Related
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/6077.html
I submitted our plight as a story on ms mobiles and we made it on
To admins: they requested a link to them from our main page, after all are helping us, i said i didnt have that power but i would ask you guys
Midget_1990 said:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/6077.html
I submitted our plight as a story on ms mobiles and we made it on
To admins: they requested a link to them from our main page, after all are helping us, i said i didnt have that power but i would ask you guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
submit it to pocketpcthoughts.com also
Posted on PPCSG.com forums. No sign of them picking it up, tho. Doesn't matter.
good luck!
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1110139
We made Engadget O__O
I've got us onto The Inquirer, http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37682
I was also asked for an interview by them so if anyone has anything really useful to say then please email me at [email protected] (xda-devs isnt working too well for me atm)
I MADE THIS on pocketpc.com.hk
the largest ppc forum in hk too
heres is the digg stories
http://digg.com/search?s=xda&submit=Search§ion=news&type=both&area=all&age=7&sort=new
you,ve got my support guys bring it on !!!!!!!!
Wow 3271 signatures by now and increasing, i will modify my sig in the forums to take people on the petition
xplode said:
Wow 3271 signatures by now and increasing, i will modify my sig in the forums to take people on the petition
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea! Edited my signature too.
Submitted to The Register, here's hoping!
Edit: They said a few people had mailed in about it, and they'll have a story up about it soon, as it's currently going through their editorial procedure.
Edit 2: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/20/ms_roms_to_go/
Was just about to post a link to the article myself - interestingly though, they claim that Microsoft will offer WM6 as an upgrade for a fee, which makes the whole thing a little more interesting, as it now does appear that Crossbow ROMs on here could have an effect on their profitability. So if nothing else, I guess that means that we do have official WM6 updates to look forward to.
Cheers,
Steve.
I for one wouldn't mind paying an upgrade fee, as long as it's reasonable. I got my Vario II a few months ago, so wouldn't expect to pay huge amounts, but a 'reasonable' upgrade fee (£30-50 tops?) would be acceptable in my eyes.
If they do offer the WM6 Hermes upgrade, I'll pay for it. Otherwise I'll probably end up waiting to see if someone can hack it into the phone, and then do it. Either way, I'll be upgrading it - it's Microsoft's choice whether I have a 'legitimate' upgrade path or not.
4724 signatures so far by the way.
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?xdadevs
Done !
Even if i run with the official orange Rom (because i'm scared of ROM update !), i support this petition !
What to do to avoid persons "cooking" their own ROMS ???
Release a GOOD ROBUST ROM, with fine tuning...
I must wait for about one minute, each time i soft reset my device...
Is it a optimized ROM ???
I signed. I haven't updated because there isn't one for my PPC, but I support anyone's right to do with their property what they wish.
I just did so too...
me too. petition FTW!
Petition
I read about petition on a thread then couldn't find where to sign. Found it now but maybe links should be posted in more places for more people to see.
Keep up the good work. This site is excellent.
up
up
sign it
we need you
Signed,
I don't see microsoft's problem though, the images are free from the providers, the device includes a license to run windows mobile on it, installing a new image displaces the old image, so it's still one license, one copy of WM on the device...
How is running a copy of windows mobile on a licensed device against MS?
By their rationale though, if I installed XP on my machine, from a friend's CD, but used my key, is it legal? from what MS are intimating here, no, yet I am using the license I own on My machine...
Bears thinking about really...
I don't understand
Very strange...
First the Palm vs. Pocket PC debate. Then the Palm / PPC / RIM-BB argument. Soon to come the PPC vs. iPhone. Microsoft is always trying to expand markets and displace other technologies. You would think that this momentum would help them, right?
Suddenly, a group of dedicated people bring a long delayed upgrade to our devices without any obvious or flagrant licensing violation (unless the next step is to charge us all for the OS upgrade for the devices we have already licensed), and Microsoft reaction is to try to shut it down?
Perhaps they are planning to buy RIM and want us all to move to Blackberries. At least I wont have to reboot once a day....
Signed...!!!!
Lets hope Micro$oft see sense and not just a chance of screwing someone for $$$$$$$$$$$
Though I am sad as well and personally endorse the use of cooked roms, I can understand Microsoft's point of view:
1) HTC devices are locked to one of the OEM manufactures, i.e. T-Mobile (MDA), Qtek, iMate, etc. The upgrades only work on the correct OEM-brand.
2) OEM manufacturers have to PURCHASE the updates from Microsoft.
3) OEM manufacturers may or may not decide to release (buy and give it for free or for a fee) to it's customers.
The way XDA-Developers provided all the rom's with the necessary tool to allow the installation of any rom-flavour to any OEM version would basically cause:
1) That OEM manufacturer A would pay MS for the upgrade and all other OEM manufacturers would benefit from it for free.
2) MS to be in a difficult position to be able to charge for the upgrades.
3) A considerable amount of broken devices which would have to be repaired (flashed) for free, as it would be difficult or expensive to prove that the cause is due to the use of improper ROM's or improper procedures to upgrade.
The final argument to the question "why doesn't MS provide the ROM's for free, as the current ones have bugs?":
1) All programs/OS have bugs.
2) It is normal to pay for upgrades.
3) MS needs to pay it's developers and is a company that aims profit.
The only valid question would be, in my opinion: "why doesn't MS sell upgrades to end-users?".
Please don't get me wrong: I have nothing to do with MS and hate the current situation as anyone else. I just hate to always read "MS sucks, everything should be free, etc.".
If you use ilegal ROM's, that's fine with me. But at least UNDERSTAND that they are ilegal!!!
I think it would be best to just use upload servers, instead of having an FTP server. One always will find the necessary files - what's really important about XDA-Developers is the KNOWLEDGE. It would be a shame to have the whole site shut down because of copyright infringements caused by some ROM's.
Cheers,
vma
Done! I support what Crash Override mentioned. And after all, I've purchased a Windows Mobile phone not from a Network provider, but SIM FREE .. It was sold to me with a license to use Windows mobile 5 ... which never mentions the version. Just like PC's Windows licenses. Anyway - I hope they realise soon that people would buy more Windows Mobile phones if they had more freedom to do with them what they want afterwards.
If not the flexibility, there are other great phones on the market, which aren't flexible at all - but have stable and well designed OS's.
So Mr. Gates Your vision in the 80's started well with trying to put Windows in every house. Now you are going for the mobiles - which is great, but don't restrict your users more than necessary or you will start loosing them. The more people can play with these phones, the more they will want them!
Knowing this site and seeing the rules as they are I know the site wouldn't allow pirated software on the site. You guys don't even allow talking about it.
Well, when I told a friend I got WM6 for my phone he is swearing up and down with me that it is pirated and that I am in Denial (which makes no sense). I honestly can't explain how it isn't illegal, so I figured I would let you guys tell me how to explain this.
You can't explain it because it is a form of piracy. Unless you put exactly the same version of software back on your phone with at most a few things removed, it's a pirated version. If you've put anything on it that isn't freely given out in the rom that you didn't have before than it's pirated.
This site doesn't condone warez or illegal distribution of applications.The difference is that in order to make use of these rom changes, you have to OWN a device purchased with the microsoft software to begin with.
So why would MS take the time to contact the site to remove some Roms and not all or these?
I would have also assumed pirated if it wasn't for the post to people asking for warez. If they allow one and not the other that isn't right, so I figured it was totally legal to have WM6. Maybe the same way I had Windows Longhorn (vista) back in the development days legally.
Our goal here is to make the software that you legally purchased with your $700 device actually work the way it was intended to work. We don't offer apps that aren't prepackaged with these devices. You purchased a WindowsMobile license when you purchased your device.
There's a complex relationship between m$, device manufacturers and Operators. Each makes changes to these devices. Consider XDA-Developers to be somewhere between the device manufacturer and the Operator level.
yeah, technically you paid for a microsoft license when you bought your phone. Still, copying these WM6 cooked ROMs ARE a form of piracy. But it does'nt really matter seeing as HTC is planning to Release a WM6 update anyway. we just got it a bit early.
Our phones came with WM5 not WM6
but.. HTC released WM6 for their devices but our phone carriers may never release them to us
Come on guys this ROMs are not Paireted as they are not sold off the shelf... this is not windos XP Pro or Vista... this is a per loaded software on the devices and most of the or at least HTC is giving free upgrade....
but the ROM upgrade VOID's your hardware Warranty... as its stated in your Warranty terms...
So basically the terms of use for mobile phones is not the same as desktop software because you have no choice but to purchase a legit license for WM when you buy the phone?
truffle1234 said:
Come on guys this ROMs are not Paireted as they are not sold off the shelf.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So then, a movie leaked on the Internet before it's actual release date is not pirated?
todd_jg said:
So then, a movie leaked on the Internet before it's actual release date is not pirated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not the point. The line, though a thin one, seems to be over whether you would normally have to PAY for the software. Thus depriving someone/corporation of revenue it would normally receive.
WM6 will not be charged for. So within those parameters does not fall within the the strict term "Piracy".
That's pretty close Wam7. Operators and/or hardware developers pay licensing fees to m$ for every device they sell. That cost is supposedly subsidized in the price we pay. Therefore, as you say, revenues aren't decreased by our work here. With Warez, this isn't the case as the hacker deprives the author of revenue with every hacked version that gets used.
This is why we don't tolerate Warez here.
Mcrosoft Offering Windows Mobile 6 Free
In this article:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/...ws-mobile-6-upgrade-for-device-manufacturers/
It is apparent that Windows Mobile 6 is being offered as a free upgrade to device manufacturers. In reality, what we early adopters are doing is beta testing the OS prior to final release. Microsoft, with their droves of legal experts, may wish to twist this into some sort of piracy, ip, rights issue to save face or just to be a$$hole$, and carriers may wish to add and take away what they want as well (I believe it was Cingular that whined to M$ about XDA-Developers), but the REALITY is that nobody here is doing anything more than unauthorized beta testing of an OS that has been released FOR FREE to device manufacturers. It may be more of a gray area when it comes to the addon applications that sometimes come bundled with the cooked ROMS, or as separate addons (i.e. Cyberon Voice Command), but only if the device you purchased did not originally include the same software. I am NOT a lawyer, and I am sure a lawyer could argue against my point just as easily as they could argue that a child molester is a victim of society. Nonetheless, I do not feel like I am doing anything wrong, and, in fact, I felt very annoyed at Cingular when they refused to give me a refund for my 8525 after I decided it was unusable 45 days after getting one (30 days is the policy for returns). My 8525 sat in a drawer for months, until I decided to flash with a WM6 ROM from this site. Suddenly, it worked! No more freezing, no more bluetooth bullcrap, no more missed calls. I agree with sleuth 100% when he says that what we are trying to do is get our devices to work as they should (stable, fast, trouble free). Despite the constant whining that some of the geeks on this site continue doing about petty bullcrap, bless them for stepping up and delivering a working product to those of us that would otherwise have to sit and wait for a bloated crapware ROM from Cingular with that POS "Get Express Mail" and "Get Telenav" cooked into it, and bless the power users who truly beta test the product to help make a better ROM.
Firehawkns said:
Knowing this site and seeing the rules as they are I know the site wouldn't allow pirated software on the site. You guys don't even allow talking about it.
Well, when I told a friend I got WM6 for my phone he is swearing up and down with me that it is pirated and that I am in Denial (which makes no sense). I honestly can't explain how it isn't illegal, so I figured I would let you guys tell me how to explain this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares, MS is not going out of business, nor will the price of XP/Vista or my next HTC phone go down if I paid for WM6. I dont see Bill Gates eating in a soup kitchen.....oh and the fact that WM6 will be given free as an upgrade can make all the others feel warm and not dirty about themselves.
You see though why it still is piracy, at least right now. For every device running this wm6 software microsoft should have received a payment. If for some reason cingular decides not to upgrade these afterall (I'm just using this as hypothetical) then microsoft is in fact loosing some money. WM6 is not a free upgrade, that misprint was shot down by several new articles after it came out. The reason this form of piracy is accepted is because the end user has no possible way to PAY for the software legally, you have zero options to legally aquire the newer OS. Thus your pirating it becomes a "gray" area of the law.
This is no different than the canadians stealing DTV's signal from the US. They could not legally aquire the signal, their payment would not be accepted, thus they turned to the only other way to get it. That's of course all changed recently.
wpbear said:
Who cares, MS is not going out of business, nor will the price of XP/Vista or my next HTC phone go down if I paid for WM6. I dont see Bill Gates eating in a soup kitchen.....oh and the fact that WM6 will be given free as an upgrade can make all the others feel warm and not dirty about themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh trust me I don't care. I have 3 pirated XP pro machines running at my house. We just got in a discussion about it so I wanted to see what the answer was. It all started because of all the hell he gives me for my software habbits.
Hey, where is the EULA that I supposedly agreed to? I don't see one anywhere.
and since when do we have pirated beta software? Man, we're been risking our precious device to beta test WM6 for them.
Hmmm.... Well, I think that Microsoft may disagree with that.
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12837
Similarly, other boards have taken a different view.
http://www.phonenews.com/blog/content/view/133/11/
upgrade the Cingular 8125 from Windows Mobile 5 to Windows Mobile 6. That would be a product upgrade and not a product update, and would require a new license from Microsoft
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, the argument could be well made that putting WM6 on a device for which it was not intended DECREASES the sales of the devices it is supposed to go on - limiting upgrades. This would most definitely cut revenue - for the device manufacturers, M$ and the carriers who leverage the upgrades for contract extensions.
That said, I agree that it is a very fine line and that both sides of the argument can be made. However, in a courtroom fight, my money is on M$.
Back in the day when direct tv hacking was very easy the canadian government said this.
If you can't buy it, its not stealing.
Same thing applies here in my opinion based on software.
going back to direct tv hacking they also said if it falls in your backyard then its owned by you. What did direct tv do? They made it harder to decrypt their signals. Solved their piracy problem, even if it was legal in some countries.
I like this thread - I hope people don't mind this philosophical discussion and that they take it as a fun mental exercise, not an argument.
exstatica said:
canadian government said this.
If you can't buy it, its not stealing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, then you would not mind if I came to your house and took your refrigerator, which is not currently for sale? Not sure about that one - seems overly simplistic. The fact that it is not currently "on the market" is not the same as saying that it has no monetary value.
they also said if it falls in your backyard then its owned by you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think that this argument would apply here. Surely the signals from DirecTV were being blasted down into your yard by a satellite. I think they Internet is quite different. Hmmm.... interesting though.
Hi,
Please participate to petition, otherwise it becomes soon boringly here.
XDA Developers Petition
MfG
S64
Not much info in this post, but the link is to the petition to allow XDA-Developers to host ROMs again. MS banned them from hosting them a while back, and all it did was make people use File-Sharing websites instead.
Personally, I think having them held on XDA-Dev and moderated is a much more secure method than having to store them on file sharing.
If you want XDA-Dev to be able to host ROMs, sign the petition. If you don't, don't!
Thanks Stu for clarifying this thread! Interesting petition...I'll check it out.
thanks sign and put in sig
perhaps a better name for this petition would be "Dear Microsoft, my name's XXX and I like stealing your software"
That does not have to steal only change nothing also.
Everyone, which any HTC of the telephones possesses, the software already paid.
Hoping are not still more people of your opinion.
We all profit from forums like this.
Everyone that that does not please, can dissolve its account here.
I have absolutely nothing against xda-developers's roms, i've used many of them and I think they're great.
I do, however. think that it's slightly naive to tell a notoriously litigious company that you enjoy stealing their products.
Onto my soapbox
I do not, and never have, considered what XDA Dev does to be stealing. We take released ROMs, and make the best ones we can from the best bits. To my mind, it's very similar to taking a load of Ford cars (say) and making a car with the best bits - so some ROMs have the space of a people carrier (Dutty), some have the performance of a GT (TNT) and some have the customisability of a Focus ST (Pandora). Ford have then come along and told us we cannot hold these finished cars on our yard, so we're making them and distributing them via all the local dealerships!
To my mind, it's much easier to keep dangerous ROMs off the streets (and hence lower "warranty" claims) if we're just allowed to host the ROMs again. That'll give the chefs and mods a lot more control and simplify the current stupid situation of having to use file sharing sites.
Apologies for the analogy (and I know everyone will disagree with the cars/manufacturer/ROMs parrallels, but it was only a hastily thrown together example) but this is just my two cents worth.
unfortunately software is not like a car, it is one of those lovely bits of intangible IP that allows the manufacturer to have enduring rights over it - it doesn't matter what we consider to be stealing, it's not our consideration to make.
tbh i think that xda-devs would be a great help to certain phone companies (just look how awful the first vario II rom was compared to some of the roms that have come out of here), but you may as well petition the RIAA to allow you to download music for free because you're really good at remixing
I do not understand your point. We do not "ask for free music" we already paid for it. As far as i know, our hermes came with a valid licence no? And as far as i know, htc is giving us the ability to download wm6 without paying once more for it...
HTC pay M$ for a license to allow them to create device specific roms, these roms are either distributed to people who bought direct from HTC or are distributed via providers such as tmobile (who license the software from HTC/M$ and develop it further). Similarly, a person who wished to cover or remix a song must obtain the right to do it from the original creator/owner of the intellectual property that is the music/words/etc.
HTC and providers try to protect the money they have paid for licenses by making it necessary to enter IMEI/serial numbers in order to download rom updates and provide them only for their customers.
Xda developers do not license the right to develop roms from M$ or HTC
Umm, You all do know that you're quite a few months late on this whole spreading the word on the petition thing...right?
I did sign the petition...long ago, but myself..I don't see what the fuss is about, Im sure I have missed a couple posts, but so far in this wm6 section, I have only seen one person with a bogus ROM they had got, and were asking about, also Im pretty sure they said that came from a torrent.
The ftp here isn't known to be the cleanest, as far as bogus files etc, and yes I know there is a locked down section..once the file is approved or whatever the word used in this case might be, but that requires mod's to constantly stay ontop of, and files are shared before they get there.
Also, I don't know how fat the pipe is here, but all this hosting on the fileshare sites has to be helping..I would think, cause the number of HTC devices increases, along with the numbers of cooked ROM's, Im sure even now, the number of downloads for all the cooked roms just in this section has to be outrageous.
This petition i directed to HTC, Microsoft and all wireless carriers who sell these devices:
We want Windows Phone 6.5 for our HTC Touch Diamond/Pro/HD!
Sign Petition here
Help me so I can help you.
Don't mean to discourage you, but i find kinda funny you posting this on a forum where there's atleast 100 diferent Windows Mobile 6.5 roms for those devices...
Even better, Windows 6.5.1 in all of them...
I'll sign the petition for the kicks, but there's no way i would use the upgrade even if they released it...
Contrary to you I like official roms instead of all the crap software that the coocked roms have. I like to have the base and choose myself the software I want to put in ...
Good initiative ...
Shure, like they care!
I have sign that anyway.
Good luck!
Just do it!
Come on people, it may well turn out to be a waste of time but hey, it only takes a minute or two - you'd be crazy not to!
Spread the word!
Steve.
PS
I looked at the petition again (17 mins after signing) and another 14 had signed.
By my reckoning - at that rate - we should hit 10000 in just under 8.5 days.
Worth a shot eh?
For HTC, there is simply no business case for doing this.
signed!
------------------
signed thank you
Ulyan said:
Contrary to you I like official roms instead of all the crap software that the coocked roms have. I like to have the base and choose myself the software I want to put in ...
Good initiative ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm really strange considering a stock ROM would have more in it than a LIGHT/LITE ROM. You'd get more storage and less apps to start with. Not to mention a faster ROM.
Sorry to be the bad guy but unfortunately I doubt your petition will get you anywhere. AFAIK it's all up to the carriers, not Microsoft or HTC.
signed.. keep the spirit mate!!
Signing
Signed, with hopes....
signed.
hoping...
sure ill signed, i wish they'd give us a fully working 6.5 canvas, volume controller, menu enhancement and htc sense /nod
No need to create multiple threads for each device.
Seriously, all 11 of your posts were the exact same thing.