Develop Bugs

HTC Touch on Universal ?

Hi,
as many of you allready know, HTC released the new HTC Touch as a response to Apple's iPhone.
I looked at some videos on youtube and some technical specs of the phone.. and it simply seems a program that runs on a WM6. So it shouldn't be some difficult to port it to other devices, I don't think that the HTC Touch has some special hardware or touchscreen.
The only thing I read is that it has different touchscreen drivers, but that shouldn't be a problem: I already saw here on xda-dev many other ports or programming miracles
Ok it's a program native for QVGA... that sucks and could possibly cause many problems to port it on the Universal.
It could also be that it wouldn't have decent performance playing the animantions (page flip,...) because of the VGA resolution.
I don't know.... but I would like to create this thread in order to see the progress and the news of the Touch Technology (let's call it so) port on Universal.
Helmi, Midget and all other gurus of the universal... please help us with this cool Touch Tech
Videos of the HTC Touch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI9h3TRndhY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8PMcvYTZo
...and here is some basic infos and some dumps:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=311225
I've to say that the today plugin and the rest of the menus are very similar to Spb Mobile Shell... the only thing more are the gestures that you can make on the touchscreen and the animations between the menus.
Ok let's go!
We'll see how it goes on now

So...
It's kinda just a new interface for Windows Mobile?

Yep
markymanxxx said:
So...
It's kinda just a new interface for Windows Mobile?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep I think so too. It doesn't seem to me that there are significant hardware differences between the HTC Touch and other PocketPCs.
But let's wait and see what our gurus say to it

Sorry to dissapoint....
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys & gals, but over at the Athena and Hermes forums and some others over at 4winmobile have been looking into this for some time now and there is a major difference other than the .dll driver.
The Touch has a new technology screen that is completely different from what has been in PPC's before. Most of the software can be ported from the HTC Touch/Elf, and will work on QVGA WM5/6 devices and some conversions will be necessary for our VGA devices, but the actual Cube Touch GUI will NOT work without the right hardware.
see here for more info:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=310459&page=3
mackaby007 said:
Been following a cool thread over at 4winmobile.com about the whole HTC Touch themes, cabs and interface etc...Looks like everything else is transferable, except the cube GUI, as......
Also...
Sorry peeps. Looks like new screen hardware after all But no one is giving up on an alternative.
Anyway, take a look at that thread anyway as it is very interesting all the same.
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/hermes-black-rom-announcements/9739-black-iv-shadow-preview.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

have to confirm that it is new hardware, and that the plugins/programs have the resolution hard-coded into them so nothing useful for our uni yet...
interestingly enough though the biotouch (what they call it) calls use native windows mobile dll's (albeit new functions that previously were not in there, so we can speculate that this isnt a one off and more devices will be seen with these type of screens)

dll's and VGA
Basically when I see how they use this touchscreen I see no big difference between an old one.
For the cube GUI the system has only to recognize a "touch & drag" on the screen. If this function isn't in our dll's they could somehow be ported on our uni
But the most big problem I see is the VGA resolution.....
Anyone knows the HTC Touch specs? Has it some new and high performance graphic chip (perhaps nvidia or something similar?)
Because we have to consider that VGA = 4x QVGA (number of pixels) and as I know our beatuful Uni hasn't a luxus graphic processor. I remember some benchmarks and compared to other devices it had a somehow slower graphic chip.
I'm afraid that if we can port the gui to Uni on VGA it won't work with decent performance
Does anyone know more of the Cube GUI? Is it precalculated (only an animation) or is it a realtime rapresentation of the current objects flipping over the faces of a cube?
To be honest I think it's precalculated graphics... Why make it realtime and performance-cost? The cube turns very fast and it would very difficult to see the difference between a simple animation and a real 3d rendering.
And when we think how many open processes a user has on his pocketpc; I could easly imagine that if we only were listening to music with an mp3 player, with a resident antivirus (lol) and some other background apps....the cube would have big problems to be rendered at a decent framerate.
Ok these are only speculations, I have no idea of how the HTC Touch really works. I only saw the youtube presentation
If the cube won't be ported on Uni... I'll wait for someone to adapt Beryl for PocketPC eheheheh lol
Go on folks...
Greets

Touch on..... Prophet.
I made some changes in touch rom and it can run on my prophet, but i have alot of bugs like battery bug and touchscreen bug.

Silver_Gost said:
I made some changes in touch rom and it can run on my prophet, but i have alot of bugs like battery bug and touchscreen bug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does the cube GUI work (even partially) ?

are there no news for the Universal??

TouchFlo 3D

Check this out
http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=46294
does someonae has the new HTC touch 3d........-----
I WANT IT.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

isnt it only for htc touch diamond?

It isn't out yet. The 3d Touchflo Interface debuts with the HTC Diamond. Should be out by June/July.

I forgot to mention that the 3d Touchflo Interface demands better hardware and memory than most of the devices any of us has currently. The chances that it will run smoothly with our devices are very slim.

I think its a little sluggish on Touch Diamond itseld from what Ive heard from some of those who attended the press event.
Imagining it on Artemis could only be a joke.. It requires a GPU. And it also looks like this application has a lot of locks preventing cookers from porting. But still XDA-dev has much better hackers to overcome those. Lets wait for the devices on the market first.
Regards,
Carty..

here is a couple of words...i'd like to have 3d,but i suppose its not possible
However, a TouchFLO 3D upgrade for current HTC Touch smartphones (like the Touch, Touch Dual or Touch Cruise) isn't planned due to increased and changed hardware requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

if this was called HTC manila when it was in the development stage then i hav a ver of this(cab file) which is meant for VGA screen PPCs only

fair does that phone looks stunning,i was gonna get the orbit 2, but the diamond is much faster and better looking, quite looking forward to this one

After see Pontui Home runing so smoothly on my Artemis, I have a little hope that this programa will not demand a Hi-end hardware to run. I HOPE!!!

....
working man said:
After see Pontui Home runing so smoothly on my Artemis, I have a little hope that this programa will not demand a Hi-end hardware to run. I HOPE!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that same . too

CAB File
Can you post this CAB file?
sheennick123456:
if this was called HTC manila when it was in the development stage then i hav a ver of this(cab file) which is meant for VGA screen PPCs only
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

HTC manila AKA touch flo 3D
here you go
http://www.4shared.com/file/47016031/5436a738/manila1001030release.html
i checked it........it is the same user interface tht is in the htc diamond
but remember it is only for VGA ppcs n wont work on artemis
some people hav tried it on various VGA ppcs n the app runs only on HTC made ppcs(doesnt work on O2 XDA flame)
u may get framerates like 10-15fps

I have a X50v that's with my friend. I'll make a try...

Hi, In this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=363500&page=14
a developer called dobb try to adapt the manila VGA to QVGA and release a version alpha and beta that works in the qvga devices but obviously run slow and need to adapt the soft buttons. You can install the cab of VGA version and the dll's, thus overwrite the files in manila folder with the alpha or beta version of QVGA.(This version need to polish more)
The version posted for sheennick123456 was a beta of touchflo3d leaked in january 2008, and with greater reason, the actual version should run faster.
I have no doubt that any developer here not only achieved by extracting the touchflo3d but also the driver to run correctly.
Think about that:
When "Touch" released, HTC said the touchflo could only run on those Devices because of the special hardware (screen), but there are many of us who run the touchflo in our Artemis without such hardware (screen).
Greetings

really it isn't working... i installed it and i don't know how to uninstall.. anybody??

it creates a folder named manila somewhere in the device memory
i dont recollect the exact path but i guess it is in the my documents
all u have to do is delete this folder

If you want to uninstall you have to:
delete the folder in Program Files/Manila
delete all registry in HKLM/software/microsoft/today/items/manila
delete manilatoday.dll in windows folder
I tried in my artemis and works slowly but the second beta needs more work.

ryomahino said:
If you want to uninstall you have to:
delete the folder in Program Files/Manila
delete all registry in HKLM/software/microsoft/today/items/manila
delete manilatoday.dll in windows folder
I tried in my artemis and works slowly but the second beta needs more work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what i did on "blind" thanks anyway... let's hope that some of the "gods" over here will adjust it for Artemis

Dont works on Kaiser WM6....

I have one, battery sucks. it's ok kinda hard to get around
cvenk said:
Check this out
http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=46294
does someonae has the new HTC touch 3d........-----
I WANT IT.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have one it'ss hard to move around and remember keys, battery sucks too,

OpenGL / D3D attn:NFSFAN

Hi all, I have been following HTCclassaction etc and have done extensive googling to find out the state of an open GL driver for our Vogue (MSM 7500).
The closest hope I had is NFSFAN's roms and post's at PPCHaven.
NFSFAN, you stated you are working on this, any updates so far? Also when (not if, I greatly respect your amount of talent) you finally come up with a workable driver will you release it to the comunity as a whole as well as in your ROMS?
Thanks for the update, and thank you very much for all your work to date. It is very much appreciated.

I found this document on BREW forums (Qualacom). It is about software solutions for msm7500 chipsets regarding openGL es.
It's a little over my head but maybe someone on here can use it.
I can't upload it because it is over the forums limits. I've never used rapidshare or megaupload before but i'll try. Here is some previews of the header so you know what it's about:
3D Performance
Optimization
Angus Dorbie
Staff Engineer (3D)- Gaming Technologies Group
MSM7500 – Major Carriers FFAs NOW
MSM7500 Graphics Pipeline Overview
• Licenced integrated OpenGL® ES solution
• Hardware accelerated vertex and pixel processing
• Integrated in MSM processor
• OpenGL ES 1.0 Common profile + all major 1.1 features
• Extension: OES_vertex_buffer_object,
EGL_QUALCOMM_color_buffer, ATI_TC Compression, Texture
Combiners, Texture Crossbar, Alternative Texture
Coordinate Formats, Matrix Palette, DrawTexture, Point
Sprites
• Java JSR-184, D3D, SKT’s GIGA, HI’s V4, Superscape’s
Swerve APIs support implemented on top of OpenGL ES
pipeline
etc etc,
shows some neat graphics of what can be attained, detailed analysis of the chipset etc.

Well that was easy, here it is:
http://http://rapidshare.com/files/182666655/Prog-401_Dorbie_v05.pdf.html

Couldnt open the page. Can you try again?

Ooops, first time radipshare user mistake.
edited the link, it should work now I just tested it myself.

I reached the d/l limit so I will try in about 15 minutes. I am not a developer, but I am really interested in getting 3d workiong on our phones and am feeling inclined to learn alot and then perhpas get involved via htcclassaction.org. I'm more of an activitst than anything else! But I do really appreciate everything that people do on here and am more than happy to be a guinnea pig with my phone.

No, fully accelerated Hardware Direct3D is not possible on the Vogue. The DDI doesn't have the required calls it takes for Hardware Accelerated D3D. The closest I ever got was porting standalone OpenGL and a faster Software Accelerated D3D driver, but it is nowhere near the performance of a true Hardware D3D driver.

"The closest I ever got was porting standalone OpenGL and a faster Software Accelerated D3D driver"
That's still closer than most people have ever gotten. The only phone htcclassaction has a driver for is the Kaiser. You seem to be the only one that was able to develop this for the Vogue. The effort is appreciated, I remember when you were the only Dev interested in releasing Bell ROMS.
Any chance of releasing the 2 (your stand alone OpenGL and software driver) to the community as cab files?
Thanks again
Jason

You will need a patched XIP with a diamond wce_rex.dll and mmmap.dll. Then you will need clkregim.dll in the ROM. I can't release a community pack, because I doubt any other vogue rom that you will find other than mine has these files.

Thanks for the reply,
Guess I might have to flash again sometime soon.....Darn!!

Managed DirectX For Windows Mobile

Hi,
Unfortunanately there isn't yet a lot of information available out on the net regarding development using Microsoft.WindowsMobile.DirectX namespace.
I am hoping we can start a new forum section dedicated to just this? What do you guys think?
I've only been working with it for about a week now, and I am struggling to find helpful information, and am figuring out a lot of things through trial and error (note the SDK documentation is quite thin too!).
Is there anyone else on this site that is keen to collaborate and share DirectX experiences?

i'm very interested in but i failed in basics (look here) and nobody here seems something to know about that.
one year before i gained few expieriences in direct3d. its similar but not the same to develop for mobile...
did you get running the examples of d3d from the ms mobile sdk?

heggenhugo said:
did you get running the examples of d3d from the ms mobile sdk?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, all the examples (not) in the SDK worked. I put "not" in parentheses because it took me a long time to locate them as the are no longer included as part of the .Net compact framework SDKs or the DirectX compact framework.
I am working on a simple app now that will determine the hardwares capabilities, allowing developers to quickly discover which devices their apps/games will run on. But I am still only just getting used to the environment also.

could you send me please (or link) a working example? it would be enough to see how to create a d3d window. i want to develop an application that uses the g-sensor to navigate in a little 3d environment (for instance turn around a cube or sth like this).
ty

VB.Net D3DM Samples - DirectX Capabilities App
Here are all the MS provided examples. I have not tried them all, but most of them work (on my device). The emulators run them, but very very slowly.
I have also attached the ActiveX Capabilites Test.exe application I created which will show you exactly what DirectX features are available on a particular device.
It requires .Net 3.5 to be installed.
View attachment VB.zip - Vb.Net samples
View attachment 250790 - DirectX Capability Test (install to device)

A good start
Anyone looking to get started on Mobile DirectX Development, should start with the fundimentals of the Managed DirectX Runtimes.
I recommend "Managed DirectX 9 Kick Start - Graphics and Game Programming" by Tom Miller. It's a good start into the world of Managed DirectX.

Does Rhodium have driver issues [?]

Greetings
Does Rhodium have driver issues like the HTC devices based on the MSM7200 and MSM7500 chipsets from Qualcomm?
for more about the "driver issues" visit this link
Update: (The following page has been last updated at 2008)
http://www.htcclassaction.org/
If yes, .. is there a solution? ... and does it really effect the normal performance of the device or is it just in "3D games" or something like that?
Note: I found a topic about it but it was not related to Rhodium, ... i wanted to ask about Rhodium specifically and since the topic there are not specifically for Rhodium users, ... i posted it here
Cheers
Update: URL for Enhanced Custom D3D Driver (for Rhodium):
Enhanced D3D Driver (for Rhodium)

Doesnt seem so:
* HTC TyTN II (MSM7200), also known as:
o HTC Kaiser
o T-Mobile MDA Vario III
o AT&T Tilt
o Vodafone v1615
* HTC Touch Dual (MSM7200), also known as:
o HTC Nike
* HTC Touch Cruise (MSM7200), also known as:
o HTC Polaris
o O2 XDA Orbit II
* HTC Wings (MSM7200), also known as:
o HTC S730
* HTC Titan (MSM7500), also known as:
o Sprint Mogul PPC-6800
o Verizon XV6800
* HTC Vogue (MSM7500), also known as:
o HTC Touch P3050 (this is not the normal HTC Touch)
o Sprint Touch
o Verizon Touch XV6900
* HTC Libra (MSM7500), also known as:
o HTC S720
* HTC Iris (MSM7500), also known as:
o HTC S640
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I did read that from the website, ... but the last update of that page was at 2008 thats 2 years ago and the Rhodium did not exist at that time .. so i was wondering wither the Touch Pro2 have the same problem

seriously? .. noone is aware of this issue?

Enhanced D3D Drivers
I know, there is a cab files supposed to increase TP2 graphics possibilities. Especially for video and games. It is a cab file. The name is:
At0mAng Enhanced D3D Drivers but I can't find it, for the moment.
Keep on searchin'.... ;-)

I'd say that every Windows Mobile HTC with a Qualcomm MSM7xxx processor has graphics driver problems. While it may not be nearly as bad on the Rhodium as it was on previous devices, all the devices still underperform. It could just be Windows Mobile, but if you put an Android device with proper GPU drivers (aka any Android device) and put it next to a Pro2 and run some kind of graphics benchmark on each, the performance difference is staggering between the two. Even the HD2 has graphics problems, and unofficial drivers had to be released to replace the under performing drivers included.

woaloo said:
I know, there is a cab files supposed to increase TP2 graphics possibilities. Especially for video and games. It is a cab file. The name is:
At0mAng Enhanced D3D Drivers but I can't find it, for the moment.
Keep on searchin'.... ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Epic!!! ... thank you, i found it, i did not know what to look for (exact keywords )
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
I'd say that every Windows Mobile HTC with a Qualcomm MSM7xxx processor has graphics driver problems. While it may not be nearly as bad on the Rhodium as it was on previous devices, all the devices still underperform. It could just be Windows Mobile, but if you put an Android device with proper GPU drivers (aka any Android device) and put it next to a Pro2 and run some kind of graphics benchmark on each, the performance difference is staggering between the two. Even the HD2 has graphics problems, and unofficial drivers had to be released to replace the under performing drivers included.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanx for the input! i guess you're right, the TP2 has this problem, .... but the Custome D3D seems to work like a charm, .. wonder wither it will have effect in the PS emulator
URL for Custom D3D Driver (for Rhodium):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=546522