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I have never put much weight behind peoples comments about the Android fragmentation but the Nexus just frustrates me. I have owned everything from an Iphone, WP7 and Android phones and while all have their good and bad points I am starting to see many more bad for Android. I have moved from a GSII to the Nexus mainly because of the new OS and because my provider offered it to me for free on my plan. The three main apps I used on my GSII do not work with the Nexus. One doesnt even show up in the Market and if sideloaded just crashes the other two while they install from the Market they just crash constantly. The removal of features like facebook integration all just make me wonder what Google is thinking. This is just the OS not to mention other flaws with the phone like the volume being so low you have to install an app to hear it ring and the battery life being poor.
I know there will be a lot of people who say that I should root or mod or install this or that but it just proves my point. Apple and Wp7 just wor fork the most part and despite their limitations usually work well. The Lumia series of WP7 handsets get released in a few weeks in Australia and I think I will be going back to WP7 the three apps I use daily are now available for it, it has awesome facebook integration and it looks sexy too. Everything I need or want in a phone right now.
Sorry Google but you have lost me for the time being. I may be back but for the time being I think I will be happier elsewhere.
The Nexus-series devices are geared towards developers, hackers, and other enthusiasts who not only don't mind mucking about with adb but actually prefer it. Not wanting to "root or mod or install this or that" doesn't prove your point - it proves that you bought the wrong device.
The GSII is marketed towards normal consumers. Google stripped out Facebook sync on the Nexus device - that's because of a beef between Google and Facebook. Samsung (I believe) leaves it in on the GSII. Because they are less concerned about being "pure Android" and more concerned with selling a solid product that consumers will like to use.
It's not Android's fault that some developers haven't updated their apps to be compatible with the latest version of Android and the latest hardware specs. Contact the developers of those apps that you can't live without and see what it would take for them to make the app compatible. If they don't know there's a demand for it, they may not bother updating it.
If that's not good enough, I'm sorry. Maybe Android isn't the right fit for you. *shrug* It sure is for me.
codesplice said:
The Nexus-series devices are geared towards developers, hackers, and other enthusiasts who not only don't mind mucking about with adb but actually prefer it. Not wanting to "root or mod or install this or that" doesn't prove your point - it proves that you bought the wrong device.
The GSII is marketed towards normal consumers. Google stripped out Facebook sync on the Nexus device - that's because of a beef between Google and Facebook. Samsung (I believe) leaves it in on the GSII. Because they are less concerned about being "pure Android" and more concerned with selling a solid product that consumers will like to use.
It's not Android's fault that some developers haven't updated their apps to be compatible with the latest version of Android and the latest hardware specs. Contact the developers of those apps that you can't live without and see what it would take for them to make the app compatible. If they don't know there's a demand for it, they may not bother updating it.
If that's not good enough, I'm sorry. Maybe Android isn't the right fit for you. *shrug* It sure is for me.
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Click to collapse
Very well put.
I have yet to run into one of my apps that doesn't work in ICS.
It really sounds like the OP bought the wrong phone for themselves. See if you can return it.
?
The Nexus I got from my phone provider to be used as my primary phone. It wasnt sold as a developers device or for hacking. Its a consumer device sold to the consumer market. You may buy it for the sole purpose of modding or hacking it but that not what Google sells or markets it as.
Why do I have to have a pretty common feature removed because of a beef between two companies. This was googles descision (probably to boost their google+ service) and it only hurts the end user. Your right no other phones have had it removed.
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
I absolutely love my Galaxy Nexus. I just loaded on AOSP Kang Milestone 3 and it has literally every feature I had wanted since I bought the phone. I get great battery life, and the UI is so efficient. I wish there was a better camera, and I could go for a 3300mAh battery like the Droid Maxx, but it's still ****ing AMAZING the way it is.
bnathan said:
The removal of features like facebook integration all just make me wonder what Google is thinking. This is just the OS not to mention other flaws with the phone like the volume being so low you have to install an app to hear it ring and the battery life being poor.
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't want any facebook integration on my device so cheers to Google for getting rid of them.
bnathan said:
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you think that when Apple releases updates for iOS that it doesn't break stuff? The only difference is that developers sometimes get a longer period with the SDK for the new OS to try and fix issues compared to Android, but you really are naive if you think iOS or WP7 won't have broken apps when a new version is released.
Never have I had an app not work after an update with IOS. If thats due to the SDK being out longer then Apple is doing something right that Android isnt. I am not saying that Android isnt without merrit or that it isnt good for everyone but you must adit to the flaws. Look at the number of posts about app compatibility.
bnathan said:
Never have I had an app not work after an update with IOS. If thats due to the SDK being out longer then Apple is doing something right that Android isnt. I am not saying that Android isnt without merrit or that it isnt good for everyone but you must adit to the flaws. Look at the number of posts about app compatibility.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And who is to blame for app incompatibility? Is Google supposed to stop developing the operating system why every **** and Jane with an application updates their apps to work? It's not Google's fault that developers and companies don't update their applications. You are also looking at probably one of the biggest changes in the Android OS since it started with Honeycomb/ICS, so some things have to be completely re-written which takes time.
There may be flaws with the platform, but there are flaws with everthing. At least with Android, then end user can fix them if they want to, good luck doing that on BB, WP7, or iOS. Also, just because you haven't had an issue with iOS doesn't mean there aren't problems with apps. Then again, I guess it doesn't take much to get your phone to play a fart sound...
bnathan said:
The Nexus I got from my phone provider to be used as my primary phone. It wasnt sold as a developers device or for hacking. Its a consumer device sold to the consumer market. You may buy it for the sole purpose of modding or hacking it but that not what Google sells or markets it as
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and it is a very good consumer level device. What more can you ask for?
bnathan said:
Why do I have to have a pretty common feature removed because of a beef between two companies. This was googles descision (probably to boost their google+ service) and it only hurts the end user. Your right no other phones have had it removed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the real world.
bnathan said:
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has been covered multiple times.
bnathan said:
The Nexus I got from my phone provider to be used as my primary phone. It wasnt sold as a developers device or for hacking. Its a consumer device sold to the consumer market. You may buy it for the sole purpose of modding or hacking it but that not what Google sells or markets it as.
Why do I have to have a pretty common feature removed because of a beef between two companies. This was googles descision (probably to boost their google+ service) and it only hurts the end user. Your right no other phones have had it removed.
And your last comment is exacty what I was saying. People who bought an app on an Iphone 3 can still use the app on a 4S and so far the same with WP7. Its a pain that every time an update comes out for Android that it may "break" an app I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. The Nexus is a developer tool.
2.Why would Google not want to boost their own products such as Google+? I'm sure if I had a beef with a certain person or company I wouldn't support their product either. Would you?
3. You're right about the iPhone apps. As long as the developer updates to optimize performance with the new iOS. That's a lot of the problems with the apps I used on my Captivate vs. using on my GNex.
If I recall correctly, the reasons Google gave for dropping Facebook support were more about Google's fundamental philosophy regarding the open and free exchange of information. Google lets your bring your information to their service, and you can then take your information away and put it elsewhere. Google was fine with you sharing information from your Google account to your Facebook account. Facebook is more one way - you can bring your information and contacts in, but you can't take that information anywhere else. You could import your information from Google into Facebook, but Facebook will not allow you to export Facebook information to Google. This is the reason Google stopped supporting facebook sync.
its amazing how defensive people get when you give opinion or coment about fault with something they own.
Fact remains (no matter what the reason) Google removed the facebook feature which only hurts the end user. If Apple or anyone else did this you would be all up in arms saying how much better Android is for being so open. HAHA
No matter how you look at it there is compatiblity issues between versions of Android which there arent any (apparently) to IOS or WP7 users. Example... Plants Vs Zombies. I have owned it on al three platforms and on IOS or WP7 I have never had an issue with it working as it should. On my Android phones its breaks between versions. On my Incredible S the zombies would walk off the screen on centain versions. It doesnt run at all on my Galaxy Nexus.
I accept that the average XDA user can fix his or her own issues with ANdroid but the users here are a VERY VERY small percentage of users and for the average user Android isnt as user friendly or stable as the other two.
Since you chose the ignore the same thing on iOS, and also the fact wp7 hasnt seen a major version update.
Go back to those devices, bye
Erm... thanks for your opinion, we're all entitled to one. Stick with your iPhone or WP7 device then mate.
Morale of the story here is that providers will try to sell you what they 'think' you need without asking you.
They don't always listen when they do ask and they certainly don't get it right 100% of the time.
Xda Premium on GSM Galaxy Nexus
I agree with pretty much all the comments made here about android.
This is the biggest change android has made to its OS since its birth so certain 3rd party apps will be broken until the developer of the app pulls his finger out and makes it comaptible again. This isnt googles fault.
I dont agree with the statement of the nexus being a developer phone however.
If it was a developer phone and google wanted you to root it and flash custom roms it wouldnt break your warrenty would it.
I had a galaxy s before my galaxy nexus and i flashed literally hundreds of roms onto that phone and OC it and all the rest... Thats not because thats what samsung wanted me to do.
Google have reinvented android and tried to make it consumer friendly.
There isnt a label on the galaxy nexus for the average user that says dont buy this phone unless you plan on flashing custom kernels and roms onto it.
The galaxy nexus is an amazing phone and i personally plan on leaving it stock as long as i can because i really dont think theres too much that needs doing to it that warrants voiding my warranty and risking bricks etc.
Back to the point... Yes if you dont like the phone then dont cry about it, just sell it and buy a windows phone. Why come here complaining? What do you hope to gain?
Maybe you should have tested the phone and done some research before you upgraded.
The Facebook problem is entirely Facebook's fault.
Android provides an API to synchronize contacts. 3rd party apps can add metadata to those contacts (picture, phone number, email, status updates, etc...). These metadata are then available on your phone.
But Facebook thinks they own your data so instead of using the proper API, they do it in a way to prevent you from exporting that data. For example they don't want you to be able to have a list of your friend's emails or phone numbers through Facebook.
Remember the first time you used Facebook? There were options to find friends using a contact list (CSV, email provider, MSN, GMail contacts, etc...). This is exactly what Facebook wants to block from the competition and one of that platform is Android.
There's a reason the Facebook app on the market has 3.5 stars only. It's rarely updated, slow and full of bugs. And they don't seem to listen to users. All they do is copy others because they are paranoid about ending up like MySpace. Their latest copycat is "Facebook Messenger" which puts an icon right next to Google+ messenger with the name "Messenger" as well.
So instead of blaming Google who removed the "backdoor" Facebook used (adding fields to the contacts database directly and causing a mess if you removed the Facebook app then) write a complaint to Facebook. They'll happily ignore you because they don't care about what their users wants.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
bnathan said:
...
Sorry Google but you have lost me for the time being. I may be back but for the time being I think I will be happier elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bye. I guess we'll survive without you. Or did I miss your groundbreaking contribution to the community?!
Every second somewhere, someone changes their phone. I hope not that many think they need to share their decision here. Have fun with your new phone.
zolah said:
I dont agree with the statement of the nexus being a developer phone however.
If it was a developer phone and google wanted you to root it and flash custom roms it wouldnt break your warrenty would it.
I had a galaxy s before my galaxy nexus and i flashed literally hundreds of roms onto that phone and OC it and all the rest... Thats not because thats what samsung wanted me to do.
Google have reinvented android and tried to make it consumer friendly.
There isnt a label on the galaxy nexus for the average user that says dont buy this phone unless you plan on flashing custom kernels and roms onto it.
The galaxy nexus is an amazing phone and i personally plan on leaving it stock as long as i can because i really dont think theres too much that needs doing to it that warrants voiding my warranty and risking bricks etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google shouldn't be responsible for your screw ups regardless. If they did warranty hard bricks and other software errors, they'd be out of a lot of money. As you still see today, there are several people on here that brick their phone(or at least think they did) because they can't read ahead of time. Now why should Google be liable for that?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Jmurph3 said:
Google shouldn't be responsible for your screw ups regardless. If they did warranty hard bricks and other software errors, they'd be out of a lot of money. As you still see today, there are several people on here that brick their phone(or at least think they did) because they can't read ahead of time. Now why should Google be liable for that?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
They wont do it because thats not what the phone is for and they wont help you if you mess it up. It is NOT a development tool.
P.S... I have never screwed up a phone yet touch wood and ive flashed lots of my friends phones for them as well as my own...
So we are in 2014 in case alot of you haven't noticed. I just read a report how banking apps on Android are more vulnerable that Apple's (watch-out it's gonna be Apple's new selling point), but for obvious reasons I could understand why (say FREEDOM!). Anyways...should everyone now be required to be running an antivirus in our Android devices, just like is a MUST to be running one on our Windows platform? Is it still early to worry about that? Has anyone gotten spyware, trojans, worms, or any malware in that matter in their phones so far? What your opinion fellas?
if you only install from playstore and from trusted parties, then no need; however, if you run bootleg apks and stuff from torrents, i would get one. Antiviruses eats battery and really have no purpose for android, if you are a safe installer. Just hit the thanks button
Luthien1 said:
if you only install from playstore and from trusted parties, then no need; however, if you run bootleg apks and stuff from torrents, i would get one. Antiviruses eats battery and really have no purpose for android, if you are a safe installer. Just hit the thanks button
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second this answer. Of course I also download apks from the internet, but only from a developer that has it posted here on xda. If you are aware if what you are installing, then you should be OK.
Sent from the phablet of the year!
Typically your biggest threats are from nefarious publishers who have earned trust on the play store, and an antivirus is going to do little to protect you.
And that is exactly how I feel. Just like on Windows, you have to practice common sense (sorry, there is not an app for that unfortunally), if it looks suspicious and/or if not from a known source then don't open it or install it. Also, unless is inconvenient to you, keep your data/wifi off until you need it...you will also get better battery life as a added bonus.
Sent from my Blutiful Note3
Spoke with my lawyer. Says I have a case against samsung.
1.) Samsung faild to password protect update option
As my almost 2 year old managed to update me to 4.4 from JB 4.1.2. When I did not want 4.3 or 4.4 due to knox.
2.) The knox feature was not advertised when selling the note 2 and other phones sold prior to introducing knox to our phones.
I don't have the money to fork over legal expenses. So lawyer said if I can find more then 400 samsung users who are stuck with knox they would take the case.
If you wish to join reply to post. Once we reach 400 will contact you all with an for proper information.
Pls only use this to count yourself in. Add a comment if you wish when adding yourself but pls no chating. Will make it easy to count who's in this way.
I'm in
rogersb11 said:
I'm in
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Click to collapse
They should have given the option when introducing 4.3 and 4.4 of having knox secure boot or not having knox at all.
I'm sure they could have introduced jb 4.3 and kk 4.4 and any other updates without knox and knox secure boot.
droideastcoast said:
They should have given the option when introducing 4.3 and 4.4 of having knox secure boot or not having knox at all.
I'm sure they could have introduced jb 4.3 and kk 4.4 and any other updates without knox and knox secure boot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bingo. Option is what it should be
Count on me
Throw me in the mix, can I go in twice? I have 2 notes dueces.
I'm in too.
Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
So am I.
Tap, tap says the wicked Note +₩● ?
Kind of sad that ppl are complaining about knox secure boot and trip but no one is willing to step up and take samsung to court?
Come on guys.
This could also be the answer to removing the secure boot.
If noone steps up then samsung will continue to do this kind of crap.
In bit my Knox is tripped
I like Knox... I don't see what the big deal is. Lose the ability to root like Apple so devs have to pull a jailbreak every new version that comes out by vulnerability hunting? I've come to the conclusion that there is no need for me to root anymore. I have become the normal smartphone user who doesn't need more than what comes stock after all these years rooting and bug hunting. It is now a waste of time for me.
And you know what else?
There are millions of people who are just like me who could give a rat's ass about how Knox stops me from rooting my phone.
Before you go flaming, understand that I am talking about myself and the other millions who have no clue that XDA even exists. You can do what you need to feel better about yourself by gathering a class action lawsuit against a multi-billion corporation. Good luck with that.
[email protected] said:
I like Knox... I don't see what the big deal is. Lose the ability to root like Apple so devs have to pull a jailbreak every new version that comes out by vulnerability hunting? I've come to the conclusion that there is no need for me to root anymore. I have become the normal smartphone user who doesn't need more than what comes stock after all these years rooting and bug hunting. It is now a waste of time for me.
And you know what else?
There are millions of people who are just like me who could give a rat's ass about how Knox stops me from rooting my phone.
Before you go flaming, understand that I am talking about myself and the other millions who have no clue that XDA even exists. You can do what you need to feel better about yourself by gathering a class action lawsuit against a multi-billion corporation. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post convinced me to join the lawsuit. That's you opinion and it'a fair,
However I like having choice, freedom, and ownership as a consumer. I don't like having updates remove and change features that I orginally paid for
Cryingmoose said:
This post convinced me to join the lawsuit. That's you opinion and it'a fair,
However I like having choice, freedom, and ownership as a consumer. I don't like having updates remove and change features that I orginally paid for
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm In
I am sorry but after reading this thread everyday I have to finally say something. You guys are trying to sue Samsung for adding security to your phone to prevent it from being easily hacked, your personal and banking information being stolen, unauthorized use, and not being able to root it and put unauthorized software on it? Got a little bit of news for you, you better start looking for some old phones on swappa and ebay because there are talks that Google is incorporating some of Knox into L OS version. Also Sprint and T-mobile have no issues rooting with the same version of Knox...so maybe you should be looking at what your carrier is doing.
And as for a 2 year old accepting the update, you had options to lock your phone with many different methods. This 2 year old accepted the option to first download it, wait while the file downloaded, then also accepted the option to install now? I do not think this lawyer has all the information. Especially when Google and Samsung on the devil's advocate side would face a much larger lawsuit if doing nothing to try and prevent the millions of non-XDA users from getting their phone hacked. Knox and locked bootloaders have nothing to do with trying to prevent the 100,000 XDA AT&T or Verizon Samsung users from rooting. It is to make the phones as secure as possible for military and business applications.
Here is sammobile's report on "L" and Knox: http://www.sammobile.com/2014/06/25...egrate-knox-into-androids-next-major-release/
KennyG123 said:
I am sorry but after reading this thread everyday I have to finally say something. You guys are trying to sue Samsung for adding security to your phone to prevent it from being easily hacked, your personal and banking information being stolen, unauthorized use, and not being able to root it and put unauthorized software on it? Got a little bit of news for you, you better start looking for some old phones on swappa and ebay because there are talks that Google is incorporating some of Knox into L OS version. Also Sprint and T-mobile have no issues rooting with the same version of Knox...so maybe you should be looking at what your carrier is doing.
And as for a 2 year old accepting the update, you had options to lock your phone with many different methods. This 2 year old accepted the option to first download it, wait while the file downloaded, then also accepted the option to install now? I do not think this lawyer has all the information. Especially when Google and Samsung on the devil's advocate side would face a much larger lawsuit if doing nothing to try and prevent the millions of non-XDA users from getting their phone hacked. Knox and locked bootloaders have nothing to do with trying to prevent the 100,000 XDA AT&T or Verizon Samsung users from rooting. It is to make the phones as secure as possible for military and business applications.
Here is sammobile's report on "L" and Knox: http://www.sammobile.com/2014/06/25...egrate-knox-into-androids-next-major-release/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a gulf of difference between a device being advertised with a feature and shipping with it and a mandatory update installing said feature.
The carriers didn't even disclose the ramifications of installing OTAs containing Knox.
I don't have an issue with updates changing features over time but something that alters your relationship with your property in such a fashion should be opt-in and after disclosing the ramifications.
TerryMathews said:
There's a gulf of difference between a device being advertised with a feature and shipping with it and a mandatory update installing said feature.
The carriers didn't even disclose the ramifications of installing OTAs containing Knox.
I don't have an issue with updates changing features over time but something that alters your relationship with your property in such a fashion should be opt-in and after disclosing the ramifications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At no point did Samsung or AT&T guarantee the rootability of a device. And remember, the other millions of owners don't know about these "ramifications" as I am sure they are happy to know that their phone is more secure. Windows updates your system constantly for security updates. If that suddenly stops a Pr0n site from showing up on your PC because it is now considered malicious should they have notified you? The updates do nothing to prevent the out of the box use intended by the device. I am merely stating that this suit has no legal grounds. If you know about rooting and know about hacking, you know not to accept updates until you find out what they are. You should know ways of preventing those updates, and you should know how to secure your phone from anyone using it to accept those updates without your permission. The other millions of users out there can keep moving along blissfully happy that their phone is constantly being updated and not left in the dust.
Why should the carriers disclose that your device be more difficult to root? Rooting is not an authorized procedure supported by the carriers at all! I missed the disclosure by Sony on my PS3 that accepting the update which will allow me to access the Playstation Network is also to prevent jailbreaking it on the current revision. Add to that, read the OP...it states nothing about the carrier. It is a suit directed at Samsung. Knox does not prevent any use of the device which is authorized and supported by the carrier. Also Knox does not prevent rooting as seen on T-Mobile and Sprint forums as well as the international forums.
But I wish you guys luck with the suit and hope the lawyer is accepting this Pro Bono and no one has to dish out any non-refundable legal fees. I just wanted you all to be better informed of what you are asking.
If I'm not mistaken, the Federal government (USA) guaranteed end users the right to root access of our phones, and recently upheld that law. But does Knox really stop you from rooting it? Luckily I have avoided it because I haven't had a stock ROM for more than a few minutes on my phone since I bought it
KennyG123 said:
At no point did Samsung or AT&T guarantee the rootability of a device. And remember, the other millions of owners don't know about these "ramifications" as I am sure they are happy to know that their phone is more secure. Windows updates your system constantly for security updates. If that suddenly stops a Pr0n site from showing up on your PC because it is now considered malicious should they have notified you? The updates do nothing to prevent the out of the box use intended by the device. I am merely stating that this suit has no legal grounds. If you know about rooting and know about hacking, you know not to accept updates until you find out what they are. You should know ways of preventing those updates, and you should know how to secure your phone from anyone using it to accept those updates without your permission. The other millions of users out there can keep moving along blissfully happy that their phone is constantly being updated and not left in the dust.
Why should the carriers disclose that your device be more difficult to root? Rooting is not an authorized procedure supported by the carriers at all! I missed the disclosure by Sony on my PS3 that accepting the update which will allow me to access the Playstation Network is also to prevent jailbreaking it on the current revision. Add to that, read the OP...it states nothing about the carrier. It is a suit directed at Samsung. Knox does not prevent any use of the device which is authorized and supported by the carrier. Also Knox does not prevent rooting as seen on T-Mobile and Sprint forums as well as the international forums.
But I wish you guys luck with the suit and hope the lawyer is accepting this Pro Bono and no one has to dish out any non-refundable legal fees. I just wanted you all to be better informed of what you are asking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a difference between guaranteeing a product's suitability for given task and actively working to reduce that capability.
For instance, let's look at car recalls. Some of them impact how your car behaves, its gas mileage, or its service schedule. Ever notice how the dealer needs your consent before modifying your vehicle?
Your example of Windows Update is equally flawed. Windows Update is an opt-in service which in fact reinforces my earlier point that Knox or system updates in general should be opt-in or at least have a provision for opt-out that doesn't involve rooting your device.
Court cases aren't decided on popularity. If they were, Roe v. Wade would have gone a very different direction (as an example).
I hope you're not a lawyer Kenny...
Honestly... there's no point in arguing. Whomever goes and does this lawsuit, have fun, good luck, and I hope no money comes out of your own pocket. Your XDA soap box will get you nowhere so go out and do what you have to do to get your rocks off. Even if you even do succeed, enjoy the years of counter-suits and appeals.
TerryMathews said:
There is a difference between guaranteeing a product's suitability for given task and actively working to reduce that capability.
For instance, let's look at car recalls. Some of them impact how your car behaves, its gas mileage, or its service schedule. Ever notice how the dealer needs your consent before modifying your vehicle?
Your example of Windows Update is equally flawed. Windows Update is an opt-in service which in fact reinforces my earlier point that Knox or system updates in general should be opt-in or at least have a provision for opt-out that doesn't involve rooting your device.
Court cases aren't decided on popularity. If they were, Roe v. Wade would have gone a very different direction (as an example).
I hope you're not a lawyer Kenny...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no further point in arguing with you as clearly you are not a lawyer either. No one mentioned popularity. Your arguments are misconstrued and have nothing to do with the focus of the lawsuit. You should reread the "opening statement" a 2 year old "accepted" the update meaning optional, not mandatory, and there are ways for anyone who can search to not accept the OTA or update.
Have a nice day and good luck. As I stated earlier, Knox is now moving to Google and the next version of Android and it also does not prevent rooting if you would just check out the other carriers. This is the main flaw in this law suit. Lawyered
I've used the stock rom (android 10) which came on the device, and the Malaysk is what i'm currently running (not paid for as I don't agree with forced payments for roms!) and it is still very laggy and stuff doesn't seem to work.
I've not updated for about 9 months, is there any new roms available (presuming we're talking stock roms since there only seems to be two russian guys making these roms and Hal9k still only has his old Android 9 rom)
How does the Hal9k android 9 rom compare? is it better performance/less bugs etc? compared to stock 10/Malaysk ?
Thanks in advance.
if you don't agree to pay someone else's work, keep the original rom
or make one yourself free for all
entirely not the point, but thanks for your input.
pakoner said:
if you don't agree to pay someone else's work, keep the original rom
or make one yourself free for all
Click to expand...
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I see this reply used alot; the comment avoids the OPs comments entirely and the issues around these paid roms, including things like lack of support and the fact that they do not contribute to the advancement of the forums.
Try commenting on topic, addressing the points raised instead of confirming biases.
The fact is they take others work, modify the stock rom and then charge for it.
Coming back on topic, there's generally no need for these modified roms, as the mods/issues they address are no longer an issue (e.g. use a USB OBD), or issues such as speed dependant volume, can be found in launchers or installable apps.
Well there is if people have an older rom unit and want to upgrade it with a more up to date rom with fewer bugs and more inbuilt options.
That said, newer options and features worth having are still few and far between. It seems only car manufactures are able to develop their own units with features that work which do address peoples needs.
For anyone with an older car or a car lacking a good head unit, people have few options. Of course its a far cry from tape players and a readers digest atlas. But once purchased these universal units have so little support or upgrade options people are very much at the mercy of independent developers.
Thankfully these few people are willing to share their knowledge and skill for all. While they might only tinker with what came before, their upgrades and developments are still at their own pace - and thats their choice. If they charge a few quid for some of it then so what. Be gratefull we have them still at all.
Because what really is a shame is that there are now too few skilled developers like them. And that IS the problem. A few years ago developers for phone roms were ten a penny with good healthy competition and a huge influx of ideas and knowledge.
Sadly there are more and more people today with such skills only interested in developing for cash rewards by advertisers on the back of malware or worthless apps.
Those few that do try to help such as those here in the forums, even if they make a charge, do make some progress and share with all. Remember they are also constrained and rely heavily on far more restrictive and less supportive google tools these days than they were.
The real shame is there just isn't enough of them.
To me it seems like big tech has gotten so much worse on it's intrusions that is killing your batteries, scanning your pics, literally watching your every move with sensors. All saved forever, etc etc. I am no shill I admit I've never tried graphene or calyx but I'm about to and was just wondering the arguments against it from the community who knows.
This post was inspired by Snowden.
I literally bought the P6P mainly for this reason. Using GrapheneOS for a month or so and it was the best choice of my (smartphone) life!
nastyneighbor said:
To me it seems like big tech has gotten so much worse on it's intrusions that is killing your batteries, scanning your pics, literally watching your every move with sensors. All saved forever, etc etc. I am no shill I admit I've never tried graphene or calyx but I'm about to and was just wondering the arguments against it from the community who knows.
This post was inspired by Snowden.
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I don't because of convenience. Security and privacy isn't all or nothing. There are levels to it.
Have nothing to hide and prefer having integrated apps from Google all play nice with each other.
I do plan on trying out Graphene down the line tho, there's no reason people shouldn't at least try it out. The flashing method there and back is just so good it's worth doing just to experience the future of this kinda stuff
nastyneighbor said:
To me it seems like big tech has gotten so much worse on it's intrusions that is killing your batteries, scanning your pics, literally watching your every move with sensors. All saved forever, etc etc. I am no shill I admit I've never tried graphene or calyx but I'm about to and was just wondering the arguments against it from the community who knows.
This post was inspired by Snowden.
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Convenience. I want all the apps and features that come with a Pixel, and Graphene would mean to sacrifice 70% convenience for more security.
I am deep into all the Google apps and will not stop doing that. They are simply too good.
nastyneighbor said:
To me it seems like big tech has gotten so much worse on it's intrusions that is killing your batteries, scanning your pics, literally watching your every move with sensors. All saved forever, etc etc. I am no shill I admit I've never tried graphene or calyx but I'm about to and was just wondering the arguments against it from the community who knows.
This post was inspired by Snowden.
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Because if i wanted all that I'd buy a Nokia 3310.
As expected you will see replies from people fully in the Google stuff and people who do not like big tech and try to get rid of it as much as possible.
Ofcourse the Pixel is a phone which is as much as possible integrated in the Google features, though I think it is also a phone which is great for unlocking and to use with another OS.
At this moment I am still on my Oneplus 3t with LOS18.1 and without any further Google stuff (Google Play Store, Google Servcies etc...). When the mobile drain issue is fixed on the Pixel 6 Pro, this will probably my next phone and the first thing I will do is unlocking and then installing Graphene.
Why?
Several reasons, but the most important one is that I will decide myself what I share with the outside world, not Google. In this time of corona, QR codes and the so called "corona passports" more and more people are seeing the bigger picture. I think it is time we get our privacy back and decide ourselfs what to share and what not. This is our right as world citizen and no-one, even the big tech or the government can take this right away from us.
The second most important one is battery life. What I see on my OP3T is that, even after 6 years the phone does have a battery life of at least two days because of a minimum of background syncing and getting the phone out of deep sleep because of sensors or other stuff I have no idea of.
May be I am a little paranoia sometimes, but I think it is good to be a little critical and to keep thinking for yourself.
So yes, almost sure the next phone is a Pix 6 Pro and yes, the next OS will be Graphene or LOS when available.
I'm waiting for TWRP and possibly other roms. I know you can install via the web, but if I'm going to go to the hassle of unlocking I want to make sure I have options and the ease of TWRP. I look forward to trying it, though.
Wouldn't a more accurate question be why would you buy a phone that was designed with a processor to work specifically with Google's software and then strip the device completely of Google's software (other than AOSP)
I don't worry about privacy because A: I don't do any illicit activity. B: idgaf what data Google mine on me, I'm not that special and there's nothing interesting going on usually with my smartphone. If Google wants to know what shower thought questions I want the answer to whilst I'm taking a dump they can happily know . I think these privacy loonies seriously overestimate how interesting or valuable their data is, we're all just consumers and statistics.
Also, having the play store and Google services is convenient with regards to updates etc. Not to mention the contact/calendar/photo syncing.
Convenience. Same reason this is the first time I've been unrooted for over a decade. I love how things just work and updates are seamless, I don't have to worry about Saftynet or if an app might detect root at some point and keeping magisk updated
Opensystem said:
Have nothing to hide and prefer having integrated apps from Google all play nice with each other.
I do plan on trying out Graphene down the line tho, there's no reason people shouldn't at least try it out. The flashing method there and back is just so good it's worth doing just to experience the future of this kinda stuff
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"Nothing to hide" is a pretty baseless argument. Everyone's got something to hide, passwords, bank account login, SSN, etc.
I 98% like the way my rooted and Magisk-moduled stock ROM on the P6P works as-is. I have nothing against the custom ROMs, and definitely nothing against the so professionally developed ones. They're interesting. I think it's great that they're available. Everyone's needs and expectations are different.
CodeFox said:
I don't worry about privacy because A: I don't do any illicit activity. B: idgaf what data Google mine on me, I'm not that special and there's nothing interesting going on usually with my smartphone. If Google wants to know what shower thought questions I want the answer to whilst I'm taking a dump they can happily know . I think these privacy loonies seriously overestimate how interesting or valuable their data is, we're all just consumers and statistics.
Also, having the play store and Google services is convenient with regards to updates etc. Not to mention the contact/calendar/photo syncing.
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I share the same sentiment.
I use XPrivacyLua to block certain apps (meta apps/tiktok, etc) from seeing app list, accessing camera/mic/location etc because they have no need for to access that data in the background, but Google's use of my data makes my life more convienient.
Blocking ads means that I also don't see whatever ads Google thinks are relevant to me, so despite the fact that they have the data on me, it really doesn't have the slightest effect on my life. Even if this wasn't the case, I'm very unsusceptible to advertising so I wouldn't notice any difference, but I can understand why wanting Google to have less data on you could be advantageous if you're say, a level 10 susceptible (I know a few people like this).
If anything, I'd be happier with a ROM with more features that make my life easier & phone more conveinent to use, than a privacy conscious ROM which would actually be more of a hinderance to me, personally.
Privacy is an illusion just like the American Dream. Have to be asleep to believe them both. Joking aside, convenience is why.
razercortex said:
"Nothing to hide" is a pretty baseless argument. Everyone's got something to hide, passwords, bank account login, SSN, etc.
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"Everyone's got something to hide" is a pretty baseless argument, as I do not. I generally do not use my phone for sensitive information.
Any info that is on here right now, Google had long before I purchased this device. I would be careful with assumptions on XDA, most here aren't exactly average users.
Opensystem said:
Have nothing to hide and prefer having integrated apps from Google all play nice with each other.
I do plan on trying out Graphene down the line tho, there's no reason people shouldn't at least try it out. The flashing method there and back is just so good it's worth doing just to experience the future of this kinda stuff
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Click to collapse
Pretty much this. The Google ecosystem works for me. I'm not afraid of feeding Google since the worst that usually happens is the same ad bothering you for a week or two. I've never been a free/libre software purist either.
The idea of microg or compatibility layers are fine, but I bought a Pixel because it's a Pixel. Having a bootloader that doesn't complain is just a bonus. Cloud backup and cloud restore is a must for me though. Maybe when Lineage comes out a stock-ish gapps experience will be possible.
At the moment, I only see custom roms as experiments. Latest firmware is important for this phone and not every rom stays current even if there are improvements being made over AOSP.
I purchased a Google phone because I want the Google features. I have had many phones over the years, and kept coming back to Google because of the integration. I don't want to login 5 times to get my email, cloud storage, photos, calendar, etc. working. I also use a lot of Google products at home (Google TV, Google Home, Nest, etc) so my phone and house play well together. When they started making Pixels, and adding exclusive features to them, it made it even harder to go with another OEM, or even ROM at that point. It seems like every time I've tried a ROM I end up losing some functionality of the Pixel. I like the stock ROM for the most part, and there are magisk modules to fix the things I don't like, therefore making it perfect .
Opensystem said:
"Everyone's got something to hide" is a pretty baseless argument, as I do not. I generally do not use my phone for sensitive information.
Any info that is on here right now, Google had long before I purchased this device. I would be careful with assumptions on XDA, most here aren't exactly average users.
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Apologies, I didn't mean it as an attack, just generally.
Unfortunately, I handle sensitive information like bank login on my phone, so I have to safeguard it :/
I will not waste my time on those because I'm not a paranoid conspiracy nut. Why in the world would anyone pay close to 1k on a smartphone, just to eliminate a majority of the features and functions is beyond me. Everything is already out there and has been for years. If I was that concerned about privacy, I'd smash my phone, destroy my sim, and lock myself in a bomb shelter and never come out. When I first heard people mention those builds, I thought it was like an April fool's prank.
scott.hart.bti said:
I will not waste my time on those because I'm not a paranoid conspiracy nut. Why in the world would anyone pay close to 1k on a smartphone, just to eliminate a majority of the features and functions is beyond me. Everything is already out there and has been for years. If I was that concerned about privacy, I'd smash my phone, destroy my sim, and lock myself in a bomb shelter and never come out. When I first heard people mention those builds, I thought it was like an April fool's prank.
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This. This is exactly how I feel, right on the nose.
You can't buy a $1000 Google flagship phone and put a custom ROM on it and expect that it's good enough to hide your information from the world well enough to satisfy you. This is the prime age of technology, information moves way too fast for anybody to stop it. Even if you put GrapheneOS on the phone, you still have a cellular carrier that knows your information, you still have to access the internet in some fashion and because your phone is basically an extension of yourself you're going to identify yourself in a multitude of ways regardless of how many services you take off the phone.
I just think, in my opinion, it's better to accept it and just live within your means than go through all the stresses of trying to shrink your footprint. You can't even reap the total value of having a phone this expensive if you're basically ridding it of all of what makes it as valuable as it is. If you worry about your information being snooped upon to that extent you'd be better off buying an old Blackberry or flip phone.
Just my two cents on the matter.