Related
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of view that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
I recently looked at a thread where someone asked a question that was answered somewhere else. Three members jumped on the bandwagon to flame to poor sod. Another member jumped in to defend the fact that people should be free to ask questions.
In the end, there were 12 replies to the question that, in that thread, was never actually answered.
12 posts just to discuss the relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered.
Most forums I have been a member of have some very strict views on staying on topic. This reduces the flaming which seems to do more 'cluttering' damage that questions that have been already answered.
So if I have a question, I will STF only to find 42,000 topics on the same thing that don't actually answer anything, but discuss the "relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered".
If the members, who should know better, stayed on topic then people would be able to readily identify the good threads more easily and not feel it nessesary to ask again... and again... and again.
So... Instead of flaming n00b questions that have allegedly been answered before, why don't the members of this forum look in the mirror and...
STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Note that I have posted this where I think this kind of discussion belongs... (i.e. not in any of the threads that actually deal with meaningfull discussions about phones).
Let the flames begin...
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
BaggyG said:
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of few that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
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STFU noob.
ok, I jest... but seriously, it did reach breaking point and something had to give... fortunately it's unwinding itself now.
Also to be fair to long time members though, every time a new OS version is out, the place is flooded with n00bs that usually don't even take the time to look at the threads presend on the same damn page.
It's beyond lazy, it's just ignorant to expect people to wipe their arse for them even if the toilet roll is right there in front of them.
Sometimes help is warranted and they get flamed, but when upgrading these expensive devices, they should take the time to understand more about it
Perhaps we should have an aptitude test before allowing access to the forums hehe.
shogunmark said:
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
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Gee... Hermes forum? How'd ya guess
I tried STF for a thread on this, but couldn't decide what to search on: n00b? Flame? Agro? Dummy spit? Ignorant?... So many choices
But okay... I've had my say so I'll pull my head in and get back to my life.
By the way... Great forum and wiki. Very helpful and informative.
Baggy
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
While I think it's important to encourage all members (yes I've seen a few senior members asking things that have been previously discussed in the same thread) I think the whole attitude about it is wrong. There's really no need to get all pissy about it, and much less calling people "noob". Really someone that goes off on a noob rant can't have much of a life in my opinion. We are all busy -some more then others- and we really don't want to waste time answering redundant questions, but isn't going off on someone and calling them a noob an even worst usage of our valuable time? besides..... who really gives a rats ass about getting called a noob.
In closing, if you feel a noob is bothering you, ignore him and he might eventually get the point, or behave like a human beign and help the guy out. However, as BaggyG says don't turn the damn thread into a name calling fiasko. One 20 word post asking a question is not as irritating as a 500 word essay on the stupidness of noobs.
GAMBIT999 said:
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
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since i dont frequent the prophet forum's and im not sure who our active mod(s) are for prophet, if you would let me know what threads need to be moderated i will be more than happy to flex my muscle in there.
and actually on that note....
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
shogunmark said:
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
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Just wondering if it would be possible to put an announcement or sticky on each forum identifying the mods for that particular forum.
Just a though...
Baggy
Damn. I saw the title and thought "Man, that'd be fun!" and everyone in here is complaining about it? (joking).
Seriously though it is a problem. But everyone here can do something about stopping it. I mean, if you know there is a solution to the question they asked and it's somewhere else in the forums, give them a link and tell them how to find these answers. If you don't know exactly where it is, tell them what forum to search. At the very least, say nothing. When people only read the last page of a thread it is very annoying but those are best ignored. There is absolutely no need to publicly flame someone and waste even more space on a thread.
I'm currently working on a bug tracking system for new roms so hopefully that will reduce a lot of these kind of questions by keeping answers with the questions and moderators and chef's being able to easily delete repeated posts.
It's just a bit of common courtesy which is as sadly lacking as common sense at the moment unfortunately.
Maz
http://maz.net.au/
one of the other things is the sheer VOLUME of replies, in the Hermes section, there are over 250 replies in a couple of threads! not meaning to sound lazy, but that is a hell of a lot!!!
of corse i'm reading them and reading repeat after repeat of questions that are the same.
Its great when the #1 topic poster goes through the posts and copies soloutions to problems and presents it in the 1st post!
hmm think thats covered just about everything on my mind
*gets flamethrower out*
Flamin' time =D
kiddin'
Y'all have to admit. Some of the "senior" members here have this god complex.
Once they manage to have their devices run unofficial stuff - even if it isn't their own work, and they were just following simple instructions, which don't really take much work once you get down to it - they think it gives them every right to go Bastard Operator From Hell to just about anyone else.
I guess it's pretty normal for unofficial channels, innit - I see the same kind of folks in emulation and driver forums. Not to mention linux and hardware boards. But some of the "ascended" here ought to remember that they didn't start as gods, and may not really be that much of a "god" after all.
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
No, dozen responses that don't answer the question are not the solution, but hey everyone needs to went somehow.
levenum said:
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
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I agree. There's WAAAAYY too much "how do I. . ." posts in the forums when all the information is already there for READING. More stickys at the top of the forums won't solve the problem, because the ones that are there WITH the information are not being read by the noobs even now.
It's really sad for me to see the direction that this board has taken in the past year. When I first registered, it was an AWESOME site with LOTS of users developing useful tools and apps to make these devices even better . . . a place to share ideas and to try out the cooked ROMs.
Then, we had an influx of new users about 6 months ago that simply couldn't -- or WOULDN'T -- search for answers before posting. Now, the board is so bloated with those useless posts/threads that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
While I still come here daily to check the General section and the Wizard section, I don't do much posting and only read the threads of general interest to me. I'll help where I can on answering questions -- but only if they haven't already been asked a gazillion times before. I still look for the tools and apps from the developers here to keep tweaking my phone to get the absolute MOST out of it, and I've flashed more ROMs from this site than Quaker's got oats. -- and all without asking "how do I. . ." or "I've bricked my phone. . . " because I READ THE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!!!
It's really that simple. All you have to do is READ and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS -- step by step. Don't skip a step or leave anything out, and it works!!!
that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
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As much as I see your point, I have only 2 words to say. "Vicious Cycle".
I'm also a noob but i dont care because i know my options, first do a search ( which by the way is pratically unusable, but not only here all foruns have this problem), but in a community so big it´s comprehensive cause sometimes the answer to the problem is two threads bellow or in the next page, but no let´s open another thread asking the same thing, and i know that such attitude will lead to saturation of the older members.
The answer is simple if someone is in the mood answer if not leave it, until the users realize their options to search for things this will never end.
I'm glad to be here because above all it's a learning place for the ones who enjoy this platform and the ones who just like to know about varied stuff.
Cheers and have a nice weekend
yes thanks everyone for all thr help and advice. Keep it up!
Peace out
Registration fees
To alleviate the amount of worthless posts and to give something back to those that dedicate so much time and effort to this forum (rom cookers, admins and mods) why dont we add a registration fee to this forum?
Just a thought, but I would happily pay an annual fee of 20 eur / 15 GBP for this forum.
Searching
I think that quite a lot of the problem is with how difficult it is to get answers out of the forum search facility if you're not used to it.
Could it be possible to add a dumb-ass version that's the default?
There have been no end of times in the past when i've been searching for info on upgrading and I have to trawl through hundreds of irrelevant posts (most of them telling people to go to other posts that don't have the right info on them).
Also, back in the day there was a lot more info on the wiki section relating to the upgrading/modding etc but now (understandably given the number of devices available) the information only seems to be in the forums.
I like the idea of having a sticky in each thread listing useful articles on common topics. I bet no one will bother to read them though.
I still think my library illustration I gave over at TC stills says it best.
We all know the library is full of info on so many things you could want to know. And we all know what's expected of us in a library; go find the book on the subject. If you have trouble finding the answer, then ask your question.
I think where so many go wrong is thinking that they can just walk in to the library and start asking questions from whoever just happens to be there, rather than first trying to find the answer for themselves in the variety of books available.
And what's wrong with someone who at first was a noob - asking repeated questions - and then learning what's expected of them, and then expecting the same from others? You got told to be quiet in the library, at first you were offended, and then began to realize the benefit, and then inturn expect the same from others.
I really don't expect people to figure it out. Call me a pessimist or call me a realist.
Oh, by-the-way, have you noticed that this kind of topic always results in long, drawn-out posts?
Let me start by saying that this is just a moan thread, and I don't ask or expect that anything comes from it other than me getting something off my chest and seeing what others think.
I'm a very regular reader and contributor in the HD2 forum, as I have been for over a year now. I like the fact that it's such a busy forum as this obviously means we have a larger resource pool and get answers to issues a lot quicker than a more sparsely populated forum. There is, however, a down-side to this as well. More people does mean more help, but it also means more idiots.
Unfortunately, there's a growing gang of members in the HD2 forum that seem to thrive on posts such as...
"Search for the answer, *****"
or...
"Are you a total retard?"
Now I know that some people ask what a lot of us feel are dumb questions, and a LOT of people are guilty of posting questions without searching thoroughly first, therefore repeating threads, but it seems to be becoming a sport to deal with them with stronger and stronger animosity.
I personally have been guilty of posting "This is the wrong forum" or "This has been answered - please search", but the recent number of similar posts has made me rethink the situation.
First of all, just insulting someone is point-blank out-of-order, and I usually tend to report such posts and hope the mods agree and deal with the individual in question. So that's that done. Now we're left with the "already answered" posts.
This is all hypothetical, so don't do the following search and tell me I was wrong, okay
Say I searched for "bluetooth android not working" and didn't find anything that suited my situation and decided to open a thread. I start one called "bluetooth android not working" and explain my problem. UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answer like a million times. Use the search function"
Now let's go 2 weeks into the future when someone else has the exact same problem. They type into the search "bluetooth android not working" and they find my thread. "Great!" they think, till they read the thread. It's of no use to them whatsoever. So they start a new thread. Guess what - UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answered a million times! I'm getting sick of telling people to search!!!"
This happens every 2 weeks, with different users having the same problems and not finding a solution, therefore posting a new thread.
Okay. Here I have to say that none of the above users searched well enough - that is a valid point, and cannot be changed. By the time they start a new thread it's too late to simply tell them this.
But now, 6 months down the line, we have 12 threads that are titled "bluetooth android not working", and not one of them has an actual answer in it. By this point, the forum is becoming pretty pointless.
All it would take is for Mr.Genius-at-searching UserXXX to have searched, as he claims is easy to do, find a link and then post whatever he wants, with the link at the end of it...
"Here's a link, you **** tard. Learn to search. I can do it, so I have the right to tell you to do it. Want proof I can search? Here it is...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/noonardfoundananswer.php"
Basically, people giving it "do a search if you want answers" should help out new users in doing so. Do a search and maybe tell them what your search criteria was. Maybe they didn't know what NAND was when they were asking about flashing Android to replace WM6.5. Maybe they misspelt "blootueth". They need help, not an arrogant waste of space that generates just as much garbage post in the forum, but with an added side-dish of anger.
Finally, I know that we shouldn't spoon-feed people, as they will never learn to do things themselves. What I am suggesting is that if someone knows how to do something and they find someone who clearly doesn't, then they should help them, rather than just act like an idiot.
Phew. Rant over
Edit: Incidentally, apologies to those who've pointed out that it's not just the HD2 forums that are like this. I didn't mean to imply that they're the only place it happens. I just can't talk from experience for any of the other forums.
Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave
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Thanks for the comments Dave. Glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks like this.
I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
I really do not mind helping people but what I cant stand is lazyness. Its one thing been new to teh subject and not knowing something and then asking for help but its another to simply not even bother checking a forum stickies or at least doing a simple search before creating a topic that has already been created.
On some occasions its because the subject is a hard one to search and filter out but on allot of occasions you know its simply because they have not bothered and thought they would just create a topic and let other people do work for them, That is what I cant stand.
Although I have stopped been really abrupt I will still not answer these people but instead choose to make sure they are aware that its not on.
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.
Completely agree with what the OP is trying to say.
TheATHEiST said:
I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
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Are the from people you helped, or from people who liked your quips? (j/k)
TheATHEiST said:
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.
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I think the point John is making, is that the unhelpful replies limit users ability to search. For example, searching for "Help Flashing Evo" will find threads with the answer "Use Search", (recursion ) hence annoying the user and causing them to post instead of carrying on.
Users who don't bother reading/searching are (and probably always will be) a problem, hence svetius's change requiring 10 post to use Development forums; we need to find more efficient ways to help them
Dave
thank you very much!!! i have been thinking about this topic a long by myself, but i didnt dare to mention it with my low post counter.
I got my HD2 only 1 month ago and its my first WM device. I am very good with all technical devices, but it was still very hard for me to find the right answers.
As i just bricked my nokia phone during an update i wanted to make sure to not brick my HD2..
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.
oida_oida said:
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.
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The guides and the wikis + plethora of resources are already in place especially for establishes devices like the Leo. The only issues is the "newer" crowd is lazy and does not search and hence hundreds of threads asking questions to which answers have already been mentioned sometime somewhere on the forum. That's not the only issue- the problem is that these newer people won't be patient or even post in the correct place.
For eg. I have seen threads about Android development being posted in Win D&H.
We have to live & deal with it, it's a side effect of growth and progress.
JM2C's.
There seems to be a significant amount of animosity of late in all forums - not just HD2. I'm not certain as to why this is, all I do know is that I find unacceptable. As moderators, we spend more time cleaning up flame & troll posts than working on our own community contributions.
My observations:
XDA is about bringing together folks who have similar passions about mobile technology. As such, I expect a certain degree of maturity and professionalism from all members during their "stay" on this forum.
Responses that provide helpful and constructive information as opposed to "use the search", "try Google", "it's broken", "fix it", etc. help guide the thread back to topic. Here's a few examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9929554&postcount=4
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10749020&postcount=7
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10097254&postcount=22
There is absolutely no reason to respond in a rude tone, make someone feel stupid, or disrespect a member trying to offer something back to the community ... it is not constructive and serves no purpose. Members are never forced to frequent a thread on this forum and as previously stated, members should choose to move on instead of posting inflammatory comments.
Shortly after the launch of a well advertised mobile device, there is an influx of new members. Most all carriers and device manufacturers send their customers to XDA for technical assistance. Place a call to your carrier technical support department, it won't take long before the support representative instructs you to: "check out XDA, they have tons of information on how to fix that ...".
Most of newcomers who frequent the site are under the misconception that XDA is an extension of their carrier technical support department. This becomes apparent when I read posts complaining about issues with features or demanding an answer to their problem. As most of these newcomers are less technical, they lack the expertise required to assess the problem and determine the correct terminology to use in a search.
The current consumer model is not conducive to holding carrier and device manufacturers accountable. The current marketing paradigm is about convenience and how the one device that "does it all" is here. Most consumers buy into the paradigm and spend little to no time researching before the purchase. Once the device is purchased and fails to meet expectations, they simply go out and purchase something else.
vBulletin Search is horrible and unless one has a PhD in XDA Google Search, the likelihood of finding a meaningful answer in a billion threads is well ... challenging at best.
There are other observations that I have made; but the ones above are IMHO, some of the key issues and why I prefer to take a less aggressive approach when moderating newcomer posts.
Regards,
Those observations are very accurate and sums up the issue well, Hilaireg.
Thanks to all for giving your two cents on this rather important issue. The problems that we currently face are a product of people not having a sense of community. As hilaireg stated, many come here for a "quick fix" simply because the CSR at their company had no idea what to do and decided to direct you here to see if maybe you could fix the issue yourself.
Admittedly, there are search engines that are somewhat better than vB's, but the point that the OP is making is 100% dead on target. By playing "smarta$$" and replying "search, you n00b" instead of providing any meaningful reply will do nothing else than dilute the results of your search. Having said this, people complaining that the search does not work, 8 times out of 10, are expecting the right answer to pop up in the first result from the thread, and will probably give up if by the second or third link they have not found anything. Patience is a virtue, and people looking for knowledge should expect for this to come at the price of a little effort.
I went from a $10 clamshell dumdum phone for 6 years, whambang straght into my Leo. I am over 36 & under 38 years old.
It took me 3 months of fumbling around getting peeved over constant resetting and crashes.
Not once did I bother anyone here with a question that with a bit of hands on do-it-yourself would eventually learn on my own.
However, I had Tmo tech. on speed dial...
I am not new to the forum game though...check my thread "Throttled". lol.
anywho, my phone will remain stock with tweaks, skins, and sweet theme action.
This is an awesome piece of awesome, but NOT for the severely impatient or timid.
Thank you XDA for doing the absolute maximum in making my leo purrrr!!!!
and moan threads are for sissies btw...lol.
@ hilaireg & egzthunder1
I understand and agree to some extent your points but the fact of the matter is that something really needs to be done to halt or slow down the amount of dupe posts or other that are polluting/diluting the forum.
I'm going to be honest I dont really have any problems using vB search and usally find the info I need. PLUS much rather find the info myself because it also makes me learn other stuff in process that I may need in future that I wouldnt usually learn if I had just gone and asked somebody for specific info.
Here are the steps I take to find the relevant info...
Check stickies
Check latest topics
Use search function (topic titles)
Use search function (topic content)
Then if I dont find any info I want I begin to start a new thread and take note of the "similar threads" function before posting. If all else fails I use google.
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
I really think that we need to have a 100 post limit on the dev section this will reduce by allot the amount of spam we get, maybe not specifically for replying to topics but certainly for creating them. And also maybe a FAQ sticky in each Q&A forum with links to most asked ones.
TheATHEiST said:
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
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The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
There are solutions:
1) the OPs start updating their original posts with solutions to outstanding problems. The search engine is only as good as the queries being put into it, and as more "SEARCH DA TRED NEB3!!!" responses fill the thread, that makes actually finding the solution all the more difficult.
2) Regulars stop flaming the newbies. When I first started posting here I got a number of @ss**** responses to reasonable questions. If regulars behave like that, what type of newbs do you think you're attracting?
Lets not make this a 'he said/she said' or a pointing-fingers thread.
For a solution to the problem at hand, when we see such behavior, we can easily rectify it - as the OP stated - by posting the answer to questions instead of telling the person to search for the answer.
Now this does also bring a 'double-edge' scenario: This may give the n00bs the idea that it is okay to post a question without searching. But this is already happening.
So if we at least cut the amount of posts about the same topic down, there will be less of what bothers the senior members. And we won't have to suggest 'Search the forums for the answer.'
As a possible-soon-to-be-moderator of the Herald forums, I promise to do this myself. Hopefully, we can all agree to do the same as Senior Members of this community. I also don't expect anyone who has less than a hundred posts to do this, but, hopefully a trend will catch on.
apallohadas said:
The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
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Hey I didnt say they was the only problem, hence "99%".
If we keep re-iterating the same answers we are just going round in circles. The ONLY way to solve this is to somehow halt/slow them from asking the same repeat questions in first place, not just keep providing the answers every time they decide to be lazy and ask the same question and not just that they also ask them by creating a topic in the wrong places.
It's not just the HD2 forum, it's the same in the Desire one too (and yes, I'm guilty of a bit of flaming but some people just ask EXTREMELY dumb questions and even when you answer continue to ignore you so they deserve it)
Rule 1 of the forum is to search and for those who haven't even done that they deserve it too. But to those who say they've actually tried and not found anything I'll try and be helpful
These people just need to learn the proper way to ask a question. If you want a response from the power-hungry people who reply with insults, you must phrase it properly.
Instead of saying: "How do you get bluetooth working in Android NAND?"
They need to say: "Android on the HD2 SUCKS because bluetooth doesn't work right!"
What you will then see is these jerks flocking to prove the OP wrong, all while answering his question. 90% of the time, it works every time.
But if we do keep reiterating the answers to properly asked questions, that makes the search engine more useful for those that do use it. The answer doesn't get buried in 'you suk n00b' responses.
If a person feels they can't respond without insults, then they should have the self control not to respond right?
IMO the ones with knowledge need self control and should control their temper; and be helping ( luckily for us most are ).
And the n00bs need to know the forum decorum and manners better.
And the minimum posts requirement to post in dev. section is a small but very important step in the right direction, I recall when I signed up on XDA for months I was just reading and posting. And posted only in the Q&A threads or threads related to fashing/ROMs ( when I needed help with that); but these days the people won't have the patience to do that.
Either we need to vomit it out on them or somehow teach them the old school method of search + posting on right threads/forums.
Hey all,
Just curious - are there any tutorials anywhere that walk you through building your own ROM for the EVO from the AOSP project? I'd like to get into building my own so that I don't have to rely on other's updates, etc.
Thanks!
Ricky
**CLICK HERE** for the search feature
Concordium said:
**CLICK HERE** for the search feature
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously? Does everyone need to include the line, "I've already tried searching." in the original post so that an absolutely unnecessary and obvious answer isn't the first one posted? If so, then..
I've already tried searching.
I continue to come up with bull**** posts about building AOSP for other phones. I've searched all morning and haven't come up with anything, hence, the creation of the thread. Thanks for attempting to be a smartass, though.
UndeadCircus said:
Seriously? Does everyone need to include the line, "I've already tried searching." in the original post so that an absolutely unnecessary and obvious answer isn't the first one posted? If so, then..
I've already tried searching.
I continue to come up with bull**** posts about building AOSP for other phones. I've searched all morning and haven't come up with anything, hence, the creation of the thread. Thanks for attempting to be a smartass, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes, it would help that we know you've already searched. Forgive me for seeing that the vast majority of people who post questions do so without searching and not knowing that you, miraculously, were not amongst said majority. Thanks for succeeding at being an ungrateful prick.
And just an FYI, seeing as how you apparently have no experience on the topic, at least that's what your poorly specified post implied, you would be able to learn a lot about the process of creating your own ROM from the search results I posted. Just because it doesn't say "HTC Evo" on it doesn't mean there is no experience or wisdom to be gained from it. Try doing what the rest of us do. Read what resources are available and then start experimenting with it until you can find someone who can give more specific direction. There will be difference between phones but you can still get the basis for working with Android based systems. Otherwise, we'll be seeing another thread like this from you when you get a new phone. I tried to help as best I could. I'm sorry it wasn't to your satisfaction.
Concordium said:
Actually yes, it would help that we know you've already searched. Forgive me for seeing that the vast majority of people who post questions do so without searching and not knowing that you, miraculously, were not amongst said majority. Thanks for succeeding at being an ungrateful prick.
And just an FYI, seeing as how you apparently have no experience on the topic, at least that's what your poorly specified post implied, you would be able to learn a lot about the process of creating your own ROM from the search results I posted. Just because it doesn't say "HTC Evo" on it doesn't mean there is no experience or wisdom to be gained from it. Try doing what the rest of us do. Read what resources are available and then start experimenting with it until you can find someone who can give more specific direction. There will be difference between phones but you can still get the basis for working with Android based systems. Otherwise, we'll be seeing another thread like this from you when you get a new phone. I tried to help as best I could. I'm sorry it wasn't to your satisfaction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was actually far from being satisfactory. Forgive me, but why in the holy hell would I learn to develop for a phone that I don't have? Honestly. Once the source is built and created, what am I going to do with said source? Not a damn thing. I have no phone to install it to. Building for a phone that I own would be more help to me then building for a phone that I do not own.
Maybe if most of the people around here took a second to actually help someone, there wouldn't be a problem with the vast majority of smart asses replying with a search link. Don't try and convince yourself that you're being helpful and expect me to say "thank you." You're far from it.
Search for dsixda rom kitchen. That will help you get started.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
The guy was trying to help you. You are stupid man sorry but people like you desrve ****. He was giving you a link, you should ve said thank you for that. With your attitude the only thing you'll get is F..
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
UndeadCircus said:
It was actually far from being satisfactory. Forgive me, but why in the holy hell would I learn to develop for a phone that I don't have? Honestly. Once the source is built and created, what am I going to do with said source? Not a damn thing. I have no phone to install it to. Building for a phone that I own would be more help to me then building for a phone that I do not own.
Maybe if most of the people around here took a second to actually help someone, there wouldn't be a problem with the vast majority of smart asses replying with a search link. Don't try and convince yourself that you're being helpful and expect me to say "thank you." You're far from it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. All Android phones run on the Linux based Android operating system. So what on earth could you possibly learn from a thread about a phone that uses the same operating system? Like I said, the phones each have some differences but the overall basis of how the system works is the same. So yes, the threads I posted are helpful. They contain enough information to get you started in the right direction until you can find information that reviews the specific differences that you can then apply to the Evo. If you could get over yourself for a minute or two in order to open your mind you'd be able to realize that. You're the one that came here with questions. Seems kind of naive to pick and choose which answer you want to hear and then whine about the ones you don't understand.
Either way, I gave you something helpful. It's up to you whether or not you choose to use it. Best of luck to you.
Edit: People on this site, myself included, do nothing but help each other. If you can't see that then the problem is not with this site. The problem is with you.
I'm with him
Concordium said:
**CLICK HERE** for the search feature
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been wondering this same question as I pondered to develop my own ROM, this link was actually helpful. Sometimes people overlook things and its helpful to get a second opinion, which is why I believe this entire Q&A thread exists. So it is puzzling to me why would come here to get a second opinion and then ***** out the first person to try to help.
I just can't understand why you ask for help and then criticize help... And this is why XDA needs a "Negative Thanks" button.
Cherokee4Life said:
I have been wondering this same question as I pondered to develop my own ROM, this link was actually helpful. Sometimes people overlook things and its helpful to get a second opinion, which is why I believe this entire Q&A thread exists. So it is puzzling to me why would come here to get a second opinion and then ***** out the first person to try to help.
I just can't understand why you ask for help and then criticize help... And this is why XDA needs a "Negative Thanks" button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only problem with a negative thanks button is that people like UndeadCircus would be pressing negative thanks all the time because they didn't like, or don't understand, the answer they were given. People are a lot more willing to toss out negativity than they are optimism and gratitude. In the end I see it like this; My responsibility here is to help others to the best of my ability. People can either be open minded to the help given here and see all the opportunities laid before them or they can remain closed minded and in the end not gain as much knowledge as they otherwise would have. Either way, I've done my job and the decision on whether or not to take advantage of it is on them.
@OP
There are two threads in evo development about your question.
The author is lithid-cm.
~ I'm a fungi
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can pm me I will try to help you with your phone.. Ok
XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
KidCarter93 said:
XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
ronnie498 said:
If you can pm me I will try to you with your phone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you kind sir, I will indeed take you up on that when i have the time - currently moving the next few days.
alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can totally understand that, but we were all noobs at one point or another. Even now, I have noob moments from time to time.
But a lot of people around XDA will get annoyed by new users for the simple fact that the majority of the time, they won't search for an answer. They'll simply post a thread wherever they can and expect an answer to be handed to them.
Hence why we suggest that people spend the time to read the stickied threads in the 'About xda', 'General', and their device specific forums.
These stickies will include most of the information a user may need about there device or about XDA in general.
If after reading them and searching, if an answer has still not been found then create a thread and let people know exactly what you've done to find an answer. If other users can tell you actually have searched, then they'll be more willing to help you.
If any of that seemed condescending, I apologize, but I'm not aware of what knowledge you have regarding these forums.
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
Are you serious you posted a question, got smart with the first person who responded and now your complaining none will help. Sorry to not be constructive help but being the "noob" you say you are, I would drop the attitude if you expect much help in the future. Most will tell you to read first because all your questions have been asked and answered before. Your device is not new and xda has a wealth of information on it. All you have to do is your homework and read.
my advise to you is to lose the attitude, be patient and
read, read, read
Edit.
I can only assume on the actual model of your gs2 because of lack of info but
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=22904907 this only took a few seconds to find
Tapped from my e4gt blazing with the tweaked blu kuban V0.1.3
After reading the post you made to trigger this, it appears to me that you expected XDA to work like an IRC channel where you would essentially be having a near real time conversation with a support tech. As you are no doubt aware now, it doesn't work like that. XDA members are spread around the world and it may take a few hours for someone to reply. It is best to give all important details to get the best answers.
BTW, if you are going to "quote" someone as you did in the first post, it is advisable to put exactly what they did say within the quotes rather than paraphrase as you did.
"nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with"
does not equal
"No body will reply if you dont say what you want htere are a billion things you can do so tell what the problem is"
See the difference?
Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
anasdcool71 said:
Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.
I don't see an issue.
Local knowledge of the forum by reading would show you need to know more about the phone than just the software version.
Reading past examples would probably show this.
Searching will also usually reveal a working root method stickied on the development forum
alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, you got what was coming to you and frankly you deserved it. Judging by the second quote here I can tell that you really don't understand the purpose of XDA and as such losing you really won't be a loss. You seem also to be a generally unpleasant person by the way you intentionally misquoted the people in your thread, and the fact that you expected this to be some sort of help service. You didn't search before posting (I'm sure there are thousands of guides out there) and you definitely didn't provide enough information. You say 'I need help with rooting' - well what specific part of the process? And if you just want a guide, then why not follow an already existing one? If you're following an already existing guide and the OP is open to questions, why not just ask there rather than creating a new thread? One more thing you didn't account for before replying like a douche to the person who answered to is the fact that he's from Ghana and the likelihood is that English is not his primary language. Google translate never works well.
One way i can understand the OP's frustration with the way some members respond to newcomers. But you will not win any sympathy with the way you have responded, specially with the wording in this thread regarding how you expect XDA to serve you. I am all for helping people and getting them started in there android journey. But at the same time i am not happy to help someone only for them to keep asking constant questions specially after i helped them out and pointing them to were to read.
and another thing. rather than complaining in a thread were basically you are using foul language you could of just reported any issues you faced.
anyways hope you change your mind about XDA and give this place a chance cause once you get started you will get addicted to it. all the best
and no offense checking your date since you started here it seems that you have been here a while. so for someone who has been here a while but not posted much i would still have expected you to realize by now how XDA works....anyways if you need any hand with anything just let me know via PM and i see if i can help you out with any issues you may have
I agree with the others. You really overreacted and seem to have an attitude. There was nothing wrong with the post your linked to and like someone else said, it was wrong to paraphrase it the way you did. It was not the least bit harsh. The other day in the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 section someone told me to "shut up and f*** off". Now that's harsh. The response you got? Not at all. He was trying to tell you you need to provide more details that's all.
Alright, i am one of those people that seem to get on your nerves.
I'll tell you why, because there is a big and clear search button on your face in every page, you learned about it when registering and watching the registration video, and still refused to use it.
You asked a question that 2 million people asked before you, and still want members to waste their time and answer you AGAIN.
Use the search button = be happy.
Until then, don't expect everyone to be nice.
G L Reply
You never know. Each forum has its own set of good members, bad members, and downright annoying ones. If your device's forum has an excess of "downright annoying", there's not a whole lot you can do beside a) using a different website or b) crossing your fingers that you'll never have device specific questions.
It almost creates a whole new dimension on "device buying factors" :laugh:. You might wind up with a device whose XDA DEVELOPERS subforum is full of jerks. Thankfully, I got my questions answered before they tried to ban my account because they didn't like me, lol.
It's a tough spot to be in, and there's not a whole lot of advice I can give you on this other than "Good Luck".
- 2B
Unfortunately on the Internets, people can be jerks. The best thin you can do is ignore trolls and try to do as much research on your own as you can so that you sound like you've tried before asking for help. Nothing seems to bate a troll more than asking (what they consider to be) stupid/noob questions. I'm not saying it's right, just saying you can help avoid it yourself since you can't control other people.
Sorry you had a bad experience, but flaming the board to others essentially badmouths an entire community based on a small group's actions.
To the OP I understand completely and like someone said, people normally will live in different time zones. With that said it will usually take hours to respond with a answer..
For my nexus root, I asked questions before hand to Tiny* a great kernel dev who helped the droid incredible community. He had a nexus. Although his into was vague I went to the nexus forums and went to the toolkit/root area "Mskip" and asked some questions, they weren't actually answered and left me with the reaction as "okay, this community is actually stuck up".
So then from there I searched various YouTube videos and eventually found out using a toolkit is bad, I was about to use it. So I researched some more and eventually found a steady great adb guide.
I rooted without hassle and astonished after rooting and seeing some comments to others wanting to root. J
Just answer his question and don't be a jerk.. remember you were once in his shoes at one time. Each person wanting root I recommend adb root and give them the guide.
There is no reason to act snotty to others wanting help.
There is even a better way to help others "Team viewer" as this will help anyone not familiar with rooting or just don't know what to do.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Nope. Haven't Seen That.
mf2112 said:
Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.
khruska said:
As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
You can't be as noob as i was when i first joined. I knew literally nothing about android. Big diff from some of the noobs now? I joined xda to LEARN. Now i at least know java (which is a start). I can't make a rom from source (yet) but i'm getting there (still a long way though). Problem is a lot of new members join to ask questions that's been answered a dozen times before... and that's sad.
I do try to help out when i can, but lately i find myself reporting threads than actually answering the op's questions...
It's really not that hard to search (unless you'e on the app - if you are then you're probably screwed ).
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app
I been reading the forums here for a long time trying to figure out how to root android devices.
I just want to say that the ten point thing required of new users takes away the allure of becoming a member because you won't get any help even if you do.
all of you people say your here to help, but no, it just isn't true..
because it were then you should be able to figure out the guy who comes in and makes his first post is actually the one that needs the most help but he is silenced and no one knows., it's kind of like being shut in a closet and forgotten until you starve.
after months (literally months) i have to say i give up.
I became a member here only so i could ask questions to be told i can't, this has been months now (literally).
if administration is reading this you may as well delete my account, membership has no benefits at all because of this.
may as well say thanks for nothing.
wish you understood how elitist of an idea that really is, and how it leads to the failure of the community by circumventing its own growth.
I am not a robot, check..
administration is becoming robots, check.
This is a community, of helpers, developers, and those seeking help, and we all try to work together. Getting upset cause you can't find help isn't going to help you get help, honestly. And joining the community and participating should make getting to 10 posts a very easy and quick endeavour. Just by joining discussions, asking questions where you can, and even posting questions in the Q&A section, where anyone can post. You could help others too, when possible.
And to say you can't get help confuses me, you have only posted one time in several months, yesterday. I don't see any attempts really to ask for help? There are many places to find help, not only in a development thread. Assuming that's where you are having trouble posting?
The point I'm making, is this is a community of give and take, and hopefully giving more than taking. Getting to 10 constructive posts should not be difficult. Also, you didn't even say where exactly you cannot post, because for the most part, the old 10 point rule does not apply. Posting links takes a 10 post count for good reason, to stop spam. Which is a severe problem on a site this large.
I'm closing this thread as there's no more needing to be said and there's dozens of threads around on the same topic. But I hope you find your help! :good: