Develop Bugs

HTC 10 screen flickering (PWM)?

Hi all!
Does anybody know if HTC 10 uses PWM (Pulse-width modulation) for brightness control?
PWM is a cheap and easy technology to manage screen brightness. To adjust brightness PWM-controller rapidly (usually with speed of 230-240 Hz) turns backlight on and off, which in turn could cause headaches and eye fatigue after using the device.
More about PWM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
Absence of PWM is one of the key parameters for me. Unfortunately only a few reviewers test flickering and this information is very hard to find. So far, I have not found a single review with PWM test.
Thank you!
21.05.2016 update: Notebookcheck confirmed that HTC 10 is flicker free!

Surely the only way to dim LEDs is with PWM?

Nope, PWM is just the cheapest an the easiest way. Plus controller won't overheat.
But there are other ways to dim LEDs. One of the oldest ways - variable resistor.

Considering humans see appx 60-90 hz I'd say this is a non-concern.
Unless you're a mutant who can see 100hz+ in which case you must go crazy anywhere you go from the constant exposure to higher frequencies.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Considering that I had 5 laser eye surgeries this concerns me a lot.
Using a screen with PWM for more that 15 minutes causes eye strain for me. And this is the main reason why I haven't already bought Galaxy S7.
You are lucky that PWM doesn't affect your eye, and probably should google further more: https://www.google.ru/?#safe=off&q=pwm+eye+strain

datafoo said:
Considering humans see appx 60-90 hz I'd say this is a non-concern.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get that info? Especially flickering can be seen at even higher frequencies. I personally see flickering on the XPS 15 and it uses PWM at around 362 Hz.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-2016-9550-InfinityEdge-Notebook-Review.156354.0.html
It's not disturbing but it is noticeable.
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
Also the difference between 60 Hz and 144 Hz in a monitor is obvious just by dragging windows around.
If you can't see it, fine. But don't go around telling untrue stuff please.

Dr. lele said:
Where did you get that info? Especially flickering can be seen at even higher frequencies. I personally see flickering on the XPS 15 and it uses PWM at around 362 Hz.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-2016-9550-InfinityEdge-Notebook-Review.156354.0.html
It's not disturbing but it is noticeable.
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
Also the difference between 60 Hz and 144 Hz in a monitor is obvious just by dragging windows around.
If you can't see it, fine. But don't go around telling untrue stuff please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Untrue stuff LOLOLOLOLOL - I believe you're suffering a nocebo effect.
Pardon my incredulity but as I mentioned if you see anything over 100hz you're a mutant (I said 60-90hz) and that appears to be corroborated by your 100fps link. I'm not completely disagreeing with you, I'm however pointing out that you're such a small subset of the population it's rare and hard to validate.
Although FPS and HZ are different we'll bypass the semantics for the fact we're discussing cycles per second in a general fashion.
It must drive you crazy being ANYWHERE with lighting and electricity. At least here in the US electricity runs at appx 60hz so lights (most computer monitors etc) must bother you quite a bit.
Either way, good luck to you. I hope you find what you're looking for.

There is of course a difference between the way LCDs refresh their content and the way CRTs did. Strobing of light can definitely be seen at much higher rates than you said.
Also I never said that it's infuriating or drives me crazy I just said it's noticeable. I have no idea where you get this from.
Tests with Air force pilots have shown, that they could identify the plane on a flashed picture that was flashed only for 1/220th of a second.
That is identifying. So it's pretty safe to say, that recognizing, that SOME light was there is possible with 1/300th of a second.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was the part I wanted to show you.
Now the blur on LCDs is a different story, since the lights are on constantly and only the pixels change color at the given rate. But still you cann see the motion blur / dragging of the cursor even on a 144 Hz screen. Albeit much less noticeable than on a 60 Hz one.
If given a 60 Hz display side by side with a 144 Hz panel most people will be able to tell you which one feels more natural.
BTT: I don' think it will be a real poblem even if HTC does use a PWM module. Even though it might be somehow noticeable it won't disturb most people. Also: how often do you use your phone at the lowet brightness.

Yay! HTC 10 is PWM (flicker) free! Confirmed by Notebookcheck: http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HTC-10-Smartphone.164311.0.html (in German).
Oscillogram: http://www.notebookcheck.com/fileadmin/Notebooks/HTC/10/response_pwm.jpg

Just want to add that being able to notice it and it affecting you are two different things. Normally you can't notice neon lights flicker but they do and it will strain your eyes and make you tired. That's why bars have started to charge them out to leds.
Sent from my HTC 10

Glad I'm not effected by this crap. I'd hate having to pass on phones I really like just because they use PWM.
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Pixel 3 XL Brightness Issue

Does anyone have any brightness issues? I just got my XL today and the brightness is very weak and I'm very disappointed. I uploaded a video onto Youtube so you can see the issue. Let me know....
https://youtu.be/pTjE4wi2Vc0

i'm not having any brightness issues at all.

freebee269 said:
i'm not having any brightness issues at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but is it bright or just meh? That video with 50% brightness compared to the 5t has it really sucking on the Pixel. UrAvgConsumer also mentioned a few times that the brightness wasn't that great.

It looks bright even outdoors from online reviews I've seen.

minhtluu said:
Does anyone have any brightness issues? I just got my XL today and the brightness is very weak and I'm very disappointed in a 900 phone. I uploaded a video onto Youtube so you can see the issue. Let me know....
https://youtu.be/pTjE4wi2Vc0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If not already, turn off adaptive brightness on the P3XL like it is on the 5T and compare again. If it is already off I'd like to see the setting in another vid..

The 2 XL was the same on Pie.. I had to set the brightness to 80% ... it's not a display problem it's software for sure..

cryppie said:
If not already, turn off adaptive brightness on the P3XL like it is on the 5T and compare again. If it is already off I'd like to see the setting in another vid..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The adaptive brightness was definitely off. I was going to make another video but Google Support called me before I uploaded the video. They told me it was working as designed. I'm not going to argue with them. If they don't see an issue with it, they aren't going to fix it. I'm just going to return the phone.
I'm not one to spend a lot on phones, in the past I've owned the Nexus S, 4, 5, 6P, Oneplus One and 5T which were all reasonably priced phones. This was my first phone I decided to splurge on and I felt it wasn't worth the price I paid. Yes, the brightness isn't that big of a deal but for $969.68 I expect a perfect phone.
I hope the brightness issue is a non-issue for you folks.

NICEGYPT said:
The 2 XL was the same on Pie.. I had to set the brightness to 80% ... it's not a display problem it's software for sure..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was the brightness control more linear on Oreo?

https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-2-xl/help/android-p-wth-brightness-t3825844
https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/...c-brightness-slider-introduced-android-p-dp3/
https://forums.androidcentral.com/g...ubt-about-display-brightness-android-pie.html
The slider values have changed from linear to log. No need to worry just move slider more to right and it will be just as bright as before.

(survey) different shade on screen upper part than lower

hello friends,
I am having weird issue from yesterday.
my phone was too hot while charging and i was gaming.
I felt that colors are shifted too much on upper part where device heat.
then i tested with screen tester app, all colors were looking fine, but when dark gray comes, there was warm shade on upper part and cool shade on lower part.
I thought this will recover after device cool down, but now 1 day passed, 90% screen recovered but 10% still remain different.
I am going to RMA this and did not expected this from oneplus, oneplus 7 still far better in display department..
.
you guys, please test this as I mentioned above and reply here.

RohanAJoshi said:
hello friends,
I am having weird issue from yesterday.
my phone was too hot while charging and i was gaming.
I felt that colors are shifted too much on upper part where device heat.
then i tested with screen tester app, all colors were looking fine, but when dark gray comes, there was warm shade on upper part and cool shade on lower part.
I thought this will recover after device cool down, but now 1 day passed, 90% screen recovered but 10% still remain different.
I am going to RMA this and did not expected this from oneplus, oneplus 7 still far better in display department..
.
you guys, please test this as I mentioned above and reply here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tested 2 hours fortnite - epic settings with charger.
nothing happens
maybe cool down the 10% with some ice? but be carefull - maybe a "frostshock" recover the damaged displaypart.
if not, rma.

Yeah I have a little bit of that as well. It comes and goes on mine. It was much worse when I first got the phone. I was checking off the bat because I had the same (but much much worse) on the pixel 4.

Many MANY people have the same issue, enable DC Dimming in the OnePlus Laboratory to fix this

I decided to return my handset to retailer.
Great device, the smoothest i've ever used with huge potential for future development, but this panel is bit disappointing. I mean in normal light conditions it's so pretty you don't miss qhd at all. Once you step into dark room you can forget about dark theming.

RelicUser said:
Many MANY people have the same issue, enable DC Dimming in the OnePlus Laboratory to fix this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does fix the issue but then the contrast sucks. I just decided to deal with it. Hopefully it's fixed in a future update because overall I love this phone.

I am afraid it's hw issue.

ChongoDroid said:
Yeah I have a little bit of that as well. It comes and goes on mine. It was much worse when I first got the phone. I was checking off the bat because I had the same (but much much worse) on the pixel 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RelicUser said:
Many MANY people have the same issue, enable DC Dimming in the OnePlus Laboratory to fix this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
forever_lol said:
I decided to return my handset to retailer.
Great device, the smoothest i've ever used with huge potential for future development, but this panel is bit disappointing. I mean in normal light conditions it's so pretty you don't miss qhd at all. Once you step into dark room you can forget about dark theming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lendawg said:
It does fix the issue but then the contrast sucks. I just decided to deal with it. Hopefully it's fixed in a future update because overall I love this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
forever_lol said:
I am afraid it's hw issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does anyone of you try RMA ?
Maybe they have updated panels from oem if this issue is too widespread.
Had same experience with poco with touchpanel. 1st novatek touch panels were worse in touch response, then they replaced it with focaltek touch panels for newer batches.

Yeah maybe they should but mine is barely noticeable. If yours bugs you then return it for sure but mine is barely noticeable.

General F3: My observations so far

Hello everyone,
I got my device some time ago and wanted to highlight the things that rarely ever get mentioned by your average youtuber.
-) Yes, vibration motor noise is there.
But it feels really intentional, not like it is broken.
For me personally I don't mind it really, just wanted to share it since this is dicussed in this forum.
I don't have the "crackling" that has been mentioned, it feels more like when you set the alarm on an iPhone and rotate the hours/minutes wheel - satisfying.
-) Screen PWM'ing
The display is great, gets decently bright especially when viewing HDR content on YT.
Also the 120Hz is definitely a game changer, you can trust me on that.
What I however noticed coming from my F1 is the PWM.
Feels like they do 240-280Hz PWMing the brightness.
I feel like it is causing me headaches and sore eyes, but might just be the exhaustion after coming home from office work on Thursday's
Will see how it develops - my F1 has also PWM, but at around 4000Hz (!) which is definitely not noticeable.
Anyone of you have noticed the PWM? I might be an isolated case, even all high-end Samsungs's have 240Hz and no one complains ...
If you know a hack to enable DC dimming just shoot me a PM please
Hope I don't have to send it back because of this, would be really a shame.
-) Green tilt
Yes, I have noticed some green tilt at the upper half of the screen.
Only happens at really low brightnesses and with certain silver/grey'ish colors in dark mode with reading mode on.
But it is really minor, you really have to focus to make out a slight green shift.
That is no issue for me really, but wanted to highlight it because of the ongoing discussin.
Actually that was all.
The rest is great so far.
Extremely fast, premium build, nice AOD, battery is good so far, camera is more than enough for me and the sound quality is excellent.
If you want to me to test/check out something just let me know, as long as it doesn't involve ADB

Motor noise?

djuroue1 said:
Motor noise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The vibration motor for the haptic feedback.

GeForce66 said:
The vibration motor for the haptic feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ok.I didnt hear that.

About Dc dimming:
I have read that they had problems with it, so it might not come to the stable version but it can be enabled in the developer version.

darkb7 said:
About Dc dimming:
I have read that they had problems with it, so it might not come to the stable version but it can be enabled in the developer version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any link you can share with me? Maybe there is a chance I can give it a try.

GeForce66 said:
Any link you can share with me? Maybe there is a chance I can give it a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was stated about the K40 on Weibo by a Xiaomi official, but since it is the same phone as Poco F3 I guess the situation is no different.
Here is a link: https://en.xiaomitoday.it/redmi-k40-poco-f3-dc-dimming.html

Yeah so I have packed it up again and will send it back to Amazon.
Unfortunately the PWM does not go along with my eyes/brain.
But other than that, great device - can definitely recommend, just make sure you are not sensitive to PWM.

When does PWM kick in according to the brightness settings?

From what I have seen as soon as you are below 100%

PWM?

_j3roen said:
PWM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This should explain very well: https://www.oled-info.com/pulse-width-modulation-pwm-oled-displays

Can you please help me.. I don't know if my eyes are sensitive to pwm or not as I've always used an ips and I don't have the option of returning the phone, I used to get a headache behind my eyes while using my old pc for a long time, so does it relate to it or did you have the same problem?

Well yes, it could be - or you just were in front of the screen too long in general.
For me only my eyes start to burn when i have work in front of the pc all day, but no pain behind the eyes. This only happens with PWM'd OLEDs it seems.
What monitor have you been using with your pc?

GeForce66 said:
Well yes, it could be - or you just were in front of the screen too long in general.
For me only my eyes start to burn when i have work in front of the pc all day, but no pain behind the eyes. This only happens with PWM'd OLEDs it seems.
What monitor have you been using with your pc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
samsung monitor b1930n, I used to get the pain after playing for long time. I then switched to a laptop (lenovo z50-70) and the frequency of the pain decreased a lot

I couldn't really find much information. If you have the chance just point a camera at the screen when set to medium/low brightness, if you see the flicker then your screen uses PWM.

To anyone wondering about PWM in the future, notebookcheck measured it at 490Hz. This should be fine for almost anyone.
My current phone Mi 9T has 240 and I did not even know it, so I'm good. Had me scared for a bit with the headaches and whatnot

This is a great phone and I am actually impressed by its display. It's so clear to the point that I enjoyed watching cricket matches on this phone. Great sounds as well, especially for the fact that it's not expensive.

Need assistance !
I'm planning to buy this phone since I'm done with my mi 10T .
Mi 10T having 1 issue which is the only reason i will let it go . The earpiece
has the ultrasonic technology which is annoying and unstable causing a lot of calling issues since there's no a proximity sensor . Even the WhatsApp voice notes having the same issues .
I have looked around for newer phone which i think poco F3 might be the one!
I have tried to look around if xiaomi still using that stupid technology init ! But no luck.
If ur facing proximity sensor issues please confirm since my birthday is coming on sept 18th and I will gify my self a new
Thanks

If you want to change because of the proximity sensor, give the F3 a wide berth. Whether the problem can ever be solved via software is written in the stars - and it is cloudy, very cloudy... I don't think Xiaomi will ever fix this issue.

Question Follow up review of the Pixel 6 Pro

Do you agree with his retake?

MArtyChubbs said:
Do you agree with his retake?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do

Auto brightness never worked well on any of my Samsung's, uses excessive battery pi$$es off my retinas, so i always use manual control. It's not just a Pixel thing
Personally I rather see a review where the reviewer finds flaws and pick away at them; it shows candor. The endless mainstream reviews of Samsung flagship duds that give them glowing reviews to boost sales are so old and predictable. Reddit gives better reviews
Updates break things. Upgrades destroy worlds.
Leave it be unless you see them working miracles for other users after a couple months. Trust more what individual users and small fry reviewers say than CNET, Tom's Guide, Phonearena, etc.
Take what you got, optimize it, and find work arounds rather than constantly updating and upgrading it. Every time you update and especially upgrades you change the playing field and you can end up starting the optimization/work around process all over again. Like a reoccurring nightmare. Who wants a phone with an identity crisis that's constantly morphing into variants you have no control over?
I want a fast, stable, reliable platform that fulfills its mission. I have no desire to be an unpaid perpetual bataware tester for something I paid big bucks for!
You may not agree with what I just stated. I don't respond to sales/scare hype. I want to see rubber biting into the bloody asphalt not just a cloud of smoke and noise.
Case in point is this N10+ in my hand still running extremely well on Pie. Current load will be 2 yo this June. It's fast, stable with minimal maintenance and bug free. I spend very little time troubleshooting it now. Security is not an issue.
It does exactly what it should be doing, working.

I'm currently looking for another phone as the signal is so poor on this chipset and Google has locked it down so I can't get 5G or Volte even though my network is supported they won't unlock it

I think he needs to RMA his phone, because I did that as well. Amazing experience after it!!

Interesting, i have a Pixel 6 Pro, my wife has a Pixel 6 and my best mate has a Pixel 6 Pro and apart from the fingerprint sensor being a bit off to start with i cant say we have had any problems since the phone came out.
I've never known adaptive brightness work particulaly well on any phone i have owned to be honest so thats just the norm for me.

I agree with his take.
Auto-brightness has been abysmal on this phone since the beginning. It really shouldn't be, not when they're employing two ambient light sensors. It's especially painful because I use the device in dark environments very often (have a baby, use it to play sleeps sounds to him while he falls asleep) and it never assesses the brightness correctly. The torch thing is also a massive irritation, since it ramps the display brightness up to max in a pitch dark setting, then takes an age to eventually move down to a more acceptable brightness, but not without blinding you first.
I've never had this problem with any Samsung device employing dual ambient brightness sensors; on the contrary, I've always found the brightness settings to be close to perfect on these devices, even the ones where the front sensor shifted under the screen.
Signal is a significant weakness on this phone as well. Whenever I pop to the stores, I regularly find myself without signal when inside the store. I have to literally walk out and walk back in to restore some signal in case I need to call my wife or message her. I can honestly say that weak signal is not the biggest issue to me, it's that is just about disappears in places I have had no issue with other devices. And it's also something that seems to be a problem for me with Pixels, at least on my carrier. This is just the worst I've experienced by a long shot and has me pausing for safety reasons.
The fingerprint reader is not great, but it's much less terrible than it was at the beginning. I've not been as impressed with the cameras as I thought I would
There are still weird bugs (Google Assistant randomly pops up from time to time; changing wallpapers causes the quick settings toggles to disappear until you fully open the notification panel; the April update randomly reset all my custom notification tones; app search sporadically stops working; lift to wake and tap to wake still way too sensitive) and Google has actually regressed in some UX aspects (removing the vibrate icon from the main status bar; the internet tile; the choice of UX around the always on display; etc) compared to even Android 11.
Overall, this is still a great device, and fluidity of the experience is second to none. Too bad about the almost unbearable signal and effectively non-functional auto-brightness.

MrBelter said:
I've never known adaptive brightness work particulaly well on any phone i have owned to be honest so thats just the norm for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Adaptive brightness is close to perfect on the S22U. It can be implemented successfully with the right hardware.

hand-filer said:
Adaptive brightness is close to perfect on the S22U. It can be implemented successfully with the right hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats why i said on any phone i have owned.

The voice to text is strangely broken on this phone. I see many people complain about it specifically on the 6, whereas all previous pixels had excellent voice text accuracy. I still use it primarily for messaging and just accept that people think I'm illiterate.

I'd agreed with the hardware issues. The antenna isn't as good as any of Qualcomm's recent stuff in signal and battery, and the fingerprint reader (which I'd probably rate as "fine" at this point) is still a notable dropoff from the one on the back of the phone.
But there's other complaints from that video that have never been a problem here. Wi-Fi Calling is the one that sticks out that's been great on my device.