Develop Bugs

noob posts

Hi all,
im new to this forum and i would just like to say reading this forum is most of a time a pain due to the amount of useless posting an irrelevant noise on most threads
alot of these threads with 20+ pages could really be alot more concise holding only relevant or important tech info.
it just seems you have to read page after page filtering out 90% of the posts for that 10% of tech goodness.
i guess what im hoping for is more nazi admin type behaviour or at least more flaming from the more senior members of the community, Im sure this is a problem all over these forums but it would be good if less crap was posted in the hermes sections.

And you post this off-topic rant in the WM6 forum?
Man, the irony is killing me.

i was referring to post not threads but now that you mention it theres alot of **** threads too.
what is irony and how do i install it.

First make sure your attention is properly connected to this thread. Then download and install Irony v2.0! It's obviously better than 1.2 and fixes alot of these error posts. lol

bleeding_edge said:
i was referring to post not threads but now that you mention it theres alot of **** threads too.
what is irony and how do i install it.
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Actually, if you knew better you would realize that the first post was ironic, your post is just lame sarcasm.
Great way to introduce yourself to the forum. By the way.
See, that is useful sarcasm.

bleeding_edge said:
i guess what im hoping for is more nazi admin type behaviour or at least more flaming from the more senior members of the community, Im sure this is a problem all over these forums but it would be good if less crap was posted in the hermes sections.
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Here's the problem.. How to deal with n00bs that don't know how to read:
1) Lock the thread.
* If you lock the thread, we'll simply get duplicated posts from the same person asking (obviously), "Why did you lock my post about the keyboard issue?!? I *still* can't get the keyboard to work right!"
2) Delete the posts/threads
* If you delete it, you'll get the same duplicated reaction as above. Plus, the requisite *****ing about how they feel hard-done-to because they were singled out! And, besides.. They were just helping others who had the same keyboard issue as them; after all, it's not posted anywhere else on the site!
3) Flame the crap out of them
* Humiliation works. If you humiliate people into submission, prior to posting on the forums, a to-be-useful member of this site will spend the time and read the collected knowledge that is to be found on here. Read and show any of us that you've even *tried* to understand, and you'll get a nice, helpful answer. Post stupidity, you'll get attacked. It's pretty easy.

Now I know who to direct my BRICKED-ANTI-PERSONEL-DEVICE when the time comes.

LegolasTheElf said:
...Read and show any of us that you've even *tried* to understand, and you'll get a nice, helpful answer.
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ROFLMFAO

I can agree with "bleeding_edge" to a certain extent.
Posts that resemble something like "Installing now", "Man, I just installed {insert 1-version-older rom here}", and my fav "Downloading now 20% done" (I just wish they would post every time the percent went up, that would really keep me better informed).
On the other hand today is April 3rd and "bleeding_edge" joined in April of 2007... so to be a member for 2 days and suggest that everyone be meaner to members from now on probably wont get you any friends here.
I think that everyone who makes post like the examples above should simply be shot, in the face.
Actually I think that they don't intend on flooding a thread, its just their excitement showing through. So perhaps if you are someone who makes posts like the ones I have above, and your reading this post, you could simply try to keep your posts relevant/on topic.
Later, Lew

i agree with the admin that it cant really be controlled without backlash,
the only thing that comes to mind is revoking posting rights from those who consistenly post unconstructive unhelpful crap. i could easily name 50 people who post in this section with nothing of use to anyone.
every thread contains crap its just here theres alot higher ratio of useless wow look at my post count banter in comparison to normal dev forums.
or pehaps the idea of not allowing people to post anything within the first month period of creating an account.
although my account in new and fresh i have been reading this board for a while, thus the cause for my outrageous noob style rant
i appologise to any long standing members this has offended i just feel its borderline out of control and something really should be said/done

closed this thread, very good points, but made a new thread and its a sticky...

Wtf: Black & White!!

It sucks that we have to go to 3 or 4 differnet sites now to get the most out of our Hermes! Black is now on win4 and others are taking thier ROM's other places. We are ruining what used to be great about having a forum, and that was having a choice.
Remember when you waited for Kypher's WXL2.0? were you like me and checked every day til it came out?
And then LSVW came out. Then Black! and wow Black1.2, and Black2.0!
Are we going to let Noobs take that feeling from us?! Screw the noobs...let them read and learn like the rest of us. I read through 1000 post threads and so should they! Its time for some tough love, discipline and ignoring them will help them grow.
JJ come back! Kypher; where are you? Make this the one stop cooking shop!

All you have to do to keep everything at THIS forum is not go to the new ones. Don't give their new roms any word of mouth etc. If they see no one gives a darn about their "new home" they will come back. It's that simple...

Shadowmite said:
All you have to do to keep everything at THIS forum is not go to the new ones. Don't give their new roms any word of mouth etc. If they see no one gives a darn about their "new home" they will come back. It's that simple...
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With all due respect, based on discussions with some of the departed (voluntary and involuntary - LOL), it is not really about people giving a darn. It is more about the user experience on the board. While I appreciate what you are saying, I think that your statement VASTLY oversimplifies the reasons they left. While some may have been motivated by money, status, ego-stroking or whatever, for others it was simply about a more expertly focused site. I am sure that all communities would value your memebership.

well for some of us this is what we do because we love it and dont mind keeping up with the 1000 posts like you said. i know i like to fill my head with as much knowledge as i can so i'll keep on reading and learning

Shadowmite said:
All you have to do to keep everything at THIS forum is not go to the new ones. Don't give their new roms any word of mouth etc. If they see no one gives a darn about their "new home" they will come back. It's that simple...
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Could not agree more!!! This is why a parted with Black 3.01 and future Black roms unless the topic and rom is posted here on XDA.... Same goes for all future cookers. I wont sign up like i did for that buggy iPhone dialer on some Chinese website i could not even understand the text or the few english words and a day later my in box was full of junkmail, i believe now he is cooking a white rom and it will be posted on another forum... My point is the same, these guys are getting over them selfs and are forgetting their roots on XDA.

Sorry to dissagree some of yours opininions. I read the wiki, search the entire forum but nothing comming up
1/ Everyone here used to be a noob once.
2/ The open forum is always better than restricted forum, because the more ideals the better modifiers. Sometimes, it's quite annoyed; but, hey, life is not perfect. Also, there are too many people flame noobs by using abusive vocabularies. Why don't ppl just point out the directions, or simple keep their silent and let the moderators do their jobs?
3/ Those ppl whose posts just to say "tks, I'm downloading now", "wow, that's great" ... into thread of new ROM should be banned for at least 3 days. I saw many senior members do this also!!! Ppl can always show their appreciate to chefs by cliking on the Donation Button.
Hence, my solutions is:
a/ Moderators should do some more. If this forum is lack of janitors, I'm volunteer to be one.
b/ Ppl please limit your abusive languages and try to play nice to each others.
Regards.

I was going to post a similiar topic. It is sad that the XDA we loved is not going to be here anymore..at least not with the same variety we had before. I do not have the time to read 4 message boards just to find the best ROM.
I hope LVSW and CUSTEL and XDALive (if it ever comes back to life) remain here on XDA since they are the best ROMs anyway. We need the Pofs' Olipro's, Tadzio etc......hope we dont loose anyone else.

Nghiem said:
Sorry to dissagree some of yours opininions. I read the wiki, search the entire forum but nothing comming up
1/ Everyone here used to be a noob once.
2/ The open forum is always better than restricted forum, because the more ideals the better modifiers. Sometimes, it's quite annoyed; but, hey, life is not perfect. Also, there are too many people flame noobs by using abusive vocabularies. Why don't ppl just point out the directions, or simple keep their silent and let the moderators do their jobs?
3/ Those ppl whose posts just to say "tks, I'm downloading now", "wow, that's great" ... into thread of new ROM should be banned for at least 3 days. I saw many senior members do this also!!! Ppl can always show their appreciate to chefs by cliking on the Donation Button.
Hence, my solutions is:
a/ Moderators should do some more. If this forum is lack of janitors, I'm volunteer to be one.
b/ Ppl please limit your abusive languages and try to play nice to each others.
Regards.
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1. Noobs still need to read and search. We often see noob threads that end when a link to a previous thread points in the right direction. Do you really think we just had that link saved in a Favorite...NO...someone searched for it.
2. I agree the open forums are great. But if you dont like foul langauge too bad! I dont use it often or ever that I can recall, but Grow up, it is not like you never heard a bad word before...did feelings get hurt...too bad man up.
3. I agree 100%

Well it is sad what things have come down to, but we still have some awesome chefs here and experts that blow my mind away. Lets not lose love for them. I too am frustrated and irritated with all these noob posts that flood entire forum. And the hermes forum has a horrible rep now. I for one wanna be a help to this forum. Im on this forum for about 7 hours a day. And i would love to volunteer to take care of this forum. Just anything to do my part in helping all the mods here.

I am frustrated with the word "noob"... its as bad as "sku" was during the release of all of the gaming consoles. I've been lurking here for a while. I've used the search function and i think it completely sucks. I did a search for "video dialer" earlier and the first result was the black 3.0.1 thread... all 103 or so pages of it. That was typical for the next 20 results. You can't hate on every person that creates a seemingly useless thread. If you want to help reduce the thread counts, then improve the search results. There's no reason not to help a new person... if this was the same logic that went with creating ROMS, think how crappy they would be. If a chef yelled "GOOGLE!" everytime they were looking for a quicker/better/faster way of doing something with their soon-to-be-released ROM, we'd never get any new ROMS. I guess my point is this, i know it sucks to have 40 new threads each day when i visit this site. But, i dont go jumping on the people that posted them, rather i think the responsiblity lies more on the shoulders of the moderators (no offense guys/girls, but I've done a lot of posting to various forums, even moderated one or two in my day, and that's just where i stand)... If you want to help eliminate useless posts, clean up the wiki and implement a better search feature. (and yes, using google to search within this domain helps... but not all new people know that).
sorry for the rant.

Like some of the other posters here, I would gladly offer moderation services to this forum. I agree that good moderation is the key to keeping XDA-DEVELOPERS vital and flourishing. Would be happy to help encourage the good and thwart the bad.

The F Word
forum (n.) a public meeting or assembly for open discussion
forum (n.) a public facility to meet for open discussion
forum (n.) a place of assembly for the people in ancient Greece
Bottom line, get over it!!
Noob, Expert, Chef, Senior, whatever.... It's a place for everyone to discuss everything and anything about a related topic. That's how we get along in this crazy world by helping others, sharing knowledge, and communicating...
If you want an experts only club then go create one and make it a specialised chat room with a private login.
*rant over*

allready got 3 actually

Midget_1990 said:
allready got 3 actually
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Lol... Shows how much the mods care about this topic.

almost kinda like the topic says, black & white..
The whole issue here is a little more complex and not really a black and white issue.. This isnt the first time chefs have the left the boards for other things, and we always pick up new chefs.. and alot of the old school chefs are still here and plan to stay, the same chefs that helped create the roms you guys so highly speak of. One of them will be releasing his own rom soon. And there might be a chef leaving this board to avoid being banned due to abusive behavior..

shogunmark said:
The whole issue here is a little more complex and not really a black and white issue.. This isnt the first time chefs have the left the boards for other things, and we always pick up new chefs.. and alot of the old school chefs are still here and plan to stay, the same chefs that helped create the roms you guys so highly speak of. One of them will be releasing his own rom soon. And there might be a chef leaving this board to avoid being banned due to abusive behavior..
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Off topic, but I gotta say it ... I get a chuckle every time I see that damn monkey with a gun.

weinson said:
Off topic, but I gotta say it ... I get a chuckle every time I see that damn monkey with a gun.
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maybe if i ever cook a rom again it will make a nice splash screen, lol

shogunmark said:
maybe if i ever cook a rom again it will make a nice splash screen, lol
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In these trying times he'd make a rather suitable XDA mascot.

shogunmark said:
The whole issue here is a little more complex and not really a black and white issue.. This isnt the first time chefs have the left the boards for other things, and we always pick up new chefs.. and alot of the old school chefs are still here and plan to stay, the same chefs that helped create the roms you guys so highly speak of. One of them will be releasing his own rom soon. And there might be a chef leaving this board to avoid being banned due to abusive behavior..
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Surely you must agree that dropping developers and gaining new ones is a little erratic? It just ads to the confusion where people install a ROM from this forum, then have to go else where for maintenance. I think a lot of these problems could have been solved if the developers were given their own sub-forum (based on popularity) and they were made moderators of their forum. That's it. They would then be responsible for the maintenance and the progressive state of their section. Right now the closest thing we have is a thread, which ends up in a few hundred replies, majority of which is total crap.

MrSmith22 said:
Surely you must agree that dropping developers and gaining new ones is a little erratic? It just ads to the confusion where people install a ROM from this forum, then have to go else where for maintenance. I think a lot of these problems could have been solved if the developers were given their own sub-forum (based on popularity) and they were made moderators of their forum. That's it. They would then be responsible for the maintenance and the progressive state of their section. Right now the closest thing we have is a thread, which ends up in a few hundred replies, majority of which is total crap.
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MrSmith - I think that is an excellent suggestion/observation - fwiw

Umm... Why is everyone here an A Hole?

It's like a cancer. One person is rude and cruel so it rubs off until it's so unhealthy everyone lashes out at everyone. I could care less how many "noobs" ask questions. Answer it if you like or else ignore it. You people need some serious help!
Waiting to get banned and flamed!?!

because all these stupid n00bs came from hofo thinking that this was a download WM6 only place and not a R&D type forum... the whole point of xda DEVELOPERS is to program code and other wise develope things for our PDA not to come here and ask "how come my symbols are all messed up after i flashed this rom" or how "come my hermes has a tri-colored screen and thats it" So we get to the point of hating every stupid question that it asked because its asked 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 times over and over since no one can use google or the search button/....

Somebody please delete this thread. It is useless and annoying.

its really not a worthless topic...but perhaps it is here.
bottom line is there really is NO excuse ever to be an a-hole.
I could give you 5 sure fire ways to deal with the 'problem' straight-up.....
from the moderators standpoint...and inner-forum standpoint besides the childish ways it was dealt with by chefs and associates....
although its gotten better.

Check this forum in a bit
and I'll show you how to instill forum control.
and ''a-holes'' (authors quote!)....don't say, 'duh...we shouldn't have to do that'
if someone feels so strongly to call new members 's '****in noob...search the f......' thread''...then you have the strength to implement these measures.
it'l be up in an hour or so..got to get home

austinsnyc said:
because all these stupid n00bs came from hofo thinking that this was a download WM6 only place and not a R&D type forum... the whole point of xda DEVELOPERS is to program code and other wise develope things for our PDA not to come here and ask "how come my symbols are all messed up after i flashed this rom" or how "come my hermes has a tri-colored screen and thats it" So we get to the point of hating every stupid question that it asked because its asked 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 times over and over since no one can use google or the search button/....
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That pretty much says it all.....

A-hole???
If you're referring to austinsync or myself as being assholes, shame on you!
Speaking for myself, since 2005, I've had 856 posts, the majority of them helpful. (actually have a sticky, thank you very much)
I'm not known to curse a person but I will attempt to lead them to their destination.
People here have taught me how to fish and I try to share that knowledge.
If you insist on us giving you the fish because you're too lazy so be it... but don't call me an asshole.

Dr Puttingham said:
If you're referring to austinsync or myself as being assholes, shame on you!
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Ya....I never said any specific names, in fact I'm not sure where you got that idea, unless you are just feeling guilty. My remark was just a general feel for what seems like the whole Hermes forum.

me?
i'm quoting the word from the title post....don't know who he's referring to.

Dr Puttingham said:
If you're referring to austinsync or myself as being assholes, shame on you!
Speaking for myself, since 2005, I've had 856 posts, the majority of them helpful. (actually have a sticky, thank you very much)
I'm not known to curse a person but I will attempt to lead them to their destination.
People here have taught me how to fish and I try to share that knowledge.
If you insist on us giving you the fish because you're too lazy so be it... but don't call me an asshole.
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there are alot of members here that treat noobs unfairly sometimes, this site is a little hard to navigate and some people like myself get a new device and are like ok what can i do to it right this second, dont take the time mess it up and so on and so forth. imo some people think a little to highly of themselves and think they have the right to say what should be posted. now there are alot of great people here but there are some that are not so great. this is a developers site not a noob site and i think the best way to prevent this is to redirect noobs to other forums like http://www.htcwizardweb.net/node/103
but they are more device specific so dr puttingham or other great members of this site dont sweet it if someone states that there are some aholes on this site because its not toward yourselves. but i dont think this is the place to post this and dont think someone with a post score of less than 50 should address an issue of this nature. i have been a member for awhile and dont post alot as of yet because i am still a noob and i think to many people start threads that shouldnt be started. if you have a question read the wiki and navigate the threads using google dont start new threads unless your absolutly positive it hasnt been answered. read read read hours and hours read the wiki dont start new threads with noob questions this is not a noob site this is not a download site this is a developer site and we should be greatfull that they dont descriminate new comers. well thats my 2 cents

I think the issue is many people are used to getting things their way right away and don't want to take the time to do some searches and read a few threads before asking stupid ass questions.
I'm a newbie and sometimes I think people here act like they have their ass hairs plucked every morning before they get up. Other times I see people asking questions that are pretty stupid and easily answered. So it goes both ways.
Some here are overly anti-noob and some noobs are overly stupid.

No different
Honestly, this forum or the behavior you are talking about is nothing new or different than many of the other forums I have been part of. When the community supports itself there is a tendancy to appreciate those who help themselves and contribute to the betterment of the comunity overall. Those that detract from the community either by their actions or attitudes are unappreciated. How people show this appreciation or lack of is a matter of personal style. If some people are harsher than others it is just the way it is. If you plan on getting free support for a free product that you can't otherwise produce for yourself there is a certain expectation of self reliance. If you are offended by someone telling you to go read the F*ing wiki you need to probably grow an extra layer of skin or two.
If people who don't have the answers demonstrated and communicated what steps they have taken to find the answer on their own and actually used the google or advanced search features people would probably respond differently.
One big help on the advanced search page is to change the search from threads to posts. It really helps narrow down the exact area in the threads your search terms are and you can go back a few posts rather than try to wade your way through 55+ pages of posts.
I am a self professed "noob". But that said I have, without asking a single question on the forums, flashed several blacks, several custel, and vp3Gs LVSW ROMs, upgraded my radio, downgraded to unlock, upgraded to 1.41 and just this evening dropped it back down to 1.40 (which actually did wonders for my phone).
It is a little difficult to find all the information you need. It isn't spoon fed. But it isn't all that hard either. Between the guides my MrVanx, the wiki and the various search tools provided you should be able to peice together anything.
If everyone follows this methodology the problem would probably take care of itself with minimal effort from the moderators and you would see a lot more decorum in the forums. Until then all threads like this do are spark useless debate that has nothing to do with the hermes and clog up an already bloated forum.
Just my 2 cents. I appreciate all of the members of this community - even the A Holes.
thank you for listening.
Caturix

Did I mention I like beer?

A few day back there was a A - Hole noob here who wanted wm6 for Sony Ericsson M600. It was his first post !!!
You have to behave like an A Hole with A Hole types.

TooSharp said:
It's like a cancer. One person is rude and cruel so it rubs off until it's so unhealthy everyone lashes out at everyone. I could care less how many "noobs" ask questions. Answer it if you like or else ignore it. You people need some serious help!
Waiting to get banned and flamed!?!
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Everyone here is not an a-hole as you so liberally claim.
Why complicate simple matters? You signed up voluntarily and you can leave anytime if you don't like it here.
Don't go around calling "everyone" an a-hole just because you feel like it. Geez.

caturix said:
It is a little difficult to find all the information you need. It isn't spoon fed. But it isn't all that hard either. Between the guides my MrVanx, the wiki and the various search tools provided you should be able to peice together anything.
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SPOT ON analysis. This is precisely what a developer does... piece things together... work away at it... figure it out. And that's why they tend to get hot under the collar when others expect to be spoon fed. This this may come across a being an 'a-hole' to some when in fact they're just demanding a little appreciation for what they do.
If everyone follows this methodology the problem would probably take care of itself with minimal effort from the moderators and you would see a lot more decorum in the forums. Until then all threads like this do are spark useless debate that has nothing to do with the hermes and clog up an already bloated forum.
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Again, excellent.

TooSharp said:
It's like a cancer. One person is rude and cruel so it rubs off until it's so unhealthy everyone lashes out at everyone. I could care less how many "noobs" ask questions. Answer it if you like or else ignore it. You people need some serious help!
Waiting to get banned and flamed!?!
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well let me step up to the plate and be the A-hole here..
First if you bothered to search you will find that this topic has been talked about many times.. There is even a decent topic under the "About XDA-Developers" sub-fora... This doesnt exactly belong in a WM6 forum.. Posting this only adds to the problem.. instead of complaining about the problem, you need to ask yourself "what have i done to improve the situation?"
Alot of people blame poor moderation, but come on people, most of us are grown up's.. Do you really need babysitters? Why not take a proactive approach to help the situation instead of complaining and make it worse.
So, lets all play nice and make this a happier place..

A complaint about this section of XDA-DEVS. (Development and Hacking)

quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.

It saddens me
I was a bit disappointed hearing this from a marvelous developer such as you are but I believe you are not evil because you have tried your best to bring us the best out of our devices
Please do reconsider...

I hear what you're saying, mate. I lurked around this place for over six months before making my first post, just reading up and learning. People don't want to read anymore...they think that this place is the instant free tech support center.

djboo, I don't agree! Most of the threads in D&H subforum are developer or constructive threads. This is not an easy thing to accomplish, and I think it shows the quality of the forum. You can't disable access to "noobs", developers make their stuff for everyone, not just other developers or experienced people! I'm glad if other people like something I make.

Partially agree...
djboo said:
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
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I partially second that, although I think that membership seniority based on number of posts isn't the best practice if to implement what you proposed. As I, for example, don't post a lot but read the forum for almost 2 years, and have dev. background (and I guess there a lot of others like that), there are some that post a lot of questions and/or comments that are not that dev. inclined or do not have the knowledge (yet?).
I do see your point here, and me too stopped following the TF3D thread after tons of non development related issues. Maybe putting Dev/Hack as read-only and people would have to ask a mod / admin for posting rights on it? And then giving full access to the Q&A thread / new section? So devs. could enjoy it more, general community could still get the latest (downloading newer version from Dev/Hack, etc.) and get questions answered in an orderly fashion... BUT, what with those nice little apps people write and post here from time to time, that come from someone that is not THAT involved in the community? They'd simply go elsewhere, and I guess this IS the most valuable asset the community have. With all due respects to the "regulars", I think those that pass by once in a while and contribute are
invaluable too. Guess it's the price to pay for innovation, having to sort through the non-sense to find the gems.
In the end, I think the problem here are the filters we use. Maybe we just need to find a better way to organize the data here, so it's easier to follow... What I do hope, is that whatever is done, doesn't change the essence of this great oasis...

I kinda agree with ur second part but i'm sure someone would have told the mods if it was a "dangerous app", rite?

I am a noob
Ok, I understand quite well what you are saying. Being a noob myself, i am learning as much as i can, slowly but I hope surely.
I try to read thoroughfully each thread that I have interest in.
The only regret I have is the search engine. For example, I'm still searching for a thread where it explains how to modify spb mobile shell files to have PI8 as the default calendar. I know the intel is there somewhere, but I'm having a hard time to find the right post/thread.
So maybe one of the possibilities would be to enhance a little the search engine or the way results are shown => enlighten the searched words...
Please reconsider, don't be to hard on the noobs, I think we aren't so bad, some of us want to learn.
And thank you very much for your patience, talent and ideas.

I do agree too that there is too much "I like that.... whats it for?" when a lot of the time the developers do put the information in their posts. BUT..... sometimes these STUPID, RANDOM comments do contribute by putting an idea out there to be expanded on. Sometimes they provide needed feedback and ideas.
If you restrict access to these areas then you may as well shut down the site.
This is a forum and as such there will ALWAYS be those annoying clueless posts but you have to remember that you were once there yourself...
You have to make allowances for those members who DON'T speak english very well as they may be very tech savy but just have difficulty putting their ideas down in English. They may actually give something back..
And thats my 2 cents

hi all
in fact there was a section missing , here , for asking
seems they are doing something very soon , reading the sticky thread
Here
and so the D&H will come back to be free for real dev

djboo perhaps you are a little hasty in this thread and I agree with some of what you say, however, alot of ppl respect everything you and other developers give us immensely! without ppl like yourself alot of us would never use Windows Mobile devices, instead following the masses of other "mind washed" CrApple iphone uses, anyway please don't stop sharing just because a few mindless teenagers didn't get enough Oxygen at birth!

people make their own choices. if you post something which might trigger a brick and someone uses it you can blame him for either trying something without investigating first or for just being plain stupid (depending on the circumstances).
the fact that this section is a target for terrorist idiots action isn't different from any other internet or real forum in the world. people tend to go wherever's warmer and cuddle there.. and try to suck every little ounce of good they can find in that place.
that's why you can find thousands of stupid posts and questions instead having a clear, professional section. not using search, not being able to read rules before posting.. that's international.
as for restricting... I must disagree to the proposal. it would require more work from the dev to find the members he'd like to share this with instead of just posting his work. and being a senior member on this forum means NOTHING considering it depends on the number of posts you have rather on how long you've been around or how much you have contributed to this community.
but what i do suggest is, that a member will have to be at least X months old in this forum to post. this will make people use search and learn before they come up with stupid questions.
cheers.

As a link above has p[pointed out, there is a new forum coming for questions. If you really have a problem with some of this noob questions, PM a mod/report the post.
Also, if you want to post a thread as an announcement, rather than a questions/answers thread, PM a mod to get it locked.
If you don't let new members post, they will never find anything out.
One final thing: you yourself have posted this in an area in which it doesn't belong. It has nothing to do with Development or Hacking, it's about what happens in this forum. As such, I'm going to move the thread to the "About xda-devs" section.

Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave

i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.

djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?

DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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Click to collapse
that man said it better than i ever could.

l3v5y said:
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont want closed developing. i want developing. currently the main thread in question is more like doing lines for teacher. once a day, log in, "HTC-CA drivers disable shutdown, TF3D uses those drivers. use manilatoggle to disable TF3D before you power down" x10

djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
djboo... I understand where you are coming from, but I also do not totally agree with your comments. Although I may be a noob, I do have a lot ov experiance in computing. I do not have the time to develop of backwords engineer apps. I wish I did. I would enjoy doing it. I agree with you that the thread owner should be able to delete posts that are off topic, but I think the thread owner should also move a question with an answer to the first page if they see multiple posts. This would make it easier to find some of the common answers. I agree that users should use the search, but it does not always return what you are looking for. I have made a post and been berated for not using the search (when in fact I had). I truly enjoy the work you and the rest of the developers are doing. Without you guys, my phone would be quite boring, but because of the work done on this site, I am quite happy with my phone and how it operates. I have friends that think I am a god because I help them with thier phone, but I would not be able to do half of what I do if it were not for the work done here. I hope you go back to work on Manilla3D. We noobs need the knowledge you provide. As for off topic posts such as the nes on the Manilla3D thread, a lot of them go on due to people endulging these people by answering thier post or flaming them. I have seen senior members do this and all it does is fuel a lot of these guys. Ignore them! Geez, I have had my ligidimate questions ignored, why not ignore the non-ligitimate ones? Anyway, I will get off my soap box. I appreciate everthing all of you developers do and I hope one day I will have the time to contribute to the development community. Take care.

It is possible to set up a "thread owner" or thread based permission system but it would take some work and more importantly a Vbulletin developer to iron out the issues that may come up.
I have tried it on one other site but it was a little difficult. Of course I think a more productive idea is to have developer groups. Vbulletin has a group system built in as of 3.7 and it allows for comments and such. In 3.8 it will allow groups to have their own message boards. With a little help you can set up 3.7 to also have message boards controlled by the owner of the group.

DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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djboo said:
that man said it better than i ever could.
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Click to collapse
Yup that's why it's in my signature under XDA Mantra.

Rude senior members!!

I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy

Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy

tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.

I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V

vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.

Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.

Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.

tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces

I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal

I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha

sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!

tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal

tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.

Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.

poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.

Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.

poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.

wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kudos to you sir

I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]