Develop Bugs

Behavior of older members

During the past months I have noticed a tendency, or better: arrogance of older members. They sometimes treat "Juniors" like idiots or make unnecessary fun of them. This - even though it is really funny sometimes for the older guys - just makes it somehow unpleasant here.
We all habe been there, we all had to learn about our devices, so, what is the point? Juniors should be welcommed better than laught at - they might become the masters tomorrow!
- - -
Another tendency:
I sure know that almost anything in this forums has been discussed already in one thread or another. However, SENIORs, get real! If a new user asks a question, you should help him finding an answer / solution rather than just writing the "USE THE SEARCH" nonsense!
The integrated forum search is not the easiest on the market and it takes a while to get used to it. In addition, this forum is filled with thousands of topics - you sometimes can search and click through threads without finding anything in specific for hours! Sure, there is the attempt of having the WIKI but even this often does not cover it all! So, rather than posting the stupid "USE THE SEARCH", point the guy to the right topic / section / WIKI article - that would make more sense. LOL, just use the GOOGLE SEARCH in this forum and look for "Use the search" - amazing how many threads you find!
Don't get me wrong! I don't mean that we should animate JUNIORS to double-post or 'being lazy', but it is more helpful to guide him to the right topic if you want to help or - in case you just want to be a "smart-ass" - say nothing rather than "Use the search!"!
Well, just my opinion but it always looks a bit hostile to me if I see an old member posting "USE THE SEARCH" - in that aspect the old member is just not better than the junior, who might have been too lazy to perform a search in first place ...

this is my first post in 4 months.
titties.

etnies said:
this is my first post in 4 months.
titties.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, see, my post was good for something - at least you replied after 4 months of "shut up, be happy, stop whining"

I do agree with what youve said, but i dont think your going to change human nature.
Ive been guilty of giving slightly unhelpful comments to juniors, i suppose its just frustrating when someone is asking about something we find so simple.
Then again, we had to learn to...
I only discovered the search function not long ago, tis very helpful but i can see why its not used or noticed until youve been here for awhile.
TO be honest i hate the way this forum is set up.
You should all visit http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/
It has a lovely layout and is a pleasure to use. (Its an australian broadband forum)

true statement for the most part, but i find that noobs are exceited about joing the forum. they see all that they can do their new device and go nuts. instant gratification is today's society. this is the same on 99.9% of the forums out there. i know i was like that. i wanted my "modded" kaiser to do this and that, but i also didn't want a brick too. so at least i read and read and read some more. there's some users out there that don't want to read even the simple FAQ's and the WIKI. (i know i was one of those users too) i didn't read those threads until 2 weeks ago and i have been effin with my kaiser for 3 months
again titties? where?

Yeah, that WHIRLPOOL looks neat, however, I guess Igot too used to XDA-Developers.
I do believe that one of the main reasons is the amount of information collected in this forum during the years, and for sure the dayly grow of new devices and features on the market.
Maybe it would be an idea to rethink the XDA structure and set up 3 different forums, one for problems, one for software development and one for ROM Development and hacking ... but if I rethink it, well, I got used to it (almost) so, others will too if we help them rather than pointing them to the SEARCH ...

Junner2003 said:
Yeah, that WHIRLPOOL looks neat, however, I guess Igot too used to XDA-Developers.
I do believe that one of the main reasons is the amount of information collected in this forum during the years, and for sure the dayly grow of new devices and features on the market.
Maybe it would be an idea to rethink the XDA structure and set up 3 different forums, one for problems, one for software development and one for ROM Development and hacking ... but if I rethink it, well, I got used to it (almost) so, others will too if we help them rather than pointing them to the SEARCH ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of users are used to the layout and changing it would be a massive operation for the Site Admin. Also, we are limited by what V-Bulletin can do.
With regards to the behaviour of older members, I will not support or condone what they do, if they pass the line then the post should be reported to the moderators for further investigation.
Checkout this old post on Flaming: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=390475&highlight=Flame
And finally, there are some naked chicks in my signature (SFW) to check out.
Ta
Dave

Junner2003 said:
During the past months I have noticed a tendency, or better: arrogance of older members. They sometimes treat "Juniors" like idiots or make unnecessary fun of them. This - even though it is really funny sometimes for the older guys - just makes it somehow unpleasant here.
We all habe been there, we all had to learn about our devices, so, what is the point? Juniors should be welcommed better than laught at - they might become the masters tomorrow!
- - -
Another tendency:
I sure know that almost anything in this forums has been discussed already in one thread or another. However, SENIORs, get real! If a new user asks a question, you should help him finding an answer / solution rather than just writing the "USE THE SEARCH" nonsense!
The integrated forum search is not the easiest on the market and it takes a while to get used to it. In addition, this forum is filled with thousands of topics - you sometimes can search and click through threads without finding anything in specific for hours! Sure, there is the attempt of having the WIKI but even this often does not cover it all! So, rather than posting the stupid "USE THE SEARCH", point the guy to the right topic / section / WIKI article - that would make more sense. LOL, just use the GOOGLE SEARCH in this forum and look for "Use the search" - amazing how many threads you find!
Don't get me wrong! I don't mean that we should animate JUNIORS to double-post or 'being lazy', but it is more helpful to guide him to the right topic if you want to help or - in case you just want to be a "smart-ass" - say nothing rather than "Use the search!"!
Well, just my opinion but it always looks a bit hostile to me if I see an old member posting "USE THE SEARCH" - in that aspect the old member is just not better than the junior, who might have been too lazy to perform a search in first place ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, and the search engine of the forum is not the simpliest one

alijo said:
I agree, and the search engine of the forum is not the simpliest one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
V-Bulletin search leaves a lot to be desired, but the google one pastes over the cracks pretty well.
Ta
Dave

i can't remember if i have just once used v-bulletin engine and got a hit...it's a real crap masterpiece...
but in the other hand...google does the trick
and we all got "use the search" so what...big deal..
most of the time on the forum i deal with juniors and i tend to give a precise noob answer so i don't mind them and their questions at all....but isn't it natural like food chain...
it may be wrong but it is as it is and few of us can't help or improve it no matter how we try
and there are even worse members than juniors.....those seniors who gained status on off-topics i think there is no need for that but if you want i can provide 2-3 names right now

well ... i think the common rule of 'minimum requirement' applies everywhere.
By the name of xda-developers implies that this is the developers site. I can see that the moderators and other senior members here did do attempts to reduce someone creating new thread for just asking "noobs" question, but new members just dont want to spend their time to do reading, reading and reading.
There is nothing really harm to do reading then do searching ....
No offense, just my thought ....

i want to mention a moderator and his wall of shame crap in the diamond section...it was very rude and not friendly

It is unappropiate for any member to flame, if you don't like a post either use the
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report button or ignore the thread.
Also, If you find a response from a (senior)member offensive feel free to
!
The problem with noob questions is that if allowed it would drown our already massive forum, searching would become even worse.
Next to that: it's often wise to read first and to know what you are doing before acting, a lot of noobs have bricked their devices because they didn't read!
So "read the stickies/wiki" or "use the search" is often GOOD and SOUND advice!
But by no means we condone flaming!
BTW we don't like to be called "older members", please use the term age-challenged-members

May I also post a link to one of the best posts ever to be written at XDA.
LINK TO BEST POST EVER
Says all I ever need to say. Developers and hackers working together to better their devices. Not a place for "check what I can do with my phone".
Kyphur said it best with this quote
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Often the old behave like juniors

P1Tater said:
May I also post a link to one of the best posts ever to be written at XDA.
LINK TO BEST POST EVER
Says all I ever need to say. Developers and hackers working together to better their devices. Not a place for "check what I can do with my phone".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that Kyphur said it best with that post.
That is the post i most often love to quote. The issue is always that we have two types of users, those who just LOVE technology and want to learn, and those who treat it like it is tech support, or a paid service. These two sides are always at odds with each other. It is very easy to get frustrated with new users who aren't interested in even taking the time to ask good questions. I have never once put down someone for asking a sincere question, or refused to spend much of my own free time teaching a new user how to do something, IF they were willing to learn. The phrase "i don't have time to read all this" is an automatic call for me to do nothing to help that person. If you don't have time to read and learn, then you shouldn't be be modding your device. It's just too risky if you don't know what you are doing. As for the search function, it is a learning process, but honestly if you know how to search the internet, then you should be a quick study on searching the forum. I love that you can search just the thread, just the forum, or the whole site. After learning the site, i have found it completely functional, and rarely do i waste time looking for answers.
I will say that the "respect all the members" rule is sadly neglected by many users on this forum, regardless of their standing. I try to encourage everyone who sees disrespectful activity to write well thought out replies, via PM or if necessary in the thread. Use the report post button more frequently so that the mods can step in when necessary. Finally, please remember this is an international forum, filled with many non-native english speakers, who may not always grasp the full meaning of what everyone is saying. Be patient, and be clear in what you are saying, because we all say things we shouldn't have and we all have misread or been misunderstood. Let's try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Of course, don't forget to have fun too

P1Tater is spot on.
No more discussion needed...!

etnies said:
this is my first post in 4 months.
kittens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 months Your last post was from : 06-09-2008

I came here for the reported T!tt!3s.
No such luck.
I haven't seen really harsh "Use the Search Function" posts from Seniors.
I have seen some Touch Love Versions and have even seen some more "I will still answer your Question" posts by seniors.
In the end i think that most senior members are trying to encourage research.
As that is what the majority of people/developers/cooks are doing. Testing, changing Testing Changing and getting feedback from others testing and changing.
Adding a little advice or hint to the "Use The Search Function" , like over at this or that forum. Or "Try these Keywords", makes a post that can seem unfriendly (flat information has that weird quality to invoke an emotion behind it that does not exist), sound a bit more friendly.
But as soon as words as "Dumbass, idiot, Noob, grow up etc" are added to a Search referral post, it's pretty obvious that we should be reported, because that goes over the line.

Bottom line is that there will always be people who don't want to read a lot and that they would try to find an answer just by posting a question that already has been answered - human nature.
On the other hand there will be always seniors that sometimes would be harsh on noobs, again - human nature.
The balance: "use the search button" or "use google".
Well, I don't think it's harsh to say use search button because when I first came here I had to read more than 100 pages of Himalaya section and than another 100 in upgrading and Wiki. Thats a lot of reading but it helped a lot. Up to this day I never broke a device, I had more than 4 devices so I read a lot. But thats not it, reading through the posts I could see juniors posting questions that should not be posted and seniors posting answers that should not be postet. That made me think hard before I posted a question. Now I don't have a background in electronics or engineering but I made it just by reading.
So, I don't think that's harsh to say use the search button, anyway this is my two cents.
Cheers

As much as I love this site...

It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.

deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
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deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.

1second, just let me get this right..
a user for just 4 months.. and he posts this as his first opinion about XDA, thats not good, thats not good at all
deathcipris said:
pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, someone needs to actually do something about this.. (hint, no? ok...)
ill bring this to the attention of Admins today for you dude, i think that he will find this post very interesting...
i think this is @ rule 2.3 but not sure if it would fall under that or trolling, anyway a rep of the dev is destroyed by these sort of snide remarks/name calling comments so i think you have a very good bloody point.. "It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are!".....
(oh wait, i remember where.. they are out banning the devs and their hard work for rule 9..)
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn

raving_nanza said:
ps, 10 post rule is for bots, not noobs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr no it isnt. How do you work that out? lol
How in anyway would it stop or halt a bot?? And since when has bots been a issue specifically in dev forums??

@TheATHEiST oh well, i thought id read it somewhere.. must have been mistaken..
Rn

raving_nanza said:
...snip..
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought I did. But I can be more direct if you please.
Moderators need your help. Which is why I asked for people to report problems they say. That being said, we are always evaluating forums to see if we need to allot more moderator resources to a particular forum. Again, we evaluate reported posts that come in to see if a forum is "getting out of hand." So it behooves you again to report posts. Also, you can contact the Administrators or the Moderators. And sometimes we do see with our own forum browsing that a forum needs help, but we can't be everywhere. We are constantly trying to improve XDA, and we always recommend your feedback.

FEEDBACK:
Admins know about this thread to show them OPs post.
The only reason i have picked up on this is because we are already speaking to the Admins about these issues, well.. something in relation to this issue.
i think it would be wise to place Forum Specific mods in the Android Rom Development.. for ALL devices, its the only way to stop this "trolling".
This kind of behaviour is not acceptable, its already got out of hand, and i aint even a Mod to know that - so who evers role it is to be in the Android forums, aint doing a good one
Rn

JimmyMcGee said:
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App

doktornotor said:
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.

conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Yeah, thanks for proving my point. Not to mention - quite a couple of people have already confirmed on the original thread that it does discourage them pretty heavily - but of course sticking your head into the sand rocks here, so lets just lock the thread )
Once again:
- Go recruit more moderators (60/4,000,000 == absolute fail!)
- Once done - go and uncripple the report code, i.e. - go use the darned DB information you already have in some way. Yeah really, you already have the information who is your forum-specific moderator, so use it! Oh really, I do mean it, use it - do not force people to dig into some ultrastupid Google Docs document with moderators list (why on earth you cannot use HTML at least is a question in itself). I really do not have time for your "distinguish" games. Do make use of what you have to make the process efficient, not to make it suck like hell as you have done.
P.S. And - while looking @ my PM. We do NOT need some nonsensical Like/+1 buttons or any of that ridiculous social-networking bubble crap, really. Definitely not until you sort out the above and replace the search with something working that does not confuse people like hell and gives them relevant search results.

I agree, that having to PM a moderator several times a day is not ideal.
Personal Example: At least over in the EVO 4G development forums, you have several [Q] posted daily despite a sticky saying not to and update rules sticky saying not to do such. On top of that, you have the flaming, personal attacks, and other hostile users daily as well.
I know out of three mods, I've only ever received a response or acknowledge from one. And that one is the only one I've ever seen take action to a thread that gets reported by myself and others. I don't always expect a response, but it does add a bit of a personal connection.
It became so out of hand, that I just gave up and had my main developer account deleted and I moved my work else where.

Wow 60 mods. Hum a bit short there don't you think. A forum this size needs allot more than that, especially if the admin want it to be " the premiere android site'
sent from my bolt

I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.

Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant

Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt

I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz

abn75 said:
Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I know the themes and mods you speak of and yes, I agree, not 100% user friendly. Sitting back on your laurels and letting it happen isn't the answer to seeing XDA becoming more productive, though.
At least if you report, you've done 'all you can' to help. Not much, but something

TheATHEiST said:
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and it is this attitude by the older members that gives the forum the reputation as not user friendly. Both noobs and experts alike could do better in that regard.
conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta disagree. Minor issues are not being dealt with at all on the forums I visit and quickly get out of control. Lost 2 devs in the last week due to it.
the_scotsman said:
I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and controutman are 2 of the most active mods I've seen on xda. I don't know that I've even seen our general mod even post or address any issue. I think that might be the problem. Not to mention that only 1 mod in any forum means that 90% of the time, you have no mod.
juzz86 said:
Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely disagree. I don't think this forum has grown that rapidly. It has been around since winmo smartphones. The focus has just shifted.
Now general forums are full of custom ROM related questions specific to one ROM (and usually not listed in the title). Maybe there needs to be a subsection of the dev section for questions related to specific ROMs. I've always thought that the most appropriate place for ROM related questions is that ROM. It just seems like the "experts" don't want to help the "noobs" out anymore. Yes it gets tiring answering the same question over and over again, but berating every new member for not being able to search a huge forum correctly is not the answer.
RoboCuz said:
I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the problem. People that don't have your common sense will hit that 10 post limit so fast, it is not really a hinderance.
For instance:
"lol 10char" is such a common phrase these days, I think people are using ctrl "v" do paste it on every thread...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.

nrfitchett4 said:
...snip...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree here, and this is something we have to deal with. I started on this Forum Back with WM6, so I've seen the change. And it definitely has caused a new user management learning curve. We are learning as we are going. It's not perfect, but we are not just sitting around doing nothing.
I wonder if I can solicit hard answers.
How many mods should we have?
How do we manage that many mods to ensure similar reactions from Mods?
How do we manage mods managers?
How do we implement this without having a large bureaucracy that slows down response time even more?
These are some of the questions we are dealing with. Believe me, I don't want anyone to thing we are ignoring their concerns, in fact many of us mods have the same concerns, but there are no easy answers. We are working through them Anyone is free to PM me with their concerns.
Also, you, as members of the forum are integral to the success of this site, if you see no action from your assigned Mod, please, let us know.

I don't see what the big deal is.

There have been a few posts about different phones out there in this section. Some people are getting miffed because someone is talking about another phone and not the e4gt. Many threads are getting locked too. One post was about a guy that went to a store and played with a newly released phone. He was just sharing his findings and experience and testing results with the rest of us. Some people acted like they thought he was trying to get people to go to that phone and abandon the e4gt. I think that's nonsense. There are posts about the upcoming galaxy s3, speculations of the next iPhone, the eco 4g lte, and some people's opinions of the galaxy note. As far as I know, these posts haven't been locked yet. This is just people talking about phones. Its people trying to create conversations about phones. If those same posts were moved or posted in the phone section they are talking about, wouldn't that be like preaching to the choir? I'm not telling the mods how to do their jobs either, don't take it that way. I'm just saying some people are getting bent out of shape way to easy when somebody talks about something different in the general section. I know this is xda and not the USA so there isn't freedom of speech per se, but can we lighten up a little and not jump on someone's ass when they talk about something some others don't or god forbid a few people disagree because an all out flame war breaks out. I'm rambling again but I just wanted to speak my thoughts on this (if anyone cares to read it and give their input).

oscarthegrouch said:
There have been a few posts about different phones out there in this section. Some people are getting miffed because someone is talking about another phone and not the e4gt. Many threads are getting locked too. One post was about a guy that went to a store and played with a newly released phone. He was just sharing his findings and experience and testing results with the rest of us. Some people acted like they thought he was trying to get people to go to that phone and abandon the e4gt. I think that's nonsense. There are posts about the upcoming galaxy s3, speculations of the next iPhone, the eco 4g lte, and some people's opinions of the galaxy note. As far as I know, these posts haven't been locked yet. This is just people talking about phones. Its people trying to create conversations about phones. If those same posts were moved or posted in the phone section they are talking about, wouldn't that be like preaching to the choir? I'm not telling the mods how to do their jobs either, don't take it that way. I'm just saying some people are getting bent out of shape way to easy when somebody talks about something different in the general section. I know this is xda and not the USA so there isn't freedom of speech per se, but can we lighten up a little and not jump on someone's ass when they talk about something some others don't or god forbid a few people disagree because an all out flame war breaks out. I'm rambling again but I just wanted to speak my thoughts on this (if anyone cares to read it and give their input).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please be sure you recognize humor when it is used. My comments were made in jest as evidenced by the lol at the end.
Jay, the moderator, made the decision to close the thread which is his right.

oscarthegrouch said:
There have been a few posts about different phones out there in this section. Some people are getting miffed because someone is talking about another phone and not the e4gt. Many threads are getting locked too. One post was about a guy that went to a store and played with a newly released phone. He was just sharing his findings and experience and testing results with the rest of us. Some people acted like they thought he was trying to get people to go to that phone and abandon the e4gt. I think that's nonsense. There are posts about the upcoming galaxy s3, speculations of the next iPhone, the eco 4g lte, and some people's opinions of the galaxy note. As far as I know, these posts haven't been locked yet. This is just people talking about phones. Its people trying to create conversations about phones. If those same posts were moved or posted in the phone section they are talking about, wouldn't that be like preaching to the choir? I'm not telling the mods how to do their jobs either, don't take it that way. I'm just saying some people are getting bent out of shape way to easy when somebody talks about something different in the general section. I know this is xda and not the USA so there isn't freedom of speech per se, but can we lighten up a little and not jump on someone's ass when they talk about something some others don't or god forbid a few people disagree because an all out flame war breaks out. I'm rambling again but I just wanted to speak my thoughts on this (if anyone cares to read it and give their input).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tl;Dr
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Esoteric68 said:
Please be sure you recognize humor when it is used. My comments were made in jest as evidenced by the lol at the end.
Jay, the moderator, made the decision to close the thread which is his right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I seen that, not sure if the other caught on. I know I thought you were serious.
This is a general section though to talk to your fellow epic owners about things in general. correct me if I'm wrong.....

u just made me think of something that's also kinda been on my mind. have you noticed that most members start out there threads with " im so sorry if this has been posted or im in the wrong section (even if three in the correct one) and i apologize and mods feel free to delete or move and sorry to whoever may have posted this 68 pages back, cause i looked and searched and once again sorry for any inconvenience this thread may have caused". And then they proceed from there. i would love to see a chart of newer and slightly seasoned members heart BPM as there typing there post. Many people are scared ****less to post anything and this trend seems to to have gottin worse in the last half year and looks to keep going at its current pace. just wanted to get my feelings out about this, and this seemed like an ok thread to do it in. goodnight, veritas
sent from my BMF-D710

Nothing wrong with comparison threads - hell, it's nice to get some reviews of other handhelds to consider jumping to. Some stuff is blatently generic (service complaints, off topic, app issues) that needs to be posted elsewhere where it gets the proper exposure.

I, myself, even love most of these threads. The problem is if I see it is going to be a "troll thread" or nothing but a big e-penis thread, then yes I will shut it down. I skim through the threads and if I see any hint of hostility, then I'll go ahead and lock it down. I've always said that you can argue to your hearts content, but there is a way of doing it. This is a really tough time for us judging what should be in our section and what shouldn't. Papasmurf and I are doing the best we can. If you feel like we aren't doing a good enough job, or abusing our powers, then please let a senior mod or an administrator know and we will get it worked out.
Like I said, I enjoy reading all the comparisons myself, but it's our job to keep this place tidy and troll free. And honestly, those threads bring out a lot of fanboys and allows doors to be open for a hostile environment.
PS..... If you're Oscar, can I be the Cookie Monster?
---Jay--- From the AOKP powered E4GT

Well I for one love the job you are doing jay. Keep up the good work!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

oscarthegrouch said:
There have been a few posts about different phones out there in this section. Some people are getting miffed because someone is talking about another phone and not the e4gt. Many threads are getting locked too. One post was about a guy that went to a store and played with a newly released phone. He was just sharing his findings and experience and testing results with the rest of us. Some people acted like they thought he was trying to get people to go to that phone and abandon the e4gt. I think that's nonsense. There are posts about the upcoming galaxy s3, speculations of the next iPhone, the eco 4g lte, and some people's opinions of the galaxy note. As far as I know, these posts haven't been locked yet. This is just people talking about phones. Its people trying to create conversations about phones. If those same posts were moved or posted in the phone section they are talking about, wouldn't that be like preaching to the choir? I'm not telling the mods how to do their jobs either, don't take it that way. I'm just saying some people are getting bent out of shape way to easy when somebody talks about something different in the general section. I know this is xda and not the USA so there isn't freedom of speech per se, but can we lighten up a little and not jump on someone's ass when they talk about something some others don't or god forbid a few people disagree because an all out flame war breaks out. I'm rambling again but I just wanted to speak my thoughts on this (if anyone cares to read it and give their input).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no problem with you expressing yourself and think you have valid points but next time can you please do it with at least 2 paragraphs... My A.D.D. kicks in when I have to read too much at one time....
jayharper08 said:
I, myself, even love most of these threads. The problem is if I see it is going to be a "troll thread" or nothing but a big e-penis thread, then yes I will shut it down. I skim through the threads and if I see any hint of hostility, then I'll go ahead and lock it down. I've always said that you can argue to your hearts content, but there is a way of doing it. This is a really tough time for us judging what should be in our section and what shouldn't. Papasmurf and I are doing the best we can. If you feel like we aren't doing a good enough job, or abusing our powers, then please let a senior mod or an administrator know and we will get it worked out.
Like I said, I enjoy reading all the comparisons myself, but it's our job to keep this place tidy and troll free. And honestly, those threads bring out a lot of fanboys and allows doors to be open for a hostile environment.
PS..... If you're Oscar, can I be the Cookie Monster?
---Jay--- From the AOKP powered E4GT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey its your call and I have seen some threads shut down but given our past up in herrrre I can fully understand why...
@ veritasaequita - So many users duplicate threads and do not honestly do the proper searching they should so I understand when someone starts off like that and to me I actually can respect it more... It shows they at least tried

playya said:
@ veritasaequita - So many users duplicate threads and do not honestly do the proper searching they should so I understand when someone starts off like that and to me I actually can respect it more... It shows they at least tried
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can easily see why this is occurring on xda. I have been modding androids for about 2 years now, but coming from other sites, entry level modders will be easily intimidated by the plethora of information thrown at you in these forums.
Acronyms alone become a fairly steep learning curve.
The wikis, while helpful do contain quite a few outdated links. Many have links to updated information, but the original links in the wikis never get updated. The furious pace of development on this device is awesome, but keeping up with it, even in the wikis is a daunting task for anyone. Coming from the outside(Motorola Backflip modding community), I have been overwhelmed by the amount of choice for modding. Honestly, for noobs, its kinda hard to know what to search FOR, let alone knowing if the information you are looking at is the most current or accurate.
I am not trying to start a flame war here by any means. Once I get my bearings in the E4GT forums, I plan on helping update wikis and the like. But WOW! The backflip had maybe a dozen choices across the 20 websites I used to search. You have 20 choices on page 1 of 40! The modem/kernel combos alone have blown my mind, let alone all the custom mods and I like to think I've got a pretty good handle on tech stuff.
Sorry if I strayed off the original topic there a bit. Just felt it needed to be said. Playya's comment just kinda seemed the best way to get that out there.

playya said:
I have no problem with you expressing yourself and think you have valid points but next time can you please do it with at least 2 paragraphs... My A.D.D. kicks in when I have to read too much at one time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have it too, but I also ramble and go into too much detail.

@jay
I'm not knocking you at all. I've got no beef with any mods in this section. I can't say the same for another section I used to hang out in. That mod was a power tripping a hole that ran things in ways that many thought were counterproductive and very confusing because of lack of logical structure. He also pissed off and disrespected a couple of devs that were highly respected. Like saying Calkulin isn't a dev because he just tweaks stock roms and doesn't compile them and build them from the ground up. BS like that. He was the kind of guy that gave you the impression he looked down on everyone. As an example of somethings he did were these. He grouped a dev section together with one model phone that was on all the major carriers. To a newb or someone was careless, they were flashing the wrong roms on their phones. I don't know if any were bricked but that made a lot up people really mad. He didn't care. He would also move a post he thought didn't belong to a place like general in the main forum, not the phone section you were in. He also accused people of distributing warez when the definition of warez according to the faq, didn't apply to the situation.
Say for example, there's an app that one carrier puts on their phones but other carriers don't for the same model. If you pulled the apk out and posted it, then that was warez. If you downloaded a rom that had that app in it, then extracted it yourself, then that wasn't warez. The app was never a paid app either. It was bloatware. Whatever. I obviously have a lot of bottled up frustration. Sorry.

I have only one comment/question on this (and the plethora of other non-E4GT phone threads) why aren't they put into the Q&A section as usually they are questions seeking answers/opinions?
The general forum is the most trafficked so I suppose that's one reason people choose it but maybe there'd be less objection to the questions about swapping phones if the threads were put in Q&A leaving the general forum to stay focused on our phone.
Just a general question, nothing to get anyone's undies in a twist over.

Like jay was saying, I see people mouthing off, getting hostile and taking stupid comments from other people too seriously WAY too quickly and easily in some threads. Damn, I really have a problem with run on sentences! Lol

Is quoting the op necessary for most of you? Lol. Too much scrolling using xda app.
This thread could become so great but like the previous poster said. Just not possible to stay a good thread for long.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Why are Development threads run the way they are?

OK so here is a pressure relief thread... While many of you are becoming disenchanted with the way the development threads are running... Yes I am talking about the DEVELOPMENT THREADS! Please indicate the following
What do you think they are (development threads)?
How do you think they should be run?
Do you feel that Modding is not needed? If not/If so why?
What would you change if you could be top of this list for a day Please realize this list is very short..
It's simply used
for example
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Please do not make this personal, act like grown-ups and be constructive​

I think more, many more, mods are needed for each forum. It's difficult got one, or two or three, people to effectively "police" one forum. Last i checked, there were over/about 3 million users on xda. How many mods are there?
And people not using search.

mrhaley30705 said:
I think more, many more, mods are needed for each forum. It's difficult got one, or two or three, people to effectively "police" one forum. Last i checked, there were over/about 3 million users on xda. How many mods are there?
And people not using search.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
10 oh wait 9, Red5 is gone

Overall, there's only 9 mods for the whole site, or just in S3 forum?

mrhaley30705 said:
Overall, there's only 9 mods for the whole site, or just in S3 forum?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And those 9 are busy busy busy. I don't understand why people keep posting EVERYTHING thsy want in development threads

What ever happened to RED?

jasvncnt1 said:
What ever happened to RED?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Red has taken personal time. Family, health and work are keeping him very occupied

tomween1 said:
And those 9 are busy busy busy. I don't understand why people keep posting EVERYTHING thsy want in development threads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because they feel ENTITLED to do whatever they want to do. Because its a public forum. Its a new generation of users who don't quite understand just how important the developer title is in xda developers.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

tomween1 said:
Red has taken personal time. Family, health and work are keeping him very occupied
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks, Didnt know that. Hope all is well with him

brorex said:
Because they feel ENTITLED to do whatever they want to do. Because its a public forum. Its a new generation of users who don't quite understand just how important the developer title is in xda developers.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey man thanks for your 2 cents Can you please bring your disdain to WebOS and see how they feel about that! LOL

tomween1 said:
OK so here is a pressure relief thread... While many of you are becoming disenchanted with the way the development threads are running... Yes I am talking about the DEVELOPMENT THREADS! Please indicate the following
What do you think they are (development threads)?
How do you think they should be run?
Do you feel that Modding is not needed? If not/If so why?
What would you change if you could be top of this list for a day Please realize this list is very short..
It's simply used
for example
Please do not make this personal, act like grown-ups and be constructive​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think development threads should be a place to discuss development issues such as bugs, possible wish lists, explanation of why things work certain ways, etc. I think that Q&A's should be reserved for just commonly asked questions.
In a perfect world a dev thread would be a place where guys could joke and cut up and still get work done. The problem with that however is that we want people to read threads so they don't ask/re-ask "stupid or non-dev related" questions, yet sometimes there is so much joking around in a thread that you can go 3-4 pages no problem without reading a single thing relevant to the ROM. Why would someone new to the scene want to read and find a golden nugget of information if that requires wading through nonsense? You can say "use the search function!!!!?!?!?*" but let's be honest, if you don't search the right thing you won't find what you are looking for. If you don't know the correct name of your problem, you can't search for your problem, so when you ask questions guys say "Why don't you search" or "Why don't you read" and the answer is, because I'm new and can't read through all the bull in the thread.
I'm all for people having a good time but it's frustrating when you get home from work and you see there are 20 new pages in a thread and there could be a few important posts but to find them you have to read through nonsense.
Just my 2 cents. I love XDA and regardless how it's run the community is great, the Devs are top notch both programming wise and character wise in my experience, but I do get frustrated when I'm tweaking a $600 phone and I can't find necessary information because 20 people keep replying to the same old questions with "Go search you noob-loser!"

Probably a very dumb newbie question, but - I haven't been able to determine/discern the distinction between the Android Development and the Original Android Development threads. Could someone please clue me in?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

The android development thread is usually devoted to people who are hacking or tweaking the stock rom that came with the phone. The original android development thread is a place where people discuss roms being developed based off of the original android source code AOSP/AOKP (such as cm9 or cm10 or putting out custom kernels.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

planetjeff said:
Probably a very dumb newbie question, but - I haven't been able to determine/discern the distinction between the Android Development and the Original Android Development threads. Could someone please clue me in?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In very general terms, Original Android Development is for 'Original' development. New roms, kernels, mods and such. Android Development could simply be a port of an existing rom or kernel to run on our device. It very probably has been, or is being used elsewhere and someone has made some changes to allow it to be used on our device.
Hope this helps some. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1762948
---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------
brorex said:
Because they feel ENTITLED to do whatever they want to do. Because its a public forum. Its a new generation of users who don't quite understand just how important the developer title is in xda developers.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually a really good point. 2, even 1 year ago there were a lot less people using android phones, even less hacking and modding. And now, especially with the S3 (and others), there has been a flood of new 'techies' that want the fastest, coolest phone on the planet. It probably boils down to an appreciation (or lack there of) of what it takes to make all that happen. Many are new to XDA and, just like this generation is prone to do, want to skip right to the end of the book, without reading the story first. I'm sorry, maybe I should say, "fast forward to the end of the movie, without watching the plot". Maybe we should have them run thru a XDA tutorial first before they're allowed posting priviledges or something. :silly: Just my 2 cents...

As a developer (not on xda) I fully understand the time and work the great developers put in, and as an android user I am very gracious. Not sure if its just me but my experience dealing with bug reporting and asking for help in development threads has not been easy. Mainly if the issue has already been addressed you always get flamed for not searching before you post. Its like some developers would rather argue for 3 pages to satisfy their ego than just answer a simple question.
Still apart from dealing with egos, its well worth it for the service they provide.

hey guys that have posted here, send the disgruntled user here. I know most of you that have posted so far and we tend to all be like minded. I really want to hear from the folks that aren't in the same frame of mind. I am interested in how they tick. What are their thoughts on this matter.

Tomween1,
Here is my issue. I have been an xda member for a few years now and I have never seen as much trolling and s#!t talking as I have seen here in the s3 forum. When I joined people here were helpful and every time someone helped me with a problem I intern helped the next person with a similar problem. But everything has gone down the drain over the last year or so.
now here are my concerns...
First.... The addition of a second development thread for just cm and AOKP is pointless in my opinion.
Second... If you have a ROM running on your phone... ie... Cyanogenmod CM10.... Then all discussion of bugs and flaws and features specific to that rom should be discussed in that thread. The search tool should be used before a new post and as much information should be provided to help dev duplicate and resolve problem
Third.... If the Rom is not installed.... You don't know how to install it.... Or you wonder how the battery life is or how one rom is compared to the other.... Then go to general or q&a
Finally.... Show some f#@*in respect. It doesn't matter if you are a dev or not.... You chose to develop for a phone.... You chose to post it on xda... You agreed to abide by xda rules which means show members respect.... Even if they are a noob who asked a dumb question in the wrong forums.
Moderators shouldn't be deleting as many posts as you guys are.... It's borderline pointless and it's censorship.
If you made a ROM be respectful to your fans... And if you don't want to answer questions then let other members answer people...
Good examples of threads were the devs are respectful and mods have to work less are Caulkins threads cyanogens threads... Worst example of needless hostility and over moderating is Tasks AOKP thread
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 PM ----------
Also a more useful approach would be to have all ROMS & KERNELS in one development thread and all mods / hacks / feature ports in a separate dev thread...

I think one of the main reasons devs get frustrated and its been mentioned many times, dev forums are not the place to learn or expect handouts. The handout is givin with the ROM. Now its up to the end user to learn how to use it, search out problems and try to solve things themselves. Everyone is worried about thier new 600 dollar toy but not many noobs take the time to learn what they are actually doin to their phone. The dev forums are not the place to learn. The dev forums are a place to get the latest greatest and reply with "heres my problem, here's my log cat" after searching for an answer. It seems pretty simple to me. Although not a dev it would piss me off also to clearly state in an op that your phone won't do the dishes, then have 6 or 8 people say that you ruined their phone cause they threw it in a sink of water. As far as letting other people answer the questions, that's the reason for the q and a threads, to let the community help itself. No one should be posting in the dev forum without a logcat.
My two cents, take it or leave it doesn't matter.
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sent from my iPhone killer using tapatalk 2

jethro650 said:
I think one of the main reasons devs get frustrated and its been mentioned many times, dev forums are not the place to learn or expect handouts. The handout is givin with the ROM. Now its up to the end user to learn how to use it, search out problems and try to solve things themselves. Everyone is worried about thier new 600 dollar toy but not many noobs take the time to learn what they are actually doin to their phone. The dev forums are not the place to learn. The dev forums are a place to get the latest greatest and reply with "heres my problem, here's my log cat" after searching for an answer. It seems pretty simple to me. Although not a dev it would piss me off also to clearly state in an op that your phone won't do the dishes, then have 6 or 8 people say that you ruined their phone cause they threw it in a sink of water. As far as letting other people answer the questions, that's the reason for the q and a threads, to let the community help itself. No one should be posting in the dev forum without a logcat.
My two cents, take it or leave it doesn't matter.
.
sent from my iPhone killer using tapatalk 2
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That is the problem - people who are posting here are being told to go F*%$ off instead of being asked to provide a logcat or provide details. Also alot of Devs in s3 forums are not providing complete bug lists in the OP and if they did they are not keeping it updated so when a noob or someone new to the rom comes to check they cant find the info and ask dumb questions.

I've been in the XDA community for 6 years now, and I've seen a TON of changes here. What I now see the moderators trying to do is add a little bit of order to the madness. The dev threads were specifically designed(and ALWAYS have been) for Development and development issues only, not even about wish lists. When a developer has to pour through pages and pages of "I wish the ROM had this, or how do I install this ROM, or why does my (fill in the blank), not work". It get very frustrating to find posts from people, who are posting real issues that affect the actual development of the ROM.
It is suppose to be the place that the guy/gals who are putting their time into these ROM's that we get for free, get the feedback from us, the endusers, to actually make the ROM's better. When we clutter the thread with jibberish, we're making it harder for them to get to those real issues, and are disrespecting them and the time they invest, and in the end, we're only shooting ourselves in the foot
While I was on the AT&T Captivate, we had a similar structure of the Dev thread, and a Q&A thread for most of the available ROM's, some of the dev's didn't seem to mind answering all of those questions, but the Q&A still existed, and they all seemed to be very successful. They were very lax and the topics could got entirely off topic, they seemed to be more of the "social hangout" type of thing. Take a look: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=746
With the incredible popularity of the SGSIII in all of the variants, there are bound to be tons's of ROM's that will crop up for JB. I believe it's that much more important to try to create some sort of structure for the 4Million + XDA mambers

[DISCUSSION] XDA vs other Android forums

FIRST OF ALL, THIS THREAD IS IN NO WAY INTENDED TO BE NEGATIVE TOWARDS XDA!
When I get interested in something and look for a forum on the subject, I look for the BEST forum on the subject. When I became interested in Android phones and looked for a forum, in became obvious to me VERY quickly that XDA was THE superior forum by far; but what 'superior' means is, I think, what I would like this discussion to be about...
It was quickly obvious to me that XDA was the forum where the developers were. This, in itself, made XDA the superior forum, obviously it seemed to me. Having access to developers is certainly a priceless ability to have. Also, AFIK, new developments tend to get posted on XDA before other Android forums (though, I must admit, while I am familiar with some other Android forums, I very rarely visit them, other that by occasional Google search results, and even then, I try to seek out XDA results).
I would certainly NOT say this is the best Android forum for new users who are unwilling to search or use their brain, however new users, even if N00b's, will do fine if they respect the standard protocols.
HOWEVER... I have recently begun to wonder... is this the best Android forum to get help with your questions? If you want to question a dev on XDA about one of his/her apps, then probably yes, but what about more GENERAL questions? Is XDA really more oriented towards higher issues, such as app development?
I personally enjoy helping people with their questions, but I have found difficulty with getting responses to my questions sometimes. I feel certain that there are users on XDA that would KNOW the answer to my question, but of course, I am well aware they have better things to do with their time than answer my questions (which means no disrespect) which the likely never even see.
As I say, I have visited the other Android forums very little. I am wondering if those forums are a better place for these general types of questions? So, I welcome a discussion on anyone's opinion on other Android forums vs XDA...

I moved this here. It is probably a better place for this type of discussion

mark manning said:
I moved this here. It is probably a better place for this type of discussion
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I agree, thanks, but I don't want to create any friction between mods (see my PM).

I will not bite you, however you respond!
Well Mark, I thought it was a very valid and interesting topic for discussion, and since you moved it here I think you agreed with me, but unfortunately, we seem to be the only two people who feel that way?
Are there users here who feel that there are OTHER users here who would be better served on OTHER Android forums? I am in no way attempting to reduce the XDA user base, but as I said, I think this is obviously the ELITE forum (which DOES NOT necessarily mean exclusionary), but to my mind at least, many users here who likely have their minds on higher things than answering relatively simple questions, which might be more welcome on OTHER Android forums. OR... I could be wrong... as I mentioned, I have spent little time on other Android forums, but I have noticed that certain Google searches I make return top results from forums OTHER than XDA (though GENERALLY I find XDA gets the top results).
SO... anyone care to express any opinions on this, pro or con? Now is your change to make your opinion known.
(OH... and if rating my own thread 5 stars is bad form... tough titty said the kitty...)

rsngfrce said:
Well Mark, I thought it was a very valid and interesting topic for discussion, and since you moved it here I think you agreed with me, but unfortunately, we seem to be the only two people who feel that way?
Are there users here who feel that there are OTHER users here who would be better served on OTHER Android forums? I am in no way attempting to reduce the XDA user base, but as I said, I think this is obviously the ELITE forum (which DOES NOT necessarily mean exclusionary), but to my mind at least, many users here who likely have their minds on higher things than answering relatively simple questions, which might be more welcome on OTHER Android forums. OR... I could be wrong... as I mentioned, I have spent little time on other Android forums, but I have noticed that certain Google searches I make return top results from forums OTHER than XDA (though GENERALLY I find XDA gets the top results).
SO... anyone care to express any opinions on this, pro or con? Now is your change to make your opinion known.
(OH... and if rating my own thread 5 stars is bad form... tough titty said the kitty...)
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Well I'm new here myself and I've found it's relatively easy to find information here. The forums seems pretty active. It's a lot better than Bitcointalk that's for sure.. I haven't seen a bigger cesspool of trolls of fud anywhere on the new lol

As I've been here for about 3 and a half years (roughly a year as just a visitor) and am a staff member here, I'm clearly leaning more towards XDA being the best Android forum.
Before I found my way to XDA, I had signed up to a fair few other Android forums (being a mixture of general Android and some more development focused) and for some reason I just didn't stick around. Some of the forums were simply a mess but others weren't too bad. Most of the time, I didn't become active on those forums purely because it didn't feel right, I guess.
In regards to general questions, there's definitely a place for them here. Obviously we are more focused on development than general Android questions but we'll still support those anyway.
If you look through any of the device forums you'll notice that the majority of questions are normally about rooting/unlocking the boot loader of that particular device but there are still a lot of standard questions being asked as well.
With you not getting answers to your questions, it's more likely due to not being in an active enough forum or not being seen by the right people rather than people not answering purely because it's not as technical as other questions might be.

KidCarter93 said:
As I've been here for about 3 and a half years (roughly a year as just a visitor) and am a staff member here, I'm clearly leaning more towards XDA being the best Android forum.
Before I found my way to XDA, I had signed up to a fair few other Android forums (being a mixture of general Android and some more development focused) and for some reason I just didn't stick around. Some of the forums were simply a mess but others weren't too bad. Most of the time, I didn't become active on those forums purely because it didn't feel right, I guess.
In regards to general questions, there's definitely a place for them here. Obviously we are more focused on development than general Android questions but we'll still support those anyway.
If you look through any of the device forums you'll notice that the majority of questions are normally about rooting/unlocking the boot loader of that particular device but there are still a lot of standard questions being asked as well.
With you not getting answers to your questions, it's more likely due to not being in an active enough forum or not being seen by the right people rather than people not answering purely because it's not as technical as other questions might be.
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As I said from the beginning, it was obvious to me very quickly that XDA was far and away the BEST Android forum. That is why I chose it and though I did register on one or two other forums, I have rarely ever visited them (other than, as I mentioned, through Google searches).
For best discussion purposes, I don't think we should focus on my specific issues with getting questions answered (even though they did somewhat provoke this thread). I have a Sprint Galaxy S4, not an unpopular phone or inactive forum, and I feel I am able to express my issues relatively well. However, I finally left that forum with my question, having gotten nowhere (though my issue is VERY unusual) and went to the general Galaxy S4 forum, and received the best help I have received from a user from outside the USA who was totally unfamiliar with Sprint system software, but made general recommendations that I found greatly helpful. However, I am just one person and I digress somewhat...
I would think it would be fair to say that XDA is NOT the best Android forum for users who want to be spoon-fed (unless, perhaps, they limit themselves to N00B friendly threads)... I am personally not as annoyed by these types of people as many are, but I certainly see many here who are (how often do you see, "read the OP")... I was recently following a thread where a new user kept being referred to the OP, even though clearly it WAS NOT answering his question (which was outside of my personal knowledge, though I did try). Perhaps there are better Android forums for these types of people (not referring to the person in the last example) than XDA?
OR... maybe just send them to one of zepplinrox' threads :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=32472429&postcount=15372
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=32475760&postcount=15374

All forums are good since they are all providing free tutorials which help the users .
The only advantage xda has is that the OWNERS do their best to keep the forum up , thing which require a good paid server and monthly payments .. other forum owners simply do not afford paying for the fees each month from the simple reason that once the visitors are getting big in numbers the forum server also do require some server updates . So thanks XDA owners for keeping this forum up !!

alin razvan said:
...The only advantage xda has is that the OWNERS do their best to keep the forum up...
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WOW... you're leaving yourself a little wide open with that comment I think...
(No offense intended...)

People seem to forget XDA is not a support forum. It never has been.
As the motto says: "For Developers, By Developers".

the_scotsman said:
People seem to forget XDA is not a support forum. It never has been.
As the motto says: "For Developers, By Developers".
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Now that's the kind of strong opinion I was looking for! :good: (Whether we choose to agree or disagree...)

the_scotsman said:
People seem to forget XDA is not a support forum. It never has been.
As the motto says: "For Developers, By Developers".
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Actually, that was exactly the response I wanted to hear when I started this thread (and from a MOD too!). It is not for me to say whether that is right or wrong (or for anyone else to say, IMO), everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is why I started this thread. But I guess I am interested in what percentage of users here feel that way? I am SURE it is a larger percentage than at other Android forums. However, that may be made somewhat irrelevant by this forum having (I AM ASSUMING) a larger user base than the other Android forums, so when that percentage is removed, there are still more users here interested in supporting others. And, of course, I am not saying this is or is not a support forum. Opinions are what I want! :good:
(TOTALLY IRRELEVANT QUESTION for the_scotsman, haggis muncher from Australia: I go to the Scottish Highland Gathering & Games in Pleasanton California every year and I am mystified as to how the didgeridoo seems to have become a Scottish instrument... know anything about this?)

rsngfrce said:
(TOTALLY IRRELEVANT QUESTION for the_scotsman, haggis muncher from Australia: I go to the Scottish Highland Gathering & Games in Pleasanton California every year and I am mystified as to how the didgeridoo seems to have become a Scottish instrument... know anything about this?)
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hah! I have no idea to be honest! Seems to be a sort of link between Scottish bands using didgeridoos for some reason...perhaps because they sound good played together with bagpipes :good: