Develop Bugs

[Q] ARC camera resolution

Hello everyone!
I recently bought a Sony Ericsson Arc and the images taken by its camera look pretty good on the phone it self, but wen it comes to downloading them on PC the results are quite unexpected. the image resolution is poor 400xXXX pixels or less and size is about 600kb (same shown in astro file explorer) although its taken on 8mpx settings and same with using HDR camera. I use universal android suit (i dont know maybe i need original sofware?) The question is how do I fix that Resolution problem? what settings and where? pls help

cczr1 said:
Hello everyone!
I recently bought a Sony Ericsson Arc and the images taken by its camera look pretty good on the phone it self, but wen it comes to downloading them on PC the results are quite unexpected. the image resolution is poor 400xXXX pixels or less and size is about 600kb (same shown in astro file explorer) although its taken on 8mpx settings and same with using HDR camera. I use universal android suit (i dont know maybe i need original sofware?) The question is how do I fix that Resolution problem? what settings and where? pls help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't believe hdr camera supports full resolution even if it claims it. Take a picture with the stock camera and check the resolution on that. What's universal Android suit?

Mr Patchy Patch said:
i don't believe hdr camera supports full resolution even if it claims it. Take a picture with the stock camera and check the resolution on that. What's universal Android suit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HDR camera does support full resolution, I have taking several pictures with both SE camera app, HDR camera and Vignette all at 8MP and compared them with 100-200% magnification, the resolution on each is exactly the same, there is absolute no difference in the details recorded.
HDR camera does after combining three pictures increase color saturation and contrast for the whole picture and fine details. This makes the pictures look like they have more details but up close it is easy to see the same amount of details and same pixel sizes.
I have decided to uninstall Vignette as it add some very weird "pixel curtain" all over the pictures which initially gives it a larger file size as it add additional pixels which is not supposed to be there. This could give the wrong impression that it contains more details which is not the case.

G4 DNG/RAW grainy and bad quality

Hey,
I have a question to the G4 RAW Mode.
Of course I love the manual mode of the G4 with all the settings. But if I take a phote in dng, the jpeg has a higher quality.
My problems:
1. If I turn down the ISO to get a pic without any grainyness, the ISO is still grainy.
2. If I zoom, I get a cropped jpeg, but the dng is un-zoomed.
3. There is a pattern in the jpeg's, if I also take a photo in dng.
I use stock rom with stock cam.
Thank you

hasche90 said:
Hey,
I have a question to the G4 RAW Mode.
Of course I love the manual mode of the G4 with all the settings. But if I take a phote in dng, the jpeg has a higher quality.
My problems:
1. If I turn down the ISO to get a pic without any grainyness, the ISO is still grainy.
2. If I zoom, I get a cropped jpeg, but the dng is un-zoomed.
3. There is a pattern in the jpeg's, if I also take a photo in dng.
I use stock rom with stock cam.
Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because jpeg has noise reduction while raw doesn't, you would have to develop it. also high iso causes this. anything above 600 looks grainy. try to get a stable position and lower the shutter speed to a second or so

For RAW/DNG images you need to create a customised "Develop settings" and apply those on import, this is how I do it in Adobe Lightroom. The photo management software apply camera/lens profiles for their RAW processors, but I don't think the smartphone cameras are included. At least this is not the case for OnePlus One and LG G4 as far as I can tell.
So, the develop setting I use for LG G4 (and One Plus One as I have both) is pretty simple: in Noise Reduction I increase the luminance to 50 (in Lightroom). This smooths the graining without sacrificing too much the details. Some DNG photos need further tweaks to get the desired result though.

Raw.This format no use any NR effect.Just try Photoshop or other pictures editing program.
Raw like fresh cutted meat.Need post process!

Camera and image file sizes and formats?

Folks;
being on an M51 using stock ROM, OpenCamera and stock Samsung camera, I am a bit lost figuring out how to use the cameras well. Two pecularities come to attention:
Samsung camera apparently has a way to set a 16:9 12MP image mode (4624x2604) whereas in OpenCamera the maximum 16:9 resolution is 3840x2160 (8.2 MP).
In OpenCamera, the 8.2 MP images (set to maximum JPG quality) have a size of apprx 2MB each, which seems reasonable. However, using Samsung stock camera set to 4624x2604, image files are close to 7.5MB which seems extremely huge for a JPG compressed image file even at best quality.
Does anyone have insights or ideas what the Samsung app does here what OpenCamera isn't capable of doing?
Thanks in advance and all the best,
Kristian

Samsung camera probably uses full resolution images and crops the view, maybe to align images? Open camera uses 90% jpeg quality by default, which has minimal impact in image quality but still produce more artifacts. You can set it to 100% in photo settings.

Makes sense, thanks. I'll play around a bit with the cameras and different resolutions and compare results. Mostly I'm a bit confused, too, because my previous device used to have bigger (file size) images while shooting with the same resolution, and I wonder whether "more bits" means "better quality" at this point (or just "more noise"). Already did set OpenCamera to 100%, just to be sure. Unfortunately, a bunch of modes (like the 64MP mode or that 16:9 12MP mode) aren't even available in OpenCamera. The tool still needs getting used to.

Question How well does mcpro24fps work ?

Hi, I'm thinking of getting a pixel 6 / 6 pro, but first I'd like to know what kind of video I can get from it.
Has anyone tested mcpro24fps ? What are the maximum resolutions available ? The maximum bitrate ?
Are the aux cameras available and working ? (It seems like the ultra wide isn't very wide or very good, but at least the main and zoom lenses ?)

For anyone who is curious, this is an $18 app mcpro24fps - professional manual video camera app.

roirraW edor ehT said:
For anyone who is curious, this is an $18 app mcpro24fps - professional manual video camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's also available for free if you download it through the developper's telegram discussion - but it's in russian. I learned where the main buttons are through screenshots and google lens translation, and it works well enough for me.
Not sure I'm allowed to post the link to the telegram here, but if I am I will !

i've dabbled with this app and filmic on previous devices and been left a bit frustrated. it all depends on your usual way of working. for a start you lose all gyro stabilization, which for me is a deal breaker. also with regards the pixel 6, my guess would be that you will also lose it's hdr.net video capabilities, which is an incredible feature.
on my p6p the default white balance for video (but not stills) is a little warm. i've found that if you tweak the white balance slider down just a tiny bit, the footage looks really amazing. if you also hop onto the MWP mod of the camera, you can bump the bitrate up to 100, vs the 69 of stock. using this mod you can control most aspects of the stills, saturation sharpness noise control hdr etc. i've yet to experiment whether those also apply to video.

whatsisnametake2 said:
i've dabbled with this app and filmic on previous devices and been left a bit frustrated. it all depends on your usual way of working. for a start you lose all gyro stabilization, which for me is a deal breaker. also with regards the pixel 6, my guess would be that you will also lose it's hdr.net video capabilities, which is an incredible feature.
on my p6p the default white balance for video (but not stills) is a little warm. i've found that if you tweak the white balance slider down just a tiny bit, the footage looks really amazing. if you also hop onto the MWP mod of the camera, you can bump the bitrate up to 100, vs the 69 of stock. using this mod you can control most aspects of the stills, saturation sharpness noise control hdr etc. i've yet to exp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PocoSteve said:
It's also available for free if you download it through the developper's telegram discussion - but it's in russian. I learned where the main buttons are through screenshots and google lens translation, and it works well enough for me.
Not sure I'm allowed to post the link to the telegram here, but if I am I will !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can i get the free link please? Thanks

joetarney said:
Can i get the free link please? Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, of course :
mcpro24fps
Official mcpro24fps channel (Android™ only) Купить в РФ Huawei AppGallery: https://bit.ly/mcpro24fpshua English chat: https://t.me/mcpro24fps_en Русский чат: https://t.me/mcpro24fps_ru Youtube: https://youtube.com/mcpro24fps Карта Мир: 2204120102886906
t.me
Although as I already said, that version is only in Russian. What I usually do is take a screenshot, open it in google photos, tap the google lens icon and select "translate". So I can only read a few buttons at a time.
Also you will need to download and install any future updates by yourself.
If you've never used the app, basically tap the camera icon at the bottom of the screen, select one of the two top menus (with or without gpu, it determines wether the video feed will be encoded by the gpu or isp) then select 60 fps, and finally the highest resolution available.
Then a bit further down one of the options is a value in megabytes, that's the bitrate, push it as far as possible (before the selection turns red)
You can also check out the aux sensors by taping the button at the top-left corner.

So... if stabilization, hdr.net video and GCAM processing is out the window, what good is this app if it only gets fed the 12.5 MP downgraded version of a sensor that has not been properly optimized? If "saturation sharpness noise control" are of interest, wouldn't it be wiser to just shoot in RAW and then edit later on, ensuring that the "base" product is of higher quality?

Morgrain said:
So... if stabilization, hdr.net video and GCAM processing is out the window, what good is this app if it only gets fed the 12.5 MP downgraded version of a sensor that has not been properly optimized?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The base idea of the app is that it gives you acess to the rawest output from the sensor. It supports better resolutions than the stock camera, in much higher bitrate. In theory, it also supports denoise and both ois and eis.
I made this post to check if all of these do actually work on the pixel 6 pro (including on the aux lenses) and what resolutions and fps combos are supported.

Morgrain said:
So... if stabilization, hdr.net video and GCAM processing is out the window, what good is this app if it only gets fed the 12.5 MP downgraded version of a sensor that has not been properly optimized? If "saturation sharpness noise control" are of interest, wouldn't it be wiser to just shoot in RAW and then edit later on, ensuring that the "base" product is of higher quality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing it might not have is hdr.net, and even that might be exposed as a video output from the camera api, so even that might be a possibility, just with a higher bitrate than what the stock app supports.
EDIT : The video feed isn't downgraded in any way, stabilization is supported, and it supplants gcam processing which isn't really good at video anyway (except maybe hdr.net, but we'll see).

Question alternative "real" camaras software with full access?

So I basically read everywhere the phones camera app is even worse than what you get on other phones (hardware is still great though).
What alternatives are there, and do they have full hardware access and raw export for all cameras without compromising on image quality?
So what a basic photo app should do (I can't believe that I have to ask for something basic like this) is that I want to set a shutter speed it supposed to use. Camera app should do the exposure and adjust ISO and aperture (if there).
Then 2nd important thing (usually first but hey, google lowered the low standards even more), settings should be saved, if I get my cam out of the pocket again I don't want to dial in the settings again. Just remember it like every real camera does.
3rd is a dreamland level of feature (also normal on real cameras): setting a base shutter speed to freeze action have the camera compensate with ISO and aperture till it reaches the upper limit and raising the shutter speed at the lower limit so I don't get overexposure but always have a fast shutterspeed to freeze movement.
So are there apps out there that do this and do they get full sensor access?

It's actually more complicated than just "hardware is great, software is crap". A lot of the technology that makes Pixels one of the best point and shoot cameras on smartphones, is actually in the google camera app (utilizing the Camera2 API). Google has recently developed a new CameraX API. Its first release was about a week ago and has a long way to go.
Unfortunately, Google has removed some of the manual settings over the years, and has moved towards intelligent processing techniques that are done automatically. For example, manual HDR modes have been removed in favor of the auto-processing used in the app.
Unless somebody develops a new app, utilizing the CameraX library extensions, you won't be finding these things you've asked for. Pixels don't have a manual mode like other phones (such has Samsung for example).
There is a new camera app that the devs behind GraphenOS have created, using the new CameraX API. Someone posted information about it recently. There's also a modified gcam mod specifically for Pixels, made by team MWP. It has some features such ISO, focus and exposure sliders (the non-beta version has more features so download that version).
The official google camera app shoots in RAW format. OpenCamera (by Mark Harman) is also a favorite for many enthusiasts. Last week a user forked it to add a few options for the Pixel 6.
So you have 3 or 4 options listed above, plus the different camera apps on the play store (such as Procam X and Manual Camera). But over the years, it seems that the official google camera app, results in the best quality (but we can now include the MWP gcam mod since it has been modified with most recent google camera versions and works with the Pixel 6/6Pro without any bugs).

Alekos said:
Unfortunately, Google has removed some of the manual settings over the years, and has moved towards intelligent processing techniques that are done automatically. For example, manual HDR modes have been removed in favor of the auto-processing used in the app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An alarming trend, smartphone camera software has never been the most useful and not its getting even worse.
No amount of AI magic is going to recognize that a now still standing person is going to do something fast the next second that I would like to capture with a shutter speed of 1/1000. Also not going to anticipate the cat jumping and me wanting to get that unblurred.
I don't care about AI processing, photo editing has nothing to do with a camera software in my opinion and should happen after the shot was taken and not during. I'm old, I do my own edits. But I would like to have the full quality sensor readout in a DNG file and no compromises on image quality.

nurps said:
An alarming trend, smartphone cameras have never been the most useful and not its getting even worse.
No amount of AI magic is going to recognize that a now still standing person is going to do something fast the next second that I would like to capture with a shutter speed of 1/1000. Also not going to anticipate the cat jumping and me wanting to get that unblurred.
I don't care about AI processing, photo editing has nothing to do with a camera software in my opinion and should happen after the shot was taken and not during. I'm old, I do my own edits. But I would like to have the full quality sensor readout in a DNG file and no compromises on image quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Similar as you, I am 65 and shooting with Canon DSLR for longer than I can remember, I always want to control everything myself. I am now shooting with an app called "ProShot" on the P6P which you can get for I think $5 from the Play Store. It almost worked like a DSLR or mirrorless. I don't care about the AI, I shoot in raw and edit all the photos in Photoshop after moving them to my computer. I think you can download it as a free trial before you made a decision.

Have you noticed any quality differences between stock and ProShot raws on any of the 3 cameras? I remember ProShot from my S8 days.

nurps said:
Have you noticed any quality differences between stock and ProShot raws on any of the 3 cameras? I remember ProShot from my S8 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For raws, I don't see any difference. Jpeg is different story due to Google's AI. Anyway, download it and give a try and see the results if they are your liking.

I'm still on the level what phone to buy for best camera experience, so I don't own it yet.

nurps said:
I'm still on the level what phone to buy for best camera experience, so I don't own it yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see! If just based camera hardware, you have a lot choices, Xiaomi, Samsung perhaps better than the pixel. I don't shoot with phone that much. I came from Samsung Galaxy 21 Ultra to the P6P, it is because I need to root the phone to enable I can use call recorder.

IP68 is must, Samsung S22U raws look really awful though, not much detail there, oversharpeing artifacts at raw level.

Wedding photographer here and personally i find it a breath of fresh air to just point and shoot and get something without resorting to raw and messing about in an editing package, swings and roundabouts i guess.
On a side note the aperture of the lenses on a smartphone are that wide you tend to get really fast shutter speeds anyway even with pretty mediocre light, i took a photo the other day, it was a bright'ish day with about 50% cloud and the shutter speed was 1/5814 at f2.2 using the wide angle lens.

nurps said:
Have you noticed any quality differences between stock and ProShot raws on any of the 3 cameras? I remember ProShot from my S8 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use exclusively ProShot when shooting RAW. RAW files from the Google camera app miss information. That's why the size of its DNG files are smaller (about half) and vary from shot to shot. With RAW this should not be the case. However, ProShot only supports RAW for the default back lens like any other 3rd party app I am aware of. I hope that Google enables 3rd party access to the other 2 back lenses for RAW in the future.
In fact, my default app is now ProShot. The dev is very responsive and addressed several issues I brought up with him.

Thing is If you are going to shoot raw and disown the Google camera app then there is not much point in owning a pixel really. The whole point of a Pixel from a photography point of view is Googles computational photography, without that the camera hardware is pretty average and surpassed by a number of other phone manufacturers.

stbxxl said:
I use exclusively ProShot when shooting RAW. RAW files from the Google camera app miss information. That's why the size of its DNG files are smaller (about half) and vary from shot to shot. With RAW this should not be the case. However, ProShot only supports RAW for the default back lens like any other 3rd party app I am aware of. I hope that Google enables 3rd party access to the other 2 back lenses for RAW in the future.
In fact, my default app is now ProShot. The dev is very responsive and addressed several issues I brought up with him.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shooting Raw on Google's camera app is giving you compressed raw files, which when compared to uncompressed raw there's virtually no difference. Unless you mess up the exposure by like 5 stops, you ain't gaining anything more by shooting Raw with a seperate app.... especially on a phone.

Bwyan Benton said:
Shooting Raw on Google's camera app is giving you compressed raw files, which when compared to uncompressed raw there's virtually no difference. Unless you mess up the exposure by like 5 stops, you ain't gaining anything more by shooting Raw with a seperate app.... especially on a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have found that the DNG files produced with Google's camera app are missing certain metadata. For example GPS location etc. The DNG file from ProShot has this info. While this is not important to everybody, it is important to me.
Additionally I prefer using ProShot since it has more manual controls, offers a histogram and allows setting separate exposure and focus points. Even when "only" shooting in JPG I find the pictures more pleasing than the ones from Google's camera app which tend to be over processed to some extend as far as I am concerned.

stbxxl said:
I have found that the DNG files produced with Google's camera app are missing certain metadata. For example GPS location etc. The DNG file from ProShot has this info. While this is not important to everybody, it is important to me.
Additionally I prefer using ProShot since it has more manual controls, offers a histogram and allows setting separate exposure and focus points. Even when "only" shooting in JPG I find the pictures more pleasing than the ones from Google's camera app which tend to be over processed to some extend as far as I am concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I take photos with my 6 pro and edit the RAW files in Lightroom, my GPS location is still attached after I export the image. Perhaps you should check the settings in Lightroom (if that's what you use) when exporting the photo and see if it's off. I believe by default it is off. I used proshot a lot back in the day, but now I find it totally incomparable to google camera, not to mention buggy AF. But to each their own.

Bwyan Benton said:
When I take photos with my 6 pro and edit the RAW files in Lightroom, my GPS location is still attached after I export the image. Perhaps you should check the settings in Lightroom (if that's what you use) when exporting the photo and see if it's off. I believe by default it is off. I used proshot a lot back in the day, but now I find it totally incomparable to google camera, not to mention buggy AF. But to each their own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my experience, the GPS location is only embedded in the JPG file that comes with the DNG file when using Google's camera app. I checked with several programs including ACDSee Ultimate (I switched from Lightroom years ago because of its better editing tools and no annual subscription). Btw, Google Photos also doesn't show the location of the DNG file but does for the JPG file.

stbxxl said:
In my experience, the GPS location is only embedded in the JPG file that comes with the DNG file when using Google's camera app. I checked with several programs including ACDSee Ultimate (I switched from Lightroom years ago because of its better editing tools and no annual subscription). Btw, Google Photos also doesn't show the location of the DNG file but does for the JPG file.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, I'm looking at photos I took just yesterday, dngs and they have the location info attached in Google photos. As well as photos I took a few days ago.

Bwyan Benton said:
Interesting, I'm looking at photos I took just yesterday, dngs and they have the location info attached in Google photos. As well as photos I took a few days ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting indeed. I don't know what's different with my 6 Pro. I have never gotten location info for DNG files. When I use the 19 mm lens for RAW photos (not supported by 3rd party apps) I also copy the JPG file into ACDSee Ultimate and copy and paste its metadata into the DNG file. Not a big deal, but why is this necessary (at least for my setup)?

stbxxl said:
Interesting indeed. I don't know what's different with my 6 Pro. I have never gotten location info for DNG files. When I use the 19 mm lens for RAW photos (not supported by 3rd party apps) I also copy the JPG file into ACDSee Ultimate and copy and paste its metadata into the DNG file. Not a big deal, but why is this necessary (at least for my setup)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just went back to the beginning of Feb looking through photos, not all of them were dngs, but I know which ones were, and they all have my location info attached. I like to have that as well as you, so know you have me double checking and making sure lol. But for me it's all there.

I've always used the google camera app when I'm in a hurry. Otherwise, I use
Camera FV-5