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I was reading through lifehacker.com the other day (my SECOND favorite website ) when I came across a link to an instructables guide on turning a netbook into a tablet and it got me thinking. Why should I have to buy a $500+ tablet every year or two, or settle for a crappy $200 one when I can buy a used netbook and make it new again for half the price of the high end ones and probably better performing than the low end? Plus I'd have upgradability when it starts being sluggish in the future.
Here's the thing: I'm not content with essentially making a netbook into a slate that runs WinXP and calling it a day. I want it to run Android and have (most of) the bells and whistles. All on a budget of $250. What I'm thinking of so far is this:
10.1" Intel-Atom tablet, ebay ~$70
CAPACITIVE touchscreen overlay ~$110
SSD ~$60
Which leaves me with about 10 bucks for stuff to make it look good.
There is an x86 android port floating around on the internet that I plan on using and I've seen netbooks with built in GPS/gyro/accelerometer/etc. Although, I'm not so sure if just booting Android will get all of that to work of if I'll have to somehow write my own drivers... Honestly, I would have no idea where to start on that. Does anyone have any insight into how that might/might not work?
I don't have any of the parts yet, but have begun bidding on some stuff on ebay. If anyone would like to sell me something that might help, PM me. If you all are interested, I'll post updates and pictures as I'm working on it, however if not, then I'll probably just post something of the finished product. Functioning hardware or not.
Whether or not any of you take an interest in this project, I would appreciate any comments or advice that you can offer. I'm sure that as I go along I'll have questions to ask and hopefully one of you will be able to help.
I read the same thing and I would interested in how you go about it. I was not impressed with the lifehacker.com instructions or any of the other ones I found on line.
Thanks for the interest, glsooter. I still plan on completing this project sometime this summer probably and will update with pictures and what I am doing, but unfortunately I've had to make a few changes. It won't primarily run Android, although I could dual boot. My main reasoning behind this is that it would be impossible for me with my skill set to add the required hardware and then get it to work (such as accelerometer and gyroscope). Also, the capacitive touch screen I want to get is apparently Windows only. I'm thinking of using the Windows 8 preview or alternatively loading Win7 and using Rainmeter or something similar to give it a touchscreen functional layout. I also want to take a Bluetooth keyboard and make some sort of dock, like the Transformer Prime. My newest goals for the project is to have a portable tablet-esque gadget that I will use for retro gaming with a BT controller or mobile (android) gaming and productivity using BlueStacks. If I need laptop functionality I can use the BT keyboard/mouse combo for word processing or note taking. There are obviously some details to be hammered out, but I'm now thinking it will be closer to $350, which I feel is reasonable for something like this.
I was thinking about installing android on my 12.1" asus eepc with intel atom but i cant do it now (i get it in next month). I want to try how it works with android (maybe there are no need for drivers or only some of them?). If i get it earlier i try it and i can write here results how it works for me.
PS.
Could u give me link to android x86 and installing market on it (i heard that it must be installed other way). thanks
PS2.
I will be using it without touchscreen
that sound like a really good idea, but maybe not as a tablet alone but as a laptop+tablet, like the Thinkpad X Tablet series.
So i tried and installed android-x86 on my eeepc 1201nl and only froyo is working I wanted ics but i take what i can.
Working on it is very easy (even without touchscreen). I have problems only with wifi (cant connect to router). I found that some other people have similar problems.
However i will be trying it again and again. I want ics
Sent using r800i with DoomKernel v11 (1.21ghz)
I am looking for a replacement to the mad catz m.o.j.o console i had a refund on it but i want open android with superb graphics really,but the thing is i don't want anything too expensive or too cheap either,the problem is i don't know what models are best,or more importantly for this section of the forum what i can do in relation to getting a fire tv gaming and web browsing etc?Can i play games can more importantly can i sideload and also can i sideload downloaded stuff? Or possibly flash a rom on it?
PHYSC-1 said:
I am looking for a replacement to the mad catz m.o.j.o console i had a refund on it but i want open android with superb graphics really,but the thing is i don't want anything too expensive or too cheap either,the problem is i don't know what models are best,or more importantly for this section of the forum what i can do in relation to getting a fire tv gaming and web browsing etc?Can i play games can more importantly can i sideload and also can i sideload downloaded stuff? Or possibly flash a rom on it?
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Dont take this the wrong way, but to get everythihg you want you will need to custom build a HTPC with a computer. These android boxes are good and most are cheap, but they do have limitations and will not meeet all your expectations.
IMO, the FTV is the best box on the market in the under $150 category. If you are willing to comprimise, it should meet most of you expectations. All you questions are answered in this forum, so read up or use search.
byrdcfmma said:
Dont take this the wrong way, but to get everythihg you want you will need to custom build a HTPC with a computer. These android boxes are good and most are cheap, but they do have limitations and will not meeet all your expectations.
IMO, the FTV is the best box on the market in the under $150 category. If you are willing to comprimise, it should meet most of you expectations. All you questions are answered in this forum, so read up or use search.
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Had enough of pc's i am a computer repair technician,i want it for the lower power consumption but with nearing or par with console level graphics.Pc's are too expensive to run they are rubbish in small form factors they tend to burn out on the bridge on the board, or they come with cheap [email protected] psu's that cost a bomb for good one's in small form factor.If there's one thing i learned quickly it was never buy small form factor pc's if you want it to last or not to overheat.
But on the other hand android tv box's don't push the same high level temps because they are only passively cooled quite often as apposed to actively cooled,besides if i really want i'll cooling mod it like my k-r42 with 80mm fan and shimmed.
But basically i want an android unit that has gaming power beyond a mali400 and closing in on if not better than a snapdragon 8xx chip.I've looked at the huwaei tron but it's yet again a 4.2x android system with no guarentee my tv will be supported over hdmi properly i learned that from my mad catz m.o.j.o not outputting 1080p on my 1080p tv.So i may just hang on until k1 touches down in shops but it looks like they are not in a hurry although there is the mipad rumor,i think i'll be waiting until 2015 at this rate before a god unit comes out that has kitkat on it,i was wondering if any rockchip 8 core cpu's are out in tv box form yet,and if they have a heightened gpu to the mali 400? And was also wondering where they fit in terms of graphical power?
Firetv is anything but open. IMO android boxes are all underpowered and frustratingly issue laden. Pity as I too am wanting to buy something good... I bought a s89 tronsmart and it's not as good as I'd hoped. I was interested in the MOJO... Why did you return it, it's a lot more open than Amazon firetv surely?
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
I've bought it as replacement for raspberry pi and was disappointed. Yes Fire TV build perfectly and has a good hardware. But software is a crap and no way for root by now, only hopes and blocking of update server. It's not clear for now what improvements OTA brings and if root will be issued. If you looking for a good device that works and not for fun reverse engineering hours. Try to find alternative.
May be once it will be a good choice but not now, unfortunately.
Sent from my LG-G2 using XDA Free mobile app
Rumored Android TV BOX... http://pulse.me/s/1jrW6M
God I hope that one IS true and GREAT!
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I was 100% happy with my ouya, with stock OS, and then even better with CM11. performance was never a problem.
really the only reason I went for firetv was that I watch prime video A LOT. and between flash-plugin + pick-your-favorite-browser being way-EOL and a bit buggy, and the fact that it took literally 6-8 clicks/actions to go to the next episode of a show, vs 1 (or at most 2) clicks/actions on firetv (yeah first-world problems...)
ouya sales on amazon for $60 would still be worth it (esp they want like 50 bucks for just an extra controller) but at the 100 point might as well firetv or something else.
but honestly it all comes down to what do you want to do with it. oh wait I don't have to re-ramble all this...
http://www.xbmchub.com/forums/threads/21722-Fire-TV-vs-Ouya?p=185275&viewfull=1#post185275
Anyone who bought Amazon-anything devices and expect openness is definitely going the wrong path. Amazon has some great devices but it has a pretty strict walled garden environment (which, granted, is kind of pretty) where they are expected to stay. Amazon is somewhat similar if not worse than Apple in this regard.
Amazon's latest devices such as the Fire HDX and the Fire TV are amazing devices on their own right, but if you are not getting them because of what they can do out of the box but instead of what they 'should be able to do' and expect to hack/mod them, you are in for a disappointment. This is what differentiate them to Google's devices, where it can be a gamble whether a product can be 10x better or 10x worse in the few months following its release (see: Google TV vs. Chromecast).
With Amazon devices it's extremely simple. You go to the product page and look at what it's offering. If you're wowed by those, then get it, if you think that 'it has potential', then don't get it.
Newcron said:
Anyone who bought Amazon-anything devices and expect openness is definitely going the wrong path. Amazon has some great devices but it has a pretty strict walled garden environment (which, granted, is kind of pretty) where they are expected to stay. Amazon is somewhat similar if not worse than Apple in this regard.
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Yes and no - I bought this box because I wanted one device that did both amazon video and Netflix. Met expectations there.
But I also wanted to be able to use it as a front-end for music stored on my NAS. This is why I was never interested in Roku, might've been interested in the Apple product but don't remember it having Prime support, and kept using my Western Digital Live Plus for as long as I did - the access to files inside the walls is important to me.
By day 2, I had enabled ADB and sideloaded XBMC. Yes, I don't have root, but I have Amazon, Netflix and local files all in one place, which I like a lot.
From what I've seen, on the Fire tablets amazon doesn't block sideloaded apps, or I wouldn't have bought this device. It makes a decent HTPC device for my purposes, though, and is open enough for me. Of course I'd prefer root, but in this instance, not if having root broke the Amazon Video stuff.
My biggest complaint so far is that amazon doesn't give us a preference setting for how much bandwidth the box should allocate to itself. So I needed to do that with my firewall instead.
I'll be interested to see if Amazon makes Prime available for the rumored Google TV box. My guess is they will not. But if they do, and I'm within my return window when the device is fully announced...
I am a very early adopter of the Fire TV. One issue with set top boxes that really sticks in MY CRAW is how they can market a device for gaming then provide no storage to keep them? At its release this was suppose to be added to Fire TV and unless I'm missing something still no support?
Fire TV is not alone Android TV devices , Madcatz Mojo, have slots for expansion then provide a OS that does not support it? I just can't see the Logic!!!! You ask me to buy games? Where am I suppose to put them do a uninstall daily or weekly? You should not have to modify the device?
Am I the only one who is missing something here? Can anyone explain the thought process behind this? There has to be a reason I JUST DONT SEE IT?
My fire TV sits in the closet
I agree. Terrible device. Just send it to me.
artkrime said:
I agree. Terrible device. Just send it to me.
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:laugh: Please dont get me wrong I am not saying Fire TV is bad ! Just want the ability to store my games local?
wastate2014 said:
:laugh: Please dont get me wrong I am not saying Fire TV is bad ! Just want the ability to store my games local?
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I didn't buy 2 of these boxes for gaming. But, yes I think you have a VERY legitimate gripe. The only reason I bring it up is the other nite I was watching the news and saw people were suing Apple over the new iPhone.
I didn't follow-up on it & 'really only just thought about it when I read your post, but they're basically mad because Apple promises x amount of storage without making it clear that the OS takes up a significant amount. I don't have a iPhone but I'll bet the provider has some immovable bloatware as well. THEN their only solution for you is to upgrade for a substantial fee or pay for cloud storage.
I've pointed out it seems like a crime to have such little space to start then take another 30% or so away from the user. (Yes that's almost exactly how I put it) Now we may find out if it IS a crime.
But I bought this to root it and attach external storage. To be honest, even if it came with double the advertised 8gb, it still wouldn't make a difference to me.
The current FireTV is unrootable though. So there iż no way to extend storage. I am slowly thinking of moving to Nexus Player - it's at least open although it has an awful remote.
Magnesus said:
The current FireTV is unrootable though. So there iż no way to extend storage. I am slowly thinking of moving to Nexus Player - it's at least open although it has an awful remote.
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I would wait for Razer's $99.00 upcoming Forge TV MUCH nicer specs same price:good:. Still don't know if it will support storage?
I know most on this forum have no issues modding a device which I am all for. Should it not come standard without the need to mod? Amazon needs to step up to the plate!
Nexus has no wired network unless I'm wrong. At the price they are I also would like to argue over storage but for now I just made my box a 1 trick pony Xbmc and some streamed TV etc and use something else for the rest. I can't buy any games or videos there's no room for paid apps
I recently bought the Oddworld: Stranger game for my AFTV. While my system is rooted, I am not currently using the best method for external storage (4TB drive to be here today), so it would download the game, but then tell me I didn't have enough room to install it.
I ended up resetting my AFTV because I it ended up I needed like an extra 300mb to install the software. Really stupid on Amazon's part. They need to put in usb storage for unrooted peeps.
I guess in my case I am looking at this device without a Mod whatsoever. I am trying to understand Amazon spending Hugh $$$$ + on developing games to market on Fire TV where am I suppose to put them??? I just cant wrap my head around how this is good business sense? Really this is more me venting with frustration as calling Amazon support is useless on this matter heck half of them did not understand what I meant about external storage
Example: Bard Tale alone can be 1.8GB at that rate you are out of space within a few large games?
You do have a very valid point regarding storage. With the current unrootability of newer FTVs it sucks not having the storage expansion. That should be something built into the system. I was lucky to get a new FTV that was rootable after Christmas and now I have it all hooked up. I have probably over 100 games installed on an external WD My Passport with 320GB storage. I installed the Ouya Everywhere apks, with a modded launcher, the Google Play Store, and Nova Launcher. It took some tweaking, but most everything works awesomely. The FTV is a great little device with enough power to make it a usable gaming system. The lack of storage and now unrootability may be its downfall though. The average user is not going to even bother with rooting, let alone the mods needed to expand the storage. Amazon should rethink this for its FTV2.
wastate2014 said:
I guess in my case I am looking at this device without a Mod whatsoever. I am trying to understand Amazon spending Hugh $$$$ + on developing games to market on Fire TV where am I suppose to put them???
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Amazon recently released a nice game made by their studio - Tales From Deep Space - but it's only available on Fire Tablets, not on Fire TV. I don't know what they are thinking, really.
Check out this guide for moving app data/obb files to external storage (requires root): http://www.aftvnews.com/how-to-move-and-run-amazon-fire-tv-apps-from-an-external-usb-storage-drive/
This lets you have more than just one or two big games at a time.
just wondering, are any of those large games actually supported by the AFTV(as in downloaded directly from Amazon's limited Fire TV app store)? or are they ones that exist on other platforms(and not vetted to run on the AFTV) that you side loaded?
The big games (in terms of file size) I have from Amazon are all the GTA titles. I also installed KOTOR from Google Play.
tekweezle said:
just wondering, are any of those large games actually supported by the AFTV(as in downloaded directly from Amazon's limited Fire TV app store)? or are they ones that exist on other platforms(and not vetted to run on the AFTV) that you side loaded?
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Well, I got my 4TB drive that I hooked up to my aftv using the method that copies the /data folder over. Love it so far, but dang copying stuff from my computer to the aftv with that drive is slow. Thinking I should boot up a linux livecd, hook the usb HD to my computer and copy stuff over that way.
As for games, it depends. If I'm buying the game, i prefer an Amazon Fire TV version. Otherwise I'll try to located a pirated version of it (from a trusted uploader on torrent sites) to test out. And then generally I buy the paid version, but not always. Sort of hard to put money out for GTA SA when I've bought that game like 5 times for various systems so far. And still haven't finished it.
Anyways, Amazon was stupid to put only 8gb of ram in their system and needs to get rolling with usb storage support. While it's not necessarily a gaming machine, for android devices, it's actually a really nice gaming device.
Do you mean this method? http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/general/mounting-external-usb-to-data-t2889319
You all got me thinking about trying it, so I switched this evening. It seems like a better option because some games don't keep their bulk in the data/obb files so there's nothing for FileMount to move.
Mrreg said:
Do you mean this method? http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/general/mounting-external-usb-to-data-t2889319
You all got me thinking about trying it, so I switched this evening. It seems like a better option because some games don't keep their bulk in the data/obb files so there's nothing for FileMount to move.
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yes, did method 1, all the data. Got a fast drive, so only limitation is the usb speed. Seems to be okay so far. No complaints.
It is a joke what amazon did with the storage, they said 8bg but when you open the box you have 5.49 space and out of that you have only 4.85gb available to use.....what nonsense! They really didn't think AFTV was going to do well cuz they said gaming was just an added bonus for the AFTV but i suppose once they saw it was one of the hottest item selling on there site they decided add more games.
i use aftv just a media center to run xbmc, i am not prime member.
They are forcing auto updates on AFTV and the latest firmware are not root able as of today. At this point they have 4 options, either wait and see if user will pay for could storage or released a firmware updates which will allow user to use the external storage via USB or come out with AFTV2 with bigger hard drive or discontinue the AFTV.
I for one will not pay could storage or will pay for apps, why do i have to pay for the same app again if i already bought it on google play store, Amazon probably notice that user are not willing paying for the same apps 2x, which is why they offered that $220 free apps bundled during the holidays to keeps folks happy cuz most folks were probably going to return it cuz that $99 device will cost you more cuz u have to buy all the apps again.
Thank you
tekweezle said:
just wondering, are any of those large games actually supported by the AFTV(as in downloaded directly from Amazon's limited Fire TV app store)? or are they ones that exist on other platforms(and not vetted to run on the AFTV) that you side loaded?
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This is a very good point. I have not added any Mods to my Fire TV the only games come directly from Amazons Store. Little experiment: load all of your standard TV apps. Then go into the Amazon store and just see how many games (Amazon only) you can download and install? Many are rather large 500MB+? Then if you are not technical I would bet many would find it hard to dig down into settings to find how to uninstall? Yeah your games are in the cloud but the bandwidth to keep downloading these games is crazy? In addition I stream ALLOT about 1.2TB a month and I pay extra after 1 TB so every time I download it again its costing me money.
Mrreg said:
Check out this guide for moving app data/obb files to external storage (requires root): http://www.aftvnews.com/how-to-move-and-run-amazon-fire-tv-apps-from-an-external-usb-storage-drive/
This lets you have more than just one or two big games at a time.
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I think your missing the point New boxes are un rootable by software alone and even so Jo Public should not have that necessity to buy games on a "games console" 1 or 2 big games and your stuffed. D
As it stands it does not fullfill the promise.
How often with current trends would a hardware refresh be necessary on android streaming boxes . From a developers standpoint does this cause as many issues as it would on say a xbox or ps4? I see so many people reference that Fire TV is getting long in the tooth already? It seems to me that many of the set top boxes are outdated already at release to keep the cost down? In there current state can they really compete in the gaming arena with the likes of Microsoft or Sony? I am A laymen when it comes to development but would love to learn what a dev has to do to put a game on Fire TV or Google Play?
These days, most electronic devices are obsolete after a few months, but not to me. I use my electronics til they stop working or I get something new. I still have an original Apple TV that I use all the time. Do not ever let people tell you when you need to replace your device. If it works, use it. A good example of this is the Galaxy Note 4 on AT&T, I commented the other day that I never thought it would get root, cause it was already three months old and it had not happened yet, so everyday it does not happen is another day that someone is losing interest in hacking it, and that developers are always looking for the next big thing. Just me saying that got the thread closed, but its true. If the Fire TV 2 came out next week a lot of people would say our Fire TV was garbage even though it works just fine. If my Fire TV last five years then it will get used for five years, period. Don't let anyone ever tell you when your device is outdated, make that decision for yourself. Normal people would never be ready to buy a new car or home every six months, but when it comes to electronics, a lot of people wanna throw away their device every time the new thing comes out. Those people are lame as hell, and only want new phones, tablets etc, cause society tellls them its cool to have it. I am still using the first Galaxy Note and will continue to do so till it dies. I have replaced the screen and went through two batteries exploding, and its still works, so why upgade? These devices are for casual gaming, not hardcore gaming. Android boxes were never meant to compete with or replace gaming consoles. All the people that say that the Android boxes are taking over game consoles are unintelligent. Android boxes provide a different type of gaming experience then modern gaming consoles and til google decides to make an android gaming consoles they will never be able to compete with sony or microsoft. I also doubt google would ever turn Android into a big time gaming platform, but I do think google will release a gaming console in the future to compete with sony, microsoft and nintendo, just won't be an android console.
I'm actually with porkenheimer on this. I have good equipment but I've become sort of a hoarder of electronics. Lots of stuff is older than 8 years and whether it's an external hdd or an old laptop or even an iPod, I've had amazing luck fixing things and I DO find a purpose for it. I've used laptops from a decade ago as ubuntu servers, got xbmc running on some.
I actually benefitted from people discarding what they think is broken and/or obsolete.
As for aftv, I don't think the hardware is the reason development will slow down. It's more to do with Amazon's resistance to opening it up.
In fact, I have looked around, here & abroad and I've found some good possible replacements but not in the price range of aftv. The processor will be a tad less powerful with the same amount of ram or the processor and ram will be better but the price is over bloated. But for now, I don't think you'll find a faster experience for the price. Once it gets to the $200 range I'm thinking of building an htpc or investing the money elsewhere because I'm satisfied with what's happening on my TV.
Of course I think if cyanogenmod becomes a reality on aftv, the hardware will be put to better use. Fast is great but fire os, imho, is not a worthy os.
Thank you both I appreciate your words of wisdom. I agree its so easy to pile up old hardware. I don't know why the android media streamers have become such a point of interest. I currently own Fire TV, Ouya, Madcatz Mojo, Android TV ADT1, and in the end they all basically do the same thing So, yes maybe its time for me to stand back and say to myself "What exactly am I trying to do with these devices"? I do no I have been searching for that box that has all my streaming apps and games with extra power to spare? The closest I have come so far is a modified Madcatz Mojo which has HBO Go, Showtime, Starz, Encore, Netflix, Hulu, Etc. its far from perfect! I have been eyeing (though I need to Stop) the forthcoming Razer Forge or Snail Games Obox? I dont like how amazon has locked out root, and all the proprietor y parts of the OS. Eight gig of storage is a joke for anyone who likes games?
You developers out there when you release your code on a device does it have to be custom configured for each chipset you release it on? Say you upgraded fire TV to the Qualcomm 810 would each app require modification?
This could benefit many who buy a new fireTV/stick and want to root it. It's a bit long but read on---
First, a little background; I bought my first fireTVstick a few months ago - 5.2.1.1 was on it before I even saw the home screen. I looked into rooting, but found that the hardware soldering method was the only way.
As you know, the fireTV asks for wifi password prior to initial setup & updates itself before you can intervene. But after initial setup, Amazon home can launch without a wifi connection..like on someone else's network..
A friend gave me a stick that hadn't been used since mid2016.. I plugged it in at my house, and before connecting to my network, discovered it was running 5.1.5.0 - so immediately i hid updates and then tried to root with kingo, unsuccessfully. I tried and tried to think of a way to go up one version, to 5.2.1.0, without going all the way to 5.2.1.1--nothing..
Until I stumbled onto a post by sconnyuk about his discovery: by plugging into a laptop USB port for power and performing a factory reset.. the device reboots with low power "complaints" and allows you in without updating - Then, when you go to manually update - POOF: 5.2.1.0 is what you get, and you can root and downgrade etc. Brilliant.
From then until a week and a half ago, I assumed a device with old software was very hard to come by. The only way you would have a chance to root is IF a stick was purchased pre 5.2.1.1, IF it was then setup pre-5.2.1.1, and IF it had not been connected since 5.2.1.1 was pushed out to devices. That's a lot of IF's.
And naturally you would assume that new device = new software....If 5.2.1.1 has been out for months, all new devices should ship with that version by now...right?
But the devices all auto-update prior to initial setup, as soon as they are connected....so who knows what version was there, on the device, in the box, sitting on the store shelf?
The day the voice remote fire TV stick 2 shipped in the US (oct 21) I purchased a standard fire tv stick from a major US electronics store.
Out of pure curiosity, I plugged it into my laptop's USB port, just to see what would be there if the stick was unable to update.
5.0.5.1....from a firetvstick1 purchased NEW at the END of OCTOBER 2016.
I figured it was a fluke- checked someone else's, purchased in a different city, days later.
Also 5.0.5.1.
So I updated to 5.2.1.0, rooted, blocked updates, downgraded etc and have two brand new sticks running 5.0.5 with FireStarter instead of Amazon home.
My question is, has anybody else looked into this?
Is this a coincidence..is it something localized to my area? or is Amazon relying solely on auto updates and leaving old software on ALL fireTVsticks?
One step further -
- Can this same process be done on the fireTV?
-- If so, what version comes loaded on new fireTVs at this point in time?
---Can new ones potentially be rooted/downgraded as was done with these sticks?
And for that matter..
-What about the fireTVstick 2?
--New updates were pushed the day of release...but what version is on the device when it comes out of the box?
To anybody who buys a new stick/tv/stick2:
plug it in to laptop power and go check the version, pre-update. Then post your findings.
I am very curious how common/widespread of an occurrence this is, what versions are being found and when/where, and whether it also includes other fireTV models.
Stick 1/2
Got a stick 2 on Saturday, purely out of curiosity..5.2.2.0, and it updated itself to a newer 5.2.2.0
Also grabbed a new stick 1, like the ones I stumbled onto a couple of weeks ago, it also had 5.1.5.0 - sweet!
But how long will they continue to ship in a possibly-software-rootable-condition?
Anybody have info on what software version the gaming edition, firetv1 or firetv2 ships with?
I'd like to pick one up for myself IF it is rootable; however I don't particularly want to spend 3-4x the cost of the stick for a box that ultimately has less functionality..
Anybody? What version does the FireTV 2 ship with? Gaming edition?
Firetv2
5.2.1.1 straight out of the box..not sure if this is everywhere or just the one I got...device says it was last updated in August 2016...even though I just got it today
This leaves the FireTV 1 --- I'm going to assume that "refurbished" devices from Amazon will already have been updated - but what are the chances of finding a new in box 2014 model ftv with 5.1.5.0 or older?
Somebody?? Anybody??!
Millenials Guide to Tech, Firmware edition.
1. WOW! Found out something crazy, you all should learn about!
2. So I bought this on saturday, and I thought, and then I went there,,,
3. And then a buddy told me...
5. But then I read on the internet...
6. So I'm wondering...
7. What do you guys think?
8. HELP ME!!1!!
Ok - how about we do this for real?
1. Fire TV (/Stick) has to be online to first register it (set it up with a username/pwd), or you would not have access to the main interface, which basically is something you cant work without.
2. Best way to do this is to be fast, and unplug your wireless router, as soon as the login goes through and you see the main home page.
3. Using an underpowered usb connection can delay it, but it wont delay downloading the next new firmware. I guess if you really knew what you were doing, and could root the Stick (because this is not, or less applicable to Fire TV boxes?) always staying on underpowered usb (edit: Or can you? Because su has to be written to the system partition, and actually I don't know how the "do not update check" works (does it prevent stuff like dalvik cache being reinitialized...) - but for now I am guessing, that staying on underpowered USB might be a valid solution...), you could then delete the already downloaded firmware, effectively withou ever updating the firmware once. (Having stayed online long enough for the next firmware to be downloaded... - throttling your routers DL speed is a real solution independent of all this, If you know how to do that.)
4. Fire TV (/Stick) updates are incremental. This information already is in the adventure report in the OP, but to summarize, what that means is, that the devices (as of now) will update to the next firmware update in row, and only then to the next one (downloads the next update, installs it on reboot or promt, ...), and so on and so forth...
5. Fire TV (/Sticks) that come directly from Amazon have a higher chance to be on a newer firmware, because Amazon has a process to preload your account information on there, if you don't buy the device as a gift. So they already power up the device, before shipping it out to you. Which means, that they also can lift it to a more recent firmware without much hazzle. We can't look into this process - or when it changes and how (which means, that at least I don't know if you have a better chance of receiving an older firmware version one, if you order it as a gift for example (username doesnt get set up by Amazon) - but I actually doubt it...).
6. Which means, that your best bet to get a device that actually can be rooted, is actually to go into a box store that doesn't sell through those devices quickly and grab a boxed unit that has been sitting on shelves for months.
7- Which of course means that you have to forego, those GREAT DEALS (wow, so GOODZ) on Amazons refurb path or discount windows.
Now you could crowdsource this out to get more information, if you actually had a community of buyers that was interested in this, and at least somewhat tech savvy, but as with any Fire device, you don't have that. (Generally speaking).
Also - as for the incremental updates - it isn't set in stone, that it will always be this way. Amazon could flip a switch and change that serverside. Its not especially likely that they do (because it requires having someone in charge of the firmware team, that actually knows what they are doing), but it is something that could change eventually, even over night.
Wow
There's no need to be condescending because you don't like my wording.
I'm well aware of incremental updates and the low likelihood of purchasing a NiB device from a major retailer with potentially rootable firmware on it.
The fact that Amazon cranks out "factory refurbished" devices at a lower rate would be a red flag in and of itself; even without considering the fact that the device would have already been updated if it had been used enough (once) to create the need to "refurbish".
I stumbled onto something which one would think would be a highly unlikely find - multiple times - from a MASSIVE electronics retailer with hundreds of locations across the USA.
I wasn't talking about finding a device that fell behind a shelf 6 months ago; this was from 4 different locations of a store which can't keep Amazon devices in stock no matter how many or how frequently they order..
My posts after the OP were primarily just to bump the thread in search of a response (which, what do you know? It worked) - not begging for somebody to help me figure out why I can't root the refurbished fire stick I got from Amazon for half price.
I guarantee I'm not the only person who would be excited to discover that a new device had rootable firmware on it -
A fire tv 2 with 5.2.1.1 pre-loaded is what you would expect to find; having bought it from the same place I found 5.0.5.1-loaded sticks +/-6 months after the version began getting phased out, I thought maybe it could also be the case with the box.
The purpose of my original post was to ascertain whether or not this is a common or localized find..to "crowdsource" .in the one place one would EXPECT to find FireTV enthusiasts..
Pardon my enthusiasm.
Have a stab at it. Crowdsource away.
You are only up against a userbase that doesnt know the least bit about the device, buys their Fire TVs in high percentages from resellers on Amazon, ebay and the local used good portal, because they saw a "free HBO" and SPORTZ label on it, that got told for the better part of two years that root is not necessary - by a freaking product blogger who maybe single handedly killed this scene - syphoning out all information from this community to sell it against ads on his portal (but he contributed pictures)...
And even now most people cant decide if they'd rather have "eazy Amazon Alexa fullservice", or be able to own their devices - but "has hacker found a way so I can use Alexa in *insert country here*".
People don't know how to interface with the device, or even how to copy files, people are told, that they don't need to know anything other than how to sideload using ES File Explorer. And as long as most people have their piracy options - they don't care about the rest.
Thats the deal. When Amazon started to force people that wanted to use alternative launchers away from their upgrade path - product bloggers celebrated it, because it would make stuff, so much more eazy.
Good luck getting the numbers. I have yet to get the impression that anyone (but me and a few others, but I can only buy so many Fire TV 2s in my lifetime...) actually care.
The broader lesson here is - that no one who cares about root rights, buys FIre TVs anymore. And rightfully so. There was so much wrong information circulating, structurally - because some people cared more about establishing their own dependencies, being on the hunt for "great dealz" and buying their way around having to learn basics - that there simply never was a culture of ownership (caring about root rights) around this product.
People updated root away, because product blogger told them, new firmware had great new feature.
Also - Amazon in the backend - now is set up very well to make the windows where devices are rootable very, very short. They don't even provide you with a prompt anymore - they just update away. They update before shipping, they force you having to be online to activate the device...
Those are structural issues. If you don't see them, having worked in the industy for several years, look again.
Back of the shelf boxed units still would be the best bet for people willing to take a chance - and word of mouth that "one guy got an older firmware on a refurbished stick, sold by Amazon" is just that. Word of mouth.
In the meantime you can wait for a new rooting method, and don't care, that amazon restricted apps from reading logs via adb and put in all kinds of non standard android features like "great blacklist, so eazy", and there is still no full conversion rom for this thing, because navigating via a remote is only slowly becoming part of android as an OS.
Its a pitty that it turned out this way - because for a short window - both the Fire TV Stick and the Fire TV2 where the best value for money in this sector you could buy (raspberry pie still has less "power" than a AFTV2) - but you had too many interests only "faking" that they would act in favor of a homebrew community - too many users that only cared about solving problems that came up as a result of them not understanding what they bought on shady channels - looking for service, to many people too willing to excuse Amazon of wrongdoing, before even all the facts came out...
The truth is, that this is a dead category.
Give the raspberry pie two more years, and understand that if you care about openness and doing stuff the manufacturer hasnt set up for you - open hardware will be more and more your only opportunity.
Not so much because devices become harder and harder to hack open (which is also an increasing issue) - but because you cant set up a community thats set on "demanding enduser service", paying resellers to cut corners as far as them learning to set up stuff, and listening to product bloggers that provide them with tutorials stolen from here ("But they have added pictures!!"), as long as it is convenient for them, but then help mask the fact, when and how amazon splits this community or moves against our interests, because they benefit more - when they can make their readers entirely dependent on Amazon - and look, its so easy....
Try to get your numbers in this environment. I watch.
harlekinwashere said:
Have a stab at it. Crowdsource away.
You are only up against a userbase that doesnt know the least bit about the device, buys their Fire TVs in high percentages from resellers on Amazon, ebay and the local used good portal, because they saw a "free HBO" and SPORTZ label on it, that got told for the better part of two years that root is not necessary - by a freaking product blogger who maybe single handedly killed this scene - syphoning out all information from this community to sell it against ads on his portal (but he contributed pictures)...
And even now most people cant decide if they'd rather have "eazy Amazon Alexa fullservice", or be able to own their devices - but "has hacker found a way so I can use Alexa in *insert country here*".
People don't know how to interface with the device, or even how to copy files, people are told, that they don't need to know anything other than how to sideload using ES File Explorer. And as long as most people have their piracy options - they don't care about the rest.
Thats the deal. When Amazon started to force people that wanted to use alternative launchers away from their upgrade path - product bloggers celebrated it, because it would make stuff, so much more eazy.
Good luck getting the numbers. I have yet to get the impression that anyone (but me and a few others, but I can only buy so many Fire TV 2s in my lifetime...) actually care.
The broader lesson here is - that no one who cares about root rights, buys FIre TVs anymore. And rightfully so. There was so much wrong information circulating, structurally - because some people cared more about establishing their own dependencies, being on the hunt for "great dealz" and buying their way around having to learn basics - that there simply never was a culture of ownership (caring about root rights) around this product.
People updated root away, because product blogger told them, new firmware had great new feature.
Also - Amazon in the backend - now is set up very well to make the windows where devices are rootable very, very short. They don't even provide you with a prompt anymore - they just update away. They update before shipping, they force you having to be online to activate the device...
Those are structural issues. If you don't see them, having worked in the industy for several years, look again.
Back of the shelf boxed units still would be the best bet for people willing to take a chance - and word of mouth that "one guy got an older firmware on a refurbished stick, sold by Amazon" is just that. Word of mouth.
In the meantime you can wait for a new rooting method, and don't care, that amazon restricted apps from reading logs via adb and put in all kinds of non standard android features like "great blacklist, so eazy", and there is still no full conversion rom for this thing, because navigating via a remote is only slowly becoming part of android as an OS.
Its a pitty that it turned out this way - because for a short window - both the Fire TV Stick and the Fire TV2 where the best value for money in this sector you could buy (raspberry pie still has less "power" than a AFTV2) - but you had too many interests only "faking" that they would act in favor of a homebrew community - too many users that only cared about solving problems that came up as a result of them not understanding what they bought on shady channels - looking for service, to many people too willing to excuse Amazon of wrongdoing, before even all the facts came out...
The truth is, that this is a dead category.
Give the raspberry pie two more years, and understand that if you care about openness and doing stuff the manufacturer hasnt set up for you - open hardware will be more and more your only opportunity.
Not so much because devices become harder and harder to hack open (which is also an increasing issue) - but because you cant set up a community thats set on "demanding enduser service", paying resellers to cut corners as far as them learning to set up stuff, and listening to product bloggers that provide them with tutorials stolen from here ("But they have added pictures!!"), as long as it is convenient for them, but then help mask the fact, when and how amazon splits this community or moves against our interests, because they benefit more - when they can make their readers entirely dependent on Amazon - and look, its so easy....
Try to get your numbers in this environment. I watch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough... I don't have the funds to test the waters on the spread of still-rootable FTVs either. Matter of fact, I returned the one I bought, the day after I posted the bit about it being unrootable.
Dead category or not, I still enjoy screwing around with them and I know others out there (in here, in this forum) do too..
The problem is, as you said, it's a device that sells out not because of the people who populate these threads, who have both (hopefully) the interest and ability to investigate, understand, and modify, the ins-and-outs of the things they buy...but because of the people who buy the devices up 10 at a time and run an automated process to sideload kodi with outdated wizards, so they can make $15 a pop..
I think the back of the shelf copy is a thing of the past, at least in my area..the number of retailers is a small one, only a few places carry them - they get a whole bunch in, then sell out in a day or two..and nobody has any for weeks..
I don't know if anybody still stocks ftv1's but I am still curious what remains floating around in circulation...
The search continues...