Related
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of view that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
I recently looked at a thread where someone asked a question that was answered somewhere else. Three members jumped on the bandwagon to flame to poor sod. Another member jumped in to defend the fact that people should be free to ask questions.
In the end, there were 12 replies to the question that, in that thread, was never actually answered.
12 posts just to discuss the relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered.
Most forums I have been a member of have some very strict views on staying on topic. This reduces the flaming which seems to do more 'cluttering' damage that questions that have been already answered.
So if I have a question, I will STF only to find 42,000 topics on the same thing that don't actually answer anything, but discuss the "relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered".
If the members, who should know better, stayed on topic then people would be able to readily identify the good threads more easily and not feel it nessesary to ask again... and again... and again.
So... Instead of flaming n00b questions that have allegedly been answered before, why don't the members of this forum look in the mirror and...
STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Note that I have posted this where I think this kind of discussion belongs... (i.e. not in any of the threads that actually deal with meaningfull discussions about phones).
Let the flames begin...
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
BaggyG said:
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of few that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
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STFU noob.
ok, I jest... but seriously, it did reach breaking point and something had to give... fortunately it's unwinding itself now.
Also to be fair to long time members though, every time a new OS version is out, the place is flooded with n00bs that usually don't even take the time to look at the threads presend on the same damn page.
It's beyond lazy, it's just ignorant to expect people to wipe their arse for them even if the toilet roll is right there in front of them.
Sometimes help is warranted and they get flamed, but when upgrading these expensive devices, they should take the time to understand more about it
Perhaps we should have an aptitude test before allowing access to the forums hehe.
shogunmark said:
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
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Gee... Hermes forum? How'd ya guess
I tried STF for a thread on this, but couldn't decide what to search on: n00b? Flame? Agro? Dummy spit? Ignorant?... So many choices
But okay... I've had my say so I'll pull my head in and get back to my life.
By the way... Great forum and wiki. Very helpful and informative.
Baggy
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
While I think it's important to encourage all members (yes I've seen a few senior members asking things that have been previously discussed in the same thread) I think the whole attitude about it is wrong. There's really no need to get all pissy about it, and much less calling people "noob". Really someone that goes off on a noob rant can't have much of a life in my opinion. We are all busy -some more then others- and we really don't want to waste time answering redundant questions, but isn't going off on someone and calling them a noob an even worst usage of our valuable time? besides..... who really gives a rats ass about getting called a noob.
In closing, if you feel a noob is bothering you, ignore him and he might eventually get the point, or behave like a human beign and help the guy out. However, as BaggyG says don't turn the damn thread into a name calling fiasko. One 20 word post asking a question is not as irritating as a 500 word essay on the stupidness of noobs.
GAMBIT999 said:
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
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since i dont frequent the prophet forum's and im not sure who our active mod(s) are for prophet, if you would let me know what threads need to be moderated i will be more than happy to flex my muscle in there.
and actually on that note....
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
shogunmark said:
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
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Just wondering if it would be possible to put an announcement or sticky on each forum identifying the mods for that particular forum.
Just a though...
Baggy
Damn. I saw the title and thought "Man, that'd be fun!" and everyone in here is complaining about it? (joking).
Seriously though it is a problem. But everyone here can do something about stopping it. I mean, if you know there is a solution to the question they asked and it's somewhere else in the forums, give them a link and tell them how to find these answers. If you don't know exactly where it is, tell them what forum to search. At the very least, say nothing. When people only read the last page of a thread it is very annoying but those are best ignored. There is absolutely no need to publicly flame someone and waste even more space on a thread.
I'm currently working on a bug tracking system for new roms so hopefully that will reduce a lot of these kind of questions by keeping answers with the questions and moderators and chef's being able to easily delete repeated posts.
It's just a bit of common courtesy which is as sadly lacking as common sense at the moment unfortunately.
Maz
http://maz.net.au/
one of the other things is the sheer VOLUME of replies, in the Hermes section, there are over 250 replies in a couple of threads! not meaning to sound lazy, but that is a hell of a lot!!!
of corse i'm reading them and reading repeat after repeat of questions that are the same.
Its great when the #1 topic poster goes through the posts and copies soloutions to problems and presents it in the 1st post!
hmm think thats covered just about everything on my mind
*gets flamethrower out*
Flamin' time =D
kiddin'
Y'all have to admit. Some of the "senior" members here have this god complex.
Once they manage to have their devices run unofficial stuff - even if it isn't their own work, and they were just following simple instructions, which don't really take much work once you get down to it - they think it gives them every right to go Bastard Operator From Hell to just about anyone else.
I guess it's pretty normal for unofficial channels, innit - I see the same kind of folks in emulation and driver forums. Not to mention linux and hardware boards. But some of the "ascended" here ought to remember that they didn't start as gods, and may not really be that much of a "god" after all.
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
No, dozen responses that don't answer the question are not the solution, but hey everyone needs to went somehow.
levenum said:
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
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I agree. There's WAAAAYY too much "how do I. . ." posts in the forums when all the information is already there for READING. More stickys at the top of the forums won't solve the problem, because the ones that are there WITH the information are not being read by the noobs even now.
It's really sad for me to see the direction that this board has taken in the past year. When I first registered, it was an AWESOME site with LOTS of users developing useful tools and apps to make these devices even better . . . a place to share ideas and to try out the cooked ROMs.
Then, we had an influx of new users about 6 months ago that simply couldn't -- or WOULDN'T -- search for answers before posting. Now, the board is so bloated with those useless posts/threads that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
While I still come here daily to check the General section and the Wizard section, I don't do much posting and only read the threads of general interest to me. I'll help where I can on answering questions -- but only if they haven't already been asked a gazillion times before. I still look for the tools and apps from the developers here to keep tweaking my phone to get the absolute MOST out of it, and I've flashed more ROMs from this site than Quaker's got oats. -- and all without asking "how do I. . ." or "I've bricked my phone. . . " because I READ THE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!!!
It's really that simple. All you have to do is READ and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS -- step by step. Don't skip a step or leave anything out, and it works!!!
that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
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As much as I see your point, I have only 2 words to say. "Vicious Cycle".
I'm also a noob but i dont care because i know my options, first do a search ( which by the way is pratically unusable, but not only here all foruns have this problem), but in a community so big it´s comprehensive cause sometimes the answer to the problem is two threads bellow or in the next page, but no let´s open another thread asking the same thing, and i know that such attitude will lead to saturation of the older members.
The answer is simple if someone is in the mood answer if not leave it, until the users realize their options to search for things this will never end.
I'm glad to be here because above all it's a learning place for the ones who enjoy this platform and the ones who just like to know about varied stuff.
Cheers and have a nice weekend
yes thanks everyone for all thr help and advice. Keep it up!
Peace out
Registration fees
To alleviate the amount of worthless posts and to give something back to those that dedicate so much time and effort to this forum (rom cookers, admins and mods) why dont we add a registration fee to this forum?
Just a thought, but I would happily pay an annual fee of 20 eur / 15 GBP for this forum.
Searching
I think that quite a lot of the problem is with how difficult it is to get answers out of the forum search facility if you're not used to it.
Could it be possible to add a dumb-ass version that's the default?
There have been no end of times in the past when i've been searching for info on upgrading and I have to trawl through hundreds of irrelevant posts (most of them telling people to go to other posts that don't have the right info on them).
Also, back in the day there was a lot more info on the wiki section relating to the upgrading/modding etc but now (understandably given the number of devices available) the information only seems to be in the forums.
I like the idea of having a sticky in each thread listing useful articles on common topics. I bet no one will bother to read them though.
I still think my library illustration I gave over at TC stills says it best.
We all know the library is full of info on so many things you could want to know. And we all know what's expected of us in a library; go find the book on the subject. If you have trouble finding the answer, then ask your question.
I think where so many go wrong is thinking that they can just walk in to the library and start asking questions from whoever just happens to be there, rather than first trying to find the answer for themselves in the variety of books available.
And what's wrong with someone who at first was a noob - asking repeated questions - and then learning what's expected of them, and then expecting the same from others? You got told to be quiet in the library, at first you were offended, and then began to realize the benefit, and then inturn expect the same from others.
I really don't expect people to figure it out. Call me a pessimist or call me a realist.
Oh, by-the-way, have you noticed that this kind of topic always results in long, drawn-out posts?
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
It saddens me
I was a bit disappointed hearing this from a marvelous developer such as you are but I believe you are not evil because you have tried your best to bring us the best out of our devices
Please do reconsider...
I hear what you're saying, mate. I lurked around this place for over six months before making my first post, just reading up and learning. People don't want to read anymore...they think that this place is the instant free tech support center.
djboo, I don't agree! Most of the threads in D&H subforum are developer or constructive threads. This is not an easy thing to accomplish, and I think it shows the quality of the forum. You can't disable access to "noobs", developers make their stuff for everyone, not just other developers or experienced people! I'm glad if other people like something I make.
Partially agree...
djboo said:
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
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I partially second that, although I think that membership seniority based on number of posts isn't the best practice if to implement what you proposed. As I, for example, don't post a lot but read the forum for almost 2 years, and have dev. background (and I guess there a lot of others like that), there are some that post a lot of questions and/or comments that are not that dev. inclined or do not have the knowledge (yet?).
I do see your point here, and me too stopped following the TF3D thread after tons of non development related issues. Maybe putting Dev/Hack as read-only and people would have to ask a mod / admin for posting rights on it? And then giving full access to the Q&A thread / new section? So devs. could enjoy it more, general community could still get the latest (downloading newer version from Dev/Hack, etc.) and get questions answered in an orderly fashion... BUT, what with those nice little apps people write and post here from time to time, that come from someone that is not THAT involved in the community? They'd simply go elsewhere, and I guess this IS the most valuable asset the community have. With all due respects to the "regulars", I think those that pass by once in a while and contribute are
invaluable too. Guess it's the price to pay for innovation, having to sort through the non-sense to find the gems.
In the end, I think the problem here are the filters we use. Maybe we just need to find a better way to organize the data here, so it's easier to follow... What I do hope, is that whatever is done, doesn't change the essence of this great oasis...
I kinda agree with ur second part but i'm sure someone would have told the mods if it was a "dangerous app", rite?
I am a noob
Ok, I understand quite well what you are saying. Being a noob myself, i am learning as much as i can, slowly but I hope surely.
I try to read thoroughfully each thread that I have interest in.
The only regret I have is the search engine. For example, I'm still searching for a thread where it explains how to modify spb mobile shell files to have PI8 as the default calendar. I know the intel is there somewhere, but I'm having a hard time to find the right post/thread.
So maybe one of the possibilities would be to enhance a little the search engine or the way results are shown => enlighten the searched words...
Please reconsider, don't be to hard on the noobs, I think we aren't so bad, some of us want to learn.
And thank you very much for your patience, talent and ideas.
I do agree too that there is too much "I like that.... whats it for?" when a lot of the time the developers do put the information in their posts. BUT..... sometimes these STUPID, RANDOM comments do contribute by putting an idea out there to be expanded on. Sometimes they provide needed feedback and ideas.
If you restrict access to these areas then you may as well shut down the site.
This is a forum and as such there will ALWAYS be those annoying clueless posts but you have to remember that you were once there yourself...
You have to make allowances for those members who DON'T speak english very well as they may be very tech savy but just have difficulty putting their ideas down in English. They may actually give something back..
And thats my 2 cents
hi all
in fact there was a section missing , here , for asking
seems they are doing something very soon , reading the sticky thread
Here
and so the D&H will come back to be free for real dev
djboo perhaps you are a little hasty in this thread and I agree with some of what you say, however, alot of ppl respect everything you and other developers give us immensely! without ppl like yourself alot of us would never use Windows Mobile devices, instead following the masses of other "mind washed" CrApple iphone uses, anyway please don't stop sharing just because a few mindless teenagers didn't get enough Oxygen at birth!
people make their own choices. if you post something which might trigger a brick and someone uses it you can blame him for either trying something without investigating first or for just being plain stupid (depending on the circumstances).
the fact that this section is a target for terrorist idiots action isn't different from any other internet or real forum in the world. people tend to go wherever's warmer and cuddle there.. and try to suck every little ounce of good they can find in that place.
that's why you can find thousands of stupid posts and questions instead having a clear, professional section. not using search, not being able to read rules before posting.. that's international.
as for restricting... I must disagree to the proposal. it would require more work from the dev to find the members he'd like to share this with instead of just posting his work. and being a senior member on this forum means NOTHING considering it depends on the number of posts you have rather on how long you've been around or how much you have contributed to this community.
but what i do suggest is, that a member will have to be at least X months old in this forum to post. this will make people use search and learn before they come up with stupid questions.
cheers.
As a link above has p[pointed out, there is a new forum coming for questions. If you really have a problem with some of this noob questions, PM a mod/report the post.
Also, if you want to post a thread as an announcement, rather than a questions/answers thread, PM a mod to get it locked.
If you don't let new members post, they will never find anything out.
One final thing: you yourself have posted this in an area in which it doesn't belong. It has nothing to do with Development or Hacking, it's about what happens in this forum. As such, I'm going to move the thread to the "About xda-devs" section.
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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that man said it better than i ever could.
l3v5y said:
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
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i dont want closed developing. i want developing. currently the main thread in question is more like doing lines for teacher. once a day, log in, "HTC-CA drivers disable shutdown, TF3D uses those drivers. use manilatoggle to disable TF3D before you power down" x10
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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djboo... I understand where you are coming from, but I also do not totally agree with your comments. Although I may be a noob, I do have a lot ov experiance in computing. I do not have the time to develop of backwords engineer apps. I wish I did. I would enjoy doing it. I agree with you that the thread owner should be able to delete posts that are off topic, but I think the thread owner should also move a question with an answer to the first page if they see multiple posts. This would make it easier to find some of the common answers. I agree that users should use the search, but it does not always return what you are looking for. I have made a post and been berated for not using the search (when in fact I had). I truly enjoy the work you and the rest of the developers are doing. Without you guys, my phone would be quite boring, but because of the work done on this site, I am quite happy with my phone and how it operates. I have friends that think I am a god because I help them with thier phone, but I would not be able to do half of what I do if it were not for the work done here. I hope you go back to work on Manilla3D. We noobs need the knowledge you provide. As for off topic posts such as the nes on the Manilla3D thread, a lot of them go on due to people endulging these people by answering thier post or flaming them. I have seen senior members do this and all it does is fuel a lot of these guys. Ignore them! Geez, I have had my ligidimate questions ignored, why not ignore the non-ligitimate ones? Anyway, I will get off my soap box. I appreciate everthing all of you developers do and I hope one day I will have the time to contribute to the development community. Take care.
It is possible to set up a "thread owner" or thread based permission system but it would take some work and more importantly a Vbulletin developer to iron out the issues that may come up.
I have tried it on one other site but it was a little difficult. Of course I think a more productive idea is to have developer groups. Vbulletin has a group system built in as of 3.7 and it allows for comments and such. In 3.8 it will allow groups to have their own message boards. With a little help you can set up 3.7 to also have message boards controlled by the owner of the group.
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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djboo said:
that man said it better than i ever could.
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Yup that's why it's in my signature under XDA Mantra.
I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy
tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
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Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
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Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.
I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
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You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
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Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
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Click to collapse
Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha
sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
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Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal
tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
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Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
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What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
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Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.
Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.
poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
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Click to collapse
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
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kudos to you sir
I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]
Let me start by saying that this is just a moan thread, and I don't ask or expect that anything comes from it other than me getting something off my chest and seeing what others think.
I'm a very regular reader and contributor in the HD2 forum, as I have been for over a year now. I like the fact that it's such a busy forum as this obviously means we have a larger resource pool and get answers to issues a lot quicker than a more sparsely populated forum. There is, however, a down-side to this as well. More people does mean more help, but it also means more idiots.
Unfortunately, there's a growing gang of members in the HD2 forum that seem to thrive on posts such as...
"Search for the answer, *****"
or...
"Are you a total retard?"
Now I know that some people ask what a lot of us feel are dumb questions, and a LOT of people are guilty of posting questions without searching thoroughly first, therefore repeating threads, but it seems to be becoming a sport to deal with them with stronger and stronger animosity.
I personally have been guilty of posting "This is the wrong forum" or "This has been answered - please search", but the recent number of similar posts has made me rethink the situation.
First of all, just insulting someone is point-blank out-of-order, and I usually tend to report such posts and hope the mods agree and deal with the individual in question. So that's that done. Now we're left with the "already answered" posts.
This is all hypothetical, so don't do the following search and tell me I was wrong, okay
Say I searched for "bluetooth android not working" and didn't find anything that suited my situation and decided to open a thread. I start one called "bluetooth android not working" and explain my problem. UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answer like a million times. Use the search function"
Now let's go 2 weeks into the future when someone else has the exact same problem. They type into the search "bluetooth android not working" and they find my thread. "Great!" they think, till they read the thread. It's of no use to them whatsoever. So they start a new thread. Guess what - UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answered a million times! I'm getting sick of telling people to search!!!"
This happens every 2 weeks, with different users having the same problems and not finding a solution, therefore posting a new thread.
Okay. Here I have to say that none of the above users searched well enough - that is a valid point, and cannot be changed. By the time they start a new thread it's too late to simply tell them this.
But now, 6 months down the line, we have 12 threads that are titled "bluetooth android not working", and not one of them has an actual answer in it. By this point, the forum is becoming pretty pointless.
All it would take is for Mr.Genius-at-searching UserXXX to have searched, as he claims is easy to do, find a link and then post whatever he wants, with the link at the end of it...
"Here's a link, you **** tard. Learn to search. I can do it, so I have the right to tell you to do it. Want proof I can search? Here it is...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/noonardfoundananswer.php"
Basically, people giving it "do a search if you want answers" should help out new users in doing so. Do a search and maybe tell them what your search criteria was. Maybe they didn't know what NAND was when they were asking about flashing Android to replace WM6.5. Maybe they misspelt "blootueth". They need help, not an arrogant waste of space that generates just as much garbage post in the forum, but with an added side-dish of anger.
Finally, I know that we shouldn't spoon-feed people, as they will never learn to do things themselves. What I am suggesting is that if someone knows how to do something and they find someone who clearly doesn't, then they should help them, rather than just act like an idiot.
Phew. Rant over
Edit: Incidentally, apologies to those who've pointed out that it's not just the HD2 forums that are like this. I didn't mean to imply that they're the only place it happens. I just can't talk from experience for any of the other forums.
Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave
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Thanks for the comments Dave. Glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks like this.
I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
I really do not mind helping people but what I cant stand is lazyness. Its one thing been new to teh subject and not knowing something and then asking for help but its another to simply not even bother checking a forum stickies or at least doing a simple search before creating a topic that has already been created.
On some occasions its because the subject is a hard one to search and filter out but on allot of occasions you know its simply because they have not bothered and thought they would just create a topic and let other people do work for them, That is what I cant stand.
Although I have stopped been really abrupt I will still not answer these people but instead choose to make sure they are aware that its not on.
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.
Completely agree with what the OP is trying to say.
TheATHEiST said:
I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
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Are the from people you helped, or from people who liked your quips? (j/k)
TheATHEiST said:
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.
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I think the point John is making, is that the unhelpful replies limit users ability to search. For example, searching for "Help Flashing Evo" will find threads with the answer "Use Search", (recursion ) hence annoying the user and causing them to post instead of carrying on.
Users who don't bother reading/searching are (and probably always will be) a problem, hence svetius's change requiring 10 post to use Development forums; we need to find more efficient ways to help them
Dave
thank you very much!!! i have been thinking about this topic a long by myself, but i didnt dare to mention it with my low post counter.
I got my HD2 only 1 month ago and its my first WM device. I am very good with all technical devices, but it was still very hard for me to find the right answers.
As i just bricked my nokia phone during an update i wanted to make sure to not brick my HD2..
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.
oida_oida said:
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The guides and the wikis + plethora of resources are already in place especially for establishes devices like the Leo. The only issues is the "newer" crowd is lazy and does not search and hence hundreds of threads asking questions to which answers have already been mentioned sometime somewhere on the forum. That's not the only issue- the problem is that these newer people won't be patient or even post in the correct place.
For eg. I have seen threads about Android development being posted in Win D&H.
We have to live & deal with it, it's a side effect of growth and progress.
JM2C's.
There seems to be a significant amount of animosity of late in all forums - not just HD2. I'm not certain as to why this is, all I do know is that I find unacceptable. As moderators, we spend more time cleaning up flame & troll posts than working on our own community contributions.
My observations:
XDA is about bringing together folks who have similar passions about mobile technology. As such, I expect a certain degree of maturity and professionalism from all members during their "stay" on this forum.
Responses that provide helpful and constructive information as opposed to "use the search", "try Google", "it's broken", "fix it", etc. help guide the thread back to topic. Here's a few examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9929554&postcount=4
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10749020&postcount=7
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10097254&postcount=22
There is absolutely no reason to respond in a rude tone, make someone feel stupid, or disrespect a member trying to offer something back to the community ... it is not constructive and serves no purpose. Members are never forced to frequent a thread on this forum and as previously stated, members should choose to move on instead of posting inflammatory comments.
Shortly after the launch of a well advertised mobile device, there is an influx of new members. Most all carriers and device manufacturers send their customers to XDA for technical assistance. Place a call to your carrier technical support department, it won't take long before the support representative instructs you to: "check out XDA, they have tons of information on how to fix that ...".
Most of newcomers who frequent the site are under the misconception that XDA is an extension of their carrier technical support department. This becomes apparent when I read posts complaining about issues with features or demanding an answer to their problem. As most of these newcomers are less technical, they lack the expertise required to assess the problem and determine the correct terminology to use in a search.
The current consumer model is not conducive to holding carrier and device manufacturers accountable. The current marketing paradigm is about convenience and how the one device that "does it all" is here. Most consumers buy into the paradigm and spend little to no time researching before the purchase. Once the device is purchased and fails to meet expectations, they simply go out and purchase something else.
vBulletin Search is horrible and unless one has a PhD in XDA Google Search, the likelihood of finding a meaningful answer in a billion threads is well ... challenging at best.
There are other observations that I have made; but the ones above are IMHO, some of the key issues and why I prefer to take a less aggressive approach when moderating newcomer posts.
Regards,
Those observations are very accurate and sums up the issue well, Hilaireg.
Thanks to all for giving your two cents on this rather important issue. The problems that we currently face are a product of people not having a sense of community. As hilaireg stated, many come here for a "quick fix" simply because the CSR at their company had no idea what to do and decided to direct you here to see if maybe you could fix the issue yourself.
Admittedly, there are search engines that are somewhat better than vB's, but the point that the OP is making is 100% dead on target. By playing "smarta$$" and replying "search, you n00b" instead of providing any meaningful reply will do nothing else than dilute the results of your search. Having said this, people complaining that the search does not work, 8 times out of 10, are expecting the right answer to pop up in the first result from the thread, and will probably give up if by the second or third link they have not found anything. Patience is a virtue, and people looking for knowledge should expect for this to come at the price of a little effort.
I went from a $10 clamshell dumdum phone for 6 years, whambang straght into my Leo. I am over 36 & under 38 years old.
It took me 3 months of fumbling around getting peeved over constant resetting and crashes.
Not once did I bother anyone here with a question that with a bit of hands on do-it-yourself would eventually learn on my own.
However, I had Tmo tech. on speed dial...
I am not new to the forum game though...check my thread "Throttled". lol.
anywho, my phone will remain stock with tweaks, skins, and sweet theme action.
This is an awesome piece of awesome, but NOT for the severely impatient or timid.
Thank you XDA for doing the absolute maximum in making my leo purrrr!!!!
and moan threads are for sissies btw...lol.
@ hilaireg & egzthunder1
I understand and agree to some extent your points but the fact of the matter is that something really needs to be done to halt or slow down the amount of dupe posts or other that are polluting/diluting the forum.
I'm going to be honest I dont really have any problems using vB search and usally find the info I need. PLUS much rather find the info myself because it also makes me learn other stuff in process that I may need in future that I wouldnt usually learn if I had just gone and asked somebody for specific info.
Here are the steps I take to find the relevant info...
Check stickies
Check latest topics
Use search function (topic titles)
Use search function (topic content)
Then if I dont find any info I want I begin to start a new thread and take note of the "similar threads" function before posting. If all else fails I use google.
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
I really think that we need to have a 100 post limit on the dev section this will reduce by allot the amount of spam we get, maybe not specifically for replying to topics but certainly for creating them. And also maybe a FAQ sticky in each Q&A forum with links to most asked ones.
TheATHEiST said:
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
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The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
There are solutions:
1) the OPs start updating their original posts with solutions to outstanding problems. The search engine is only as good as the queries being put into it, and as more "SEARCH DA TRED NEB3!!!" responses fill the thread, that makes actually finding the solution all the more difficult.
2) Regulars stop flaming the newbies. When I first started posting here I got a number of @ss**** responses to reasonable questions. If regulars behave like that, what type of newbs do you think you're attracting?
Lets not make this a 'he said/she said' or a pointing-fingers thread.
For a solution to the problem at hand, when we see such behavior, we can easily rectify it - as the OP stated - by posting the answer to questions instead of telling the person to search for the answer.
Now this does also bring a 'double-edge' scenario: This may give the n00bs the idea that it is okay to post a question without searching. But this is already happening.
So if we at least cut the amount of posts about the same topic down, there will be less of what bothers the senior members. And we won't have to suggest 'Search the forums for the answer.'
As a possible-soon-to-be-moderator of the Herald forums, I promise to do this myself. Hopefully, we can all agree to do the same as Senior Members of this community. I also don't expect anyone who has less than a hundred posts to do this, but, hopefully a trend will catch on.
apallohadas said:
The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
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Hey I didnt say they was the only problem, hence "99%".
If we keep re-iterating the same answers we are just going round in circles. The ONLY way to solve this is to somehow halt/slow them from asking the same repeat questions in first place, not just keep providing the answers every time they decide to be lazy and ask the same question and not just that they also ask them by creating a topic in the wrong places.
It's not just the HD2 forum, it's the same in the Desire one too (and yes, I'm guilty of a bit of flaming but some people just ask EXTREMELY dumb questions and even when you answer continue to ignore you so they deserve it)
Rule 1 of the forum is to search and for those who haven't even done that they deserve it too. But to those who say they've actually tried and not found anything I'll try and be helpful
These people just need to learn the proper way to ask a question. If you want a response from the power-hungry people who reply with insults, you must phrase it properly.
Instead of saying: "How do you get bluetooth working in Android NAND?"
They need to say: "Android on the HD2 SUCKS because bluetooth doesn't work right!"
What you will then see is these jerks flocking to prove the OP wrong, all while answering his question. 90% of the time, it works every time.
But if we do keep reiterating the answers to properly asked questions, that makes the search engine more useful for those that do use it. The answer doesn't get buried in 'you suk n00b' responses.
If a person feels they can't respond without insults, then they should have the self control not to respond right?
IMO the ones with knowledge need self control and should control their temper; and be helping ( luckily for us most are ).
And the n00bs need to know the forum decorum and manners better.
And the minimum posts requirement to post in dev. section is a small but very important step in the right direction, I recall when I signed up on XDA for months I was just reading and posting. And posted only in the Q&A threads or threads related to fashing/ROMs ( when I needed help with that); but these days the people won't have the patience to do that.
Either we need to vomit it out on them or somehow teach them the old school method of search + posting on right threads/forums.
Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.
BretonGirl said:
Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.
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even though ive given you a thanks or this, i do believe its set correctly. This forum has soooooo many existing users plus the new ones joining everyday its very suprising how little advertising,spamming goes on here and i do think its contributed by the new user rules.
I myself have only ever been a mod for a 200+ forum and the amount of spam we had to delete each day was a joke, imagine how many links around the web lead to xda....the amount of spam this site would be suffering had they not placed these rules the xda maybe not what we all cherish today
edit "NOTE", lol just wait until you accidentally post in the wrong section
I understand your situation, considering that you have been a forum moderator in other forums
But when I was a new user i never got to enter any captcha or so !
I have no clue that Captcha was being used on XDA to be honest!
But one thing that can help you is that you can answer others's questions in the Q and A forum of the device(s) you own. Helps to get that 10 post thing done early, especially if you know enough to help someone else out
Anyways all the best and you can PM me if you need any more help or you may contact a senior admin
just my 2 (+1) cents p) and Peace!
I've never been a moderator for any forum and even I know the effect spammers can have if the proper procedures don't take place.
But you gotta know, it's only for a few posts...it's not like you'll be entering captcha codes in forever and never be able to share weblinks or screen shots.
Just ride it out, we all had to
Well, this is a touchy subject.
Being such a high traffic forum we really do need aggressive anti spam measures.
As for the restrictions on the development sections.... We'll that's also a touchy subject but for entirely different reasons.
Once upon a time XDA was populated solely by developers, developers who developed for no other reason than the love of developing. Then the smartphone became accessible to more and more people, which led to more and more members who weren't developers. This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development forums.....
That's about it really.. Check out the sticky in this section for a more detailed explanation
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I appreciate everyone's replies. I have no problem with the 10 posts before getting access to the developer's section. You certainly don't want anything but quality in a section like that.
I also understand the spam issue. One of my day jobs is as a staff writer for a blog hosted by a company that makes anti-spam software. I know more than I ever wanted to on the subject!
This is a great forum!
I agree
The forum is very anti-noob. I hate entering capta images that I can hardly read, can only post every 5 minutes, this really sucks. I hope when I hit 10 posts this crap goes away
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
i kind of like the idea of captcha on the first few post i may use it on my site. i have a xbox modding site and it generates a bit of spam from time to time.
webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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Yep, and at the same time most new users don't understand the concept of searching the forums so their first 10 posts which are asking rather than helping would probably have already been asked previously. i.e. forum gets cluttered up, which is pretty much a form of spam.
Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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Yeah exactly! And making ten posts isn't that time consuming either at the same time.
webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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This is true as well. But if they need help they should be posting in the Q&A sections of their device not the development section.
I think the rules are there for a reason and the MODs and Admin have thought a lot on this issue and its only for first 10 posts.
It's not too bad, it's worth it.
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I think if people were able to sign in with their google accounts though there wouldn't be need for all this...
conantroutman said:
This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development
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And now they post Questions in the general forums =.=
Sent from my E15i using Tapatalk
We're always trying to make things better on the forums. This means we have to try stuff to see if it works. It's basically trial & error for the most part.
The spamming has decreased alot the past couple of months with the new captchas and 10 post rule. Still, we need to find a way to make it less difficult to join our forums and more difficult to post spam. Ideas are always welcome of course.
Annoying for non noobs
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A
Slotty_AU said:
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A
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Is it so much to ask that you read for a bit first, pick up some knowledge and experience, help a few people in the 90+% of the site which is completely open to you such as your devices General or Q&A forums or any of the General discussion forums, to participate with quality posts instead of BS posts, in return for being able to post into any of the ROM threads from any dev on this site?
I've had the immense privilege of watching this site grow since just a couple months after it introduced a few new phone models to the original O2 XDA. I actually get my soap opera fix and tech fix all in one! I'm hooked.
It's not just spam. I was a horrendous new user, posting in the wrong forum, responding to emotional posts enough to encourage them, I even chewed out a guy for blasting a noob. The problem is organic, and though spam has become part of that (probably the hugest part, now) it's that organic nature of this forum that makes it so great. Really tough problem to grow something cleanly without squelching it.
I was wondering if XDA could track a user's searches, or forums "read" for more than a minute, and after 30 or so, then stop the captchas. It seems like over the years it's folks who don't search & read (spammers or otherwise) that are the detraction. Maybe something like being in "reader" status as a step to becoming a new user & able to post at all.
1. I could have used it.
2. I'm putting this here, in the weird forum for this topic it's in, to see what people think. Wanting to have input as a developer is definitely a magnification of the problem. I'm glad it's here.
(ThinkPad Tablet:Tapatalk 2)