Develop Bugs

Stock vs Custom - what's the best for you?

What a great question! I'm so glad you asked!
I recently gave in and got my bootloader unlocked on my Verizon R800x, just so I could see what all the hoopla was about. After a few days of analysis, I've already been able to draw some conclusions that I hope new seekers will find useful.
There are several things to know when making a decision like this one.
1. What model of Xperia Play am I rocking? Not all Xperia Plays are created equal. There is the data connection to consider. If you are in most of the world outside of the US, you probably have a carrier that uses GSM for data. So does AT&T and Sprint in the US. Because it is so common, there are lots of Custom ROMS and kernels, unlocking the bootloader is easy, and many people are experienced in supporting GSM. But you're a Verizon Wireless customer? - sorry, you use a CDMA connection, which means your choices are much more limited, unlocking the bootloader is more of a challenge, and people tend to laugh at you!
2. Do I want to use the phone primarily for gaming with that sweet gamepad and not-so-sweet touchpads? Do I really depend on my phone to be 100% useable at all times? Better stick with ROMs and kernels based off of stock. No need to even know what a bootloader is!
3. Or, screw the games, I wanna be big, bad and bold, on the bleeding edge of technology! Well then, plan on furthering your techie education! You're going to be learning all kinds of fun and interesting terms, like soft brick, hard brick, adb, fastboot, flashing , RAM, ROM, push, root and boot - after awhile it all starts sounding like a naughty little party is going on in your phone! Hey, Baby! I got yer bootloader right here, know wut I'm sayin?
How about some do's and don'ts?
DON'T post a question on how to root, unlock the bootloader, install coolappofthemoment.apk or what does any of these terms mean without doing a little research on your own first. Chances are, someone else asked it at least once, probably a million times, and the only responses you're likely to get are "GEEZE, READ THE BLOODY FORUMS, YA N00B!!!"
DO use Google, search the forums, and actually READ the threads that seem relevant to your question. Yes, you will read a more than a few posts like "Does this work yet?", "I don't like the color of...", "MemberX is a troll!", but interspersed in there is quite a bit of information that you may benefit from and often you will find your answer much more quickly than posting a question and waiting for a valid response.
DON'T be afraid of rooting your phone but...
DO be aware that your warranty may (will) be affected by modifying your phone.
DON'T remove anything preinstalled by the service provider until you...
DO a Nandroid Backup first. (There's a term you will want to explore further. Hint: Look into CWM Custom Recovery.)
DON'Tuninstall system apps right away. Instead freeze them (OOOH another term you might want to learn. Hint: Titanium Backup among other apps.) Once you are comfortable with restoring your Nandroid Backup, you understand what the app does, and you experience no issues freezing it, then you can remove it if you want to free up some internal storage space.
DO pay attention to who the developers are for different projects, as well as frequent posters with actual useful contributions. You can tell who they are by the phrase "The Following 9 million Users Say Thank You to UltraDev For This Useful Post:" These are the people you want to make your bestest friends.
WOW !! Who knew there was so much to learn !!! Can't I just skip all that and charge blindly ahead??? I have one word for you. BRICK !!! OK, I have another word for you:
DON'T!!!
After trying the few kernels and Custom ROMs available to me (Yes, I am a lucky Verizon customer), I decided that, for me, it's fun to be able to juggle razors (Get It? Be on the BLEEDING EDGE???), but since some of the things I like to do with my phone are not yet working with the latest and greatest, I'm better off sticking with a customized stock configuration. The great thing is, I can always try the newer stuff and then go back to the "safe" setup.
Oh yeah! I almost forgot! There is one more DO for you, and it's extremely important!
DO click that Thanks button when someone posts a project or information that you find useful. We all want to know our efforts are appreciated, right? RIGHT?????? <<Taps his foot and looks pointedly at the Thanks button>>

Your post reminded me of Excel, of Excel Saga's fame. For that you carved a little nostalgia hole in my rocky heart.

That's going to be very useful, and you had me laughing for 10 mins with the bootloader thing
Sent from my Xperia Play using Tapatalk

Backdoors in ROMs?

This might seem like a silly question, but does anyone here worry about there being backdoors or code in the custom Roms like Vicious JB, CM9 nightlies, Liquid Smooth, etc... that is malicious?
My biggest concern is someone getting their hands on my gmail account credentials and banking info. I've searched and not seen this addressed anywhere. Aren't we putting a lot of faith into developers and groups we don't know anything about? We operate on the assumption the code is safe because everyone is using it, and the devs and groups have been around a long time.
Just wondering what thoughts people have on this...

That's why you don't flash a ROM by unknown developers and/or from unknown or unregulated forums. XDA is pretty good about keeping things legit. Always read feedback. As much as these people pick and poke at the ROMs it wouldn't be long if foul play was found.
All in all it was the carriers that were key logging and data mining not any dev on XDA.

crazeco said:
This might seem like a silly question, but does anyone here worry about there being backdoors or code in the custom Roms like Vicious JB, CM9 nightlies, Liquid Smooth, etc... that is malicious?
My biggest concern is someone getting their hands on my gmail account credentials and banking info. I've searched and not seen this addressed anywhere. Aren't we putting a lot of faith into developers and groups we don't know anything about? We operate on the assumption the code is safe because everyone is using it, and the devs and groups have been around a long time.
Just wondering what thoughts people have on this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you have root, and install any apps that need root. any of these apps can potentially steal any kind of info from you that it wanted. same with non market applications(non root and non rooted devices) that you install and dont pay attention to what it can access.

It may be just me, but I wont do any banking online from both my phone and desktop. I normally only buy things online from eBay and Amazon. PayPal is pretty secure too for online purchasing.

crazeco said:
This might seem like a silly question, but does anyone here worry about there being backdoors or code in the custom Roms like Vicious JB, CM9 nightlies, Liquid Smooth, etc... that is malicious?
My biggest concern is someone getting their hands on my gmail account credentials and banking info. I've searched and not seen this addressed anywhere. Aren't we putting a lot of faith into developers and groups we don't know anything about? We operate on the assumption the code is safe because everyone is using it, and the devs and groups have been around a long time.
Just wondering what thoughts people have on this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you think about it, all computer programs have enormous power. They can already read/write anything into non-restricted parts of your hard drive, or even erase it all (though this may take some time in which you can shut it down). Android has more restricted privileges (it has to tell you, upon installation, that it'll be given permission to read your sd card), but these are still highly general.
And a program with administrator/root privileges, can do literally anything.
A rom is basically like a rooted program, so, short of reading all the code and compiling it yourself, there's no way to be sure that it won't do literally anything.
That might not be the answer you want, but that's all there is to it. All you can hope to do is mitigate that risk by installing the bare minimum, most trusted of sources, and it's up to you to decide how much risk is too much.
Maybe anti-virus helps (I scan all apks), but it's a shot in the dark as far as I'm concerned.

crazeco said:
This might seem like a silly question, but does anyone here worry about there being backdoors or code in the custom Roms like Vicious JB, CM9 nightlies, Liquid Smooth, etc... that is malicious?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was recently an article on just this subject. I don't worry too much about it, I keep with what I regard as trusted ROMs. I don't bank on my phone, the worst you can do is buy some **** from amazon or eBay and my credit card keeps me safe from fraud, so I don't care too much.

You are right, these aren't the answers I would love to see!
Is the article mentioned the one on ZTE, or custom ROMs? Do you have a link?
Has there ever been a documented case of a popular custom ROM stealing login credentials?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I'd worry less about backdoors and more about test key signed apps making their way onto your system and stealing data.
A risk for many aosp Roms because they use test keys.

You can always download the cm9 source code yourself and compile it if your worried.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

The only ROM I'd be worried about is MIUI.

Yeah gotta watch out for dem chineses.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Honestly, it's a valid concern. I'm really not worried at all about such things on official ROMs - Carrier IQ was a slight worry but I wasn't really bothered. Monitoring any data I care about would put a company out of business. However, unofficial ROMs make me nervous.

I think your question can be answered best in Q&A where questions are posted
specifically this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1745289
Thanks
FNM

Why are there so few ROMs for N5x?

I recently purchased Oneplus 2 after my previous phone Oneplus One. I got sick at the rate of development of OPT and just order Nexus 5x and here too I'm seeing that there are very few custom ROMs. I'm wondering whether this phone too suffers from development restrictions as OPT? OPT has several proprietory drivers which are halting development. As I can see, OPO and Nexus 6p both have tons of Marshmallow based ROMs.
Are the developers yet to jump on this device? Or are there other issues? I have limited ROM building abilities and would try to build some popular ROMs once I get my hands on this device. Please share your knowledge.

I'm wondering the same thing. Development was awesome on hammerhead- I thought it would be the same with the 5X.

I'm surprised too.

Sorry to this noob qn but its been a while since i had toucher custom roms. What is the difference between original android development and android development? IIRC, OAD is for CM roms related whereas AD is for 3rd party customised.

ilikesamsung said:
Sorry to this noob qn but its been a while since i had toucher custom roms. What is the difference between original android development and android development? IIRC, OAD is for CM roms related whereas AD is for 3rd party customised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-5x/orig-development/guides-rules-posting-original-t3208283 explains the difference.
I see only about 25% more ROMs for the 6P than the 5X, I count 16 here. It is probably just that more developers went for the 6P with the larger size, front facing speakers and 3GB of RAM.

From what I gather, Google is hell bent on making android a flashoholic's nightmare. But there is no need to worry because of this huge developers' community. I'm sure there will be an alternative to Google's android.

gururoop said:
From what I gather, Google is hell bent on making android a flashoholic's nightmare. But there is no need to worry because of this huge developers' community. I'm sure there will be an alternative to Google's android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you share a bit of what your have gathered? Sources would be nice.
I'd actually like to hear from the ROM developers on this subject.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

gururoop said:
From what I gather, Google is hell bent on making android a flashoholic's nightmare. But there is no need to worry because of this huge developers' community. I'm sure there will be an alternative to Google's android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding me? That is such an incorrect statement. Other devices never have bootloaders that can be unlocked as easily as nexus devices or unlocking a bootloader on other devices will void your warranty.. Nexus devices have always been developer friendly have actually were always meant to be developer devices, not devices for the end user.
Hell they are more open that any other manufacturer. What device OEM do you know of that releases all rom source code? Kernel code all oems have to release, but not rom code. Why is it that aosp roms for other devices need to be hacked together to work right? Because the manufacturer does not release the binaries needed to do a proper build. Google releases these binaries for every nexus device so you can build the whole system from source without hacking things together to work. So your statement is totally false..
What phone do you know of that you can build the whole system and flash it to your phone and have it work? Besides nexus devices you really can't.. Not a rom released by OEM anyway.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

PiousInquisitor said:
Can you share a bit of what your have gathered? Sources would be nice.
I'd actually like to hear from the ROM developers on this subject.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
graffixnyc said:
Are you kidding me? That is such an incorrect statement. Other devices never have bootloaders that can be unlocked as easily as nexus devices or unlocking a bootloader on other devices will void your warranty.. Nexus devices have always been developer friendly have actually were always meant to be developer devices, not devices for the end user.
Hell they are more open that any other manufacturer. What device OEM do you know of that releases all rom source code? Kernel code all oems have to release, but not rom code. Why is it that aosp roms for other devices need to be hacked together to work right? Because the manufacturer does not release the binaries needed to do a proper build. Google releases these binaries for every nexus device so you can build the whole system from source without hacking things together to work. So your statement is totally false..
What phone do you know of that you can build the whole system and flash it to your phone and have it work? Besides nexus devices you really can't.. Not a rom released by OEM anyway.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Merely allowing bootloaders to be unlocked does not mean that Google is developer friendly. Now, look at the ugly warnings that pop up as soon as you unlock the bootloader of bullhead. Didn't happen when I used mako. And supporting developers doesn't mean only hardware, even if you look at software, rooting has become so difficult. Earlier, it was as simple as installing a custom recovery and flashing binaries. Now, its a long story. Moreover, as soon as you root Marshmallow, certain features such as Android Pay get screwed up (although I never use those features, have read a lot of complaints about this). Do you consider these moves developer friendly? I don't.

im thinking 6p was a better option for developers to buy meanwhile the 5x owned by consumers and those who want a smaller phone.
i was planning to unlock my bootloader right now but i realised i dont have a usb-c to usb cable so i can only charge it.
can you hide/remove this warning logo?
im pretty sure the roms will be ported over to each other in the new year

republicano said:
im thinking 6p was a better option for developers to buy meanwhile the 5x owned by consumers and those who want a smaller phone.
i was planning to unlock my bootloader right now but i realised i dont have a usb-c to usb cable so i can only charge it.
can you hide/remove this warning logo?
im pretty sure the roms will be ported over to each other in the new year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fortunately you can hide the ugly logo by flashing modified splash files. They can be found in this forum.

gururoop said:
Merely allowing bootloaders to be unlocked does not mean that Google is developer friendly. Now, look at the ugly warnings that pop up as soon as you unlock the bootloader of bullhead. Didn't happen when I used mako. And supporting developers doesn't mean only hardware, even if you look at software, rooting has become so difficult. Earlier, it was as simple as installing a custom recovery and flashing binaries. Now, its a long story. Moreover, as soon as you root Marshmallow, certain features such as Android Pay get screwed up (although I never use those features, have read a lot of complaints about this). Do you consider these moves developer friendly? I don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is just so wrong. On so many levels. But for one correction root is obtained with a single flash of one file and android pay works with it. Why do you post such nonsense?

gururoop said:
Merely allowing bootloaders to be unlocked does not mean that Google is developer friendly. Now, look at the ugly warnings that pop up as soon as you unlock the bootloader of bullhead. Didn't happen when I used mako. And supporting developers doesn't mean only hardware, even if you look at software, rooting has become so difficult. Earlier, it was as simple as installing a custom recovery and flashing binaries. Now, its a long story. Moreover, as soon as you root Marshmallow, certain features such as Android Pay get screwed up (although I never use those features, have read a lot of complaints about this). Do you consider these moves developer friendly? I don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Spoken like a true user. Google hates development so much it wrote a guide 'for carriers, OEMs, and developers' showing them how to build from source. (Hint: Check out 'Downloading and Building')
https://source.android.com/source/index.html
What you don't understand is ROM/app development and rooting are mutually exclusive. You can build and use a ROM and not have root. You can also root and not use a ROM. Your pathetic rant above is about root, not development.
You obviously don't understand security either. Google has been blasted for poor security in the past and are trying to change that. Hence monthly security updates. Root is a big 'ole backdoor. One that can be used by Uncle Sam, China, or your friendly foreign identity thief to steel your info. With root the user, the biggest security hole there is, is in control of who gets through the backdoor. Google doesn't trust us and nor do our banks. Its not hard to see why Android Pay doesn't work with us in control via root.
I don't blame Google and neither should you.

PiousInquisitor said:
LOL. Spoken like a true user. Google hates development so much it wrote a guide 'for carriers, OEMs, and developers' showing them how to build from source. (Hint: Check out 'Downloading and Building')
https://source.android.com/source/index.html
What you don't understand is ROM/app development and rooting are mutually exclusive. You can build and use a ROM and not have root. You can also root and not use a ROM. Your pathetic rant above is about root, not development.
You obviously don't understand security either. Google has been blasted for poor security in the past and are trying to change that. Hence monthly security updates. Root is a big 'ole backdoor. One that can be used by Uncle Sam, China, or your friendly foreign identity thief to steel your info. With root the user, the biggest security hole there is, is in control of who gets through the backdoor. Google doesn't trust us and nor do our banks. Its not hard to see why Android Pay doesn't work with us in control via root.
I don't blame Google and neither should you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He thinks a nexus is hard to root? Seriously? He has clearly never owned an HTC device. The HTC Rezound literally had to have its circuit board shorted out to be properly rooted and have an unlocked bootloader. lol "Tap these two points once, then 1.75 seconds later tap them again. Too slow and it will reboot, too fast and it won't do anything. Just right timing will unlock the bootloader." Those were basically our instructions. OH how about the HTC Thunderbolt!! Having to type like 30 lines (or copy paste VERY carefully) into command prompt. Oh, but you are right "Guru", nexus phones are so damn hard. HAHAHAHHA!!

hopesrequiem said:
He thinks a nexus is hard to root? Seriously? He has clearly never owned an HTC device. The HTC Rezound literally had to have its circuit board shorted out to be properly rooted and have an unlocked bootloader. lol "Tap these two points once, then 1.75 seconds later tap them again. Too slow and it will reboot, too fast and it won't do anything. Just right timing will unlock the bootloader." Those were basically our instructions. OH how about the HTC Thunderbolt!! Having to type like 30 lines (or copy paste VERY carefully) into command prompt. Oh, but you are right "Guru", nexus phones are so damn hard. HAHAHAHHA!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FYI I have owned HTC Sensation which required similar wire trick and M8 which required $25 to S-Off. But they where not developer devices. This developer devices tells (not warns) the users that the device iz corrupt because it's bootloader is unlocked. Worse than HTC which tells that warranty is void. But I guess it's difficult to explain it to you guys. So I concede. You are right, Google is the most dev friendly organisation, nexus is the most dev friendly line of hardware and you guys are the most pro devs out here.

gururoop said:
FYI I have owned HTC Sensation which required similar wire trick and M8 which required $25 to S-Off. But they where not developer devices. This developer devices tells (not warns) the users that the device iz corrupt because it's bootloader is unlocked. Worse than HTC which tells that warranty is void. But I guess it's difficult to explain it to you guys. So I concede. You are right, Google is the most dev friendly organisation, nexus is the most dev friendly line of hardware and you guys are the most pro devs out here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on bro, tell us how big bad Google is ruining your phone because they hold your hand through building Android from source. It would make my afternoon.
Obtaining root on Marshmallow was more difficult than other versions of Android, or at least that is what the root God Chainfire has said. No one is arguing that.
Anyway, I've got more to say on this that I'll post later. It's time to go enjoy the weather and the great outdoors.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

gururoop said:
<snip>This developer devices tells (not warns) the users that the device iz corrupt because it's bootloader is unlocked.<snip>.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Your device can't be checked for corruption..." That's what it says, not that the device is corrupt. If you want it checked please relock the bootloader is what is suggested. Come on just admit you were wrong and move on.

gururoop said:
Merely allowing bootloaders to be unlocked does not mean that Google is developer friendly. Now, look at the ugly warnings that pop up as soon as you unlock the bootloader of bullhead. Didn't happen when I used mako. And supporting developers doesn't mean only hardware, even if you look at software, rooting has become so difficult. Earlier, it was as simple as installing a custom recovery and flashing binaries. Now, its a long story. Moreover, as soon as you root Marshmallow, certain features such as Android Pay get screwed up (although I never use those features, have read a lot of complaints about this). Do you consider these moves developer friendly? I don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"mearly" allowing bootloaders to be unlocked allows a developer to do anything to the phone. You can port over Ubuntu touch to it if you wanted to because they release the binaries and such.. You can't do that so easily with other devices. So what there is a warning if you unlock the bootloader. It doesn't interfere with anything, it's just there to let say someone who isn't tech savvy with phones to know something is up. Moto has a unlocked bootloader warning as do many other manufacturers. And I have had no problems using android pay on my rooted 5x or 6p. I'm just rooted though with chainfires no system partition mod root method. I used android pay last night to get the 20 best buy gift card. Yes, they have made things more difficult from a root perspective but it's not impossible and think they needed to do this to make Android more secure. They seem to be wanting to make it more and more secure, which isn't a bad thing.. But that's not saying they are not developer friendly.. The fact that you can unlock the bootloader and pretty much flash any partition you want is not something you can do just by unlocking the bootloader. Look at HTC devices for example.. To be able to flash all the partitions you need s-off and can't do it by the traditional bootloader unlock. You have a device that you can unlock the bootloader, flash whatever you want, not lose your warranty unless you do something really stupid. Build the system from source, change the source.. That's not developer friendly!?! ? Come on..... What just because they make it harder to root now (which really isn't really that difficult if you know what you're doing which most seem to not) and they make it more secure make them not developer friendly? Again, what other phone do you know that you can take the source, change it, build it and have it work? Or port something like Ubuntu touch to it? You can't.. Other manufacturers just simply do not supply what is needed for developers to do this.. Google does supply this so developers could do this..
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Because it's only been out for 2 months. ROMs aren't built in a day, much like Rome.

ShishkaBerry said:
Because it's only been out for 2 months. ROMs aren't built in a day, much like Rome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha. Best answer
Skickat från min Nexus 5X via Tapatalk

How customizable is this phone?

Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!

gibawatts said:
Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming you have the Verizon model....Once you use Sunshine to S-Off this phone the world is your oyster. Great/robust dev community and help/support/guides to assist you through anything you want to do with your phone.
The combination of the above and that HTC makes what I think are the most gorgeous looking and well built phones...it's been a win win for me since my Thunderbolt lol

gibawatts said:
Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had a huge amount of devices, ( look at my sig and you'll see) and I've always come back to HTC, reason being is that they offer something a little different, but what's more they always have the most talented developers and the oldest serving, on XDA, Villain rom, etc, they always come up with the goods.
Not to mention that the root, unlocking of the bootloader and s-off (if you s-off) is reversible. Samsung is not, as it has an efuse chip as does the nexus too AFAIK.
There literally isn't anything you can't change on this device and with pretty much any other htc device, if you've had a htc before and gone on to something else, Sony or Sammy are good examples, you'll always be looking back over the fence, and when a new HTC comes out you'll just hate your current device, eg: I got rid of a six month old nexus 6P for this 10
Just unlock the bootloader, s-off if you must or want to, I believe that you can flash firmwares easier with it switched off, it's £20 so not great but it always works, install a custom recovery and flash away.
In terms of roms, Venom probably offers the most comprehensive list of tweaks and mods but LeeDroid is equally as good and as customizable, perhaps not with the length of venom tweaks but still great. Other roms I can guess are similar and when CM is completely fixed, well start seeing CM, AOSP and similar roms heading for us too.
In short, the answer to your question is a huge yes, I don't think I'll ever get another Samsung or Sony again, nothing wrong with them, they're just not for me and I'll miss HTC if I do.

Stripped, themed, ghostpeppered, and running like a bat out of hell....
.

bakemcbride21 said:
Great/robust dev community and help/support/guides to assist you through anything you want to do with your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope I can piggy-back off of this thread just a bit.
When you refer to the developer community for HTC, are you referring particularly to here on XDA-Developers, or in general everywhere? I'm thinking of getting an HTC 10, but I'm wondering the best/simplest way to keep it going with Android updates well past HTC's stated support period. I haven't done anything with my HTC Incredible S, but I'm looking to be a bit more proactive with my next phone. What are some of the more stable ROMs that you--or anyone else, for that matter--would recommend to keep this phone continually updated for years to come? Longevity is important to me.

SlowRain said:
I hope I can piggy-back off of this thread just a bit.
When you refer to the developer community for HTC, are you referring particularly to here on XDA-Developers, or in general everywhere? I'm thinking of getting an HTC 10, but I'm wondering the best/simplest way to keep it going with Android updates well past HTC's stated support period. I haven't done anything with my HTC Incredible S, but I'm looking to be a bit more proactive with my next phone. What are some of the more stable ROMs that you--or anyone else, for that matter--would recommend to keep this phone continually updated for years to come? Longevity is important to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Long time Samsung user here. I got my US unlocked HTC 10 a few months ago. Best phone I ever had. Would not even consider an S7 in comparison.
The two primary Sense-based Roms for the 10 are Viper and LeeDroid. I've tried both and prefer Viper. I think that would be your long-term solution. Get an unlocked 10 if you can afford to for maximum flexibility and choice of service providers. Unlock the bootloader, S-Off, and flash Viper. You can't go wrong in my opinion.
BTW, this is just a general discussion thread. Each Rom, Kernel, recovery, etc etc have their own dedicated threads where you'll find in-depth info.

Aurelius99 said:
The two primary Sense-based Roms for the 10 are Viper and LeeDroid.
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Click to collapse
Are there any inherent advantages of a Sense-based ROM in terms of stability or ease of installation? Sorry for such a pedestrian question, but is there anything as simple as good ol' Nexus-style vanilla Android, or is that something that's even too easy to be asking about?

Thanks guys, still considering the 10. Now I am between the 10, 6P and Pixel XL. The painful fact is that I am currently with no phone. When I went to return the Axon, there were no 10s in stock at the store. The wait for the Pixel is just killing me! And to worsen things a bit, I just ran into a 128 GB Nexus 6P. I am a real sucker for OLED screens you, know? That is why I still didn't buy the 10.

SlowRain said:
Are there any inherent advantages of a Sense-based ROM in terms of stability or ease of installation? Sorry for such a pedestrian question, but is there anything as simple as good ol' Nexus-style vanilla Android, or is that something that's even too easy to be asking about?
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Click to collapse
Gawd, I could never go back to stock. Most people want a custom Rom firstly to get rid of all the bloatware installed by their service providers. Apps you'll never use, sitting there taking up space and even running in the background. Then there is the customizing you can do to set up your phone just how you want it. However, HTC has promised us that they will be providing us with a Rom upgrade to Android 7 in a couple of months and that Rom may be nice as-is. Bottom line - if you want maximum control over your 10, go custom. If stock meets your needs stay with that.

Aurelius99 said:
Gawd, I could never go back to stock. Most people want a custom Rom firstly to get rid of all the bloatware installed by their service providers. Apps you'll never use, sitting there taking up space and even running in the background. Then there is the customizing you can do to set up your phone just how you want it. However, HTC has promised us that they will be providing us with a Rom upgrade to Android 7 in a couple of months and that Rom may be nice as-is. Bottom line - if you want maximum control over your 10, go custom. If stock meets your needs stay with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, I may not have been clear. I was asking about a Sense-based ROM vs. stock Android (not stock Sense). I'd like it as simple, stripped down, and Nexus-like as possible, but I don't know how much tinkering each modder does with their various ROMs. I also want a ROM from a modder who will support it down the road for several Android versions, but I seem to have an answer to that question already. What I don't understand yet is the likelihood of stock/vanilla Android running smoothly on the HTC 10. Is that what's being called AOSP, or is that something else entirely?
(For what it's worth, I'd be getting the international version, called the M10h, I believe.)

SlowRain said:
I'm sorry, I may not have been clear. I was asking about a Sense-based ROM vs. stock Android (not stock Sense). I'd like it as simple, stripped down, and Nexus-like as possible, but I don't know how much tinkering each modder does with their various ROMs. I also want a ROM from a modder who will support it down the road for several Android versions, but I seem to have an answer to that question already. What I don't understand yet is the likelihood of stock/vanilla Android running smoothly on the HTC 10. Is that what's being called AOSP, or is that something else entirely?
(For what it's worth, I'd be getting the international version, called the M10h, I believe.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AOSP is the Android Open Source Project. Yes, this is sometimes referred to as the "stock" Rom. Google provides the code base for the stock Rom. Various developers use this code base and then add their own code enhancements to produce an extended version of the stock Rom. Most custom Roms are Cyanogenmod-based. This is the company that has put their particular twist on the stock Rom. A Sense-based Rom is yet another enhanced version of the stock Rom. Both use the same AOSP code base and customize it in various ways and for various phones.
Some people actually do prefer the more standard stock Rom for various reasons. It is simpler and typically more robust for dealing with the limited and specific tasks it was designed for. A good custom Rom can be just as robust as stock in every way, but also allows the user to do much more with the phone. It can be overclocked to run much faster, have better audio, a highly customizable user interface, and so on.
Viper, on the Sense-based side, and Resurrection Remix on the Cyanogenmod-based side are both better than the stock Rom in my view and people using those Roms get many more updates to their Roms via the developers than stock Rom users do. Some developers are still producing custom Roms for the Samsung SII -- a very old phone that Samsung dropped support for years ago.
Check this out for the HTC 10:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-10/development/rom-21-02-viper10-1-0-0-tweaks-hub-t3379151

Aurelius99 said:
A Sense-based Rom is yet another enhanced version of the stock Rom. Both use the same AOSP code base and customize it in various ways and for various phones.
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Click to collapse
Can I assume a Sense-based ROM will have a better chance of everything working properly (ie. camera, NFC, audio, etc.) since it's starting off with something further down the fork in AOSP designed specifically for the HTC 10? Or am I misunderstanding how ROMs work?

SlowRain said:
Can I assume a Sense-based ROM will have a better chance of everything working properly (ie. camera, NFC, audio, etc.) since it's starting off with something further down the fork in AOSP designed specifically for the HTC 10? Or am I misunderstanding how ROMs work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, you're really doing your research.
Yes, a sense based ROM is less likely to have bugs, however bugs are usually listed in the OP of every rom thread. A matured AOSP ROM won't have anything broken, but things may not work as well or as intended by HTC.
I think sense based is the way to go with this device, lots of good features HTC has developed that work well with the phone like the camera application and blinkfeed. Not to mention the polished look of the phone in general and the underrated theme store, it just works well together. You'd lose all of that with AOSP, not so much key features not working.

BadUsername said:
Haha, you're really doing your research.
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Click to collapse
Yes. It's my most annoying characteristic, according to my wife. Now I just have to find a developer who keeps things simple & stable, and who will support it until 2021.
Thanks for your replies. And I apologize to gibawatts for hijacking this thread a bit. I hope it was still useful for you, too.

Did you guys decide?
It's still $150 off, which assisted me in my decision to go from the Nexus 5 to the htc 10 (and a nice, even doubling for us OCD types).
My short answer: the htc 10 is ever-so-slightly less customisable than the Nexus 5; I've installed everything on it that I had on the Nexus (SuperSU, Xposed, Gravitybox, Xprivacy, AdAway, etc.). N-ify works on it.
My only "issue" so far is that GravityBox can't remove the Calculator and Extreme Power Saver quicktile htc put there..real fine points here. (I've only had the thing 2 days, so there may be more but no show-stoppers for a purist like me). Sense 8 is more like an alternative launcher than an overhaul like TouchWiz or old versions of Sense. Wife likes it (coming from her N5/NovaLauncher) and I'm giving it a whirl.
Manual firmware updates would be the only caveat AFAICT but that is still better than what I had with N5: OTAs broke and I just never installed them due to lack of interest...not a habit I want to carry with me, however. My point being that the Nexus 5 was actually more of a hassle to me to update than what this seems like it would be (though I've not tested it yet but there's much discussion on the procedure here).
Wife is attached to OLED (SIII had a wonderful display) but she likes the htc 10 display and did not like the N5 display.

I love the feedback you guys got/gave here. This here is a model XDA thread.
I would just like to add that HTC's Sense ROM is quite bare-boned compared to other non-Nexus OEMs. Compared to the Axon, it'll look almost like a Nexus device.
Everyone else pretty much covered the other important things. I'd like to point out that CM/AOSP/Vanilla ROMs for the HTC 10 are still a bit down the road and they still need quite a bit of work, so when you get it, expect to either stay with Sense, or Sense-based custom ROMs for at least the next few months. No complaints on that from my side. Even if you do eventually flash CM/AOSP/Vanilla ROMs, I'll wager that you'll end up downloading some of HTC's apps, like Camera, Gallery, and Music. They blow away vanilla Android apps and 3rd party alternatives.

samisax said:
Compared to the Axon,...
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ZTE being mod-hostile turned me off to them; they have to establish a solid history of unlock/mod-friendliness for me to even look at them. (No, a press release stating that they would, in the future, answer questions from CyanogenMod folks to develop their ROM doesn't win me over in any way whatsoever.)
I surmised that the OnePlus 3 was too customised to be considered a Nexus spiritual successor (it was the phone I wanted to like/buy). Really, they only need to make good hardware and just use already-made AOSP and spend dev time getting drivers and such primo to have a winner (and with lower overhead) rather than trying to reinvent the wheel that nobody will want. It's like they're trying to sorta be Nexus and sorta be Sense/TouchWiz/et al but is there really a market for that? Is there really no market for Nexus? (I dunno...the Pixel thing has me befuddled and the no-more-Nexus thing has me ferhoodled.)
So, yeah, I'm liking the htc 10, which, being both funny and sad, I didn't even look at. My wife mentioned it and the $150 off, so we took a look and got'em. (I was still soured by my Evo 3D experience that led me to use then-Best Buy's 30-day return policy)
One more tid-bit I neglected to mention earlier: I'm glad I got the unlocked/dev version...no issue getting official RUUs all official-like, officially. I don't ever want to deal with "carrier" stuff.
P.S. Good to know about the camera, gallery, and music apps. Those are important to my wife (I'm happy with those being "functional" but also happy to just have the same software between us..easier to maintain and to answer her questions).

Building Rom from Source for Redmi Note 9/10X Merlin

Hello guys, I was planning to build a rom from source so that we can start integrating different custom roms for our devices. I have a rig with good specs and a good internet connection too. What roms do you suggest to build?
I was kinda planning to build anything that's possible since our Device Tree and Vendor Blobs is now available. I think this is a good opportunity.
Kindly leave some suggestions, I'm just a newbie.

CrDroid, Pixel Experience and Ressurection Remix.

But, why custom?
I really prefer the original stock ROM and keep the system unchanged.
So I love magisk, because I can root without having to modify the system.
Together, Xposed, XprivacyLua, Adblocker and TitaniumBackup are all perfectly fine.

VD171 said:
But, why custom?
I really prefer the original stock ROM and keep the system unchanged.
So I love magisk, because I can root without having to modify the system.
Together, Xposed, XprivacyLua, Adblocker and TitaniumBackup are all perfectly fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MIUI lag like crap and drains battery crazy, at least on my phone.

jjgvv said:
MIUI lag like crap and drains battery crazy, at least on my phone.
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Click to collapse
If an O.S. developed by many, many people who are paid to develop this, has lags,
why won't an O.S. developed by one or two people have lags too?
If your battery is discharging quickly, just track battery usage and see what's draining excessively.

VD171 said:
If an O.S. developed by many, many people who are paid to develop this, has lags,
why won't an O.S. developed by one or two people have lags too?
If your battery is discharging quickly, just track battery usage and see what's draining excessively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmmm I must have bought a fake Device with a cheap 3rd party battery and Dual core 2012 MTK processor, or the many, many people are hired mainly not to develop the OS, but hired for inserting pernament adware and bloatware in the Device so that they could earn extra money.

jjgvv said:
hmmm I must have bought a fake Device with a cheap 3rd party battery and Dual core 2012 MTK processor, or the many, many people are hired mainly not to develop the OS, but hired for inserting pernament adware and bloatware in the Device so that they could earn extra money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably you must to buy an iphone.

VD171 said:
Probably you must to buy an iphone.
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Click to collapse
I kind of hate apple Locked crap. The system updates destroys the nice flagship, and if you do not update, they will greet you by not allowing you to install any app.
Samsung is nice for me, but if you hate Samsung, I have nothing to say.

VD171 said:
But, why custom?
I really prefer the original stock ROM and keep the system unchanged.
So I love magisk, because I can root without having to modify the system.
Together, Xposed, XprivacyLua, Adblocker and TitaniumBackup are all perfectly fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you've never used Custom roms.
Custom roms perform better than MIUI, No bloatware by default and they have a better UI.

Communos said:
I guess you've never used Custom roms.
Custom roms perform better than MIUI, No bloatware by default and they have a better UI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The computer science of Xiaomi devs should be teached by their PE or Music teacher. Even DIY roms are better than MIUI.

That's the issue with Xiaomi, good hardware, poor software. They are able to provide cheap smartphones only due to earning money from ads in the softwares. Let's see development for Note 9 is going good now, almost every bug is fixed and device tree is stable, forums for note 9 should be filled with roms within time.

cleverdmasoy said:
Hello guys, I was planning to build a rom from source so that we can start integrating different custom roms for our devices. I have a rig with good specs and a good internet connection too. What roms do you suggest to build?
I was kinda planning to build anything that's possible since our Device Tree and Vendor Blobs is now available. I think this is a good opportunity.
Kindly leave some suggestions, I'm just a newbie.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give ShapeshiftOS and FluidOS a try, new roms, Quite good.

Communos said:
I guess you've never used Custom roms.
Custom roms perform better than MIUI, No bloatware by default and they have a better UI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't like to waste my time with not trusted things.
If you don't like MIUI, certainly you should not buy a Xiaomi phone.
I prefer systemless modifications.
If you have enough time for wasting, it is not my problem.

VD171 said:
I don't like to waste my time with not trusted things.
If you don't like MIUI, certainly you should not buy a Xiaomi phone.
I prefer systemless modifications.
If you have enough time for wasting, it is not my problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We aren't expressing what we like or what we don't, We're telling a man what to build. So please if you don't like custom roms, you may leave this thread.
Talking about "not trusted" , Custom roms are better in terms of privacy too and are trusted.
Saying a custom rom can't be trusted is one of the dumbest thing you could say on a tech platform with tons of custom roms threads.

VD171 said:
I don't like to waste my time with not trusted things.
If you don't like MIUI, certainly you should not buy a Xiaomi phone.
I prefer systemless modifications.
If you have enough time for wasting, it is not my problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you should not, and never come to this thread as we are talking about custom roms, and talking that you love to stay on MIUI will be a waste of time.

Communos said:
We aren't expressing what we like or what we don't, We're telling a man what to build. So please if you don't like custom roms, you may leave this thread.
Talking about "not trusted" , Custom roms are better in terms of privacy too and are trusted.
Saying a custom rom can't be trusted is one of the dumbest thing you could say on a tech platform with tons of custom roms threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
VD171 said:
I don't like to waste my time with not trusted things.
If you don't like MIUI, certainly you should not buy a Xiaomi phone.
I prefer systemless modifications.
If you have enough time for wasting, it is not my problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are thousands, if not millions, of people using custom roms on a Xiaomi phone and not a single one said their phones are hacked due to the custom rom. To say the least, Even MIUI is not close to being trusted as soon as you unlocked the bootloader.

Communos said:
That's the issue with Xiaomi, good hardware, poor software. They are able to provide cheap smartphones only due to earning money from ads in the softwares. Let's see development for Note 9 is going good now, almost every bug is fixed and device tree is stable, forums for note 9 should be filled with roms within time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jjgvv said:
Then you should not, and never come to this thread as we are talking about custom roms, and persuading people to stay on MIUI crap will be a waste of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who is trying to persuad anybody ?
Who cares for what O.S. you will use ?
I'm givin my opinion.
If you don't like my opinion, well, who cares ?

VD171 said:
Who is trying to persuad anybody ?
Who cares for what O.S. you will use ?
I'm givin my opinion.
If you don't like my opinion, well, who cares ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. We are off topic here. Stop the avalanche. If that hurts, I will delete it.

Communos said:
We aren't expressing what we like or what we don't, We're telling a man what to build. So please if you don't like custom roms, you may leave this thread.
Talking about "not trusted" , Custom roms are better in terms of privacy too and are trusted.
Saying a custom rom can't be trusted is one of the dumbest thing you could say on a tech platform with tons of custom roms threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xiaomi builded the phone. So, I trust on Xiaomi O.S.
Anybody can build an O.S., so I prefer to keep with Xiaomi O.S.
If you prefer to use an O.S. builded by anybody that will never update it, well, it is your problem.
I prefer to keep with original stock rom.
It is my opinion.

VD171 said:
Xiaomi builded the phone. So, I trust on Xiaomi O.S.
Anybody can build an O.S., so I prefer to keep with Xiaomi O.S.
If you prefer to use an O.S. builded by anybody that will never update it, well, it is your problem.
I prefer to keep with original stock rom.
It is my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Custom roms are regularly updated, they have maintainers for specific devices who update the rom regularly, with security patches. Please do not speak of something which you don't know of.
Any more replies to this will be ignored, Since you clearly don't know what you're talking about and this is going OFF-TOPIC.