Develop Bugs

WP7, The Price to Pay

A follow up to a previous post of mine that seen to have not attracted anyone. Regardless of the visibility of posts, I can say that I at least voiced my opinion.Now that we all know that none of the Windows mobile devices currently in circulation will be officially supported by the new WP7 platform, we can all assume hat Microsoft is taking the responsibility to be liable for malfunctions and irregularities that might occur (we know it happens).It is a hard thing to defend when the competition is making it affordable but Microsoft has to be different in that aspect. Yes failure cannot be in the plans but it happens. The examples are out there (the manufactures want to have their name known but sometime not all hardware give the same result).Let’s face it the price of the phones do not sound as friendly as the platform model advertises. For a day-to-day use, a flip phone and a laptop could still be cheaper.

What does this rambling mean exactly? You are asking them to make the phone cheaper? I'm sure it will be priced comparably to Android and iPhone handsets. If you would rather lug around a flip-phone and laptop--go ahead, no-one is forcing you to get a new smartphone.

The licensing fee for WP7 is what, $15? That is the only part of the cost that MS is responsible for. The rest of the cost of the phone is entirely based on manufacturer and carrier subsidy. If you have an issue with the cost of the phones, you should talk to the manufacturer/carrier, not blame MS for their cost structure.

Well, MS is requring all phones to be at least 1 ghz. Im not sure how much that would hike up the price, but Im guessing it shouldn't be too expensive. When I bought my HTC Touch Pro two years ago, I got it for $250, but now I see android phones with 1ghz processors and other good stuff for $150 (subsidized through carrier). so I can't see WP7 costing more than $250 for a top of the line phone (possibly like HD 7).

tricsio said:
A follow up to a previous post of mine that seen to have not attracted anyone. Regardless of the visibility of posts, I can say that I at least voiced my opinion.Now that we all know that none of the Windows mobile devices currently in circulation will be officially supported by the new WP7 platform, we can all assume hat Microsoft is taking the responsibility to be liable for malfunctions and irregularities that might occur (we know it happens).It is a hard thing to defend when the competition is making it affordable but Microsoft has to be different in that aspect. Yes failure cannot be in the plans but it happens. The examples are out there (the manufactures want to have their name known but sometime not all hardware give the same result).Let’s face it the price of the phones do not sound as friendly as the platform model advertises. For a day-to-day use, a flip phone and a laptop could still be cheaper.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read your post but the English is hard to understand. Try making paragraphs or bullet points and making sure the sentences are sure. The simpler English the better, just make sure what points you are making and the order they are in. Then language won't be a barrier.

Microsoft/Nokia and the Chipotle Mexican Grill, it works!

Microsoft, remember when Xbox first came out. You pretty much guaranteed it would succeed by committing to spend whatever it took to. I remember a statement that said something to the extent of ' We have and will throw however many billions it will take to succeed '. If Microsoft wants to capture the 3 screens they have to make the same commitment to Windows Phone.
So Microsoft and Nokia you can learn something from Chipotle Mexican Grill that will work. Chipotle's marketing strategy is simple, and very effective. Basically each store gets about a certain amount to use on marketing each month say ~$6,000 for a store in a big city. They use ~90%+ on promoting the most effective form of advertising; word of mouth.
First time at Chipotle? Free meal!
Didn’t like your meal? Free meal this time and next time!
Forget your wallet? Ask, and receive a Free meal!
Your high school or college in the area having an event? 300 free meals!
Soldiers getting home? 1,000's of Free meals!
NOT TO MENTION, everyday there is an office in your Chipotle’s area getting around 20+ Free Meals!! All that equals 1,000's of people nationwide raving about Chipotle, everyday.
You can put up a billboard for a month for around ~$6,000 or you can give ~2,000 Burritos away to folks who are going to eat them in their office, at stop lights, in schools etc... Reminding you what you should spend your money on.
What I'd do:
Give away $125Mill of your marketing budget via product and spend $25 Mill on 5 minutes of add time for 100 million people to see during the Super Bowl telling everyone when/where to get theirs!! $20mill putting building size Nokia phone adds in as many major cities as possible to remind the A.D.D. Americans that what they saw during the Super Bowl was for real. $30mill in the pockets of the people who have the privlage of giving them away for free, errr. the people who when asked about the iPhone/Android see $bling$ and say try this Nokia for free. Come Q4 2012 Verizon and Sprint will be lining up!
Bottom line, when you believe in your product and you believe in your goals, then put your money where your mouth is. Especially when you have as much as Microsoft.
P.S>On (1/13/12) I went to T-Mobiles site. The home page was complete disappointment. No mention of Nokia or its Lumia or Windows Phone anywhere on the home page. On the side menu under “shop brands" Nokia is not listed. If you click on smart phones on the left, the top phone is the “featured “phone, the Lumia 710 for $49.99. Under it is the Samsung Exhibit 2 for FREE, and below that the Radar for $99 the next 6 phones listed are FREE android phones. The tab at the top of IE is even labeled "Android Smartphone Deals"
(1/15/12) Still the same on T-Mobiles site.
P.S.S> Full Discloser I do not work at or own any stock in Chipotle. I started researching them when I noticed they were popping up next door to every Taco Bell in town, right next door, daring all to try them! The first of many BOLD advertising strategies Chipotle uses. I'm not a developer, just a very happy WP7 user since Nov 8th 2010 Samsung Focus launch day.
P.S.S.S> Uggg.. Microsoft, you need to man up and drop what ever $ it takes to lock down the Super Bowl to be the only phone seen during the game. Let Nokia handle the creative side of things, you just open the wallet and have faith in your product and goals, both are worth every $$$$!!!

Very well written and dead on point... M/$ needs to listen to this to make WP succeed...

Excellent post and pretty detailed.

Well, you may not have an interest in Chipotle, but you sure made me want to eat there
I only have one question - isn't it different between a franchise and a B2B2C operation? Microsoft does not sell Windows Phone directly to the consumer, whereas they do sell the Xbox directly to the consumer. HTC does not really directly push Android. The carriers tend to be the ones (with participation I am sure) coming up with the marketing juice.
The carriers will market more when Windows Phone does better. I think Windows Phone will do better when it matures. It is difficult sinking millions of dollars into a product that will not stick just yet. I think Microsoft's most pressing issue is to increase development, not only marketing.

wow those are some great ideas. i hope someone important from MS reads this.

Personally, I think spending the money on bonuses for salespeople who sell lots of Windows Phones will be more effective than giving phones away for free. This will lead to good 'word of mouth' from the salesperson in the store
Interestingly enough, the fate of the phones may not be based on design and features, but on the essentially corrupt practices of the various phone stores where they will appear. The underpaid salespeople are now being offered spiffs, which I'm told are $25 bonuses for every Nokia Windows Phone sold. These are paid for by the manufacturer or Microsoft; I have no idea which. (Probably both.) Other vendors have been doing this all along, making it impossible to buy a Windows Phone. The rep would steer you away from buying the device simply to make money selling the other phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source

"But I want an iphone"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaxU0ut5tUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

magicsquid said:
Personally, I think spending the money on bonuses for salespeople who sell lots of Windows Phones will be more effective than giving phones away for free. This will lead to good 'word of mouth' from the salesperson in the store
Source
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And perhaps educate the salespeople there why they should encourage selling WP7 phones like pointing out the OS's good features like smooth GUI and excellent integration (and of course the great implementation of smart multitasking).
Then again, convincing these people to even try WP7 is gonna be the hard part since most of these salespeople have their heart (aka bias) set towards Android and iOS

ohgood said:
"But I want an iphone"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaxU0ut5tUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was pretty funny. But I liked this as well - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSAVEl_RU8o&feature=related
Back on topic. In any case, employees will attempt to sell whatever is most financially beneficial to them. So, they need to make sure the same incentives are offered.
But, to increase their own understanding of it I think this little experiment would help motivate them to sell Windows Phone 7.
I suggest that they give 1 parent or grand parent a phone with Windows Phone 7 and one with Android. They are going to have to support both, but not in person. They must do it over the phone. They can't just fix it. They must walk them through the steps. To get the parent or grand parent to go along, they will also be compensated with free cell service, provided the phone is used.
My mother is 69 years old. When a site like MapQuest.com changes and she needs to use it, I get a call.
After that experience, I think the salesperson will be convinced that Windows Phone 7 is way better for most users that are not highly technical. The ease of use, the fact that it just works and requires virtually no technical knowledge is the selling point.
I don't think it would be as clear cut for an iPhone verses a Windows Phone though. Other than my belief that seniors will like the larger tiles over the smaller icons. Both won't have many support issues.

JVH3 said:
That was pretty funny. But I liked this as well - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSAVEl_RU8o&feature=related
Back on topic. In any case, employees will attempt to sell whatever is most financially beneficial to them. So, they need to make sure the same incentives are offered.
But, to increase their own understanding of it I think this little experiment would help motivate them to sell Windows Phone 7.
I suggest that they give 1 parent or grand parent a phone with Windows Phone 7 and one with Android. They are going to have to support both, but not in person. They must do it over the phone. They can't just fix it. They must walk them through the steps. To get the parent or grand parent to go along, they will also be compensated with free cell service, provided the phone is used.
My mother is 69 years old. When a site like MapQuest.com changes and she needs to use it, I get a call.
After that experience, I think the salesperson will be convinced that Windows Phone 7 is way better for most users that are not highly technical. The ease of use, the fact that it just works and requires virtually no technical knowledge is the selling point.
I don't think it would be as clear cut for an iPhone verses a Windows Phone though. Other than my belief that seniors will like the larger tiles over the smaller icons. Both won't have many support issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lmfao @ the second video, "will the virus turn it into an iphone 4 ?" Man I almost woke up the dead laughing at that one. Awesomeness !
The suggestion of having to give support to a parent or grandparent is so wrong. You already know how time consuming and nerve racking that is, as do i . I've done the systematic hand holding from 1200 miles away, and no matter the desire and attention involved, it is always painful. (Desktops) linux, mac os, windows (worse here with version changes) is always the same. I can't imagine the level of pain involved with a tiny phone, big shakey fingers and poor vision/hearing.
Ouch !

Another one bites the dust :(

http://www.wpcentral.com/lg-focusing-android-no-new-windows-phone-planned

the commenters on after that article are basicly flaming LG for not being a quality company, and making boring phones. given todays phones are generally a flat, keyboardless, rectangular slab, i don't see how this is true compared to other manufacturers.
i expected to see sad comments from people that wanted more for the platform. i guess the general consensus is the platform is not related to the hardware, or sales, in any way ?
it also seems it would be a tougher market to sell in being just another android device than having something different to sell.
i have zero experience with LG products. don't think i've ever bought one, so i can't comment on quality or craftsmanship.
interesting stuff.

I've owned exactly 3 LG devices. The first was the Fathom with WM6.5, it was a decent device but the screen size was so disproportional as far as length vs. width that it was unusable in portrait mode. The second was the Android-based Ally, see my comments regarding the Fathom. The last was the Quantum. If not for the inability to change MMS carrier settings I'd still have this phone.
While it is not in WP7's best interest to have manufacturers bow out and claim (in a roundabout way) that it was the OS that caused lackluster sales, it probably benefits MS to have only solid, good performing phones showing off its software. The public is very fickle and reading about LG's demise within WP7 can create a false image which MS needs to stem yesterday. It's a shame that Dell has also bowed out because the DVP is one solid device. But as in the case of LG, Dell didn't exactly make an effort to market their products and left them to die an ignominious death. Goodbye and good riddance, or as I prefer to say, don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.

It was never more than a tentative toe in the water from LG in respect of Windows Phone. Surprise surprise, the manufacturer's lackluster commitment has resulted in a product line that is not viable for them.
If they fail to make distinctive Android products (or products that are distinctive but clearly not at all desirable to consumers, e.g. the Jill Sanders phone) then that product line will suffer the same fate.

They put in a half-assed effort and didn't get much from it. shocking.

http://wmpoweruser.com/lg-denies-st...offer-consumers-as-wide-a-choice-as-possible/
LG denies stepping out of Windows Phone game, wants to offer consumers “as wide a choice as possible”
just FYI guys

LG not exactly quiting Windows Phone
They look like they might comeback once winPhone 8 hits the market

Speculation: "maybe lg will do x after y hits the market in z-time."
Whatever, when a hardware maker drops a product, its over unless drones of people start throwing money at them. Or companies. Or governments. It isn't happening.

Official channel for feedback?

I'm a new Note 4 user, and generally like the phone. Like anything complex, though, there are a handful of things that I'd prefer to be different. I'll spare everyone from my litany of pet peeves, and just get to the question:
QUESTION: What is the best way to send feedback to Samsung regarding new features / fixes / etc. for the Note 4?
I went to their web site and found various technical/customer support options, but I'm looking for something more focused for enhancement requests. TIA.

I wouldn't waste the time, they are to concerned with jamming their sub par software and applications into their devices just to have their branding and signature on everything you see or interact with to concern them selves with anyone's logical or rational suggestions. Just look how Samsung operates in total perspective, they make TVs and monitors, that's their bread and butter, its where the majority of their most profitable pattens reside. To put this into the most transparent terms possible, they sell more TVs each year than there are phone subscribers with access to their devices in the entire global cellular phone market.
However for some reason to prove to them selves or whoever it is they think they are impressing or competing with, they chose to build garbage on top of googles already 1st class, free operating system and interface, they waste millions of dollars doing so and for some odd reason continue to think that they will one day create a better user experience than Google the company whos bread and butter is development and let's not forgot the company who designs every operating system for every phone they sell.
Until Samsung learns to stop wanting so much counterproductive attention on their products and realizes they would make more money hand over fist buy just selling their products as is with free standard android OS, they will continue to just shovel crap onto their mechanically awesome products rendering them to nothing but bright HD displays running ads that say how stupid they are.
In my personal opinion Samsung just looks stupid next to every other electronics company. And Google needs to grow a pair and say no android OS if you modify a single thing on it. I can't be the only person who sees this flawed business model am I? When's the last time you used an HP, Dell, or Gateway computer that had System modifications of any kind on Windows? You can go out on the limb and applaud HTC for their modifications because they are cell phone company that's all they do, but for Samsung a company that specializes in displays and makes no mobile hardware of their own worth noting, they somehow get the green light on damaging Android OS with their cut rate software, and continue to make the end user of their products disappointed. The worlds gone mad.

Whoa!
:laugh:

I can't say I entirely agree nor disagree with the long post above. I don't hate Samsung, nor am a fanboy of theirs. I just needed a large phone with a stylus, and my previous phone, while large and I LOVED it, didn't have a stylus which was highly needed. All I'm going to say is this:
Most of the time, a large corporation who sells many different devices within a market (ie, phones) wouldn't care about a single consumer's opinion. You are but a single-celled organization to them. They know you're there, but you aren't big enough to see as an individual. In addition, what changes you'd like to see or need- or whatever- most likely won't be what these corporations think their consumer market wants and will buy.
So in other words, if you send them feedback, all you'll get in response is a prewritten thank you letter saying (in summary), "Thanks, we appreciate the feedback and will keep it mind," (but wont).
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 (sm-910a) using Tapatalk

So, it sounds like Samsung doesn't have an email address, web form, forum, etc. for enhancement requests?
On the parallel topic of big evil companies, and with respect to the folks who have offered their opinions on that subject so far, my experience has been quite the opposite - I find that most successful companies do care what their users think about their products. I work in the software industry, and the products I use most on a day-to-day basis invariably offer some sort of channel for sending feedback to the developer. Every app on the Google Play store has a "Send email" link at the bottom of it's page - in addition to many companies monitoring and responding to written feedback in the ratings section. QuickBooks has a "Send Feedback Online" option under the help menu - and even offers different options for sending comments onenhancements, bugs, and doc. A large software company that I used to work for recently implemented a suggestions forum where users can vote on enhancements, actively prioritizes work on new releases based on this feedback, and publicizes the heck out of the results in conferences, doc, and webinars. Every year I see literally thousands of people give standing ovations at one of their conferences because the developer added better Excel integration, or trimmed two clicks from a common workflow. Perhaps the best example is Atlassian, whose products many in these forums no doubt use. They are laser-focused on the people who use their tools - developers - and have been extremely successful at growing into small and large companies alike by inspiring grass roots adoption.
The list goes on. From what I've seen, companies who listen to their users do well as a result.
That said, not every company is as open to feedback as the ones in the examples above. I've found it difficult to provide feedback to Microsoft, for instance, without being part of a beta program. That said, they have robust forums that are well-attended by their internal staff. I can't say for sure, but I have to assume that the most common squeaky wheels get at least I little grease in future releases.
I don't know Samsung very well, which is why I'm asking about feedback options. It would seem odd to me that they don't have some way for users to weigh in on their Android implementation. Collectively, we buy new phones too frequently and switch vendors too easily for them not to care what we think. I like my Samsung phone, but not because it's a Samsung - it just has the features that I want. They obviously do their research into what's likely to sell. I'm hoping that there's some channel where they're actively soliciting input for improvements.
Like spexwood said, I'm not going to waste my time sending a letter to the president of Samsung and get some generic form letter in return. I know that that doesn't work. I also don't expect that Samsung will care about my suggestions, per se, even if they do have some feedback form. But, I'm sure I'm not the only one who misses text messages because the [email protected]#$ing notification beep doesn't fire when a thread is already on the screen (for example), so if mine is one of 10K voices complaining of the same thing, it would behoove them to listen - or maybe next time I'll switch to that nice LG G3 that I almost bought instead of this Note 4.
Anyway, I'm still interested in practical options for sending OS-related feedback to Samsung. Otherwise, I can just rant about stuff xda-developers and hope that someone at Samsung is watching.

Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
mcmannion said:
[Samsung] obviously do their research into what's likely to sell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.

mcmannion said:
Please excuse me for quoting myself, but I stand corrected:
I just read an article on the S6 that says that it neither has a replaceable battery nor an SD card slot? When I went phone shopping last month, these were the only two requirements I had. I looked at phones from different manufacturers, with different OS, in different price ranges... the battery and card were the only thing they all had in common.
Maybe Samsung is right and I'm wrong on this one. People seem to flock to the iPhone because it has metal and glass on the outside, even with it's hardwired battery, fixed (and expensive) storage, small screen, lack of widgets, etc. If the S6 sells better than the S5 then... then... well I'll just be a monkey's uncle.
BTW, "premium" has gained the cherished center spot on my bull$hit bingo board. The only premium I see is the extra money you'll pay for a metal phone - which will probably be covered by a rubber case, anyway. I'll take a plastic phone with a swappable battery any day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I almost waited for the S6, then saw the final specs on it, yep not gonna happen no water Resistance no dust resistance and by the way the metal case most likely will have the same issue with scratches that the bezel on the note 4 has. not to mention an octocore 64bit processor that is hobbled at 32bit.
I still might go check it out once my local AT&T store gets them in stock. just to see

Thoughts about the divorce between Google and Huawei

So the United States decide to suspend business with China government and that decision makes Google to call an end of relationship with Huawei, no more Android Update and eventually no more apps and Google stuff

at least now they can provide bootloader unlock, community will cook roms for their devices.

santip32 said:
that decision makes Google to call an end of relationship with Huawei
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's suspended. Calm down. It's more likely that superbrain Trump makes a "Great Deal" with China and that's it. Just give some time to that moron. Once he does the math on his slide rule everything will be normal again. :fingers-crossed:

I know everyone is saying to relax and this will blow over, but I am seriously worried about this... Huawei is getting it's nuts squeezed from all sides, OS (I am really into the Google infrastructure, please don't argue that part), they are getting squeezed by parts manufacturers, Facebook, Whatsapp, and other major apps are dropping Huawei devices (yes, I know it's only new ones... now). They are talking about moving to a new OS and won't be able to get upgrades for existing devices, and security updates are a questionable after the August as well.
But this seriously has me concerned... I know I am in the minority, owning a higher-end Huawei device in the US but every time I turn around it seems to be another thing that is hitting Huawei... I have had a Google Pixel 3a XL in my cart, and just haven't been able to pull the trigger yet (it is $480 bucks, not chump change) but every day I keep thinking it's getting closer and closer to that.
Am I just being paranoid or is this some serious doom and gloom for US Huawei users, especially if deeply embedded into the Google world? This seems to be getting more and more serious daily, and even with Google fighting for Huawei, which in the eyes of tech media in the US (not mainstream media) seems to be a double edged sword that will likely lose out, I just don't see how this is going to end well.
BTW, I fully understand my phone will not just stop working... I am talking big picture here, not just at the end of August when the temporary exemption is removed.