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Hi, my english won't be very good because it's not my native langage.
I'm very sensitive to the flicker caused by PWM (Pulse Width modulation) wich is a technique used in the backlighting of a lot of LCD display to dim the brightness of the screen. I'm a "migraineur with aura" wich is a neurological disease, so like epileptic people my eyes and my brain are very sensitive to all sort of visual stress even the most subliminal one like PWM used at a high frequency. And I wanted to know if the note 10.1 (2014) use PWM to dim the screen at all level of brightness? I m' sure that it use it a least until 50 %, and that it is not PWMed at 100% brightness. Cause at 50% i'm sick litteraly within second, and at 100% i'm ok. But I have not tested all the level between 50 to 100 cause if it's flicker I can have quite a serious seazure, which would leave me ill for days, so it's quite hasardeous for my health. So what i'm doing is that i leave the system brightness to 100% wich of course is too bright, but I dim it with a soft (screen adjuster) that can dim the display without touching the backlight. But it's not a perfect solution cause the display is still using a lot of energy that way and there's a lot amount of blue wavelenght coming from it and i'm sensitive to blue wavelenght too. Basically as you can see, LED backligh is not a very good technology for epileptic people, eye-sensitive or migraineur. (I personally think it's not a healthy tec for anybody)
So, I just wanted to know if someone know if there's an "official" level where the note doesn't use PWM anymore to control the brightness of the screen, I mean below 100? Thanks in advance, and i'm sorry if my post can sound a bit confuse, it's not easy to try to ask and explain something in a langage that's note your native langage. Thanks in advance.
Hi all, i have experienced something strange with my Z5P. When i take a walk on bright sunny day, the screen got bright for about 2-3 minutes, but then it would go down to the dimmest state without any info. I tried to push it up manually but it won't do. so i decided to pocket it for a while and when i'm in shade, i turn it on again and it goes back to normal.. So my question is, is this normal due to 4K display? Or is it a bug in Marshmallow? Because it really makes me hard to read at outdoor after a while. The screen surface sure is hot though.. Anybody have the same experience?
I am still on Lollipop and have the same issue
hansip87 said:
Hi all, i have experienced something strange with my Z5P. When i take a walk on bright sunny day, the screen got bright for about 2-3 minutes, but then it would go down to the dimmest state without any info. I tried to push it up manually but it won't do. so i decided to pocket it for a while and when i'm in shade, i turn it on again and it goes back to normal.. So my question is, is this normal due to 4K display? Or is it a bug in Marshmallow? Because it really makes me hard to read at outdoor after a while. The screen surface sure is hot though.. Anybody have the same experience?
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I think this was happening in the other z series like the z1 too. But I think this because the phone would heat up and thus, the phone tries to cool down by doing that. I think there was a fix in the z1 phones but I'm not sure.
Sent from my Sony E6883 using XDA Labs
Ashray_Vk said:
I think this was happening in the other z series like the z1 too. But I think this because the phone would heat up and thus, the phone tries to cool down by doing that. I think there was a fix in the z1 phones but I'm not sure.
Sent from my Sony E6883 using XDA Labs
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Hmm well my first XZU doesn't have any issue like that, but then again it's a big screen though.. So it's a shame if such issue happens due to heat..
Same thing has been happening to me too. Very very disappointed.
How can we fix it?
thihaz said:
Same thing has been happening to me too. Very very disappointed.
How can we fix it?
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Don't go out into the bright sunlight! Stay in the shade. Having said that, I'm in the sun right now and I have no problems...
Sent from my SGP311 using XDA Free mobile app
guhvanoh said:
Don't go out into the bright sunlight! Stay in the shade. Having said that, I'm in the sun right now and I have no problems...
Sent from my SGP311 using XDA Free mobile app
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I only go into bright sunlight during lunch time when i enjoy the movie while having my meal.
The display is almost black. My previous phones LG G4, ZUK Z1, Moto X Style, even Note 4 or 3 has no issues.
I paid SGD835 for the phone and it sucks.
Enjoy man since you don't have that problem.
Still no fix for this annoying issue?
thihaz said:
I only go into bright sunlight during lunch time when i enjoy the movie while having my meal.
The display is almost black. My previous phones LG G4, ZUK Z1, Moto X Style, even Note 4 or 3 has no issues.
I paid SGD835 for the phone and it sucks.
Enjoy man since you don't have that problem.
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All phones from any manufactures with snapdragon 810 have an overheating problem (you can thank Qualcomm for that)...since the Z5p uses that SoC as well, this is a protection implemented by Sony so the processor doesn't fry your phone, your phone will get hot already watching a movie as you do under normal conditions, the situation will get even more steamy in full sun (on a hot day, it's fine when it's cooler outside)...the screen brightness is reduced to cool down the phone when it becomes too hot...
With that said there is a way change the value of the minium screen brightness (if you're rooted) to a higher number... If you search there is a thread about this in the Z5p forum already where someone posted where to find what to change...never tried myself by the way as you permanently change that value to some higher so it will be too bright the rest of the time and frankly I think that it will do more harm than good anyway...
Just let your phone cool down and you're good to go again...
-DM- said:
All phones from any manufactures with snapdragon 810 have an overheating problem (you can thank Qualcomm for that)...since the Z5p uses that SoC as well, this is a protection implemented by Sony so the processor doesn't fry your phone, your phone will get hot already watching a movie as you do under normal conditions, the situation will get even more steamy in full sun (on a hot day, it's fine when it's cooler outside)...the screen brightness is reduced to cool down the phone when it becomes too hot...
With that said there is a way change the value of the minium screen brightness (if you're rooted) to a higher number... If you search there is a thread about this in the Z5p forum already where someone posted where to find what to change...never tried myself by the way as you permanently change that value to some higher so it will be too bright the rest of the time and frankly I think that it will do more harm than good anyway...
Just let your phone cool down and you're good to go again...
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip.
Because of those pros and cons, sony lacks behind. Sadly I am already using iphone 7 plus and there is no such a problem on camera and display.
Still keep my Z Ultra for fun though
thihaz said:
Thanks for the tip.
Because of those pros and cons, sony lacks behind. Sadly I am already using iphone 7 plus and there is no such a problem on camera and display.
Still keep my Z Ultra for fun though
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Whatever floats your boat
If anyone have issue with this(Eveyone should), I have file that let you use 100% of screen brightness, of cause it's adjustable.
Basically let you have full control without Thermal limit kicks in.
Only thing is that the file can not be modified without ROOT...
Let me know
It's call thermal-engine.conf, all you have to do is change all the numbers under "backlight" to 255(Max value).
It works great, I've been using it as is for more than one year.
It's located Root/system/etc/thermal-engine.conf
-DM- said:
Whatever floats your boat
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Had the same problem, at least think so since I was never able to recover by cooling the Z5 so I am not sure.
Then, I installed Lux Auto Brightness.
The last 72 hours are much better and I was in the sun though not sure if the phone was overheating.
In settings I set Min brightness to 40%, linked ambient light of 0 lux to 60% brightness and let the app do its thing.
So far so good.
Let me know what you think.
barrr said:
Had the same problem, at least think so since I was never able to recover by cooling the Z5 so I am not sure.
Then, I installed Lux Auto Brightness.
The last 72 hours are much better and I was in the sun though not sure if the phone was overheating.
In settings I set Min brightness to 40%, linked ambient light of 0 lux to 60% brightness and let the app do its thing.
So far so good.
Let me know what you think.
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Click to collapse
never tried Lux Auto Brightness...I'll give it a try, but the screen dimming only happens to me on rare occasions while outside under a hot sun, I'll install that app and see next time around when I meet those conditions
Hi all!
Does anybody know if HTC 10 uses PWM (Pulse-width modulation) for brightness control?
PWM is a cheap and easy technology to manage screen brightness. To adjust brightness PWM-controller rapidly (usually with speed of 230-240 Hz) turns backlight on and off, which in turn could cause headaches and eye fatigue after using the device.
More about PWM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
Absence of PWM is one of the key parameters for me. Unfortunately only a few reviewers test flickering and this information is very hard to find. So far, I have not found a single review with PWM test.
Thank you!
21.05.2016 update: Notebookcheck confirmed that HTC 10 is flicker free!
Surely the only way to dim LEDs is with PWM?
Nope, PWM is just the cheapest an the easiest way. Plus controller won't overheat.
But there are other ways to dim LEDs. One of the oldest ways - variable resistor.
Considering humans see appx 60-90 hz I'd say this is a non-concern.
Unless you're a mutant who can see 100hz+ in which case you must go crazy anywhere you go from the constant exposure to higher frequencies.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Considering that I had 5 laser eye surgeries this concerns me a lot.
Using a screen with PWM for more that 15 minutes causes eye strain for me. And this is the main reason why I haven't already bought Galaxy S7.
You are lucky that PWM doesn't affect your eye, and probably should google further more: https://www.google.ru/?#safe=off&q=pwm+eye+strain
datafoo said:
Considering humans see appx 60-90 hz I'd say this is a non-concern.
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Where did you get that info? Especially flickering can be seen at even higher frequencies. I personally see flickering on the XPS 15 and it uses PWM at around 362 Hz.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-2016-9550-InfinityEdge-Notebook-Review.156354.0.html
It's not disturbing but it is noticeable.
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
Also the difference between 60 Hz and 144 Hz in a monitor is obvious just by dragging windows around.
If you can't see it, fine. But don't go around telling untrue stuff please.
Dr. lele said:
Where did you get that info? Especially flickering can be seen at even higher frequencies. I personally see flickering on the XPS 15 and it uses PWM at around 362 Hz.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-2016-9550-InfinityEdge-Notebook-Review.156354.0.html
It's not disturbing but it is noticeable.
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
Also the difference between 60 Hz and 144 Hz in a monitor is obvious just by dragging windows around.
If you can't see it, fine. But don't go around telling untrue stuff please.
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Click to collapse
Untrue stuff LOLOLOLOLOL - I believe you're suffering a nocebo effect.
Pardon my incredulity but as I mentioned if you see anything over 100hz you're a mutant (I said 60-90hz) and that appears to be corroborated by your 100fps link. I'm not completely disagreeing with you, I'm however pointing out that you're such a small subset of the population it's rare and hard to validate.
Although FPS and HZ are different we'll bypass the semantics for the fact we're discussing cycles per second in a general fashion.
It must drive you crazy being ANYWHERE with lighting and electricity. At least here in the US electricity runs at appx 60hz so lights (most computer monitors etc) must bother you quite a bit.
Either way, good luck to you. I hope you find what you're looking for.
There is of course a difference between the way LCDs refresh their content and the way CRTs did. Strobing of light can definitely be seen at much higher rates than you said.
Also I never said that it's infuriating or drives me crazy I just said it's noticeable. I have no idea where you get this from.
Tests with Air force pilots have shown, that they could identify the plane on a flashed picture that was flashed only for 1/220th of a second.
That is identifying. So it's pretty safe to say, that recognizing, that SOME light was there is possible with 1/300th of a second.
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Click to collapse
That was the part I wanted to show you.
Now the blur on LCDs is a different story, since the lights are on constantly and only the pixels change color at the given rate. But still you cann see the motion blur / dragging of the cursor even on a 144 Hz screen. Albeit much less noticeable than on a 60 Hz one.
If given a 60 Hz display side by side with a 144 Hz panel most people will be able to tell you which one feels more natural.
BTT: I don' think it will be a real poblem even if HTC does use a PWM module. Even though it might be somehow noticeable it won't disturb most people. Also: how often do you use your phone at the lowet brightness.
Yay! HTC 10 is PWM (flicker) free! Confirmed by Notebookcheck: http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HTC-10-Smartphone.164311.0.html (in German).
Oscillogram: http://www.notebookcheck.com/fileadmin/Notebooks/HTC/10/response_pwm.jpg
Just want to add that being able to notice it and it affecting you are two different things. Normally you can't notice neon lights flicker but they do and it will strain your eyes and make you tired. That's why bars have started to charge them out to leds.
Sent from my HTC 10
Glad I'm not effected by this crap. I'd hate having to pass on phones I really like just because they use PWM.
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
Hello everyone,
I have seen tech youtubers test the F3 and some mention that it will dimm the display quite a lot when gaming. (also another one did 4k video shooting for extended time and seen the same thing)
Do you think this is because the SD870 really "could" have an heat issue in the F3 and the software is protecting the AMOLED from damage due to overheating?
However I am still looking forward to receive mine, I just want to utilize the bright display at least during normal usage
Not sure what happens, I'm seeing the same stuff on diferent video reviews of Poco F3, the thing is, Poco X3 or Redmi K40 Pro usually go even beyond 10+ºC higher and do not suffer of such dimming issue. I'm guessing it's something software related.
Yes agreed, the SD888 devices get hotter and do not show this behavior.
Let's pray it's a software issue.
Could also be that the E4 Samsung panels really do need to derate because of their really high brightness. Even a 50% reduction would be as bright as my F1's screen at max. brightness
I am reading in local Malaysian forums they talk about comments in Xiaomi forum for k40 having such issue. I don't understand mandarin I am based on what they said its an issue with K40. Let's hope software upgrade could fix this issue.
Saw the same problems in some reviews yet a member of this forum who already has it had some issues with haptic feedback others have battery problems. I think I will buy another phone
MySelf_v1 said:
Saw the same problems in some reviews yet a member of this forum who already has it had some issues with haptic feedback others have battery problems. I think I will buy another phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well quality problems exist everywhere. Check out the S21 Ultra forum, there big discussions about poor camera quality are ongoing.
MySelf_v1 said:
Saw the same problems in some reviews yet a member of this forum who already has it had some issues with haptic feedback others have battery problems. I think I will buy another phone
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Click to collapse
Yeah don't get me wrong, only having a slightly noisy haptic feedback motor is not a bad result. When I bought my Oneplus 3 back in the day, the USB-C port was slightly offset, so the cable wouldn't fit snugly and dash charging wouldn't work. I've reported my problem with the haptic feedback motor on another forum and people seem to agree it is slightly noisy, but other than that the phone works like a charm for me (so far).
@Kom_zo That is reassuring to hear, glad you enjoy it
Maybe this was Xiaomi's design intent all along to have a more "audible" motor.
I will check it out once I have it here.
Did you experience any high heat and unintended dimming so far?
I have not had the chance to use my phone intensively yet, just some light browsing and Youtube/Netflix. I have however just made a video of the haptic feedback sound and I can tell you that this is not by design (the popping noise is coming from the phone, not the recording)
@Kom_zo Thanks for sharing!
Agreed, it definitely sounds not normal - somehow like a hollow "clicking".
Is it bearable or will you return it?
I have haptic feedback turned off by default, but my phone will vibrate for alarms/notifications and calls. As of right now it might just sound broken, but it is a moving part that could cause more damage to the internals of the device. I will try to swap it for a white model in a few days, but I think I will return it either way.
GeForce66 said:
Hello everyone,
I have seen tech youtubers test the F3 and some mention that it will dimm the display quite a lot when gaming. (also another one did 4k video shooting for extended time and seen the same thing)
Do you think this is because the SD870 really "could" have an heat issue in the F3 and the software is protecting the AMOLED from damage due to overheating?
However I am still looking forward to receive mine, I just want to utilize the bright display at least during normal usage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is comment mind you frm Malaysian forum. I don't know anything about amoled
Zenkilla said:
This is comment mind you frm Malaysian forum. I don't know anything about amoled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the statement from the Malaysian guys, it makes sense.
However there is a video from the same youtuber which shows Black Shark 4 vs F3 and the BS4 doesn't dimm the display.
Though I don't know which brand/type of amoled the BS4 uses.
Edit: Found it, watch from minute 2 onwards:
Is there any green tint with low brightness?
bassbounce said:
Is there any green tint with low brightness?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shouldn't happen, since the F3 uses PWM for the amoled screen which eliminates color shift at low brightnesses.
This problem happen too when you off auto brightness ?
I think the tech youtube has set it to manual max. brightness.
I can only assume it will limit brightness at high temps regardless if you are on auto or manual.
I might get bashed for this but you can underclock and undervolt the GPU with KonaBess: https://github.com/xzr467706992/KonaBess
It's worth a shot if you don't game a lot, it'll likely not overheat causing the screen to dim as much.
I still feel the screen dimming will be reduced with the upcoming MIUI 12.5 update for the F3.
POCO said on a live stream that they are working on the dimming problem.
42:59 and at 1:06:19
Bonondo said:
POCO said on a live stream that they are working on the dimming problem.
42:59 and at 1:06:19
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent, thanks for sharing this information!
Hello everyone,
I got my device some time ago and wanted to highlight the things that rarely ever get mentioned by your average youtuber.
-) Yes, vibration motor noise is there.
But it feels really intentional, not like it is broken.
For me personally I don't mind it really, just wanted to share it since this is dicussed in this forum.
I don't have the "crackling" that has been mentioned, it feels more like when you set the alarm on an iPhone and rotate the hours/minutes wheel - satisfying.
-) Screen PWM'ing
The display is great, gets decently bright especially when viewing HDR content on YT.
Also the 120Hz is definitely a game changer, you can trust me on that.
What I however noticed coming from my F1 is the PWM.
Feels like they do 240-280Hz PWMing the brightness.
I feel like it is causing me headaches and sore eyes, but might just be the exhaustion after coming home from office work on Thursday's
Will see how it develops - my F1 has also PWM, but at around 4000Hz (!) which is definitely not noticeable.
Anyone of you have noticed the PWM? I might be an isolated case, even all high-end Samsungs's have 240Hz and no one complains ...
If you know a hack to enable DC dimming just shoot me a PM please
Hope I don't have to send it back because of this, would be really a shame.
-) Green tilt
Yes, I have noticed some green tilt at the upper half of the screen.
Only happens at really low brightnesses and with certain silver/grey'ish colors in dark mode with reading mode on.
But it is really minor, you really have to focus to make out a slight green shift.
That is no issue for me really, but wanted to highlight it because of the ongoing discussin.
Actually that was all.
The rest is great so far.
Extremely fast, premium build, nice AOD, battery is good so far, camera is more than enough for me and the sound quality is excellent.
If you want to me to test/check out something just let me know, as long as it doesn't involve ADB
Motor noise?
djuroue1 said:
Motor noise?
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Click to collapse
The vibration motor for the haptic feedback.
GeForce66 said:
The vibration motor for the haptic feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ok.I didnt hear that.
About Dc dimming:
I have read that they had problems with it, so it might not come to the stable version but it can be enabled in the developer version.
darkb7 said:
About Dc dimming:
I have read that they had problems with it, so it might not come to the stable version but it can be enabled in the developer version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any link you can share with me? Maybe there is a chance I can give it a try.
GeForce66 said:
Any link you can share with me? Maybe there is a chance I can give it a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was stated about the K40 on Weibo by a Xiaomi official, but since it is the same phone as Poco F3 I guess the situation is no different.
Here is a link: https://en.xiaomitoday.it/redmi-k40-poco-f3-dc-dimming.html
Yeah so I have packed it up again and will send it back to Amazon.
Unfortunately the PWM does not go along with my eyes/brain.
But other than that, great device - can definitely recommend, just make sure you are not sensitive to PWM.
When does PWM kick in according to the brightness settings?
From what I have seen as soon as you are below 100%
PWM?
_j3roen said:
PWM?
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This should explain very well: https://www.oled-info.com/pulse-width-modulation-pwm-oled-displays
Can you please help me.. I don't know if my eyes are sensitive to pwm or not as I've always used an ips and I don't have the option of returning the phone, I used to get a headache behind my eyes while using my old pc for a long time, so does it relate to it or did you have the same problem?
Well yes, it could be - or you just were in front of the screen too long in general.
For me only my eyes start to burn when i have work in front of the pc all day, but no pain behind the eyes. This only happens with PWM'd OLEDs it seems.
What monitor have you been using with your pc?
GeForce66 said:
Well yes, it could be - or you just were in front of the screen too long in general.
For me only my eyes start to burn when i have work in front of the pc all day, but no pain behind the eyes. This only happens with PWM'd OLEDs it seems.
What monitor have you been using with your pc?
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Click to collapse
samsung monitor b1930n, I used to get the pain after playing for long time. I then switched to a laptop (lenovo z50-70) and the frequency of the pain decreased a lot
I couldn't really find much information. If you have the chance just point a camera at the screen when set to medium/low brightness, if you see the flicker then your screen uses PWM.
To anyone wondering about PWM in the future, notebookcheck measured it at 490Hz. This should be fine for almost anyone.
My current phone Mi 9T has 240 and I did not even know it, so I'm good. Had me scared for a bit with the headaches and whatnot
This is a great phone and I am actually impressed by its display. It's so clear to the point that I enjoyed watching cricket matches on this phone. Great sounds as well, especially for the fact that it's not expensive.
Need assistance !
I'm planning to buy this phone since I'm done with my mi 10T .
Mi 10T having 1 issue which is the only reason i will let it go . The earpiece
has the ultrasonic technology which is annoying and unstable causing a lot of calling issues since there's no a proximity sensor . Even the WhatsApp voice notes having the same issues .
I have looked around for newer phone which i think poco F3 might be the one!
I have tried to look around if xiaomi still using that stupid technology init ! But no luck.
If ur facing proximity sensor issues please confirm since my birthday is coming on sept 18th and I will gify my self a new
Thanks
If you want to change because of the proximity sensor, give the F3 a wide berth. Whether the problem can ever be solved via software is written in the stars - and it is cloudy, very cloudy... I don't think Xiaomi will ever fix this issue.