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one sided promise from microsoft (re:updates) is pure fail. all parties should be brought onboard and each held accountable
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-partners-with-oems-and-carriers-to-guarantee-android-upda/
Wow, I saw AT&T on the picture, I must relook at it.
It will never happen because all the OEM's and carriers involved seem to want Microsoft and WP7 to fail.
Look at the Zune hardware. My brother had a Zune since Day 1 and he got every update and new release from Microsoft, no problem. I don't think it's a Microsoft issue, I think it's a carrier issue.
Well, that announcement says Android phones will be supported for 18 months. It doesn't say updates will be instant, OEMs won't take weeks to develop ROMs and carriers won't take weeks "testing" them.
vangrieg said:
It doesn't say updates will be instant, OEMs won't take weeks to develop ROMs and carriers won't take weeks "testing" them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you read the live update, it says:
"12:34PM New guidelines! Man, this is going to be huge. Google's laying out a timeline for how long it'll take a device to get updated once a new build is let loose, as well as how long it'll be updated beyond that."
Google and Apple are both more powerful and influential in the mobile space than Microsoft right now. I don't think Microsoft is really in the position to dictate anything to anyone right now.
And what exactly are these guidelines? Three days for a new ROM from HTC with a new Sense on it?
I mean, this is great news for Android, but there's nothing so far that says anything real about what the update experience will be.
I know it's trendy to bash MS, but WP7 has seen four updates already. And the last one was cumulative, by the way.
I don't know, I have been receiving my updates when MS release them; other than the first one that took one or two weeks every other have been the same day (but I’m not in USA).
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-clarifies-18-month-android-upgrade-program-details-far-f/
When pressed about how long it'd take updates to flow to phones after given the thumbs-up by Google itself, there's no hard news to report. In fact, the details there are still being hashed out.
To quote Google, "It's a logistics problem." We can only imagine. Trying to get every Android partner to follow a timeline for releases has to be a complete and utter nightmare, but the company seems certain that these stipulations won't cripple anyone's ability to innovate on their skins (or have too little time to make the needed changes).
We would've loved to hear a specific figure that we could start holding phone manufacturers to, but alas, it isn't to be. The only hard number thrown out today is 18 months. That's how long future hardware will be in the support cycle (at least, anyway), so you'll "soon" be able to count on your next Android device receiving all applicable updates for 1.5 years after purchase.
The guideline is yet to be hashed out. That's why they practically included everyone in the group to come up with a guide line. The only reason AT&T is included is because AT&T wants to make sure the final guideline doesn't put it in the spotlight again, like must release updates within 6 months of Google release That will never happen. I'm pretty sure the final guide line will be 12-month (from Google release the code and you see it on your phone), i.e. totally worthless and waste of time. Android is an open source platform, Google has no say about who can use the code and when they need to release the updates. The only thing Google can do is withheld Android market support.
And if they take longer than the set time frame? What happens?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Nothing would happen. It is called guide line, not rules.
Well then, that'll really be a game changer then... /sarcasm
Where is the news in this?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
munkeyphyst said:
Well then, that'll really be a game changer then... /sarcasm
Where is the news in this?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is none. FWIW MS has "guidelines" on updates as well, i.e. that carriers cannot block two consecutive updates.
-R
I smell a publicity fail from Google.
Well I have a wp7 and an android phone, I have to say there is no reason the OEMs cannot make their addtions such as the sense UI to be a replacement, that can be removed and updated seperately from the core OS. If they did that then it would allow for quicker updates.
In the past there were almost no updates done to phone other than small ones that were carrier specific (ie settings or patches) but major upgrades did not really happen. I would not be surprised if eventually updates to the phones to start costing money, much like a new version of OS X or a new version of windows does on a PC.
It's not a timeline.
It's just enforcing devices to be supported for 18 months.
It doesn't mean the manufacturers/carriers will have x amount of days after an android update to release said update. They can still release a phone with FroYo, and take 17 months to release gingerbread for that phone.
Also, it depends on whether the device's hardware supports the update and knowing Andorid manufacturers like HTC they'll just put a ROM chip too small to take any major updates in the phone, etc. Your Evo 4.0 can't support Sense 3.0? Good luck getting that update! HTC will not "downgrade" an Evo 4G from Sense 2 to Stock Android...
They are still trying to get the details panned out, but I'm not getting my hopes up. There are still phones out there sending SMS/MMS to the wrong contacts because the manufacturers don't even prioritize security updates for their phones (which, IMO, is a MUCH bigger issues than even large feature updates...). Android is a huge, hot mess when it comes to updates.
bill.g said:
Well I have a wp7 and an android phone, I have to say there is no reason the OEMs cannot make their addtions such as the sense UI to be a replacement, that can be removed and updated seperately from the core OS. If they did that then it would allow for quicker updates.
In the past there were almost no updates done to phone other than small ones that were carrier specific (ie settings or patches) but major upgrades did not really happen. I would not be surprised if eventually updates to the phones to start costing money, much like a new version of OS X or a new version of windows does on a PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you a developer?
Those aren't themes. They're deep customizations many of which have access to parts of the system that would require a "normal" app to run with Super User permissions. You can't release much of that as an App in the marketplace... Not to mention, they would just end up getting pirated by everyone and at worse breaking a bunch of phones that weren't designed to run the software (freezing them, reboot loops, making them unbootable, etc.).
There's also the issue of drivers, because different manufacturers use dispirate hardware configurations with screens, SoCs, cameras, etc. from dispirate sources. Getting all of that to work on an update is MUCH harder than getting the skins functional.
You people (generally speaking) really think the skins are the issue? They are not. Android (specifically, Linux) is the issue. The skins are easy as hell. The latest Epic 4G Gingerbread Leak has a working TouchWiz, but most of the phone/smartphone functionality is broken. That's a great example on just how easy porting the skins form version to version is. Skins typically aren't that sensitive to kernal ABI changes - device drivers ARE.
The fact that Android is based on Linux by default ensures that updates will have issues because it inherits many of Linux's issues. A Windows Mobile 6.0 update could in many cases just reuse drivers developed for Windows Mobile 5.0the same way Windows 7 can use many Windows XP drivers without any issues.
Linux doesn't have this type of backward/forward compatibility. That's why those leaked updates often have close to nothing working on them (No Wifi, no calls, no this, no that, etc.). Linux doesn't have a stable ABI for driver developers. Kernel updates can break any and/or everything. This means that the turnaround for updates is much longer than it will be for something like WP7.
The biggest issue with Android is the fact that Manufacturers and Carriers do not even prioritize critical security updates, and Google seems intent on not patching and quickly propagating patches for exploits used to root devices. Which is nice for tinkerers, but can be an issue when a malware uses that exploit on someone's device to perform malicious actions...
N8ter said:
It's not a timeline.
It's just enforcing devices to be supported for 18 months.
It doesn't mean the manufacturers/carriers will have x amount of days after an android update to release said update. They can still release a phone with FroYo, and take 17 months to release gingerbread for that phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure they said timely updates. Which means they are going to work out some sort of guidelines on how long it takes for the updates to get pushed out. What that actually is remains to be seen though.
So we all know Nodo was a bit of a mess and a lot of people got the update at different times, some had to wait months.
What confuses me is that with the Mango beta it works on any device, regardless of country or carrier... So why does the official updates need to be sent to the carrier first for them to release?
Why can't Microsoft just release 1 update, like they did for the beta, to go on all phones at the same time.. Or is that what they plan on doing this time round?
Because the carriers have MS by the short and curlies.
The carriers do (semi-legitimately) need to test the phone + OS combo on their networks. This is, generally, for the customers' benefit.
The beta was delivered direct from MS because it was a beta. There are probably clauses in contracts allowing this.
Also although the beta works on our devices, it still has to go to the hardware manufacturers, even before the carriers, to build/improve the custom drivers. This hopefully should improve the experience for end users (even further than what we've currently got).
Casey
The reason the OEMs and carriers need it is that when something goes wrong or when people ask about something, they wouldn't have any time to prepare for it - which they do now. Learn about new features and such.
Well, WP7 will be officially released in my region with Mango, and one of my largest fear is that people wont reject it because there is about 10 good apps in total, due to developers give about zero ****s about the new regions.
OndraSter said:
The reason the OEMs and carriers need it is that when something goes wrong or when people ask about something, they wouldn't have any time to prepare for it - which they do now. Learn about new features and such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In which case it would have been better for OEMs and Carriers to work with the betas like normal developers have so that when the official release is ready there's not much delay... I hope this has been the case.
Serious question, and not one to knock any developer or anyone else, and I am not complaining... But why don't we have more custom ROM's for this device?
I have owned lots of Nexus/Pixel devices in the past, and within a few months of release there were dozens of ROM's available for the device, but for this device there is a couple kernels and a few unofficial or "build it yourself" ROM's and that is it. It just seems very odd that a device so open by design and sold extremely well doesn't have more options. Why?
I admit I haven't had much involvement in the custom ROM community in a few years, and I haven't really felt a need to use a custom ROM in some time as I have been using Moto, Nokia, Nexus, and Pixel devices for the most part for years and just a few tweaks here and there are good enough, but I went to look into other possibilities with my Pixel 3a XL recently and found there just isn't much of anything.
acejavelin said:
Serious question, and not one to knock any developer or anyone else, and I am not complaining... But why don't we have more custom ROM's for this device?
I have owned lots of Nexus/Pixel devices in the past, and within a few months of release there were dozens of ROM's available for the device, but for this device there is a couple kernels and a few unofficial or "build it yourself" ROM's and that is it. It just seems very odd that a device so open by design and sold extremely well doesn't have more options. Why?
I admit I haven't had much involvement in the custom ROM community in a few years, and I haven't really felt a need to use a custom ROM in some time as I have been using Moto, Nokia, Nexus, and Pixel devices for the most part for years and just a few tweaks here and there are good enough, but I went to look into other possibilities with my Pixel 3a XL recently and found there just isn't much of anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your statement of "I haven't really felt the need to use a custom Rom..." is very telling. We also get monthly updates without jumping through hoops and we have feature sets we all like. Also Google Pay is being used more and more and you need to unlock the bootloader which breaks GP. I mean you can do kernel mods to enable it but it's just not worth it. What would you like that you don't currently have? I can name a few things like modifying location of the clock, changing vibration, things like that. But is it worth not having security updates or hoping the rom dev will update the rom? And then asking for an ETA and getting hammered by users for asking. It's just not worth it and devs have moved on to other money making ventures. Begging for donations doesn't pay the rent.
Bottom line, it's not worth it for rom devs and thus we have just a few. Flashing is not as easy as it used to be with dual slots. I remember just flashing each file and vendor and done. Bootloop, no prob just reflash the image. Not anymore. Now it's "omg your rom bricked my phone". Last thing.. we all have things to do now whereas we were young and stupid years back. Just give me a nice display, good battery, some options, and I'm good. Just some random thoughs.. agree or disagree but simply observations on my part.
There are ROMs not listed on xda available but you have to search them out. But even on that end it's in the range of 3-4 bonito ROMs that I can think of.
I'm guessing we'll see more builds sooner rather than later since 10 just got officially released earlier in the month(plus TWRP isn't available for 10 yet - not that that would stop fastboot flashable ROMs from being built). Also the upcoming release of the pixel 4 should drop prices on the 3aXl which means more people will pick up this device and more ROMs will(most likely) be built. *That's my theory at least...I've seen other devices' development happen that way in the past so that's where I'm coming from.
I also think a combination of factors has slowed development in general across the board: less people buy new phones as often now(our phone is less than 6 months old), and stock android has gotten to the point that just rooting and minor tweaking is good enough for a lot of people. Not me personally - I always use custom ROMs - but for some others all they need is slightly tweaked stock, some theme-ing ability, and a few root apps like adaway or root browser to stay happy.
But anyway, big thanks to those who are building for our device. Y'all have skills that I do not have - which are much appreciated by me & many others.
And that was kind of what I thought... The custom ROM scene, particularly on Google devices is just shrinking. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
Time will tell as this community moves into 10 development, but I'm guessing things will pick up a bit. Hang in there:good:
Bob nesta said:
There are ROMs not listed on xda available but you have to search them out. But even on that end it's in the range of 3-4 bonito ROMs that I can think of..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For Android 10? Ive seen zero. 10 is very different than Pie and Bonito has a bunch of uniqueness as well. Building 10 for it is no small task and may take a while before you see 10 Roms for it. Even the handful of Rom devs (or teams) that have 10 builds dont have Bonito.
This is very similar to when Shamu came out. It took 2-3 months before custom Roms were working as there were so many changes from Hammerhead and Marshmallow was a very different build vs KitKat. There were also very unique challenges when Marlin came out for the same reasons. I hope to have Velocity up and running in the next few weeks but I wouldnt hold my breath on it as this has been one of the most challenging updates Ive come across and Ive been building Roms for Nexus/Pixel devices since JellyBean.
ctfrommn said:
For Android 10? Ive seen zero. 10 is very different than Pie and Bonito has a bunch of uniqueness as well. Building 10 for it is no small task and may take a while before you see 10 Roms for it. Even the handful of Rom devs (or teams) that have 10 builds dont have Bonito.
This is very similar to when Shamu came out. It took 2-3 months before custom Roms were working as there were so many changes from Hammerhead and Marshmallow was a very different build vs KitKat. There were also very unique challenges when Marlin came out for the same reasons. I hope to have Velocity up and running in the next few weeks but I wouldnt hold my breath on it as this has been one of the most challenging updates Ive come across and Ive been building Roms for Nexus/Pixel devices since JellyBean.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, not for 10. I was referring to pie. I'm pretty sure some of those pie ROMs slowed development down in anticipation for 10, so it's just a slow time right now.
It's cool... I understand a lot of work goes into building, so when/if they come - they come.
One question - does the a/b partitioning and lack of recovery partition make building harder or easier? (This is my first a/b device...just wondering.)
*And thanks for your hard work; I've been lurking on your kernel thread and see how much you've been refining it. Looking forward to your ROM whenever it drops. :good:
Never owned or dev'd for an a/b device except Marlin (Pixel 1) and that was pretty different from this I believe. Lack of recovery only affects how we flash it. The biggest issue right now is getting all the needed vendor/device stuff for it to boot and run right. No idea why this is never fully included with AOSP + posted binaries but it isnt.
The kernel (as always) is much simpler than a full Rom. Im still trying to get my head fully around the nuances for building a Rom for this. Rest assured they will come. Im definitely going to be spending more time on that side now.
---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 AM ----------
acejavelin said:
The custom ROM scene, particularly on Google devices is just shrinking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most people that bought the Pixels had little need for a custom Rom. This will change I think with the lower cost of the "a" line. So many people jumped off the Google phone train when the Nexus died and the cost was simply higher than they/I/we wanted to spend for a phone. The "a" line is a lot of what the Nexus line was so I would guess this will bring many back, though OP has done a good job taking and keeping most of them.
Not sure I would agree with that.
The elephant in the room is the activity across this entire forum section; there are few people here compared to another Pixel like the vanilla 3XL, massively less than you'll find over on the OnePlus sections. They're giving the A series credit for Goog seeing an 88% increase in Pixel sales this year but those sales do not appear to be to people like us that frequent this place, if they were, they would be here. I think at least for now this phone sold to ordinary folk, people who have never looked at their phones and wondered if they're truly bricked or just soft-bricked. Can't honestly say I know I'm right here but a look at the activity and available goodies over in OnePlus land is certainly compelling. Less money and bigger numbers along with an unlocked bootloader have attracted plenty of enthusiasts and along with them, development.
The regular 3 has been out a lot longer and development is mature. I also cant say Im definitively right either of course and I 100% agree OP has taken most of the low budget enthusiasts over to their side, especially outside the US.
Either way, it makes no nevermind to me. I will always build for the device I own and choose the device I own very carefully. There will be at least Velocity for the 3a XL its just a matter of how long it takes to get it up and running.
And yes, the lack of activity in this forum is almost shocking to me but last I was here with any regularity was in the Nexus 4/Nexus 5 days which was the wild west of Android development.
Let's not forget to mention the constant free advertising xda does for oneplus as well; that definitely helps their cause.
*And I'll admit it - I fell for it myself: bought a oneplus 7 pro, found that I hate curved displays, and returned it the next day - but the hype on xda fooled me for sure. The 7t pro looks nice, but I'm good - I'm hanging in with my bonito and seeing where things go.
krabman said:
Not sure I would agree with that.
The elephant in the room is the activity across this entire forum section; there are few people here compared to another Pixel like the vanilla 3XL, massively less than you'll find over on the OnePlus sections. They're giving the A series credit for Goog seeing an 88% increase in Pixel sales this year but those sales do not appear to be to people like us that frequent this place, if they were, they would be here. I think at least for now this phone sold to ordinary folk, people who have never looked at their phones and wondered if they're truly bricked or just soft-bricked. Can't honestly say I know I'm right here but a look at the activity and available goodies over in OnePlus land is certainly compelling. Less money and bigger numbers along with an unlocked bootloader have attracted plenty of enthusiasts and along with them, development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha. "vanilla 3XL" far superior to any 3a. I will go with small a
It doesn't surprise me because I, too, am finding myself comfortable with stock and avoiding all the inconveniences (mainly the merry-go-round of breaking things that check for root)... the only thing I really miss is being able to block ads and titanium backup. But it just isn't bothering me enough to care...
Golf c said:
Hahaha. "vanilla 3XL" far superior to any 3a. I will go with small a
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I owned the 3XL and didn't find it far superior. In fact I took it back and got a 6T while I waited for the next thing. Mainly it was the notch, and redraws in the GUI. In any event I only meant to refer to the regular 3XL or by extension any Pixel.
I guess if I paid @$300-400usd more for a device that has a smaller battery, with the same camera hardware(rear - don't care about the selfie cam), no headphone jack, and had a hideous notch so the OEM can claim "small bezels" - I may also be bitter & lurking in other devices' threads & talking smack(so I could feel better about my purchase...?)
Enjoy your 3xl and your notch... I guess. Congrats. :good:
Anytime you want to contribute to the 3axl community you are totally welcome to. No bitterness here. Otherwise...please go back to your "far superior" 3xl land please. We are not good enough for you here.
Take care.
*Bows down to the "far superior" 3xl owner*:angel:
I'm not going to claim expertise when I say this but I can call out plenty of experience on XDA over the course of many phones: I would not expect this forum section to be getting more active in the future. I'm not saying a ROM wont come but there was never much activity here at any time, it is quite slow now, it continues to get slower. Everything I've seen over my time here tells me that trend will continue. I'm honestly surprised about that because I had thought when I purchased this phone that this section would be moderately active. I was wrong. I don't like saying that and wish it wasn't true but that's how I see it.
I'll be off toward 4XL land soon; I have all the coffee tables a man needs in one life and I like my toys.
krabman said:
I'm not going to claim expertise when I say this but I can call out plenty of experience on XDA over the course of many phones: I would not expect this forum section to be getting more active in the future. I'm not saying a ROM wont come but there was never much activity here at any time, it is quite slow now, it continues to get slower. Everything I've seen over my time here tells me that trend will continue. I'm honestly surprised about that because I had thought when I purchased this phone that this section would be moderately active. I was wrong. I don't like saying that and wish it wasn't true but that's how I see it.
I'll be off toward 4XL land soon; I have all the coffee tables a man needs in one life and I like my toys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean bezzels right not coffee tables. Hahaha
acejavelin said:
Serious question, and not one to knock any developer or anyone else, and I am not complaining... But why don't we have more custom ROM's for this device?
I have owned lots of Nexus/Pixel devices in the past, and within a few months of release there were dozens of ROM's available for the device, but for this device there is a couple kernels and a few unofficial or "build it yourself" ROM's and that is it. It just seems very odd that a device so open by design and sold extremely well doesn't have more options. Why?
I admit I haven't had much involvement in the custom ROM community in a few years, and I haven't really felt a need to use a custom ROM in some time as I have been using Moto, Nokia, Nexus, and Pixel devices for the most part for years and just a few tweaks here and there are good enough, but I went to look into other possibilities with my Pixel 3a XL recently and found there just isn't much of anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I personally have stopped using custom ROMs after switching to a Pixel. Before this, I always was eager to install AOSP-based ROMs on my previous devices (Samsung and LG).
But especially LG is a disappointment software-wise: My LG G5 had a very good battery runtime with the initial ROM, but future updates killed this. Not to speak of non-existing updates and even security patches. My Samsungs were just awful from the start, they were immediately in dire need of AOSP.
On top, updating vendor images always was a PITA.. On my G5, I always had to do a clean flash, get rid of the bloat, flash the GApps etc.
But the Pixels are different. They also can have a bug here and there, but nothing severe. Battery runtime stays good with updates, and security patches always are on time. Updates are easy even when you are rooted.
Hence I just rooted my Pixel 3a XL and called it a day. Since Android 10 with its dark mode, I can even skip Substratum. YMMV of course, but this is how I see it.
I only root for system-wide adblock and HEBF Optimizer. Everything else is stock.
Custom Roms arent all (or even mostly) about features. There is so much more performance (and efficiency) to be had by building vs stock. Development will break loose soon enough. And when it does, then we will see what this device is truly capable of.
Global LTE variant (SM-R805F).
All builds:
http://fota-cloud-dn.ospserver.net/firmware/ZTA/SM-R805F/version.test.xml
Released:
http://fota-cloud-dn.ospserver.net/firmware/ZTA/SM-R805F/version.xml
Also for regions other than ZTA, change the region in the links and see for yourself.
Mine has still the September update with the apps-don't-update bug. So much for a flagship.
Don't blame it on the carriers, open models suffer from the same lack of respect for the customer.
All builds:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.
You know what test means?
Because your Link contains test builds.... and...
Btw. Internal Server for internal purposes....
2.
You are able to differ between User and Engineer Builds?
Because Engineer variant not for puplic...
Example:
Code:
R805FXX[COLOR="Red"][B]E[/B][/COLOR]1ESF6
E like Engineer
Here for example "User"...
Code:
R805FXX[B][COLOR="Green"]U[/COLOR][/B]1FSL5
3.
Best Regards
LOL, they don't release them because probably no one in their right mind would use some of them.
adfree said:
1.
You know what test means?
Because your Link contains test builds.... and...
Btw. Internal Server for internal purposes....
2.
You are able to differ between User and Engineer Builds?
Because Engineer variant not for puplic...
Example:
Code:
R805FXX[COLOR="Red"][B]E[/B][/COLOR]1ESF6
E like Engineer
Here for example "User"...
Code:
R805FXX[B][COLOR="Green"]U[/COLOR][/B]1FSL5
3.
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what xxS mean in fw number?
what xxS mean in fw number?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, no idea yet.
Can you give FULL example?
Where you saw this?
Best Regards
adfree said:
1.
You know what test means?
Because your Link contains test builds.... and...
Btw. Internal Server for internal purposes....
2.
You are able to differ between User and Engineer Builds?
Because Engineer variant not for puplic...
Example:
Code:
R805FXX[COLOR="Red"][B]E[/B][/COLOR]1ESF6
E like Engineer
Here for example "User"...
Code:
R805FXX[B][COLOR="Green"]U[/COLOR][/B]1FSL5
3.
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why almost none of the U builds get released? There're plenty of them.
Then why almost none of the U builds get released? There're plenty of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 Reason QA...
Maybe few of them have more Bugs...
Under Development.. no Final Stage...
IMHO Test Server with word test is self explaining...
IMHO you are End User... Not Field tester or Developer or other Employe for Quality Assurblabla...
1 more reason...
Internal of Samsung R&D...
Btw... Samsung doing daily Builds... also...
Some tiny exercises.. for R&D...
Best Regards
adfree said:
1 Reason QA...
Maybe few of them have more Bugs...
Under Development.. no Final Stage...
IMHO Test Server with word test is self explaining...
IMHO you are End User... Not Field tester or Developer or other Employe for Quality Assurblabla...
1 more reason...
Internal of Samsung R&D...
Btw... Samsung doing daily Builds... also...
Some tiny exercises.. for R&D...
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply. But questions still arise.
Samsung releases build after build for the Note 9, for instance. The Galaxy Watch is far less complicated, it runs on in-house OS, then the question, why so few builds are released, and so seldom?
I believe there's a either a lack of organization, or a lack of interest, or a lack of capacity, or any combination of those, from Samsung's part.
My Galaxy Watch LTE got its first update in February, build RK (November 2018). The SB build (February 2019) came in on May, still without One UI. Then it took an eon for the September build (SI) to be released, and it was only released in November 3 and in the middle of the night, because hours earlier the February build started daylight savings time when there's no more DST here and all watches were off by one hour.
The SI build came in with not only One UI, but also the well-known, goddamned cannot-update-Samsung-Health-and-some-other-built-in-apps bug that was fixed in June on other regions, which BTW got One UI 6 in May, 6 months earlier than mine.
It's been more than 3 months that I'm dealing with this bug with no way to convince Samsung Health, which can't be updated, that I'm not swimming double the pool lengths that I'm actually swimming, among several annoying, disabling bugs that have already been corrected in the apps but due to the cannot-update bug haven't been updated.
In short, other regions got One UI in May and the fix for the cannot-update bug the month following, here we got One UI in November and more than 3 months after that the patch for the same bug is yet to come.
So forgive me for the lengthy reply, but there's more to it than R&D and codes and tests and builds. Namely Galaxy Watch Active2, I'd risk saying.
My son has a GW, like mine, but it's only the BT version. Last update: December (SL), One UI 1.5, no bugs.
The LTE version is screwed up in updates all around the world, and the Brazilian units are the most forgotten of the bunch.
I'm not entirely sure which forum would be most appropriate to post this under, but this seems like a decent candidate, so I'm starting here. If this would fit better somewhere else, please feel to redirect me, and/or even move the thread if appropriate. I think I've read all the appropriate sticky threads et cetera, but if I do make / am making a faux pas, please let me know.
As you're probably aware (https://www.xda-developers.com/t-mobile-att-require-volte-phone-calls-shut-down-3g/), T-Mobile is expected to shut down its non-VoLTE voice service in January of 2021. As a result, it's imperative for anyone who gets phone service through them to have a phone with working VoLTE support before that point. As that includes me, I've been looking into that.
I currently have a Samsung Galaxy S5, purchased through T-Mobile back in 2015 (if I'm not mistaken, it's a SM-G900T). There seem to be fairly solid statements that this model does support VoLTE under the stock ROM, and indeed T-Mobile support seems to think that it should be working.
I run LineageOS - specifically klte, which matches that model. I'm currently on the August 30th, 2020 "nightly" build of version 16.0 (which was the latest available for that model as of earlier today), on top of TWRP 3.3.1 (ditto). I only recently upgraded from TWRP 2.8.7 and (IIRC) LineageOS 14.1, which I'd been running since sometime in 2017 for reasons that are out of scope but I can describe briefly if desired. The upgrade was specifically in hopes that newer LineageOS would have VoLTE support options which the earlier version did not, but that seems to have been a futile hope.
After some fairly extensive digging (mostly online, but with some poking around on my own device and in my own backups et cetera), I've concluded that while it is theoretically possible to have VoLTE support on this device under LineageOS, it's likely to be effectively impossible in practice. Threads such as https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s5/devs-only/port-ims-manager-to-klte-t3551084 (not the only place I've looked, but probably the last before giving up) seem to indicate that the only way to get it to work - short of reverse engineering enough of the underlying system to be able to reimplement Samsung's closed IMS implementation for that model - would be to find a Galaxy S5 with the stock ROM and working VoLTE, and copy the appropriate files out of that and into the correct places on the LineageOS-based version of the system.
I thought I'd kept a backup of the stock ROM which my S5 came with, but I haven't managed to find any sign of it in my archives. I don't think I have any other way to get at the correct files, never mind figure out where they need to go and get them there; I certainly couldn't justify buying another S5 just to be able to extract the stock ROM.
As linked from the thread referenced above, there do appear to be, or have been, other custom ROMs for the Galaxy S5 which include - or included - VoLTE support. However, I'm otherwise quite happy with LineageOS, and don't want to switch to another custom ROM line - especially since I want to avoid the data loss that would come with wiping my phone to install another ROM, unless there's absolutely no way to avoid it.
Are there any prospects for my being able to get VoLTE working on this phone under LineageOS? If so, what would I need to do to manage that, within the January deadline?
If not, or if what prospects there are don't pan out, I'm going to need to acquire a new smartphone which will be able to have VoLTE under LineageOS, and preferably one which will at least approximate meeting the other criteria which led me to select the Galaxy S5 in the first place and stick with it all this time. In particular, A: I all but insist on a conveniently user-swappable battery (I carry at least one fully-charged spare in my back pocket at all times), not so much for field battery life extension as to be able to replace the battery rather than the phone when the battery inevitably bloats and dies (I'm on something like my seventh battery for this S5), B: I really like having separate dedicated "home", "back", and (for lack of a better term) "active applications list" buttons, and the only model I know for sure has them is the S5 itself, and C: I very much want to have a traditional headphone jack. Expandable storage, in the form of a suitable SD-card slot, would also be nice but is not strictly required.
What models can I expect to be able to get VoLTE working on under LineageOS, with good support in other regards, within that January deadline? The model-support information I've been able to find in searching thus far does not seem to provide any clear indication on this point.
I don't expect recommendations on what smartphone models will be able to also meet my other criteria, although of course it would be nice; that would probably fit better under the "what phone should I buy next?" thread over in General Q&A.
No chance for adding volte. It's utopic to believe you could eben keep you phone setup.
You don't share your reason for using lineageOS. If it's about avoiding preinstalled apps, you can instead debloat stock rom.
kurtn said:
No chance for adding volte. It's utopic to believe you could eben keep you phone setup.
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I was afraid of that, but I did still have some hope.
Is that klte/S5-specific, or is it a more general statement about LineageOS at large, which holds true regardless of phone model?
If the latter, then LineageOS is soon to become unusable for anyone with T-Mobile service, which seems like a major problem that people would already be working actively to try to correct. (I also think I heard that other providers may make a similar change, which would make the problem more widespread; I specifically half-remember articles about AT&T in that regard. No concrete backup for that at the moment, though.)
If the former, then what phone models are there for which VoLTE does or can readily be made to work under LineageOS?
kurtn said:
You don't share your reason for using lineageOS. If it's about avoiding preinstalled apps, you can instead debloat stock rom.
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I'm a little surprised that the reasons would even be asked about, given that this is a LineageOS-specific forum; I wouldn't expect the people here to be up for directing people away from LineageOS to other ROMs.
My original impetus for using LineageOS (at the time, CyanogenMod) was simply one of principle about avoiding proprietary software and vendor lock-in/lockdown/et cetera. I also like the ability to control updates on my own, both in terms of being able to determine when I update to a new version and of being able to continue to get updates independent of whether the manufacturer/carrier/etc. continues to release them.
Avoiding preinstalled apps is certainly one aspect of it, but it's by no means the only one.
I also doubt that I could simply debloat the stock ROM, for the simple reason that I don't think I *have* the stock ROM - or if I do, it's years out of date (as I said, 2015). I left a search running overnight, and on that basis have managed to find the backup copy of the stock image that was on the phone when I received it, but unless trying to extract the necessary stack components for VoLTE support from it might be viable after all I don't know how useful that will turn out to be.
(I'm probably going to invest some time into looking into that today, anyway, but I don't really expect to get any results out of it.)
Alias Bongo said:
I was afraid of that, but I did still have some hope.
Is that klte/S5-specific, or is it a more general statement about LineageOS at large, which holds true regardless of phone model?
If the latter, then LineageOS is soon to become unusable for anyone with T-Mobile service, which seems like a major problem that people would already be working actively to try to correct. (I also think I heard that other providers may make a similar change, which would make the problem more widespread; I specifically half-remember articles about AT&T in that regard. No concrete backup for that at the moment, though.)
If the former, then what phone models are there for which VoLTE does or can readily be made to work under LineageOS?
I'm a little surprised that the reasons would even be asked about, given that this is a LineageOS-specific forum; I wouldn't expect the people here to be up for directing people away from LineageOS to other ROMs.
My original impetus for using LineageOS (at the time, CyanogenMod) was simply one of principle about avoiding proprietary software and vendor lock-in/lockdown/et cetera. I also like the ability to control updates on my own, both in terms of being able to determine when I update to a new version and of being able to continue to get updates independent of whether the manufacturer/carrier/etc. continues to release them.
Avoiding preinstalled apps is certainly one aspect of it, but it's by no means the only one.
I also doubt that I could simply debloat the stock ROM, for the simple reason that I don't think I *have* the stock ROM - or if I do, it's years out of date (as I said, 2015). I left a search running overnight, and on that basis have managed to find the backup copy of the stock image that was on the phone when I received it, but unless trying to extract the necessary stack components for VoLTE support from it might be viable after all I don't know how useful that will turn out to be.
(I'm probably going to invest some time into looking into that today, anyway, but I don't really expect to get any results out of it.)
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I think your chances for volte are better if you change from samsung to motorola.
kurtn said:
I think your chances for volte are better if you change from samsung to motorola.
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That's unfortunately fairly vague, as a basis for going out and buying a smartphone.
What I'm looking for in terms of "VoLTE does or can readily be made to work under LineageOS" is something for which a statement like one of the following can be made:
"Yes, VoLTE works on this model under LineageOS out of the box; you don't need to do anything special to get it working, just flash LineageOS and go."
"Yes, it's possible to get VoLTE working on this model under LineageOS; here's what you need to do to get it working, beyond just flashing LineageOS."
Do you know of any specific smartphone models for which you can make one of those statements?
While I'm not against investigating and experimenting and trying things out to get things to work, and in fact sometimes that can even be fun, I do not want to do that in a production environment - and I'm under deadline (albeit with a few months to go), with limited resources for experimenting (in the form of money to buy smartphones which might work), before this becomes a critical production environment.
(Also, I've found what look like IMS-related files in the backup copy of the stock ROM, which don't seem to exist in the LineageOS that's currently running on my phone. Depending on what they look like on further examination, I may try pulling them in and seeing if anything changes; worst-case scenario, I should just have to boot to recovery and restore a backup.)
Alias Bongo said:
That's unfortunately fairly vague, as a basis for going out and buying a smartphone.
What I'm looking for in terms of "VoLTE does or can readily be made to work under LineageOS" is something for which a statement like one of the following can be made:
"Yes, VoLTE works on this model under LineageOS out of the box; you don't need to do anything special to get it working, just flash LineageOS and go."
"Yes, it's possible to get VoLTE working on this model under LineageOS; here's what you need to do to get it working, beyond just flashing LineageOS."
Do you know of any specific smartphone models for which you can make one of those statements?
While I'm not against investigating and experimenting and trying things out to get things to work, and in fact sometimes that can even be fun, I do not want to do that in a production environment - and I'm under deadline (albeit with a few months to go), with limited resources for experimenting (in the form of money to buy smartphones which might work), before this becomes a critical production environment.
(Also, I've found what look like IMS-related files in the backup copy of the stock ROM, which don't seem to exist in the LineageOS that's currently running on my phone. Depending on what they look like on further examination, I may try pulling them in and seeing if anything changes; worst-case scenario, I should just have to boot to recovery and restore a backup.)
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Yes. Moto e2 lte surnia has volte in LineageOS out of the box.
kurtn said:
Yes. Moto e2 lte surnia has volte in LineageOS out of the box.
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Thanks! I'll investigate that option, then, in addition to any others that present themselves.
Alias Bongo said:
(Also, I've found what look like IMS-related files in the backup copy of the stock ROM, which don't seem to exist in the LineageOS that's currently running on my phone. Depending on what they look like on further examination, I may try pulling them in and seeing if anything changes; worst-case scenario, I should just have to boot to recovery and restore a backup.)
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Click to collapse
Unsurprisingly, it doesn't seem to be that simple. The files involved in this are themselves few enough, and most although not all of them don't seem to exist in the currently-running image, so they can be copied in without further ado - but there are enough references to them in other files, which either *do* exist (and so would need to be edited, in a way that leaves things compatible with both systems) or seem likely to themselves (need to) be referenced elsewhere, that the whole thing turns into a mess of cascading complexity.
Short of input from someone with expertise on IMS/VoLTE implementation from some other model, I suspect this won't turn out to be a viable avenue to pursue, at least not unless and until I have my hands on a Galaxy S5 which isn't my production phone and as such can be used for experimentation. Even then, I'll probably need to basically build my own custom ROM (or custom local build of LineageOS, at least) rather than just inserting files into a system built from an existing one.
I've looked briefly into the Moto E2, and while it does look like the newest/final models of it would support VoLTE in a way that LineageOS would plausibly be able to handle, it's also at least nearly as old as the S5 and is less capable and desirable in other ways. It'd be better than nothing, but not something I would prefer as my first choice.
I'm hoping that other people chime in with more models to suggest. As this is going to become increasingly important as more carriers shut down their 3G/2G networks, and VoLTE becomes the only way to do voice calling, I'd ideally like to see a page - possibly this thread, possibly another one, possibly a Wiki page - with as comprehensive a listing of phone models which *are* known to have working VoLTE support under LineageOS (and/or possibly other non-stock ROMs) as possible, including links to any necessary how-to directions per model and notes on any special criteria (e.g., carrier-specific support or support differences between regions or the like). I hoped something like that would already exist, given the apparent upcoming VoLTEpocalypse - but as it doesn't seem to (or at least I haven't managed to find one thus far), it wouldn't hurt to start trying to create one.
My understanding is that Verizon is apparently going to make the "VoLTE mandatory" transition in January, much the same as T-Mobile, and AT&T is planning to do it sometime in 2022. With Sprint out of the picture after the T-Mobile merger, that's basically all of the major US wireless carriers that I'm aware of, so this will be universal (at least in the USA) before too very long. Some amount of preparation to make sure the custom-ROM field will remain viable past that point would seem appropriate; I'm surprised by how little activity in that area I've been able to find thus far.
Alias Bongo said:
Unsurprisingly, it doesn't seem to be that simple. The files involved in this are themselves few enough, and most although not all of them don't seem to exist in the currently-running image, so they can be copied in without further ado - but there are enough references to them in other files, which either *do* exist (and so would need to be edited, in a way that leaves things compatible with both systems) or seem likely to themselves (need to) be referenced elsewhere, that the whole thing turns into a mess of cascading complexity.
Short of input from someone with expertise on IMS/VoLTE implementation from some other model, I suspect this won't turn out to be a viable avenue to pursue, at least not unless and until I have my hands on a Galaxy S5 which isn't my production phone and as such can be used for experimentation. Even then, I'll probably need to basically build my own custom ROM (or custom local build of LineageOS, at least) rather than just inserting files into a system built from an existing one.
I've looked briefly into the Moto E2, and while it does look like the newest/final models of it would support VoLTE in a way that LineageOS would plausibly be able to handle, it's also at least nearly as old as the S5 and is less capable and desirable in other ways. It'd be better than nothing, but not something I would prefer as my first choice.
I'm hoping that other people chime in with more models to suggest. As this is going to become increasingly important as more carriers shut down their 3G/2G networks, and VoLTE becomes the only way to do voice calling, I'd ideally like to see a page - possibly this thread, possibly another one, possibly a Wiki page - with as comprehensive a listing of phone models which *are* known to have working VoLTE support under LineageOS (and/or possibly other non-stock ROMs) as possible, including links to any necessary how-to directions per model and notes on any special criteria (e.g., carrier-specific support or support differences between regions or the like). I hoped something like that would already exist, given the apparent upcoming VoLTEpocalypse - but as it doesn't seem to (or at least I haven't managed to find one thus far), it wouldn't hurt to start trying to create one.
My understanding is that Verizon is apparently going to make the "VoLTE mandatory" transition in January, much the same as T-Mobile, and AT&T is planning to do it sometime in 2022. With Sprint out of the picture after the T-Mobile merger, that's basically all of the major US wireless carriers that I'm aware of, so this will be universal (at least in the USA) before too very long. Some amount of preparation to make sure the custom-ROM field will remain viable past that point would seem appropriate; I'm surprised by how little activity in that area I've been able to find thus far.
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Totally agree, I'm surprised this news hasn't gotten more attention in the community. First came to mind, "ah crap, no more custom roms." (perse).
I started a thread on this on the LG v50 forums to raise awareness, hopefully there can be workarounds:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/v50-thinq/help/att-t-mobile-to-off-3g-networks-disable-t4163491
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By forcing VOLTE, this can potentially lock out some unlocked phones and also exclude custom roms, forcing users to buy carrier branded phones. In addition, shutting down 3G and forcing 4G VOLTE will ensure that lots of customers upgrade/buy new phones when their current phone may be perfectly fine otherwise(unnecessary costs and more perfectly working phones in the land fill in vain).
IIRC, you could use a stock from on your S5 and just remove the bad parts. It's no substitute for AOSP but you got to do what you got to do. Plus it's free. The stock files should be available and you can use recovery to image your phone so you don't lose your data. That is the route I would go and can't really do on my S3.
Other phone selections are looking GRIM in terms of removable batteries, reasonable size, etc. You can look to the V20 or G5 from LG but you will have to do the above process and that is almost where I'm at. Poked and prodded rom isn't the end, I did it for years on my gS2 when AOSP couldn't get HW fully functional.
Motorola has models that do work but they are mostly sealed units and everything is really hard to find as its plastered all over XDA in posts from years ago. Do all rom links even work?
While we were sleeping people got taken over by the machine and the devs didn't know what was coming or couldn't figure out the proprietary implementations.
The question with Tmo is also, is band 12 mandatory or will other phones work on 2 and 4 and volte over that. Nobody has even asked the question. I'm going to try to be safe.
DUP deleted
So odd that such a fatal issue seems to be imminently coming without some progress being made to avert it because unneeded and dangerous 5g is crowding out 2g & 3g. The s5 and note 4 are THE gold standard of excellent screen and hardware and thus the only real choices of replaceable battery phones - the REAL reason that phone mfg force millions of phones to be tossed in the landfills - shame on them! Custom Roms provide extremely important current security updates and allow apks that are updated and no longer work on slightly older android 6 versions (chase, Starbucks, united, etc). Pretty bad to discover after factory resetting a phone that play store won't let you download current or working version.
Perhaps we can crowd fund developers to attack this looming disaster soon?
uds0 said:
So odd that such a fatal issue seems to be imminently coming without some progress being made to avert it because unneeded and dangerous 5g is crowding out 2g & 3g. The s5 and note 4 are THE gold standard of excellent screen and hardware and thus the only real choices of replaceable battery phones - the REAL reason that phone mfg force millions of phones to be tossed in the landfills - shame on them! Custom Roms provide extremely important current security updates and allow apks that are updated and no longer work on slightly older android 6 versions (chase, Starbucks, united, etc). Pretty bad to discover after factory resetting a phone that play store won't let you download current or working version.
Perhaps we can crowd fund developers to attack this looming disaster soon?
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Attack
ＧΛËＬＤＵＶΛＬ (@[email protected])
We're in the process to backport VoLTE support to /e/OS on Samsung Galaxy S9 (Exynos). We're looking for strong expertise here. If you know some true experts in the VoLTE support field, please get in touch! (mailto: [email protected]) #VoLTE #engineering...
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