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Ok, so I have an AT&T SIII running AOKP (was on CM 10, waiting for a bit better 10.1 stability in the Bluetooth department). I just found out how awesome the PS3's Dualshock 3 controller is for gaming on android. I'm considering purchasing a GameKlip for it.
-Anyway-
I know that the SIII's charging rate is capped somewhere between 750-1000 mA. I did some searching here on XDA, and it seems that buying a 2A charger wont charge the phone any faster because the charge rate is capped by the phone. I get that. My problem is that my phone will discharge 10% or more per hour on AC power (OC'd, brightness up, PS3 controller) while I'm gaming. I also understand that concept.
My question is: If I use a 2A charger, will the potential excess power prevent the phone from discharging while gaming, or will it be irrelevant? I assume the former.
While everyone is on the same topic, what is the highest charging rate that OEM's typically allow? Does say, HTC or Motorola tend to have higher rates? I'm not against switching to another phone (or carrier if I have to) if it means no discharging while gaming. The way it sits, if my battery is already low from using it during the day, and I come home from work to play some games, the battery will just die even though it's plugged in. Seems counter-intuitive to me. Other than this issue, I have my battery usage down to a SCIENCE, and I usually have idle drain less than 1%/hour while on WiFi with MINIMAL wakelocks. I think because of that, this drainage thing really drives me nuts!
What do you guys think?
Thanks!
- And yes, the poll question assumes you are on AC power.
rytymu said:
Ok, so I have an AT&T SIII running AOKP (was on CM 10, waiting for a bit better 10.1 stability in the Bluetooth department). I just found out how awesome the PS3's Dualshock 3 controller is for gaming on android. I'm considering purchasing a GameKlip for it.
-Anyway-
I know that the SIII's charging rate is capped somewhere between 750-1000 mA. I did some searching here on XDA, and it seems that buying a 2A charger wont charge the phone any faster because the charge rate is capped by the phone. I get that. My problem is that my phone will discharge 10% or more per hour (OC'd, brightness up, PS3 controller) while I'm gaming. I also understand that concept.
My question is: If I use a 2A charger, will the potential excess power prevent the phone from discharging while gaming, or will it be irrelevant? I assume the former.
While everyone is on the same topic, what is the highest charging rate that OEM's typically allow? Does say, HTC or Motorola tend to have higher rates? I'm not against switching to another phone (or carrier if I have to) if it means no discharging while gaming. The way it sits, if my battery is already low from using it during the day, and I come home from work to play some games, the battery will just die even though it's plugged in. Seems counter-intuitive to me. Other than this issue, I have my battery usage down to a SCIENCE, and I usually have idle drain less than 1%/hour while on WiFi with MINIMAL wakelocks. I think because of that, this drainage thing really drives me nuts!
What do you guys think?
Thanks!
- And yes, the poll question assumes you are on AC power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, I've been using a 2A Charger since i purchased my phone three months ago. Im using the one from the nexus 7, but to answer your question.
I've noticed no difference in discharging using the 1A vs the 2A, the only factor that can that is your kernel and rom.
Since i've switch to a ktoonz kernel my battery life is improved by 75%. (using custom settings)
Also can i suggest possibly looking at a extended battery pack? I have both the gorilla gadgets and the hyperion. Both are amazing i was able to get 3 days on it, under heavy gaming 1.5 days.
Im using only a 3150maH battery right now, as i stopped gaming on my phone, bought a sick computer.
Funnily enough, I also use a DualShock 3 with my device on occasion, normally while on AC power. I've never noticed any power dips, but that may be because I'm not particularly pushing the device to its limits in the process.
Anyway, I think the meat of the matter is this: does the phone limit the amount of current entering via the micro-USB port (which is then split between battery charging and normal device usage), or does it limit the amount of current going into the battery? If it's the latter (which I'd consider more likely, given that the micro-USB port is expected to handle at least 1.8A), then you'll notice a benefit from using a more powerful charger under the circumstances. I don't actually know if that's the case, though.
Does your kernel support quick-charge? I don't know the science behind it, but it allows me to charge my phone from dead to 100% in less than half the time it normally takes.
exodus454 said:
Does your kernel support quick-charge? I don't know the science behind it, but it allows me to charge my phone from dead to 100% in less than half the time it normally takes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does, but I thought fast charging only makes USB charging the same rate as AC charging (plus I heard it can permanently damage the USB interface)... Therefore my understanding is that the hardware charge cap still applies.
Hi,
I'm using some Nexus 7 (2013) with Android 4.4.4 as control panels, being 24/7 powered with an AC charger. After ~2 years operation, the batteries in my Nexus 7s expanded dramatically to the point I have to replace them. I guess it's due to them being constantly held at maximum level (4.25V) at a moderate temperature ~5°C above ambient. Since I don't really use the battery - and the Nexus 7 won't boot with the battery detached (tried it), I'm looking for a way to disable the battery charging via ac (and usb/wireless) completely via software, so I can make my own charging logic that tops the battery at ~3.80V which should make it way more happy.
I already did some research and found https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/54902/disable-usb-charging or https://android.gadgethacks.com/how...oid-device-avoid-excess-battery-wear-0176280/
Command "dumpsys battery set ac 0" or "dumpsys battery set status 4" didn't have an effect.
The file "/sys/class/power_supply/battery/charging_enabled" doesn't exist on the Nexus 7 (2013).
I do have root...
Can someone help me out?
Thx
Edit: Problem solved with custom kernel, see post #10
That funcionality must be enabled in the kernel. However, I guess is not possible because it must be supported by the hardware, which is not the case
Maybe you can detach the battery and supply about 4 volts by using and external power supply and voltage regulator connected to the board pins
I am interested on this too...
bamsbamx said:
it must be supported by the hardware, which is not the case
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know for sure? Do you have any information about the power management chips used and/or schematics?
bamsbamx said:
Maybe you can detach the battery and supply about 4 volts by using and external power supply and voltage regulator connected to the board pins
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using an actual regulated voltage source is not a good idea, since the device will try to charge it.
Best fake battery might be a capacitor. I've tried a 100µF cap and it tricked the Nexus 7 into thinking a proper battery is connected and it bootet. But after a second it did shut off. I guess it actually tried to drain the battery despite the fact that a AC supply was connected and thus the cap drained immediately.
A supercap might work, but I don't have one. I also don't know if slim ones actually exist that would fit into the case.
Another mod would be to place two antiparallel schottky diodes between the plus terminal and the battery. This way it would only charge to ~4.0V, but as soon the charging stops, the battery would read ~3.7V and I guess that would drive the charging circuit crazy.
Also, I'd prefer to not do any hardware mods... I have lots of these devices
Edit: Actually, with a 1500µF cap the boot screen appears and I can also enter recovery. But as soon as android starts to boot, the voltage collapses and the device reboots.
bamsbamx said:
Maybe you can detach the battery and supply about 4 volts by using and external power supply and voltage regulator connected to the board pins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Connecting power directly to the motherboard, presumably without a battery and the data lines, has not been tested, but removing battery from its control PCB and connecting a 5V power supply instead works fine.
RFZ said:
Do you have any information about the power management chips used and/or schematics?
.....
Using an actual regulated voltage source is not a good idea, since the device will try to charge it.
......
A supercap might work, but I don't have one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is some info on battery control IC.
If the regulated voltage source is 5V (vs 3.7-4.2V), the device will have no reason to charge it, but "charging" a power supply is harmless anyway.
A supercap is still not good enough as the initial boot up current peaks at 1A and takes several seconds, while an external power supply on the USB port can contribute only a small portion of it. Another option is a different battery - the Nokia battery never expanded after years of being constantly powered with an AC charger.
Applying 5V to the battery protection pcb that expects a Li-Po isn't the first idea I'd have... According to ifixit, the N7 uses a PM8921 Battery Management Chip. It's rated maximum for V_bat is 4.5V (section "3.2 Recommended operating conditions" https://developer.qualcomm.com/down...er-management-module-device-specification.pdf )
Also, I'd prefer to keep the battery. It is still useful in power outage scenarios.
An interesting idea however is to modify the chip on the battery itself. Maybe I can program it to a lower maximum voltage and the PM8921 will then respect that?
I also found the kernel driver for the PM8921
https://android.googlesource.com/ke...3.4-kitkat-mr0/drivers/power/pm8921-charger.c
It looks like it supports stopping the charge... But I don't know how if it's possible to use that...
After receiving a logic analyzer, I had a look at the I2C communication with the bq27541-G1 chip on the battery.
The Nexus 7 only reads Voltage( ), StateOfCharge( ), Temperature( ), AverageCurrent( ) and Flags( ) during boot and when the usb plug is (un)plugged. I was hoping it would read parts of the configuration of the bq27541-G1, e.g. the Charging Voltage, to get parameters for the power management IC.
I also read other devices on the bus besides the bq27541-G1 (0xAA/0xAB): These are i2c addresses 0x72/0x73, 0xD4/0xD5 and 0xEE/0xEF
I guess I will have to take a different approach... Modifying the kernel.
Actually, the problem is, I really don't know what a kernel is or does in the context of a complete android system. I never looked at different kernels and what they might offer. However, since the stock kernel (right?) doesn't expose any access to the Nexus power management IC, I will have to expose it myself... As far as I can tell, the ability is there ( https://android.googlesource.com/ke...3.4-kitkat-mr0/drivers/power/pm8921-charger.c ) and others, like "Timur's Kernel", seem to have been able to change parts of the power management within the kernel.
Is there someone of you out there who has some experience in compiling his own kernel and can tell me if that's the proper way to go?
RFZ said:
I guess I will have to take a different approach... Modifying the kernel.
Actually, the problem is, I really don't know what a kernel is or does in the context of a complete android system. I never looked at different kernels and what they might offer. However, since the stock kernel (right?) doesn't expose any access to the Nexus power management IC, I will have to expose it myself... As far as I can tell, the ability is there ( https://android.googlesource.com/ke...3.4-kitkat-mr0/drivers/power/pm8921-charger.c ) and others, like "Timur's Kernel", seem to have been able to change parts of the power management within the kernel.
Is there someone of you out there who has some experience in compiling his own kernel and can tell me if that's the proper way to go?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This one is for building AOSP kernel for Sony devices. However, the script might help you in the build: https://github.com/bamsbamx/aosp-sony-kernel/blob/aosp/LA.UM.5.7.r1/utils/build.sh
Keep in mind you will also need a toolchain.
Here is what the kernel looks like: https://github.com/bamsbamx/aosp-sony-kernel
Although it wont be easy at all if you never built one
Thx. I don't think building a kernel is that hard. For the Nexus 7, this should be well documented. ( e.g. http://pete.akeo.ie/2013/10/compiling-and-running-your-own-android.html and https://source.android.com/setup/building-kernels )
The other problem is to find out where to start modifying the stock kernel. I still think https://android.googlesource.com/ke...3.4-kitkat-mr0/drivers/power/pm8921-charger.c is the right place. Probably just overwriting pdata->max_voltage in https://android.googlesource.com/ke...itkat-mr0/drivers/power/pm8921-charger.c#4539 to 4000 does the trick. Or I have to find out where this platform data initially comes from.
Biggest problem is, without having any experience in compiling a kernel, I have no Idea how to debug the changes - e.g. how to look at the data pdata gets initialized with.
Okay, long story short: It works! :victory:
Actually, the Nexus 7 (2013) doesn't use "pm8921-charger" at all... It's using "smb345-charger" (SMB345ET-1850Y IC, haven't found a datasheet though ).
In smb345-charger.c the #define FLOAT_VOLT_43V 0x28 actually defines the max charging voltage. Despite the fact that I don't have a datasheet, I'm pretty sure the value represents the charging voltage in 20mV increments, starting at 3.50V (0x00) up to 4.76V (0x3F). 0x19 results in a charging voltage of 4.0V etc...
Since I'm obviously not able to compile my own kernel in just one day, I have to thank @pfent who did this for me :highfive:
The patched code can be found here on github.
What's the result? Well, the Nexus 7 (2013) now will top out charging at 4.0V and stay there. I hope this will noticeably increase the lifetime of the battery and especially prevent it from swelling. I don't know how or if this might effect / confuse the gas gauge meter on the battery or the devices capacity calculations, but I think it will be fine. We'll see in 1-2 years
Edit: Attached a charging curve screenshot. The battery is charged to 4.0V, then no current is flowing in or out the battery.
Edit 2: Looks like other kernels implemented similar features: https://github.com/flar2/flo-Elemen...7067e030e/drivers/power/smb345-charger.c#L958
After installing Magic Charging Switch disable charging.
RFZ said:
Hi,
I'm using some Nexus 7 (2013) with Android 4.4.4 as control panels, being 24/7 powered with an AC charger. After ~2 years operation, the batteries in my Nexus 7s expanded dramatically to the point I have to replace them. I guess it's due to them being constantly held at maximum level (4.25V) at a moderate temperature ~5°C above ambient. Since I don't really use the battery - and the Nexus 7 won't boot with the battery detached (tried it), I'm looking for a way to disable the battery charging via ac (and usb/wireless) completely via software, so I can make my own charging logic that tops the battery at ~3.80V which should make it way more happy.
I already did some research and found https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/54902/disable-usb-charging or https://android.gadgethacks.com/how...oid-device-avoid-excess-battery-wear-0176280/
Command "dumpsys battery set ac 0" or "dumpsys battery set status 4" didn't have an effect.
The file "/sys/class/power_supply/battery/charging_enabled" doesn't exist on the Nexus 7 (2013).
I do have root...
Can someone help me out?
Thx
@VR25
After installing Magic Charging Switch its disable charging. I am tried to disable/uninstall Module from magisk but still my mobile not charging. Disconnecting again and again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dinesh 1C0N said:
@VR25
After installing Magic Charging Switch its disable charging. I am tried to disable/uninstall Module from magisk but still my mobile not charging. Disconnecting again and again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What device is it?
If it's a Nexus 7, try echo 1 >/sys/devices/i2c-0/0-0055/battery_smbus.
BTW, aren't you in the wrong thread?
So I have the wireless charging mod and I have several wireless chargers “All the same brand and model” I mostly only use two. The one beside my bed and the one at work. I know this is going to sound crazy but when I use the charger beside my bed and charge to %100 the battery life is not nearly as long. It is enough to be VERY noticeable I have tested and compared like 6 times. Charging on both to 100% and just let the phone sit for an hour and when it is charged by the one beside my bed it drains about 20% faster. Can a charger effect battery life in this way????
Based on my experiences... yes!
enetec said:
Based on my experiences... yes!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never had that happen till now. I wonder if that particular charger is going bad or something
X_man. said:
I've never had that happen till now. I wonder if that particular charger is going bad or something
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Experiment... swap the chargers? bring the work one home and vice versa? maybe different mains or "dirty mains" could be the culprit? see if the issue follows the charger or area?
Uzephi said:
Experiment... swap the chargers? bring the work one home and vice versa? maybe different mains or "dirty mains" could be the culprit? see if the issue follows the charger or area?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea! I'll do that next week and post what happens.
X_man. said:
Great idea! I'll do that next week and post what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any time. I personally ran into that. It wasn't 20% more like 5% (average 3hr drain on my old Rezound was 2hrs and 45mins when charged from work. It was due to ingress on my work's lines that wasn't there at home. We had little oddities with some PC's until we found the UPS for our server was causing noise on our circuits).
This is absolutely normal. I build custom vape systems, some on li-poly Batts, some on li-ion. In both cases, charge rate -can- drastically affect charge effectiveness.
Most of this in your case likely has to do with thermal reads. Remember, not only is your phone and charger loaded with chips to be smart and safe about the charge, the battery (and sometimes individual cells within it) are also microchipped. Wireless charging creates a lot of heat. Should any one of the three components recognize this heat as excessive, the voltage will drop. I _believe_ this is most relevant during the end of "saturation" phase during charging, because if the battery says "no" during this phase, or anytime after (during completion/final) , the charger's subsequent "topping-charge" will also be denied. This kind of results in cycle of the charger saying "take it!" , The battery saying "no", dropping the voltage, the charger seeing the drop and expecting it to need a top-off and immediately trying to push again, repeat. The reason you're seeing the difference is because the charger is getting it's numbers from current output from the battery. The battery can drop down to zero current when overheated to prevent thermal rail? From occurring, which the charger then translates " 0 current must mean full".
That's one part of the difference, and not necessarily what is occurring... The other part has to do with manufacturing intent. Most USB 3.1/c power supplies are actually pushing out the maximum amperage and thus has a huge stage-1 charging state, with a minimum stage-2 (saturation) charging state. This basically translates into , your charger and phone are both lying when you rapid charge.
I'm sure I'm missing some facets or misrepresenting them here as I can't remember all the damn physics, but short story is: for absolute saturation, battery life, battery runtime, and safety... Charge at the same rate as battery discharge.
Edit: also what Uzephi mentioned about dirty power is also relevant. When power factors are not near 1.0 (1:1, meaning everything drawn is used, and everything requested is given), bad sh*t happens. This actually relates to the physical wave (sinusoidal) of electricity. All the anomalies are probably listed somewhere by some physicist, but suffice to say, there's a lot of possibilities, none of them "good" when out-of-phase power factors occur. This is why sensitive equipment almost always gets run through a power conditioner. The more sensitive and volatile the system, the more aggressive the conditioner needs to be (hence massive amplifiers for sound systems like the ones I use in my work need $200 glorified power strips).
Some_Donkus said:
This is absolutely normal. I build custom vape systems, some on li-poly Batts, some on li-ion. In both cases, charge rate -can- drastically affect charge effectiveness.
Most of this in your case likely has to do with thermal reads. Remember, not only is your phone and charger loaded with chips to be smart and safe about the charge, the battery (and sometimes individual cells within it) are also microchipped. Wireless charging creates a lot of heat. Should any one of the three components recognize this heat as excessive, the voltage will drop. I _believe_ this is most relevant during the end of "saturation" phase during charging, because if the battery says "no" during this phase, or anytime after (during completion/final) , the charger's subsequent "topping-charge" will also be denied. This kind of results in cycle of the charger saying "take it!" , The battery saying "no", dropping the voltage, the charger seeing the drop and expecting it to need a top-off and immediately trying to push again, repeat. The reason you're seeing the difference is because the charger is getting it's numbers from current output from the battery. The battery can drop down to zero current when overheated to prevent thermal rail? From occurring, which the charger then translates " 0 current must mean full".
That's one part of the difference, and not necessarily what is occurring... The other part has to do with manufacturing intent. Most USB 3.1/c power supplies are actually pushing out the maximum amperage and thus has a huge stage-1 charging state, with a minimum stage-2 (saturation) charging state. This basically translates into , your charger and phone are both lying when you rapid charge.
I'm sure I'm missing some facets or misrepresenting them here as I can't remember all the damn physics, but short story is: for absolute saturation, battery life, battery runtime, and safety... Charge at the same rate as battery discharge.
Edit: also what Uzephi mentioned about dirty power is also relevant. When power factors are not near 1.0 (1:1, meaning everything drawn is used, and everything requested is given), bad sh*t happens. This actually relates to the physical wave (sinusoidal) of electricity. All the anomalies are probably listed somewhere by some physicist, but suffice to say, there's a lot of possibilities, none of them "good" when out-of-phase power factors occur. This is why sensitive equipment almost always gets run through a power conditioner. The more sensitive and volatile the system, the more aggressive the conditioner needs to be (hence massive amplifiers for sound systems like the ones I use in my work need $200 glorified power strips).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some very good points! Doesn't seem quite as strange now LOL Thanks!
@Some_Donkus than for your complete explanation...
I've found even "about same rate" chargers (measured on phones...) often differs in heating battery: on my old Moto Z, the OnePlus X charger and the Samsung Galaxy Tab one both charged my phone (quite fast...), BUT the first heated it A LOT more, while the second hot A LOT itself!!
I think it's related to components quality too...
What I don't undestand well is why the Incipio MotoMod battery, which charge the phone at quite low rate, is able to heat it more than fast chargers....!?!?
enetec said:
@Some_Donkus than for your complete explanation...
I've found even "about same rate" chargers (measured on phones...) often differs in heating battery: on my old Moto Z, the OnePlus X charger and the Samsung Galaxy Tab one both charged my phone (quite fast...), BUT the first heated it A LOT more, while the second hot A LOT itself!!
I think it's related to components quality too...
What I don't undestand well is why the Incipio MotoMod battery, which charge the phone at quite low rate, is able to heat it more than fast chargers....!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without knowing the specific charge voltage and stage setup of the individual batteries it's tough to speculate. One thing that comes in mind relates back to the power factors I was speaking of. It might actually be a high quality device that just has a lot of extra MOSFET + capacitors built in. These are used in order to "clean and manage" power on the fly. Capacitors are used to provide extra little bumps of discharge / supply when the battery cells themselves can't necessarily output enough mA/amp in a peak. MOSFETs do the opposite, providing a safe gateway for extra unused power either coming into the device from the battery, or from outside power to charging battery...
Both of these little guys basically are giant heat retainers (MOSFETs actually usually have heatsinks pasted to them, even the micro sized ones used in small devices)....
Just a thought.
Some_Donkus said:
...
Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it surely could be but two weird things still happen with Incipio battery MOD (and, they say, NOT with the new Turbo Power which do fast charging instead! ):
- the overheat seems to be coming from the phone and not from the battery MOD...
- the Incipio battery MOD I have adds wireless charging too to the phone. What it's weird is that wireless charging phone (by the same rear connector on the phone) seems to overheat it less than using battery to charge it... (and battery charge rate is a bit lower...).
I think it could be related from the fact that battery MOD has probably to raise his voltage to charge phone... but strangely this overheats more phone than battery...!
enetec said:
Well, it surely could be but two weird things still happen with Incipio battery MOD (and, they say, NOT with the new Turbo Power which do fast charging instead! ):
- the overheat seems to be coming from the phone and not from the battery MOD...
- the Incipio battery MOD I have adds wireless charging too to the phone. What it's weird is that wireless charging phone (by the same rear connector on the phone) seems to overheat it less than using battery to charge it... (and battery charge rate is a bit lower...).
I think it could be related from the fact that battery MOD has probably to raise his voltage to charge phone... but strangely this overheats more phone than battery...!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohhh, I see what you're saying...
Okay well, from what I understand, the Incipio Wireless mod actually charges the phone's battery first, THEN the pack within the mod. By default, magnetic induction (wireless charging method) actually will charge everything and anything within the field simultaneously.. but.. what I assume the incipio mod does is this....
Wireless charger sends out induction wave > (Induction wave charges both internal battery and mod for a moment) > Incipio mod get's a mV current reading from phone's internal battery > If internal phone battery mV current is ≠ 0, Incipio mod uses MOSFET's to gate-drain incoming charge from wireless for X amount of time (and possibly send charge to internal battery via connectors) + > induction wave continues to charge internal phone battery > Incipio takes another mV current reading from phone battery to see if it's full >>>
Cycle continues until Incipio gets mV current reading = 0, at which point it stops using gate-drains and accepts induction wave charge.
^^^ -IF- that's accurate, then it would mean that the Incipio mod is passing it's charge into the phone battery (received from induction wave) at the same time that the internal phone battery is receiving the induction wave from pad... So that internal battery is receiving a shiz-load of joose quickly...
again, pure speculation.... but it would make sense...
I'm posting in the original Android development since I hope to get more involved people to help.
Hi all,
I want to wall mount my P600, I've already did this with Lenovo and Huawei tablets without any problem.
I'm powering my P600 by an external PSU set to 4.12V and connected directly to the battery terminals. The battery is removed. No battery is present, the power is stable up to 1-2mV ripple.
However the battery as percentage is lowering every minute until it reaches 1% and shuts down.
Changing the voltage just sets the battery percentage that shows up at startup, not the "battery" fake drainage. (eg 4.12V~87% 4.02V ~76% etc)
It doesn't matter what ROM I'm using.
This behaviour is also present if tablet is left standing at TWRP screen. So is not even kernel dependent.
Do you know of any kind of "timer" set in the bootloader or wherever that keeps showing battery as draining even though there is no battery present and the voltage is constant?
Thank you kindly.
I never heard of something like that. But it could be present in many devices.
The purpose is to turn device into a doorstop once the battery is dead, sort of.
The timer will allow to reset and precharge batteries where the safety circuit had been triggered, so they can be recognized again by the system. How long does it take to count to zero? Because it wouldn't make sense to wait longer to proceed to step 2 then. In the situation where the battery is just deep-discharged, which i encountered more than once on various devices.
Whether i'm correct or not, it seems the Note(and many or most other devices) becomes crap once there are no more replacement batteries,instead of serving many more years for specific purooses, like a digital picture frame or wall mounted terminal for smart home management.
Same idea
Hi! Did you or someone else ever figure out if the P600 could be well mounted without a battery? Which wires should be connected to the external power source if I'd try?
Big thanks in advance
In the meantime i heard from various people who just attached a stabilized DC source directly to the internal battery jack instead of usb. This should work with any device. The voltage should stay in the range of higher than 3,5 volts to a max of 4,2 volts, idle and load(for 3.7v battery replacement). So you can't use any cheap 5v source,that requires the voltage regulator behind the usb jack and before the battery.
Edit: After also re-reading the first post i see the isdue, which will strike all Note users. I think you have to provide the system with info about the battery capacity. This is normally either retrieved from the internal safety chip or measured during the first charge cycles. I don't have a clue how to hack this into the system before or after flashing.
Hello everybody.
I just want to share with you guys what I found out.
I've been using custom ROMs and custom kernels for LG V30, and I faced a lot of issues. The most common issue is overheating, especially on charging or using mobile data.
I use Anker's adapter that supports Quick Charge 3.0, and an Anker USB-C to USB-3.0 cable. I use Ampere app to see how the battery is charge.
On custom ROMs, the ampere number (mA) changes every few seconds, jumps up and down with big gap, and the phone gets very hot.
On stock ROM (US99820H) in my case, mA number is very stable. It increases or decreases slowly and doesn't jump up and down. On plugging in, min and max mA are equal. The phone is just a little bit hotter than before plugging in.
So I just wanted to share my own experience with you guys. If you want you phone to last long, use Stock ROMs, disable bloatwares and useless system apps.
I'm going to purchase the battery and change it myself for better battery life. I wanted to change to another phone but for now, this is the best phone for music.
Please discuss if you disagree with me or have a solution for custom ROMs.
minhntp said:
Hello everybody.
I just want to share with you guys what I found out.
I've been using custom ROMs and custom kernels for LG V30, and I faced a lot of issues. The most common issue is overheating, especially on charging or using mobile data.
I use Anker's adapter that supports Quick Charge 3.0, and an Anker USB-C to USB-3.0 cable. I use Ampere app to see how the battery is charge.
On custom ROMs, the ampere number (mA) changes every few seconds, jumps up and down with big gap, and the phone gets very hot.
On stock ROM (US99820H) in my case, mA number is very stable. It increases or decreases slowly and doesn't jump up and down. On plugging in, min and max mA are equal. The phone is just a little bit hotter than before plugging in.
So I just wanted to share my own experience with you guys. If you want you phone to last long, use Stock ROMs, disable bloatwares and useless system apps.
I'm going to purchase the battery and change it myself for better battery life. I wanted to change to another phone but for now, this is the best phone for music.
Please discuss if you disagree with me or have a solution for custom ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also felt the same...Though the charging speed on custom roms is higher...in terms of stability of current, Stock Rom is the best.
minhntp said:
Hello everybody.
I just want to share with you guys what I found out.
I've been using custom ROMs and custom kernels for LG V30, and I faced a lot of issues. The most common issue is overheating, especially on charging or using mobile data.
I use Anker's adapter that supports Quick Charge 3.0, and an Anker USB-C to USB-3.0 cable. I use Ampere app to see how the battery is charge.
On custom ROMs, the ampere number (mA) changes every few seconds, jumps up and down with big gap, and the phone gets very hot.
On stock ROM (US99820H) in my case, mA number is very stable. It increases or decreases slowly and doesn't jump up and down. On plugging in, min and max mA are equal. The phone is just a little bit hotter than before plugging in.
So I just wanted to share my own experience with you guys. If you want you phone to last long, use Stock ROMs, disable bloatwares and useless system apps.
I'm going to purchase the battery and change it myself for better battery life. I wanted to change to another phone but for now, this is the best phone for music.
Please discuss if you disagree with me or have a solution for custom ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In terms of stability, I have different results, when I charge using a custom rom the phone tends to stay cool, but when I used the stock rom the phone got a lot hotter then before charging.
Custom ROMs may not be utilizing QC properly. QC 2.0 has few discrete voltage/current steps, while QC 3.0 has many (200mA increments iirc) designed to strike a balance between charging speed and heat. Maybe it's getting stuck in QC 2.0 mode and the temperature feedback isn't working properly?
You could just use a non-fast-charging wireless charger, if you're only charging up at night. 5v/~1A is pretty much harmless, it's just on the slow side of things.
fyi, battery capacity (as tracked by the charging controller driver, I guess) is stored at sys/class/power_supply/bms/charge_full; it defaults to design capacity until a full charge cycle has been completed* and then I suppose is revised each time the driver tracks less energy has been stored after a complete charge. Cycle count, cell resistance and a couple other things are also stored here. I think all values are persistent until the battery is physically disconnected.
Might be worth doing a full discharge+charge (to 100%, then let it sit for a few hours to saturate) to see if your battery is worn enough to warrant pulling the phone apart. Accubattery does seem to be more or less accurate, so you charge while it's on you can get a real-time idea of how much has gone in.
* a full charge might be from 1% to 100%. It might be from 5% to 100%. Who knows! I've charged from 2% to 100% a couple times and not had cycle_count increase.
Also, if you do go shopping, beware of undersized batteries. I bought an "OE spec" battery a while ago that was obviously thinner and lighter than the original; it weighed some 12.5% less and only took a 3000mah charge, more or less lining up with the reduced weight. The seller was "tele*cell", and I very much doubt they're the only ones pulling this crap. Record the contents of power_supply/bms if they're important to you, too, as they zero out upon battery disconnect.
edit: hmm, thinking about it...bms = Battery Management System? (not this one specifically, of course)
Septfox said:
Also, if you do go shopping, beware of undersized batteries. I bought an "OE spec" battery a while ago that was obviously thinner and lighter than the original; it weighed some 12.5% less and only took a 3000mah charge, more or less lining up with the reduced weight. The seller was "tele*cell", and I very much doubt they're the only ones pulling this crap. Record the contents of power_supply/bms if they're important to you, too, as they zero out upon battery disconnect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is possible that you bought a smaller battery - but you should know that the capacity of Li** batteries increases within the first couple of cycles. Also usually the nominal capacity might be different from the real (typical) capacity. So you would need to meassure a.new original battery against your replacement battery (not take the value LG tells us for.granted)
daniu said:
It is possible that you bought a smaller battery - but you should know that the capacity of Li** batteries increases within the first couple of cycles. Also usually the nominal capacity might be different from the real (typical) capacity. So you would need to meassure a.new original battery against your replacement battery (not take the value LG tells us for.granted)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Li-po capacity hasn't really gone anywhere in a while, and I wouldn't expect cheap eBay batteries to be using the newest and best chemistry. It was definitely undersize/weight; I attached some pictures.
Because I wanted to be absolutely sure before I called the seller on it, I purposefully ran it four full cycles, then built up another two during normal use. The best capacity that the BMS ever rated it for was 2980mah, while Accubattery put in something like...3060mah once with subsequent charges in the 2900-3000 range.
While I get what you're saying, I find it unlikely that the BMS would set to the expected design capacity if they were using undersize batteries from the factory.
The reason being that at a guess, the battery "fuel gauge" is probably based on capacity_full, which = capacity_full_design until set. With a new phone that isn't charged to 100% (thus setting capacity_full), if using the phone down to 1% you'd risk either a) the phone suddenly shutting down at ~10% or b) overdischarge damage if the battery is actually less than the phone's design capacity.
Kind of a corner case though, I'll admit, since this would only be on the first run.
Last, I submit my own OEM battery for consideration: prior to taking it out, it had accumulated 537 cycles and had a recorded capacity of 2485mah. That's about what I'd expect from a 3300mah battery that was almost certainly used "normally" e.g. discharged daily, charged nightly and left on the tap at full charge for hours on end.
Like you said, though, the only way to know for sure would be testing a new OEM battery, and we've been fresh out of those for a year and a half now. Maybe someone could nab one from one of their newer models and test for science? I already have too many spare lipo cells laying around.
Septfox said:
Custom ROMs may not be utilizing QC properly. QC 2.0 has few discrete voltage/current steps, while QC 3.0 has many (200mA increments iirc) designed to strike a balance between charging speed and heat. Maybe it's getting stuck in QC 2.0 mode and the temperature feedback isn't working properly?
You could just use a non-fast-charging wireless charger, if you're only charging up at night. 5v/~1A is pretty much harmless, it's just on the slow side of things.
fyi, battery capacity (as tracked by the charging controller driver, I guess) is stored at sys/class/power_supply/bms/charge_full; it defaults to design capacity until a full charge cycle has been completed* and then I suppose is revised each time the driver tracks less energy has been stored after a complete charge. Cycle count, cell resistance and a couple other things are also stored here. I think all values are persistent until the battery is physically disconnected.
Might be worth doing a full discharge+charge (to 100%, then let it sit for a few hours to saturate) to see if your battery is worn enough to warrant pulling the phone apart. Accubattery does seem to be more or less accurate, so you charge while it's on you can get a real-time idea of how much has gone in.
* a full charge might be from 1% to 100%. It might be from 5% to 100%. Who knows! I've charged from 2% to 100% a couple times and not had cycle_count increase.
Also, if you do go shopping, beware of undersized batteries. I bought an "OE spec" battery a while ago that was obviously thinner and lighter than the original; it weighed some 12.5% less and only took a 3000mah charge, more or less lining up with the reduced weight. The seller was "tele*cell", and I very much doubt they're the only ones pulling this crap. Record the contents of power_supply/bms if they're important to you, too, as they zero out upon battery disconnect.
edit: hmm, thinking about it...bms = Battery Management System? (not this one specifically, of course)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have sleep problem after changing the battery? After changing the battery, my phone doesn't go to sleep when the screen is off, so the battery just keeps draining. I'm using stock ROM. I don't know if this is a software of hardware issue.
minhntp said:
Do you have sleep problem after changing the battery? After changing the battery, my phone doesn't go to sleep when the screen is off, so the battery just keeps draining. I'm using stock ROM. I don't know if this is a software of hardware issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing notable that happened was the battery stats getting wiped. Otherwise the phone behaved normally.
Try getting BetterBatteryStats, second post has the newest apk attached (2.3 iirc).
Start it up to get it established, Set Custom Ref. from the menu, shut the screen off for...ehh...20min.
Turn it back on, select Custom in the left drop-down menu and Current in the right drop-down menu.
Check Kernel Wakelocks and Partial Wakelocks using the top drop-down menu to see if anything sticks out.
Septfox said:
Li-po capacity hasn't really gone anywhere in a while, and I wouldn't expect cheap eBay batteries to be using the newest and best chemistry. It was definitely undersize/weight; I attached some pictures.
Because I wanted to be absolutely sure before I called the seller on it, I purposefully ran it four full cycles, then built up another two during normal use. The best capacity that the BMS ever rated it for was 2980mah, while Accubattery put in something like...3060mah once with subsequent charges in the 2900-3000 range.
While I get what you're saying, I find it unlikely that the BMS would set to the expected design capacity if they were using undersize batteries from the factory.
The reason being that at a guess, the battery "fuel gauge" is probably based on capacity_full, which = capacity_full_design until set. With a new phone that isn't charged to 100% (thus setting capacity_full), if using the phone down to 1% you'd risk either a) the phone suddenly shutting down at ~10% or b) overdischarge damage if the battery is actually less than the phone's design capacity.
Kind of a corner case though, I'll admit, since this would only be on the first run.
Last, I submit my own OEM battery for consideration: prior to taking it out, it had accumulated 537 cycles and had a recorded capacity of 2485mah. That's about what I'd expect from a 3300mah battery that was almost certainly used "normally" e.g. discharged daily, charged nightly and left on the tap at full charge for hours on end.
Like you said, though, the only way to know for sure would be testing a new OEM battery, and we've been fresh out of those for a year and a half now. Maybe someone could nab one from one of their newer models and test for science? I already have too many spare lipo cells laying around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is the full capacity when you put those 2 battery in?
I just bought a battery. This new one has 6 symbols each line (like the one you bought) and 2 lines of manufactured date. The old (original) one has 5 symbols each line and also 2 lines of manufatured date.
When I check "charge_full" after full charging, it shows 3312000 for the original battery and 3230000 for the new one, while the "charge_full_design" being 3312000 for both battery.
minhntp said:
What is the full capacity when you put those 2 battery in?
I just bought a battery. This new one has 6 symbols each line (like the one you bought) and 2 lines of manufactured date. The old (original) one has 5 symbols each line and also 2 lines of manufatured date.
When I check "charge_full" after full charging, it shows 3312000 for the original battery and 3230000 for the new one, while the "charge_full_design" being 3312000 for both battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All three batteries I've had showed the same 3312000 charge_full_design. But I'm not sure if this is relevant to us, aside from as a reference to compare to.
Out of curiosity and so I don't purposely give outright bad information, I went and looked at the kernel (up on github courtesy of lunar-kernels).
3300mah design capacity is set when the kernel is built (BLT34 battery profile, which is grabbed by the power manager).
I'm not sure where the number "3312000" specifically is coming from. I can't read the source for the BMS well enough to tell why it's coming up with that number, aside from it's a calculated result based on more than just the design capacity.
Based on the above and other behavior, I don't think any permanent information is stored with or retrieved from the battery itself; design parameters are set in the BLT34 profile and then the BMS amends certain things as it takes measurements. It assumes that whatever attached battery is actually 3300/3312mah until proven otherwise (calibrated with sufficient cycling).
Said measurements are stored ~somewhere~ outside of the ROM, recovery and download mode - mine persisted through the LAFsploit process and TWRP on both partitions - and cleared when power is lost. Maybe they're stored in RAM somewhere? Maybe the BMS notices the discontinuity in power and assumes a battery change, resetting everything? I'll try making sense of the kernel source to see...
The labeling difference is curious, and something I hadn't really given thought to. The newer ones have NOM and NYCE marks, which are Mexican safety approval things. It's interesting that the originals don't have them; maybe because LG doesn't make phones for the Mexican market and thus saw no need? I doubt these third-party manufacturers have gone out of their way to actually obtain said approval...probably just stuck them there to satisfy customs.
I bought a battery from another seller and installed it this weekend; it uses the 12-symbol style as well, has date+date code like the original (dated a rather shiny 2019.09.08!), and weighs the expected 48g/has an OE-style "stepped" back making it thicker.
Seems to charge fully and otherwise work as expected. charge_full still = charge_full_design, I'm not sure if this is because the BMS has determined that it's an OEM-capacity battery, or it hasn't cycled sufficiently to update. Gonna keep an eye on it. Pictures attached.
Edit: battery listing on ebay. Note if anyone else buys it: the suction cup that came with mine was 100% useless. Plan accordingly.
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A further note on the smaller battery I bought: it did perform admirably. It had no issues when using the phone as a power supply (~2.5A sustained output), right down to where I stopped it at 5%, which is rather abusive for cells in this form-factor. It was just...well...smaller. It certainly wasn't a bad battery at all, it was just misrepresented. Lighter/slightly-smaller batteries would make great travel batteries, if the V30 were swap-friendly...
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@Septfox
I hope you bought a good one.
The battery I bought lasts long, but also takes long to charge (about 2 hours). The phone shows fast-charging but when I check battery log in Hidden menu, it shows only Quick charge 2.0.
I found a way to reset the battery information, hopefully sellers don't use this to reset the cycle count.
There's a thread on xda that shows a method to reset battery information on HTC phones. That is holding down 2 volume buttons + power button (volume down + power for LG V30) in 2 minutes while the phone is being charged, let the phone restart as many times it takes in 2 minutes. And then charge the phone to full.
I did that and when I check in Hidden menu, the battery information was resetted to 3312000 full capacity and 0 cycle count.
minhntp said:
@Septfox
The battery I bought lasts long, but also takes long to charge (about 2 hours). The phone shows fast-charging but when I check battery log in Hidden menu, it shows only Quick charge 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QC 3.0 wouldn't outright increase the speed any; it exists to help reduce heat and provide more consistent charging.
If it makes you feel any better, mine is also getting stuck on QC 2.0. Judging by the way the Parallel Charging status flickers on and off as I move the cable and put pressure on the connector, I could probably stand to get a new charging port...
This is why wireless charging is a good idea. But now that I think about it, replacement boards are cheap on ebay ($5), so replacing it each time the battery is changed might be a good bit of cheap maintenance to do :good:
Have you tried a different cable and/or charger to see if your charging improves? Maybe you need a new port, too.
minhntp said:
I found a way to reset the battery information, hopefully sellers don't use this to reset the cycle count.
There's a thread on xda that shows a method to reset battery information on HTC phones. That is holding down 2 volume buttons + power button (volume down + power for LG V30) in 2 minutes while the phone is being charged, let the phone restart as many times it takes in 2 minutes. And then charge the phone to full.
I did that and when I check in Hidden menu, the battery information was resetted to 3312000 full capacity and 0 cycle count.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find this slightly alarming, actually...
The normal button combination to hard-reset the phone is power+vol down. This might just be what's happening, and by making the phone do it repeatedly, the firmware might be interpreting it as a bootloop condition caused by something in memory and completely disconnecting power in an attempt to mitigate it (clearing the battery stats in the process). Probably harmless though.
Dunno that a seller would bother trying it, though. What do they get out of it, other than a seemingly-new battery with less capacity than it should have? It would just recalibrate when charged and show the real capacity in the hidden menu, and the game would be up :v
Septfox said:
QC 3.0 wouldn't outright increase the speed any; it exists to help reduce heat and provide more consistent charging.
If it makes you feel any better, mine is also getting stuck on QC 2.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All V30 always show QuickCharge 2.0 in Nougat as well as Oreo. Not sure about Pie.
Speculation was it was a script error, that it was really 3.0 -- but falsely shows 2.0.
Can't remember if it was ever proven one way or the other.
I do remember people say it now charges slower on Pie. Again speculative because LG knows batteries are older?
I'm still on rooted Oreo, so I don't care.
ChazzMatt said:
I do remember people say it now charges slower on Pie. Again speculative because LG knows batteries are older?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't notice my phone charging any different. Even when using wired.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
ChazzMatt said:
All V30 always show QuickCharge 2.0 in Nougat as well as Oreo. Not sure about Pie.
Speculation was it was a script error, that it was really 3.0 -- but falsely shows 2.0.
Can't remember if it was ever proven one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read "the display may not be correct, so you should totally use this as an excuse to get a newer charger-doctor that supports QC".
...and you're completely right, I'm gonna go do that :v
ChazzMatt said:
I do remember people say it now charges slower on Pie. Again speculative because LG knows batteries are older?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or to mitigate further aging by reducing internal heat. I also remember seeing somewhere that it was limited to 12w or 13w, now that you mention it, though that might have been for 15w wireless which has a reputation for slow-cooking the battery (in any phone, not just the V30).