Okay!
So I bought an already used LG G5 Sprint LS990 and it was locked.
I took it to a store to unlock via a software and it worked after putting my sim.
Then, the phone became very hot and went off. It refused coming on. It was more like a hardbrick. It doesn't come on. No recovery or download mode. No display on the screen when I plug in the charger (the phone just feels warm after a while). Also, when I plug it to the computer, there is no connection sound and I checked device manager, it doesn't show anything. No Qualcomm HS-USB QDLoader 9008 or BULK whatever...
I got tired of trying. So I abandoned the phone for about a month.
Last week, I plugged it in again and omg! It showed the battery icon and it was at 0%.
I left it to charge to 100% and I put it on. It got stuck on the Sprint Splash screen and went into a bootloop.
I removed the battery and reinserted it. Now it won't come on again. It's back to being hardbricked.
I even bought a new battery just incase but it didn't work.
It still doesn't connect to the PC.
I don't know what to do.
Can anyone please help?
Litblogger said:
Okay!
So I bought an already used LG G5 Sprint LS990 and it was locked.
I took it to a store to unlock via a software and it worked after putting my sim.
Then, the phone became very hot and went off. It refused coming on. It was more like a hardbrick. It doesn't come on. No recovery or download mode. No display on the screen when I plug in the charger (the phone just feels warm after a while). Also, when I plug it to the computer, there is no connection sound and I checked device manager, it doesn't show anything. No Qualcomm HS-USB QDLoader 9008 or BULK whatever...
I got tired of trying. So I abandoned the phone for about a month.
Last week, I plugged it in again and omg! It showed the battery icon and it was at 0%.
I left it to charge to 100% and I put it on. It got stuck on the Sprint Splash screen and went into a bootloop.
I removed the battery and reinserted it. Now it won't come on again. It's back to being hardbricked.
I even bought a new battery just incase but it didn't work.
It still doesn't connect to the PC.
I don't know what to do.
Can anyone please help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of last check there still is no fix for a sprint g5 hardbrick I have one in the drawer for several months now. Have contacted very reputable sources and no go
TheMadScientist said:
As of last check there still is no fix for a sprint g5 hardbrick I have one in the drawer for several months now. Have contacted very reputable sources and no go
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey.
I got it fixed, using the weirdest method ever:
By cleaning the panel with petrol and heating it with soldering iron.
Litblogger said:
Hey.
I got it fixed, using the weirdest method ever:
By cleaning the panel with petrol and heating it with soldering iron.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was not hard bricked then
Litblogger said:
Hey.
I got it fixed, using the weirdest method ever:
By cleaning the panel with petrol and heating it with soldering iron.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you used gasoline and a soldering iron to fix a hard brick........Interesting
Wouldnt happend to set it ablaze would you have mate?
TheMadScientist said:
So you used gasoline and a soldering iron to fix a hard brick........Interesting
Wouldnt happend to set it ablaze would you have mate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I waited until the petrol had completely dried off before using the soldering iron.
TheMadScientist said:
It was not hard bricked then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there was no sign of life.
Litblogger said:
Well, there was no sign of life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There must have been another issue at hand
AS mine is in Qloader9008 mode a true hard brick
TheMadScientist said:
There must have been another issue at hand
AS mine is in Qloader9008 mode a true hard brick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess so ?
Litblogger said:
I guess so ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey if your on zva you can use the hidden menu now to unlock dont need to flash nothing
TheMadScientist said:
hey if your on zva you can use the hidden menu now to unlock dont need to flash nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm...
I've tried the steps and my sim didn't work. I was thinking it was because I was on nougat.
Litblogger said:
Hmmm...
I've tried the steps and my sim didn't work. I was thinking it was because I was on nougat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea zva is the one it works on and you cannot downgrade to mm brick will occur....
TheMadScientist said:
yea zva is the one it works on and you cannot downgrade to mm brick will occur....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't you say ZVC upwards cannot downgrade?
Isn't ZVA lower than ZVC?
Litblogger said:
Didn't you say ZVC upwards cannot downgrade?
Isn't ZVA lower than ZVC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cant remember exactly but yes in gen you cannot go back to MM though which is like zv6 or 5
You would have to look in the do not downgrade thread
Related
My phone is rooted, but not unlocked and still on ZV8 because the ZV9 update always errors out. It has been crashing and rebooting frequently. Today it crashed and now it won't turn on in any mode. It's just a black screen no matter how long I try to hold down the power button. I can't even get into recovery or download mode. Is there any way I can fix it? Or at least unroot it and bring it to Sprint and get it repaired? Somebody please help.
abeckring said:
My phone is rooted, but not unlocked and still on ZV8 because the ZV9 update always errors out. It has been crashing and rebooting frequently. Today it crashed and now it won't turn on in any mode. It's just a black screen no matter how long I try to hold down the power button. I can't even get into recovery or download mode. Is there any way I can fix it? Or at least unroot it and bring it to Sprint and get it repaired? Somebody please help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You tried holding the power button and volume up at the same time? Is the battery dead?
Stealyourface said:
You tried holding the power button and volume up at the same time? Is the battery dead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It won't work whether I have it plugged in or not. It actually crashed while it was charging.
abeckring said:
It won't work whether I have it plugged in or not. It actually crashed while it was charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Were you doing anything to make it crash? Seems odd that it would just do this on its own just from being rooted and nothing else.
Stealyourface said:
Were you doing anything to make it crash? Seems odd that it would just do this on its own just from being rooted and nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was texting and it crashed. While plugged in it kept showing the lg screen flashing on and off, then I tried to turn it back on and it showed the ugly battery screen. Next I tried booting into recovery... didn't work. Then it booted into download mode, which I have no idea what it does. Then the screen went black, and now it doesn't do anything. Red light just stays lit when I plug it in, that's all I can do with it.
abeckring said:
I was texting and it crashed. While plugged in it kept showing the lg screen flashing on and off, then I tried to turn it back on and it showed the ugly battery screen. Next I tried booting into recovery... didn't work. Then it booted into download mode, which I have no idea what it does. Then the screen went black, and now it doesn't do anything. Red light just stays lit when I plug it in, that's all I can do with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just let it charge for a while then try the stuff in this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2082084
Stealyourface said:
Just let it charge for a while then try the stuff in this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2082084
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright I'll try. Any idea what will happen if I take it to Best Buy since it's rooted and I don't have insurance?
abeckring said:
Alright I'll try. Any idea what will happen if I take it to Best Buy since it's rooted and I don't have insurance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take it to best buy for a repair? From geek squad? They'll give you an expensive estimate.
Stealyourface said:
Take it to best buy for a repair? From geek squad? They'll give you an expensive estimate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the phone at Best Buy. Would bringing it to a Sprint Store be better?
abeckring said:
I got the phone at Best Buy. Would bringing it to a Sprint Store be better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea. I would take it to a sprint store first. And don't tell them it's rooted. But you should definitely be able to fix this problem yourself be following that thread I posted.
Stealyourface said:
Yea. I would take it to a sprint store first. And don't tell them it's rooted. But you should definitely be able to fix this problem yourself be following that thread I posted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright. Thanks.
Alright so the thing was fried. Sprint couldn't even bring the thing back to life. The guy told me it was the first time he'd ever see an Optimus G come in for repair. Costed $50, and they didn't have any refurbished ones so they gave me a brand new phone.
abeckring said:
Alright so the thing was fried. Sprint couldn't even bring the thing back to life. The guy told me it was the first time he'd ever see an Optimus G come in for repair. Costed $50, and they didn't have any refurbished ones so they gave me a brand new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that's not a bad price. Best buy would've been more expensive for sure.
Okay so i was on Marsh mellow 6.0.1 and then the tablet died due to battery running out. Once i rebooted it, it was stuck at the LG logo and said something like "No Secure Booting". It just froze. Then i got into download mode, opened LG Support Tool and tried Updating Software as i have had this exact problem before and this worked last time. However this time it got to around 83% then the tablet lost connection. Ive tried this multiple times now and every 4-5Mins it just disconnects.
However after many failed attempts it now doesn't enter download mode, doesn't make sound when connected to PC and doesn't show any life.
also cannot access TWRP
any help would be appreciated!
In Windows' Device Manager, does the tablet show up in the Modem or Ports section? If it shows up as "QHSUSB_BULK 9008", Google that and at least if you have a TOT file available for your particular model and variant, then you should be able to recover using directions/program you can find.
I have the same problem with a G Pad of mine. It was working fine, boot looped (with 50% battery) then switched off. No life at all, no amount of button combinations or charged plugging in will bring it back. I've resorted to finding a donor motherboard to see if it'll work with a new motherboard or if some other component is at fault!
Rackers said:
I have the same problem with a G Pad of mine. It was working fine, boot looped (with 50% battery) then switched off. No life at all, no amount of button combinations or charged plugging in will bring it back. I've resorted to finding a donor motherboard to see if it'll work with a new motherboard or if some other component is at fault!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you check what I said in my post previous to yours?
roirraW "edor" ehT said:
Did you check what I said in my post previous to yours?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Yes, nothing in device manager under Modem or Ports. I don't get any noise when I plug or unplug it either so the computer isn't seeing it.
Rackers said:
Hi,
Yes, nothing in device manager under Modem or Ports. I don't get any noise when I plug or unplug it either so the computer isn't seeing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sucks, mate. Sorry to hear that! Good luck with the motherboard angle.
Thanks, fingers crossed!
roirraW "edor" ehT said:
That sucks, mate. Sorry to hear that! Good luck with the motherboard angle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to confirm; new motherboard has worked, tablet is now back to life. Not sure what could have happened to the old one but I did buy this second hand and it was a prone crasher and the tablet had already been opened so who knows what they did to it.
Rackers said:
Just to confirm; new motherboard has worked, tablet is now back to life. Not sure what could have happened to the old one but I did buy this second hand and it was a prone crasher and the tablet had already been opened so who knows what they did to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good! Thanks for the update!
Rackers said:
Just to confirm; new motherboard has worked, tablet is now back to life. Not sure what could have happened to the old one but I did buy this second hand and it was a prone crasher and the tablet had already been opened so who knows what they did to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curios where you and aprox how much did you pay for the new hardware? Hopefully you it's not too rude of me to ask...
Thanks in advance
Sparks639 said:
I'm curios where you and aprox how much did you pay for the new hardware? Hopefully you it's not too rude of me to ask...
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all; I paid £50 for the new motherboard. Just luck of the draw somebody was selling a G Pad with a broken screen on eBay.
Thanks
Thank you, I'll keep an eye out.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Update!!
Currently got the tablet back into working order no replacement hardware needed.
Problem:
Tablet not responding to any user input or software detection. not charging and no life of any sort.
Solution:
( 1 )Charge tablet with a powerful legitimate LG charger (not a cheap Chinese knockoff).
( 2 )Leave on charge for at least 1 and a half days.
( 3 )Press power button to check if device powers, if not continue.
( 4 )Connect USB to PC, Press and hold Volume Up and Down simultaneously and insert USB into charger port.
( 5 )Download mode should appear and you'll be able to flash stock from LG Support Tools or LG Flash Tool
Disclaimer:
May not work for all as some problems may occur for different reasons.
~Happy Un-Bricking!
Hi all, ok tonight/this morning at work while on my break i went to do my usual thing of having food and watching a tv show via cartoon hd about 2mins in and my phone switched off.....now i thought it was dead so plugged in the charger but no led light, or screen on to say its charging.....i did a bit of googling and find out about the bootloop thingy buuuuut mines not looping, its swtiching on to the LG logo [i did the bootloader unlocker thingy etc so it says tha in the top corner] then it goes off.......i also get pulsing blue led lights too.....if i press, hold the power button after i get nothing, i have to take the battery out and then its rinse and repeat
Hi,
Same thing happened to me today. I was taking a shot and it switched off and same scenario.It seems that we had encountered an bootloader brick in which our device enters in some special bootloader mode in which when you connect it to the computer in the device manager it shows up as Qhsusb_bulk. I read the whole internet and there is a similar brick with G3 the guys were able to fix it. Even there is a tutorial on how to do this which I think is applicable to our device. I was able to install the required drivers and etc. but there is one big problem - I followed the guide and came into one serious problem - we need a special mbn file so we can recover our device and the sad thing is nobody on the internet doesn't have it still. There are many people like us who got selfbricked G4 and cannot fix it without this file. Please if somebody can help us please share the file so we can fix our devices. THANK YOU !
Link to the g3 unbrick guide
ive seen lots about the bootloop issue, but the thing is mine isnt doing a loop [i have to take the battery out/ pop it it back in, to switch it on then after 10-20 seconds on the LOGO it turns off
thewhisper said:
Hi,
Same thing happened to me today. I was taking a shot and it switched off and same scenario.It seems that we had encountered an bootloader brick in which our device enters in some special bootloader mode in which when you connect it to the computer in the device manager it shows up as Qhsusb_bulk. I read the whole internet and there is a similar brick with G3 the guys were able to fix it. Even there is a tutorial on how to do this which I think is applicable to our device. I was able to install the required drivers and etc. but there is one big problem - I followed the guide and came into one serious problem - we need a special mbn file so we can recover our device and the sad thing is nobody on the internet doesn't have it still. There are many people like us who got selfbricked G4 and cannot fix it without this file. Please if somebody can help us please share the file so we can fix our devices. THANK YOU !
Link to the g3 unbrick guide
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
on G2 you get security boot error phone is detected as QHUSb_BULK. on G2 the fix was to enter download mode. in G2 vol up then plug usb.
using TOT method and flash tools . flash stock firmware fixed my soft brick.
not sure about the file you mention, maybe you do need it..
jamious-daywalker said:
now i thought it was dead so plugged in the charger but no led light, or screen on to say its charging.....i did a bit of googling and find out about the bootloop thingy buuuuut mines not looping, its swtiching on to the LG logo [i did the bootloader unlocker thingy etc so it says tha in the top corner] then it goes off.......i also get pulsing blue led lights too.....if i press, hold the power button after i get nothing, i have to take the battery out and then its rinse and repeat
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the issue. I don't do anything special but my phone reboot and stuck on lg logo. But now my phone doesn't want to boot. Sometimes he detect when I'm trying to charge it but often not. Yesterday I boot on download mode and recovery but today it's impossible... I think I have some hardware issue ? Or software with the bootloader...
I don't know how to fix that without access to download/recovery mode :crying:
Same here. Sometimes it boots into recovery/download but most of the times it doesn't. It's a hardware problem I think as LG officially confirmed that there were problems during the building proccess of the first G4 series. I don't want to sound bad but soon or later all phones built before october last year will get into bootloop. I was hoping it won't happen to me - I'm very light user with only light standart apps with no games and other heavy stuff, so the problem wasn't caused by overheating by heavy multitasking. Anyway it happened and I'm pretty sure it's harware related but if somebody can provide the tot and mbn files I will be more than happy to try the g2/g3 unbrick method. The main problem is that these files are not available for h815. I found on other forum tot files for other variants than h815 So if somebody have the tot filesfor h815 please share so we can try to unbrick our G4. Thanks!
same thing heppened to my g4 this week. i called lg last night and they agreed to repair it. i'd just gave them a call.
I sent mine for repair today. I hope they will agree to repare it even that it's with unlocked bootloader and with rooted custom rom !!! What you think ? Will I have problems with them because of that ?
Happened with my phone as well. It was rooted so i was hella scared if they didn't accept my phone. But soon they told me phone's motherboard has gone bad and will be replaced. Got my phone with a brand new motherboard after a couple of hours.
P.s. all your data will be gone
Sent from my LG-H818 using XDA-Developers mobile app
clotveins said:
Happened with my phone as well. It was rooted so i was hella scared if they didn't accept my phone. But soon they told me phone's motherboard has gone bad and will be replaced. Got my phone with a brand new motherboard after a couple of hours.
P.s. all your data will be gone
Sent from my LG-H818 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the same problem just happened to my lg H815 with unlocked bootloader, am really f***ed without my phone, gonna call LG UK tomorrow, anything in particular I should say? also looking for solutions I saw many people are starting to have this issue now too - any official comments from LG?
P.S. if you have an LG G4 you should start backing up all your data now
This literally just happened in the last 15 minutes to me as well. Random reboot right after I woke up the phone and now stuck on the LG splash screen. Light user here, never did anything with the phone that would have heavily stressed it physically or computing-wise, so I also concur it's an inevitability for earlier runs of G4 phones.
Luckily, I backed up everything through TWRP last Thursday by chance because I was updating Xposed to the latest version and swapping to a faster 128GB microSDXC. At worst, I might have lost a handful of unimportant text messages.
Not worth the time to try to figure out any cheap fixes myself, I just got done submitting a repair request to LG.
I ordered LG G4 H815 and I hope to not see any kind of these issues
irishlad99 said:
So the same problem just happened to my lg H815 with unlocked bootloader, am really f***ed without my phone, gonna call LG UK tomorrow, anything in particular I should say? also looking for solutions I saw many people are starting to have this issue now too - any official comments from LG?
P.S. if you have an LG G4 you should start backing up all your data now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guy at service center said its internally communicated all LG G4's motherboard will have to be changed at least once.
And just say you dont know what happened exactly. Slept and in the morning my phone won't work
clotveins said:
Guy at service center said its internally communicated all LG G4's motherboard will have to be changed at least once.
And just say you dont know what happened exactly. Slept and in the morning my phone won't work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
at least once?? many had sent phone , then again having bootloop after repair..???
raptorddd said:
at least once?? many had sent phone , then again having bootloop after repair..???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have got my phone repaired for like 4-5 times. 3 times motherboard change, 1 time display change and 1 time volume button pannel change.
clotveins said:
I have got my phone repaired for like 4-5 times. 3 times motherboard change, 1 time display change and 1 time volume button pannel change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all under warranty?? not counting display? or did you get dead pixel?
raptorddd said:
all under warranty?? not counting display? or did you get dead pixel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. All under warranty and counting display replacement as well. No dead pixels as well and phone was rooted once during motherboard replacement
Sent from my LG-H818 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Hi folks,
I own a LG G4 AT&T version. Today, after charging to to 100%, I'd been using it normally, texting my friend. After taping the send button, I placed my G4 nearby and continued doing other stuff. & after sometime when I picked it up and double tapped the screen, it just didn't responded.
I pressed back button, I tried plugging charging cable to see whether LED is working or not, that was not working. I pushed out the battery and then put it back and tried turning on again and nothing happened at all. Its like still. Not responding at all. I tried the volume and power button combinations, tried hard reset, even tried connecting to PC and LG UP was unable to recognize, though it has all the necessary drivers installed.
I'm stuck badly, it was my daily driver, no warranty or official support in Pakistan, unfortunately.
is there any way at all to get it working or I should digest the bitter fact that its no more and move on?
Thanks.
Exact same thing happened to my wife's today... I'm at a loss. Still googling and searching this site.
Some reports of the ilapo bootloop have been the same. No nothin ded phones. In pc does it say unreconized.device or nothin at all or anything
420SYN said:
Exact same thing happened to my wife's today... I'm at a loss. Still googling and searching this site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sad to know, I, myself is at lost. Helpless.
TheMadScientist420 said:
Some reports of the ilapo bootloop have been the same. No nothin ded phones. In pc does it say unreconized.device or nothin at all or anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Connected to PC, PC does not say anything at all. As if device was never connected.
any other expert who can look into and can help us? any one ?
saaqibameen said:
any other expert who can look into and can help us? any one ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apke device bricked ha take it technician motherboard replace hoga karcha 20000 tak hota ha iska
jinderation said:
Apke device bricked ha take it technician motherboard replace hoga karcha 20000 tak hota ha iska
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seriously? in 20k, one can get a used LG G4. That's a huge loss
saaqibameen said:
seriously? in 20k, one can get a used LG G4. That's a huge loss
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Repaired n refurbished set Korean models only for 20k good condition factory stock cost aroud 24 international 25k ...take it technician see what he says
It does sound like a bootloop issue. Mine packed up last week and it is now on the way to LG repair centre here in UK. I was taking photos and put my phone into the pocket and when i took out I couldn't even turn it on. The phone was totally dead. However taking the battery out, putting it back in and trying to start the phone for numerous times it did eventually get into booting but of course it never goes past it due to motherboard failure. Try connecting to the charger and leave it for some time and maybe you'll get to boot screen but one thing for sure is that you can say all your data goodbye no matter how sad it is and LG bastards do not take any responsibility for it apart from replacing motherboard if it is within warranty.
Hey guys, phone was working fine this morning, a bit slow, but working. Went to check it at work and the screen wouldn't come on, nor would it turn on so I put it down to a dead battery.
Got home, plugged it in and no light was showing to show it was on charge, took the battery out, tried it that way as well, still nothing.
I'm going to assume the phone has just died on me or needs a new USB port (possibly) Any help is appreciated. I was on Resurrection ROM, LP (I think)
Any help would be great!
Edit, just plugged it into my computer and my computer picks the phone up, but it isn't shown in windows explorer, odd. Still no screen, charging or LEDS either.
CptUnicorns said:
Hey guys, phone was working fine this morning, a bit slow, but working. Went to check it at work and the screen wouldn't come on, nor would it turn on so I put it down to a dead battery.
Got home, plugged it in and no light was showing to show it was on charge, took the battery out, tried it that way as well, still nothing.
I'm going to assume the phone has just died on me or needs a new USB port (possibly) Any help is appreciated. I was on Resurrection ROM, LP (I think)
Any help would be great!
Edit, just plugged it into my computer and my computer picks the phone up, but it isn't shown in windows explorer, odd. Still no screen, charging or LEDS either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
look in windows device manager and see what is being picked up.
is it qualcommode9008 or something else u ma be a victim of the ilapo bootloop issue and may have to send it to lg for waranty
TheMadScientist420 said:
look in windows device manager and see what is being picked up.
is it qualcommode9008 or something else u ma be a victim of the ilapo bootloop issue and may have to send it to lg for waranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB it says "QHUSB_BULK" Assuming the phone is bricked now, no warranty and it's bootloader unlocked so it'd be void sadly.
CptUnicorns said:
USB it says "QHUSB_BULK" Assuming the phone is bricked now, no warranty and it's bootloader unlocked so it'd be void sadly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some peoples have claim obtaining waranty even with bl unlock..
if u were flashing roms and this happend id say try hardbrick fix.
But i would atleast try sending it in. Dont brag about the bl unlocked and they may do it. If not u decline paying for service and theyll send it back.
TheMadScientist420 said:
Some peoples have claim obtaining waranty even with bl unlock..
if u were flashing roms and this happend id say try hardbrick fix.
But i would atleast try sending it in. Dont brag about the bl unlocked and they may do it. If not u decline paying for service and theyll send it back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll have a look into that. No, I didn't do any sort of roms on the phone for over a year, just wouldn't turn on suddenly
CptUnicorns said:
I'll have a look into that. No, I didn't do any sort of roms on the phone for over a year, just wouldn't turn on suddenly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Worst they say is no. Nothing lost