Related
I'm not sure of the legal basis for O2 refusing to supply onlock codes (which they have done with me 3 times now, despite others' success), so I have decided to complain to OFCOM.
1) I don't see how they can control what I do with a phone I have bought privately, SIM free on the open market.
2) I have no contract with them, so they cannot bind me to anything. They have tried telling me I can have the unlock code when I have had my PAYG SIM for a year; however, this is nothing to do with the xda. These were two separate transactions. There is no term in my SIM contract relating to a particular phone.
3)the original owner still has a contract with them and is using his SIM in his new phone, thus they are not losing out. Furthermore, by refusing to unlock it they are getting two customers from one contract.
4) It is anti-competitive, as I cannot choose to go to a cheaper network (I want to use T-Mobile for the free voicemail). They could raise their PAYG tariff astronomically, and I would still have to use O2 or my phone would be useless. I am also unable to use a foreign SIM card when abroad, thus am tied in to expensive international calls, with the money going to O2.
5) What would I do if O2 go bust or cease to trade, or fail to get their licence renewed, etc? My phone would be absolutely useless.
Below is the link I have used to register my complaint. If they are inundated with complaints, hoefully they will do something about it.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/contact_ofcom/general_complaint
Cathy
I guess I am playing Devil's Advocate, but I have to say that I see there point.
Otherwise, ANYONE could buy an XDA2 for just one example, sell it on at a high profit from the subsidisation cost he/she paid/will pay through the contract term, and make a tidy profit there and then, whilst still selling it to you for less than an unlocked SIM free handset from the likes of eBay.
I appreciate your views, BUT, to the letter of the law, UNTIL the original purchaser fulfills his 12 months, its technically not even HIS to sell to you.
Its a grey area, but to the letter of the law, that's the situation.
We ALL know that in reality it doesn't work that way, and we all sell stuff on before the 12 months is up, knowing that we as the original owner are liable to ensure we see out the 12 months.
BUT, in your case however, you are not talking about a day to day ownership, but arguing a point of law because of the difficult situation you are in.
And as I outlined, this is one of the very reasons why, to the letter of the law, its not even meant to pe permissable to even sell it on to you.
It becomes the property of the original purchaser, only at the point he has satisfied his 12 month term, and only then is he really meant to sell it.
We all know this isn't what happens, but it DOES mean we are not in any position to argue law, if we choose to agree to buying it.
Otherwise, i could buy a £120 XDA2 from onestop, with a contract bringing it to £360 all in, over a year, BUT sell it straight on to you now for £400, unopened, sealed, brand new in effect, sim free, and make a tidy profit of £40, AND spread the rest of my repayments to O2, IF they were to then instantly agree to give you the unlock code.
An unlikely scenario to say the least.
(All this of course aside from the fact that the XDA2 can easily be unlocked using any of the tools on this site - including the latest ROM version I beleive - so I am not sure waht the purpose of the post is Cathy - why not just unlock it like I did, to use it on Orange?)
im with you Shadamehr. Why bother complaining when its so easy to unlock it anyway. i unlocked mine without problem using the tools available on this website.
...However, there have also been posts from people who have used the download tools and have then experienced problems. I have the ROM version that requires the hard reset and using bootloader mode, or whatever it is. I am not a computer expert, and I have forund from experience that tampering with things that are at present working is not a good plan. It is very time consuming, and I don't feel competent to deal with any problems that arise.
Cathy said:
I have the ROM version that requires the hard reset and using bootloader mode, or whatever it is. I am not a computer expert, and I have forund from experience that tampering with things that are at present working is not a good plan. It is very time consuming, and I don't feel competent to deal with any problems that arise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with your right and demand to get services in such a case. However, for anyone that does not want to go through the unlock process with the bootloader and hard reset (the 'old' method), I advise you to upgrade. As far as I know all major sellers now provide upgrades. These will also upgrade your radio to version 1.10.x, which is a very much improved radio version. Well worth the upgrade. After that upgrade the simple upgrade tool (the 'new' method) works.
Cathy, I never meant to offend - just to point out the basic premise that on a point of law, you have no legal basis to ask for the unlock code, because to the letter of the law, he had no legal right to even sell you it.
It's a bit hard insisting on an unlock code from the netowrk, for a device that the owner shouldn't even have sold you anyway now is it?
I know we ALL do it QUIETLY, but that doesn't make a whole lot of difference when we need to kick up a fuss and publicise it does it?
But believe me, the Unlock method you refer to, if you have radio stack version 1.05, is REALLY easy enough, and in fact, the LEAST dangerous, in that it isn't actually CHANGING anything unlike the others, as it is only working out what the unlock code is - it doesn't actually unlock it - it only works out the code for you, so it could be argued it's the least intrusive/dangerous.
You then just put another network SIM into the XDA2, so it gives the obvious unathaurised SIM message, and then asks you to enter the unlock code - just exactly the same as if it was supplied by the network.
Failing that, and if you still are unhappy, which I understand, then the new GENUINE, OFFICIAL ROM Upgrade is now available from the O2 UK website.
It's a long process of around an hour all in, but it updates to the latest version whereby you can run a simple unlock tool on the phone to do it all for you.
Hope this is of some use, and if any of us can help more, just ask here...
Thank you...
ahhh, but...
I would contend that although the owner no longer has the phone and has sold it, he is in fact meeting the subsidation requirement by maintaining his contract.
I would also contend or pose the question that what if you broke the phone (by mistake)?
As long as the contract period is still upheld by the original owner, than the provider has no right to hold the unlock code of the now, transferred phone. That's why there are cancellation fees and long-term contracts.
JS
If a locked phone presents a problem for a potential customer then they should, at the outset, request that the phone be unlocked and that your signing the contract depends on this, the reason, if asked, is that you may have to use a 3rd party sim in another country and you dont wish to carry 2 phones, or see why you should.
Re: ahhh, but...
wiredup said:
I would contend that although the owner no longer has the phone and has sold it, he is in fact meeting the subsidation requirement by maintaining his contract.
I would also contend or pose the question that what if you broke the phone (by mistake)?
As long as the contract period is still upheld by the original owner, than the provider has no right to hold the unlock code of the now, transferred phone. That's why there are cancellation fees and long-term contracts.
JS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course there IS mate.
Because under UK law, the network is within the law to with-hold the code to the actual contract holder, never mind the person they re-sold the handset on to. (Save for them charging a 'small' admin fee and supplying you with it IF you pay of the equivalent of the remainder of your contract).
So they are WELL within their rights to do what they are doing.
Let's not forget here, we are talking about heavy subsidisation by the networks towards the original handset.
My XDA2 cost £119. With my contract, that will be still only £360 or even less, all told.
i can't even buy an equivalent Pocket PC itself for that sort of money, never mind something as swanky as an expensive XDA2 that would cost loads more.
This is becuase the network is so heavily subsidising the cost of it.
And yet you expect them just to say "certainly sir/madam, with pleasure" when you ask them for an unlock code part way through your contract?
Er yeah, right.
Put it this way, the day they do, is the day our handsets start costing £400 or even £500 WITH A CONTRACT.
Let's be real folks!
Again, im with u Shadamehr :wink: . The networks have every right to deny you the unlock code as technically it is still their phone until the contract is fully paid as the handset is heavily subsidised. the networks would lose a lot if the phone was unlocked out of the box or they gave the code away before the contract was up. As i said previously, why bother complaining to them when there are tools available on this website for unlocking the phone , pre and post update. it is just a waste of time and energy when u can have the code in less time than it would take to get through to them to explain to them why they should giv u the code. im not a phone techy but i followed the instructions on the pre update tool and it worked without problem giving me the code. i put my old Vodafone SIM in and entered the code the tool gave me. it worked without a problem . they obviously arent giving you the code Cathy, so cheat like the rest of us :wink: .
Re: ahhh, but...
Shadamehr said:
wiredup said:
I would contend that although the owner no longer has the phone and has sold it, he is in fact meeting the subsidation requirement by maintaining his contract.
I would also contend or pose the question that what if you broke the phone (by mistake)?
As long as the contract period is still upheld by the original owner, than the provider has no right to hold the unlock code of the now, transferred phone. That's why there are cancellation fees and long-term contracts.
JS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course there IS mate.
Because under UK law, the network is within the law to with-hold the code to the actual contract holder, never mind the person they re-sold the handset on to. (Save for them charging a 'small' admin fee and supplying you with it IF you pay of the equivalent of the remainder of your contract).
So they are WELL within their rights to do what they are doing.
Let's not forget here, we are talking about heavy subsidisation by the networks towards the original handset.
My XDA2 cost £119. With my contract, that will be still only £360 or even less, all told.
i can't even buy an equivalent Pocket PC itself for that sort of money, never mind something as swanky as an expensive XDA2 that would cost loads more.
This is becuase the network is so heavily subsidising the cost of it.
And yet you expect them just to say "certainly sir/madam, with pleasure" when you ask them for an unlock code part way through your contract?
Er yeah, right.
Put it this way, the day they do, is the day our handsets start costing £400 or even £500 WITH A CONTRACT.
Let's be real folks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shadamehr,
Clearly you do not understand. Let's suppose: As you stated, the phone would normally be 360, but since the network subsidize the phone, they sell it for 199. Fair enough. I know I am responsible for a contract term of 1 year. Done.
I have later sold the phone after just 3 months. I am STILL responsible for the one year contract... still paying back their "subsidation!" So, what the BIG deal whether I still own the phone or not--the contract obligations are still being met!... own the phone or not.
Like I said before, WHAT IF I broke the phone? What's the difference, I am still obligated to continue the contract--phone or no phone! AND, they still get their SUBSIDATION!
Geez... and, it's no different in USA!
Don't be so bloody stupid.
No one ever said it doesn't HAPPEN. Or are you blind?
What I CLEARLY said is that just because it goes on, unspoken, quite regular, doesn't help one little bit when it comes to wanting an unlock code from the network provider within year one.
May I suggest you re-read my post again?
And PLEASE - if you are in the USA, dont make the mistake of assuming that things must automatically be the same.
If you buy a car on H.P. (slightly different, admittedly), then you CANNOT automatically sell that car on in the UK, if you are still paying back the H.P. on it, and to do so can be illegal. That is a simple given fact that most people in the UK know about - so please don't assume for one second that things have to be the same.
If you want to settle this definitively, then feel free to ring OFCOM, and then post your response here for us to share. But I offer you don't need to, as I already posted what the situation is in the UK.
Besides, let me end by saying as LOUD as I can, as you seem to have missed it...
The day that the networks start giving out Unlock codes within the first 12 months, is the day our handsets suddenly cost 100% more money to obtain, even WITH a contract included.
YOU might want that mate...
But us sensible sorts in the rest of the world surely DON'T want to see an average cost increase of at least £100 on an XDA2 for example, just to cover those people who want an unlock code from the start.
There is a method already in existance for getting a phone network free...
It's called BUYING SIM FREE/UNLOCKED. And if you are going to tell me that it costs MUCH MORE to buy it that way, as opposed to on a contract, now why on earth might that be I wonder... now let me think...?
Oh dear me - not because on contract the networks heavily subsidise them by any chance - well there you go - would you look at that!
Sorry for being flippant, but isn't that what I already said in my post, and I now find I am repeating it here...
(And as an EDIT to this post, as I realised it hasn't sufficiently covered your post, let me remind you that one little detail - no matter whether you DO continue to pay your bills in respect of it, as the original owner. UNTIL the subsidisation period is met, even with you still happily paying for a phone you sold, then the networks do not give out the unlock code, and are within their rights under UK law to do so - so your argument has no merit, or productive outcome anyway - it doesn't make a jot of difference to the new owner anyway, until YOU have paid your 12 months - which is also covered in my post).
Shadamehr said:
Don't be so bloody stupid.
No one ever said it doesn't HAPPEN. Or are you blind?
What I CLEARLY said is that just because it goes on, unspoken, quite regular, doesn't help one little bit when it comes to wanting an unlock code from the network provider within year one.
May I suggest you re-read my post again?
And PLEASE - if you are in the USA, dont make the mistake of assuming that things must automatically be the same.
If you buy a car on H.P. (slightly different, admittedly), then you CANNOT automatically sell that car on in the UK, if you are still paying back the H.P. on it, and to do so can be illegal. That is a simple given fact that most people in the UK know about - so please don't assume for one second that things have to be the same.
If you want to settle this definitively, then feel free to ring OFCOM, and then post your response here for us to share. But I offer you don't need to, as I already posted what the situation is in the UK.
Besides, let me end by saying as LOUD as I can, as you seem to have missed it...
The day that the networks start giving out Unlock codes within the first 12 months, is the day our handsets suddenly cost 100% more money to obtain, even WITH a contract included.
YOU might want that mate...
But us sensible sorts in the rest of the world surely DON'T want to see an average cost increase of at least £100 on an XDA2 for example, just to cover those people who want an unlock code from the start.
There is a method already in existance for getting a phone network free...
It's called BUYING SIM FREE/UNLOCKED. And if you are going to tell me that it costs MUCH MORE to buy it that way, as opposed to on a contract, now why on earth might that be I wonder... now let me think...?
Oh dear me - not because on contract the networks heavily subsidise them by any chance - well there you go - would you look at that!
Sorry for being flippant, but isn't that what I already said in my post, and I now find I am repeating it here...
(And as an EDIT to this post, as I realised it hasn't sufficiently covered your post, let me remind you that one little detail - no matter whether you DO continue to pay your bills in respect of it, as the original owner. UNTIL the subsidisation period is met, even with you still happily paying for a phone you sold, then the networks do not give out the unlock code, and are within their rights under UK law to do so - so your argument has no merit, or productive outcome anyway - it doesn't make a jot of difference to the new owner anyway, until YOU have paid your 12 months - which is also covered in my post).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The debate was a discussion of whether network should indeed allow unlock codes to be made available before the contract term--of which I replied.
My comments addressed your arrogant, definitive statements surrounding why carriers do not release unlock codes. That is, and what you believe to be, a dependency between contracts and subsidation. However, my opinion was simply the two are mutually exclusive.
Law is the law. While you might prefer subsidation and being locked into a carrier, others may prefer the contractless freedom--of which, some are available.
In addition, I think your condescending, rude and utterly poor communication skills are of an entirely new thread. I suggest a filter between your brain and keyboard as clearly your intuition to write without consideration is overwhelmingly powerful.
It is simply a discussion.
Best regards,
JS
Mmm - I've spent seven years as a die hard internet user, from forums, to newsgroups, to chat rooms and all in between.
I learned a LONG time ago, that the rudest, most arrogant and obnoxious posters are never the brainless ones, but rather, just like you so emphatically prove, the ones that try and hide their attacks behind smooth words, and flowing language.
Consequently, I'll grant you one thing mate... You probably the rudest and most offensive to post to me, in a wee while.
Another thing I learned a long time ago, is not to bother arguing.
I will simply say, the post, the entire thread, is there for all to see, and more importantly, all to judge as they see fit.
Whilst I have no reservation in saying this thread is indeed one of my more flippant posts, compared to the help I try and chip in with round here, I have no suspicions whatsoever that I will be the one judged to be the perpertrator round here - after all, I merely pointed things out. Its not MY fault that you don't LIKE what I had to report. Hey, I never even said that I LIKED it either - I'm merely messenger, pointing out a few home truths.
And not letting you get away with it that easily, I would just remind you that once again, if people DO wish to prevail themselves of a handset that is NOT network locked, the facility already exists for them to do so, and its called BUYING SIM FREE.
Or did you miss that yet again.
Making it as clear as possible for you, in case you haven't worked out yet that I have NO reason to defend the networks per se, nevertheless mate, if a Network heavily subsidises a handset, provided you agree to stick with them 12 months, not tariff change until after 4 (or 6) months, and not get an unlock code until after the twelve months, then it couldn't be simpler mate...
You either take it, or you leave it.
But if you go into it with open eyes, as you surely should, then you have no right, or place, or reason, to later post in here that you think its unfair that the network won't give you an unlock code in the first twelve months.
If you don't like that idea, you DON'T take out the contract mate.
ITS THAT SIMPLE.
And if you want to, you can then buy a SIM FREE handset.
But please, don't complain about the cost being too high then. Of course it is - that is the REAL price.
The price you are used to, on contract, is a heavily subsidised one, available to you provided you AGREE to certain conditions etc.
Note that word "agree". Because it means that once you accept it, then there is little point or purpose to whingeing on later, about something that you, as a consumer, of your own volition and free will, AGREED to.
Now please, my Email address should be in my profile.
If you want to flame me or troll me anymore - by all means do so by Email, and keep your incesant ramblings OFF this board.
Like I said - both our comments are there for all to see.
More importantly, they are there for others to judge.
I'm more than happy to let the members judge me.
I trust you are the same.
Now leave it please. (Or rather, troll and flame me as much as you feel the need to, but use my email in future instead of boring everyone else in this forum).
Shadamehr said:
Mmm - I've spent seven years as a die hard internet user, from forums, to newsgroups, to chat rooms and all in between.
I learned a LONG time ago, that the rudest, most arrogant and obnoxious posters are never the brainless ones, but rather, just like you so emphatically prove, the ones that try and hide their attacks behind smooth words, and flowing language.
Consequently, I'll grant you one thing mate... You probably the rudest and most offensive to post to me, in a wee while.
Another thing I learned a long time ago, is not to bother arguing.
I will simply say, the post, the entire thread, is there for all to see, and more importantly, all to judge as they see fit.
Whilst I have no reservation in saying this thread is indeed one of my more flippant posts, compared to the help I try and chip in with round here, I have no suspicions whatsoever that I will be the one judged to be the perpertrator round here - after all, I merely pointed things out. Its not MY fault that you don't LIKE what I had to report. Hey, I never even said that I LIKED it either - I'm merely messenger, pointing out a few home truths.
And not letting you get away with it that easily, I would just remind you that once again, if people DO wish to prevail themselves of a handset that is NOT network locked, the facility already exists for them to do so, and its called BUYING SIM FREE.
Or did you miss that yet again.
Making it as clear as possible for you, in case you haven't worked out yet that I have NO reason to defend the networks per se, nevertheless mate, if a Network heavily subsidises a handset, provided you agree to stick with them 12 months, not tariff change until after 4 (or 6) months, and not get an unlock code until after the twelve months, then it couldn't be simpler mate...
You either take it, or you leave it.
But if you go into it with open eyes, as you surely should, then you have no right, or place, or reason, to later post in here that you think its unfair that the network won't give you an unlock code in the first twelve months.
If you don't like that idea, you DON'T take out the contract mate.
ITS THAT SIMPLE.
And if you want to, you can then buy a SIM FREE handset.
But please, don't complain about the cost being too high then. Of course it is - that is the REAL price.
The price you are used to, on contract, is a heavily subsidised one, available to you provided you AGREE to certain conditions etc.
Note that word "agree". Because it means that once you accept it, then there is little point or purpose to whingeing on later, about something that you, as a consumer, of your own volition and free will, AGREED to.
Now please, my Email address should be in my profile.
If you want to flame me or troll me anymore - by all means do so by Email, and keep your incesant ramblings OFF this board.
Like I said - both our comments are there for all to see.
More importantly, they are there for others to judge.
I'm more than happy to let the members judge me.
I trust you are the same.
Now leave it please. (Or rather, troll and flame me as much as you feel the need to, but use my email in future instead of boring everyone else in this forum).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mr. Shadamehr,
Please don't patronize me with your comments like, "If you want to flame me or troll me anymore - by all means do so by Email, and keep your incesant ramblings OFF this board." If you review your postings above, it is your posts that "ramble" (i.e. are the longest!)
Last time I checked, freedom of speech is well within the bounds of this board. Your decisive statements, most of which are opinion-driven, are your position only. I'm not sure anyone complained of the cost of the PDA's--if you review the posts, no one actually did. I have plenty of income, so cost isn't an issue for me... so, why would you assume it does?
And, may I say, that this conversation will last as long as it needs to; again, isn't freedom awesome?
All I'm saying is: we agree law is the law. The debate lies in whether it is fair or not (personal opinions); as consumers, we have the ability to persuade the industry.
I'll refrain from the "are you STUPID mate?," "Or did you miss that yet again" statements as they are useless, condescending remarks that provide no value to the debate.
At what point do you believe you're more intelligent than the rest of us?
JS
Freedom of speech is indeed a truly wonderful thing.
But YOU were the one that said:
"In addition, I think your condescending, rude and utterly poor communication skills are of an entirely new thread."
Implying this should be kept well off the board, or at least, THIS thread!
But NOW you are saying:
"And, may I say, that this conversation will last as long as it needs to; again, isn't freedom awesome? "
I'm sorry, there's not a lot I or anyone else can do to help you, if you yourself are unsure as to what you want, and change your mind to suit, as and when you feel like it.
This whole thread was about Networks with-holding the Unlock code within the first twelve months.
I have just CHECKED again, and my first post on this topic, was an indication of the current position, based on my OWN issues I had, just like Cathy, and what OFTEL (as it was then), informed me was the law, and the issues around it.
I posted that information here, and as such, was only the messenger for what I am all too aware is unpopular knowledge. Nevertheless, I was nothing more than messenger.
Because that information was not popular reading however, you took it on board to somewhat hold me to blame, or at very least to turn the argument around onto me.
Suit yourself.
I end, after having demonstrated how you blow hot and cold in the same debate (a frightening quality indeed), simply by referring the Learned Gentleman to my last post, where I said:
"The members, ultimately will decide who they feel is right, and who is in the wrong..." (or similar)...
And in that respect nothing has changed.
Now, finally, you DID originally say you wanted this kept off the board, so I implore you to do so now.
But of course, you being you, you later contradicted yourself by then saying you will keep this going as long as you want, so I doubt you will leave it now.
Funny how you change your mind to suit yourself best.
But give the matter thought, because I really can't be bothered. You see:
"I learned a long time ago never to argue overly long with fools. All they ever do is bring you down to THEIR level, and of course once they manage that, they then go on to beat you with their vast experience over you they have in that role..."
And in an effort to reach closure, can I make something clear where your WHOLE debate is wrong...?
You say:
"All I'm saying is: we agree law is the law. The debate lies in whether it is fair or not (personal opinions); as consumers, we have the ability to persuade the industry."
Forgive me for completely correcting you...
This is Cathy's post.
And she called it:
"Are O2 acting legally in with-holding the unlock code"
Clear as day, a question on whether the issue was legallly correct or not. Nothing at all, as you seek to save grace by now implying, about the relative morals of it. I can't even see where that aspect creeps in other than your OWN posts.
And my response, pointing out the LEGAL position, was thus therefore a completely correct, and completely appropriate response to her thread.
You are therefore completely incorrect in saying this is a thread about the MORALS of it - it was a CLEAR question on the LEGALITIES of it.
If you wish to have a moral debate about the relative rights or wrongs of the netoworks doing this, then I would be HAPPY to join you in such a debate.
But as this would be a NEW aspect, then I would expect an apology from you (which there is no chance I will get), for you completely having wrongly judged me, by saying this debate was already one about morals.
It isn't - please read Cathy's title again.
My response to her, that you so deride and find worthy of argument, was thus totally appropriate - she asked if O2 were acting LEGALLY (it's in the title).
I replied explaining that they were - from my own experinces with OFTEL.
I trust, and I mean this fairly and not conflictory, that you now realise that I had done noting wrong. This was NOT a debate, as you so keep saying, about the MORALS of it.
That post would be entitled:
"Are O2 acting immorally or unreasonably by with-holding the unlock code"
And in that post, your comments would be far more correct then, and appropriate, and I couldn't fault them half as much.
But, er, this is NOT that thread though.
This is the "Are O2 acting LEGALLY..." one.
Sorry for keep repeating it.
Well, that gave me a laugh during lunch time....
Hi,
I've come across individuals who are selling the xda-unlock software on eBay, for personal profit I assume.
I think this is ethically wrong.
Is anyone on the xda-developers forum aware of this?
I am posting this message in the hope that those who agree that this activity of stealing from those developing the software, will e-mail the person (see below) to tell him that what he is doing is wrong and should stop immediately.
Noteyou may have to copy and paste the following hyper-links into your browser's address field for them to work)
See;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=69929&item=5206235467
I tracked the perpetuator down and confronted him with this breach. His response was pretty much "Go away! I can do what I want" The sad thing is, the person has no idea about the software he's selling and is misleading people by telling them that one version (which he has) is suitable for all PDA's.
Here's his e-mail address.
[email protected] , with which he accpets Paypal payments on-line.
And this is his profile on eBay:
http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=mrtrader888&iid=5206235467&frm=284
The odd, brave, eBay traders are complaining about this in the Feedback facility but the feedback system isn't perfect.
See:-
http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayI...val=&page=2&frompage=-1&iid=5206235467&de=off
I hope everyone who appreciates xda-developers.com 's efforts will help stop this person from making money out of their efforts by telling them by e-mail how they feel about it.
technologyfusion.
The only way to deal with this kind of issue is to post an ad every day offering the software for free and directing the people to this site, that way nobody buys from the seller and there is a chance that those directed to the site may donate once they unlock and or upgrade their phone.
The other option is to email every bidder with the details.
I am not a vindictive person, generally, but that email is just begging for about 10,000 newsletters per day. I always believed that educating people is far more effective than punishing them. I think Daily Dumb Question will be a good start for him to explore.
I don't mind people reselling free tools. at the moment they take advantage of poor advertising of our tool.
I now created a wiki page for it, so it will become easier to find for people.
when it rises in google's index, it should become easier to find.
willem
If you're an eBay user, you can send private email to the bidders, warning them that what they are bidding on is available for free. They might not like finding it out after they've already bid, but they will probably appreciate knowing that they shouldn't pay any more for it, and that they can get it right away off the internet. (And if they don't mind a stain on their eBay record for 6 months, they can cancel their bid if it's not too late.)
But surely before bidding on eBay, they should have done their homework. A simple Google search would have found it.
Technically eBay could get you for "bid interference" or some such thing if you emailed users like that, but that won't happen unless they turn around and report you. Be careful, though: in several cases before, when I've given advice to bidders about a bad or misleading piece of merchandise, they've mistaken me for the seller and chewed me out!!! So I don't generally do this unless I'm prepared for an angry response. And I won't go out of my way to do it -- I'll just do it if, say, I was searching for something similar on eBay, and I stumbled across someone's unfortunate bid. ("Think I should warn them? Nah. No good deed goes unpunished.")
Speaking of theft of donations.... Has anyone noticed [deleted]
Being a pda freak, I'm always looking for a better device. Having just sold my JAM, I am inclined to switch to the HTC Universal-based model. However, being unlucky to be based in Kazakhstan (the notorius "Stan"!), I have found it very difficult to talk to the online stores such as eXpansys or MobilePlanet. They simply do not make deliveries to this region.
However, I found this website, www.qtekuk.com which, after I wrote to them, responded that they would be able to deliver to Kazakhstan.
My quesiton is, has anyone dealt/heard of these guys? I need a second opinion before I make a money transfer.
Replies at soonest are much appreciated as I need to make up my mind (there is one guy in town waiting to sell me the item but his price is not as attractive).
Thanks and regards
Try some other sellers too.
Hi I noticed you didn't get answer yet to your question. I can't tell much about that,but my advice would be ,that if you're planning to buy a gadget like that,you could also spend a few extra dollars and actualy call them to make an idea about the company. Also,read throughout the forum and you'll find a lot of sellers especialy in uk from whitch people bought already.
Good luck.
qtekuk.com = SDD
"qtekuk.com" are none other than SmartDevicesDirect. I don't know if they have become the official distributor in the UK, or if the domain and site are just designed to look that way. (qtek.co.uk still redirects to agbglobal, Qtek's parent company).
Search the forum if you want other people's experiences of them (good and bad). Personally I prefer not to put my trust in companies that use mulitple identities, or that charge credit cards up front for stock they haven't got. Plus I hate web sites that play cheesy music as soon as you land on their home page. YM, of course, MV.
Hey striker_69, sorry I missed your post before. I would say don't bother with this firm. £610 is outrageously expensive. You could buy one from someone trustworthy on eBay for around £150-200 LESS than that. Since you are in Kazakhstan you would need to pay via bank transfer probably (a lot of PayPal fraud occurs in Eastern Europe and also in India, Thailand, nigeria, etc as I am sure you are aware).
Hmm, can't really comment, but after seeing that guy on the intro to their site, well, 'I wouldn't buy a used car from him!'
Hope it works out for you
Gareth
hello lads, wish everybody is fine and doin well, ive been doing some intelligence and detective work around around the weired fact that IMEI check are the only guyz around with an unlock solution for the UNIVERSAL.
what i accumilated was kindda weired. according to information gathered from this website and specially from my favourite two super stars (BUZZ lightyear and Mchinegod) those legendary stars got it all fine lolll.
what i found is.
IMEI check has some source in HTC inovations in taiwan.
this source has probably supplied em classified Hardware Software information on how to unlock the Universal.
second speculation is that they also has a source that has unrestricted acess to the IMEI-Unlock code database. and he supplies them the assigned codes for some percentage from every unlock they make.
in both cases there is an insider who must ve supplied critical info on raming this device into the corners.
just for the info, i mentioned before that i had a weired problem and that is i wanted to unlock my MDA pro and T-mobile the netherlands told me that my IMEI doesnt exist in thier database or its not a T-mobile universal varient. however i managed my way in contacting someone in HTC and my honest source tracked my IMEI back to T-mobile the netherlands, i offered this source paying him money to gimme the unlock code but he refused in great honesty and said, the entire HTC cant supply me these codes not for free not for a fee, acoording to a business agreement with the T-Mobile. after a while, i got an email from T-Mobile telling me that they have my Unlock code right now and they are ready to supply me the code for like 70 euros or something,,
that shows that there are some leaks around between HTC and its business partners and, our freiends at IMEI check, has foudn some way to access these leaks and make some money.
wish i explained my theory
best regards
shady
why dont they offer then an online unlock... you send them imei number and money... they send you unlock code....
there is an other way they do it
€70 is much less than I was first asked for to have an Unlock code. It was more like €175, and that was for a little Samsung phone before T-Mobile took over One2One.
After you've been using the device for 1 year, your first year contract is finished. After this first year contract, the Universal belongs to you - NOT T-Mobile - and you are therefore legally entitled to do anything you want to with it, including unlocking it. T-Mobile CANNOT legally deny you this right - if they could, the central IMEI databases which disallow network access from stolen devices would simply disallow access to other networks from your IMEI.
thas exactly the point
asking for physical acess to the machine while still sayint that they will not open it and hat all stuff will be made through cable. sooo i think this provides perfect diversion.
Yeah, I think I said in an earlier post that the whole thing about 'sending your Universal in because physical access is required' is a load of bullcrap. It's as shady said, they have an insider at HTC which really makes me question the ethics of their dealings in the first place. I don't think I like these guys very much.
I think you forgot something US (imei-check):
We killed JFK, we are green and we come from Mars. Somewhere on other forum I saw that someone says that we like to collect the MDA PRO's. Yes we love to swim in them . We are aliens and we like that.
These declarations are as true as your conspiracy theory.
WE HAVE NO connection with HTC or any other manufacture or operator. We are just a bunch of programmers which like to work till late not to stay and see if anyone comes with anything for free for us.
This forum should be called Warez and freeware searchers since here all you can read is where to download such software and were to get such thing for free. Only a handful of people from here does developing, rest just a bunch of beggars (sorry for the previos spelling mistake, but hey I'm not a native speaker ).
Florin Mandache
Director of MIGsofT LTD (imei-check.co.uk)
Imei Check
I resent your comments regarding the rest of us no-hopers being 'baggers'.
If it wasn't for forums like this you guys wouldn't have any business cos the vast majority of us would have returned our pda phones due to lack of network support.
I have no qualms paying for unlocking but the networks take the mick by making you wait weeks for the unlock codes.
I dare say you guys have learnt from this forum and if you didnt charge 50 squid for a universal unlock code you would get more respect.
We all have a part to play mate so just remember this:
Without consumers(or baggers as you like to call us) you would have to latch onto somting else so give us a break !!!
i vote with jonboy. if u dont respect this forum why are you on it,,, i have no idea actually + if you think my claims are wrong, there is no need to insult all of us, my friend the way you answered is a hard proof that at least some of my claims have taken a byte at the neck of the truth.
anyway thanks for calling us baggers, but again as jonboy says, these baggers are the guyz making business for you and giving you money. so i wont call em baggers cuz if its not for them you would ve been a bagger.
you IMEI guyz are asking for astaggering 74 E to unlock well i have to mention that T-mobile unlocked my MDA pro for 70 euros which is still 4euros less than what you asked + i dotn have to send it all the way to another country or stuff.
again thanks dear brother for insulting the forum and its people.
best regards
shady
florin_m said:
I think you forgot something US (imei-check):
We killed JFK, we are green and we come from Mars. Somewhere on other forum I saw that someone says that we like to collect the MDA PRO's. Yes we love to swim in them . We are aliens and we like that.
These declarations are as true as your conspiracy theory.
WE HAVE NO connection with HTC or any other manufacture or operator. We are just a bunch of programmers which like to work till late not to stay and see if anyone comes with anything for free for us.
This forum should be called Warez and freeware searchers since here all you can read is where to download such software and were to get such thing for free. Only a handful of people from here does developing, rest just a bunch of beggars (sorry for the previos spelling mistake, but hey I'm not a native speaker ).
Florin Mandache
Director of MIGsofT LTD (imei-check.co.uk)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Florin, you are a fool.
'nuff said.
florin_m said:
I think you forgot something US (imei-check):
We killed JFK, we are green and we come from Mars. Somewhere on other forum I saw that someone says that we like to collect the MDA PRO's. Yes we love to swim in them . We are aliens and we like that.
Florin Mandache
Director of MIGsofT LTD (imei-check.co.uk)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you really who you say you are? If you are, you must be about ten years old because that statement is so immature, not fit for a grown mature adult.
BTW, where are all the warez on this site? I haven't seen any, or am I just blind, naive or both? We all visit this forum so that we can "hack" some the system parameters of our devices to enhance them and give them "personalities" we like or prefer to have.
actually, i think this florin is just a very erogant man, i still am feeling offended that he called us beggers. do everybody really has to be a developer. well mr wiered headless brainless, when u go to a Dr to take out the permenant disease out of your head do u become a begger, when you go to psyciatrist to take the wiered erogance of your soul do u become a begger, so if you think that when u go to a pro that well help you get rid of all of these wiered stuff in your miniature nature that will make you a bagger, then we might also be considered bagger. and by the way plz when u speak to people again try to get first some schooling second learn some ethics
again lads, just think deeply if our ideas on this forum about how IMEI check got thier hands on the unlocking codes are wrong, what would piss thier boss off, hehehe if someone said soemthing thas not right about me i wouldnt really start a fight on someones wrong calims, but if he uncovered my business then ill fight to recover it back, even by insulting people heheh
best regards
shady
shadykw said:
my friend the way you answered is a hard proof that at least some of my claims have taken a byte at the neck of the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you lost me here - why you are so sure you are right just because someone responded to you? No offence, but what you said is questionable in the first place... and i simply cannot understand what has the pricing got to do with this? it can be 100 euros - so what?? WHY are you so unhappy?
and generally he was right, most people do not produce anything new for the device, the max we do is copy-paste. Its the truth - why are you complaining - what have you done?
btw, i have got nothing to do with them, never used the service and do not know anyone there in any way... so that you will not say i am from their company too, just because i have a different opinion to yours. And it will not prove that you are 100% right - i hope this is clear at least.
im sorry guyz, i aint no dectaort here and ieve never said im right i just speculated some stuff, and to be honest as i said, i have no proof, its just speculation, and im not complaining about the price the market is open, u dont like someones service, take another. and i have no offense against anybody as well i havent attacked him, it was just someone that began attacking all the forum not me only. and again, im not so sure and im not running an invistigation here buddy, and im usually dotn speak so much here in the forum, but i just dotn wanna get kicked whenever im gonna say soemthing someone is gonan call me a bagger. and yes not everybody is doign something cuz so simply not everybody is a developer, does the fact that im in another field rather than IT or software development must make me shut up and not even talk.
well guyz im sorry anyway if i attacked any body or offended anyone without intentions
again im sorry for that
best regards
shady
igs said:
shadykw said:
my friend the way you answered is a hard proof that at least some of my claims have taken a byte at the neck of the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you lost me here - why you are so sure you are right just because someone responded to you? No offence, but what you said is questionable in the first place... and i simply cannot understand what has the pricing got to do with this? it can be 100 euros - so what?? WHY are you so unhappy?
and generally he was right, most people do not produce anything new for the device, the max we do is copy-paste. Its the truth - why are you complaining - what have you done?
btw, i have got nothing to do with them, never used the service and do not know anyone there in any way... so that you will not say i am from their company too, just because i have a different opinion to yours. And it will not prove that you are 100% right - i hope this is clear at least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said that man
The rest of you n00b-muppets need to shut the hell up. I've known Florin for quite some time now and back in the early days he was of great help to the Windows Mobile community and still is today. To be quite honest, he's right, the majority of you are all beggers. You all want something for nothing. Why should someone break their back to make YOU happy? What have YOU done for the community? Why should anyone spend their precious time helping YOU when all YOU do is leech information?
You want the "truth" behind imei-check? They spend alot of time working on devices to get them unlocked. Sometimes they kill the devices. Said devices cost money. Then when all the hard work is over and they start to earn a reward from their work, some jumped up little prick decides to reverse engineer the software and sell it on ebay. Thats why you have to send Universal's in to them.
I would like to react to this
that shows that there are some leaks around between HTC and its business partners and, our freiends at IMEI check, has foudn some way to access these leaks and make some money.
And please do not take this like "racism" or anything else.
HTC is a Taiwanese Company POINT ! In Taiwan China Korea (Much difficult in Japan) Money is the most important thing ! I was living Before in HK, and has often be oblige to deal with the mainland but the things is that Money can buy anything over there or allow you a lot of things. I had last year a "Weird" problem with a Taiwanese PC, Pocket PC, smartphone manufacturer. Well I was dealing for a potential of 300 Units (PC) and things were going well at the begning until... they bypass me and contacted my client to make business with them.
This is how things work there and will always work.
If you take for example Korea... nobody follow any contract, in Fact in business matter it works like this, you firs sign the contract, and then you discuss about the term of the contract. If for example you want to "punish" a Korean company you just has to force them to follow a contract (this is the worst punition for them)
Once again, there are no racism in my story I am living in Asia since a long time now, my wife is Korean/Japanese and I had the chance to live, before I met my wife, with a Chinese lady (Be quiet on this one ok )
Absolute bollocks :roll:
Did you even read the rest of the posts here or did you just read the first one and reply straight away?
How exactly does this show that there are leaks? Where's your proof? One dumbass hatches a theory and you take it as gospel :roll:
nedge2k said:
Absolute bollocks :roll:
Did you even read the rest of the posts here or did you just read the first one and reply straight away?
How exactly does this show that there are leaks? Where's your proof? One dumbass hatches a theory and you take it as gospel :roll:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just share experience, that all
hey guyz, again ive said there is no proof these are just speculations, and again im not a damn developer, as far as i remeber ihavent insulted anyone, would you plz choose a better language describing the people on this forum,, if you think that we are all beggars, fine dont be around us, but plz just stop this insulting. and why are my words so painfull, i just said what i though nothing more. specially that in various threads in this forum, some guyz managed to get the codes from HTC so im not totally inventing a story, i think prooving me wrong would be much easier that saying all of this, jesus why is insulting so easy
florin_m
A year ago i unlocked more than 20 phones (s100 and 9090) with imei-check's help so don't say we all beggars here.
Would there be an online service soon to unlock the MDA-PRO? Because sending your MDA to England isn't accepltable for everyone and i really need to use the service quite often.
@florin_m
hi florin,
i seriously doubt, that you've programmed an unlocker for Universal, just few days after it was released to the market.
Either you have/had:
1. engineering prototypes with certain bootloader functions opened
2. access to special service SD cards
3. bootloader passwords
4. access to IMEI/lock database
i'd say 2. or 4. is right
BTW, why do you call your company IMEI-CHECK?
Wouldn't it be more apropriate to call it unlock-programming ?
IMEI-CHECK is invoking a vision of checking IMEI against a list or such...
buzz
Hi this is my first post. I'm looking at buying the Fire TV stick but my TV has no HDMI socket. My TV is a Panasonic Viera TH-42PE30 and I'm wanting to know what converters will work with this TV and the fire TV stick. I've been told that some converters haven't worked for some people. Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated as I'm looking at purchasing both the fire TV and the converter together.
They make HDMI to DVI and VGA cables should work fine. That's how my PC is running at the moment HDMI out of video card to DVI on my monitor. The HDMI port went bad
Keep in mind that there might be problems with the HDCP copy protection of the HDMI output. If it´s activated within the FireTV many converter may delivered only a black picture on VGA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
edit removed wrong links provided.
No comments about quality, because those things have to do a signal conversion. Its not a simple "cable", all of them are doing signal processing.
Also you might run into problems with HDMIs copy protection.
No comments about quality, because those things have to do a signal conversion. Its not a simple "cable", all of them are doing signal processing.
Also you might run into problems with HDMIs copy protection.[/QUOTE]
So do you think both of those might work?
How likely do you think it is, that I spend the 10 dollars and the effort of hooking up the Fire TV to a VGA port, just to figure out which parts of the video output amazon encrypts with HDCP?
Also - there is a hint in there what you should google next to find out how android devices usually are set up in regards to a certain form of copy protection.
Or you just spend the 10 USD and then come back to tell others - highly unlikely concept, trying something and then reporting back... Nobody does it on social platforms today. Not enough upvotes. people care about the occasional insight into a field, because it makes them feel like they are diverse in their interests, but really, the second time around, it already feels somewhat old. Ask into the aether, wait for the Answer to come back. No filter, no quality control, just random noise. And if you feel like you really want a more valid answer, just venture out and try to exploit a tech community. XDA made a video for this demographic once.
Also, just as a tip - there is a reason that I cant tell how the image quality on these things would be today - even in third world countries - and I mean this in no way demeaning - the proliferation of HDMI enabled TVs is high enough that they start to reach lower income households. Thanks to offbrands. There is absolutely no market anymore for those converters. Thats why they now are in the 10 dollar impulse buy category.
Now you want buying advice on that... Ask your walmart sales rep often which 10USD coffee is the best? Ask some one who worked at those specially retailers, who now go bankrupt, because they were in the business of hiring people who understood what they were selling first, and were salesmen only after that? Then buy it on amazon. You know - the difference between Rhine capitalism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Albert ) and whatever form americans are living in contrast to that today.
The economy in an internet forum is really not made for such requests. You bring nothing, you've invested nothing, you take value, you learn nothing that would prevent you from needing personal treatment the next time around, then you repeat the process whenever another need comes along. You exploited others when this still was a job they were paid for by companies - now you are exploiting nameless random people on the internet.
Face it - at least to some extend. Or be happy with the "there be cables" answer, because - there is no middle ground. The economy to provide you with informed and detailed answers simply does not exist.
Do something for yourself, show engagement, search before you ask - and dont fake it, because it just makes you a person who now knowingly abuses others for their benefit.
(And please follow, click subscribe and become a premium member of my one person brand. I get 20% of the proceedings. - You know, the new type of artist, we currently all like so much. Clickingly.)
---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------
Also, this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/help/to-disable-hdcp-t2888934
Thank god for copy protection.
edit: And if you are really in need for a solution, read this: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com...magic_intensity_ps3_owners_read_here_101.html
I can sum it up for you. Just buying a cable that says HDMI to VGA will not work. You have to actually have a converter. Converters for what you are wanting to do usually cost around $40 minmum. The cables are usually used in conjunction with PCI type converters. PCI type converters will not work with the Fire TV since they only work with PCs, so you will need a converter that plugs into an electric outlet.
Actually - I learned something today.
I learned, that amazon.com now does freely sell devices that strip HDCP out of the signal into the american market. Which of course is illegal.
So search for hdmi vga dac hdcp
and read the product descriptions and or comments.
Whatever those boxes cost, they cost 16+ USD from an asia based vendor. Also - because they are this cheap in production (it doesn't count that some vendors sell them for tripple their price), your monitor better supports 1080p natively. With the correct scaling (picture not squished or cut off) and everything.
According to a german amazon post by a customer who talked to their technical support, the FIre TV (not the stick) needs at least a HDCP 1.3 compatibility - at least this was suggested by an answer regarding potential sound issues.
So whatever device you end up buying in the end, it should have the ability to strip HDCP 1.3.
Also - Im suddenly much more forthcoming, because I accidentally, initially provided two links to devices that will not fit your questions profile (just looked for the right connectors (male/female), didnt read that they still werent dac (Digital to Analog converters - which is what you need)) - so I'm in "making good" mode. Because if you are talking as harshly as I was, imho you have to be correct down to the last details.
Wow, thank you all so much. I'm not really a tech guy but I can tell you I'm very appreciative of all the information provided. I will have a look at some converters and let you know how I get on. Thank you again
Its just a very unfruitful question - because the real answer is "buy something that has a HDMI port, everything does - nowadays". The followup answer is, to achieve this your way, you need something that converts the signal. Which is not just "buying a cable" - this thing has to have a chip in it. The follow up answer to that is, that those devices commercially only make sense anymore, if they are dirt cheap, which might lead to signal quality issues (also, potential scaling issues).
The next problem is the copy protection layer (HDCP 1.3) which has to be removed so you can even convert the digital HDMI signal to analog VGA. This wasnt always possible. Also - I would not openly talk about this information, if not amazon themselves were suddenly selling those devices in their store. So I'm choosing just not to share links.
At which point you also have to take into account the different versions of HDCP (because the industry doesnt like broken copy protection standards and writes new ones) and which one you have to circumvent.
And what for? First - copy protection at a point in the signal path, where currently only game streamers rip anything. And second - all that for something that increasingly even woulndt be an issue anymore in third world markets. Because everything nowadays has a HDMI port (- supporting or stripping HDCP). So this is all theoretical, and practical for almost no one in here. Which is why "should I buy this one, or that one" is even harder to answer.
harlekinrains said:
Its just a very unfruitful question - because the real answer is "buy something that has a HDMI port, everything does - nowadays". The followup answer is, to achieve this your way, you need something that converts the signal. Which is not just "buying a cable" - this thing has to have a chip in it. The follow up answer to that is, that those devices commercially only make sense anymore, if they are dirt cheap, which might lead to signal quality issues (also, potential scaling issues).
The next problem is the copy protection layer (HDCP 1.3) which has to be removed so you can even convert the digital HDMI signal to analog VGA. This wasnt always possible. Also - I would not openly talk about this information, if not amazon themselves were suddenly selling those devices in their store. So I'm choosing just not to share links.
At which point you also have to take into account the different versions of HDCP (because the industry doesnt like broken copy protection standards and writes new ones) and which one you have to circumvent.
And what for? First - copy protection at a point in the signal path, where currently only game streamers rip anything. And second - all that for something that increasingly even woulndt be an issue anymore in third world markets. Because everything nowadays has a HDMI port (- supporting or stripping HDCP). So this is all theoretical, and practical for almost no one in here. Which is why "should I buy this one, or that one" is even harder to answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate its not easy to answer but thank you for trying to do anyway. You've really helped me out so thanks! I'll be sure to let you know how I get on.
Does not work. Tried it. You need a converter that has its own power source, cable or other so called converter powered by USB will not work. You need something like this:
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B00AQMZI0Y/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AGP6GC0L2FALW
Most cost effective one I've seen with good reviews.
I'very tried a few others that have not worked which is why I'm confident in what I'm saying. Good thing about AMAZON, hassle free return if it doesn't work.
To reiterate again, I wouldnt have answered the question properly, If I hadn't indadvertedly messed up and linked to two wrong items in the shortform statement. (The hints toward solving the problems were right, the links were wrong.)
I dont care how much this helped your case specifically . I simply dont accept a simple line of heartfelt gratitude as "currency". Is it decent - sure. I'm just not motivated by it at all. Not before I read the question, not after the fact.
And if you feel the need to emphasize your gratitude again I have clearly done something wrong here - my motivation was to show, that it is not ok, to drag a picture perfect example of an egoistically motivated request into a public forum, without any research or intellectual investment on your part - and then expect a short solution delivered to you on a platter.
The investment of people who are clued in is so much larger on their part, and is almost solely concentrated on you personally - without any chance, that this will help many others, that it becomes necessary to demand work from you as well. Not gratitude. You acquiring information yourself and therefore rethinking the approach of exploiting the community.
This goes differently, when a community is highly active and you have many people reitering the snippets of information they just learned and helping each other out, because it is encouraging for them. Which is by the way what support forums sell to advertisers (Context matters).
See the difference in the approach, see the resulting difference in motivation.
If you dont want to learn or reciprocate yourself - do what the last poster did, and exploit a company that factors in consumer support/returns into a business model. That way it can at least be measured by capitalism as a social structure.
What you are doing is effectively destroying social structures. You take all efforts that go into problem solving, and give back no value in return. Again, gratitude does not count.
And by the way - you are lucky and in the end some one else had the very same problem and had to solve it for themselves. When they have done so - they put in the work for themselves (in this case by exploiting a companies return policy), and sharing doesnt take much effort on top of it. But looking for others to solve your problem - not parts of it, just the problem entirely - is a different animal. My motivation then is to first refute the false answers that come out of the "well I dont care who..." "well I dont care so much about how either, but I have heard" exchanges that follow. At the end of which no one even cares so much about if its factually correct or not - or even to mention the outcome.
I made an error at that stage.
And this is the only reason, why I have become this active in here - because suddenly it potentially impacted my reputation negatively.
The problem with information ecosystems is, that information nowadays is practically free, but filtering and researching it - is not. Always try to remember that.
harlekinrains said:
To reiterate again, I wouldnt have answered the question properly, If I hadn't indadvertedly messed up and linked to two wrong items in the shortform statement. (The hints toward solving the problems were right, the links were wrong.)
I dont care how much this helped your case specifically . I simply dont accept a simple line of heartfelt gratitude as "currency". Is it decent - sure. I'm just not motivated by it at all. Not before I read the question, not after the fact.
And if you feel the need to emphasize your gratitude again I have clearly done something wrong here - my motivation was to show, that it is not ok, to drag a picture perfect example of an egoistically motivated request into a public forum, without any research or intellectual investment on your part - and then expect a short solution delivered to you on a platter.
The investment of people who are clued in is so much larger on their part, and is almost solely concentrated on you personally - without any chance, that this will help many others, that it becomes necessary to demand work from you as well. Not gratitude. You acquiring information yourself and therefore rethinking the approach of exploiting the community.
This goes differently, when a community is highly active and you have many people reitering the snippets of information they just learned and helping each other out, because it is encouraging for them. Which is by the way what support forums sell to advertisers (Context matters).
See the difference in the approach, see the resulting difference in motivation.
If you dont want to learn or reciprocate yourself - do what the last poster did, and exploit a company that factors in consumer support/returns into a business model. That way it can at least be measured by capitalism as a social structure.
What you are doing is effectively destroying social structures. You take all efforts that go into problem solving, and give back no value in return. Again, gratitude does not count.
And by the way - you are lucky and in the end some one else had the very same problem and had to solve it for themselves. When they have done so - they put in the work for themselves (in this case by exploiting a companies return policy), and sharing doesnt take much effort on top of it. But looking for others to solve your problem - not parts of it, just the problem entirely - is a different animal. My motivation then is to first refute the false answers that come out of the "well I dont care who..." "well I dont care so much about how either, but I have heard" exchanges that follow. At the end of which no one even cares so much about if its factually correct or not - or even to mention the outcome.
I made an error at that stage.
And this is the only reason, why I have become this active in here - because suddenly it potentially impacted my reputation negatively.
The problem with information ecosystems is, that information nowadays is practically free, but filtering and researching it - is not. Always try to remember that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clearly you have too much time on your hands.
harlekinrains said:
To reiterate again, I wouldnt have answered the question properly, If I hadn't indadvertedly messed up and linked to two wrong items in the shortform statement. (The hints toward solving the problems were right, the links were wrong.)
I dont care how much this helped your case specifically . I simply dont accept a simple line of heartfelt gratitude as "currency". Is it decent - sure. I'm just not motivated by it at all. Not before I read the question, not after the fact.
And if you feel the need to emphasize your gratitude again I have clearly done something wrong here - my motivation was to show, that it is not ok, to drag a picture perfect example of an egoistically motivated request into a public forum, without any research or intellectual investment on your part - and then expect a short solution delivered to you on a platter.
The investment of people who are clued in is so much larger on their part, and is almost solely concentrated on you personally - without any chance, that this will help many others, that it becomes necessary to demand work from you as well. Not gratitude. You acquiring information yourself and therefore rethinking the approach of exploiting the community.
This goes differently, when a community is highly active and you have many people reitering the snippets of information they just learned and helping each other out, because it is encouraging for them. Which is by the way what support forums sell to advertisers (Context matters).
See the difference in the approach, see the resulting difference in motivation.
If you dont want to learn or reciprocate yourself - do what the last poster did, and exploit a company that factors in consumer support/returns into a business model. That way it can at least be measured by capitalism as a social structure.
What you are doing is effectively destroying social structures. You take all efforts that go into problem solving, and give back no value in return. Again, gratitude does not count.
And by the way - you are lucky and in the end some one else had the very same problem and had to solve it for themselves. When they have done so - they put in the work for themselves (in this case by exploiting a companies return policy), and sharing doesnt take much effort on top of it. But looking for others to solve your problem - not parts of it, just the problem entirely - is a different animal. My motivation then is to first refute the false answers that come out of the "well I dont care who..." "well I dont care so much about how either, but I have heard" exchanges that follow. At the end of which no one even cares so much about if its factually correct or not - or even to mention the outcome.
I made an error at that stage.
And this is the only reason, why I have become this active in here - because suddenly it potentially impacted my reputation negatively.
The problem with information ecosystems is, that information nowadays is practically free, but filtering and researching it - is not. Always try to remember that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure who this is aimed at or what you are trying to say. My gut feeling is that you're offended that I asked for some information to something. It was merely a question that I asked. For your information I have done a lot of research but am not the most technically savvy person when it comes to this. Why some people feel the need to have knowledge and not share it is beyond me, but that is your choice.I thanked you for your help, just as I have everyone else for theirs, accept it or don't, that's up to you. I did not intend to offend but am thankful for the help I have received
I agree with the post above, maybe you have too much time on your hands.
I'm using this one, you can extract the sound from the HDMI too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-HDMI-Ma...473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d40dfe01
chuandinh said:
I'm using this one, you can extract the sound from the HDMI too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-HDMI-Ma...473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d40dfe01
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow I didn't think anything like this would work. I have an old Panasonic viera so I'm hoping something like this might work as would be a lot cheaper that way. Thank you for posting:good:
>Wow I didn't think anything like this would work.
If you had read amazon reviews, you' have found out that some of those models strip HDCP as well. Just saying. They advertise it as "compatible with DVD players, Playstation 3 and XBOX", because its illegal.
harlekinrains said:
>Wow I didn't think anything like this would work.
If you had read amazon reviews, you' have found out that some of those models strip HDCP as well. Just saying. They advertise it as "compatible with DVD players, Playstation 3 and XBOX", because its illegal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was there really any need? I have read reviews about this so stop making such a big deal about this. People are trying to help, yet you seem intent on making out what I've done is wrong. Nobody else has reacted like you, I suggest you don't post if it annoys you so much
Yes there was a need. Focusing on the form factor is harmful, when more than half of those adapters (same form factor) dont strip DHCP from the signal.
Linking to certain ebay sellers or product rebrands is solicitation. Also ebay auctions are gone within a few weeks which might induce the search for similar looking models. "I never thought it would be possible within this form factor" - without context - is drawing potentially harmful conclusions that others could copy and end up with non working devices.
Those are two reasons why It was necessary to break the focus on form factor - and focus on the stripping DHCP part again. As far as price point is concerned, 16USD from some sources also was old news. (This one is 10 USD with no mention of DHCP stripping in the product description (could still be in it) and one anonymous recommendation from someone on the internet.)
This is enough for me to feel the need to become active again.