Hello all,
The recent discussions on xda and r/rMoto_Z about battery chargers and questions concerning whether or not a TurboPower 30 charger is it worth it to us Z Play users prompted me to do a quick test comparing the chargers.
What I found is my TurboPower 30 is not charging any faster than the TurboPower 15 that came with the phone. I am using tasker (I'm a tasker noob BTW) to log the time and battery level to a Google Sheet upon a change in battery level. I discharged the phone to 14% both times, shut it down, let it cool, turned it on, then plugged in without touching it during the charging process.
Overall, both chargers behave the same. Both charge at a rate around 1.1% to 1.15% charge per minute until the 90-92% mark, where they slow down drastically.
The TP15 took 90 minutes to charge, while the TP30 took 95 minutes to charge.
So what's going on here?
Is my phone malfunctioning?
Is my charger(s) malfunctioning?
Am I stupid and/or missing something?
Can the Z Play even make use of the extra amperage from the TP30?
I'm at a loss here. I could have sworn the TP30 seemed faster, but maybe not.
Can anybody else confirm the same behavior from their chargers?
I can provide a link to a graph and the google sheet itself once I get past the 10 posts required before posting outside links.
I have the Z Play and the Z Force. Using the 30 watt charger on the Play still only charges it at about the same rate as the 15 watt charger. Not sure of the reasons just saying the results I have gotten.
Motorola probably put a limit on that
Charging from 30% to 50% took just a few minutes but phone got really really hot... I'll stick to charging with my 10w ipad adaptor... Decently fast and phone stays cool :good:
TurboPower 30 i guarantee only reaches 30 watt output over 12 volts. Our phone only accepts 5v at 3 amps max (you can force it, but you will probably ruin a component). This is due to thermal restrictions and to help preserve the battery from degrading faster than normal due to heat. With my moto x pure I recieved a turbopower 25 which charged my phone (which is about the same size as this one) at 12v ~2.1 Amps and the phone was already thermal throttling while charging. With a phone that lasts 2 days already Lenovo probably figures you can top your phone off when you have time to, and even then charging at 15 watts is still pretty quick if you really need to charge your phone in a hurry. More power going in = more heat put out due to inefficiencies. This will change whenever we get superconductors figured out and can have ~100% efficiency, but that will (probably) take a while, and even then take longer before it trickles down to consumer products.
jon7701 said:
TurboPower 30 i guarantee only reaches 30 watt output over 12 volts. Our phone only accepts 5v at 3 amps max (you can force it, but you will probably ruin a component). This is due to thermal restrictions and to help preserve the battery from degrading faster than normal due to heat. With my moto x pure I recieved a turbopower 25 which charged my phone (which is about the same size as this one) at 12v ~2.1 Amps and the phone was already thermal throttling while charging. With a phone that lasts 2 days already Lenovo probably figures you can top your phone off when you have time to, and even then charging at 15 watts is still pretty quick if you really need to charge your phone in a hurry. More power going in = more heat put out due to inefficiencies. This will change whenever we get superconductors figured out and can have ~100% efficiency, but that will (probably) take a while, and even then take longer before it trickles down to consumer products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the TurboPower 30's max output is 5v @ 5.7a, hence the large fixed cable.
Motorola lists the TurboPower 30 as compatible with all Moto Z devices. I took "compatible" as meaning I will receive the full output on a Z Play. If that's not the case, then Motorola should specify as such. I mainly just want to find out if my issue is by design or isolated to me.
l3rewski said:
Actually, the TurboPower 30's max output is 5v @ 5.7a, hence the large fixed cable.
Motorola lists the TurboPower 30 as compatible with all Moto Z devices. I took "compatible" as meaning I will receive the full output on a Z Play. If that's not the case, then Motorola should specify as such. I mainly just want to find out if my issue is by design or isolated to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surprising that its actually at 5 volts tbh, since manufacturers were moving to 5, 9, and 12 volt standards for quick charging (not sure why the higher voltage instead of higher amperage). It would be by design though as the thermal restrictions still stand. The phone would have a hard time disipating all the heat generated (unless you suspended it by a string in mid air and had a fan blow on it :laugh and it could degrade the battery faster (due to heat). It is technically compatible in that will charge the phone and quick charge it at 15 watts, but it will not go up to 30 watts. It could be useful in the future when more laptops have thunderbolt 3 or 4 ports and you could use it for that .
jon7701 said:
Surprising that its actually at 5 volts tbh, since manufacturers were moving to 5, 9, and 12 volt standards for quick charging (not sure why the higher voltage instead of higher amperage). It would be by design though as the thermal restrictions still stand. The phone would have a hard time disipating all the heat generated (unless you suspended it by a string in mid air and had a fan blow on it :laugh and it could degrade the battery faster (due to heat). It is technically compatible in that will charge the phone and quick charge it at 15 watts, but it will not go up to 30 watts. It could be useful in the future when more laptops have thunderbolt 3 or 4 ports and you could use it for that .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what specifically in the design of the Z Play creates thermal restrictions greater than that of the Z Force? And what makes you believe the TurboForce 30 charger will charge other devices at ~30w? Is it a USB Power Delivery spec charger?
Regardless of all this, I still find the product description disingenuous. I would have simply gone with a standard (and cheaper) 15w USB-C- charger had I known this.
l3rewski said:
So what specifically in the design of the Z Play creates thermal restrictions greater than that of the Z Force? And what makes you believe the TurboForce 30 charger will charge other devices at ~30w? Is it a USB Power Delivery spec charger?
Regardless of all this, I still find the product description disingenuous. I would have simply gone with a standard (and cheaper) 15w USB-C- charger had I known this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is disingenuous to an extent, they didnt lie to you when they said it would work, but they just didnt tell you that it wouldnt charge at the full 30 watts (maybe there was an asterisk for it?). From the little bits of research I did on the moto Z force forum, it seems that it does follow USB-PD, but I dont know much about USB-PD specs or Qualcomm quick charge specs honestly. The only real advantage the Z force has in terms of helping with heat disipation is the aluminum backplate it has vs our glass backplate, it could also have some extra copper inside of it to help spread the heat around as well. Aluminum transfers heat better then glass does which allows it to have more wiggle room in terms of thermal restrictions, but I bet you the phone still gets really hot while turbo charging especially at 30 watts. Since it seems to follow USB-PD spec that would mean that if another device that follows that spec (a laptop with USB type-c thunderbolt 3?) and requests that much power then yes, it should work.
and then, what is the exact charger for Moto Z2 Force ? 15 (included in package), or 30 ?
Related
Ok, so I have an AT&T SIII running AOKP (was on CM 10, waiting for a bit better 10.1 stability in the Bluetooth department). I just found out how awesome the PS3's Dualshock 3 controller is for gaming on android. I'm considering purchasing a GameKlip for it.
-Anyway-
I know that the SIII's charging rate is capped somewhere between 750-1000 mA. I did some searching here on XDA, and it seems that buying a 2A charger wont charge the phone any faster because the charge rate is capped by the phone. I get that. My problem is that my phone will discharge 10% or more per hour on AC power (OC'd, brightness up, PS3 controller) while I'm gaming. I also understand that concept.
My question is: If I use a 2A charger, will the potential excess power prevent the phone from discharging while gaming, or will it be irrelevant? I assume the former.
While everyone is on the same topic, what is the highest charging rate that OEM's typically allow? Does say, HTC or Motorola tend to have higher rates? I'm not against switching to another phone (or carrier if I have to) if it means no discharging while gaming. The way it sits, if my battery is already low from using it during the day, and I come home from work to play some games, the battery will just die even though it's plugged in. Seems counter-intuitive to me. Other than this issue, I have my battery usage down to a SCIENCE, and I usually have idle drain less than 1%/hour while on WiFi with MINIMAL wakelocks. I think because of that, this drainage thing really drives me nuts!
What do you guys think?
Thanks!
- And yes, the poll question assumes you are on AC power.
rytymu said:
Ok, so I have an AT&T SIII running AOKP (was on CM 10, waiting for a bit better 10.1 stability in the Bluetooth department). I just found out how awesome the PS3's Dualshock 3 controller is for gaming on android. I'm considering purchasing a GameKlip for it.
-Anyway-
I know that the SIII's charging rate is capped somewhere between 750-1000 mA. I did some searching here on XDA, and it seems that buying a 2A charger wont charge the phone any faster because the charge rate is capped by the phone. I get that. My problem is that my phone will discharge 10% or more per hour (OC'd, brightness up, PS3 controller) while I'm gaming. I also understand that concept.
My question is: If I use a 2A charger, will the potential excess power prevent the phone from discharging while gaming, or will it be irrelevant? I assume the former.
While everyone is on the same topic, what is the highest charging rate that OEM's typically allow? Does say, HTC or Motorola tend to have higher rates? I'm not against switching to another phone (or carrier if I have to) if it means no discharging while gaming. The way it sits, if my battery is already low from using it during the day, and I come home from work to play some games, the battery will just die even though it's plugged in. Seems counter-intuitive to me. Other than this issue, I have my battery usage down to a SCIENCE, and I usually have idle drain less than 1%/hour while on WiFi with MINIMAL wakelocks. I think because of that, this drainage thing really drives me nuts!
What do you guys think?
Thanks!
- And yes, the poll question assumes you are on AC power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, I've been using a 2A Charger since i purchased my phone three months ago. Im using the one from the nexus 7, but to answer your question.
I've noticed no difference in discharging using the 1A vs the 2A, the only factor that can that is your kernel and rom.
Since i've switch to a ktoonz kernel my battery life is improved by 75%. (using custom settings)
Also can i suggest possibly looking at a extended battery pack? I have both the gorilla gadgets and the hyperion. Both are amazing i was able to get 3 days on it, under heavy gaming 1.5 days.
Im using only a 3150maH battery right now, as i stopped gaming on my phone, bought a sick computer.
Funnily enough, I also use a DualShock 3 with my device on occasion, normally while on AC power. I've never noticed any power dips, but that may be because I'm not particularly pushing the device to its limits in the process.
Anyway, I think the meat of the matter is this: does the phone limit the amount of current entering via the micro-USB port (which is then split between battery charging and normal device usage), or does it limit the amount of current going into the battery? If it's the latter (which I'd consider more likely, given that the micro-USB port is expected to handle at least 1.8A), then you'll notice a benefit from using a more powerful charger under the circumstances. I don't actually know if that's the case, though.
Does your kernel support quick-charge? I don't know the science behind it, but it allows me to charge my phone from dead to 100% in less than half the time it normally takes.
exodus454 said:
Does your kernel support quick-charge? I don't know the science behind it, but it allows me to charge my phone from dead to 100% in less than half the time it normally takes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does, but I thought fast charging only makes USB charging the same rate as AC charging (plus I heard it can permanently damage the USB interface)... Therefore my understanding is that the hardware charge cap still applies.
So I have the wireless charging mod and I have several wireless chargers “All the same brand and model” I mostly only use two. The one beside my bed and the one at work. I know this is going to sound crazy but when I use the charger beside my bed and charge to %100 the battery life is not nearly as long. It is enough to be VERY noticeable I have tested and compared like 6 times. Charging on both to 100% and just let the phone sit for an hour and when it is charged by the one beside my bed it drains about 20% faster. Can a charger effect battery life in this way????
Based on my experiences... yes!
enetec said:
Based on my experiences... yes!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never had that happen till now. I wonder if that particular charger is going bad or something
X_man. said:
I've never had that happen till now. I wonder if that particular charger is going bad or something
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Experiment... swap the chargers? bring the work one home and vice versa? maybe different mains or "dirty mains" could be the culprit? see if the issue follows the charger or area?
Uzephi said:
Experiment... swap the chargers? bring the work one home and vice versa? maybe different mains or "dirty mains" could be the culprit? see if the issue follows the charger or area?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea! I'll do that next week and post what happens.
X_man. said:
Great idea! I'll do that next week and post what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any time. I personally ran into that. It wasn't 20% more like 5% (average 3hr drain on my old Rezound was 2hrs and 45mins when charged from work. It was due to ingress on my work's lines that wasn't there at home. We had little oddities with some PC's until we found the UPS for our server was causing noise on our circuits).
This is absolutely normal. I build custom vape systems, some on li-poly Batts, some on li-ion. In both cases, charge rate -can- drastically affect charge effectiveness.
Most of this in your case likely has to do with thermal reads. Remember, not only is your phone and charger loaded with chips to be smart and safe about the charge, the battery (and sometimes individual cells within it) are also microchipped. Wireless charging creates a lot of heat. Should any one of the three components recognize this heat as excessive, the voltage will drop. I _believe_ this is most relevant during the end of "saturation" phase during charging, because if the battery says "no" during this phase, or anytime after (during completion/final) , the charger's subsequent "topping-charge" will also be denied. This kind of results in cycle of the charger saying "take it!" , The battery saying "no", dropping the voltage, the charger seeing the drop and expecting it to need a top-off and immediately trying to push again, repeat. The reason you're seeing the difference is because the charger is getting it's numbers from current output from the battery. The battery can drop down to zero current when overheated to prevent thermal rail? From occurring, which the charger then translates " 0 current must mean full".
That's one part of the difference, and not necessarily what is occurring... The other part has to do with manufacturing intent. Most USB 3.1/c power supplies are actually pushing out the maximum amperage and thus has a huge stage-1 charging state, with a minimum stage-2 (saturation) charging state. This basically translates into , your charger and phone are both lying when you rapid charge.
I'm sure I'm missing some facets or misrepresenting them here as I can't remember all the damn physics, but short story is: for absolute saturation, battery life, battery runtime, and safety... Charge at the same rate as battery discharge.
Edit: also what Uzephi mentioned about dirty power is also relevant. When power factors are not near 1.0 (1:1, meaning everything drawn is used, and everything requested is given), bad sh*t happens. This actually relates to the physical wave (sinusoidal) of electricity. All the anomalies are probably listed somewhere by some physicist, but suffice to say, there's a lot of possibilities, none of them "good" when out-of-phase power factors occur. This is why sensitive equipment almost always gets run through a power conditioner. The more sensitive and volatile the system, the more aggressive the conditioner needs to be (hence massive amplifiers for sound systems like the ones I use in my work need $200 glorified power strips).
Some_Donkus said:
This is absolutely normal. I build custom vape systems, some on li-poly Batts, some on li-ion. In both cases, charge rate -can- drastically affect charge effectiveness.
Most of this in your case likely has to do with thermal reads. Remember, not only is your phone and charger loaded with chips to be smart and safe about the charge, the battery (and sometimes individual cells within it) are also microchipped. Wireless charging creates a lot of heat. Should any one of the three components recognize this heat as excessive, the voltage will drop. I _believe_ this is most relevant during the end of "saturation" phase during charging, because if the battery says "no" during this phase, or anytime after (during completion/final) , the charger's subsequent "topping-charge" will also be denied. This kind of results in cycle of the charger saying "take it!" , The battery saying "no", dropping the voltage, the charger seeing the drop and expecting it to need a top-off and immediately trying to push again, repeat. The reason you're seeing the difference is because the charger is getting it's numbers from current output from the battery. The battery can drop down to zero current when overheated to prevent thermal rail? From occurring, which the charger then translates " 0 current must mean full".
That's one part of the difference, and not necessarily what is occurring... The other part has to do with manufacturing intent. Most USB 3.1/c power supplies are actually pushing out the maximum amperage and thus has a huge stage-1 charging state, with a minimum stage-2 (saturation) charging state. This basically translates into , your charger and phone are both lying when you rapid charge.
I'm sure I'm missing some facets or misrepresenting them here as I can't remember all the damn physics, but short story is: for absolute saturation, battery life, battery runtime, and safety... Charge at the same rate as battery discharge.
Edit: also what Uzephi mentioned about dirty power is also relevant. When power factors are not near 1.0 (1:1, meaning everything drawn is used, and everything requested is given), bad sh*t happens. This actually relates to the physical wave (sinusoidal) of electricity. All the anomalies are probably listed somewhere by some physicist, but suffice to say, there's a lot of possibilities, none of them "good" when out-of-phase power factors occur. This is why sensitive equipment almost always gets run through a power conditioner. The more sensitive and volatile the system, the more aggressive the conditioner needs to be (hence massive amplifiers for sound systems like the ones I use in my work need $200 glorified power strips).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some very good points! Doesn't seem quite as strange now LOL Thanks!
@Some_Donkus than for your complete explanation...
I've found even "about same rate" chargers (measured on phones...) often differs in heating battery: on my old Moto Z, the OnePlus X charger and the Samsung Galaxy Tab one both charged my phone (quite fast...), BUT the first heated it A LOT more, while the second hot A LOT itself!!
I think it's related to components quality too...
What I don't undestand well is why the Incipio MotoMod battery, which charge the phone at quite low rate, is able to heat it more than fast chargers....!?!?
enetec said:
@Some_Donkus than for your complete explanation...
I've found even "about same rate" chargers (measured on phones...) often differs in heating battery: on my old Moto Z, the OnePlus X charger and the Samsung Galaxy Tab one both charged my phone (quite fast...), BUT the first heated it A LOT more, while the second hot A LOT itself!!
I think it's related to components quality too...
What I don't undestand well is why the Incipio MotoMod battery, which charge the phone at quite low rate, is able to heat it more than fast chargers....!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without knowing the specific charge voltage and stage setup of the individual batteries it's tough to speculate. One thing that comes in mind relates back to the power factors I was speaking of. It might actually be a high quality device that just has a lot of extra MOSFET + capacitors built in. These are used in order to "clean and manage" power on the fly. Capacitors are used to provide extra little bumps of discharge / supply when the battery cells themselves can't necessarily output enough mA/amp in a peak. MOSFETs do the opposite, providing a safe gateway for extra unused power either coming into the device from the battery, or from outside power to charging battery...
Both of these little guys basically are giant heat retainers (MOSFETs actually usually have heatsinks pasted to them, even the micro sized ones used in small devices)....
Just a thought.
Some_Donkus said:
...
Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it surely could be but two weird things still happen with Incipio battery MOD (and, they say, NOT with the new Turbo Power which do fast charging instead! ):
- the overheat seems to be coming from the phone and not from the battery MOD...
- the Incipio battery MOD I have adds wireless charging too to the phone. What it's weird is that wireless charging phone (by the same rear connector on the phone) seems to overheat it less than using battery to charge it... (and battery charge rate is a bit lower...).
I think it could be related from the fact that battery MOD has probably to raise his voltage to charge phone... but strangely this overheats more phone than battery...!
enetec said:
Well, it surely could be but two weird things still happen with Incipio battery MOD (and, they say, NOT with the new Turbo Power which do fast charging instead! ):
- the overheat seems to be coming from the phone and not from the battery MOD...
- the Incipio battery MOD I have adds wireless charging too to the phone. What it's weird is that wireless charging phone (by the same rear connector on the phone) seems to overheat it less than using battery to charge it... (and battery charge rate is a bit lower...).
I think it could be related from the fact that battery MOD has probably to raise his voltage to charge phone... but strangely this overheats more phone than battery...!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohhh, I see what you're saying...
Okay well, from what I understand, the Incipio Wireless mod actually charges the phone's battery first, THEN the pack within the mod. By default, magnetic induction (wireless charging method) actually will charge everything and anything within the field simultaneously.. but.. what I assume the incipio mod does is this....
Wireless charger sends out induction wave > (Induction wave charges both internal battery and mod for a moment) > Incipio mod get's a mV current reading from phone's internal battery > If internal phone battery mV current is ≠ 0, Incipio mod uses MOSFET's to gate-drain incoming charge from wireless for X amount of time (and possibly send charge to internal battery via connectors) + > induction wave continues to charge internal phone battery > Incipio takes another mV current reading from phone battery to see if it's full >>>
Cycle continues until Incipio gets mV current reading = 0, at which point it stops using gate-drains and accepts induction wave charge.
^^^ -IF- that's accurate, then it would mean that the Incipio mod is passing it's charge into the phone battery (received from induction wave) at the same time that the internal phone battery is receiving the induction wave from pad... So that internal battery is receiving a shiz-load of joose quickly...
again, pure speculation.... but it would make sense...
Hey guys,
I have recently purchased xiaomi mi 6 and this is my first quick charge phone so something got me worried. My battery charging speed seems to be too fast for me. Although I don't think temperatures are worrying however I'm conserned regarding long term effects.
I have xiaomi mi 6 6gb ram 128gb storage ceramic edition model.
These are pictures taken from battery app from playstore and image of my charger.
If anyone have some advise about this it would be great.
My greatest consern is that charging speed doesn't seem to diminish as charge is getting to 90% after it hits 90% it slows down dramatically. But from what I know it should change charging speed between 60 and 70 percent to little slower then from 0 to 60.
Is this damaging battery?
Screenshots below.
Thank you.
Totally fine. Its QC 3.0. Imagine this: QC4+ charges ~50-60% in under 15 minutes.
Oh such a releaf. Thank for replying.
Anyone got idea if this has any at all negative effect to battery?
No, higher battery voltage - slower charge, you would damage your battery in few weeks without this slow down.
Also avoid heavy load of phone when charging
ninokotur said:
Oh such a releaf. Thank for replying.
Anyone got idea if this has any at all negative effect to battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would they put a fast charger in the box if the phone couldn't handle it? Nah probably not. Maybe Apple would......
Should you worry if you use the stock charger or a certified QC 3.0 charger? Definitely not its fine.
Are you still worried?: use a non QC 3.0 charger like 1.5 amp.
I use my old Sony one and it works equally well.
I find a slower charger gives slightly longer SOT.
The fast charger is just useful if I need power quickly.
Thanks guys
Hello everybody.
I just want to share with you guys what I found out.
I've been using custom ROMs and custom kernels for LG V30, and I faced a lot of issues. The most common issue is overheating, especially on charging or using mobile data.
I use Anker's adapter that supports Quick Charge 3.0, and an Anker USB-C to USB-3.0 cable. I use Ampere app to see how the battery is charge.
On custom ROMs, the ampere number (mA) changes every few seconds, jumps up and down with big gap, and the phone gets very hot.
On stock ROM (US99820H) in my case, mA number is very stable. It increases or decreases slowly and doesn't jump up and down. On plugging in, min and max mA are equal. The phone is just a little bit hotter than before plugging in.
So I just wanted to share my own experience with you guys. If you want you phone to last long, use Stock ROMs, disable bloatwares and useless system apps.
I'm going to purchase the battery and change it myself for better battery life. I wanted to change to another phone but for now, this is the best phone for music.
Please discuss if you disagree with me or have a solution for custom ROMs.
minhntp said:
Hello everybody.
I just want to share with you guys what I found out.
I've been using custom ROMs and custom kernels for LG V30, and I faced a lot of issues. The most common issue is overheating, especially on charging or using mobile data.
I use Anker's adapter that supports Quick Charge 3.0, and an Anker USB-C to USB-3.0 cable. I use Ampere app to see how the battery is charge.
On custom ROMs, the ampere number (mA) changes every few seconds, jumps up and down with big gap, and the phone gets very hot.
On stock ROM (US99820H) in my case, mA number is very stable. It increases or decreases slowly and doesn't jump up and down. On plugging in, min and max mA are equal. The phone is just a little bit hotter than before plugging in.
So I just wanted to share my own experience with you guys. If you want you phone to last long, use Stock ROMs, disable bloatwares and useless system apps.
I'm going to purchase the battery and change it myself for better battery life. I wanted to change to another phone but for now, this is the best phone for music.
Please discuss if you disagree with me or have a solution for custom ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also felt the same...Though the charging speed on custom roms is higher...in terms of stability of current, Stock Rom is the best.
minhntp said:
Hello everybody.
I just want to share with you guys what I found out.
I've been using custom ROMs and custom kernels for LG V30, and I faced a lot of issues. The most common issue is overheating, especially on charging or using mobile data.
I use Anker's adapter that supports Quick Charge 3.0, and an Anker USB-C to USB-3.0 cable. I use Ampere app to see how the battery is charge.
On custom ROMs, the ampere number (mA) changes every few seconds, jumps up and down with big gap, and the phone gets very hot.
On stock ROM (US99820H) in my case, mA number is very stable. It increases or decreases slowly and doesn't jump up and down. On plugging in, min and max mA are equal. The phone is just a little bit hotter than before plugging in.
So I just wanted to share my own experience with you guys. If you want you phone to last long, use Stock ROMs, disable bloatwares and useless system apps.
I'm going to purchase the battery and change it myself for better battery life. I wanted to change to another phone but for now, this is the best phone for music.
Please discuss if you disagree with me or have a solution for custom ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In terms of stability, I have different results, when I charge using a custom rom the phone tends to stay cool, but when I used the stock rom the phone got a lot hotter then before charging.
Custom ROMs may not be utilizing QC properly. QC 2.0 has few discrete voltage/current steps, while QC 3.0 has many (200mA increments iirc) designed to strike a balance between charging speed and heat. Maybe it's getting stuck in QC 2.0 mode and the temperature feedback isn't working properly?
You could just use a non-fast-charging wireless charger, if you're only charging up at night. 5v/~1A is pretty much harmless, it's just on the slow side of things.
fyi, battery capacity (as tracked by the charging controller driver, I guess) is stored at sys/class/power_supply/bms/charge_full; it defaults to design capacity until a full charge cycle has been completed* and then I suppose is revised each time the driver tracks less energy has been stored after a complete charge. Cycle count, cell resistance and a couple other things are also stored here. I think all values are persistent until the battery is physically disconnected.
Might be worth doing a full discharge+charge (to 100%, then let it sit for a few hours to saturate) to see if your battery is worn enough to warrant pulling the phone apart. Accubattery does seem to be more or less accurate, so you charge while it's on you can get a real-time idea of how much has gone in.
* a full charge might be from 1% to 100%. It might be from 5% to 100%. Who knows! I've charged from 2% to 100% a couple times and not had cycle_count increase.
Also, if you do go shopping, beware of undersized batteries. I bought an "OE spec" battery a while ago that was obviously thinner and lighter than the original; it weighed some 12.5% less and only took a 3000mah charge, more or less lining up with the reduced weight. The seller was "tele*cell", and I very much doubt they're the only ones pulling this crap. Record the contents of power_supply/bms if they're important to you, too, as they zero out upon battery disconnect.
edit: hmm, thinking about it...bms = Battery Management System? (not this one specifically, of course)
Septfox said:
Also, if you do go shopping, beware of undersized batteries. I bought an "OE spec" battery a while ago that was obviously thinner and lighter than the original; it weighed some 12.5% less and only took a 3000mah charge, more or less lining up with the reduced weight. The seller was "tele*cell", and I very much doubt they're the only ones pulling this crap. Record the contents of power_supply/bms if they're important to you, too, as they zero out upon battery disconnect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is possible that you bought a smaller battery - but you should know that the capacity of Li** batteries increases within the first couple of cycles. Also usually the nominal capacity might be different from the real (typical) capacity. So you would need to meassure a.new original battery against your replacement battery (not take the value LG tells us for.granted)
daniu said:
It is possible that you bought a smaller battery - but you should know that the capacity of Li** batteries increases within the first couple of cycles. Also usually the nominal capacity might be different from the real (typical) capacity. So you would need to meassure a.new original battery against your replacement battery (not take the value LG tells us for.granted)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Li-po capacity hasn't really gone anywhere in a while, and I wouldn't expect cheap eBay batteries to be using the newest and best chemistry. It was definitely undersize/weight; I attached some pictures.
Because I wanted to be absolutely sure before I called the seller on it, I purposefully ran it four full cycles, then built up another two during normal use. The best capacity that the BMS ever rated it for was 2980mah, while Accubattery put in something like...3060mah once with subsequent charges in the 2900-3000 range.
While I get what you're saying, I find it unlikely that the BMS would set to the expected design capacity if they were using undersize batteries from the factory.
The reason being that at a guess, the battery "fuel gauge" is probably based on capacity_full, which = capacity_full_design until set. With a new phone that isn't charged to 100% (thus setting capacity_full), if using the phone down to 1% you'd risk either a) the phone suddenly shutting down at ~10% or b) overdischarge damage if the battery is actually less than the phone's design capacity.
Kind of a corner case though, I'll admit, since this would only be on the first run.
Last, I submit my own OEM battery for consideration: prior to taking it out, it had accumulated 537 cycles and had a recorded capacity of 2485mah. That's about what I'd expect from a 3300mah battery that was almost certainly used "normally" e.g. discharged daily, charged nightly and left on the tap at full charge for hours on end.
Like you said, though, the only way to know for sure would be testing a new OEM battery, and we've been fresh out of those for a year and a half now. Maybe someone could nab one from one of their newer models and test for science? I already have too many spare lipo cells laying around.
Septfox said:
Custom ROMs may not be utilizing QC properly. QC 2.0 has few discrete voltage/current steps, while QC 3.0 has many (200mA increments iirc) designed to strike a balance between charging speed and heat. Maybe it's getting stuck in QC 2.0 mode and the temperature feedback isn't working properly?
You could just use a non-fast-charging wireless charger, if you're only charging up at night. 5v/~1A is pretty much harmless, it's just on the slow side of things.
fyi, battery capacity (as tracked by the charging controller driver, I guess) is stored at sys/class/power_supply/bms/charge_full; it defaults to design capacity until a full charge cycle has been completed* and then I suppose is revised each time the driver tracks less energy has been stored after a complete charge. Cycle count, cell resistance and a couple other things are also stored here. I think all values are persistent until the battery is physically disconnected.
Might be worth doing a full discharge+charge (to 100%, then let it sit for a few hours to saturate) to see if your battery is worn enough to warrant pulling the phone apart. Accubattery does seem to be more or less accurate, so you charge while it's on you can get a real-time idea of how much has gone in.
* a full charge might be from 1% to 100%. It might be from 5% to 100%. Who knows! I've charged from 2% to 100% a couple times and not had cycle_count increase.
Also, if you do go shopping, beware of undersized batteries. I bought an "OE spec" battery a while ago that was obviously thinner and lighter than the original; it weighed some 12.5% less and only took a 3000mah charge, more or less lining up with the reduced weight. The seller was "tele*cell", and I very much doubt they're the only ones pulling this crap. Record the contents of power_supply/bms if they're important to you, too, as they zero out upon battery disconnect.
edit: hmm, thinking about it...bms = Battery Management System? (not this one specifically, of course)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have sleep problem after changing the battery? After changing the battery, my phone doesn't go to sleep when the screen is off, so the battery just keeps draining. I'm using stock ROM. I don't know if this is a software of hardware issue.
minhntp said:
Do you have sleep problem after changing the battery? After changing the battery, my phone doesn't go to sleep when the screen is off, so the battery just keeps draining. I'm using stock ROM. I don't know if this is a software of hardware issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing notable that happened was the battery stats getting wiped. Otherwise the phone behaved normally.
Try getting BetterBatteryStats, second post has the newest apk attached (2.3 iirc).
Start it up to get it established, Set Custom Ref. from the menu, shut the screen off for...ehh...20min.
Turn it back on, select Custom in the left drop-down menu and Current in the right drop-down menu.
Check Kernel Wakelocks and Partial Wakelocks using the top drop-down menu to see if anything sticks out.
Septfox said:
Li-po capacity hasn't really gone anywhere in a while, and I wouldn't expect cheap eBay batteries to be using the newest and best chemistry. It was definitely undersize/weight; I attached some pictures.
Because I wanted to be absolutely sure before I called the seller on it, I purposefully ran it four full cycles, then built up another two during normal use. The best capacity that the BMS ever rated it for was 2980mah, while Accubattery put in something like...3060mah once with subsequent charges in the 2900-3000 range.
While I get what you're saying, I find it unlikely that the BMS would set to the expected design capacity if they were using undersize batteries from the factory.
The reason being that at a guess, the battery "fuel gauge" is probably based on capacity_full, which = capacity_full_design until set. With a new phone that isn't charged to 100% (thus setting capacity_full), if using the phone down to 1% you'd risk either a) the phone suddenly shutting down at ~10% or b) overdischarge damage if the battery is actually less than the phone's design capacity.
Kind of a corner case though, I'll admit, since this would only be on the first run.
Last, I submit my own OEM battery for consideration: prior to taking it out, it had accumulated 537 cycles and had a recorded capacity of 2485mah. That's about what I'd expect from a 3300mah battery that was almost certainly used "normally" e.g. discharged daily, charged nightly and left on the tap at full charge for hours on end.
Like you said, though, the only way to know for sure would be testing a new OEM battery, and we've been fresh out of those for a year and a half now. Maybe someone could nab one from one of their newer models and test for science? I already have too many spare lipo cells laying around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is the full capacity when you put those 2 battery in?
I just bought a battery. This new one has 6 symbols each line (like the one you bought) and 2 lines of manufactured date. The old (original) one has 5 symbols each line and also 2 lines of manufatured date.
When I check "charge_full" after full charging, it shows 3312000 for the original battery and 3230000 for the new one, while the "charge_full_design" being 3312000 for both battery.
minhntp said:
What is the full capacity when you put those 2 battery in?
I just bought a battery. This new one has 6 symbols each line (like the one you bought) and 2 lines of manufactured date. The old (original) one has 5 symbols each line and also 2 lines of manufatured date.
When I check "charge_full" after full charging, it shows 3312000 for the original battery and 3230000 for the new one, while the "charge_full_design" being 3312000 for both battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All three batteries I've had showed the same 3312000 charge_full_design. But I'm not sure if this is relevant to us, aside from as a reference to compare to.
Out of curiosity and so I don't purposely give outright bad information, I went and looked at the kernel (up on github courtesy of lunar-kernels).
3300mah design capacity is set when the kernel is built (BLT34 battery profile, which is grabbed by the power manager).
I'm not sure where the number "3312000" specifically is coming from. I can't read the source for the BMS well enough to tell why it's coming up with that number, aside from it's a calculated result based on more than just the design capacity.
Based on the above and other behavior, I don't think any permanent information is stored with or retrieved from the battery itself; design parameters are set in the BLT34 profile and then the BMS amends certain things as it takes measurements. It assumes that whatever attached battery is actually 3300/3312mah until proven otherwise (calibrated with sufficient cycling).
Said measurements are stored ~somewhere~ outside of the ROM, recovery and download mode - mine persisted through the LAFsploit process and TWRP on both partitions - and cleared when power is lost. Maybe they're stored in RAM somewhere? Maybe the BMS notices the discontinuity in power and assumes a battery change, resetting everything? I'll try making sense of the kernel source to see...
The labeling difference is curious, and something I hadn't really given thought to. The newer ones have NOM and NYCE marks, which are Mexican safety approval things. It's interesting that the originals don't have them; maybe because LG doesn't make phones for the Mexican market and thus saw no need? I doubt these third-party manufacturers have gone out of their way to actually obtain said approval...probably just stuck them there to satisfy customs.
I bought a battery from another seller and installed it this weekend; it uses the 12-symbol style as well, has date+date code like the original (dated a rather shiny 2019.09.08!), and weighs the expected 48g/has an OE-style "stepped" back making it thicker.
Seems to charge fully and otherwise work as expected. charge_full still = charge_full_design, I'm not sure if this is because the BMS has determined that it's an OEM-capacity battery, or it hasn't cycled sufficiently to update. Gonna keep an eye on it. Pictures attached.
Edit: battery listing on ebay. Note if anyone else buys it: the suction cup that came with mine was 100% useless. Plan accordingly.
-
A further note on the smaller battery I bought: it did perform admirably. It had no issues when using the phone as a power supply (~2.5A sustained output), right down to where I stopped it at 5%, which is rather abusive for cells in this form-factor. It was just...well...smaller. It certainly wasn't a bad battery at all, it was just misrepresented. Lighter/slightly-smaller batteries would make great travel batteries, if the V30 were swap-friendly...
-
@Septfox
I hope you bought a good one.
The battery I bought lasts long, but also takes long to charge (about 2 hours). The phone shows fast-charging but when I check battery log in Hidden menu, it shows only Quick charge 2.0.
I found a way to reset the battery information, hopefully sellers don't use this to reset the cycle count.
There's a thread on xda that shows a method to reset battery information on HTC phones. That is holding down 2 volume buttons + power button (volume down + power for LG V30) in 2 minutes while the phone is being charged, let the phone restart as many times it takes in 2 minutes. And then charge the phone to full.
I did that and when I check in Hidden menu, the battery information was resetted to 3312000 full capacity and 0 cycle count.
minhntp said:
@Septfox
The battery I bought lasts long, but also takes long to charge (about 2 hours). The phone shows fast-charging but when I check battery log in Hidden menu, it shows only Quick charge 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QC 3.0 wouldn't outright increase the speed any; it exists to help reduce heat and provide more consistent charging.
If it makes you feel any better, mine is also getting stuck on QC 2.0. Judging by the way the Parallel Charging status flickers on and off as I move the cable and put pressure on the connector, I could probably stand to get a new charging port...
This is why wireless charging is a good idea. But now that I think about it, replacement boards are cheap on ebay ($5), so replacing it each time the battery is changed might be a good bit of cheap maintenance to do :good:
Have you tried a different cable and/or charger to see if your charging improves? Maybe you need a new port, too.
minhntp said:
I found a way to reset the battery information, hopefully sellers don't use this to reset the cycle count.
There's a thread on xda that shows a method to reset battery information on HTC phones. That is holding down 2 volume buttons + power button (volume down + power for LG V30) in 2 minutes while the phone is being charged, let the phone restart as many times it takes in 2 minutes. And then charge the phone to full.
I did that and when I check in Hidden menu, the battery information was resetted to 3312000 full capacity and 0 cycle count.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find this slightly alarming, actually...
The normal button combination to hard-reset the phone is power+vol down. This might just be what's happening, and by making the phone do it repeatedly, the firmware might be interpreting it as a bootloop condition caused by something in memory and completely disconnecting power in an attempt to mitigate it (clearing the battery stats in the process). Probably harmless though.
Dunno that a seller would bother trying it, though. What do they get out of it, other than a seemingly-new battery with less capacity than it should have? It would just recalibrate when charged and show the real capacity in the hidden menu, and the game would be up :v
Septfox said:
QC 3.0 wouldn't outright increase the speed any; it exists to help reduce heat and provide more consistent charging.
If it makes you feel any better, mine is also getting stuck on QC 2.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All V30 always show QuickCharge 2.0 in Nougat as well as Oreo. Not sure about Pie.
Speculation was it was a script error, that it was really 3.0 -- but falsely shows 2.0.
Can't remember if it was ever proven one way or the other.
I do remember people say it now charges slower on Pie. Again speculative because LG knows batteries are older?
I'm still on rooted Oreo, so I don't care.
ChazzMatt said:
I do remember people say it now charges slower on Pie. Again speculative because LG knows batteries are older?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't notice my phone charging any different. Even when using wired.
Sent from my LG-H932 using XDA Labs
ChazzMatt said:
All V30 always show QuickCharge 2.0 in Nougat as well as Oreo. Not sure about Pie.
Speculation was it was a script error, that it was really 3.0 -- but falsely shows 2.0.
Can't remember if it was ever proven one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read "the display may not be correct, so you should totally use this as an excuse to get a newer charger-doctor that supports QC".
...and you're completely right, I'm gonna go do that :v
ChazzMatt said:
I do remember people say it now charges slower on Pie. Again speculative because LG knows batteries are older?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or to mitigate further aging by reducing internal heat. I also remember seeing somewhere that it was limited to 12w or 13w, now that you mention it, though that might have been for 15w wireless which has a reputation for slow-cooking the battery (in any phone, not just the V30).
After 2 days of trial and error, it's thermal throttling due to battery temp.
It hits 96.20f on the battery and goes from 2.8mah at 15w to 8-900mah at 6w
Full charge speed comes back as soon as it's under 94f
This is something I never dealt with with my OnePlus phones....
6000mah always, no issues 40 minutes to full..
With my testing, I've found that,
While charging
Power saving mode with CPU throttle, screen rate throttle, Bluetooth off doesn't help keep it from throttling...
Charging, I can play a YouTube video slid to the side off the screen and browse the internet and after a good 10 minutes or so it's bouncing in and out of fast charging
Playing a game while charging get me around 400mah charging lol
Takes 10 minutes for a single percent when gaming when it gets up in temps
I'm a business owner and a heavy user when I'm using it.
I atleast now understand how it works and what the limits are.
Brightness is half way and on auto.
I would be fine with it getting a bit warmer to keep the fast charging going for sure...
Now I set it in front of the AC if I need some quick charging lol
Slight edit.. it even throttles charging when closed and not being used...
You telling me this phone I paid almost 2 grand for throttles like a baby after a little light use? I noticed today that Enhanced processing has been removed and the option to change the screens resolution has also been removed. I swear my note 20 ultra still kicks this phones butt
It's give or take, it doesn't like charging,
I was playing genshin impact when it got warm and dead lol, but when charging it's straddling the throttle on and off if your using it for sure, download battery charging monitor pro and watch for yourself
She games well I love it, I'm sure I'll be able to manage it, but just coming from a one plus it's mehh
Samsung has limited the charging speed while its in use since their old models blasted some time ago left and right. That is the reason samsung no longer gives faster charging speeds like other brands. We are stuck with 25w charging plus slow charging while using the mobile
It only hits full speed when the screen is off
eswar539 said:
Samsung has limited the charging speed shile its in use since their old models blasted some time ago left and right. That is the reason samsung no longer gives faster charging speeds like other brands. We are stuck with 25w charging plus slow charging while using the mobile
It only hits full speed when the screen is off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incorrect, I can take a screen recording. If the batter stays below 96f it won't throttle.
Like I said my fix is to put the phone in front of my ac for a minute flat for like 15 minutes of play while charging at full speed.
It has nothing to do with the screen being awake.. it's all on the battery temp.
I tested it by putting my phone in front of the AC when warmed up and as soon as it drops below 94 it's back to full speed.
Yes it's Samsung, but they will learn someday when other phone companies start pushing into the US like OnePlus has
Smittyzz said:
Incorrect, I can take a screen recording. If the batter stays below 96f it won't throttle.
Like I said my fix is to put the phone in front of my ac for a minute flat for like 15 minutes of play while charging at full speed.
It has nothing to do with the screen being awake.. it's all on the battery temp.
I tested it by putting my phone in front of the AC when warmed up and as soon as it drops below 94 it's back to full speed.
Yes it's Samsung, but they will learn someday when other phone companies start pushing into the US like OnePlus has
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pushing a battery thats charging full power is asking for a fire to happen. This is EXACTLY why Samsung and other manufacturers put these safety measures into play. Users think they know better when they don't and create safety hazards. Like dude please learn basics about batteries before you start a fire.
xlylegaman said:
pushing a battery thats charging full power is asking for a fire to happen. This is EXACTLY why Samsung and other manufacturers put these safety measures into play. Users think they know better when they don't and create safety hazards. Like dude please learn basics about batteries before you start a fire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For starters, I came from a one plus with 2x the charging speeds. What makes them so special to have it down?
And on top of that, I deal with lithium polymer batteries on a daily basis. Owning rc cars I've handled 100s of those "house burning down" batteries.
The phone doesn't even get warm.
I'm sorry your just used to following Samsung and what they say is the fastest standard for something lol
They gotta lack somewhere
I understood those limitations are for battery life. But you can be unhappy about it.
That's understandable and personally I don't care if the charging speed is not blazingly fast.
I remember my Note 7 well.