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How safe is overclocking and how does it affect battery life.

Hey there people. I'll be receiving my artemis tomorrow and I would like to get the most out of it. I allready decided on what rom I am going to use. but I want to know how safe is overclocking. I want my artemis to be able to watch movies without to many trouble. I want to play some games (Age of empires, myst, some of those games) and more. I am willing to charge my artemis every night as long as I can do the entertainment as much as I want
So advice please people. To what could I safely overclock and how long will my battery last then?

Mines currently overclocked to 286MHz and has been since I had it (over 8 months usage now). The battery lasts for well over 4 days without a charge with moderate usage but obviously the more calls etc then the quicker it'll go down. Its device dependent but mine physically won't overclok any higher. If I try then it immediately freezes but 286 is spot on with no issues at all. I've known others who couldn't go quite as high but like I've said previously, it depends on your device so give it a bash.

Yeah but it won't be wise to blow my mobile up the first day

Nobody will tell you what is "safe CPU frequency" for overclocking, but I never heard about Artemis owner who damaged device by going to far. I tried about 270 MHz with my PDA for long time, with higher freq. I had to soft reset device, one even hard reset was necessary, but after that everything was working OK. Remember not to set overclocking after reset
Regarding battery drain - I didn't made tests, but with BatteryStatus and "on-demand" overclocking I noticed no big difference - when you play game CPU is oveclocked, but then it may by underclocked.

How safe is overclocking and how does it affect battery life
Hi,
a popular formula to calculate the dynamic power consuption of CMOS ICs is:
P = (1/2)*C*V^2*f (C - Capacitance, V - Supply Voltage, f - Frequency)
As you can see, the frequency is a linear factor in this equation. So if you double the clock frequency, the power dissipation will also double. But the processor does only has a portion of the total power dissipation of your device. So the battery "life time" will not be doubled.
If you choose a frequency that is to high, the device will not work correctly -> bit-errors -> Softreset. This is not serious, but my concern about extreme overclocking are the extrem temperature cycles -> produces a mechanical mismatch -> mechanical failure inside the processor package or printed circuit board. But this is a long term process.
Kind regards,
hqqh

[Q] Undervolting

Hi, I'm a noob to undervolting here (just rooted and flashed Vanilla Froyo to my Defy a week ago, and I'm hoping to squeeze out as much battery life as I can); just some quick questions about undervolting that I haven't found answers to in other threads:
1) What exactly is "vsel" and how does it relate to the actual battery voltage? For example, even though I've changed the maximum voltage in setvsel and Milestone Overclock (down to about 45 vsel at 800 Mhz so far, haven't tried lower), the battery voltage reported by Spare Parts is still reading between 3800 mV and 4000 mV. Does this mean that setvsel/milestone aren't working or does a ~30% decrease in vsel *not* equal a 30% decrease in battery voltage?
2) If anyone else has undervolted their Defy, can they testify as to what kind of battery life improvements they've gotten? I've heard that custom ROMs are already fairly undervolted

If laptops are anything to go by.. laptops can be undervolted to make them run less hot, thereby extending their life. Though battery life is increased too, this increase is virtually negligible.
Since the limits of undervolting (and over/underclocking), are done on a per-cpu/gpu basis for computers, because they are not all exactly the same and may not work with the same non-default values, I think it's a bad idea to assume that phones will run without problems when using values only tested by people with a phone that is not yours.
If you want to undervolt/over- or underclock, test your device, find out the lowest/highest values and then inrease or decrease that value, to have a safety margin, do not copy someone elses' settings.

A common issue with undervolting on 2.1 (at least with me on 2.1) is that if the minimum clock speed is below 300 mhz, it takes around 3-5 sec to actually respond to incomming call on your defy when defy is on stand-by mode.

Undervolting + Ondemand made my battery work at 23ºC vs +29ºC
I did not wrote down numbers, but battery life increased AT LEAST in 8 hours.
My values
vsel 1; 18 -300
vsel 2; 33 - 600
vsel 3; 43 - 800
(-15 points each value VS factory values)
Removing bloatware, root apps, autostart at boot apps, widgets (they autostart too) etc. or freezing them with "antitek app manager"
Decreased phone memory ussage from 140Mib to 80Mib; Also decreased cpu ussage from 10%-15% average idle to just 1%-5%
Apps / Widgets / Many System preinstalled apps, are autoloaded when phone is turned on, and they run 24/7. waste of resources and app auto killers just aren't good enough, coz apps reload themselves, you have to remove them or freeze them.
fortunely modders are realeasing their custom roms with most of this optimizations

45 vsel
using milestone oc I got 1ghz @ 45vsel from the day I got it I have owned the device for 1 1/2 months now not one single problem but it depends from device to device I must have a bin'd cpu

Governor test, cpu speed vs. load, achieving better battery?

I am running Chad's 12-23 kernel on a mostly stock ROM, and have been testing between the on demand governor and the smartass governor, trying to determine which would give better battery life. I ran a log over a 1 minute period with the phone on/awake, but idle. I did NOT kill any background processes, and ran both tests back to back so running processes shouldn't have changed.
Over a one minute period, the governors averaged the following:
On demand
264 mhz
20% load
Smartass
371 mhz
14% load.
As a side note, the smartass governor scores slightly, yet consistently higher on quadrant, seems to run a much more stable framerate on the planet-and-moon graphics test.
so which should be better for batter, and why? lower speed, or lower load?

In general, smartass should provide better battery life than ondemand since it doesn't scale upwards as violently.
Sitting idle with the screen on isn't the best condition for comparing different governors. Since the governors affect the speed and level of scaling, you would want to test under conditions that have more dynamic processing needs.
While it doesn't answer all the questions you have, you might find this helpful:
Effects of CPU Frequency and Screen Brightness on Power Consumption

The funny thing is that even the On Demand governor on this kernel seems modified. On the stock kernel, on demand usually idles much higher, 600-700 mhz. So whatever changes Chad has made overall are causing on demand to be more conservative as well.
I don't really know a method to test under more dynamic circumstances. I'm simply observing in System Panel. But the logging feature it has doesn't get super detailed with CPU speed. Only the realtime monitor. About the only "test" I could do was to scroll the app list up and down on the system panel screen. This causes the mhz and load to jump up pretty much immediately to 800+ mhz. I did not see ANY difference in this between the two governors, they both seem to ramp up equally aggressively, and both would jump to about the same mhz.

bast525 said:
I don't really know a method to test under more dynamic circumstances.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could set up scripts that run various commands/processes, with sleep times in-between.
Do you have Tasker? You could set up Tasks that not only would automate various processes, thereby exposing your CPU to dynamic (yet controlled) conditions, but Tasker now has %CPUFREQ which could record the current CPU frequency throughout the test.
There are also the Frequency Stats to the be found in SetCPU, Android System Info, or I'm sure a host of other apps. They show you how long your CPU has spent at any given frequency. The only catch is that I don't know how to reset those stats (as it's not really a function I use).
Since you are concerned with power use, you would also want part of your logging to include mA current being drawn from the battery.
Just brainstorming. There are a lot of ways you could set up more controlled tests.

OK, so digging a little bit, this should be even easier than I thought. The Frequency Stats are contained in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state
It looks like rebooting can reset them, but I haven't yet figured out a way to reset them without resetting the device. But it doesn't really matter Once you come up with a testing script, you can have it store a copy of time_in_state at the very beginning of the test, and then again at the end of the test. That way, you can simply compare the time_in_state at the end of the test to the one at the beginning to see just the influence of that test.

[Q] setvsel cpu damage

hey guys, just wondering will using a lower vsel damage my cpu and/or battery?
i have previously beein using milestone overclock on 1ghz and 60 vsel and am adding setvsel into the mix, also any ideas on starter settings? thanks
also could someone just give me a heads up on what vsel actually IS

I don't believe there are any studies that show effects of long term use of lowering the voltage, which is what you are doing with vsel in order to save battery juice...or you could increase the voltage but that defeats the purpose and also heats up the battery which leads to shorter life span. Many use it without reporting any damage to battery or cpu, I believe it's safe (however, if you are overheating you might fry the battery or cpu, so you'll need to moniter and play with settings to get the desired effect without any overheating issues).
With regards to setvsel, there are reported issues from users with different roms...from what I've read (and you can do your own research to see if this is what you are seeing...this is the conclusion that I've come to by reading a lot of threads), it is better to use milestone to overclock and setcpu to lower the vsel.
With that being said, I've used them all and like setvsel so keep going back to it...but I've been having some issues lately so I've removed setvsel to see if that is what is causing some problems (too early to tell).
Oh, and as for settings...pop on the overclocking/undervolting thread in the development section to see a lot of different settings and remember that what works for one user might not work for you...you'll have to experiment a bit to find your ideal setting.

oh okay i think i might go back to my old settings with milestone overclock and setcpu and just lower the vsel! i was under the impression for some reason that lowering the vsel would heat the battery. Thanks!

I'm no expert to be honest, I'm more of a research kinda person. From what I've researched, undervolting can help keep temps down, and may particularly help when you overclock (as overclocking is stressing the cpu to go beyond it's normal operating design hence it may heat up...supplying it with less power, or voltage, is what helps keep the temps down.
Of course, this is given you find the optimal setting for your phone, and as it seems from reading through these forums, many users have experienced completely different results using the same settings (i.e., one user will have a stable setting without any problems while another user on the same rom using the same settings will have crashes and/or issues like overheating). Doesn't seem right, but it is what it is

yeah ive read through most of that stuff too, i went down to 1ghz at 51 vsel, seeming stable, but i decided to go with 54 anyway

1.1 GHz @ Stock vsel for over a month without any issues...I hope it lasts.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App

Hi,
I've also read a lot regarding the underclocking 'dangers' but couldn't find anything to prove that there is such an issue. I think that it is an urban myth spread everywhere by people asking if there is a danger with low vsel [but that are never getting a positive answer on it].
The only thing I found using setvSel is that I had to first install Milestone Overclock and load its module prior to start setvsel. There is a way around it, but requires you to copy files in the system folders and change their permissions. I find that my way is much easier.
As far as over-heating goes, it's an overclocking thing; not underclocking.
My Defy is set at 900Mhz and really, I don't see the point of going much higher: everything runs smooth and lag free already.
vsel: 21/300; 32/600; 43/900 - 90% up_threshold
Been like that for about a month now and never experienced any problem at all.
The underclocking is great for saving battery; no exact numbers to give here but it feels like my battery now last 2 times longer. I can easily get 4 days between charges with low/moderate usage and would get to 6+ days "IF" I could stay away from games and having the screen ON for long sessions of browsing/video watching.
I tried SetCpu before but I didn't like the interface; the simplicity of SetvSel is really nice.

i use setcpu for scaling and profiles, and run 18/300, 36/600, 50/1000 stable and smooth as

Undervolting is not a bad thing at all. It means less Watts consumed for running (Watts = Voltage x Amperage), less of your battery consumed.
Ussually companies test a large batch of components and how they react on different voltages and freqvencies, and then they decide for a voltage that works with all components and that is safe for all cases. Eg. when they have different CPU speeds and thus different options for CPU's this is one way to decide which one work at 3GHz and which one at 2.7 GHz (the other one is demand for components).
Phisically you will not have any problems and you can't damage your phone by undervolting, so no problem here, only possible software problems if you go too low.
Advantages :
+ Lower processor temperature
+ Lower phone temperature
+ Longer battery time
+ Longer components life
Disadvantages
- Stability issues (freeze, artefacts, slowness)

maxi2mc said:
Disadvantages
- Stability issues (freeze, artefacts, slowness)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, I was recording a video and when playing back noticed that there were squiggly lines that went through the video a couple of times (in a two minute clip). This was the first time I saw this...and have recently lowered vsel by 2 on vsel3...could that be the artifacts that you are mentioning?
I just figured it perhaps I was too bouncy with the phone while recording making it glitch...but now that I see this post I'm thinking maybe I undervolted too much...what do you think?
My settings: 54/1000 44/700 28/300

I know what people mean by same settings don't work for every phone even if it's the exact same model. My Defy won't underclock as much as others. I'm using SetVesel, and I've been able to drop 5 points from each, and that's about it before it reboots itself. I only tested undervolting, but I mainly overclock to get as much speed as I can, and give it enough juice to run super fast. I'm current running [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Threshold at 75%. The highest the temp ever got was 112F, and that was after playing a game for about an hour. Usually it stays below 90F for normal use. I get around 17-20 hours out of it with screen on time at about 3 hours @ 50% brightness. I've been running these settings about a month, and have not had any issues.

If you put something like 100vsel will the phone accept and then burn? Is there any protection? Does anyone know what's the highest acceptable vsel?
Just for curiosity...

im pretty sure 80 is the highest you should EVER use and that'll significantly increase the chances of your phone burning out. @bobbyphoenix you should be able to lower your vsels a fair bit or your really unlucky! i run a lower vsel for 1ghz than u do for 700mhz smooth and stable

stewi21 said:
im pretty sure 80 is the highest you should EVER use and that'll significantly increase the chances of your phone burning out. @bobbyphoenix you should be able to lower your vsels a fair bit or your really unlucky! i run a lower vsel for 1ghz than u do for 700mhz smooth and stable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM7, rather non-technical person here. I seem to have a very happy phone at setvsel settings of [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], 86%. Been running this for the month or so since I rooted and the phone feels like it was made for this config. I've never seen the temp above ~32c. My 2¢.

[Q] Is it really safe to keep overclocking to 1GHz?

I am new to android phones. And i have no experience about overclock.
Will my cpu easily break down due to keep overclocking?..
Honestly, i seldom change my cell phone model, i want my defy can stay a life at least 1.5yr.

i think overclocking can't really damage your phone, voltage can. so i suggest you keep the voltage around [email protected] (default is [email protected], so this should be fine), and if the phone doesn't hang or reboot, you're good to go but you could try lowering vsels, you know, the lower the voltage, the lower the power consumption, the heat and the chance to fry your cpu but i'm not sure!

Yep, 1 GHz is safe, I'm using [email protected] as well, and the CPU is capable to run easily at [email protected] continuously. The leaked Gingerbread ROM from Motorola uses 1GHz as well, so don't worry, you just have to find the safe vsel settings.

thanks for replying, i m currently using 1GHz @ 58 .. Everything is alright
Should I make the voltage as low as possible?

yeah, just to lower the power consumption and temperature, but it isn't necessary.

Can you share your voltage setting please..?
I do the stability test and it gets successful run for 5min then this means the setting is okay?

i don't overclock, just undervolt, here are my settings (with setvsel):
800MHz - 45vsel
600MHz - 30vsel
300MHz - 18vsel
up_threshold: 90%
actually if you wanna make absolutely sure your device is stable, you should run it like for an hour. but if it runs for 5 minutes without error that's quite okay, you shouldn't have problems with those settings

Thanks so much, i m trying to lower my voltage setting.
Besides, i want to ask about the battery temperature, what is the maximum temperature before getting damage to the cell? I usually goes up to 37~39 degree celsius.. is it normal?

mine is usually around 29-32 °C, but i have it undervolted, so idk. but 37-39 seems a bit high, that means the cpu temp is way over 40 degrees, you should check it out!
EDIT: tried stress testing for 20 minutes with [email protected], it went up to 35°C, so you should definitely find out what's wrong with your device!

I actually underclocked to 600MHz, since I couldn't see a big difference even at 1200MHz in normal usage. A Pentium3 at 4Ghz will still not perform as well as a slower clocked new CPU for example, CPU design is more important - what instructions it supports.
Battery life is more imprtant to me and heat is very bad for Li-ion batteries too.
Also I found changing the CPU governor to "interactive" made a difference in GUI responsiveness and I have had less stuttering.

nisamtetreb said:
I actually underclocked to 600MHz, since I couldn't see a big difference even at 1200MHz in normal usage. A Pentium3 at 4Ghz will still not perform as well as a slower clocked new CPU for example, CPU design is more important - what instructions it supports.
Battery life is more imprtant to me and heat is very bad for Li-ion batteries too.
Also I found changing the CPU governor to "interactive" made a difference in GUI responsiveness and I have had less stuttering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so, what's your standby lifetime after underclocked cpu?

I can see the performance improved when i was watching flash video on browser. But honestly, i dont think there are anymore huge difference after overclocking..
But as the battery life still remains quite well, i will still keep overclocking to 1GHz.. Isn't it a good idea?

nisamtetreb said:
I actually underclocked to 600MHz, since I couldn't see a big difference even at 1200MHz in normal usage. A Pentium3 at 4Ghz will still not perform as well as a slower clocked new CPU for example, CPU design is more important - what instructions it supports.
Battery life is more imprtant to me and heat is very bad for Li-ion batteries too.
Also I found changing the CPU governor to "interactive" made a difference in GUI responsiveness and I have had less stuttering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol... What happend to HD and THD games... Did u try playing them at 600mhz??

Overclocking to 1 GHz with the right voltage values seems to be absolutely no problem for Defy.
BTW, does anyone know whether it's possible to set scaling governor to "Interactive" mode under Froyo? Gingerbread kernel let me set it, but I haven't found the way under Froyo.

Battery life was a little bit better, the display and 3G always draw a lot of power.
Standby time got better, but I don't use very low vsel any more due to errors in YouTube and dropped connection of radio streams.
Before I used 300-600-800 at 20-30-48, this was very stable in stability test, but for example Youtube would start showing "error playing video". After I increased vsel, it went away.
I mostly did it to lower temperature, optimal temperature for li-ion is around 25°C according to Wikipedia I think.
I don't play 3d games, they would benefit the most from overclock I believe.
Angry birds RIO for example would stutter for a second or two after a level loaded, but it would become as smooth as at higher clocks, when I wait for a second.
I hope flash gets better, when hardware acceleration gets enabled in Quarx's CM7.

I was running [email protected] for a month straight. No issues at all. The highest my temp reached was 112F after playing games for about an hour straight. I now just run it at [email protected], and it's plenty fast for me. I did some "testing" with all the options in SetVsel. It's not science sound, but if you use the Gingerbread Icon in the notification bar, and are running at stock (800 speed) you will notice when the CPU maxes out it doesn't even reach full capacity. I found Words with Friends to really use the CPU, and at 800 it pings the meter in the orange (The notification icon shows green, orange, and red for "zones"). If I overclock it at 1000 or above then the meter goes into the red. I don't know the exact number it switches from orange to red, but being at stock 800 is well below what the chip can really do since it doesn't even max out the meter. I hope I didn't confuse anyone. It makes sense to me.

weird...my cpu at any game reach the 800mhz
yet even in normal situations like browsing through the files on the phone it reaches 800mhz
and also despite the values i use in setvsel are not high(which is:
24 @ 300
34 @ 600
48 @ 800
)
the phone still reaches maximum 38C when i play games and if i set the value in the third vsel the games starts to hang!!
seems like i am the only one who have these problems..but why
anyone have any idea
im running stock arabic froyo btw
if someone can confirm to me that i can keep Arabic language if i installed another rom using custom restore in nandroid then i would be using prays or official 2.3 but no one answered me about that
anyway the important thing is anyone knows why my cpu temp is always high?

Well ambient temperature is important too. If it is 30°C where you live and your phone's temperature is at 35°C I'd say you are good. If the outside temperature is 10°C and your phone is dat 40°C I'd say there is something wrong (unless you were playing games or watching a movie).

in my opinion, it is definitely safe that you overclocking to the leaked moto level.
however, the voltage is still a mystery.
there's no constant conclusion about this.
i'm using [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], and it works fine for me

I'm getting really annoyed. No problems clocking up to 1100mhz with stock voltage (58). But changing the voltage settings, even slightly, makes the phone more or less unstable.