Related
What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
I am not active in the Dream forum, but I will add my thoughts here.
Certain sections of XDA's forums are subject to stricter moderation then others due to the sheer volume of active members in them. For example, the Raphael has seen a US release on all three nationwide carriers, whereas the prior models only saw release on one carrier. This led to more people buying the Raphael, and a large influx of members in the related forums. Due to that influx, we moderators needed to step up our monitoring of those forums in order to keeping them as clean and concise as possible.
This same example applies to the Dream due to it being the first Android phone released.
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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NotATreoFan said:
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
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Just thought I would add my two cents in here ( like anyone cares ) because I too have been irritated once or twice by over zealous moderation. Once by a moderator from the Dream forum who came over to the Kaiser forum to delete a whole conversation, because he " thought " we were getting too heated in our debate over M$ supposed actions . There was no flamebaiting, He just thought.
And several times by threads ( not mine ) that were closed without warning or stated reason. I know this is a huge site with a lot of heavy traffic and the Mods are " overworked and under paid " . I also realize that Mods are from around the world, and Moderation style is subject to differing personalities, social and interpersonal customs from different countries. But common courtesy is universal. While many people don't deserve it, please take the time to include a note on why, the thread requires moderation. If you don't have the time , then maybe you should pass the job on to someone who can take the time.
Also in my 1 1/2 years on this site, ( six mo lurking and 1 yr member ) I have PM'd three mods, asking them to please explain their actions in moderating a thread I was posting in, and in all three cases, received nothing, not even an acknowledgement.
This is not a criticism, just my two cents, should someone read this. I have my favorite mods, (natf is one ) Dave and Josh are excellent in the Kaiser forums, mostly because they adhere to the basic tenet, " Moderation in Moderation. "
mikechannon said:
I realise you are being modest there, and the truth is we do care what members think and voicing concern in a calm fashion is appreciated and this kind of feedback is what moderates the Moderators. This is what makes us a community and avoids an "us and them" situation developing.
I don't have anything of value to add to NotATreoFan's comments which match my own feelings on the matter and IMHO reflect the kind of balance we need between being tolerant, courteous and yet maintaining a degree of organisation.
Mike
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Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
denco7 said:
Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
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AND they are simply men and women They could make mistakes, they act differently in the same situation. Suggestions and opinions are always welcome!
i reckon there should be a new button next to the report post button that serves as an appeal button if someone thinks that a tread has been closed for no reason the the button should allow for appeal. a box is filled n explaining the thread and why there was no reason to delete it this is then pmd to the closer of the thread then negotaiations will start
Please do not take my original post too harshly. I do appreciate the mods here on XDA-developers and think that they do a great job. But at the same time when the mods get a little over zealous this seemed the best way to bring up my protest. (I could not PM the moderator in question because I do not know who was closing the threads.)
So thanks again for making this a great place to come back to over the years and keep up the good work.
JanetPanic said:
What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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If you ask me there aren't enough locked threads in the dream section. There are over 80 different threads for the new haykuro build there, 80!!! Probably more because i stopped counting at page 20. I also might add that the main haykuro thread has over 6000 posts and counting. The dream section is out of control and needs serious moderator intervention. One moderator simply cannot do all this himself. I know the dream mod, or at least the only active mod there that i can see and he is excellent at not only helping people but moderating in general. Let a thread be self governed? That's a very scary though!!! I am a moderator at another site and i can say it is not a moderators job to be a friend, be respectful or give you an explaination as to why he or she did what they did. Yes i do give an explaination and most mods on here do as well but they are here to maintain the rules of the forum and the upkeep of the forum in general. If threads were locked its more than likely because you or others got off topic, double posted or started a new thread when another about the exact same thing already existed. Case in point, there is a section for members to post questions to mods about anything already and you opened a new thread on the subject.
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
knight4linux said:
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
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Haha yeah the sticky at the top about the rules says a little over 23,000 views. The hacking thread has been viewed over 300,000 times, go figure. I probably report 15 posts a day to try and help but your right its outta control.
Hello Friends,
Well i have seen these site and i am quite surprise here that though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.As i am not a active member but ya i will add my though if any and will discuss So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason. Thanx
can someone please unlock this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=429808&page=22
It is not that rules and regulations are not in place in this site. They are posted all over the place. In fact, if you look at my sig, I have them there as a hyperlink (many other members do the same). Why do threads and posts get locked, moved, or otherwise deleted left and right? It is because lots of users (particularly new ones but seasoned users also) do not read these rules. They do not know that they should search before posting or opening new threads; they do not know that there are sections to ask questions that are not relevant to the section they posted at; they do not know that profanity shouldn't be used around here due to a large young crowd; they do not know that flaming (particularly for no apparent reason) is strictly prohibited....
Moderators have little time to be messing around with people who simply do not understand that there are rules that must be followed (or read for that matter). Hence, they close the threads with no previous notice and at times, leave no excuse behind. They don't do it out of the content of their hearts, and they are definitely not watching over every single thread at all times. If you see a thread being closed, it is normally due to someone complaining about it, and more often than not, mods will analyze the trend of the thread and if necessary either warn users to stop, or just flat out close it (normally they warn unless the thread itself is breaking the rules... think of posting warez for instance).
I have yet to see abuse of power by a mod in this forum. And I am pretty sure that if there happens to be a mod that does abuse his/her God-given powers.... let's just say that they will be judged by a higher power
My 2 cents!
Although some moderators try and go out of their way to leave a message as to why they lock a thread, that is not their job. Our job is to make sure people are following the rules.
Here is a little scenario, i log on at night and jump over to the D&H section.... there i find 10 new threads asking questions.
A) I can delete the threads
B) I can close the threads by simply going through and checking every thread and then closing.
C) i can individually open each thread and leave a message for each person
D) i can wait for another moderator to do it
E) move the thread for them
Well i cant delete them or people will think their thread never got posted and just post it AGAIN. If you move peoples threads for them they think they can post anywhere and it will just be moved where it needs to go. I dont have time to open every thread and leave a message for every person everytime, and if i leave it for another moderator, it might not get done.
Really i am only left with checking all of the threads and closing them. if you have a question you can READ the rules, as it is your resonsibilty as a member, and find the answer. (Or of course you can pm a mod)
You guys have to remember that there are over 1,537,526 members on this site and around 66 mods and admin. We do our best to help you guys but we dont always have the time to write a personal letter for everyone of your and put it in you lunch box.
I agree (not that it matters). Mods have absolutely NO responsibility to post why they closed a thread...Why? Because they already are posted...in the rules up top. Its you, the new users that have the resposibility. That responsibility to read the rules before you post (RTFM). It even says at the bottom (of the rules) what will happen if they are not followed.
And by allowing multiple threads of the SAME simple questions (Especially in a phones development section) this completely ruins development and progress, not to mention this is a free and public forum. That means its hosted on servers, and these duplicate threads/posts start to add up.
Trust me. Frequent the forums for more than a few months and it'll start to wear on you too, almost as much as it does to the mods.
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
theslam08 said:
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
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That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
neoobs said:
That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
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Mhm, and you do what you can, I notice somethings being done by you, which is good that something is being done. I used to mod/administrate big places so I know what its like, its a pain when people cant search, or arent sure of where to post so they post anywhere (sometimes in the effort of 'just getting an answer').
This causes the clutter, especially when there are multiple 'different but very similar' type topics being created, and its tricky to know which to close and which not to close. Thats why I think maybe a separate forum 'might' be the best solution, because as of right now, bricks are happening pretty quickly and thats not good (no one to blame, just the anticipation again).
I appreciate the backing, hope 'something' can be done, its just really crowded right now (making the 'new' browsers get lost [causing the multiple similar topic issue], and your job harder).
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
Ryanmo5 said:
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
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Agreed 100%, it seems there are alot of stickies there, maybe redundant on some, but are necessary on others. There should be a way to make it distinguishable between information/guides, developments, and problems. They do need to be updated as well.
I agree, a forum might not be the best way because there might be 'lost' posts which would not work either (like the new magic thread that showed up, though I dont dissagree with that simply because the OP is correct, android is android, and the magic needs some help, maybe because we stole quite a bit from it too? lol. but still posting to 'get help' anywhere).
Is there a modification for vb that makes stickies different color than the regular topics? I never administrated vb only ipb and smf so I dont know. But that would be a big help there, then the new comers can instantly see which are informal.
Im trying to report, to help you so you dont need to spend as much time 'looking' as doing the task. Its not 'too' bad right now, when I first posted though omg it was disaster. Once the new rom comes out though....thennn its gonna be biig trouble again.
Update: I was looking at something...the first forum, named Dream. That I was actually looking at for the first time, it seems pretty useless really. A lot of the topics in there could definitely go into the development thread...OR that forum could get changed to something else and cleaned up. There arent many 'general' topics for the phone I dont think, whats general for the phone? What is the g1? Maybe but useless indeed. So maybe instead of MAKING a new forum, just change that one and clean it up. Make it a troubleshooting forum, or a tutorial section, or just updates, or something I dont know. But maybe just better use of it I think.
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
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Click to collapse
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
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deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
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Click to collapse
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.
1second, just let me get this right..
a user for just 4 months.. and he posts this as his first opinion about XDA, thats not good, thats not good at all
deathcipris said:
pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
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Click to collapse
yup, someone needs to actually do something about this.. (hint, no? ok...)
ill bring this to the attention of Admins today for you dude, i think that he will find this post very interesting...
i think this is @ rule 2.3 but not sure if it would fall under that or trolling, anyway a rep of the dev is destroyed by these sort of snide remarks/name calling comments so i think you have a very good bloody point.. "It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are!".....
(oh wait, i remember where.. they are out banning the devs and their hard work for rule 9..)
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn
raving_nanza said:
ps, 10 post rule is for bots, not noobs.
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Errr no it isnt. How do you work that out? lol
How in anyway would it stop or halt a bot?? And since when has bots been a issue specifically in dev forums??
@TheATHEiST oh well, i thought id read it somewhere.. must have been mistaken..
Rn
raving_nanza said:
...snip..
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn
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I thought I did. But I can be more direct if you please.
Moderators need your help. Which is why I asked for people to report problems they say. That being said, we are always evaluating forums to see if we need to allot more moderator resources to a particular forum. Again, we evaluate reported posts that come in to see if a forum is "getting out of hand." So it behooves you again to report posts. Also, you can contact the Administrators or the Moderators. And sometimes we do see with our own forum browsing that a forum needs help, but we can't be everywhere. We are constantly trying to improve XDA, and we always recommend your feedback.
FEEDBACK:
Admins know about this thread to show them OPs post.
The only reason i have picked up on this is because we are already speaking to the Admins about these issues, well.. something in relation to this issue.
i think it would be wise to place Forum Specific mods in the Android Rom Development.. for ALL devices, its the only way to stop this "trolling".
This kind of behaviour is not acceptable, its already got out of hand, and i aint even a Mod to know that - so who evers role it is to be in the Android forums, aint doing a good one
Rn
JimmyMcGee said:
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
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Click to collapse
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
doktornotor said:
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
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Click to collapse
LOL. Yeah, thanks for proving my point. Not to mention - quite a couple of people have already confirmed on the original thread that it does discourage them pretty heavily - but of course sticking your head into the sand rocks here, so lets just lock the thread )
Once again:
- Go recruit more moderators (60/4,000,000 == absolute fail!)
- Once done - go and uncripple the report code, i.e. - go use the darned DB information you already have in some way. Yeah really, you already have the information who is your forum-specific moderator, so use it! Oh really, I do mean it, use it - do not force people to dig into some ultrastupid Google Docs document with moderators list (why on earth you cannot use HTML at least is a question in itself). I really do not have time for your "distinguish" games. Do make use of what you have to make the process efficient, not to make it suck like hell as you have done.
P.S. And - while looking @ my PM. We do NOT need some nonsensical Like/+1 buttons or any of that ridiculous social-networking bubble crap, really. Definitely not until you sort out the above and replace the search with something working that does not confuse people like hell and gives them relevant search results.
I agree, that having to PM a moderator several times a day is not ideal.
Personal Example: At least over in the EVO 4G development forums, you have several [Q] posted daily despite a sticky saying not to and update rules sticky saying not to do such. On top of that, you have the flaming, personal attacks, and other hostile users daily as well.
I know out of three mods, I've only ever received a response or acknowledge from one. And that one is the only one I've ever seen take action to a thread that gets reported by myself and others. I don't always expect a response, but it does add a bit of a personal connection.
It became so out of hand, that I just gave up and had my main developer account deleted and I moved my work else where.
Wow 60 mods. Hum a bit short there don't you think. A forum this size needs allot more than that, especially if the admin want it to be " the premiere android site'
sent from my bolt
I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.
Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant
Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt
I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz
abn75 said:
Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I know the themes and mods you speak of and yes, I agree, not 100% user friendly. Sitting back on your laurels and letting it happen isn't the answer to seeing XDA becoming more productive, though.
At least if you report, you've done 'all you can' to help. Not much, but something
TheATHEiST said:
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and it is this attitude by the older members that gives the forum the reputation as not user friendly. Both noobs and experts alike could do better in that regard.
conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta disagree. Minor issues are not being dealt with at all on the forums I visit and quickly get out of control. Lost 2 devs in the last week due to it.
the_scotsman said:
I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and controutman are 2 of the most active mods I've seen on xda. I don't know that I've even seen our general mod even post or address any issue. I think that might be the problem. Not to mention that only 1 mod in any forum means that 90% of the time, you have no mod.
juzz86 said:
Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely disagree. I don't think this forum has grown that rapidly. It has been around since winmo smartphones. The focus has just shifted.
Now general forums are full of custom ROM related questions specific to one ROM (and usually not listed in the title). Maybe there needs to be a subsection of the dev section for questions related to specific ROMs. I've always thought that the most appropriate place for ROM related questions is that ROM. It just seems like the "experts" don't want to help the "noobs" out anymore. Yes it gets tiring answering the same question over and over again, but berating every new member for not being able to search a huge forum correctly is not the answer.
RoboCuz said:
I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the problem. People that don't have your common sense will hit that 10 post limit so fast, it is not really a hinderance.
For instance:
"lol 10char" is such a common phrase these days, I think people are using ctrl "v" do paste it on every thread...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.
nrfitchett4 said:
...snip...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree here, and this is something we have to deal with. I started on this Forum Back with WM6, so I've seen the change. And it definitely has caused a new user management learning curve. We are learning as we are going. It's not perfect, but we are not just sitting around doing nothing.
I wonder if I can solicit hard answers.
How many mods should we have?
How do we manage that many mods to ensure similar reactions from Mods?
How do we manage mods managers?
How do we implement this without having a large bureaucracy that slows down response time even more?
These are some of the questions we are dealing with. Believe me, I don't want anyone to thing we are ignoring their concerns, in fact many of us mods have the same concerns, but there are no easy answers. We are working through them Anyone is free to PM me with their concerns.
Also, you, as members of the forum are integral to the success of this site, if you see no action from your assigned Mod, please, let us know.
It's a good start I suppose. Here are some questions:
Does this change how users can report posts/users? Or is it still the troublesome bulky way of having to PM your forum mods and hope for the best? Sometimes days between reports and action?
Will we see more moderator involvement in the community, or will it continue to be a ghostland unless someone flashes the bat-signal for help? (I can only speak of EVO 4G forums).
In short: What should the average joe user who is, say, frustrated with [Q] in development for example, see in the upcoming days/weeks?
Hopefully this can stay on-topic
github said:
It's a good start I suppose. Here are some questions:
Does this change how users can report posts/users? Or is it still the troublesome bulky way of having to PM your forum mods and hope for the best? Sometimes days between reports and action?
Will we see more moderator involvement in the community, or will it continue to be a ghostland unless someone flashes the bat-signal for help? (I can only speak of EVO 4G forums).
In short: What should the average joe user who is, say, frustrated with [Q] in development for example, see in the upcoming days/weeks?
Hopefully this can stay on-topic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't necessarily a matter of days or weeks of when the new report system/mod involvement will roll out. The report system is being reworked to accommodate the mods and users alike. The old way was only beneficial to the users and create hassle for the mod team. This made it more difficult to deal with reports instead of simpler. The report system was made that way in the first place because, at the time, it was the right way to do it. As the user base exploded here, it became apparent that this was no longer viable.
The old report system dumped all reports into a massive pile and made it difficult to get to the important ones that needed immediate attention. This is why you now need to PM mods to address moving threads. That isn't an important issue as much as flaming, kanging, or warez is.
There is a new system in the works to address the issues that the old system raised as well as make it simpler for users to report posts. You'll just need to be patient while the kinks are worked out. Don't worry, good things come to those who wait.
As far as mod involvement, this is where the new [revised] site direction comes in. It's no longer an act of congress to ban or discipline someone. If a user does something retarded, he will be punished. It's that simple. However, not every mod can be in every place at once. That's the whole reason we have a report function. Especially if you see a forum needs deep cleaning, you should PM the forum mod first. If that doesn't work, PM any senior mod with your problem. There is also a Requests from the users to the mods and admins sticky thread here that you can utilize.
All in all, there are good things on the way. We just need to be patient while the kinks are worked out.
Even if I understand and respect the goal to provide better methods and tools for the admins and mods of this forums, I'd like to ask the question:
"Was it necessary to use the Iron Fist picture and publish it with this title?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist
In colloquial English, an "Iron Fist" refers to the authority exerted by a powerful, unforgiving governing figure, extended variously to public or private life, used to describe a person who operates under strictly authoritarian principles. Ex. "Josef Stalin ruled the USSR with an iron fist" ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ThaiDai said:
Even if I understand and respect the goal to provide better methods and tools for the admins and mods of this forums, I'd like to ask the question:
"Was it necessary to use the Iron Fist picture and publish it with this title?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They could have called it the "Turd Ferguson Project" for all I care. The name isn't important. However, this one being the Iron Fist that is set to unleash blows to those who think it's ok to use this site as their personal dumping ground seems fair to me.
github said:
Will we see more moderator involvement in the community, or will it continue to be a ghostland unless someone flashes the bat-signal for help? (I can only speak of EVO 4G forums).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having been a member of the X10 and now Arc forums since joining I welcome "Iron fist", and still believe there should be a week limit when you first join before you're allowed to post anything because that way it would encourage people to search more, along with having to actually read threads where the answer being looked for has been answered a thousand times already. In regards to githubs point, I'd like to see more of that too in the Arc section.
ALL moderators imo should 1. Actually own the phone of the forum they are moderating and 2. Be able to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to the forum, which might help with keeping the forums clean because they have an interest and a duty to keep on top of things.
cajunflavoredbob said:
They could have called it the "Turd Ferguson Project" for all I care. The name isn't important. However, this one being the Iron Fist that is set to unleash blows to those who think it's ok to use this site as their personal dumping ground seems fair to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Spot on.
XperienceD said:
ALL moderators imo should 1. Actually own the phone of the forum they are moderating and 2. Be able to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to the forum, which might help with keeping the forums clean because they have an interest and a duty to keep on top of things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Spot on. Our goal has been to assign mods to device forums that apply to them. When possible, we attempt to assign a few mods to each device forums such that time zone overlap occurs.
Some of the challenges we often encounter are:
Infrequent mod attendance; this is a volunteer (aka unpaid) role after all
Mods who switch to a new device at some point before a replacement mod is assigned - i.e. they now manage several forums
Obtaining quality mod candidates
Mods who decide to retire
ThaiDai said:
Even if I understand and respect the goal to provide better methods and tools for the admins and mods of this forums, I'd like to ask the question:
"Was it necessary to use the Iron Fist picture and publish it with this title?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was covered in the message:
Svetius said:
The name "Iron Fist" is a bit of an inside joke among the moderators--we are very clearly not an unyielding Gestapo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And, frankly, I'm glad they didn't call it the 'Turd Ferguson Project.'
mrkite38 said:
And, frankly, I'm glad they didn't call it the 'Turd Ferguson Project.'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "Allan Parson Project" seems a more befitting name
In reference to reporting any problem post/member, what I've been doing lately is keeping one of my Chrome tabs with the Forum leader List open.
If I encounter a problem post/flame, I create my pm with the links to the post/thread, my reason for reporting it and if the section does not have a mod to send it to, or if i think it needs immediate attention, I then refresh that Forum Leader list to see who is on at the moment and send out the pm to the mod. 9 out of 10, they get it within moments and take care of it, unless they log off by the time the pm is sent out. (or if they deem it not necessary to report).
There are times that even if a section has a mod assigned to it, some issues need to be taken care of immediately before it escalates into a much bigger problem and that is why I'm do the method above until the new reporting system takes effect.
TS out
twospirits said:
In reference to reporting any problem post/member, what I've been doing lately is keeping one of my Chrome tabs with the Forum leader List open.
If I encounter a problem post/flame, I create my pm with the links to the post/thread, my reason for reporting it and if the section does not have a mod to send it to, or if i think it needs immediate attention, I then refresh that Forum Leader list to see who is on at the moment and send out the pm to the mod. 9 out of 10, they get it within moments and take care of it, unless they log off by the time the pm is sent out. (or if they deem it not necessary to report).
There are times that even if a section has a mod assigned to it, some issues need to be taken care of immediately before it escalates into a much bigger problem and that is why I'm do the method above until the new reporting system takes effect.
TS out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good point. I try to only involve my forum mods, but I like your idea too. Depending on the issue sometimes I'll PM a few mods that I have known in the past to be pretty quick to take action and/or helpful overall.
I won't name any names, but one of them posted in here *cough* Thanks!
Hopefully Iron Fist is more like Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury!
Hopefully with less people making useless threads etc, the older members might also chill out a little.
Audionut11 said:
Hopefully with less people making useless threads etc, the older members might also chill out a little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately there are some "older" members that are causing just as much if not more trouble than their newer counterparts.
So 4 mods posted after my post here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276306&page=239
And I guess they didn't feel it was enough for "iron fist"?
Zeus... God of Awesome!
mattykinsx said:
Unfortunately there are some "older" members that are causing just as much if not more trouble than their newer counterparts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that.
XperienceD said:
Having been a member of the X10 and now Arc forums since joining I welcome "Iron fist", and still believe there should be a week limit when you first join before you're allowed to post anything because that way it would encourage people to search more, along with having to actually read threads where the answer being looked for has been answered a thousand times already. In regards to githubs point, I'd like to see more of that too in the Arc section.
ALL moderators imo should 1. Actually own the phone of the forum they are moderating and 2. Be able to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to the forum, which might help with keeping the forums clean because they have an interest and a duty to keep on top of things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Id like to respond to this as I'm currently moderating the Arc section.
I do not own the device but to be honest I spend far more time in the forumsi moderate than in the forums for devices I own.
Now, atm you may be thinking, "aye right, the place is a s×××hole"
You may be right as I haven't been around much in the past few days.
However under "normal" real life circumstances. All my forums are swept at least once a day. If I should miss anything then please do not hesitate to PM me.....
I make every effort to close/delete/m ove misplaced or duplicate threads but obv. some do get missed, simply because I cannot read every thread. Again, in such a situation or if you just want to discuss the way the section is moderated then please do PM me and let me know.....
I hope that addresses some of your concerns.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Hello fellow XDA-Users,
I have been a member of this forum for quite some time now, and currently spend my time in the Optimus 2X section.
People from there might recognize me from my guide on how to build cyanogenmod7 from source and some bits and pieces
from the O2X section.
Some of you might know, that LG delayed the update for this phone quite a bit, which brings me to the purpose of this
thread: The amount of spam and Off-Topic in the general section as well as the development section has blown up
insanely over the last 2-3 months, and this has caused a lot of tension between users and mods, among users and of course
users and devs. While, in case of the general section, this might be bearable, it is not for the dev section, since the real
devs can't work properly because all the useful information gets buried under the same questions and off-topic again and again.
Just recently, a mod was required to close a thread containing bleeding edge information and made it clear that he had no
intention of reopening it again.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I want to dump my thoughts for a solution in this thread. While
I don't know to which degree these can be implemented or if they might contradict the philosphy or user-rights of XDA,
I still want to post them. These ideas apply first and foremost to the dev section. I see the dev section as a read-only
section for anyone that doesn't have anything to contribute towards the development, no matter how long he has been
here or how many posts he already made. Therefore I propose the following mechanics to keep the dev sections clear of Spam.
Allow only recognized developers, contributors and the other verified ranks in the forums to start threads in the dev section.
This prevents off topic threads from being created in the first place. If someone new really wants to start a new thread because
he really has something useful to share, I imagine some sort of verification process where users can submit their threads and
moderators, or maybe even the parties allowed to post already, to review and approve the topics. This will create additional workload
on the moderators, but I believe it won't be that much more compared to the endless reports they are receiving right now. Also, allowing
a larger base of users (recognized contributors/developers) to approve the topics will reduce the workload even further.
To prevent the spamming of existing threads, apply the same strategy as mentioned above with the following changes:
For a specific threads, the thread starter (and possibly a list of users defined by the thread starter) can either approve single
posts or users in general to being able to post in the thread. The user, after being approved, will be able to post freely in the
thread, or maybe even in all threads by the approving thread starter.
I know these are very strict rules, but since they are only applied to the dev sections, I think they are worth considering, since it
will reduce all posts made in this section to those really dealing with dev stuff. Like I already mentioned, it may increase the workload
on whatever mods/users will have to approve. This gave life to my idea of expanding this userbase to the recognized developers/contributors
as well.
I see that my concept is anything but precisely laid out, but I think it represents a good base to create a system, that will make the
dev sections of this forum what they used to be: A place where developers can develop without having to read through pages of spam and
off topic and thus be more productive and less pissed off. The approval also puts another step into the process of thread/post creation
that might make users reconsider if they really want to post or perform a simple search first.
Thanks for your time!
Also, in order for this thread to be recognized, please give it a good rating. Thank you.
aMpeX
edit: Just to make myself clear again, this approach is far from perfect, but I believe with some input and discussion, we can make it so.
Please feel free to post your opinions, corrections or extensions to this idea.
I will try to collect some ideas from the discussion to summarize it here:
Inspired by anasdcool71's post:
Give OPs the opportunity to decide whether they want to moderate their thread, or accept any comment that is made during thread creation
by ticking a checkbox for example.
Hear, hear. I have said almost exactly the same thing myself before now and couldn't agree more with your thoughts. It's not an ideal solution, but maybe XDA need to take an uber-strict approach to stop this destruction by its own users.
this topic needs ofc a lot of discussion, expecially since i know neither about the capabilities of the code nor how the owners of XDA want to approach it.
I feel by starting this discussion we can iron out a system that works.
I feel that there is simply no other solution than being a little strict on the dev sections. Users still have enough room to post in the other sections, but in the dev sections, where all the magic happens, this is not helping at all, so I think it makes sense restricting these sections in that manner.
The 2 features are quite good, but still there are certain restrictions.
For the 1st point :-
You said that RCs, RDs and other verified ranks should be allowed to create a thread. Well, most RCs have been given the rank because of their polite and courteous nature throughout the site, and some of their work on guides, ROMs and kernels. RDs are kinda the same, just that their work is an expert one. So basically Senior Members or Members create threads for their ROMs and kernels in the dev section, and then if their work is good enough, they are appointed as RCs and RDs as per the requirement. So this feature cannot extend to only RCs and RDs as it may block the opportunities of other members to become one. Even if a Senior Member is allowed in this feature to create a thread, many good rom devs, who might be new to XDA, may feel the frustration to complete not 10, but 100 posts!
For the 2nd point :-
The OP of the thread might not know the user himself so he might not choose users correctly. Some users holding only the Junior Member or Member title might know a lot of info about that particular rom/kernel. Furthermore, this feature will really prove tiresome for the OP as there will be a lot of users waiting for his/her approval. And as far as the case for spam goes, the OP may inform the particular mod to remove the posts.
anasdcool71 said:
The 2 features are quite good, but still there are certain restrictions.
For the 1st point :-
You said that RCs, RDs and other verified ranks should be allowed to create a thread. Well, most RCs have been given the rank because of their polite and courteous nature throughout the site, and some of their work on guides, ROMs and kernels. RDs are kinda the same, just that their work is an expert one. So basically Senior Members or Members create threads for their ROMs and kernels in the dev section, and then if their work is good enough, they are appointed as RCs and RDs as per the requirement. So this feature cannot extend to only RCs and RDs as it may block the opportunities of other members to become one. Even if a Senior Member is allowed in this feature to create a thread, many good rom devs, who might be new to XDA, may feel the frustration to complete not 10, but 100 posts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know this approach wasn't the best. My chain of thaught was simply to try to restrict the userbase that can start a thread. To enable non RDs and RCs to start threads, I included the idea of an approval by either MODs and/or RDs and RCs. After a user has been approved once, he retains the right to start threads and post in the dev section.
I guess my bigger picture is to build a welldefined group of users allowed to post in the dev section, and also easen the way for this group to include new members, since I believe creating a new verified group and manage applications is just too much work.
anasdcool71 said:
For the 2nd point :-
The OP of the thread might not know the user himself so he might not choose users correctly. Some users holding only the Junior Member or Member title might know a lot of info about that particular rom/kernel. Furthermore, this feature will really prove tiresome for the OP as there will be a lot of users waiting for his/her approval.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is also a weak point of my proposition, my idea was to provide some sort of inbox where OPs can see the posts submitted and simply approve the ones he deems fit, thereby weeding out the useless information and SPAM. It is a lot of work ofc, but I, for one, would prefer a clean and moderated dev thread over one bloated with Spam.
Maybe one could let the OP decide which model he wants his thread to follow by, by simply ticking a checkbox during thread creation.
Interesting idea.
I believe I've brought up all of the above suggestions at some point or another (not dismissing or anything, just I have looked into this for a long period of time, several years now in fact!)
I'll try to summarise the benefits and disadvantages of each key suggestion:
1) Allow only "Recognized *" and above to make new threads in dev.
I'd love nothing more than this... The trouble is users wouldn't want it! They will complain if we implement this, since not every developer on XDA is an RD... Some may not have applied, some may have applied but not had it processed yet. Others may have applied and been accepted (but we only add the users to the RD group once per month to reduce time spent on it), and some may have been rejected for not meeting the criteria.
This would end up upsetting more people than it would benefit, causing more arguing and bickering from them
2) Restrict who can post in a thread.
This is what we already aim to do with the 10 post rule. The trouble is that if we raise it, it keeps out genuine contributors. If we lower it, we get crap through. Right now, we think 10 is about the optimum, but that's not to say we're not adverse to ever changing it if needed.
The issue with giving the OP control over who can post is that some people would abuse this. For example, I don't imagine many devs who would "approve" posts critical of their ROM, or giving negative feedback on it. Part of the way XDA works is it ensures that every thread is outwith the control of its owner, so feedback isn't being hidden or removed because it isn't agreed with by the OP of the thread. That's why XDA doesn't follow the trend of a few other sites to give thread owners moderator abilities in their own threads.
We've got a team of mods who are impartial and can deal with issues without considering if a post is "beneficial" to user perception of the developer or not (like a dev would do if he was approving posts).
We do constantly try to think of new ways to solve these problems, and you've given me a few new ones to think about
Thanks
maybe then we should focus on the part of my idea that easens the entry into the group of users that are allowed to posts, not necesarily tieing it to the RC RD status, but unblocking the restrictions individually and extending the committee to administer these admissions from MODs and Admins to RD/RCs.
This would require a one-time effort by new devs, submitting their new ROM/thread to the dev sections, and having it approved by aforementioned group.
pulser_g2 said:
2) Restrict who can post in a thread.
This is what we already aim to do with the 10 post rule. The trouble is that if we raise it, it keeps out genuine contributors. If we lower it, we get crap through. Right now, we think 10 is about the optimum, but that's not to say we're not adverse to ever changing it if needed.
The issue with giving the OP control over who can post is that some people would abuse this. For example, I don't imagine many devs who would "approve" posts critical of their ROM, or giving negative feedback on it. Part of the way XDA works is it ensures that every thread is outwith the control of its owner, so feedback isn't being hidden or removed because it isn't agreed with by the OP of the thread. That's why XDA doesn't follow the trend of a few other sites to give thread owners moderator abilities in their own threads.
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I agree totally about the 10 post limit.. As i have seen many examples of the spam/useless post by newbies/noobs who post in dev section... As our samsung galaxy y duos dev section when created had not got this restriction on it (just an accidental miss i feel).. but its corrected now.. so i have seen how worse it may get if this limit is revoked.. and i have been thinking of an idea as many times i have come across new users complaining that they know about android stuff and they wanted to help dev in development and by the time they complete 10 useful post routine valuable time will be wasted etc... So i thought of this idea when i read the op's message in this thread...
How about providing OP a option to exclude a newbie member who has not made a single post yet to make posts in dev section..? So that if the dev feels/knows the user will be good for his thread and he can contribute to development?
and lets also put another rule to keep spammers away.. as there is a loop hole in my suggestion.. which is when a spammer may create 2 accounts and in one account he will obtain 10 posts and create a thread in dev section.. then spam the thread with another account by making him exception..
So we can add this option to OP of the thread only if the thread has been say one month / one week old... as this will make sure that the thread is not created for spamming and thus it also ensures actual development is going on in the thread and the dev is known.. this exclusion is only for that thread on dev sub forum.. i dont know this may be a too much workload on server..
I was suggesting this exclusion method because i have seen around 5-10 members who PM me whenever they have some issue with my kernel or any other rom related to my device for that matter... i am happy and i have no issues to help them at all.. i have also kindly suggested them to make 10 valuable/useful posts in Q & A section and post in my threads instead of M as it might help other users too who may have same issue/doubt.. but i really cant say it directly into their faces and they may not understand my point ... so i have been interacting with such users through PM and i feel they should have interacted more with forums instead of just one person.. and there might be many others who might have contacting through PM only..
So please consider this..
Also this really is a great suggestion too...
anasdcool71 said:
@pulser_g2 - The if-else statement in your sig is really great. :good:
And I've come up with a request. I've seen that many new users don't actually know/get the reason behind the 10-post limit. I'm not talking anything particularly about spammers, but there are some good users who just don't know the reason. I've just seen so many posts in so many threads saying "this 10-post limit is so frustrating","i have to PM the dev","i can't even report a bug",etc. Not one or two or 10, but many posts like this. So my request was that they'd be directed to that thread "10-post count limit in development fora", after they register. I'm sure many of them will understand. After all, it isn't that hard to get to 10 posts.
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It's an eternal problem than,us, Admins,Mods and all Recognized Tribe against which we are constantly fighting.
In the RC'stribe, we try to think and are trying to find solutions that would enable to reduce the number of useless posts.
I says reduce, cause we can't delete all of these posts.
But the real problem, it's a mentality problem due to Internet.
Actually, with Internet, people can and wanting all, now and quickly. I'm writing a question, I want my answer now!
A large majority of users don't take the time for read and seek. They want everything quickly and now.
And against this fact, we cannot fight!!
For whoever mentioned it, the ten post message does link and explain why... But nobody reads it...
pulser_g2 said:
For whoever mentioned it, the ten post message does link and explain why... But nobody reads it...
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Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
philos64 said:
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
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i think he means the 10 post limit sticky thread is already linked and also its explained why its there but still no new user reads it..
philos64 said:
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
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I mean that someone mentioned perhaps making it clearer to users why they can't post etc...
I replied to say that the message already explains this and links them to a thread with information
pulser_g2 said:
I mean that someone mentioned perhaps making it clearer to users why they can't post etc...
I replied to say that the message already explains this and links them to a thread with information
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Sorry @pulser_g2
But I understand what you mean
It's better clear. Thanks
I find it useful hearing people combo's and results i know it can be redeemed 'as hard to the teams'
but end of the day there full grown men there not going to lose sleep over it it will just make them work harder right?
Anyone just my opinion whole point in this is to see others opionon
I'm so confused right now.....
I remember there was a thread in Galaxy S2 section named "Whats your best combo for S2" . It was highly participated and even mods didn't removed it .
maxpower7 said:
I'm so confused right now.....
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No idea whats happening here
Why do people have to be so cryptic? This makes absolutely no sense to me either.
what ban?
this thread should be removed.
I think OP is referring to the forum rule that we can't have a thread dedicated to discussing which are the best kernels.
Whelan189 said:
I find it useful hearing people combo's and results i know it can be redeemed 'as hard to the teams'
but end of the day there full grown men there not going to lose sleep over it it will just make them work harder right?
Anyone just my opinion whole point in this is to see others opionon
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If this confusing mass of words is asking why "best rom/best kernel" threads aren't allowed, it's because it's a highly subjective topic without a right or wrong answer. Your mileage may vary, as they say. Also, by allowing this type of thread, the moderators could be seen as favoring one developer over another. This is a place where development is encouraged and devs would not be happy with someone else's work being promoted above theirs. Because of the subjective nature of the topic (and the fact that there are undoubtedly thousands or even millions of possible setups), it doesn't add anything to the community to ask for people to spoonfeed you what works best for them. Do some flashing and figure out what works best for YOU, not someone else.
It is only logical to have that ban. If the ban would be lifted, users will continuosly praise one or few developers, and discouraging users from trying other kernels. Without users, devs would not be motivated to contribute. Less contributions = less inovations and in the end-effect stagnation of development. Devs respect and cooperate with each other.
Read the development threads, try the kernels your self, and decide what is best for you.
not to mention that all that will happen is you will just get a listing of all the kernels and roms, since people will list what they use. and on top of that, everyone thinks that the rom and kernel that they are using is the best rom/kernel. eventually people start arguing, and the thread will get closed anyways. there is no best kernel or rom. we all have differing needs, and they all react differently on our differing devices.
maxpower7 said:
If this confusing mass of words is asking why "best rom/best kernel" threads aren't allowed, it's because it's a highly subjective topic without a right or wrong answer. Your mileage may vary, as they say. Also, by allowing this type of thread, the moderators could be seen as favoring one developer over another. This is a place where development is encouraged and devs would not be happy with someone else's work being promoted above theirs. Because of the subjective nature of the topic (and the fact that there are undoubtedly thousands or even millions of possible setups), it doesn't add anything to the community to ask for people to spoonfeed you what works best for them. Do some flashing and figure out what works best for YOU, not someone else.
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^^^This is really a very solid answer to why we do not allow them on xda^^^.
If you want the short answer.
Trying out ROMs yourself is part of what XDA Developers is about. If you're too lazy to do this and would like others to do it for you, this website might not be for you.
So this really is not open for debate and no poll or petition is going change our stance on this.
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