation to add more to your statement...
I suggested something similar in this previous thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=306514
however shogun mark says that the admins have no intention of changing the current system and closed the thread.. Am sure they will do likewise to this one...
You suggested sub-forums and this would change nothing. Everybody would post again in one thread and the thread would explode like the others before. I suggested to make 3 threads, for example:
.) Black3,5 - non tech comments
Here everybody can post things like "JJ u r great"
.) Black3,5 - Settings & Programs Issues
Everything about 3rd party software not running, provider settings....
.) Black3,5 - Hardcore Tech Thread
For all the real tech issues and solutions
So JJ could see very clear whether a new Rom is running without issues or not and if he's in a bad mood he could have a look to all the "you are the man" postings in a different thread.
I know the mods don't want to spend their days doing so, but deleting useless comments (I've had a few, myself), wrong thread questions, and literally the same questions asked over and over, and these threads wouldn't be nearly as long. I'm not suggesting mods spend their days doing so, but as they read the threads for their own use and they see someone with 1 post asking where the Cingy version of 3.01 is, I think it should be removed. Just the egregiously stupid questions. How about anything related to BT problems in the pimping thread past the first 3x it was asked.
Also, I read complaints by the senior members that there are too many useless posts, but there are numerous 'senior members' that immediately post:
"Thanks, JJ. Downloading now.", and JJ, wowwwww, you are a god. Will report back with issues", for the first several pages of EVERY new ROM thread that is supposed to be limited to tech issues. For someone who likes to lurk and learn more than they post, this can be infuriating, especially when further back in the thread, those same people start tossing fireballs at the silly posters.
By now, the cooks know very well that what they do is invaluable, and sending them $$ for their effort is a good way to acknowledge it. Maybe if the cooks would acknowledge receipt of donations with a PM (JJ, you listening? I know my donation for Black 2.5 a few weeks ago was only enough to buy a few drinks, but a ty PM would have been nice), people wouldn't feel the need to throw themselves at the feet of these cooks with every new release, update, or utterance.
I think 2.5 spoiled people because it had every flavor for everyone, and people could install it without even reading the wiki. While Mr. Vanx upgrade guides are so useful, they are a shortcut for putting in the time to learn. I think that's why we are seeing so many people upgrading to the latest and greatest (3.0.0, 3.0.1) who have absolutely no business doing so, and then complaining that things don't work flawlessly on beta versions we download from this board.
For the noobs reading this, I for one do not download a new ROM until it has been vetted for a few weeks by the hardcore flashers, AND I stay current with the new rom thread to make sure issues people are having will not be deal breakers for me if they occur. If you are new to this board, and not a developer, read, listen, and LEARN.
Sorry for the long message, but it's getting harder to read all the threads on here. I'm trying, but if I fall behind for a day, it can be brutal to 'catch up'.
ALSO: I just was on HOFO - I go there from time to time and I just noticed many 'senior' posters there are pointing noobs to XDA. If you do this, you are pointing people without a clue to this board, many of whom will start posting silly beginner questions.
On the note of donations, my PM inbox is more cluttered than the threads, therefore I have given up most of the time to read my inbox. But rest assured that your donations are appreciated as I keep developing the ROMS for you guys. If i didnt appreciate your donations I would have stopped releasing ROMS at Blac 2.0.
Therefore dont take offense if i dont PM you back as my time is pretty much being consumed by reading 1000+ posts in a thread trying to sort out what the issues are.
I will give you an example of my PM inbox (which has at the moment around 980 messages in there - I cleaned it last week without reading any of them) - I have hundres of posts entitled "cingular version" "tmobile version" "3g not working" "where is vjtools" "will this work on a wizard"...
Hence i gave up.
Like i said, donations are appreciated and my appreciation is shown in further releases and my free time that i sacrifice to help this community with my ROMS to help your hermes be what it is supposed to be (my mrs is making me sleep on the sofa )
Now, on the issue of bloated threads, Black 3.5 will most likely no be released here but on a forum that I moderate and membership is tight hence I and others can control noob posts with attitude. In addition, to download the ROM, you must become a member. Hopefully I will have more control over the situation. This forum I speak of has 3 strict rules and one of them is:
1. If you post stupid noob questions or responses - you will be banned immediately without warning.
As per my professional job, you sometimes have to hit people really hard so they learn their lesson, warnings just aint enough. So sit tight, Black 3.5 is currently being developed with new drivers and some other tweaks, but will most likely not be hosted here, hence xda-developers.com has the right to delete any threads started by members here as they will not be hosting my new BLACK ROM.
Cheers,
JJ
mbn said:
I know the mods don't want to spend their days doing so, but deleting useless comments (I've had a few, myself), wrong thread questions, and literally the same questions asked over and over, and these threads wouldn't be nearly as long. I'm not suggesting mods spend their days doing so, but as they read the threads for their own use and they see someone with 1 post asking where the Cingy version of 3.01 is, I think it should be removed. Just the egregiously stupid questions. How about anything related to BT problems in the pimping thread past the first 3x it was asked.
Also, I read complaints by the senior members that there are too many useless posts, but there are numerous 'senior members' that immediately post:
"Thanks, JJ. Downloading now.", and JJ, wowwwww, you are a god. Will report back with issues", for the first several pages of EVERY new ROM thread that is supposed to be limited to tech issues. For someone who likes to lurk and learn more than they post, this can be infuriating, especially when further back in the thread, those same people start tossing fireballs at the silly posters.
By now, the cooks know very well that what they do is invaluable, and sending them $$ for their effort is a good way to acknowledge it. Maybe if the cooks would acknowledge receipt of donations with a PM (JJ, you listening? I know my donation for Black 2.5 a few weeks ago was only enough to buy a few drinks, but a ty PM would have been nice), people wouldn't feel the need to throw themselves at the feet of these cooks with every new release, update, or utterance.
I think 2.5 spoiled people because it had every flavor for everyone, and people could install it without even reading the wiki. While Mr. Vanx upgrade guides are so useful, they are a shortcut for putting in the time to learn. I think that's why we are seeing so many people upgrading to the latest and greatest (3.0.0, 3.0.1) who have absolutely no business doing so, and then complaining that things don't work flawlessly on beta versions we download from this board.
For the noobs reading this, I for one do not download a new ROM until it has been vetted for a few weeks by the hardcore flashers, AND I stay current with the new rom thread to make sure issues people are having will not be deal breakers for me if they occur. If you are new to this board, and not a developer, read, listen, and LEARN.
Sorry for the long message, but it's getting harder to read all the threads on here. I'm trying, but if I fall behind for a day, it can be brutal to 'catch up'.
ALSO: I just was on HOFO - I go there from time to time and I just noticed many 'senior' posters there are pointing noobs to XDA. If you do this, you are pointing people without a clue to this board, many of whom will start posting silly beginner questions.
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Question...
What is a noob???
jj my only hope is that you will find it in your heart to let me be a part of black 3.5 if u have time and look at my posts ull see they are usefull and not noobish. i read your threads from top to bottom and know how to search. pm me if u let me. back on topic. thank you for all your roms and i look forward to the next. i been with black since 2.0 and am proud. i read and make the rom perfect. loving 3.0.1 love your roms so much that im staying at 3.0.1 and have my bluetooth off and headset sitting on the desk bc of the bluetooth problems and aint complainging bc ur current is just as fast and stable as you said.
jasjamming said:
On the note of donations, my PM inbox is more cluttered than the threads, therefore I have given up most of the time to read my inbox. But rest assured that your donations are appreciated as I keep developing the ROMS for you guys. If i didnt appreciate your donations I would have stopped releasing ROMS at Blac 2.0.
Therefore dont take offense if i dont PM you back as my time is pretty much being consumed by reading 1000+ posts in a thread trying to sort out what the issues are.
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JJ - Thanks for the response. I like your idea of a limited release and restricted access. Given the increasing hysteria each of your releases has generated, and the growing number of people that have no clue that are flashing, I think that's the right idea.
I just sent you a PM. Please read it .
My 2c..
Personally I think it helps to have "it works great" and "has problem with xyz" in the same discussion as you can get a feel for how many people find a tool/app/rom release stable/problematic.
"Thanks, will download now" seems more appropriate as a PM between people who at least vaguely know each other, or have exchanged posts regularly.
In regard to your new forum, JJ you may like to do a breakdown of individual modules. IE: a thread with your new build then sub folders under that with BT, wireless, phone, etc.
I've been using Groove (www.groove.com) before it was purchased by MS for our techs on the road with new software releases and the way one can setup workspaces has really saved time. We create a software workspace, then sub folders under that workspace for every module and the filtering system works well IF and only IF people put something relevant in the title.
The techs on the Groove space are severerly reprimanded if they reply to posts with useless or trivial info. My research (physically counting in most cases) has shown that more threads are bloated by people throwing retorts back at less than satisfactory posters, hence they are treated more harshly.
There has not been one of our tech or development team who has not at some stage posted a complete dickheaded post.
We have found that if the OP doesn't get a reply to their less than adequate post they tend to realize why after a short time and start to read our wiki a little more thoroughly.
I've read all of that 96 odd pages of the build 3.xx Black to see if it would fit with my way of doing things on the Hermes. It looks like I won't be seeing another cut of it, though.
JJ, you have a hell of a lot more patience than me, mate. I would have simply pulled the ROM quicker than a bargirl can grab you a beer in Phuket.
Sure everyone like to receive kudos, but reading that arselicking first couple of pages of the Black 3.xx thread was like listening to my 13 year old neice talking with her friends...
How about some of you "senior" members start pulling your heads in and acting like senior members. Just ignore the stupid bloody posts. You don't have to a freaking rocket scientist to realize that every post you reply to is bloating the thread more.
Now I feel like a ****ing goose cos I've just bloated this one.
cheers,
Keeping it simple.
JJ and all the other cooks out there,
1st off, thank you for all your hard work. So far I have enjoyed playing with 5 different ROMs due to your generosity. Black 3.0 rocks and I like that I can add the apps that I want without all the extras.
As a noob myself, I always thought that there were no stupid questions... until I started reading the forums. I am amazed at how bloated the forums are with "Downloading now..." and "You rock". I wonder if there are any moderators even reading anymore. Can a moderator zap a poster with an automatic 1 week no posting “time-out”? If so, I might volunteer to mod ;->
So here is my $0.03 (inflation is hell) worth of suggestion on top of the ones being tossed in the mix. In your initial posting to announce your next great act of kindness and generosity, just include a link to the technical issues forum post for Black 3.5... You don’t really have to hide it… Just don’t make it too obvious.
All the goobers will spin their wheels going "Wow..." and "Thanks, downloading now..." in the first forum which will attract the dumb noobs who ask or demand for the easy answers. Those that read will know where to go for real issues and input. Kind of like a “too friken lazy to read when I can just type” filter.
Just a thought and since this forum is for “Suggestion for the next Black Rom Thread” I figure it’s safe to post this one…
Thanks again for all your work, I am amazed at what you accomplish.
gfunkmelody said:
What is a noob???
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A new WM6 ROM thats better than Bill Gates' own. Cooked just for you.
gfunkmelody said:
What is a noob???
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Anyone else see any irony here? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
JJ, props on the tightly restricted forum idea - just please leave it open for people to read. Some people actually do read.
I fully understand why JJ is doing what he is with the next release i just think it a shame that the community has to fragment to survive . It will make the dissemination of knowledge that more difficult and on a personal level make life a tad more complicated having to check multiple sites rather that just multiple forums in one site.
But keep up the good work all i for one am so happy your all here my friend bought an HP 6815 and hes stuck on wm5.
Laters
Matt
Let people use your hard work
Hi JJ,
I'm using black from first version on tytn, i tried a lot of others rom before, but only black can give me more satisfaction and i feel more stable.I'm not using post any question, just because everything working well, or because i already find the answer on the forum.Anyway you must know that a lot of people maybe use your roms but as no time to test a lot so as no reason to give you a lot of feedback.i just think that people demonstrate your hard work is very appreciated.
Anyway, maybe you cook these roms for yourself but i think any person who use it give you more satisfaction. Of course a work regarding so many persons will produde massive reactions and a lot of posts, but without some of them your roms not so good.
So let people at least download.
Your work help the community.
Any work as a boring part, in your case a lot of posts.
It sucks that we have to go to 3 or 4 differnet sites now to get the most out of our Hermes! Black is now on win4 and others are taking thier ROM's other places. We are ruining what used to be great about having a forum, and that was having a choice.
Remember when you waited for Kypher's WXL2.0? were you like me and checked every day til it came out?
And then LSVW came out. Then Black! and wow Black1.2, and Black2.0!
Are we going to let Noobs take that feeling from us?! Screw the noobs...let them read and learn like the rest of us. I read through 1000 post threads and so should they! Its time for some tough love, discipline and ignoring them will help them grow.
JJ come back! Kypher; where are you? Make this the one stop cooking shop!
All you have to do to keep everything at THIS forum is not go to the new ones. Don't give their new roms any word of mouth etc. If they see no one gives a darn about their "new home" they will come back. It's that simple...
Shadowmite said:
All you have to do to keep everything at THIS forum is not go to the new ones. Don't give their new roms any word of mouth etc. If they see no one gives a darn about their "new home" they will come back. It's that simple...
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With all due respect, based on discussions with some of the departed (voluntary and involuntary - LOL), it is not really about people giving a darn. It is more about the user experience on the board. While I appreciate what you are saying, I think that your statement VASTLY oversimplifies the reasons they left. While some may have been motivated by money, status, ego-stroking or whatever, for others it was simply about a more expertly focused site. I am sure that all communities would value your memebership.
well for some of us this is what we do because we love it and dont mind keeping up with the 1000 posts like you said. i know i like to fill my head with as much knowledge as i can so i'll keep on reading and learning
Shadowmite said:
All you have to do to keep everything at THIS forum is not go to the new ones. Don't give their new roms any word of mouth etc. If they see no one gives a darn about their "new home" they will come back. It's that simple...
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Could not agree more!!! This is why a parted with Black 3.01 and future Black roms unless the topic and rom is posted here on XDA.... Same goes for all future cookers. I wont sign up like i did for that buggy iPhone dialer on some Chinese website i could not even understand the text or the few english words and a day later my in box was full of junkmail, i believe now he is cooking a white rom and it will be posted on another forum... My point is the same, these guys are getting over them selfs and are forgetting their roots on XDA.
Sorry to dissagree some of yours opininions. I read the wiki, search the entire forum but nothing comming up
1/ Everyone here used to be a noob once.
2/ The open forum is always better than restricted forum, because the more ideals the better modifiers. Sometimes, it's quite annoyed; but, hey, life is not perfect. Also, there are too many people flame noobs by using abusive vocabularies. Why don't ppl just point out the directions, or simple keep their silent and let the moderators do their jobs?
3/ Those ppl whose posts just to say "tks, I'm downloading now", "wow, that's great" ... into thread of new ROM should be banned for at least 3 days. I saw many senior members do this also!!! Ppl can always show their appreciate to chefs by cliking on the Donation Button.
Hence, my solutions is:
a/ Moderators should do some more. If this forum is lack of janitors, I'm volunteer to be one.
b/ Ppl please limit your abusive languages and try to play nice to each others.
Regards.
I was going to post a similiar topic. It is sad that the XDA we loved is not going to be here anymore..at least not with the same variety we had before. I do not have the time to read 4 message boards just to find the best ROM.
I hope LVSW and CUSTEL and XDALive (if it ever comes back to life) remain here on XDA since they are the best ROMs anyway. We need the Pofs' Olipro's, Tadzio etc......hope we dont loose anyone else.
Nghiem said:
Sorry to dissagree some of yours opininions. I read the wiki, search the entire forum but nothing comming up
1/ Everyone here used to be a noob once.
2/ The open forum is always better than restricted forum, because the more ideals the better modifiers. Sometimes, it's quite annoyed; but, hey, life is not perfect. Also, there are too many people flame noobs by using abusive vocabularies. Why don't ppl just point out the directions, or simple keep their silent and let the moderators do their jobs?
3/ Those ppl whose posts just to say "tks, I'm downloading now", "wow, that's great" ... into thread of new ROM should be banned for at least 3 days. I saw many senior members do this also!!! Ppl can always show their appreciate to chefs by cliking on the Donation Button.
Hence, my solutions is:
a/ Moderators should do some more. If this forum is lack of janitors, I'm volunteer to be one.
b/ Ppl please limit your abusive languages and try to play nice to each others.
Regards.
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1. Noobs still need to read and search. We often see noob threads that end when a link to a previous thread points in the right direction. Do you really think we just had that link saved in a Favorite...NO...someone searched for it.
2. I agree the open forums are great. But if you dont like foul langauge too bad! I dont use it often or ever that I can recall, but Grow up, it is not like you never heard a bad word before...did feelings get hurt...too bad man up.
3. I agree 100%
Well it is sad what things have come down to, but we still have some awesome chefs here and experts that blow my mind away. Lets not lose love for them. I too am frustrated and irritated with all these noob posts that flood entire forum. And the hermes forum has a horrible rep now. I for one wanna be a help to this forum. Im on this forum for about 7 hours a day. And i would love to volunteer to take care of this forum. Just anything to do my part in helping all the mods here.
I am frustrated with the word "noob"... its as bad as "sku" was during the release of all of the gaming consoles. I've been lurking here for a while. I've used the search function and i think it completely sucks. I did a search for "video dialer" earlier and the first result was the black 3.0.1 thread... all 103 or so pages of it. That was typical for the next 20 results. You can't hate on every person that creates a seemingly useless thread. If you want to help reduce the thread counts, then improve the search results. There's no reason not to help a new person... if this was the same logic that went with creating ROMS, think how crappy they would be. If a chef yelled "GOOGLE!" everytime they were looking for a quicker/better/faster way of doing something with their soon-to-be-released ROM, we'd never get any new ROMS. I guess my point is this, i know it sucks to have 40 new threads each day when i visit this site. But, i dont go jumping on the people that posted them, rather i think the responsiblity lies more on the shoulders of the moderators (no offense guys/girls, but I've done a lot of posting to various forums, even moderated one or two in my day, and that's just where i stand)... If you want to help eliminate useless posts, clean up the wiki and implement a better search feature. (and yes, using google to search within this domain helps... but not all new people know that).
sorry for the rant.
Like some of the other posters here, I would gladly offer moderation services to this forum. I agree that good moderation is the key to keeping XDA-DEVELOPERS vital and flourishing. Would be happy to help encourage the good and thwart the bad.
The F Word
forum (n.) a public meeting or assembly for open discussion
forum (n.) a public facility to meet for open discussion
forum (n.) a place of assembly for the people in ancient Greece
Bottom line, get over it!!
Noob, Expert, Chef, Senior, whatever.... It's a place for everyone to discuss everything and anything about a related topic. That's how we get along in this crazy world by helping others, sharing knowledge, and communicating...
If you want an experts only club then go create one and make it a specialised chat room with a private login.
*rant over*
allready got 3 actually
Midget_1990 said:
allready got 3 actually
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Lol... Shows how much the mods care about this topic.
almost kinda like the topic says, black & white..
The whole issue here is a little more complex and not really a black and white issue.. This isnt the first time chefs have the left the boards for other things, and we always pick up new chefs.. and alot of the old school chefs are still here and plan to stay, the same chefs that helped create the roms you guys so highly speak of. One of them will be releasing his own rom soon. And there might be a chef leaving this board to avoid being banned due to abusive behavior..
shogunmark said:
The whole issue here is a little more complex and not really a black and white issue.. This isnt the first time chefs have the left the boards for other things, and we always pick up new chefs.. and alot of the old school chefs are still here and plan to stay, the same chefs that helped create the roms you guys so highly speak of. One of them will be releasing his own rom soon. And there might be a chef leaving this board to avoid being banned due to abusive behavior..
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Off topic, but I gotta say it ... I get a chuckle every time I see that damn monkey with a gun.
weinson said:
Off topic, but I gotta say it ... I get a chuckle every time I see that damn monkey with a gun.
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maybe if i ever cook a rom again it will make a nice splash screen, lol
shogunmark said:
maybe if i ever cook a rom again it will make a nice splash screen, lol
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In these trying times he'd make a rather suitable XDA mascot.
shogunmark said:
The whole issue here is a little more complex and not really a black and white issue.. This isnt the first time chefs have the left the boards for other things, and we always pick up new chefs.. and alot of the old school chefs are still here and plan to stay, the same chefs that helped create the roms you guys so highly speak of. One of them will be releasing his own rom soon. And there might be a chef leaving this board to avoid being banned due to abusive behavior..
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Surely you must agree that dropping developers and gaining new ones is a little erratic? It just ads to the confusion where people install a ROM from this forum, then have to go else where for maintenance. I think a lot of these problems could have been solved if the developers were given their own sub-forum (based on popularity) and they were made moderators of their forum. That's it. They would then be responsible for the maintenance and the progressive state of their section. Right now the closest thing we have is a thread, which ends up in a few hundred replies, majority of which is total crap.
MrSmith22 said:
Surely you must agree that dropping developers and gaining new ones is a little erratic? It just ads to the confusion where people install a ROM from this forum, then have to go else where for maintenance. I think a lot of these problems could have been solved if the developers were given their own sub-forum (based on popularity) and they were made moderators of their forum. That's it. They would then be responsible for the maintenance and the progressive state of their section. Right now the closest thing we have is a thread, which ends up in a few hundred replies, majority of which is total crap.
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MrSmith - I think that is an excellent suggestion/observation - fwiw
Ok, there is something that I want to say.
I know I'm not making myself popular with this post, but I wasn't very happy lately with the comments or the reaction from some fellow Xda-Dev members lately...
This should be a community, where we learn and help each other.
Where we can share knowledge and cool roms (like Toms...) or apps (like Tene's...) etc...
But lately I feel like there are less real Xda-Dev members which appreciate the work and effort, those wizards out there make for us.
Only peoply always complaining about "the need of BETTER beta-testers", is it because these people couldn't test it before a release and are jalous??? Or people complaining about some bugs, and keep asking 100000... times about why there is this bug, how to fix it, or why don't you fix it?? etc... well, let me tell you a BUGFREE rom most likely wouldn't excist... and if you can do it better, why don't you put your TIME and EFFORT in it and make a fix for it... or better make a Rom and share it with us... let's see if you can make a bugfree cool rom??!!
Or people asking 100000... times when will there be a German version of this rom or a Dutch rom or etc... Or why put these apps in a specific rom? etc...
I'm just wondering, do all these people always send 100000... mails to HTC or Microsoft to ask them, why a specific app is in a rom? Why there are these bugs, why this, why that???
I'm just saying why don't we all just show some respect and appreciation to those wizards. To those whom sacrafise a lot of time and work into a project and share it to us for free. Off course I understand, the feedback we all give to these wizards will maybe help them to create a better version or help them make a fix for a bug. But there is some difference between giving feedback and just being a child and complaining ...
I opened this thread, because I feel sorry for Tom (and other wizards)... if you see the post on threads from his roms... more than half is just crap... is just people asking the same thing over and over again... I'm not sure about Tom, but I know I would get it on my nerves when I made something for a community and this would be the reaction... I would ask myself, if it's still worth it to invest so much time into something for all those people...
I used to looking forward to be able to logon on XDA Dev... but lately, I notice that even I got the time for it, I just don't feel like to logon... cause most likely I will missed a page or 2 or 3... but I'm sure I wouldn't miss any potential information...
This post is dedicated to all those Wizards out there... and I'm sorry... I'm sorry there are a lot off people just don't know how to show some respect to you... I hope I still can learn from you, and to use the cool apps and roms from you...
But I must admit, even I'm doubting, will I still comming back to this forum... or should I just leave it???
Just my 2 cents...
100 % agree with you....
Cheers!
you are talking right out of my heart.
i personally tend to ignore all those "but it has a bug!!11!!1" or "i donated few euros now i WANT that feature and i want it NOW" folks. but you are right: it starts to kill the core of the community.
lets all be unpopular together......
...I agree with everything you say cg...pointing out a problem and making the dev aware is one thing - complaining is another completely.
The amount of posts on this website pushing Tom Codon to release his 4.1 rom was stupid...when its ready its ready. If you don't want to wait - install a factory rom and stop whining.
I also have no problem (we've all done it) in asking a question because you can't find an answer...the main point being "if you can't find an answer" - a lot of people tend not to search and fill the forums with duplicate posts.
So...in conclusion....i may not be a regular poster, but I really enjoy reading almost every post on this site - but when you we are in a position when a poster such as coolgadget is thinking of leaving - we need to pay attention...
imagine what would happen in Tom decided to leave - or any of the other cookers - maybe thats what some of the people on here need before they realise what these guys do.
Rant over
I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.
I am on your side - only someone with your reputation is able to say that!!
Thank you my friend.
We all have to organize and discipline us in order to get a forum with easy readable informations which helps the community.
Not only consuming and defining requirements is here the right way!!!
Nobody does this in relation to HTC or Microsoft - and Tom and all the other devs work very hard (somtetimes day and night) - they should have the change to concentrate on cooking good roms - not discussing the same problems again and again.
Bottlm Line!
That my Friend is the bottom Line.
I always come on here with intentions of helping out anyone I can. I have been testing with Cool Gadget for a while; he and I have the same feelings here. I am literally drained when it comes to trying to read through the release posts.
I lose my confidence in this community when I read some of the statements, complaints and out right rude comments left by some users.
I appreciate every ones interest, and inpatients for the next release, I don’t condone it at all, but I do get it. You can be anyone you want to be on the internet, some choose to be who they really are, while some cant help but to be that person...
In short, Cool has this right on, I would repost it and change the name just to be the first to say it.
Please people, show a little respect and integrity, it really goes a long way
Thanks Coolgadget for posting this.
Even the original rom of HTC has bug's
Can we make this post sticky?
Ps. it's my 100 post
RE: Coolgadget
True, but might some people say this and that cus they would like to help work of the creator, and not cus they want to blame his work. Have you ever thought about that? And maybe these forums are for not only but for this reason as well, to let the developers help each other, let the users help each other, let the developers help the users and MAYBE vica verse.
Maybe I am wrong.
Regards,
Miklos
biou said:
I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.
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i also agree, it's not really fine to search in a thread with about 100pages and the most asked question is really "when do you make german rom", "and found this bug", etc it's really true. It's not comfortable to find real interestening threads. And such statements are totally useless for everybody. I like your point of view!
moderators can edit complains & ****ty comment away.
i was a moderator for a long time on a board, we made some rules.
There rules where simple, follow them or get a warning, still not listening, they got banned.
the normal respected members will always follow the rules.
the ones that are *****ing, making lame & dumb comments will eventually make place for the people that DO want to contribute in a healthy way
look at some of the new members their lame posts....
they are just joining to complain, say this is bad, this isn't good... bladiebladiebla...not good for the health of a community imo
serious, they need to give all the guys that are working on things like this in their spare time some credit.
Complaining & whining..... for stuff that is free....what a bunch of assholes
Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.
itje said:
Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.
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Yes i can follow you but there is a difference between the guys trying to initiate active (proactive) communication and that one which are only consuming!
coolgadget and chandlercjh
I'm in total agreement with you both in all your comments above. If people would only show some patience here especially with Tom and the work he is doing at this great forum... its would be a very sad day if he or any of the other senior members decided to leave. I don't make many posts on here but I am a regular reader and absolutely love the site. I just hope that more people show respect and an ability to use the search function... and i dread the nonsense we will have to read when we near v4.2 of Tom's great ROM.
Agreed fully
Hello Friend;
I completely agree with you.Its not fair that people who make ROM's and other apps are always crucified or pressured.Many time the same questiona are answered previously.But no one wants to read it,it seems.But another thing to be high lighted is that many people can't speak English well.This some time lead to messages which seems arrogant.But I have to agree the message u posted(I saw it before in forum) is the result of a gigantic ego and big mouth.He doesn't even pay anything for the ROM(forgetting a few bucks of Donations) and daring to complain like this.As u say such people can make their own ROM's and make it perfect and don't stop complaining.
And please remember that there are much more people here who are your fans and looks up to you.So please don't be bothered and continue your good work.
Regards and have a nice day.
My alplogies for my following comment as I am quite new here in the forum as well.
I completely agree with these statements here. It looks very childish (to put it in polite words) what many of the members write in their posts when they cry for tthe ROM in another language (you didn't learn english in school??).
Tom is doing a great job and he is ALWAYS polite. Try to behave in the same way!!!
For the beta-tester critics, I just like to mention that the SW from very big companies is also far away from being bug-less.
To mention I sent 10 bucks please provide me with this or that is ***
Come on, go in a restaurant and buy a coffe. What do you get for this money.
My impression is, Tom is doing this because he likes to do it, to share it and to contribute to a comunity. I call this respect. So, show him your respect as well.
Donate to show your respect to him and not because you want something.
my 2 cents in R-E-S-P-E-C-T,
g-fall
Try to imagine XDA WITHOUT Tom
Hi there,
What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.
We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
In a recent post (some of you might even remember that) I have publicly suggested Tom to go to the beach instead of "wasting" his time following useless remarks of some outstandingly tactless XDA forum members.
All this TO NO AVAIL... Tom is a big-hearted and professional young man who LOVES EVERYBODY, kind and mean alike, generous and stingy alike!
Tom insisted and decided to continue HELPING EVERYONE 4 FREE... Isn't that magnificent?!?
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
In the "Donations to Tom Codon" thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1471616&posted=1#post1471616) I have just posted how important nice and encouraging words are to Tom... I would almost dare to define them just as valuable as generous financial donations.
I thank you all once more for the understanding and support shown so far (and OBVIOULSY for the one you will keep on showing ) and I wish you a great day.
SiperX
I completely agree with the comments made in this post and I apologise for not having any input myself. Tom does indeed make some great roms that make the XDA Orbit/P3300, or whatever you want to call it, a far more useable piece of technology. I am surprised that the likes of O2, T-Mobile or HTC haven't jumped at the chance to showcase how enthusiasts are developing and pushing the boundaries with their technology.
I do think that one of the problems is language and that some people, whose first language is not English, may come across as quite rude when they perhaps don't mean to. This does not excuse peoples inability to use the search function or the ones that are blatantly rude and I would suggest that the mods here clamp down and ruthlessly delete both the rude posts and those that ask the same questions time and time again. Perhaps a sticky in the most common languages on how to use the search function might go some way to highlighting the problem and how it is ruining the forum.
I am not saying that there are not faults with the roms and that Tom does not require feedback; all I am saying is that those that can not offer useful input, who are rude or constantly demand things are not actively allowed to ruin threads.
My life with the Orbit would be far less interesting without Tom's work.
Many thanks and I will donating come payday.
What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
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hi SiperX and Coolgadget I can only request you to ignore those NASTY & RUDE comments as there are always some ants in heaven.Either we can put negative points for such whiners after a level they will be banned or just ignore it.I kindly request you not to be affected by these remarks by some IDIOTS who think they can have their way.
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
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For this I consider you and others who male this forum a big contribution.But please remember there are many who admire you too.I admire Tom and his works.Not just him the forum itself and many volunteers who make apps in their free time and distribute it freely.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
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I hope that day never comes.Is there anything we can do to help you?
FYI
this matter seems resolved
I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy
tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
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Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
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Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.
I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
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You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
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Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
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Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha
sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
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Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
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No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal
tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
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Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
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What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
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Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.
Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.
poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
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Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
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kudos to you sir
I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]