Develop Bugs

Copyright issues - A_C's S2U2 probem

Hi all,
I'm just a junior member and have no autual authority in the XDA-Developers Community so I hope this is the right place to put this thread. Moderators, please move it if I've got that wrong. I've just read this thread in the Development and Hacking forum:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=425167
and it raised some concerns in my mind which could present some fairly serious threats to the nature of this forum (i.e. developers' willingness to get involved). Here's a copy of what I posted, entitled "We NEED to see the bigger picture":
OK, I have read through this thread fairly quickly and I have some observations and some suggestions to make. Let me say that I am more of a “user” than a developer but I have made a few very small contributions on XDA-Developers. Please check my stats if you want to. Let me also say that I always look at the “bigger picture” in these situations.
Unfortunately what has happened to A_C over S2U2 is a consequence of capitalism. Businesses exist for the purpose of making money and extending their business. It is not so much a matter of trust or character but that the very purpose of a business is to make money and nothing else. The situation we’ve been presented with does however raise some concerning issues.
There are technicalities and more technicalities which people will continue to use to make money out of products and items of value they did not produce themselves. I don’t think anything we can say to businesses will prevent them doing this. For all the arguments we can present, they will have others and there would be little we can do to stop them TRYING to use freely developed software in this way. Businesses will have more money than we have to promote “their” products, and as we’ve already seen, unless we have a pro-bono lawyer, they will have more money for to defend their business and sales through the law and search engine optimisation (which is a very big business by the way!).
The point I am trying to make is that while this may be an isolated incident right now, there’s nothing to stop this happening again and again. We may well have “lost” A_C despite all the genuine and heart felt encouragement directed towards him so it seems to me that if we want to protect what we have, an environment where developers feel free to develop software for themselves and “us” with our support, we need to do more. What can we do?
We do have two critical factors on our side:
1) Community
2) Technical Expertise
Community - A community has a much greater power to change it’s destiny than any one individual – as demonstrated by the unfortunate situation A_C finds himself in. If we all pull together, or even just those of us more committed to this community, we will be able to overcome much more than we currently realise.
Technical Expertise – As stated above, I am not a developer but I am convinced that there is more technical ability available to this community than many software businesses could pay for with their entire budget, or even turnover.
I believe we must make use of these two strengths or suffer the consequences.
My basic suggestion is that a working group is set up from developers who contribute to this community with the sole purpose of writing a code which can be inserted into any ROM or software which clearly states that the software/ROM has been developed free of charge, and that if the “customer” has paid for it then they should ask for a refund and contact XDA-Developers to report the licence violation and receive the full free version of the software. Once developed this code can then be made available, with instructions, to any new developers who start to submit work to the community so that they don’t fall foul of the same experience as A_C.
Additionally could this code be hard coded into the software/ROM so that unscrupulous software sales companies can’t take it out (I.E. not just a .gif or .jpg splash that can be changed or removed)?
As this is a forum, the next step would be for people to share their views on these suggestions and we’ll see what happens!
Best wishes to A_C – hope you’re not feeling too bad.
I’m going to post this in the general forum as a new thread if there’s not one there already.
andrew-in-woking
I hope that this thread will engender some constructive discussion and lead to a better community for all of us.
Best wishes,
andrew-in-woking

the problem with adding code, is that it adds bulk. the classic example is Cubase audio software, where it is estimated that 50% of cpu power can be wasted in it constantly checking it's protection; and even this has been cracked by geniuses, though i think they have since 'retired' from the scene. anyway, i digress. with space at a premium with phones, getting into copy protection, nag screens, etc. is removing that space. plus from own experience and feedback from users, nag screens and reporting fraud options will get ignored. as 9 times out of 10 they have seeked the software out through unscrupulous sources. add to that, a developer has spent months streamlining their code, only to bolt on some fugly security, kinda depressing.
i dont think there is or will ever be a clear cut solution to copyright im afraid, i mean, look at windows lol.

I had no idea this was happening. Thanks for the heads up.

badaas said:
the problem with adding code, is that it adds bulk...
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I think the OP's suggestion is a good one. It doesn't need to be anything complicated or over the top. Simply text in the About screen will suffice.
I.e.
Help>>About>>"Widget v.1.xx, Developed on XDA-Forums as FREEWARE - If you've paid for this please report the seller to the proper authorities"

i think adding in the freeware statement would be a plus i think if A_C decided to add it in down at the buttom when you first start up S2U2 where it states what verison this is and A_C name would be a good time to have it scroll. If there were some way to have it keep marqueeing while the program is running or for it to do it when the screen wakes up i think as users of A_C's product it wouldn't affect me seeing this because the programs are just that great

The Junkheap – Experimental Device Donations

I've noticed that a some developers (myself included) would be substantially aided in their efforts if they had access to one or more Galaxy S test devices.
I don't know how successful this will be however I've created this thread as a central place for developers to “apply” for device donations and for members to put their (presumably broken) devices up for donation.
My phone is broken, can someone fix it?
If your phone is broken and you want it fixed then a Samsung Service Centre or your place of purchase is the place to get it done. However if for some reason Samsung won't fix your phone then you can list it here and it might inadvertently get fixed, but please make sure you read this whole post very carefully!
Deciding to donate... zero liability!
If you do decide to list a device here regardless of whether you're donating or lending it to someone the developer that you donate/lend it to is in no way liable for what happens to your phone. The purpose of this thread is so users can donate devices for experimental development. As such there is definitely a chance devices could get bricked or permanently damaged (if they're not already). If your warranty isn't already voided then it certainly will be. If you're not willing to accept this then do not donate!
I would like to think that developers who have been donated devices will return the device to the donator upon request, regardless of whether the phone was donated or lent. However, just in case I would like “donators” to make clear what they expect in regards to their donation, whether they intend to donate, lend, donation time-frame etc.
Which developer gets which phone?
I think it should be up to the donator to decide what projects are more worthy or more relevant to the donator. I'm not going to assign phones to projects unless the donator requests that I do so.
How are broken devices useful?
Obviously that depends on what the developer is doing. To some developers a bricked device may be totally useless. However, for developers working on low-level interfacing (JTAG etc.) then bricked devices are basically the perfect test subject.
Shipping the device and costs.
I think it's only fair that people donating their phone shouldn't have to pay the cost to ship the phone to the developer. However, the return shipping costs (if the donator wants the phone returned) should be negotiated on per donation basis.
If the phone turns on the donator MUST disable all security features, in particular the mobile tracker functionality!
Applying/Listing
Developers or donators should fill out the following forms respectively.
--- Developer Application ---
Project Title:
Project Description:
Device Requirements:
Example 1. A Bell I9000M that in the past had access to download mode.
Example 2. Any device that charges.
Location:
Extra Information:
--- Donator Application ---
Donation Type: [Donating/Lending]
Phone Type:
Phone Status:
Example 1. Stuck in boot loop. Never had access to 3-button download mode... even tried the oven!
Example 2. Doesn't respond to power button or charger... it's dead!
Location:
Developer Requirements:
Example 1. Need the device back in a month.
Example 2. If the device gets fixed I would like it returned.
Extra Information:
----------------------------------- Developers -----------------------------------
Benjamin Dobell < celtichazard* (Returned)
dagentooboy
----------------------------------- Donators -----------------------------------
celtichazard -> Benjamin Dobell* (Returned)
Bold - Assigned
Regular - Unassigned
* - Lent

Project Title: Heimdall (and JTAG Research)
Project Description:
Heimdall is an open-source, cross-platform replacement for Odin. It is currently in alpha and is in need of testing. For more detailed information refer to the Heimdall thread.
I'm also interested in doing some JTAG research that will hopefully help bring "fully bricked" phones back to life.
Device Requirements:
Any Galaxy S (or derivative) phone in any state what-so-ever.
Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Extra Information:
I'm good with being lent or donated devices. I'm also happy to return donated devices if I'm able to fix them.

It might be worth also having "qualifications" as one of the things. Because otherwise, even 10 year olds can request phones...
I am concerned about the liability statement though honestly.. I live in Melbourne, but I am concerned that there isn't a reasonable expectation that the mobile will be working when it is returned (but yes, I'd love to see Heimdell succeed). Also, there isn't any clauses which ensure that provide leverage for mobile's to be returned.

andrewluecke said:
It might be worth also having "qualifications" as one of the things. Because otherwise, even 10 year olds can request phones...
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I don't think it should be up to me to decide who is qualified. However I will add something to the original thread that makes it clear it is the donators choice as to who they donate to (I'm not going to automatically assign phones to people).

Lending
--- Donator Application ---
Donation Type: Lending
Phone Type:Samsung Galaxy S i9000 european version
Phone Status:
Stuck in boot loop. Never had access to 3-button download mode... even tried the oven!
Location: Country : Mexico State: Chihuahua City: Juarez
Developer Requirements:
If the device gets fixed I would like it returned.
Extra Information: The device was flashed with AT&T Rom

celtichazard will be lending me his bricked phone so that I can perform some JTAG research into unbricking Galaxy S phones.
If anyone is interested in this research and would like to donate to help cover the cost of shipping, JTAG adapters, wires, components, solder etc. that would be very much appreciated.

The Junkheap sounds like a really good idea .
The JTAG research you are talking about; I have no clue what it is. Is it also related to your Heimdall project? Because that did sound interesting.
Also, I checked out your website at the donate link, and the subjects are so horribly technical, I have no clue what that is about either. So I guess it must be really low-level high-tech ^^.
Edit: donated a little bit. Heimdall could potentially be very practical for all of us .

jjwa said:
The Junkheap sounds like a really good idea .
The JTAG research you are talking about; I have no clue what it is. Is it also related to your Heimdall project? Because that did sound interesting.
Also, I checked out your website at the donate link, and the subjects are so horribly technical, I have no clue what that is about either. So I guess it must be really low-level high-tech ^^.
Edit: donated a little bit. Heimdall could potentially be very practical for all of us .
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First of all, thank you very much for the donation.
The research that I'll be doing with celtichazard's phone is in regards to finding a way to unbrick any bricked Galaxy S phone. The research is not immediately related to Heimdall. However, if I do manage to work out how to unbrick a phone it will definitely be beneficial for everyone. It will also have a positive effect on the development of Heimdall, as it will allow me to try more experimental functionality without worrying about having to send my phone off to the UK for repair if something goes wrong.

Project Title: JTAG
Project Description:
Trying to figure out a way to unbrick "fully bricked" phones.
Device Requirements:
Any Galaxy S (or derivative) phone in a "fully bricked" state.
Also a fully working one would be nice so I can dump the bootloader.
Location:
Madrid, Spain
Extra Information:
JTAG can bring a bricked phone back to life. If I figure out how to make this work your phone will be fully working. If not then it will still be bricked. I would be willing to return the phone in whatever state it is in when I am done. If you are in the United States a USPS flat rate priority mail box to me is $15. If you have a device that you want to ship let me know and if I need it I will pay for shipping one way.

andrewluecke said:
I am concerned about the liability statement though honestly.. I live in Melbourne, but I am concerned that there isn't a reasonable expectation that the mobile will be working when it is returned (but yes, I'd love to see Heimdell succeed). Also, there isn't any clauses which ensure that provide leverage for mobile's to be returned.
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I only just realised you edited your post.
The liability statement is mostly in place to ensure developers aren't held responsible for damage (which may or may not have been their fault) or postage related issues.
I understand your concerns in regards to having the device returned, but quite simply there is absolutely no way to enforce such a policy. International law is largely a myth so attempting to enforce any such clause would be near impossible. If you're donating to someone within the same country then you certainly could write-up a contract. I'm not a lawyer, but if a donator wants to organise such a contract with a developer then they're certainly free to do so.
The best thing you can do is to make sure you donate to a reasonably well known developer. If the person you're donating to has a reputation to uphold then you've definitely got some leverage if things get nasty.
Regardless I sincerely hope that we won't see that sort of situation here.

dagentooboy is still looking for someone to donate or lend him a phone. His JTAG research is similar to the work I'll be doing and is extremely important. The more people we have working on it the more likely we'll come across a fix.
If someone has a bricked phone they are willing to donate/lend that would be fantastic.

I suggest to link the developer requests and the donator offers in the first post.
This should help to get a faster overview what is needed/offered.
The link to each post is in the upper right corner of each post.
And i would suggest to use this junkheap for all SGS phones (captivate, vibrant, epic 4g, fascinate & i9000), because most of rom/kernel mods could easily be ported to all sgs phones and development would be faster if developers could have access to all sgs phones.

neldar said:
I suggest to link the developer requests and the donator offers in the first post.
This should help to get a faster overview what is needed/offered.
The link to each post is in the upper right corner of each post.
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Click to collapse
Great idea, I just finished updating the first post.
neldar said:
And i would suggest to use this junkheap for all SGS phones (captivate, vibrant, epic 4g, fascinate & i9000), because most of rom/kernel mods could easily be ported to all sgs phones and development would be faster if developers could have access to all sgs phones.
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Yeah all phones are accepted depending on what particular developers are after. However thus-far I believe myself and dagentooboy have been willing to accept any SGS phone (including derivatives).

yeah any GSM galaxy s phone would be fine... if it is CDMA I won't be able to test the cell side (to make sure I didn't break it).

Project Title: UnBrickable Mod
Project Description:
An end user solution to unbricking fully bricked phones with only a wire and soldering skills
Device Requirements:
an i9000 device which can have the processor removed and not replaced.
Location:
Louisiana, USA
Extra Information:
UnBrickable Mod has been performed on the Captivate and I'd like to get this modification out to you guys in the i9000 sector. This mod allows you to flash bootloaders and not think twice. Thereby increasing development and allowing for repurposing of our phones at the end of their lives as a Ubuntu device, or similar.
This modification will be fully documented and open-source. It will help the entire community get out of a jam without any additional hardware if they have the skills to solder two points on the board. I must locate these points and it requires removal of the processor. I can return the device which will be inoperative if required.
See video for explanation of how easy it will be to unbrick with UnBrickable Mod.
The execution of a single device will allow resurrection of all others.

Project Title: Thor (an alternative to Heimdall)
Project Description:
Thor is aiming to be more stable and up-to-date.
Here is an XDA thread about it.
Here is a list of new features that I want to test:
1) Ability to flash from BL/AP/CP/CSC .tar archives directly
2) Ability do download latest firmware and flash it automatically
3) Ability to flash compressed (.lz4) files directly (newly discovered)
4) You can shut down the device from GUI immediately (no reboot)
5) PIT viewer built-in, with more accurate information
6) Ability to do NAND Erase All (actually it just erases userdata)
7) Ability to do DevInfo (information about the device: model, carrier id, region, serial code)
Device Requirements:
1) Any Samsung device with Odin v3 protocol
2) Lending only, as my parents would tell me to **** off
Location:
Obviously you don't need this.
Extra Information:
None

Project: PostmarketOS, UBPorts on galaxystmd
Old device: but I have multiple. Willing to send one to device to multiple developers with experience and desire to port for proof-of-concept and/or restoring functionality to this device via mainline Linux (PMOS).
UBTouch would be a secondary effort: as it had been ported during the initial launch, but did not get migrated to the UBPorts project.
3rd effort would be porting latest Lineage, modded/optimized ROM, stripped down/optimized kernel. "One final rodeo."
1 Device per person Per Effort.
So realistically I would give each person up to three devices.

[ATTENTION DEVS] Donations and Open-Source/Freeware Discussion

I just thought I'd start this thread to ask other developers about their opinion on the matter.
I spent many hours across several weeks reverse engineering the Samsung Galaxy S flashing protocol and then programming, testing and distributing Heimdall as open-source software.
Based on bandwidth consumption Heimdall has been downloaded anywhere between 2000 and 8000 times (depending on whether the source or binaries were downloaded). I have received no more than eight donations, a very sincere thank-you goes out to those eight people! Let's assume that 25% of the total number of downloads were repeat downloaders, so we have somewhere between 1500 and 6000 unique users. So only 0.134-0.534% of users actually donate. Those sorts of donation rates are barely able to cover the cost of bandwidth, if at all.
I know there are a lot of people out there who consider themselves avid supporters of open-source and open-source software. I wouldn't necessarily call myself one of those people, however I do believe there is definitely a time and a place for open-source software, Heimdall being a perfect example.
I also know a lot of people who distribute ROMs, apps, tools, mods etc. are hobbyists who do what they do in their spare time, and the community should be very thankful of that. As for myself, I work as a independent software/games developer, not particularly the most monetarily rewarding profession around.
As much as we do enjoy releasing free software for the community, it is difficult for developers such as myself to justify the work involved when there is little to no return, after all the bills need to be paid somehow.
My question is this, is it possible for developers releasing open-source software directly to the community, not large corporations, to make a living off their work? Furthermore, how do we encourage community members to give back to developers who have donated their time to the community?

Can't you use Google Code instead for hosting? or SourceForge? all provide free bandwidth IIRC.
Don't expect any donations as a rule, if you are expecting profit then either use ads on your website or charge.
I would have thought the primary reason for developing OSS on your phone is to improve the product you originally bought.
Cheers,
MiG

If you want free hosting, I can hook you up at http://www.sgscompilebox.dreamhosters.com/ that I'm paying for anyway for z4mod. Unlimited bandwidth/space. Offer goes out to anybody who wants to host anything for the SGS.
EDIT: Oh, and to answer your question: No, I don't believe it's possible to make a living off making 3rd party open source tools that only a fraction(technical users) of a device's users will use. If you want to make a living off open source, the best bet is through a company such as Canonical, or by creating applications focused at casual users with as much potential marketshare as possible. Or do what most people do: get a regular 'closed' job, and do open source stuff as a hobby.

MiG- said:
Can't you use Google Code instead for hosting? or SourceForge? all provide free bandwidth IIRC.
Don't expect any donations as a rule, if you are expecting profit then either use ads on your website or charge.
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I don't think you fully understand what I'm trying to discuss. The bandwidth costs are fairly negligible, especially if I'm approximately able to cover the costs with just eight donations. A developers time however is substantially more expensive, and in some ways the effort and intention is priceless
I'm not expecting profit as such, nor do I particularly wish this discussion to center around myself (I'm just using my statistics as an example). I'm just curious to know whether people think it is possible to be a "sustainable" open-source developer who contributes software directly to a community? As opposed to large open-source products targeted towards large corporations who pay technical support contracts.
I'm also not a big fan off stuffing ads down the throat of my user-base. Also, in this particular context I seriously doubt that sort of approach would work, especially if third-party free hosting (sourceforge, github etc.) is used.
MiG- said:
I would have thought the primary reason for developing OSS on your phone is to improve the product you originally bought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not necessarily. In my particular case I've simply released a tool to further enable the community to do something that other users (myself included) could already do, in some capacity or another.
For most developers releasing open-source software isn't so much about improving something they own. It's more about providing something for a community to use and benefit from without constraints. It's not unreasonable to ask the community to support you in return. After all there is nothing that forces developers to ever release the software they develop, unless you've used GPL code which is another matter entirely.
MiG-, based on your answer I'm assuming you're saying, no you do not think it's possible, which is definitely a perfectly valid answer to questions I've asked. Although I would definitely love to hear what more community members, particularly developers, have to say about the topic.

RyanZA said:
If you want free hosting, I can hook you up at http://www.sgscompilebox.dreamhosters.com/ that I'm paying for anyway for z4mod. Unlimited bandwidth/space. Offer goes out to anybody who wants to host anything for the SGS.
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Bit of topic.. you can host roms?

DocRambone said:
Bit of topic.. you can host roms?
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Until someone stops me, sure.

RyanZA said:
EDIT: Oh, and to answer your question: No, I don't believe it's possible to make a living off making 3rd party open source tools that only a fraction(technical users) of a device's users will use. If you want to make a living off open source, the best bet is through a company such as Canonical, or by creating applications focused at casual users with as much potential marketshare as possible. Or do what most people do: get a regular 'closed' job, and do open source stuff as a hobby.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with pretty much everything except the part about targeting casual users in order to make money. In my experience technically inclined users, who have an appreciation for a piece of software, are substantially more likely to donate that casual users who lack the knowledge of the work involved. Of course selling software is something that can be more easily achieved when targeting a casual user base, especially if they know nothing of piracy. However it is generally not possible to sell "open-source" software directly.

Benjamin Dobell said:
I agree with pretty much everything except the part about targeting casual users in order to make money. In my experience technically inclined users, who have an appreciation for a piece of software, are substantially more likely to donate that casual users who lack the knowledge of the work involved. Of course selling software is something that can be more easily achieved when targeting a casual user base, especially if they know nothing of piracy. However it is generally not possible to sell "open-source" software directly.
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Of course it is. Why do you think all of these app stores and market place etc is all catching on? You're never going to get rich off it, but putting up a popular open source application with an advert (and the option to turn it off even) should be able to bring in a pretty good revenue! Social networking seems to do the best for these types of apps.
Also, you'd probably want to diversify if relying on ad money - one banner ad in 25 open source apps, with 100K users each could easily reach a lot of money. And it should be possible to crank out a simple, well made open source app that serves a definite purpose in under 3 months. So with some time investment, in a couple years you'd be able to live off it. No different from closed sourced apps when you you use advertising.
Most important thing though is to make something that
1) the average user understands what it does
2) does the job as simply as possible
3) actually helps the user
4) has as wide a potential market as possible
You could look at firefox as the ultimate in this type of thing.
This is all a lot of work though, I'm sure, and if you're after money, a regular desk job is almost guaranteed to work out better.

RyanZA said:
Of course it is. Why do you think all of these app stores and market place etc is all catching on? You're never going to get rich off it, but putting up a popular open source application with an advert (and the option to turn it off even) should be able to bring in a pretty good revenue! Social networking seems to do the best for these types of apps.
Also, you'd probably want to diversify if relying on ad money - one banner ad in 25 open source apps, with 100K users each could easily reach a lot of money. And it should be possible to crank out a simple, well made open source app that serves a definite purpose in under 3 months. So with some time investment, in a couple years you'd be able to live off it. No different from closed sourced apps when you you use advertising.
Most important thing though is to make something that
1) the average user understands what it does
2) does the job as simply as possible
3) actually helps the user
4) has as wide a potential market as possible
You could look at firefox as the ultimate in this type of thing.
This is all a lot of work though, I'm sure, and if you're after money, a regular desk job is almost guaranteed to work out better.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, I mostly meant that it's difficult to "sell" open-source software. If your software is truly open-source then users are likely to download it, compile it and then redistribute it for free, which is sort of reasonable given that it's meant to be open source.
However advertising in a free application is slightly different than selling an application and it does have a lot more potential to succeed. However depending on what you mean by "putting up a popular open source application" I might have moral issues with that. Unless the popular application is your own or you've substantially modified (added a UI etc) to an existing piece of open-source software. Although a lot less likely to happen if your app is free, if it is open-source there is still the chance someone else will distribute it for free, unless of course the non-code assets aren't open.
I definitely do believe that at the moment it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to live off the type of open-source software I initially described. It's a bit saddening though to realise how massively one falls short, hopefully this will change in the future.

About those donations. If I would use it, I would probably donate.
I worked my a** of for the community, providing ROMs and kitchens for 3 years for the HTC S710 and S740 and I got about 4 or 5 donations over that period of time. Sometimes it get's very frustrating, but hang in there, it's worth it after all (there would be no WM 6.5 on the Vox or the Rose without me (dare I say that ), but I wanted it anyway, so I made it and just released it for others as well)!
PS: SAP r3 is open source and it sells veeeeeery good

I think the community can recognize such invaluable work & devote a part of their donations to them, if they are using his software & really think its worth.
I think however small percentage it could be, it would make the developer feel wanted & make him continue devoting his valuable time.
I just read an article either today or yesterday regarding a conference of software developers for android community, & when one developer went to the podium & said he is earning a steady $1-$2 per day, people actually laughed. He retorted, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD. Android hasn't penetrated the markets YET like iPhone. So awareness & earnings are still low.
BTW, a nice GUI would change everything.
Just my 2 cents worth.
PS : In continuation to RyanZA's talk, I would like to mention that if you think you have something worth using, MAKE A LOT of noise about it. THAT's how people notice, use & donate. No one can understand a software's worth until you tell them. Like some WWii prime minister said, if you want the world to understand what you are telling, tell it like you are telling a donkey.

Ben, I think you need to differentiate between recognition, fame & money. Ideas are many have you tried http://www.ideaken.com/ ?

Benjamin Dobell said:
Agreed, I mostly meant that it's difficult to "sell" open-source software. If your software is truly open-source then users are likely to download it, compile it and then redistribute it for free, which is sort of reasonable given that it's meant to be open source.
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Most companies "built on open-source" provide binaries, and real support for those binaries, and earn a living from that. In an enterprise environment giving support can earn a lot of money (mainly because a lot of companies have policies to only use software/hardware that has decent support). On my last job we had to use a really crappy software, just because the (really) good alternative didn't had a support center in our country.
For the casual users: the marketplaces + ads are a good place to start. If you manage to create something that casual users will use, then it might pay of. Those users don't actaully care about the software being FOSS or not. Actually there aren't many people who care how free an application really is (except for most people working in IT or similar)

If bandwidth is an issue then host it over megaupload and such, problem solved.

ragin said:
BTW, a nice GUI would change everything.
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And give users the ability to think they are actually a power user. Most people here at xda can't write even simple scripts, but they do want to try out new and experimental stuff. (on the other hand there are a lot of users who want things that just work, for them give a simple gui saying: "DO DA STUFF")

EarlZ said:
If bandwidth is an issue then host it over megaupload and such, problem solved.
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I hate when people upload source code to megaupload. There's github, code.google.com and sf.net. sf.net is although quite old now, the other too are still great when it comes to hosting FOSS stuff.
Github is even nicer since they've added a big "Download" button for the end users.

General Samsung HACKED

Obviously, this is concerning. BUT...
"according to videocardz, the hackers gained access to"
- source code for every Trusted Applet (TA) installed in Samsung’s TrustZone environment used for sensitive operations (e.g. hardware cryptography, binary encryption, access control)
- algorithms for all biometric unlock operations
- bootloader source code for all recent Samsung devices
- confidential source code from Qualcomm
- source code for Samsung’s activation servers
- full source code for technology used for authorizing and authenticating Samsung accounts, including APIs and services"
So they have the bootloaders...and COULD help the devs unlock them for rooting.
* fingers crosses *

Lol, to plug all the new holes most will panic update as soon as Samsung releases the updates.
On the top of the Sammy holes to plug list will be a new bootloader lockout strategy, more difficult then ever before.
"You have attempted to unlock the bootloader.
This Samsung will self-destruct in 10 seconds.
Good luck, Mr. Phelps."
These hackers serve no one but themselves; thieves stealing not just from Samsung but Samsung's customers as well.
Our net gain is not just zero, it's a huge net loss because of Samsung's bumbling incompetence.

blackhawk said:
Lol, to plug all the new holes most will panic update as soon as Samsung releases the updates.
On the top of the Sammy holes to plug list will be a new bootloader lockout strategy, more difficult then ever before.
"You have attempted to unlock the bootloader.
This Samsung will self-destruct in 10 seconds.
Good luck, Mr. Phelps."
These hackers serve no one but themselves; thieves stealing not just from Samsung but Samsung's customers as well.
Our net gain is not just zero, it's a huge net loss because of Samsung's bumbling incompetence.
Click to expand...
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People will ABSOLUTELY update ASAP. Fair reasoning, but also Sammy WILL plug that possible loophole.
Just sayin, MAYBE a hacker in the XDA community...possible.

dirtybudha said:
People will ABSOLUTELY update ASAP. Fair reasoning, but also Sammy WILL plug that possible loophole.
Just sayin, MAYBE a hacker in the XDA community...possible.
Click to expand...
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Who knows? There's no telling if the code has been altered. The source is a big not to be trusted red flag.
Personally I wouldn't touch that hot potato.

This is for all to see. This is the "Official" XDA stance on this matter as per the Administrator staff. So please be mindful of this, and if you think a member is using this illegally acquired information, then please report it ASAP as none of this leak should find it's way onto XDA. And please feel free to link this post for other members to see if applicable.
Well people can ask questions about the leak, could it lead to this or that getting hacked etc (Knox etc) and theoretical discussions can take place.
BUT, we are not here to participate in a high profile hack and sharing of stolen data. For all I know these hackers have some of my data along with that of thousands of our members. Even Knox security is a concern to everyone here.
Now if this were just a matter of hacking that allows access to a device, root etc., then we have always argued that as owners of devices we should have a right to get the most from our own devices. That does not include sharing personal data, sharing illegally obtained security information or coding that very clearly would be illegal to share.
We have sometimes allowed information that is freely available on the net to be used to allow individual users / developers to get better access to their own devices, but this leak potentially goes way beyond finding a way for individuals to root their phones and XDA must not be used to share indiscriminate mass amounts of data which would breach laws in most countries and likely includes personal individual information.
XDA is like this.................
"After examining a door lock I have found a way you can pick your front door lock, try it if you like, it might help you if you lose your key."
XDA is not like this ...
"After examining a door lock, I have found a way to pick locks and I got into a shop and stole thousands of things. Would you like some? Also, would you let me come into your house and invite people in so I can tell them where to get stolen goods?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you: Badger50 FSM

Badger50 said:
This is for all to see. This is the "Official" XDA stance on this matter as per the Administrator staff. So please be mindful of this, and if you think a member is using this illegally acquired information, then please report it ASAP as none of this leak should find it's way onto XDA. And please feel free to link this post for other members to see if applicable.
Thank you: Badger50 FSM
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most of us is really just looking to unlock the bootloaders to grant access to certain parts of the phone and reduce samsung e waste, but i get it, ethics and all...

Not sure that such a strong stance on this is right here. Given that development in the past has often benefitted from leaks and "illegally acquired" information. To say that none of the leak will ever make it's way here is just like trying to deny the inevitable.
I personally look forward to seeing what this brings.

And to be honest no one is using anything just discussing

Badger50 said:
This is for all to see. This is the "Official" XDA stance on this matter as per the Administrator staff. So please be mindful of this, and if you think a member is using this illegally acquired information, then please report it ASAP as none of this leak should find it's way onto XDA. And please feel free to link this post for other members to see if applicable.
Thank you: Badger50 FSM
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Click to collapse
if someone uses this info to unlock bootloaders for us, you want us to snitch on them? what about all the threads have ever existed where insiders allow us to pay them for unlock tokens? all the threads where exploits that have been found from illegal leaks?

diabl0w said:
if someone uses this info to unlock bootloaders for us, you want us to snitch on them? what about all the threads have ever existed where insiders allow us to pay them for unlock tokens? all the threads where exploits that have been found from illegal leaks?
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Couldn't agree more sir!

Badger50 said:
This is for all to see. This is the "Official" XDA stance on this matter as per the Administrator staff. So please be mindful of this, and if you think a member is using this illegally acquired information, then please report it ASAP as none of this leak should find it's way onto XDA. And please feel free to link this post for other members to see if applicable.
Thank you: Badger50 FSM
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Click to collapse
Maybe lookup how XDA developers was formed and what the XDA was and how everything was possible to publish those days.... People were reverse engineering handhelds and stuff

DaanNL said:
Maybe lookup how XDA developers was formed and what the XDA was and how everything was possible to publish those days.... People were reverse engineering handhelds and stuff
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There is a huge difference between reverse engineering and posting stolen information. We also still actively encourage and host threads of reverse engineered "stuff", how else do you think we have TWRP, ROMs, Root, etc..?

It will be extremely difficult to find out, how much reverse engineering or stolen information is in a future bootloader hack ...

General [WARNING] Calling stops working outside of China for the Chinese version

At least three people on the 4pda forum have reported that the Chinese version of the phone restricts making and receiving calls outside of China after two weeks of use.
Source 1: "Your phone is best suited for a specific region. There are restrictions on the calling function in your region. Please contact your place of purchase to resolve the problem."
Source 2: "Today it's stopped receiving calls, and when I try to make a call it bails out. Had to reset to factory settings. Activated on Jan, 23rd."
Source 3.
This is quite scary and unexpected. Both people use ColorOS and have yet to install the global firmware.
I wouldn't recommend buying the Chinese version for using outside of China until this issue is sorted out.
The only solution so far has been to take/send the phone to an official Oppo/OnePlus service center to unlock it. This must be done only after the calling restriction becomes active (rebooting the phone ~11 times is enough).
OnePlus 11 versions/models:
PHB110: China (region lock)
CPH2447: India (region lock)
CPH2449_EEA: EU (lock free)
CPH2449_GLO: International (lock free)
CPH2451: North America (lock free)

@birdie
I've removed the links to 4pda from your above post!
4pda is not only another phone related website (and not at all affiliated with xda-developers) but also well known for the distribution of malware and warez. Links or references to 4pda are not accepted on XDA.
XDA Forum Rules (excerpt):
...
6. Do not post or request warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, then pay for it. We do not accept warez nor do we permit members to request, post, promote or describe ways in which warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained or used. This is a site of developers, i.e. the sort of people who create such software. When you cheat a software developer, you cheat us as a community.
(...)
11. Don’t post with the intention of selling something.
Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. Proprietors of for-pay products or services, may use XDA to get feedback, provide beta access, or a free version of their product for XDA users and to offer support, but not to post with the intention of selling. This includes promoting sites similar / substantially similar to XDA-Developers.com.
Do not post press releases, announcements, links to trial software or commercial services, unless you’re posting an exclusive release for XDA-Developers.com.
Encouraging members to participate in forum activities on other phone related sites is prohibited.
Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.
Off-site downloads from sites requiring registration are NOT encouraged but may be permitted if both of the following conditions are met:
A) The site belongs to a member of XDA-Developers with at least 1500 posts and 2 years membership, who actively maintains an XDA-Developers support thread(s) / posts, related to the download.
B) The site is a relatively small, personal website without commercial advertising / links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)
...
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Click to collapse
Please refrain from sharing of such links in future! Thanks for your cooperation.
Regards
Oswald Boelcke
Senior Moderator

No idea why all the links have been removed from the message but whatever.
4pda distributes warez, correct, but all the links were for a valid topic which has nothing to do with that.
Never heard of them distributing malware though. Must be something to do with the war I guess.
4pda has a ton of talented developers and some ROMs are basically developed over there but looks like the rules here have changed.
My post had nothing to do with warez.
Can I post a link to Google com?
Over 15 thousand results for 4pda at xda-developers.

Yep, its true.
You get message about region lock, then device working for some time with calls. Then calls become disabled.
I got this situation and now I`m waiting for some like Oxygen OS get released to move on it.

Baradim said:
Yep, its true.
You get message about region lock, then device working for some time with calls. Then calls become disabled.
I got this situation and now I`m waiting for some like Oxygen OS get released to move on it.
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Is this specific to OnePlus 11? I've never heard of this restriction/issue before.
It could actually be very bad for the consumer. Imagine a Chinese goes to visit another country for more than two weeks. They may find themselves being unable to make/receive calls which could result in a loss of life. Whoever implemented this hasn't thought it through. Either calling works or doesn't. Breaking the feature at a random time? This is horrible and inhumane.

I brought my to oppo shop and got it unlocked

Roongx said:
I brought my to oppo shop and got it unlocked
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Did they flash OxygenOS firmware or factory reset?

LOL this company becomes more and more of a joke by the day.

I get the warning too but still can receive calls

Danz17 said:
I get the warning too but still can receive calls
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Im got warning too, but how long you used? More than 2 weeks?

quynh2v said:
Im got warning too, but how long you used? More than 2 weeks?
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I got my phone 1/15 and used after that, call without any problems despite got the warning from time to time

sunxutian said:
I got my phone 1/15 and used after that, call without any problems despite got the warning from time to time
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I use my phone normally for more than 2 weeks now, the warning is only when reboot the phone at the setup time.

maksimkurb said:
Did they flash OxygenOS firmware or factory reset?
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Click to collapse
no they didnt flash or factory reset, they just unlock it using your imei number, can go check out the realme c35 unlock region on youtube. i believe the step is similar but i just brought my phone to oppo to do it since is relatively new although i got my set imported from China and i base in Singapore. They still unlock for me

sunxutian said:
I got my phone 1/15 and used after that, call without any problems despite got the warning from time to time
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Click to collapse
I was able to make phone calls too in the beginning despite warnings until one day it suddenly stopped working. I posted a video about this on a Chinese platform. Oppo/onpleus support commented on my video that my device was locked because it was first activated outside of China. I was advised to visit a local Oppo service center along with proof of purchase for them to unlock.

I think this was activated with an OTA. I am still on A06 and haven't seen this warning yet.
Activated 24th Jan, first time outside China.

And anybody with OXYGEN OS also having this problem. Software is there, flashing should be possible.

Roongx said:
I brought my to oppo shop and got it unlocked
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What is the cost of unlocking? What price is it?

NightS12321 said:
What is the cost of unlocking? What price is it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is free

Hey bro, I'll get my OP 11 in a few days, I've seen similar problems in the China digital forum but I'm curious how this region lock works? Does it require a Chinese sim card? Or does it require a connection to a Chinese network, like a Chinese IP address or something.... I own both of these things, a valid Chinese sim card, and a Chinese VPN.... If OPPO is relying on these things to determine the region, that would be great. (I really don't want to mail the phone to a OnePlus service center even if they can fix it, the OnePlus service center in Europe is in Poland, which is too far away) The biggest concern is that OPPO relies on the network country code to determine the region.

Man, and I was really considering buying this phone in the UK. What's the best option, to ask seller to send a sealed unit so it doesn't get activated in China, or get them to install oxigenos and lock bootloader?