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what is maximum safe freq. for overcloking artemis ?
in some rom i see 247MHz in default,but Battrey Status can overclock it up to 312MHz!!!
mine is a standard T-Mobile MDA Compact III, and it runs at 201MHz (standard) The 'safe' clocking speed is usually up to 247MHz.
ive got mine scaled (so + and - scaling) and up to 247 with a boost to 273! No problemo's here. 286 goes with no problems too, but uses lots of battery power! I would not recomend to go any higher. The maximum can be different in different makes of the artemis. Ive heard ppl having problems with 286 already.
If you try out to go any higher, be sure to unselect the setting 'scale on reboot'! Then you can give it a SR and try a lower setting again!
I would say 247 as mine crashes above 260 and on 260 the text goes all fuzzy and moves around, like it's tripping.
thanks for your answers
is there any damage to CPU if I overclock it to 312MHz or just it don't work ?
also is there any way to reduce speed for longer battry life
Mine goes to 299MHz without problems, I have it set at a max of 286MHz for a while now without issues. But please see below.
The max frequency beyond which artifacts/faults show up could be different for each individual device - it depends on the production lot of the chip. The max possible frequency also depends on the ambient temperature a lot and generally worsens with ambient temperature - you could go overclocking to 299MHz when you are outdoors in the cold but it may conk out in warmer environments or when summer arrives! That is why I have mine set a notch below the max it can handle. You need to find out the max frequency of your particular device yourself by stepping it up one notch at a time and testing it with various apps for a few minutes continuously. Other's experiences are not useful in this regard. Some people wait a day or two but this is unnecessary as long as you test all scenarios - the thermal time-constant would be of the order of a few seconds.
The above applies to immediate faults which you can observe - there may be some long term repercussions when you overclock it for a period of months or years - the lifetime of the chip may go down slightly due to the higher internal temperature arising from overclocking - but I estimate this may be negligible.
I don't think anybody can brick a device permanently by just overclocking - when the overclocking is removed, it should boot normally. If anybody has experience in *permanently* bricking a device by overclocking, please share it here. BatteryStatus has couple of methods by which it can recover from this condition by removing the overclocking. BatteryStatus also has a neat CPUscaling feature which also saves power when the device is not being used.
-Ravi
I temporary overclock to 273 mhz by Battery Status when playing heavy videos or when I call by Skype, but for normal use my Artemis run very well with standard 201 mhz.
mine 286Mhz without any problem... But my device can't boot up with 299Mhz... keep on restarting...
hey guys, just wondering will using a lower vsel damage my cpu and/or battery?
i have previously beein using milestone overclock on 1ghz and 60 vsel and am adding setvsel into the mix, also any ideas on starter settings? thanks
also could someone just give me a heads up on what vsel actually IS
I don't believe there are any studies that show effects of long term use of lowering the voltage, which is what you are doing with vsel in order to save battery juice...or you could increase the voltage but that defeats the purpose and also heats up the battery which leads to shorter life span. Many use it without reporting any damage to battery or cpu, I believe it's safe (however, if you are overheating you might fry the battery or cpu, so you'll need to moniter and play with settings to get the desired effect without any overheating issues).
With regards to setvsel, there are reported issues from users with different roms...from what I've read (and you can do your own research to see if this is what you are seeing...this is the conclusion that I've come to by reading a lot of threads), it is better to use milestone to overclock and setcpu to lower the vsel.
With that being said, I've used them all and like setvsel so keep going back to it...but I've been having some issues lately so I've removed setvsel to see if that is what is causing some problems (too early to tell).
Oh, and as for settings...pop on the overclocking/undervolting thread in the development section to see a lot of different settings and remember that what works for one user might not work for you...you'll have to experiment a bit to find your ideal setting.
oh okay i think i might go back to my old settings with milestone overclock and setcpu and just lower the vsel! i was under the impression for some reason that lowering the vsel would heat the battery. Thanks!
I'm no expert to be honest, I'm more of a research kinda person. From what I've researched, undervolting can help keep temps down, and may particularly help when you overclock (as overclocking is stressing the cpu to go beyond it's normal operating design hence it may heat up...supplying it with less power, or voltage, is what helps keep the temps down.
Of course, this is given you find the optimal setting for your phone, and as it seems from reading through these forums, many users have experienced completely different results using the same settings (i.e., one user will have a stable setting without any problems while another user on the same rom using the same settings will have crashes and/or issues like overheating). Doesn't seem right, but it is what it is
yeah ive read through most of that stuff too, i went down to 1ghz at 51 vsel, seeming stable, but i decided to go with 54 anyway
1.1 GHz @ Stock vsel for over a month without any issues...I hope it lasts.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Hi,
I've also read a lot regarding the underclocking 'dangers' but couldn't find anything to prove that there is such an issue. I think that it is an urban myth spread everywhere by people asking if there is a danger with low vsel [but that are never getting a positive answer on it].
The only thing I found using setvSel is that I had to first install Milestone Overclock and load its module prior to start setvsel. There is a way around it, but requires you to copy files in the system folders and change their permissions. I find that my way is much easier.
As far as over-heating goes, it's an overclocking thing; not underclocking.
My Defy is set at 900Mhz and really, I don't see the point of going much higher: everything runs smooth and lag free already.
vsel: 21/300; 32/600; 43/900 - 90% up_threshold
Been like that for about a month now and never experienced any problem at all.
The underclocking is great for saving battery; no exact numbers to give here but it feels like my battery now last 2 times longer. I can easily get 4 days between charges with low/moderate usage and would get to 6+ days "IF" I could stay away from games and having the screen ON for long sessions of browsing/video watching.
I tried SetCpu before but I didn't like the interface; the simplicity of SetvSel is really nice.
i use setcpu for scaling and profiles, and run 18/300, 36/600, 50/1000 stable and smooth as
Undervolting is not a bad thing at all. It means less Watts consumed for running (Watts = Voltage x Amperage), less of your battery consumed.
Ussually companies test a large batch of components and how they react on different voltages and freqvencies, and then they decide for a voltage that works with all components and that is safe for all cases. Eg. when they have different CPU speeds and thus different options for CPU's this is one way to decide which one work at 3GHz and which one at 2.7 GHz (the other one is demand for components).
Phisically you will not have any problems and you can't damage your phone by undervolting, so no problem here, only possible software problems if you go too low.
Advantages :
+ Lower processor temperature
+ Lower phone temperature
+ Longer battery time
+ Longer components life
Disadvantages
- Stability issues (freeze, artefacts, slowness)
maxi2mc said:
Disadvantages
- Stability issues (freeze, artefacts, slowness)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, I was recording a video and when playing back noticed that there were squiggly lines that went through the video a couple of times (in a two minute clip). This was the first time I saw this...and have recently lowered vsel by 2 on vsel3...could that be the artifacts that you are mentioning?
I just figured it perhaps I was too bouncy with the phone while recording making it glitch...but now that I see this post I'm thinking maybe I undervolted too much...what do you think?
My settings: 54/1000 44/700 28/300
I know what people mean by same settings don't work for every phone even if it's the exact same model. My Defy won't underclock as much as others. I'm using SetVesel, and I've been able to drop 5 points from each, and that's about it before it reboots itself. I only tested undervolting, but I mainly overclock to get as much speed as I can, and give it enough juice to run super fast. I'm current running [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Threshold at 75%. The highest the temp ever got was 112F, and that was after playing a game for about an hour. Usually it stays below 90F for normal use. I get around 17-20 hours out of it with screen on time at about 3 hours @ 50% brightness. I've been running these settings about a month, and have not had any issues.
If you put something like 100vsel will the phone accept and then burn? Is there any protection? Does anyone know what's the highest acceptable vsel?
Just for curiosity...
im pretty sure 80 is the highest you should EVER use and that'll significantly increase the chances of your phone burning out. @bobbyphoenix you should be able to lower your vsels a fair bit or your really unlucky! i run a lower vsel for 1ghz than u do for 700mhz smooth and stable
stewi21 said:
im pretty sure 80 is the highest you should EVER use and that'll significantly increase the chances of your phone burning out. @bobbyphoenix you should be able to lower your vsels a fair bit or your really unlucky! i run a lower vsel for 1ghz than u do for 700mhz smooth and stable
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CM7, rather non-technical person here. I seem to have a very happy phone at setvsel settings of [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], 86%. Been running this for the month or so since I rooted and the phone feels like it was made for this config. I've never seen the temp above ~32c. My 2¢.
I am new to android phones. And i have no experience about overclock.
Will my cpu easily break down due to keep overclocking?..
Honestly, i seldom change my cell phone model, i want my defy can stay a life at least 1.5yr.
i think overclocking can't really damage your phone, voltage can. so i suggest you keep the voltage around [email protected] (default is [email protected], so this should be fine), and if the phone doesn't hang or reboot, you're good to go but you could try lowering vsels, you know, the lower the voltage, the lower the power consumption, the heat and the chance to fry your cpu but i'm not sure!
Yep, 1 GHz is safe, I'm using [email protected] as well, and the CPU is capable to run easily at [email protected] continuously. The leaked Gingerbread ROM from Motorola uses 1GHz as well, so don't worry, you just have to find the safe vsel settings.
thanks for replying, i m currently using 1GHz @ 58 .. Everything is alright
Should I make the voltage as low as possible?
yeah, just to lower the power consumption and temperature, but it isn't necessary.
Can you share your voltage setting please..?
I do the stability test and it gets successful run for 5min then this means the setting is okay?
i don't overclock, just undervolt, here are my settings (with setvsel):
800MHz - 45vsel
600MHz - 30vsel
300MHz - 18vsel
up_threshold: 90%
actually if you wanna make absolutely sure your device is stable, you should run it like for an hour. but if it runs for 5 minutes without error that's quite okay, you shouldn't have problems with those settings
Thanks so much, i m trying to lower my voltage setting.
Besides, i want to ask about the battery temperature, what is the maximum temperature before getting damage to the cell? I usually goes up to 37~39 degree celsius.. is it normal?
mine is usually around 29-32 °C, but i have it undervolted, so idk. but 37-39 seems a bit high, that means the cpu temp is way over 40 degrees, you should check it out!
EDIT: tried stress testing for 20 minutes with [email protected], it went up to 35°C, so you should definitely find out what's wrong with your device!
I actually underclocked to 600MHz, since I couldn't see a big difference even at 1200MHz in normal usage. A Pentium3 at 4Ghz will still not perform as well as a slower clocked new CPU for example, CPU design is more important - what instructions it supports.
Battery life is more imprtant to me and heat is very bad for Li-ion batteries too.
Also I found changing the CPU governor to "interactive" made a difference in GUI responsiveness and I have had less stuttering.
nisamtetreb said:
I actually underclocked to 600MHz, since I couldn't see a big difference even at 1200MHz in normal usage. A Pentium3 at 4Ghz will still not perform as well as a slower clocked new CPU for example, CPU design is more important - what instructions it supports.
Battery life is more imprtant to me and heat is very bad for Li-ion batteries too.
Also I found changing the CPU governor to "interactive" made a difference in GUI responsiveness and I have had less stuttering.
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so, what's your standby lifetime after underclocked cpu?
I can see the performance improved when i was watching flash video on browser. But honestly, i dont think there are anymore huge difference after overclocking..
But as the battery life still remains quite well, i will still keep overclocking to 1GHz.. Isn't it a good idea?
nisamtetreb said:
I actually underclocked to 600MHz, since I couldn't see a big difference even at 1200MHz in normal usage. A Pentium3 at 4Ghz will still not perform as well as a slower clocked new CPU for example, CPU design is more important - what instructions it supports.
Battery life is more imprtant to me and heat is very bad for Li-ion batteries too.
Also I found changing the CPU governor to "interactive" made a difference in GUI responsiveness and I have had less stuttering.
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lol... What happend to HD and THD games... Did u try playing them at 600mhz??
Overclocking to 1 GHz with the right voltage values seems to be absolutely no problem for Defy.
BTW, does anyone know whether it's possible to set scaling governor to "Interactive" mode under Froyo? Gingerbread kernel let me set it, but I haven't found the way under Froyo.
Battery life was a little bit better, the display and 3G always draw a lot of power.
Standby time got better, but I don't use very low vsel any more due to errors in YouTube and dropped connection of radio streams.
Before I used 300-600-800 at 20-30-48, this was very stable in stability test, but for example Youtube would start showing "error playing video". After I increased vsel, it went away.
I mostly did it to lower temperature, optimal temperature for li-ion is around 25°C according to Wikipedia I think.
I don't play 3d games, they would benefit the most from overclock I believe.
Angry birds RIO for example would stutter for a second or two after a level loaded, but it would become as smooth as at higher clocks, when I wait for a second.
I hope flash gets better, when hardware acceleration gets enabled in Quarx's CM7.
I was running [email protected] for a month straight. No issues at all. The highest my temp reached was 112F after playing games for about an hour straight. I now just run it at [email protected], and it's plenty fast for me. I did some "testing" with all the options in SetVsel. It's not science sound, but if you use the Gingerbread Icon in the notification bar, and are running at stock (800 speed) you will notice when the CPU maxes out it doesn't even reach full capacity. I found Words with Friends to really use the CPU, and at 800 it pings the meter in the orange (The notification icon shows green, orange, and red for "zones"). If I overclock it at 1000 or above then the meter goes into the red. I don't know the exact number it switches from orange to red, but being at stock 800 is well below what the chip can really do since it doesn't even max out the meter. I hope I didn't confuse anyone. It makes sense to me.
weird...my cpu at any game reach the 800mhz
yet even in normal situations like browsing through the files on the phone it reaches 800mhz
and also despite the values i use in setvsel are not high(which is:
24 @ 300
34 @ 600
48 @ 800
)
the phone still reaches maximum 38C when i play games and if i set the value in the third vsel the games starts to hang!!
seems like i am the only one who have these problems..but why
anyone have any idea
im running stock arabic froyo btw
if someone can confirm to me that i can keep Arabic language if i installed another rom using custom restore in nandroid then i would be using prays or official 2.3 but no one answered me about that
anyway the important thing is anyone knows why my cpu temp is always high?
Well ambient temperature is important too. If it is 30°C where you live and your phone's temperature is at 35°C I'd say you are good. If the outside temperature is 10°C and your phone is dat 40°C I'd say there is something wrong (unless you were playing games or watching a movie).
in my opinion, it is definitely safe that you overclocking to the leaked moto level.
however, the voltage is still a mystery.
there's no constant conclusion about this.
i'm using [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], and it works fine for me
I'm getting really annoyed. No problems clocking up to 1100mhz with stock voltage (58). But changing the voltage settings, even slightly, makes the phone more or less unstable.
overclock dameges hardware but does it damage device or just battery
The Hardware is the Device or the battery....
every thing you can touch is hardware :3
I've never overclocked a phone from myself... Unfortunately previous experiences with PC overclocking have ended badly with a lot of components breaking, if you know what your doing, I've found the results can be more than worth the risk!
Overclocking your phone will put more stress on your hardware, CPU will attempt to run more bits of information than it's designed for, battery will be pushing out more power to keep up with hardware demand, etc...etc...
Computers are easier to handle in terms of overclocking because you can modify hardware such as liquid cooling or bigger fans to support the extra heat generated from your adjustments. The strain on the hardware will always be there but it's easier to manage than portable devices. Phones on the other hand are restricted in terms of cooling; you may notice a larger amount of heat generated when you're playing games or running Google Maps. In most cases, always remember that heat = bad in terms of most things technology related... Unless it's a toaster oven.
I had a Motorola Droid for over 2 years (before my SE switch) and I had overclocked it to around the 1GHz marker (550MHz stock), the only thing that kept my Droid from blowing up was using a Ultra Low Voltage Kernel and Memory Management. While that may seem reassuring I know in the back of my head that I'm still cutting away at the overall life cycle of my hardware. My phone would heat up anytime I had to travel with GPS and that only reminded me that my phone would explode at any moment... Well, not really explode but that would've been a cool experience.
It's your choice to overclock your phone or not, just keep in mind that even while using a LV Kernel and managing your memory the stress on the CPU, Battery, and RAM is there. (I personally believe) Hardware now-a-days can handle the stress and most likely you'll be getting a new phone in 2-3 years time anyway.
n0_face said:
Overclocking your phone will put more stress on your hardware, CPU will attempt to run more bits of information than it's designed for, battery will be pushing out more power to keep up with hardware demand, etc...etc...
Computers are easier to handle in terms of overclocking because you can modify hardware such as liquid cooling or bigger fans to support the extra heat generated from your adjustments. The strain on the hardware will always be there but it's easier to manage than portable devices. Phones on the other hand are restricted in terms of cooling; you may notice a larger amount of heat generated when you're playing games or running Google Maps. In most cases, always remember that heat = bad in terms of most things technology related... Unless it's a toaster oven.
I had a Motorola Droid for over 2 years (before my SE switch) and I had overclocked it to around the 1GHz marker (550MHz stock), the only thing that kept my Droid from blowing up was using a Ultra Low Voltage Kernel and Memory Management. While that may seem reassuring I know in the back of my head that I'm still cutting away at the overall life cycle of my hardware. My phone would heat up anytime I had to travel with GPS and that only reminded me that my phone would explode at any moment... Well, not really explode but that would've been a cool experience.
It's your choice to overclock your phone or not, just keep in mind that even while using a LV Kernel and managing your memory the stress on the CPU, Battery, and RAM is there. (I personally believe) Hardware now-a-days can handle the stress and most likely you'll be getting a new phone in 2-3 years time anyway.
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The life cycle on phones today is far longer then you would expect. Every processor can handle more speed then the manufacturer clocked it at but they will never release a device with a processor at its full potential. Unless your taking your xperia play and o/c to constant 2ghz you really will never see a degrade in its life. Even o/c'ed the phone will outlast a 2 yr contract.
I recently went back to my OG Droid because my Xplay is torn apart. My droid is 125 min - 1300 max and had the device for 3 years. It have always used the 125 -1300 max with regular voltage with no profiles, yes if your o/c and using navigation its gonna heat up, the droid heats up at 550mhz on navigation with stock kernel , but then again when navigating I would always underclock to keep the heat down. It was never gonna blow up and it will run another few years im sure, its a trustworthy backup !
With all the phones I've had , never had a problem with overclocking , no damage to device or battery, except reboots if clocked to high or reboots if not enough voltage (every device and processor are different though, even the ones with same make and model) which is why you should still be careful, you could get a device that just won't like anything you do to it, but I've never had that problem
it really depends how much you overclock it. most cpus are underclocked especially in phones for battery life reasons. ive been running by pc at about 130% for two years with no issues. now if you double the speed 2ghz (1.9Ghz doomlord kernel) that would mess up you device super fast lol
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
AFAIK Microsoft intended to fit an innovative kind of heat sink into their Lumia 950 and finally produced a standard design w/o particular cooling devices due to difficulties.
I have no clue how anything could be done. Except replacing the back cover with something thicker, offering room for heatsinks, fans, peltier elements or such.
But the Note should at least have thermal throttling and emergency shutdown features, like all current phones, which will throttle within the first half minute under full load.
franzli said:
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
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Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
Thanks for your answers so far!
@lecorbusier yes, I suspect it has throttling, but in the interest of better running it would be nice to avoid throttling when possible. I'm not sure about the effect on battery life - throttling might be good in that a reduced frequency might need less energy, but running hot in the first place is probably bad for battery life.
In fact, part of my problem might stem from either the ROM or some apps I am running - Squid on temasek's CM13. Maybe I just never noticed this before, or didn't use squid so often, but I've noticed that the last couple of days CPU gets up to over 70°C at times with just some writing in squid. Not sure if this is normal, will probably post it in the CM13 thread. But my general idea/wish to improve cooling still stands independently of that.
Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
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That sounds like an effective method (and I guess in a way one might call it a mod ). I'm thinking about something more portable, and hence passive though.
I will probably try opening up and having a look at the current cooling mechanism to see if adding a copper shim or a better silicone heat sink etc. might help things. Another consideration would be a modded case that contains some metal instead of plastic on the back side. That might help to take away some of the heat even though the plastic back of the device itself probably remains a poor heat conductor. Might be a complicated mod, but I'll see if I can come up with a way to do that. If/when I manage to get something done, or some new thoughts, I will advise here.
Any further input of course still very welcome!
Metal will disturb the various antennas.
A back cover replacement containing one or two fans, adding 1 to 2cms of thickness, and draining the battery with the fans while looking clumsy, thats the "best" solution I could imagine.
Or a back cover replacement containing one or two copper plates, cut and arranged in a way that the antennas aren't too handicapped. Probably you have to remove the various EMI shields to be able to establish direct contact between the chipset and the plates. That is, if the chips don't have contact with the shield plates.
I think this will be something never been done before, but probably after.
Like the battery mod for phones, where you solder one battery together with a second one and cut a hole in the back cover, that the now double-thick battery may fit. That's already been done.
Good point about the antennae, I hadn't thought about that! That also makes sense of the lack of metal cases (facepalm). Might still try modding a case with some metal in some spots at some points, but good to keep in mind how this might impact wifi and bluetooth.
My plan was to see if there'd be a chance to fit some slim copper plates in strategic position on top of the CPU inside the normal case. I'll have to open it up and see how much, if any, space there is - but will probably try this first on a Galaxy Tab S 8.4 that I rely on less for productivity (and that does actually get way to hot, to the point of self-shutdown). Whenever I find the time that is...
Will report when I get around to doing anything on the Note (and might open a topic at the Tab S forum in case I do try a mod there first).
I added a copper shim for cooling to my Galaxy Tab S (will put a more detailed post on that forum when I find some time), which seems to have helped to control temperatures somewhat better. I had two odd crashes, but had some before I did the mod, so am relatively confident that's a problem of the ROM rather than my mod.
Will probably try it on my Note as well soon and report here for anyone who might be interested.
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
franzli said:
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
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Thanks for the update. I did some baseline checks for you, using the same StabilityTest app for consistancy purposes. I am also on temaseks build, cm13 more specifically. I run temaseks 12.1 build just as often as the cm13, so I will run the tests there as well. I revert back to my stock rooted kitkat rom about 1 or 2 days per week so I'll check the temps on that ROM as well.
So, at idle I'm a little warmer than you, hovering between 37C and 40C. Under normal use (like web browsing) I'm between 50C and no higher than 57C. Under stress (again, using same app) I was at 90C at 5 minutes and 91C after 10 minutes. So slightly warmer on low end, nearly identical on the big end. I have the samsung flip cover thats specifically made to fit the 2014 edition on mine, so that could account for my slightly warmer temps. Its worth noting that when gaming on a VERY cpu demanding game, I never reach anything above 78C. Its probably one of the top 10 most cpu demanding games on play store and BY FAR the most I ever demand from my CPU, consuming a whooping 1.5-2Gb of RAM at times.
I'll check the numbers on my other 2 normally used ROMs here in the next few hours and I'll post those results too :good:
On a side note, my galaxy s6 phone (completely stock, near new) averages nearly indentical cpu temps and after researching the matter on it, I found that those temps (on the s6) are what others are getting as well. So it seems that, generally speaking, samsungs might just run with warmer temperatures. I did see somewhere that 100C is kinda the 'YIKES!' point for them and that they start clocking down around that temp to prevent permanent damage
franzli said:
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
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Ok, I've done some testing with a few different ROMs and I think you might be as susprised with the results as I am. First of all I need to correct myself in my last post. The initial testing I did was on temaseks unofficial CM12.1 build, not on the CM13 build. I have now tested on temaseks cm 12.1 and cm13 builds, my stock rooted & debloated 4.4.2 ROM and an old nandroid backup I have of hyperdrives 4.4.2 ROM. Heres what I found...
Temaseks CM13 build ran the hottest and was by far the most stressful on the processors and therefore ran the hottest. It consistantly kept the CPU clocked at near max (even when set to "ondemand"), whether needed or not (with no background process running) and would only reduce power when forced via CPU governor or was at the safety threshold for temperature, which I can now comfortably say is about 95C. Tablet was slightly warm to the touch at idle with a temperature of between 50C & 55C. Under moderate load temperature jumped very raidly to the mid 80C range and then would stay there pretty steadily. Under heavy load, CPU temp quickly peaked at 94C where while watching the CPU output, it was obvious the CPUs were going in & out of protection mode as they would drop to 1600MHz, then peak at 1900MHz, 1600MHz, 1900MHz & repeat this. I didnt let this go on for more than about 2 min before shutting down and allowing tablet to cool.
Next, I repeated tests on both touchwiz based kitkat ROMs I have backups for. 1 of them is stock, rooted, debloated and un"tweaked". The other is stock, rooted, debloated and tweaked. Both ran MUCH cooler, peaking at 80C & 82C. These were ocassional spikes and actually averaged around 75C when under heavy load. Now comes the good news...
I have identified a major contributor of excessive CPU temps. When testing on the touchwiz ROMs and observing CPU clocking in relation to CPU temps, I found that the governors are set lower in these touchwiz ROMs. They were a steady 1300MHz with the occasional 1600MHz spike. They averaged 55C to 63C under moderate load and when under heavy load never reached more than 82C.
So, I am now back on my long time daily driver, temaseks cm12. 1 build and I'm ditching the CM13 build entirely. At least for now. I have set my CPU governors down to 1300MHz and with heavy load for nearly 30 minutes (gaming) my CPU peaked at 85C. So my findings were that CM ROM has overclocked the CPUs excessively. They are set to 1900MHz, which has become obvious to me brings them right up to their temperature safety threshold, 95C. It seems Samsung clocked them at 1300MHz and allowed for occasional spikes above this point, keeping them at a maxium & slightly more reasonable 85C a full 10C cooler than their maximum safe operating temp.
I never expected I'd stumble on not only a source, but also that I've been utilizing the solution for months. I should add that governing the CPU lower has had absolutely no effect on performance. I regularly shut down 1 or 2 CPU cores as it is. I found that the tablet will run perfectly under normal use with only 2 cores. This reduces temperature and increases battery life. Sluthing can be so much fun sometimes, it was right in front of my face I just never put 2 & 2 together lol :good:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
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Click to collapse
Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
thebadwrench said:
Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
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Click to collapse
Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
ollimi1 said:
Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
thebadwrench said:
I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
View attachment 3732472
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Yeah, good news!
I am positive surprised that kernel Adiutor is working, seems we have build-in UCI, which is needed, nice! Using KA on my OP2 since a long time but there is no custom kernel for p600 cm13 roms so I have not tried!
Will try it now!:good:
Thanks!!
thebadwrench said:
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
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Click to collapse
I replaced the silicone heat pad on the CPU with a copper shim and thermal compound, added some small silicone pads around other components (all under the heat shields) and added a .5mm silicone heat pad on top of the main heat shield to enhance contact with the back plate. I do have some pictures, but I want to provide a proper write-up and currently don't have much time as I'm moving. Will hopefully find a chance to give a more detailed write-up in May - sorry for the delay, but full report is forthcoming!
As for the CM13 issues, @joshndroid apparently implemented some changes to it in the last build, so I might check that out, although I agree that CM12.1 is probably still the safer bet for a stable daily driver.
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Franzli,
The kernel seems odd to me!
The small A7 cluster is virtually unused and clocked only to 650MHz @ 1200ma !! Normal is 1.3GHz @ 1200ma for the small A7 cluster on 5420! Also a lot of warnings and errors in ksmg!
No idea whether the A7 ever used or permanently in idle mode, Lol!
Also all 4 big a15 cores are always online, what means no hotplug driver available!
I don't know if we will ever see a good kernel for CM13 because of the missing sources.
Although the kernel is running and mostly stable it is far from "good"!
Power consumption is almost doubled, problems with overheating and sometimes cpu is locked at max. speed and the only way to solve it is a reboot.
I don't remember the cm12.1 kernel but he was definately better in terms of battery runtimes and reliability.
BTW, I'll also mod the device cooling using bigger copper sheets instead of the perforated aluminum sheets, thermal-pads and thermal-grease when I start changing my battery and usb jack, what is definately neccessary in my case!
Maybe I will buy one of the small heatpipes used in S7 or so when I find them somewhere.
It is not difficult to adjust it if needed, so that it can replace the heatspreader.
Mabye it is needed to isolate the heatpipe from the mainboard but nothing what a piece of kapton tape not can do.
franzli said:
Hi all!
[...] But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures [...]
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? [...]
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Click to collapse
Hallo there
Well I just did the job. I have also made a short manual and would like to share it with you. But first some things about me and my tablet.
I bought a used galaxy note 10.1 2014 edition SM-P600 couple months ago. I was really disappointed about the device performance. Switching from stock android 5.1 to [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] did some improvements in performance. But since I am a very heavy web surfer I was still not satisfied with the performance. I have also tried [P600][Touchwiz] Marshmallow Rom 20170622 and went back to RR because I can play around with the CPU governors and all that deathy audiutor stuff. Between very nice work Exynos Team and all the other developers...
Soon I realized that the SM-P600 becomes fairly hot in the backside. I took a look at the ifixit pictures. There was no other way finding good resolution pictures of the inside.
I ended up installing cool tool app. Well is there any other good app for monitoring temps, clock and load in overly?
Well so I added frequency, load, battery temp and cpu temp. You need to add cpu temp manually. I guess it is Label ->
custom label -> enable- Then you have to go fine tuning -> custom label -> path:/sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp. leace everything as it is. regex is (\d+)\d{3} and add postfix °C and prefix cpu:
.
So I went along and analysed heat and temps in the galaxy 10.1 2014 edition. Especially frequency-temp-ratio. And I can tell you this buddy is everything else than cool. Temps jump up so fast I can't tell you. Even some fast scrolling on ebay, facebook desktop web page in browser treated the Temperature to the hight 80s and soon the high 90s. I have also seen the things franzli mentioned before. Even light work put so much heat to the processor. Watching the frequency and temperature bounce was a pain. I could feel the pain that little Exynos 5420 must suffer of all the time.Throttling is the only ways this little buddy can survive To make it short I decided to do the cooling mod...
So lets see what I found on my journey ... I can tell you that's a big surprise
I opened the case very easily. You can find tons of videos on youtube or use ifixit.
Well I have to mention I am an electronics hardware engineer. So doing this stuff is nothing unique for me. And I have years of professional PCB manufacturing, repair experience.
Opening the case, adding some tape and this is what you get...
As you can see there is a little thermal pad applied to the aluminium shielding. And boooom there you are . Do you see all thet flux solder remains? How come samsung? Seriously?
This is the shielding close up with that thermal pad.
As you can see the FBGA package is covered with flux from soldering. So it is naturally, that the cooling in the galaxy is a pain. There can't bee any good heat flow.
So let's check that thermal pad.
woops that little buddy is kinda to small. I am sad to see this.
Well I cleaned the surface as good as I can with ethanol. After this I applied a new Thermal pad.
After that it looked like this.
Then I closed the shielding case and cleaned it.
So next comes the actual cooling mod. I added a big thermal pad.
I had to cut that little hook in the back plate. So that the 100mmx100mm copper layer will fit in shape.
And this is it done.
So what about the results :laugh:
The back plate fits perfectly. If you know there is a thin layer of copper you can feel it. But it is so less. I had no problem closing the case. Ahh yeah I had to tage it with double sided tape, so it is pressed down to the thermal. The back plate will do the rest pressure.
And really don't worry about the wifi interference. There is no worry. Because the copper layer is located on top of the bettery pack and shielding case. Why should there be any interference? I have tried. Reaching same wifi performance as always. No worries:good:
So what about heating. Well my galaxy note stays pretty cool.
I need to mention this is all mesured with the [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] I mentioned before.
I used interactive governor.
I reach in Antutu v6.2.7 about 57000 to 58000
In futuremark work 2.0 I get 4000
Here some pics
I am sorry for that high resolution pics. But I wanted best of (bad) quality. I used my redmi note 4 for taking pictures. If you can't read all in the pics, just open in new window.
There isn't any more throttling at all. It is hard to push to 85°C or above now. Just with synthetic GPU and CPU load on all four cores at once. And it takes a couple of minutes. But in real world you will never get it. With only load on one core my maximum is 69 to 72°C. The tablet fells pretty nice now. The warming in the back plate is reduced to a very large surface. So sometimes it fells as if your hands warm up the case.
Can you suggest me any ROm with a good overclocking potential? I have already tried this ROM. I really don't know why, but it keeps crashing all the time at 2GHz or 2.1 GHz. Even with no load at all. I guess the used kernel is bad.
Do you have any ROM suggestion for me.
If you have any quastions and things you want me to test write me.
Just wanted to share my experience with you. I didn't expect a dirty PCB, BGA and thermal pad like this. So what do you think about this.