Hello everybody.
I just want to share with you guys what I found out.
I've been using custom ROMs and custom kernels for LG V30, and I faced a lot of issues. The most common issue is overheating, especially on charging or using mobile data.
I use Anker's adapter that supports Quick Charge 3.0, and an Anker USB-C to USB-3.0 cable. I use Ampere app to see how the battery is charge.
On custom ROMs, the ampere number (mA) changes every few seconds, jumps up and down with big gap, and the phone gets very hot.
On stock ROM (US99820H) in my case, mA number is very stable. It increases or decreases slowly and doesn't jump up and down. On plugging in, min and max mA are equal. The phone is just a little bit hotter than before plugging in.
So I just wanted to share my own experience with you guys. If you want you phone to last long, use Stock ROMs, disable bloatwares and useless system apps.
I'm going to purchase the battery and change it myself for better battery life. I wanted to change to another phone but for now, this is the best phone for music.
Please discuss if you disagree with me or have a solution for custom ROMs.
minhntp said:
Hello everybody.
I just want to share with you guys what I found out.
I've been using custom ROMs and custom kernels for LG V30, and I faced a lot of issues. The most common issue is overheating, especially on charging or using mobile data.
I use Anker's adapter that supports Quick Charge 3.0, and an Anker USB-C to USB-3.0 cable. I use Ampere app to see how the battery is charge.
On custom ROMs, the ampere number (mA) changes every few seconds, jumps up and down with big gap, and the phone gets very hot.
On stock ROM (US99820H) in my case, mA number is very stable. It increases or decreases slowly and doesn't jump up and down. On plugging in, min and max mA are equal. The phone is just a little bit hotter than before plugging in.
So I just wanted to share my own experience with you guys. If you want you phone to last long, use Stock ROMs, disable bloatwares and useless system apps.
I'm going to purchase the battery and change it myself for better battery life. I wanted to change to another phone but for now, this is the best phone for music.
Please discuss if you disagree with me or have a solution for custom ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also felt the same...Though the charging speed on custom roms is higher...in terms of stability of current, Stock Rom is the best.
minhntp said:
Hello everybody.
I just want to share with you guys what I found out.
I've been using custom ROMs and custom kernels for LG V30, and I faced a lot of issues. The most common issue is overheating, especially on charging or using mobile data.
I use Anker's adapter that supports Quick Charge 3.0, and an Anker USB-C to USB-3.0 cable. I use Ampere app to see how the battery is charge.
On custom ROMs, the ampere number (mA) changes every few seconds, jumps up and down with big gap, and the phone gets very hot.
On stock ROM (US99820H) in my case, mA number is very stable. It increases or decreases slowly and doesn't jump up and down. On plugging in, min and max mA are equal. The phone is just a little bit hotter than before plugging in.
So I just wanted to share my own experience with you guys. If you want you phone to last long, use Stock ROMs, disable bloatwares and useless system apps.
I'm going to purchase the battery and change it myself for better battery life. I wanted to change to another phone but for now, this is the best phone for music.
Please discuss if you disagree with me or have a solution for custom ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In terms of stability, I have different results, when I charge using a custom rom the phone tends to stay cool, but when I used the stock rom the phone got a lot hotter then before charging.
Custom ROMs may not be utilizing QC properly. QC 2.0 has few discrete voltage/current steps, while QC 3.0 has many (200mA increments iirc) designed to strike a balance between charging speed and heat. Maybe it's getting stuck in QC 2.0 mode and the temperature feedback isn't working properly?
You could just use a non-fast-charging wireless charger, if you're only charging up at night. 5v/~1A is pretty much harmless, it's just on the slow side of things.
fyi, battery capacity (as tracked by the charging controller driver, I guess) is stored at sys/class/power_supply/bms/charge_full; it defaults to design capacity until a full charge cycle has been completed* and then I suppose is revised each time the driver tracks less energy has been stored after a complete charge. Cycle count, cell resistance and a couple other things are also stored here. I think all values are persistent until the battery is physically disconnected.
Might be worth doing a full discharge+charge (to 100%, then let it sit for a few hours to saturate) to see if your battery is worn enough to warrant pulling the phone apart. Accubattery does seem to be more or less accurate, so you charge while it's on you can get a real-time idea of how much has gone in.
* a full charge might be from 1% to 100%. It might be from 5% to 100%. Who knows! I've charged from 2% to 100% a couple times and not had cycle_count increase.
Also, if you do go shopping, beware of undersized batteries. I bought an "OE spec" battery a while ago that was obviously thinner and lighter than the original; it weighed some 12.5% less and only took a 3000mah charge, more or less lining up with the reduced weight. The seller was "tele*cell", and I very much doubt they're the only ones pulling this crap. Record the contents of power_supply/bms if they're important to you, too, as they zero out upon battery disconnect.
edit: hmm, thinking about it...bms = Battery Management System? (not this one specifically, of course)
Septfox said:
Also, if you do go shopping, beware of undersized batteries. I bought an "OE spec" battery a while ago that was obviously thinner and lighter than the original; it weighed some 12.5% less and only took a 3000mah charge, more or less lining up with the reduced weight. The seller was "tele*cell", and I very much doubt they're the only ones pulling this crap. Record the contents of power_supply/bms if they're important to you, too, as they zero out upon battery disconnect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is possible that you bought a smaller battery - but you should know that the capacity of Li** batteries increases within the first couple of cycles. Also usually the nominal capacity might be different from the real (typical) capacity. So you would need to meassure a.new original battery against your replacement battery (not take the value LG tells us for.granted)
daniu said:
It is possible that you bought a smaller battery - but you should know that the capacity of Li** batteries increases within the first couple of cycles. Also usually the nominal capacity might be different from the real (typical) capacity. So you would need to meassure a.new original battery against your replacement battery (not take the value LG tells us for.granted)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Li-po capacity hasn't really gone anywhere in a while, and I wouldn't expect cheap eBay batteries to be using the newest and best chemistry. It was definitely undersize/weight; I attached some pictures.
Because I wanted to be absolutely sure before I called the seller on it, I purposefully ran it four full cycles, then built up another two during normal use. The best capacity that the BMS ever rated it for was 2980mah, while Accubattery put in something like...3060mah once with subsequent charges in the 2900-3000 range.
While I get what you're saying, I find it unlikely that the BMS would set to the expected design capacity if they were using undersize batteries from the factory.
The reason being that at a guess, the battery "fuel gauge" is probably based on capacity_full, which = capacity_full_design until set. With a new phone that isn't charged to 100% (thus setting capacity_full), if using the phone down to 1% you'd risk either a) the phone suddenly shutting down at ~10% or b) overdischarge damage if the battery is actually less than the phone's design capacity.
Kind of a corner case though, I'll admit, since this would only be on the first run.
Last, I submit my own OEM battery for consideration: prior to taking it out, it had accumulated 537 cycles and had a recorded capacity of 2485mah. That's about what I'd expect from a 3300mah battery that was almost certainly used "normally" e.g. discharged daily, charged nightly and left on the tap at full charge for hours on end.
Like you said, though, the only way to know for sure would be testing a new OEM battery, and we've been fresh out of those for a year and a half now. Maybe someone could nab one from one of their newer models and test for science? I already have too many spare lipo cells laying around.
Septfox said:
Custom ROMs may not be utilizing QC properly. QC 2.0 has few discrete voltage/current steps, while QC 3.0 has many (200mA increments iirc) designed to strike a balance between charging speed and heat. Maybe it's getting stuck in QC 2.0 mode and the temperature feedback isn't working properly?
You could just use a non-fast-charging wireless charger, if you're only charging up at night. 5v/~1A is pretty much harmless, it's just on the slow side of things.
fyi, battery capacity (as tracked by the charging controller driver, I guess) is stored at sys/class/power_supply/bms/charge_full; it defaults to design capacity until a full charge cycle has been completed* and then I suppose is revised each time the driver tracks less energy has been stored after a complete charge. Cycle count, cell resistance and a couple other things are also stored here. I think all values are persistent until the battery is physically disconnected.
Might be worth doing a full discharge+charge (to 100%, then let it sit for a few hours to saturate) to see if your battery is worn enough to warrant pulling the phone apart. Accubattery does seem to be more or less accurate, so you charge while it's on you can get a real-time idea of how much has gone in.
* a full charge might be from 1% to 100%. It might be from 5% to 100%. Who knows! I've charged from 2% to 100% a couple times and not had cycle_count increase.
Also, if you do go shopping, beware of undersized batteries. I bought an "OE spec" battery a while ago that was obviously thinner and lighter than the original; it weighed some 12.5% less and only took a 3000mah charge, more or less lining up with the reduced weight. The seller was "tele*cell", and I very much doubt they're the only ones pulling this crap. Record the contents of power_supply/bms if they're important to you, too, as they zero out upon battery disconnect.
edit: hmm, thinking about it...bms = Battery Management System? (not this one specifically, of course)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have sleep problem after changing the battery? After changing the battery, my phone doesn't go to sleep when the screen is off, so the battery just keeps draining. I'm using stock ROM. I don't know if this is a software of hardware issue.
minhntp said:
Do you have sleep problem after changing the battery? After changing the battery, my phone doesn't go to sleep when the screen is off, so the battery just keeps draining. I'm using stock ROM. I don't know if this is a software of hardware issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing notable that happened was the battery stats getting wiped. Otherwise the phone behaved normally.
Try getting BetterBatteryStats, second post has the newest apk attached (2.3 iirc).
Start it up to get it established, Set Custom Ref. from the menu, shut the screen off for...ehh...20min.
Turn it back on, select Custom in the left drop-down menu and Current in the right drop-down menu.
Check Kernel Wakelocks and Partial Wakelocks using the top drop-down menu to see if anything sticks out.
Septfox said:
Li-po capacity hasn't really gone anywhere in a while, and I wouldn't expect cheap eBay batteries to be using the newest and best chemistry. It was definitely undersize/weight; I attached some pictures.
Because I wanted to be absolutely sure before I called the seller on it, I purposefully ran it four full cycles, then built up another two during normal use. The best capacity that the BMS ever rated it for was 2980mah, while Accubattery put in something like...3060mah once with subsequent charges in the 2900-3000 range.
While I get what you're saying, I find it unlikely that the BMS would set to the expected design capacity if they were using undersize batteries from the factory.
The reason being that at a guess, the battery "fuel gauge" is probably based on capacity_full, which = capacity_full_design until set. With a new phone that isn't charged to 100% (thus setting capacity_full), if using the phone down to 1% you'd risk either a) the phone suddenly shutting down at ~10% or b) overdischarge damage if the battery is actually less than the phone's design capacity.
Kind of a corner case though, I'll admit, since this would only be on the first run.
Last, I submit my own OEM battery for consideration: prior to taking it out, it had accumulated 537 cycles and had a recorded capacity of 2485mah. That's about what I'd expect from a 3300mah battery that was almost certainly used "normally" e.g. discharged daily, charged nightly and left on the tap at full charge for hours on end.
Like you said, though, the only way to know for sure would be testing a new OEM battery, and we've been fresh out of those for a year and a half now. Maybe someone could nab one from one of their newer models and test for science? I already have too many spare lipo cells laying around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is the full capacity when you put those 2 battery in?
I just bought a battery. This new one has 6 symbols each line (like the one you bought) and 2 lines of manufactured date. The old (original) one has 5 symbols each line and also 2 lines of manufatured date.
When I check "charge_full" after full charging, it shows 3312000 for the original battery and 3230000 for the new one, while the "charge_full_design" being 3312000 for both battery.
minhntp said:
What is the full capacity when you put those 2 battery in?
I just bought a battery. This new one has 6 symbols each line (like the one you bought) and 2 lines of manufactured date. The old (original) one has 5 symbols each line and also 2 lines of manufatured date.
When I check "charge_full" after full charging, it shows 3312000 for the original battery and 3230000 for the new one, while the "charge_full_design" being 3312000 for both battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All three batteries I've had showed the same 3312000 charge_full_design. But I'm not sure if this is relevant to us, aside from as a reference to compare to.
Out of curiosity and so I don't purposely give outright bad information, I went and looked at the kernel (up on github courtesy of lunar-kernels).
3300mah design capacity is set when the kernel is built (BLT34 battery profile, which is grabbed by the power manager).
I'm not sure where the number "3312000" specifically is coming from. I can't read the source for the BMS well enough to tell why it's coming up with that number, aside from it's a calculated result based on more than just the design capacity.
Based on the above and other behavior, I don't think any permanent information is stored with or retrieved from the battery itself; design parameters are set in the BLT34 profile and then the BMS amends certain things as it takes measurements. It assumes that whatever attached battery is actually 3300/3312mah until proven otherwise (calibrated with sufficient cycling).
Said measurements are stored ~somewhere~ outside of the ROM, recovery and download mode - mine persisted through the LAFsploit process and TWRP on both partitions - and cleared when power is lost. Maybe they're stored in RAM somewhere? Maybe the BMS notices the discontinuity in power and assumes a battery change, resetting everything? I'll try making sense of the kernel source to see...
The labeling difference is curious, and something I hadn't really given thought to. The newer ones have NOM and NYCE marks, which are Mexican safety approval things. It's interesting that the originals don't have them; maybe because LG doesn't make phones for the Mexican market and thus saw no need? I doubt these third-party manufacturers have gone out of their way to actually obtain said approval...probably just stuck them there to satisfy customs.
I bought a battery from another seller and installed it this weekend; it uses the 12-symbol style as well, has date+date code like the original (dated a rather shiny 2019.09.08!), and weighs the expected 48g/has an OE-style "stepped" back making it thicker.
Seems to charge fully and otherwise work as expected. charge_full still = charge_full_design, I'm not sure if this is because the BMS has determined that it's an OEM-capacity battery, or it hasn't cycled sufficiently to update. Gonna keep an eye on it. Pictures attached.
Edit: battery listing on ebay. Note if anyone else buys it: the suction cup that came with mine was 100% useless. Plan accordingly.
-
A further note on the smaller battery I bought: it did perform admirably. It had no issues when using the phone as a power supply (~2.5A sustained output), right down to where I stopped it at 5%, which is rather abusive for cells in this form-factor. It was just...well...smaller. It certainly wasn't a bad battery at all, it was just misrepresented. Lighter/slightly-smaller batteries would make great travel batteries, if the V30 were swap-friendly...
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@Septfox
I hope you bought a good one.
The battery I bought lasts long, but also takes long to charge (about 2 hours). The phone shows fast-charging but when I check battery log in Hidden menu, it shows only Quick charge 2.0.
I found a way to reset the battery information, hopefully sellers don't use this to reset the cycle count.
There's a thread on xda that shows a method to reset battery information on HTC phones. That is holding down 2 volume buttons + power button (volume down + power for LG V30) in 2 minutes while the phone is being charged, let the phone restart as many times it takes in 2 minutes. And then charge the phone to full.
I did that and when I check in Hidden menu, the battery information was resetted to 3312000 full capacity and 0 cycle count.
minhntp said:
@Septfox
The battery I bought lasts long, but also takes long to charge (about 2 hours). The phone shows fast-charging but when I check battery log in Hidden menu, it shows only Quick charge 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QC 3.0 wouldn't outright increase the speed any; it exists to help reduce heat and provide more consistent charging.
If it makes you feel any better, mine is also getting stuck on QC 2.0. Judging by the way the Parallel Charging status flickers on and off as I move the cable and put pressure on the connector, I could probably stand to get a new charging port...
This is why wireless charging is a good idea. But now that I think about it, replacement boards are cheap on ebay ($5), so replacing it each time the battery is changed might be a good bit of cheap maintenance to do :good:
Have you tried a different cable and/or charger to see if your charging improves? Maybe you need a new port, too.
minhntp said:
I found a way to reset the battery information, hopefully sellers don't use this to reset the cycle count.
There's a thread on xda that shows a method to reset battery information on HTC phones. That is holding down 2 volume buttons + power button (volume down + power for LG V30) in 2 minutes while the phone is being charged, let the phone restart as many times it takes in 2 minutes. And then charge the phone to full.
I did that and when I check in Hidden menu, the battery information was resetted to 3312000 full capacity and 0 cycle count.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find this slightly alarming, actually...
The normal button combination to hard-reset the phone is power+vol down. This might just be what's happening, and by making the phone do it repeatedly, the firmware might be interpreting it as a bootloop condition caused by something in memory and completely disconnecting power in an attempt to mitigate it (clearing the battery stats in the process). Probably harmless though.
Dunno that a seller would bother trying it, though. What do they get out of it, other than a seemingly-new battery with less capacity than it should have? It would just recalibrate when charged and show the real capacity in the hidden menu, and the game would be up :v
Septfox said:
QC 3.0 wouldn't outright increase the speed any; it exists to help reduce heat and provide more consistent charging.
If it makes you feel any better, mine is also getting stuck on QC 2.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All V30 always show QuickCharge 2.0 in Nougat as well as Oreo. Not sure about Pie.
Speculation was it was a script error, that it was really 3.0 -- but falsely shows 2.0.
Can't remember if it was ever proven one way or the other.
I do remember people say it now charges slower on Pie. Again speculative because LG knows batteries are older?
I'm still on rooted Oreo, so I don't care.
ChazzMatt said:
I do remember people say it now charges slower on Pie. Again speculative because LG knows batteries are older?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't notice my phone charging any different. Even when using wired.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
ChazzMatt said:
All V30 always show QuickCharge 2.0 in Nougat as well as Oreo. Not sure about Pie.
Speculation was it was a script error, that it was really 3.0 -- but falsely shows 2.0.
Can't remember if it was ever proven one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read "the display may not be correct, so you should totally use this as an excuse to get a newer charger-doctor that supports QC".
...and you're completely right, I'm gonna go do that :v
ChazzMatt said:
I do remember people say it now charges slower on Pie. Again speculative because LG knows batteries are older?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or to mitigate further aging by reducing internal heat. I also remember seeing somewhere that it was limited to 12w or 13w, now that you mention it, though that might have been for 15w wireless which has a reputation for slow-cooking the battery (in any phone, not just the V30).
Related
Hi all,
My battery drains really fast, faster than normal if I see the replies to the calibration thread. After less than half a day (as in 6hours) with wifi turned on and "playing" a bit with it (exploring apps, check them out etc.), say about 2hours of intensive use, my battery is at 25%. It never lasted longer than 24h, that's with wifi off most of the time. Running CoPilot it lasts only 2-3hours. I tried the calibration for nexus one posted in android dev forum several times, including battery stats wipe. It's at 29% but overcharged says 3762mV, also if fully charged it never goes above a certain V which I don't remember right now but I'll post back when it's fully charged The V it stays at is a lot lower than the replies on the calibration thread said it should be, that's why I'm think my battery doesn't charge fully.
I'm running LeeDroiD with no setCPU.
Is this behavior normal? Do these mV's correspond with the batt %? (29% <> 3762mV)
Thanks!
I'm using Leedroid as well, but I don't see excessive battery usage.. Most of the time I can survive for > 12 hrs..
from my Desire + XDA App
I have the same problems as you with a short battery life, I upgraded the battery to one with a larger capacity but that makes no difference, I have been told that this is a common problem and a fix will be out in the near future from HTC.
I also use Co-Pilot and when I ran it the battery could not keep up, I bought a car charger from e-bay and it may be a fake and I now have the new charger with the USB plug and that works ok, if you have a car USB charger try using it with the original sync cable, if the battery stays full then the old charger is at fault. My understanding is that there are a lot of fake chargers and accessories out there and they look the part but do not supply enough power to run with the phone running Co-Pilot.
Hope this helps.
iveco420 said:
I have the same problems as you with a short battery life, I upgraded the battery to one with a larger capacity but that makes no difference, I have been told that this is a common problem and a fix will be out in the near future from HTC.
I also use Co-Pilot and when I ran it the battery could not keep up, I bought a car charger from e-bay and it may be a fake and I now have the new charger with the USB plug and that works ok, if you have a car USB charger try using it with the original sync cable, if the battery stays full then the old charger is at fault. My understanding is that there are a lot of fake chargers and accessories out there and they look the part but do not supply enough power to run with the phone running Co-Pilot.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply. I meamt that woth copilot running on pure battery, with the charger connected no problems.. good to know that i'm not the only one woth this prob.
iveco420 said:
I have the same problems as you with a short battery life, I upgraded the battery to one with a larger capacity but that makes no difference, I have been told that this is a common problem and a fix will be out in the near future from HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lot of the extended batteries on the market are well below their advertised capacities (see here). I've not heard of any official "fixes" for battery life, but then again I get 30+ hours from a charge,
Regards,
Dave
Yeah I'm not gonna buy a non-genuine battery; simply don't trust them.
I have spoken to HTC about the battery problem a few times and according to the guy I spoke too there is a patch that will be released soon, I dont know the exact details but it is supposed to help the battery life, my phone would be dead if I ran Co-Pilot for an hour.
I am now using a 1600mAH instead of the standerd 1400mAH, the battery is the same size as the original and was supplied from a trusted manufacturer. I have also killed my task killer and will wait and see what happens, some people say that its not neded or HTC would have built one into the software, so I will give it a go for a week or so and see what how it works out.
Well hope this "patch" helps and it'll be integrated in the custom roms. However, a task killer isn't necessary because of the way android is designed. Apps get hibernated as soon as they don't require any interaction/resources anymore (eg. Load a webpage and immediatly go to home; Internet will load its webpage and as soon as it's loaded the Internet app goes into hibernation so effectively its killed just takes some ram (i think), at least it doesn't use any resources at this point anymore).
Services, however, run continuously and do indeed take battery the whole time.
Additional information I have gained through personal experience:
If you KNOW your battery is good, you can increase the battery capacity to 1500mAH without failure, and increase your usage rate somewhat.
I cannot guarantee this will work for everyone, but in the past I have had no issues running either of my good batteries with 2400 units.
I unplugged my phone this morning at around 5:30AM and only used it for one phone call, some facebooking and some market searching ("Waze"). I am currently at 47% battery with 1156 of 2400 units as of 8:45PM.
Again, I wouldn't try this with a bad battery as increasing this number lowers the actual mAH number that the phone needs to properly display the "please charge your phone" message when the battery falls below 15%. I learned this by watching the phone drop to 0% and stay there an estimated 2 hours and 45 minutes with light use and a good battery. The marked bad battery would say fully charged for a couple hours and suddenly drop to 15% and last maybe 30 minutes in this state before finally dying out. And that was with a standard 2150 units marker. Increasing the number of units increases the "span" of usable power from the baseline of 4.2 volts to below the 3.7 volt limit.
Hope my explanation wasn't too boring and someone has good luck doing this as I have...
Actually, changing the number of units has absolutely no effect on how long the battery lasts. It just makes the meter more or less accurate. Check out this old thread where I worked with several others to figure out how the battery meter works, and how to make it as accurate as possible.
If you are having a hard time believing me, please try measuring the time between unplugging with a full charge and the phone dying: with various high and low numbers of units. You'll find that although the meter changes dramatically, the actually battery life does not. But don't do that unless you really need to be convinced, because such 100% to 0% cycles are really bad for your battery.
I use the standard 1350mAH setting for my battery, which is 2170 units roughly. The please charge your battery appears at 10% everytime, and will drain to 0% and hold for about 10 minutes before dying.
So yes, n2rjt is correct. Changing to mAH has 0 effect on the battery life, but how the battery meter is displaying the current charge.
So the matrix at which the battery charge is displayed is adjusted by the amount of "units" displayed under a "FN-Left Softkey" screen. I understand that the battery is only good for 1350MAh, but that does not explain the findings I have on 2 almost identical Kaisers, which is the shut-off on 2150-2170 units comes much sooner than if set to 2350 or 2400.
Is it possible that, with the newer .32.9 kernels, the processor/radio/GPS/etc. or something else is not drawing as much power with my different unit settings?
I can reflash a new kernel with the standard 2150 unit setting, install a clean Froyo on both and pull the sim and SD cards in an attempt to test my theory if needed, but I find it strange that the actual "daily use" battery levels had increased after using 2400 as a blueprint for the battery.
I trust y'alls judgement on this, and I'm not trying to throw stones in a glass house, I'm just sharing my experience.
Testing is done on both phones. The phones were both set up identically with the only difference being the amount of units used for battery status.
Both phones had no sim card installed, radio 1.70.19.09, 2.6.32.9 kernel flashed theough RUU, identical Samsung 1350mah KAIS160 batteries, and identical 256mb Sandisk microSD cards. No other files were placed on the SD cards other than what would be needed to install Android and updates through replimenu 0.9.
(Luckily I had a spare phone or I wouldn't have been able to do this.)
Parameters for the testing were:
1. Flash L1q1d kernel on both phones, one set to 2150 units, the other at 2400.
2. Install Froyo through replimenu and recharge phones
3. remove both phones from their chargers at the same time and see which dies first.
(2 cheap "PW-1BGT" chargers used and swapped between phones).
Under the circumstances, I did find the 2400 phone to last longer, albeit only a short period (2 hours and 20 minutes average)... Not enough to prove a real leap in battery performance.
It took me almost a week to perform this test but the results were less than great, even after the first result of 3 hours and 10 minutes difference came through. I think one phone may have a better charging system as the results varied more than 1 hour across 2 phones. Once the batteries were swapped I noticed a slightly longer charge time on one phone that swapping chargers did not fix.
All-in-all this was an experience to say the least. I will say that there is a variance in the charging ability of one of the phones in that it seems to provide a slower charge, which could be why it seems to last longer. Although I flashed both phones with the unit count swapped, the "older" Kaiser seemed to be the winner in battery life. There was only a slight (30-45 minute) difference between them in both scenarios, and I don't think this difference would show up had the radios been on.
On a last note, IBM wrote a supplement for their Thinkpad series of notebook computers
www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/PFAN-3QNQJN.html
In this document is stated that Ni-MH batteries should be deep-cycled but not Li-Ion. Our phones never pull the battery down below the 2.8 volt threshold as the phone won't stay on or even start in this condition.
In closing, I think the difference is in what the phone "sees" as a battery voltage and afixes a place marker for when the shutdown should occur. I've had the phone sit at 0% for a couple hours on 2150 units, but not with the 2400 setting; 0% only lasts 45 minutes to an hour @ 2400 units with radio, GPS and data on.
After about 2 weeks of continued use, I have noticed a trend... a good one, I think.
The amount of units displayed to Android through the kernel has increased, apparently on it's own.
I started with 2400 units almost 2 weeks ago; I am now just over 2510 adjusted, with no outside influence by me. I have not changed anything about what I do with the phone on a daily basis.
I noticed this after not paying it much attention because each day of the week is almost exactly the same (up at 4am, phone off charger at 4:45, use it at work and home, plug it back in at 10pm).
Anyone want to bite into this one, or y'all just think I'm full of it?
(I almost wish I could take screenies of the "Fn-left soft key" screen)...
You're too new on this matter. The Kernel, last i remember, was altered to try and detect if the battery is in a better state (or bigger than the stock) than originaly thought. So, it is increasing the units to compensate the max mah it detects when the charging start to get really low.
Go read some threads! you'll find it rejuvenating
daedric said:
You're too new on this matter. The Kernel, last i remember, was altered to try and detect if the battery is in a better state (or bigger than the stock) than originaly thought. So, it is increasing the units to compensate the max mah it detects when the charging start to get really low.
Go read some threads! you'll find it rejuvenating
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed! Try entering that larger amount next time you edit your kernel, and you might find it to be more accurate. That's why it adjusts over time. It does NOT remember the recalibrated number across reboots, because there are too many reasons the auto-calibration can be wrong.
Weird
Well thats weird,
I have Kaiser with uptime for more than 350 hours and my adjusted value is now 3091.
And it last for two days.
Battery is standard 1350mAh
frantisek.sobota said:
Well thats weird,
I have Kaiser with uptime for more than 350 hours and my adjusted value is now 3091.
And it last for two days.
Battery is standard 1350mAh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
n2rjt said:
It does NOT remember the recalibrated number across reboots, because there are too many reasons the auto-calibration can be wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you've probably found one of them.
I'm lucky to get a day's worth, lol. Granted I'm running an experimental Kernel that I'm working on for boosting battery life while phone is in use.
Battery info via Spare Parts battery information page:
level 83
scale 100
health good
voltage 4018
temp (always) 36.8º
tech Li-ion
time since boot 2:19:45
I can't remember what the values were with a 1350 setting, but this seems to be working somewhat to my favor at 1500mAH.
2 weeks later and still going well into the 2400s'. 2482 to be exact with one adjusted rate being 2517...
Only difference noted is that the battery light only goes red at 9% or lower remaining.
Battery status update 7/22/11
Phone taken off charger at 5:40am... Facebook, Google+, texting and one 3 minute call so far today.
Currently @ 1:15pm...
70% remaining
3.923v
Battery counter at 2632, does NOT hold across reboots but Scoot's kernel keeps reboots to a minimum.
If anyone cares...lol.
So the battery life absolutely sucks on my One. If I start using it at 8am its dead by 5 pm. And that's just normal usage like surfing the web over WiFi, playing games (candy crush, dots, angry birds space,) maybe watching a few short videos over WiFi and the occasional text message. I have a battery saver app and I can see that it helps but I guess there's only so much it can do,Z so I want to get one of those cases that has an external battery built in. I have a few questions.
1. Does anyone here use one of these? Please give your input.
2. What's the best one? I've done a little research and found that the i-Blason and Mophie ones seem to be most popular. They're both a bit pricey.
3. How do they work? Does the phone just start directly using the external power after you switch it on, or does it just charge the internal battery?
4. Can these things have any kind of adverse effects on the internal battery from odd charging voltage or anything like that?
5. Do they actually extend your battery time as advertised? I'd be happy with getting two full days out of a single charge and some of these things are advertised as extending it by more that 1.5x. It seems like if the external battery is just charging the internal battery it would be a bit less efficient than if it were directly powering the phone. Does that make sense? It just seems like there couldn't possibly be a direct conversion of 2300 mAh from one battery to completely charge another 2300 mAh battery.
I hope that wasn't too confusing. Personally, I can't wait until lithium-sulfur batteries are in all our electronic devices (potentially 4x energy density.) Google it. Sounds promising.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
JGress said:
So the battery life absolutely sucks on my One. If I start using it at 8am its dead by 5 pm. And that's just normal usage like surfing the web over WiFi, playing games (candy crush, dots, angry birds space,) maybe watching a few short videos over WiFi and the occasional text message. I have a battery saver app and I can see that it helps but I guess there's only so much it can do,Z so I want to get one of those cases that has an external battery built in. I have a few questions.
1. Does anyone here use one of these? Please give your input.
2. What's the best one? I've done a little research and found that the i-Blason and Mophie ones seem to be most popular. They're both a bit pricey.
3. How do they work? Does the phone just start directly using the external power after you switch it on, or does it just charge the internal battery?
4. Can these things have any kind of adverse effects on the internal battery from odd charging voltage or anything like that?
5. Do they actually extend your battery time as advertised? I'd be happy with getting two full days out of a single charge and some of these things are advertised as extending it by more that 1.5x. It seems like if the external battery is just charging the internal battery it would be a bit less efficient than if it were directly powering the phone. Does that make sense? It just seems like there couldn't possibly be a direct conversion of 2300 mAh from one battery to completely charge another 2300 mAh battery.
I hope that wasn't too confusing. Personally, I can't wait until lithium-sulfur batteries are in all our electronic devices (potentially 4x energy density.) Google it. Sounds promising.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I don't use these so I can't comment on this.
2. The iBlason and Mophie are the only ones available that I have ever seen. The Mophie being the higher quality (materials not necessarily battery life) of the two but also twice the price.
3. The phone will use the battery cases charge first then once that is drained use the phones internal battery. However if your phone battery isn't fully charged and you plug a charged case into it, it will charge the phone.
4. It's a good question and I'm not 100% sure. If you use it properly it shouldn't cause any major issues. Using it "properly" meaning your phone has full charge when it is paired with case so that the case isn't charging the phone. That being said, the damage is no different than someone constantly charging and discharging their phone in short bursts rather than using it until it's dead (or as close to possible) and then fully charging. The big thing to be aware of is that the damage caused is simply a reduced battery capacity and usually isn't big enough to notice during the life span of the phone (1 to 2 years).
5. Yes they do. Some of the claims may be a little higher than life experience, but nothing drastic. It litterally adds a second battery to your phone, so it IS going to extend the battery life quite noticeably.
One thing though, I have had my HTC One for a month or so now and have kept it stock, occassionally trying custom roms, but always going back. I have consistently been able to get over a full days use with WiFi always on, GPS always off, brightness always on auto, and I have exchange synced and set to push notifications. I am constantly checking email and texting for work as well as browsing the internet and Google Currents. I also have the power saver turned on. A full day use for me being from 8am to around 12am.
I think either something is wrong with your phone, you are playing too many games, or some setting or service is draining your battery. I would post your battery usage here for some to inspect. And it might be a good idea to uninstall the batter saver app, they usually don't make any huge dent on battery life that can't be done without the app, since most rely on a polling service that runs in the background and eat up battery life themselves. Just make sure your sync settings are reasonable (not every 5 minutes), turn off GPS and only turn it on when needed, don't turn on WiFi unless you need it, turn off 4G unless you need it (switch to CDMA only in mobile settings), enable eco mode (power saver that throttles CPU based on usage), and make sure brightness is set to auto or a medium to dim setting.
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
ebbinger_413 said:
/snip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mostly right. I'll toss out though that cases have different current outputs-- the mophie cases will output at a high enough rate to cause a phone to register as being on AC. the i-Blason case charges at about a third of that rate, meaning that it'll trickle charge your phone/reduce power consumption rate, but it won't outright charge unless you're not using it.
JGress said:
So the battery life absolutely sucks on my One. If I start using it at 8am its dead by 5 pm. And that's just normal usage like surfing the web over WiFi, playing games (candy crush, dots, angry birds space,) maybe watching a few short videos over WiFi and the occasional text message. I have a battery saver app and I can see that it helps but I guess there's only so much it can do,Z so I want to get one of those cases that has an external battery built in. I have a few questions.
1. Does anyone here use one of these? Please give your input.
2. What's the best one? I've done a little research and found that the i-Blason and Mophie ones seem to be most popular. They're both a bit pricey.
3. How do they work? Does the phone just start directly using the external power after you switch it on, or does it just charge the internal battery?
4. Can these things have any kind of adverse effects on the internal battery from odd charging voltage or anything like that?
5. Do they actually extend your battery time as advertised? I'd be happy with getting two full days out of a single charge and some of these things are advertised as extending it by more that 1.5x. It seems like if the external battery is just charging the internal battery it would be a bit less efficient than if it were directly powering the phone. Does that make sense? It just seems like there couldn't possibly be a direct conversion of 2300 mAh from one battery to completely charge another 2300 mAh battery.
I hope that wasn't too confusing. Personally, I can't wait until lithium-sulfur batteries are in all our electronic devices (potentially 4x energy density.) Google it. Sounds promising.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I've used one for about 2 days. I returned it. It works well and the Mophie definitely feels of high quality and feels great in hand. However it makes the sleek device very big and bulky.
2. I would recommend the Mophie purchased at your local corporate carrier store, reason being is that usually your carrier will offer a 1 yr warranty on a premium case like this. However if you break or it shows ridiculous wear and tear they wont. I cannot comment on I-Blason's warranty. Although I think the Mophie is perhaps more expensive. Some carrier offer discounts based on employer's of the account owner. So that might help get the case cheaper.
3. See comment below
4. Usually since they're molded directly to fit your device, most manufacturer's will accommodate the OEM's requirements. But the Mophie charges as fast as it would if you had plugged it into an AC charger.
5. This question is a bit more confusing for me to answer. All I can say is that if they advertise a 100% charge then that means they're matching the mAh capacity of the device. (Ex. phone model has a 2000mAh battery internal and the case advertises 100%, then that means the external battery is also rated at 2000mAh.) So in reality if you're expecting a complete 100% charge while your device is still on, then no, you may get from 1% up to 70-90% depending on how much you're using it while its charging.
ebbinger_413 said:
3. The phone will use the battery cases charge first then once that is drained use the phones internal battery. However if your phone battery isn't fully charged and you plug a charged case into it, it will charge the phone.
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not entirely true. Because the Mophie has an on/off switch. So if the case is set to off, it'll use the internal battery first, then you need to switch the battery case to on to begin charging the internal battery. It is entirely possible to use the phone till it completely shuts down when it run out of juice and the Mophie have a full charge.
It uses the same charger as the phone itself so the case never has to come off, however even if the switch is set to off it'll charge both items at the same time.
adamjamess said:
1. I've used one for about 2 days. I returned it. It works well and the Mophie definitely feels of high quality and feels great in hand. However it makes the sleek device very big and bulky.
2. I would recommend the Mophie purchased at your local corporate carrier store, reason being is that usually your carrier will offer a 1 yr warranty on a premium case like this. However if you break or it shows ridiculous wear and tear they wont. I cannot comment on I-Blason's warranty. Although I think the Mophie is perhaps more expensive. Some carrier offer discounts based on employer's of the account owner. So that might help get the case cheaper.
3. See comment below
4. Usually since they're molded directly to fit your device, most manufacturer's will accommodate the OEM's requirements. But the Mophie charges as fast as it would if you had plugged it into an AC charger.
5. This question is a bit more confusing for me to answer. All I can say is that if they advertise a 100% charge then that means they're matching the mAh capacity of the device. (Ex. phone model has a 2000mAh battery internal and the case advertises 100%, then that means the external battery is also rated at 2000mAh.) So in reality if you're expecting a complete 100% charge while your device is still on, then no, you may get from 1% up to 70-90% depending on how much you're using it while its charging.
This is not entirely true. Because the Mophie has an on/off switch. So if the case is set to off, it'll use the internal battery first, then you need to switch the battery case to on to begin charging the internal battery. It is entirely possible to use the phone till it completely shuts down when it run out of juice and the Mophie have a full charge.
It uses the same charger as the phone itself so the case never has to come off, however even if the switch is set to off it'll charge both items at the same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was not aware they had an on off switch, that would change the way the phone handles the device and give you a bit of flexability in how you use it, which is good.
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
adamjamess said:
This is not entirely true. Because the Mophie has an on/off switch. So if the case is set to off, it'll use the internal battery first, then you need to switch the battery case to on to begin charging the internal battery. It is entirely possible to use the phone till it completely shuts down when it run out of juice and the Mophie have a full charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if it would use the case battery first if you turned it on when both are 100% charged. Everywhere I've read, people seem to use them to charge the phone after the battery gets low. It would be great if the phone would just draw power from the case until it dies and flip over to the phone battery. I feel like that would keep the phone battery more healthy by avoiding inconsistent charging. If you're constantly killing the phone battery and using the case to recharge to less than 100%, then killing it again... it just seems like that would be bad for the battery.
Thanks everyone for the input! Keep it coming!
JGress said:
I wonder if it would use the case battery first if you turned it on when both are 100% charged. Everywhere I've read, people seem to use them to charge the phone after the battery gets low. It would be great if the phone would just draw power from the case until it dies and flip over to the phone battery. I feel like that would keep the phone battery more healthy by avoiding inconsistent charging. If you're constantly killing the phone battery and using the case to recharge to less than 100%, then killing it again... it just seems like that would be bad for the battery.
Thanks everyone for the input! Keep it coming!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good question. My thoughts would be that the phone would only draw enough to keep topped off. So I guess if the switch is left to the on position the whole time you would get the desired effect of draining the external pack first. But I would guess that doing that would reduce the efficiency of the case somehow.
In the end whether your constantly killing and charging your battery no matter to 90% or 100% with the case or A.C. charger, doing it more often will kill your battery either way. Given lithium ion batteries are way more forgiving than the old cadmium based ones that built up a memory of sorts.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk 2
To keep the battery healthy in a phone, make sure you charge to 100% each time. You don't need to fully drain battery, it's actually healthier to go from 50% to 100% than 1% to 100%.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
pewpewbangbang said:
To keep the battery healthy in a phone, make sure you charge to 100% each time. You don't need to fully drain battery, it's actually healthier to go from 50% to 100% than 1% to 100%.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if my phone only gets down to about 40% each night before I plug it in to charge all night I'm ok? In the back of my head I'm always wondering if I need to drain it all the way sometime.
Philmize said:
So if my phone only gets down to about 40% each night before I plug it in to charge all night I'm ok? In the back of my head I'm always wondering if I need to drain it all the way sometime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are fine, it's better to not drain the battery all the time. It lasts longer if there's charge left. You just have to make sure your fully charging to 100% and not charging only to 70% or something like that. This is how lithium batteries work in all devices, laptops etc...
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
And either way you wouldn't notice the loss in capacity until you at least 2-3 years out.
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
So I've been thinking about this a lot over the past few days and I have something else i want to throw out there...
If you have your phone plugged in to a charger while at full charge, you can use it all you want and it will never go below %100. Does this mean that it's completely drawing power from the charger, or is it still drawing power from the battery, which is just constantly being topped off? Because I know I can completely remove the battery from my laptop and as long as it's plugged in to the charger, it will continue to function just fine.
If the phone is drawing 100% power from the charger, doesn't that mean that it would do the same for one of these battery extender cases?
Like I said before, I think that would be a lot more efficient that just using the case to recharge your phone's battery after it gets low. This way you sort of cut out the middle man.
BTW... I found that there was a weather app that I think was constantly trying to access my location even though I have location services turned off. I now get a good 10 hours of battery life with moderate usage. Still want a battery extender case. 2 full days would be awesome.
HTC battery life DOES suck compared what it can do because you are not going to buy a phone like this if you wont chat/text/call/email/play games alot. Mine lasts 10-15hours (usualy 2.5-3hours screen time and NEVER more than 3) and thats annoyng because its ok if im just ordinary home-work-home rezime but if i need to go out of the city for lets day 2-3 days - im screwed and allways must think about charging.
I have overlooked everything nothing wrong with the phone - the battery is just too small.
i keep wifi ,gps and bt off if i dont need them but my phone ofcourse syncs everything (thats the point of a smartphone - to be connected!) and i play often also.
JGress said:
So I've been thinking about this a lot over the past few days and I have something else i want to throw out there...
If you have your phone plugged in to a charger while at full charge, you can use it all you want and it will never go below %100. Does this mean that it's completely drawing power from the charger, or is it still drawing power from the battery, which is just constantly being topped off? Because I know I can completely remove the battery from my laptop and as long as it's plugged in to the charger, it will continue to function just fine.
If the phone is drawing 100% power from the charger, doesn't that mean that it would do the same for one of these battery extender cases?
Like I said before, I think that would be a lot more efficient that just using the case to recharge your phone's battery after it gets low. This way you sort of cut out the middle man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope its being topped off, phones are all about maximizing space in the phone, it would require more wiring for the motherboard to be able to draw power directly from the micro usb port as well as the battery. For example, my Samsung phones can be plugged in but if I take the battery out the phone turns off.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium
I got this one - all day w/o charging w very heavy usage. Traveling w/o signal - 2-3 days no charge. Makes the phone bigger and you can't see the gorgeousness of the phone, but it protects it all around and it lets those 4 cores and crazy display to do its job w/o dying on you fast.
This guy sells them for $20. Have seen them in other sites for $70-130. Same exact model.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e1140...&exe=10013&ext=100025&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext
InterFace86 said:
HTC battery life DOES suck compared what it can do because you are not going to buy a phone like this if you wont chat/text/call/email/play games alot. Mine lasts 10-15hours (usualy 2.5-3hours screen time and NEVER more than 3) and thats annoyng because its ok if im just ordinary home-work-home rezime but if i need to go out of the city for lets day 2-3 days - im screwed and allways must think about charging.
I have overlooked everything nothing wrong with the phone - the battery is just too small.
i keep wifi ,gps and bt off if i dont need them but my phone ofcourse syncs everything (thats the point of a smartphone - to be connected!) and i play often also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just don't know how to manage wakelocks. Do some reading. Mine lasts almost 2 days with 5 hours screen on time.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
DELETE
1. I have the i-Blason black.
As a Case
Pros: Great volume controls, Black matches the black HTC One and the black earbud plug, kickstand, central USB plug.
Cons: Thick, Gets Warn when plugged in
3. There's a button that turns charging from the case on or off. Phone will be like it's externally charging.
4. The i-Blason is a lower current charging, so there's a warning that pops up. I think it's not harmful.
5. Extends, yes. But >1 day, no. Well, if you're not using the phone, yes, > 1day. What I do is I let it charge the phone when I'm not near a usb plug and it gets < 80%, then i let it trickle back to 100% in about an hour. It automatically stops charging the phone at 100%.
Learn how to manage your phone guys. Track down the offenders instead of buying these battery packs and other nonsense.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
Speaking for myself I've always been kinda aware of the failure potential of these batteries. For instance, I tend to not leave the phone unattended during charging and also use such tasker profiles as to shutdown when charge below 5% or alert when charging above 95%. These latter measures and others are mostly to help with battery longevity as well as or rather my ocdness on this subject.
My only gripe is that I never succeeded in instilling the same 'respect' for battery in my wife.. Pre or even post-note she always forgets her tablet or her phone plugged in the charger, even when no one's at home, sometimes for days!
But this recent note7 'mishap' let me tell you, made me even more wary of the destructive potential of the batteries in our phones. Especially since most of my latest snapdragon devices (m7, z5) get very warm while performing various mundane tasks (syncing via wifi/lte, camera, games rendering etc), much warmer then the defunct note.
Did this event affect the way you use your mobile devices and how? Is there any particular strategy you use with this respect? Or do you rather think that the failure rate being so low it's rather silly to worry about it?
millicent said:
Did this event affect the way you use your mobile devices and how?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, it hasn't made me change anything so far. I don't believe the issue with the Note 7 is directly a result of the battery since Samsung had two manufacturers make batteries and in both instances Note 7 devices with either battery still failed.
Is there any particular strategy you use with this respect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as the device is working properly meaning there's no defect that I am aware of (as in no global recall in effect, etc) in any part of the power or charging systems then I tend to leave my devices plugged in until they charge to 100% status then I'll usually leave them connected to the charger for up to 30 minutes past that point then disconnect. With the GS7A I have, I only charge it once every 2.5-3 days typically and that's from 5-10% back to 100% using a Samsung 2A charger - I don't use the factory fast charger and I don't use fast charging because I believe that ends up shortening the potential lifespan of the battery cell itself.
I did not say that's a fact for everyone to live by or accept as the gospel truth, I said for myself personally I believe that fast charging shortens the lifespan of the battery cell itself.
For the record I've owned several hundred devices over the decades, some with Ni-Cad batteries, most with Li-Ion over the past decade, and a few with Li-Po technolology and I only had one instance of a battery having a problem (not a failure). It was a knockoff cheap Chinese clone battery for my Galaxy S4 Active several years ago and it bloated up one afternoon - thankfully that GS4A had a removable back cover and I caught the swelling up very fast because as soon as it started to bloat up the back cover literally popped off about 4 inches above my desk and landed on my keyboard. I of course took the battery out immediately and put it in a small ceramic box my Wife had laying around, nothing else happened and I ended up taking it to a local battery store here in Las Vegas and turning it in for safe destruction.
See, there really is a good reason to have removable batteries and removable back covers on some devices.
Or do you rather think that the failure rate being so low it's rather silly to worry about it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated above, I don't believe the actual point of failure with the Note 7 is the battery directly - the burning up and explosions of the battery cells is the effect, not the cause. Something is happening to cause the battery (now two different ones, which most of us know about now) to fail.
Now it remains to be seen if the cause can be determined for the failures.
There is one other, perhaps more placebo induced effect, routine I'd do every once in a while, related to battery calibration. So I'd let the battery go as low as can possibly go, or let it turn off by itself, charge at cold until 100% then power on while still plugged in and finally unplug when os fully booted up.
Is this still a proper thing to do or it rather stresses the battery uselessly?
After I got this GS7A I did allow it to run down entirely till it shut off once, just one time and I actually got concerned because when I then plugged in the charger all I got on the display was a battery outline (the white battery icon that's hollowed out) and I was expecting the lightning-bolt symbol to appear there to indicate yes it's charging, after which it should change into the progress meter along the inside bottom of the icon.
That didn't happen.
So I sat there waiting. 5 minutes went by, then about 10 minutes, and I started to worry that perhaps I'd just killed it completely. But about 11 minutes after I plugged in the charger the lightning bolt appeared for about 10 seconds, flashing a few times, then I saw a thin green line across the bottom. Success!
But it did pretty much scare me for a few minutes at the thought of potentially ruining it by doing that so, I don't intend to ever let that happen. Your practice you mentioned of using Tasker to shut down at 5% (not a complete discharge like I did that one time) and to stop charging at 95% is a good idea and something I'm going to have to do more research into.
I've spent a lot of time over the years reading research papers at Battery University and I know that full discharge of a Li-Ion cell is a bad idea but I still ended up doing it. I was actually trying to capture a screenshot at 1% then I planned to initiate a shutdown immediately after that but taking the screenshot just killed it, oops.
But the idea of shutdown at maybe 4% and stopping the charging at 95% (or at least providing me with some kind of alert I can hear clearly and charge or disconnect as required) is a very good idea so thanks for mentioning that.
My research and understanding of the available info at Battery University is that it's better to do your best to not let a Li-Ion cell go below at least 30-40% charged most of the time with short periods of charging to bring it back up to the 90-95% point and, and occasionally - like maybe once a month - allow it to go deeper into the discharge state but not fully (I learned my lesson on that one) and then charge it back to full. The question is what that "full" point might be because some papers say charging Li-Ion to full capacity ruins them as time passes and other papers say it's just fine to do so occasionally - the problem is there's no absolute consensus on either method.
The deep discharge method once a month might work better as a method of calibrating (?!?!) but I honestly don't know for sure, not sure anyone does. But I think I'm going to start using Tasker for that 4-5% shutdown and 95% top off point on my Active, it sure can't actually hurt the device and could give me longer battery lifespan or should I say longevity as you did - that word actually seems more appropriate because most folks hear "battery lifespan" and they only understand that to mean how long it runs on a single charge which isn't the meaning I'm trying to get across.
all i can say after this incident , my knowledge of ion battery deepen and yes in case of emergency , you cant remove if its seal tight shut inside , something to consider , Samsung .
for me, no it's not made me more wary, I always am re Li cells as there have been many failures not only in phones. I have laptops, eCigs, torches etc that all use Li cells. That said, I use the devices as "normal" but stay aware of how warm they've gotten in charge/use, try to not drop them or leave them on/in a source of external heating etc. Anything containing combustible material can go bang after all. A disposable lighter left on an iron fireplace with the fire burning goes bang very well indeed, as would one of these cells in the same circumstances
I tend to top off the charge regularly since I have Qi chargers on my desk and in the car holder but never charge overnight while I sleep. I'd guess my operating capacity ranges from 100% down to maybe 30% and mainly hanging in the 60-80% range as the device tops up. SatNav tends to mean in-car the device only gathers a minor gain even over a couple hours use as the draw from the screen/cpu offsets the input from the Qi charger plate. The phone of course gets warm in this mode, hence it is set halfway down on the centre dash rather than up high and in the sun. And no I'm not always looking at it - voice guidance is very handy
On charge levels, I've also read a number of articles on various cell types. Typically the recommendations are that Li cells effectively eat themselves if kept at 100%, degrading and losing capacity over time. Hence its best if storing them to have them at 50-70% and not fully charged. Of course whether the phone actually takes the cell to its 100% limit or its charge management calls 100% at the 95% of cell capacity I don't know. When fully discharge has happened then yes it does seem to take longer for the charge icon to start ticking along, seen the same on the old iPad-1 I have, probably because the initial part has to be a very slow energising charge to get the cell to a point when it can accept more current and maybe the icon only shows rates above a certain current.
re the swelling cell. I've not used non-Samsung cells in my note 1/3 or S2 but have seen Sammy's cells also swell when they get to end of life. Both notes had this happen around the 18-26 month mark but not to the extent of the back popping off/open. Dramatic shortening of on-battery runtime yes, but from the outside no real visible indications that anything was up.
NO, LiPo, and Li ion batts are everywhere why worry about, I have had dozens of LiPo an LiOn powered devices
What about Li-On batteries though?
Hasn't changed for me either. But it has made me more wary of Samsung devices. There no way I'm getting the s8 (or note 8) no matter how great the features are. They can't even figure out what's wrong with the note 7.. Who's to say their upcoming phones won't have the same problem.
The only thing that worries me is that it may become even harder to get batteries and such shipped to Hawaii, it's horrible.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using Tapatalk
So I have the wireless charging mod and I have several wireless chargers “All the same brand and model” I mostly only use two. The one beside my bed and the one at work. I know this is going to sound crazy but when I use the charger beside my bed and charge to %100 the battery life is not nearly as long. It is enough to be VERY noticeable I have tested and compared like 6 times. Charging on both to 100% and just let the phone sit for an hour and when it is charged by the one beside my bed it drains about 20% faster. Can a charger effect battery life in this way????
Based on my experiences... yes!
enetec said:
Based on my experiences... yes!
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I've never had that happen till now. I wonder if that particular charger is going bad or something
X_man. said:
I've never had that happen till now. I wonder if that particular charger is going bad or something
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Experiment... swap the chargers? bring the work one home and vice versa? maybe different mains or "dirty mains" could be the culprit? see if the issue follows the charger or area?
Uzephi said:
Experiment... swap the chargers? bring the work one home and vice versa? maybe different mains or "dirty mains" could be the culprit? see if the issue follows the charger or area?
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Great idea! I'll do that next week and post what happens.
X_man. said:
Great idea! I'll do that next week and post what happens.
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Any time. I personally ran into that. It wasn't 20% more like 5% (average 3hr drain on my old Rezound was 2hrs and 45mins when charged from work. It was due to ingress on my work's lines that wasn't there at home. We had little oddities with some PC's until we found the UPS for our server was causing noise on our circuits).
This is absolutely normal. I build custom vape systems, some on li-poly Batts, some on li-ion. In both cases, charge rate -can- drastically affect charge effectiveness.
Most of this in your case likely has to do with thermal reads. Remember, not only is your phone and charger loaded with chips to be smart and safe about the charge, the battery (and sometimes individual cells within it) are also microchipped. Wireless charging creates a lot of heat. Should any one of the three components recognize this heat as excessive, the voltage will drop. I _believe_ this is most relevant during the end of "saturation" phase during charging, because if the battery says "no" during this phase, or anytime after (during completion/final) , the charger's subsequent "topping-charge" will also be denied. This kind of results in cycle of the charger saying "take it!" , The battery saying "no", dropping the voltage, the charger seeing the drop and expecting it to need a top-off and immediately trying to push again, repeat. The reason you're seeing the difference is because the charger is getting it's numbers from current output from the battery. The battery can drop down to zero current when overheated to prevent thermal rail? From occurring, which the charger then translates " 0 current must mean full".
That's one part of the difference, and not necessarily what is occurring... The other part has to do with manufacturing intent. Most USB 3.1/c power supplies are actually pushing out the maximum amperage and thus has a huge stage-1 charging state, with a minimum stage-2 (saturation) charging state. This basically translates into , your charger and phone are both lying when you rapid charge.
I'm sure I'm missing some facets or misrepresenting them here as I can't remember all the damn physics, but short story is: for absolute saturation, battery life, battery runtime, and safety... Charge at the same rate as battery discharge.
Edit: also what Uzephi mentioned about dirty power is also relevant. When power factors are not near 1.0 (1:1, meaning everything drawn is used, and everything requested is given), bad sh*t happens. This actually relates to the physical wave (sinusoidal) of electricity. All the anomalies are probably listed somewhere by some physicist, but suffice to say, there's a lot of possibilities, none of them "good" when out-of-phase power factors occur. This is why sensitive equipment almost always gets run through a power conditioner. The more sensitive and volatile the system, the more aggressive the conditioner needs to be (hence massive amplifiers for sound systems like the ones I use in my work need $200 glorified power strips).
Some_Donkus said:
This is absolutely normal. I build custom vape systems, some on li-poly Batts, some on li-ion. In both cases, charge rate -can- drastically affect charge effectiveness.
Most of this in your case likely has to do with thermal reads. Remember, not only is your phone and charger loaded with chips to be smart and safe about the charge, the battery (and sometimes individual cells within it) are also microchipped. Wireless charging creates a lot of heat. Should any one of the three components recognize this heat as excessive, the voltage will drop. I _believe_ this is most relevant during the end of "saturation" phase during charging, because if the battery says "no" during this phase, or anytime after (during completion/final) , the charger's subsequent "topping-charge" will also be denied. This kind of results in cycle of the charger saying "take it!" , The battery saying "no", dropping the voltage, the charger seeing the drop and expecting it to need a top-off and immediately trying to push again, repeat. The reason you're seeing the difference is because the charger is getting it's numbers from current output from the battery. The battery can drop down to zero current when overheated to prevent thermal rail? From occurring, which the charger then translates " 0 current must mean full".
That's one part of the difference, and not necessarily what is occurring... The other part has to do with manufacturing intent. Most USB 3.1/c power supplies are actually pushing out the maximum amperage and thus has a huge stage-1 charging state, with a minimum stage-2 (saturation) charging state. This basically translates into , your charger and phone are both lying when you rapid charge.
I'm sure I'm missing some facets or misrepresenting them here as I can't remember all the damn physics, but short story is: for absolute saturation, battery life, battery runtime, and safety... Charge at the same rate as battery discharge.
Edit: also what Uzephi mentioned about dirty power is also relevant. When power factors are not near 1.0 (1:1, meaning everything drawn is used, and everything requested is given), bad sh*t happens. This actually relates to the physical wave (sinusoidal) of electricity. All the anomalies are probably listed somewhere by some physicist, but suffice to say, there's a lot of possibilities, none of them "good" when out-of-phase power factors occur. This is why sensitive equipment almost always gets run through a power conditioner. The more sensitive and volatile the system, the more aggressive the conditioner needs to be (hence massive amplifiers for sound systems like the ones I use in my work need $200 glorified power strips).
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Some very good points! Doesn't seem quite as strange now LOL Thanks!
@Some_Donkus than for your complete explanation...
I've found even "about same rate" chargers (measured on phones...) often differs in heating battery: on my old Moto Z, the OnePlus X charger and the Samsung Galaxy Tab one both charged my phone (quite fast...), BUT the first heated it A LOT more, while the second hot A LOT itself!!
I think it's related to components quality too...
What I don't undestand well is why the Incipio MotoMod battery, which charge the phone at quite low rate, is able to heat it more than fast chargers....!?!?
enetec said:
@Some_Donkus than for your complete explanation...
I've found even "about same rate" chargers (measured on phones...) often differs in heating battery: on my old Moto Z, the OnePlus X charger and the Samsung Galaxy Tab one both charged my phone (quite fast...), BUT the first heated it A LOT more, while the second hot A LOT itself!!
I think it's related to components quality too...
What I don't undestand well is why the Incipio MotoMod battery, which charge the phone at quite low rate, is able to heat it more than fast chargers....!?!?
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Without knowing the specific charge voltage and stage setup of the individual batteries it's tough to speculate. One thing that comes in mind relates back to the power factors I was speaking of. It might actually be a high quality device that just has a lot of extra MOSFET + capacitors built in. These are used in order to "clean and manage" power on the fly. Capacitors are used to provide extra little bumps of discharge / supply when the battery cells themselves can't necessarily output enough mA/amp in a peak. MOSFETs do the opposite, providing a safe gateway for extra unused power either coming into the device from the battery, or from outside power to charging battery...
Both of these little guys basically are giant heat retainers (MOSFETs actually usually have heatsinks pasted to them, even the micro sized ones used in small devices)....
Just a thought.
Some_Donkus said:
...
Just a thought.
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Well, it surely could be but two weird things still happen with Incipio battery MOD (and, they say, NOT with the new Turbo Power which do fast charging instead! ):
- the overheat seems to be coming from the phone and not from the battery MOD...
- the Incipio battery MOD I have adds wireless charging too to the phone. What it's weird is that wireless charging phone (by the same rear connector on the phone) seems to overheat it less than using battery to charge it... (and battery charge rate is a bit lower...).
I think it could be related from the fact that battery MOD has probably to raise his voltage to charge phone... but strangely this overheats more phone than battery...!
enetec said:
Well, it surely could be but two weird things still happen with Incipio battery MOD (and, they say, NOT with the new Turbo Power which do fast charging instead! ):
- the overheat seems to be coming from the phone and not from the battery MOD...
- the Incipio battery MOD I have adds wireless charging too to the phone. What it's weird is that wireless charging phone (by the same rear connector on the phone) seems to overheat it less than using battery to charge it... (and battery charge rate is a bit lower...).
I think it could be related from the fact that battery MOD has probably to raise his voltage to charge phone... but strangely this overheats more phone than battery...!
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Ohhh, I see what you're saying...
Okay well, from what I understand, the Incipio Wireless mod actually charges the phone's battery first, THEN the pack within the mod. By default, magnetic induction (wireless charging method) actually will charge everything and anything within the field simultaneously.. but.. what I assume the incipio mod does is this....
Wireless charger sends out induction wave > (Induction wave charges both internal battery and mod for a moment) > Incipio mod get's a mV current reading from phone's internal battery > If internal phone battery mV current is ≠ 0, Incipio mod uses MOSFET's to gate-drain incoming charge from wireless for X amount of time (and possibly send charge to internal battery via connectors) + > induction wave continues to charge internal phone battery > Incipio takes another mV current reading from phone battery to see if it's full >>>
Cycle continues until Incipio gets mV current reading = 0, at which point it stops using gate-drains and accepts induction wave charge.
^^^ -IF- that's accurate, then it would mean that the Incipio mod is passing it's charge into the phone battery (received from induction wave) at the same time that the internal phone battery is receiving the induction wave from pad... So that internal battery is receiving a shiz-load of joose quickly...
again, pure speculation.... but it would make sense...